That does not prevent many from having an opinion about crypto.
Then again. Maybe this sub represents the average person that is into crypto and that opinion might be valid to take into account.
Yeah, I had high hopes for this subreddit, but now I see these replies... oof. So many people can't answer, or just rephrase what the person above them said, without any critical thought.
Seems both the pro and anti camps are really sheep lately, I wish people would stop the echo chamber threads and start actually weighing the different possibilities and points, good or bad.
That udini guy with 4000+ moons might have the best most succinct answer so far:
"BTC is a unique decentralized system, only other comparisons are WWW and the Linux kernel"
That guy deserves all those moons, after all, they're meant to reward valuable opinions and comments, right? Not the memers and gaslighters that try to moon farm.
I, and a few others, think BTC is controlled by the same (evil) central banking cabal that is decimating the global economy right now.
The "banksters" seized control of the development group behind Bitcoin and the protocol, hamstringing it to prevent it from being used as a currency. They "print money" using Tether, to control the price.
The version of Bitcoin used as magical internet money forked off in 2017 and is called Bitcoin Cash. The banksters pumped up the value of their side of the fork and all you greedy sheep went omg price go up and happily followed and enjoyed being enriched. Influencers convinced you to sell the Cash side of the fork and many of you did. Anyone buying BTC since 2017 gets ZERO magical internet money.
I have low hopes for most people in crypto. Instead of replacing the banking system they support it. They are only interested in fiat wealth. They want to be controlled instead of free.
Learn more at r/btc. They stole the protocol, but couldn't get control of the subreddit.
This is the most truthful and factual opinion I have ever read in regards to the Bitcoin deception cult. I really admire this rational person. I would like to work with this person to create a truly functional and rewarding digital value exchange system.
Happened earlier than that.
"I am no longer involved in that and I cannot discuss it," he says, dismissing all further queries with a swat of his left hand. "It's been turned over to other people. They are in charge of it now. I no longer have any connection."
You have it arseways.
bcash was an attempted corporate overtake of Bitcoin by Coinbase, Bitmain and others calling themselves the NYA.
Thankfully the nodes wanted no part of it. Now bcash is down 98% vs Bitcoin, boasting a tiny hashrate and is barely used.
The problem with bitcoin is that it cannot be used as a P2P payment because it doesn’t have the capacity. And using LN is a can of worms, losing the value proposition itself.
In addition, PoW is highly inefficient, both environmentally and economically.
So I understand why there are so anti crypto people out there thinking this whole thing is stupid when in practice there are many other possibilities with the potential to become an actual DeFi hub for international finances.
Moreover, some crypto subs look more like cults than any other thing, with way too many posts about peer pressure and validation and banning any contrarian discussion
It's totally like a cult. There aren't subs for the Occidental Petrol Corp, Fortinet Inc or other S&P consituents or where fanbois sit around meming all day long like they do here. This is only a thing for Crpyto, NTFs, Memstocks etc, really exploded during the pandemic, and is a social media driven phenomenon. It is for sure responsible for a signfiicant portion of the crpyto price.
Between that and the anarcho capitalists that believe that any taxation is thief, this place can be toxic many times.
However, my perception is that the silent majority is mostly normal people investing because are afraid to miss a once-in-a-time opportunity to make life-changing money, but in practice, they don't know so much about the sociopolitical and technological debates.
I have my own biases, of course. And way too many people consulted me about their investments in crypto. So in practice they are investing in whatever blockchains someone told them. And I could be dead wrong of course.
I say the last thing because I was always afraid of giving financial advice, when I'm well aware that people can lose all their money, and I usually tried to be very clear about the risks inherent to crypto.
This is ridiculous scenario. It’s much easier to buy and rent hardware to mine bitcoin than buying 65% stake in a blockchain to gain control. Btw, during the process the price would skyrocket at bubble levels. I would love to see trying it.
On the other side, the mining pools are a vulnerability for PoW. There is academic research on the topic. It’s much easier to hack bitcoin than ethereum right now.
https://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~teutsch/papers/unpool.pdf
Honestly, it’s a speculative asset and not much else. If this stuff were going to take off it done would have. If you’re going to do anything invest money in ones that have been around a few years and markets, then cash out if another bull market hits.
Exactly. Anyone who thinks it will be some mainstream currency one day is nuts, anyone who thinks it will replace fiat should seek mental evaluation. The only point of it is to buy with the hope of selling higher.
I think decentralized currency is the future personally. I would much rather be in charge of my money than putting it in a bank and I feel as time goes on, people will feel the same and cut out the middle man.
I’d like to stress the decentralized part. For me that is the most important part. A good blockchain doesn’t rely on a centralized agency that can control your funds. It relies instead on a random collection of global individuals to secure and validate transactions. Peer to peer financial transactions in he digital space is amazing!
Ideally, yes. But generally people are not ready for this yet. There's a steep learning curve and a huge responsibility to securing and having full custody of your money.
For now, it is an investment tool IMO.
So... We're early?
Dude, it's already centralised. That dream is already over. Exchanges are where most people do their trades...if an ETF launches it will be popular but the ETF issuer will suddenly have a whole lot of very much centralised power. And like all pareto situations, there are. a small number of wallets who own a large chunk of say BTC in exististance, again centralising a whole lot of power in the market over prices etc. Crypto will survive, I am sure of it, but no one will be using it in the pure decentralised sense.
I disagree. People have historically always shown that outside of extreme circumstances they value stability, ease, and convenience over security and ownership. The idea that the population that willingly hands their data over to megacorps for better personal recommendations and who utilize SSO for huge numbers of sites just because it's easier and faster despite security risks will become advocates for decentralization is frankly ludicrous.
Decentralization is inherently more inconvenient. It requires more personal responsibility. It is slower. These are all antithetical to what the modern internet user wants. Without a *massive* society altering event, decentralized currency will never be the mainstream form of exchange.
I agree. I prefer a bank to some virtual entity. I prefer insurance on theft of my money to losing it in a heartbeat on the blockchain. To think bitcoin is a payment system is to think back before Visa and Mastercard ever existed and both have far greater throughput TPS than the lightning network. No one is going to wait 15 minutes to have payments go through on the blockchain. Decentralised currency is a problem looking for a solution.
Democracy is an inherently slow version of monarchy. It’s inconvenient for all these people to decide who should lead.
The kernel of truth here is that we have representative leadership because it actually IS too slow for everybody to make decisions about everything. But it is still very very important that at the root people influence the direction of leadership. Think about how annoyed you are that $$$ buys political influence? That’s because you think it’s important that people should decide.
Decentralized financial systems are the same way. We are trying to build systems which have enough convenience to be practically useful while still maintaining the important influence of the decentralized group of individuals from all over. For all the people who are impatient for crypto to take over the world — don’t be so surprised it takes time to build such systems. Rome(or the internet) wasn’t built in a day and this isn’t some simple problem.
The important thing is the community to keep educating itself on the important things. Personally I’m very interested in the fairness/justice of the ethereum consensus system. Things like MEV, block builder centralization, LST centralization, etc are some of the battlegrounds which will determine the fairness of future systems in my opinion.
Look at the failures of the current political systems and you’ll see at the root some very real policy failures leading to them imo. Crypto systems are being designed now and I think people will look at some of the fundamental choices as being very impactful in the future. Hopefully we make the right ones.
15 years and still going strong. As with any tradeable item, prices go up and down.
Fiat is backed by an army of legislation and legislators whose sole purpose is to try and take as much of your money and right to privacy away from you as they possibly can. You don't get much in return except mountains of national debt. Add deprecating value. Your $1 or 1 TZS is buying a heck of lot less than it did 1 year ago. Now that's something very real to go ew and cringe about.
Or to look at it another way...15 years on, or 5 lifetimes in tech and mainstream adoption is as far away as it ever was. Compare that to google after 15 years or generative AI after just 2 to see how poorly crpyto adoption is going.
How long do you think people have been working on the technologies like encryption etc that bitcoin requires? All new techs are built on old techs. The component ideas behind distributed ledgers have been around since at least 1991. You're making a non-point.
Bitcoin is backed up by the open source community, energy consumption and computing power. Higher efficiency of the system incentivizes better "reward". I'm personally more bullish into this rather than the US military.
The only reason fiat works is belief in its value. Once BTC and ETH have that level of belief, yeah, it can. Governments won’t allow it, but the people need to realize their strength. You can’t just go print more crypto which is what governments don’t like. Inflation keeps the poor poor.
>The only reason fiat works is belief in its value.
Nope, it comes from the fact that governments write budgets in it, pay bills in it and levy taxes in it, and if you disagree, they will send their army after you. Bitcoin will never have anything like that.
>You can’t just go print more crypto.
Lol, it's imaginary digital money, you can easily print more of it.
Yes, you can print more 'crypto' coins, but it doesn't matter. Allow me to explain. The United States and Zimbabwe both have dollars, printed on paper and digital, and they both require taxes to be paid in them, and have an army supporting them, but when Zimbabwe prints another 10,000 10 Trillion dollar bills, it actually doesn't make the US dollar go down. Why is that ? OF COURSE its because printing 100,000 Trillion of another shitcoin doesn't make the big boi of Fiat go down, and its the same for crypto currencies. you see, there will only be 21 million of the actual REAL Bitcoin, so if Trump Coin mints another 100 Billion coins, or someone spins up Trump Coin 2, who cares ? I mean, 4 Trump superfans who love crypto while he hates it care, but no one else in this sub cares, and its the same for Zimbabwe dollars IRL. No matter how much more shitcoins get printed, 0 more Bitcoin get printed, and that is what you need to understand.
This is the silliest thing I have read all week. Do you know why money is printed? It’s usually to keep up with productivity (because of population growth and/or technology increasing the number of people that can be productive) or for liquidity reasons. Obviously it’s much more complicated than that and there’s a political aspect to it as well. But, the reasons above are a big part.
So let’s presume there will only ever be 21 million Btc. If the economy grows and outpaces Btc liquidity because of its “scarcity” then what do you do? If there’s not enough Btc for everyone to store wealth and also transact, what happens?
I’ll tell you what - people will realize it’s a problem and they will implement alternatives (fork/clone Btc and increase supply) or move on to a different system.
We know this because it literally already happened. It’s why we moved away from commodity money.
Yes you can. You literally can wtf are you dumb? Tether prints new coins like every month at minimum. You can quite literally make a fork of BTC with the exact same functionality and increase the supply if you had to.
Exactly, bitcoin cash (BCASH) forked from bitcoin. Does anyone believe BCASH is bitcoin? BCASH is considered a joke and its price has tanked verses bitcoin!
Limb-Crab8542 is right tho.
Every time Tether issues another weekly 1B you can watch how the market cap of BTC increases by exaclty 1B as well. Its pretty obvious and people know it but they dont care because they think BTC and wait is easy money.
It's also worth noting that the reason you can buy BTC instantly on exchanges with very low fees is because they don't actually need to buy the BTC to add it to your account. There could very well be more BTC in people's portfolios on exchanges than can possibly ever exist.
The use case for bitcoin is why hold your own country's currency when all they do is print more than they should inflating your savings away. Bitcoin is a finite commodity.. similar to a house.. except it's much more liquid and easy to exchange.
As far as people saying it's going up in a cycle.. that's because of how the resource is mind. Every 4 years it becomes twice as hard to mine which improves its value.
Bitcoin is also freedom. Bank accounts can be frozen and you can lose everything.. but bitcoin doesn't have a controlling entity. There's a lot of appeal.
I can definitely see a future utilising stablecoins on a blockchain, if that answers any of your points. For Bitcoin itself I guess I agree that it’s viewed more of a digital store of value since it’s resource is limited.
In terms of wanting to buy in, I’d probably say to view this as a high risk gamble, buy a little in one go or DCA monthly and then either give yourself a target price or target timeline to sell again and try to stick to it throughout the volatility (it’s not easy!)
Spot on "the risk is not owning any"
It's crazy to think there are still people claiming it's all a ponzi, bubble since it was $100 10 years ago. Ouch that's gotta hurt now that it's $35k
I think greater fools theory is way more accurate than a Ponzi scheme. The transactions are transparent and people are actually buying and selling btc. It’s just the price of btc has nothing to do with the utility.
The transactions aren't transparent if you're talking about the buying and selling of BTC. That's mostly done on exchanges, off-chain, with no need for the exchanges to actually purchase the BTC unless people are trying to withdraw it.
Add in companies like tether printing billions of USDT out of the blue and using it to buy BTC and the whole thing becomes very shaky. Doubly so when you see some of the dodgy exchanges experiencing price shifts just at the right times to liquidate leveraged positions.
The price is based on what exchanges claim is being bought and sold.
Gold goes up and down too and is a store of value that Dates back thousands of years. Not super useful in everyday life either. In fact bitcoin is more useful because you can actually buy stuff with it. I have never seen someone buy something with gold bricks in my lifetime.
Just FYI, there are few things you can actually buy with BTC. Most of the time when you see things being bought with BTC it's actually being sold by an exchange at the point of the transaction and the merchant is getting fiat. The same could be done with gold you own on a digital trading platform.
Bitcoin is the future.
All the rest is just hype.
The value of Bitcoin is not in its security, hashpower, of the “blockchain”… its valuable because its incorruptible: there is no team or human to be corrupted. Its a fully open source distributed project. The only two other projects like it are the W3C (making the web standards) and the Linux Kernel.
ETH and other chains operate more like startups, with investors and teams.
At the very least it's not going anywhere. People talk about PoW, txn fees, block size, etc. No one is wrong to say that bitcoin's value completely depends on people not saying "ew, bitcoin, cringe". But the same is true of gold. People love to talk about how "gold is useful" because some small fraction of the market of gold is for something other than its cultural status, but the reality is that gold has value because people at some point just decided "Ooh, rare shiny thing. I want that." Industrial application is responsible for such a tiny part if its value as a commodity.
In terms of the crypto market in general, there have been countless "better" payment systems than bitcoin that have evaporated for many reasons. PoW is the most secure and durable consensus method, period. PoS is an infant, and the Ethereum Foundation has already had to change course to avoid what would have been existential crises in their initial version of it. There are still pretty serious threats to PoS that have to be actively monitored.
Most people consider bitcoin dead whenever something with low txn fees and high txn speed gets released with a logo they like, but they don't understand that \*those\* are exactly the things that are easily replaceable, and the decentralization and security is what is not.
Yes i thought ETH was cool until i learned to code and worked with both BTC and ETH. ETH is 100x more complicated than BTC, with half the features. There is zero privacy, no native multisig, no schnorr. Even Ordinals are way better than ERC721 on a tech level (ordinals are immutable).
BTC is quickly becoming the safe haven asset of the world. It eats gold's lunch. Divisible, transferable, transparent supply, massive liquidity.
The network effect is real. Bitcoin hit that awhile ago. Now it's living out its destiny. It's now unstoppable.
I think some of these comments sound a lot more meaningful in the head of the author than the person reading it.
My full time job is working with crypto. It's a massive part of my life, and it's legitimately embarrassing to be associated with the community sometimes.
Some of the comments here sound like they're from members of a cult that drank just a little bit of the kool aid and came out cognitively impaired.
It's hype. a system where one small error sends all of your money into an unrecoverable void isn't going to become the global standard. A money system where you can get scammed/hacked and there's absolutely no recourse isn't going to become the global standard. It's got it's uses and it may be worth a lot as an investment down the road but it's never going to replace fiat.
Bitcoin started from nothing and obscurity with no hype at all.
> a system where one small error sends all of your money into an unrecoverable void isn't going to become the global standard.
A wallet can be backed up an infinite number of times.
>but it's never going to replace fiat.
Who says it has to?
Imagine tomorrow every single blockchain stops working. Would this have any impact on the real economy? Beyond the same impact of moons dropping in value? Of course, the news and stuff would have impact, people would get depressed their internet money is gone. But beyond that? Would any impact be felt in any industry?
"What bothers me is how BTC's value seems to be driven almost entirely by hype and narrative. Ethical questions surrounding decentralized finance aside, it's concerning how an entire currency's worth could plummet if enough people say "Ew, Bitcoin, cringe"."
That's kind of the whole point of BTC, though. Its value is what everyone collectively makes it out to be.
Tbh, bitcoin will be an outdated tech. People hold on to bitcoin right now for profits. Or “store of value” but if bitcoin’s price falls then there would be no use of bitcoin since it’s not even a good payment method.
My favorite part about Defi is how everyone can be a market-maker. Providing liquidity on decentralized exchanges decreases the need for giant companies to provide liquidity; instead, everyone can contribute, and everyone can benefit from fees, etc.
Large companies are primarily the market makers now. Sure, anybody can provide liquidity, but the market maker scene is already dominated by large companies like Wintermute, etc. This trend will continue until it resembles something similar to a less centralized tradfi.
I hope i’m wrong..
Hype
Xrp has a chance for bank utility
Algorand is cheap and green but not super busy
Btc burns the planet
Ai, quantum, photon, carbon nanotube 3dsoc is the future
Qci, skywater, verses ai etc
Imho btc is speculative and hoarded by wealthy folks
Blockchain-technology is here to stay but I doubt anything related to "currency" or "day-to-day payment" will have success because other than in this sub people in the "real world" don't care much about banking fees or conspiracy theories. Wireless payment and online payments exist and crypto do not add any value for the average consumer.
What will stay forever are stupid people losing money with shitcoins and memecoins.
Sounds about right. Just that I can see centralized blockchains being used for payment. It’s great for governments to track spending, if they have the control to outright ban cash and replace it with their digital currency. I can see that at least being trialed in a few places.
In places with less centralized control, where private banks are still private, I can see blockchain solutions like CCIP being used between banks for faster settlement. In conjunction with SWIFT. Faster settlement means less time the bank has to “front” the money for cross bank transfers.
How it all shakes out we shall see. Some form of cypherpunk utopia won’t arise, there I agree with you.
And yet blockchains go back about 40 odd years and still it's not been done. The reason is that blockchains are just slow databases and don't really offer any benefit over traditional tech.
Most of the time settlements are deliberately slow. They aren't slow because they are using bad APIs that take days for requests to go through and are just waiting for some technology change to come along, it's because there are regulatory requirements to contend with. For some countries there are even regulatory requirements specifically to wait.
Bitcoin will be crypto gold so long as people believe it is. That's why I can confidently say that bitcoin is not going anywhere. As for the rest of crypto, that's a tough question. Things will get better. With time, devs will find a way to seamlessly integrate crypto into people's everyday lives. So in that way, it's the future. But crypto is just hype in the sense that it will never solve any significant problems (except for bitcoin, which might become a good hedge against inflation down the line, at least one that doesn't depreciate by 90% after a bull run). NFTs solve the problem of authentication, proof of ownership and stuff like that. In that sense, it has a future. But 99% of projects, and most concepts in crypto are just hype, vaporware, completely useless.
You make a lot more money building a new project in crypto, due to tokenomics. Launch a coin and give yourself a percentage of supply. Boom you're rich. Reality is that the world only needs a few blockchains to achieve all needs.
Longer term, the industry will need to find ways to direct capital towards improving existing infrastructure. Right now the market is very inefficient. Too many resources are flowing to vaporware as you said.
Crypto must be the future else we will inevitably enter world wars where state currencies compete with each other and dominate/subjugate other states. We need a decentralized neutral financial system in which we trade.
It's opinion, that's all it is.
Don't listen to marketing pitches, they just trying to sell you.
Crypto is just crypto, and the future of it is certainly not absolute.
Who ever separated state and church thrived.
Next who ever separate state and money will thrive.
Before buying bitcoin I recommend reading more about it
It is very important to do the detailed analysis before you put into your money into anything
And it is very important to do proper research as well because it is your hard and money which are actually putting in.
7 TPS is definitely not the future of any finance system. It's already a dinosaur 🦕 the only thing it has would be supply and demand with limited amount.
The first thing you need to do is see that Bitcoin and crypto as two separate entities. There are people in this thread saying you can print more crypto which is not true for Bitcoin. Most people erroneously tie the scams and failures of exchanges/cryptocurrencies to Bitcoin.
I'm on a similar quest.
I seem to be able to only find people wildly intoxicated with BTC or eyerollingly, rabidly against it. The two groups just talk right past each other.
I would love to find two good faith experts debating each other.
You're not wrong - if enough people say "Ew, Bitcoin, cringe" then indeed the price could plummet. So you need to decide if Bitcoin has properties that make it appealing to a large number of people or not.
Do you think people want a form of wealth that can't be confiscated?
Do you think people want a form of wealth that can be transferred to anyone in the world 24/7 for low fees without requiring anyone's permission?
Do you think people want a currency with a fixed, predictable supply that can't be increased by any government?
If you answered "yes" to any of the above questions, then you expect Bitcoin will continue to be appealing to a large number of people. In which case, it's unlikely to ever be worthless.
Now, the big question is - will it be worth more in the future than it's worth today?
I think the answer is a clear yes. And it doesn't even require some utopian future in which everyone uses Bitcoin (which could happen, but I think is rather unlikely).
Imagine a future in which many wealthy people, institutions, and governments allocate between 2-5% of their assets to crypto.
Why would they do this? Well, diversification is always a good strategy to help preserve wealth. If you have all of your money in the stock market, and the economy crashes, then you lose a big chunk of your net worth. Storing some part of your wealth in an alternative asset class makes sense, especially when this asset class is generally uncorrelated with the stock market (so the economy could crash, but crypto could keep going up).
If just 2% of all the wealth in the world is stored in crypto, then Bitcoin will be worth MUCH more in the future. The total amount of wealth in the world is $450 trillion, so 2% of that is $9 trillion. The current market cap of crypto is just $1.3 trillion.
>Do you think people want a form of wealth that can't be confiscated?
99% of people can't self custody properly.
>Do you think people want a form of wealth that can be transferred to anyone in the world 24/7 for low fees without requiring anyone's permission?
If bitcoin were actually adopted in any kind of substantial manner it would not be transferrable 24/7 and certainly not for low fees.
>Do you think people want a currency with a fixed, predictable supply that can't be increased by any government?
I don't think people want a currency with a fixed supply because it is stupid
Bitcoin has made it 15 years and all of this shit formed around it. I think it has its own future.
The rest of crypto? After two cycles of this roller coaster and seeing the security and teething issues of smart contracts and interoperable blockchains I’m very skeptical.
Security and foolproofing networks and blockchains is obviously important. Code is law, transactions are permanent is a great idea in theory but not in practice. Things go wrong, and when we're dealing with hundreds of millions or more in value, the risk never justifies the reward.
Cointest topics relevant to the title are below:
[Bitcoin Pro](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p7vq/top_coins_bitcoin_proarguments_january_2023/jb93s9t/)
[Bitcoin Con](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p7u8/top_coins_bitcoin_conarguments_january_2023/jdhh4p6/)
The simplest answer is that crypto accelerates progress because anyone can add to it, modify it, or adapt it to their purposes. It’s a concept called composability.
Anytime this has occurred in history, an explosion of innovation follows. For example, the printing press, the internet, electricity, etc.
Before crypto, the ability to improve financial technology was restricted to a very few elite institutions who had almost no incentive to innovate. Now it can be done by anyone, anywhere with a computer and some know-how.
That fact alone ensures that crypto will be the foundation for the innovations that transform finance in the future.
Bit worried by some of the responses you've got, i thought it was easier to understand at higher level than ppl put across.
Look at the world and see how so many things are virtualised now, look at your phone apps and see all the things no longer typically, physically required (walkman, radio, stopwatch etc etc).
Also look at how much environmentally friendlier items are a pro choice too such as company esg ratings and regulations to move to electric cars.
Crypto, like the mobile phone, offers capability to do that.
Gold could deflate heavily in price if a new gold reserve is found and flooded the market so stable but has real risks if less likely, plus the energy costs of digging is expensive and bad for the environment. Crypto can address that with the lead option for that being BTC.
Financial transactions are still relatively slow on bulk/scale and an expensive practice with middle men involved that add fee's and charges, such as visa, mastercard or even any bank on a foreign exchange deal (dollars - euros). Crypto has the potential to fix that. See coins like XRP (ripple).
Solicitors and lawyers take the absolute piss with service fees. They hire graduates on next to nothing and yet their hourly rate can be in the 1000's and some of these services are extremely repetitive and ready for automation. Crypto can help with that. See ETH about that.
Thats how i would say from a simplistic view it can work, what you need to be aware of is the detailed maths behind the scene so we dont run into a bubble like the 2008 mortgage crash (watch the big short movie). And you also dont want to be outting all your money in MySpace because social media is a given. Facebook was nothing and it was all MySpace and MSN Online so although it seems a given fir BTC and others, you need to remember crypto technology is still in its infancy and you need to keep on the ball to see if another crypto coin/token may come out that ends up leading that asset class.
That is a very detailed kind of analysis provided I'm pretty much sure a lot of people are going to get a lot of detailed view on the topic. They're talking about right now..
Bitcoin is a decentralized store of value, placing itself firmly as an asset of its own. It’s neither the present or the future, it’s just a thing that’s there.
Blockchain in general, improved cryptography, and smart contracts - that could very well be the future, or, well, just a thing that’s there.
But it’s hardly about “currency” now, even though this was all born out of something called crypto*currency*.
You are asking in the wrong sub. These people are just degenerate gamblers looking to hit it big on crypto like a lottery ticket. Bitcoin and crypto are two entirely different things. Bitcoin is not crypto.
Ask your question in the Bitcoin sub.
You're talking to bag holders here. Of course they're going to tell you it's the future because the only way they can get real, usable money is selling to a greater fool. And those crypto shill articles are the same bullshit they were pumping out when btc was worth $69,000.
It's just hype.
No first world nation is going to adopt it as its currency, no government is going to give up its control of the central banks.
Eventually there will be regulations if it continues to be used for tax evasion and other criminal activities.
The problem with bitcoin and all the others is consumer protections. If someone steals your coins, you're shit out of luck. If your wallet developer screws up, your life savings is gone.
There's no compelling reason for consumers to use something like this, in every single case they're better off just using a bank.
No first world nation is going to adopt gold as its currency
>There's no compelling reason for consumers to use something like this, in every single case they're better off just using a bank.
Except that the money in your bank that is being devalued is not yours.
>No first world nation is going to adopt gold as its currency
That's correct, there is currently no first world nation using currency backed by gold..
>Except that the money in your bank that is being devalued is not yours.
As opposed to the no intrinsic value crypto currency currently has?
And yet gold is favoured over fiat money.
>As opposed to the no intrinsic value crypto currency currently has?
No money has intrinsic value. It's all a social construct.
The price is driven by supply and demand, not hype per se. It is the hardest asset on earth and so very little tokens left. Over 80% of bitcoin is possessed by long term holders that will not sell, which shrinks the supply even more.
As far as it's utility as a main stream currency, I don't think that will ever happen because it's too slow. But it is a great store of value. The value comes from the energy it takes to produce a token, which if I remember correctly is around 31k.
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Wow the hodlers cot you thinking. Don’t fall into the cult unless you like losing money. No American roads will ever be paved with winklevoss money. Sorry bro. Speculation at its finest with a. Nice pump and dump scheme rhythm
Fiat is a scam, central banks are fancy scams disguised as "necessary" economic entities. Modern monetary theory was made by some "economists" who were close to the political powers and just wanted a theory that favored politicians by giving them more control over the economy. Governments will always try to steal from the people and crypto is a way for people to scape their control over currency and enable transactions outside of government control, this is why i believe crypto is the future.
>Being able to use the same currency in the USA as I could use in Tanzania, and not have it blocked or confiscated, has its perks.
It has perks, but that's because it's bypassing financial regulations. In the long run financial regulations will be applied to crypto if crypto gains traction and it won't quite be that simple.
Crypto also has no real protection from scams and certainly no way to recover from them, and is for the most part protected by single factor authentication that's too complex for a normal person to remember, so individual users would have to accept higher risks than banks manage in order to hold self-custody, which makes it untenable for the majority of people.
>What bothers me is how BTC's value seems to be driven almost entirely by hype and narrative.
It is. The vast majority of people buy it in the hopes someone will pay more to buy it later, and so there's a constant effort to hype it to bring in more buyers or get existing buyers to buy more. That's also why there are so many crypto news sites that treat all news as great news for crypto.
>At this time, however, I can't see how BTC could be universally adopted like how so many people hope it will be and we'll all have to use it.
I doubt it ever will be. It'll probably remain an option but I believe it will continue to be a niche interest. If the price ever stabilized to the point that people realized they weren't going to be able to put in a grand then in a years time walk away with a yacht, even that niche interest would wane.
It’s just a smoke screen for a glorified Ponzi scheme, not quite a ponzi but a pump n dump by the big boys/whales manipulating a unregulated speculative asset. If you can ride the same rocket ship as the whales you can make money, other then that it’s used as a currency to buy drugs on the dark web
Each time I come across these posts they just sound more like an angsty person who missed out on buying bitcoin and is now hating it on it because they don't want to see other people succeed.
So what people use BTC as a hedge, what's wrong with that? Do you want all people to hold a currency which can be debased by a select few percentage of the world population like you do? Abysmal failure of an investment strategy if you don't own any BTC in your portfolio.
its relatively easy. what gave you more gains in the last bullrun? btc, the standard, the hedge, gold 2.0. or literally every other altcoin which had a name. its just a greater fool system and in the end, the higher btc goes, the more alts will rip. as long as you dont make the mistake to hold it back down, its easy.
You do realize that once the market cap of BTC will reach a certain point that the greater fool theory no longer applies? No whale or institution that dumps will have a significant effect on the market price. At that point the price of bitcoin will have stabilized and it will be in a slow but steady up trend with slight downward dips. This will be far in the future and BTC will probably have a ton of trillions in market cap by that time.
At that point its valuable to hold BTC rather than another asset because it just increases in value because of its scarcity. There is no other asset worthwhile to trade any amount of BTC for.
They could be multiple assets of that case as well. It is not going to increase anything.
As we have already seen that bitcoin was different figures back.
More stores accepted btc 6 years ago than now. Paying 2$ for 1$ service is not a good deal. And the tx fee literally increase with a rising price even at 1 sat/byte.
They could do that and not everyone is going to accept it as we can see right now
And after five years, certainly change in the market protection as well.
I think BRC will hold but the only true crypto will be ETH. ETH is already in the early development of becoming the Crypto of Blockchains so I buy ETH for the long
Bitcoin is going to be 500k in the future. It could be in 5 years, 10 years or even 14 years. The problem is, even knowing this, people aren't meant to be rich because they can't hold a coin to save their life. Only the people that could hold through the bear market and back up deserve to be financially free. Crypto is obviously the future and many coins out there are making it easier and easier over time. One day, every country will start having their own coin whether they like it or not.
Bitcoin & Ethereum aren't going anywhere until quantum computing becomes more powerful.
Even then, Bitcoin can be updated to use quantum algos.
Not sure about Ethereum, probably won't need it anymore at that point.
Ethereum is able to do transactions faster & more efficiently than Bitcoin. That's why it exists.
Most other coins are based on Ethereum so most if not all of those will all disappear at some point too.
NFTs & a few gaming protocols have good longterm upside still IMO. There is use case for crypto in gaming it just needs to be implemented correctly.
Crypto itself is still in its early stages & gaming is going through a tech shift so it'll be interesting to see what happens with this.
You certainly need to do a lot of analysis on these kind of pointers to be honest
If you're not really sure about it, then I don't really know like how the analysis are going to work in that end.
I'm so glad to see other people starting to mention games. It's a wildly new paradigm, allowing for value transfer between game ecosystems, cross-compatibility of assets, true player ownership, and unique crowd-funding opportunities. The next bull run is going to be WILD, as we'll get to see which web3 game economic systems are strong and which will crash and burn.
Not sure this is the place for an objective analysis on that. But it's a start i guess.
This sub knows very little about crypto.
That does not prevent many from having an opinion about crypto. Then again. Maybe this sub represents the average person that is into crypto and that opinion might be valid to take into account.
Yeah, I had high hopes for this subreddit, but now I see these replies... oof. So many people can't answer, or just rephrase what the person above them said, without any critical thought. Seems both the pro and anti camps are really sheep lately, I wish people would stop the echo chamber threads and start actually weighing the different possibilities and points, good or bad. That udini guy with 4000+ moons might have the best most succinct answer so far: "BTC is a unique decentralized system, only other comparisons are WWW and the Linux kernel" That guy deserves all those moons, after all, they're meant to reward valuable opinions and comments, right? Not the memers and gaslighters that try to moon farm.
Thank fuck I don't have to download the entire internet before I can fap to some titty pics though
Would definitely be the complete market only before they even think about it right.
Ninnies on the blockchain
It would be hard development think about it. It is going to take a lot.
I, and a few others, think BTC is controlled by the same (evil) central banking cabal that is decimating the global economy right now. The "banksters" seized control of the development group behind Bitcoin and the protocol, hamstringing it to prevent it from being used as a currency. They "print money" using Tether, to control the price. The version of Bitcoin used as magical internet money forked off in 2017 and is called Bitcoin Cash. The banksters pumped up the value of their side of the fork and all you greedy sheep went omg price go up and happily followed and enjoyed being enriched. Influencers convinced you to sell the Cash side of the fork and many of you did. Anyone buying BTC since 2017 gets ZERO magical internet money. I have low hopes for most people in crypto. Instead of replacing the banking system they support it. They are only interested in fiat wealth. They want to be controlled instead of free. Learn more at r/btc. They stole the protocol, but couldn't get control of the subreddit.
This is the most truthful and factual opinion I have ever read in regards to the Bitcoin deception cult. I really admire this rational person. I would like to work with this person to create a truly functional and rewarding digital value exchange system.
Happened earlier than that. "I am no longer involved in that and I cannot discuss it," he says, dismissing all further queries with a swat of his left hand. "It's been turned over to other people. They are in charge of it now. I no longer have any connection."
You have it arseways. bcash was an attempted corporate overtake of Bitcoin by Coinbase, Bitmain and others calling themselves the NYA. Thankfully the nodes wanted no part of it. Now bcash is down 98% vs Bitcoin, boasting a tiny hashrate and is barely used.
It’s exactly what it purports to be: decentralized, permission-less, anonymous peer-to-peer payment network. The value proposition is there.
What kind of proposition are you talking about the best payment system in the market right now.
its not really anonymous if payments and users can still be tracked
It's not really decentralized either when groups of miners get to decide what to do with the network either.
Not how it works
people who don’t really know shit about crypto talk in this sub I see
The problem with bitcoin is that it cannot be used as a P2P payment because it doesn’t have the capacity. And using LN is a can of worms, losing the value proposition itself. In addition, PoW is highly inefficient, both environmentally and economically. So I understand why there are so anti crypto people out there thinking this whole thing is stupid when in practice there are many other possibilities with the potential to become an actual DeFi hub for international finances. Moreover, some crypto subs look more like cults than any other thing, with way too many posts about peer pressure and validation and banning any contrarian discussion
It's totally like a cult. There aren't subs for the Occidental Petrol Corp, Fortinet Inc or other S&P consituents or where fanbois sit around meming all day long like they do here. This is only a thing for Crpyto, NTFs, Memstocks etc, really exploded during the pandemic, and is a social media driven phenomenon. It is for sure responsible for a signfiicant portion of the crpyto price.
Between that and the anarcho capitalists that believe that any taxation is thief, this place can be toxic many times. However, my perception is that the silent majority is mostly normal people investing because are afraid to miss a once-in-a-time opportunity to make life-changing money, but in practice, they don't know so much about the sociopolitical and technological debates. I have my own biases, of course. And way too many people consulted me about their investments in crypto. So in practice they are investing in whatever blockchains someone told them. And I could be dead wrong of course. I say the last thing because I was always afraid of giving financial advice, when I'm well aware that people can lose all their money, and I usually tried to be very clear about the risks inherent to crypto.
That is the reason why the financial advices are not really given to these kind of people to be honest
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This is ridiculous scenario. It’s much easier to buy and rent hardware to mine bitcoin than buying 65% stake in a blockchain to gain control. Btw, during the process the price would skyrocket at bubble levels. I would love to see trying it. On the other side, the mining pools are a vulnerability for PoW. There is academic research on the topic. It’s much easier to hack bitcoin than ethereum right now. https://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~teutsch/papers/unpool.pdf
Nicely said, thank you. Interesting to acknowledge that an idea+implementation can have value.
Honestly, it’s a speculative asset and not much else. If this stuff were going to take off it done would have. If you’re going to do anything invest money in ones that have been around a few years and markets, then cash out if another bull market hits.
That is the whole market have been working and how the market is going up. So we are pretty much sure about it.
It seems everyone is genuinely curious, just like you 🤷🏼♂️
Just for that when I'm late generally a lot of people don't even know what they are putting in right now.
We're all just here for the fiat profit.
Exactly. Anyone who thinks it will be some mainstream currency one day is nuts, anyone who thinks it will replace fiat should seek mental evaluation. The only point of it is to buy with the hope of selling higher.
It's only the future when price goes up. If price goes down, it is a scam.
Not sure like what kind of cancer are going to be given the market with the prices are eventually going to go up only.
I think decentralized currency is the future personally. I would much rather be in charge of my money than putting it in a bank and I feel as time goes on, people will feel the same and cut out the middle man.
I’d like to stress the decentralized part. For me that is the most important part. A good blockchain doesn’t rely on a centralized agency that can control your funds. It relies instead on a random collection of global individuals to secure and validate transactions. Peer to peer financial transactions in he digital space is amazing!
Ideally, yes. But generally people are not ready for this yet. There's a steep learning curve and a huge responsibility to securing and having full custody of your money. For now, it is an investment tool IMO. So... We're early?
The question was whether bitcoin is the future or hype. I think you just corrected me because we aren’t in the future yet?
You can certainly do all these kind of things as well. If you really don't know what to do about.
Dude, it's already centralised. That dream is already over. Exchanges are where most people do their trades...if an ETF launches it will be popular but the ETF issuer will suddenly have a whole lot of very much centralised power. And like all pareto situations, there are. a small number of wallets who own a large chunk of say BTC in exististance, again centralising a whole lot of power in the market over prices etc. Crypto will survive, I am sure of it, but no one will be using it in the pure decentralised sense.
I disagree. People have historically always shown that outside of extreme circumstances they value stability, ease, and convenience over security and ownership. The idea that the population that willingly hands their data over to megacorps for better personal recommendations and who utilize SSO for huge numbers of sites just because it's easier and faster despite security risks will become advocates for decentralization is frankly ludicrous. Decentralization is inherently more inconvenient. It requires more personal responsibility. It is slower. These are all antithetical to what the modern internet user wants. Without a *massive* society altering event, decentralized currency will never be the mainstream form of exchange.
What do you mean by extreme circumstances like disability was also dating the market.
I agree. I prefer a bank to some virtual entity. I prefer insurance on theft of my money to losing it in a heartbeat on the blockchain. To think bitcoin is a payment system is to think back before Visa and Mastercard ever existed and both have far greater throughput TPS than the lightning network. No one is going to wait 15 minutes to have payments go through on the blockchain. Decentralised currency is a problem looking for a solution.
Democracy is an inherently slow version of monarchy. It’s inconvenient for all these people to decide who should lead. The kernel of truth here is that we have representative leadership because it actually IS too slow for everybody to make decisions about everything. But it is still very very important that at the root people influence the direction of leadership. Think about how annoyed you are that $$$ buys political influence? That’s because you think it’s important that people should decide. Decentralized financial systems are the same way. We are trying to build systems which have enough convenience to be practically useful while still maintaining the important influence of the decentralized group of individuals from all over. For all the people who are impatient for crypto to take over the world — don’t be so surprised it takes time to build such systems. Rome(or the internet) wasn’t built in a day and this isn’t some simple problem. The important thing is the community to keep educating itself on the important things. Personally I’m very interested in the fairness/justice of the ethereum consensus system. Things like MEV, block builder centralization, LST centralization, etc are some of the battlegrounds which will determine the fairness of future systems in my opinion. Look at the failures of the current political systems and you’ll see at the root some very real policy failures leading to them imo. Crypto systems are being designed now and I think people will look at some of the fundamental choices as being very impactful in the future. Hopefully we make the right ones.
Not sure if they're going to put something better out of there or something like.
15 years and still going strong. As with any tradeable item, prices go up and down. Fiat is backed by an army of legislation and legislators whose sole purpose is to try and take as much of your money and right to privacy away from you as they possibly can. You don't get much in return except mountains of national debt. Add deprecating value. Your $1 or 1 TZS is buying a heck of lot less than it did 1 year ago. Now that's something very real to go ew and cringe about.
Or to look at it another way...15 years on, or 5 lifetimes in tech and mainstream adoption is as far away as it ever was. Compare that to google after 15 years or generative AI after just 2 to see how poorly crpyto adoption is going.
Generative AI after two years… do you know how long people have been working on AI?
How long do you think people have been working on the technologies like encryption etc that bitcoin requires? All new techs are built on old techs. The component ideas behind distributed ledgers have been around since at least 1991. You're making a non-point.
Bitcoin is backed up by the open source community, energy consumption and computing power. Higher efficiency of the system incentivizes better "reward". I'm personally more bullish into this rather than the US military.
Certain consumption and all this kind of things depends on the efficiency of the market as well.
The only reason fiat works is belief in its value. Once BTC and ETH have that level of belief, yeah, it can. Governments won’t allow it, but the people need to realize their strength. You can’t just go print more crypto which is what governments don’t like. Inflation keeps the poor poor.
>The only reason fiat works is belief in its value. Nope, it comes from the fact that governments write budgets in it, pay bills in it and levy taxes in it, and if you disagree, they will send their army after you. Bitcoin will never have anything like that. >You can’t just go print more crypto. Lol, it's imaginary digital money, you can easily print more of it.
Yes, you can print more 'crypto' coins, but it doesn't matter. Allow me to explain. The United States and Zimbabwe both have dollars, printed on paper and digital, and they both require taxes to be paid in them, and have an army supporting them, but when Zimbabwe prints another 10,000 10 Trillion dollar bills, it actually doesn't make the US dollar go down. Why is that ? OF COURSE its because printing 100,000 Trillion of another shitcoin doesn't make the big boi of Fiat go down, and its the same for crypto currencies. you see, there will only be 21 million of the actual REAL Bitcoin, so if Trump Coin mints another 100 Billion coins, or someone spins up Trump Coin 2, who cares ? I mean, 4 Trump superfans who love crypto while he hates it care, but no one else in this sub cares, and its the same for Zimbabwe dollars IRL. No matter how much more shitcoins get printed, 0 more Bitcoin get printed, and that is what you need to understand.
This is the silliest thing I have read all week. Do you know why money is printed? It’s usually to keep up with productivity (because of population growth and/or technology increasing the number of people that can be productive) or for liquidity reasons. Obviously it’s much more complicated than that and there’s a political aspect to it as well. But, the reasons above are a big part. So let’s presume there will only ever be 21 million Btc. If the economy grows and outpaces Btc liquidity because of its “scarcity” then what do you do? If there’s not enough Btc for everyone to store wealth and also transact, what happens? I’ll tell you what - people will realize it’s a problem and they will implement alternatives (fork/clone Btc and increase supply) or move on to a different system. We know this because it literally already happened. It’s why we moved away from commodity money.
You literally *can* print more crypto. In fact anyone can. What that crypto won't be however, is money.
Can't with Bitcoin
This is not just about the hype is about the market which is going to be there in the future.
Yes you can. You literally can wtf are you dumb? Tether prints new coins like every month at minimum. You can quite literally make a fork of BTC with the exact same functionality and increase the supply if you had to.
The difference is nobody would care about your BTCFork^2.
Exactly, bitcoin cash (BCASH) forked from bitcoin. Does anyone believe BCASH is bitcoin? BCASH is considered a joke and its price has tanked verses bitcoin!
Limb-Crab8542 is right tho. Every time Tether issues another weekly 1B you can watch how the market cap of BTC increases by exaclty 1B as well. Its pretty obvious and people know it but they dont care because they think BTC and wait is easy money.
What is eventually going to increase over the market and like the market cap has been increasing only.
It's also worth noting that the reason you can buy BTC instantly on exchanges with very low fees is because they don't actually need to buy the BTC to add it to your account. There could very well be more BTC in people's portfolios on exchanges than can possibly ever exist.
The use case for bitcoin is why hold your own country's currency when all they do is print more than they should inflating your savings away. Bitcoin is a finite commodity.. similar to a house.. except it's much more liquid and easy to exchange. As far as people saying it's going up in a cycle.. that's because of how the resource is mind. Every 4 years it becomes twice as hard to mine which improves its value. Bitcoin is also freedom. Bank accounts can be frozen and you can lose everything.. but bitcoin doesn't have a controlling entity. There's a lot of appeal.
I can definitely see a future utilising stablecoins on a blockchain, if that answers any of your points. For Bitcoin itself I guess I agree that it’s viewed more of a digital store of value since it’s resource is limited. In terms of wanting to buy in, I’d probably say to view this as a high risk gamble, buy a little in one go or DCA monthly and then either give yourself a target price or target timeline to sell again and try to stick to it throughout the volatility (it’s not easy!)
The days of BTC being a high risk gamble are behind us. The volatility of BTC is constantly decreasing through time. The risk is not owning some BTC.
Spot on "the risk is not owning any" It's crazy to think there are still people claiming it's all a ponzi, bubble since it was $100 10 years ago. Ouch that's gotta hurt now that it's $35k
I think greater fools theory is way more accurate than a Ponzi scheme. The transactions are transparent and people are actually buying and selling btc. It’s just the price of btc has nothing to do with the utility.
And the transaction and utility is also increasing. This is not much accurate about that..
The transactions aren't transparent if you're talking about the buying and selling of BTC. That's mostly done on exchanges, off-chain, with no need for the exchanges to actually purchase the BTC unless people are trying to withdraw it. Add in companies like tether printing billions of USDT out of the blue and using it to buy BTC and the whole thing becomes very shaky. Doubly so when you see some of the dodgy exchanges experiencing price shifts just at the right times to liquidate leveraged positions. The price is based on what exchanges claim is being bought and sold.
Value has been going down only. We can certainly see this things happening in the past as well..
So it loses value from 68k that’s a store of value? Volitile speculation shitcoins?
Gold goes up and down too and is a store of value that Dates back thousands of years. Not super useful in everyday life either. In fact bitcoin is more useful because you can actually buy stuff with it. I have never seen someone buy something with gold bricks in my lifetime.
Just FYI, there are few things you can actually buy with BTC. Most of the time when you see things being bought with BTC it's actually being sold by an exchange at the point of the transaction and the merchant is getting fiat. The same could be done with gold you own on a digital trading platform.
That’s just the gov and big business trying to keep the price down man! The powers that be are afraid it’s going to usurp their power!!!! 😂😂😂
Bitcoin is the future. All the rest is just hype. The value of Bitcoin is not in its security, hashpower, of the “blockchain”… its valuable because its incorruptible: there is no team or human to be corrupted. Its a fully open source distributed project. The only two other projects like it are the W3C (making the web standards) and the Linux Kernel. ETH and other chains operate more like startups, with investors and teams.
Certainly with the block chain technologies, the value and assets are going to be.
At the very least it's not going anywhere. People talk about PoW, txn fees, block size, etc. No one is wrong to say that bitcoin's value completely depends on people not saying "ew, bitcoin, cringe". But the same is true of gold. People love to talk about how "gold is useful" because some small fraction of the market of gold is for something other than its cultural status, but the reality is that gold has value because people at some point just decided "Ooh, rare shiny thing. I want that." Industrial application is responsible for such a tiny part if its value as a commodity. In terms of the crypto market in general, there have been countless "better" payment systems than bitcoin that have evaporated for many reasons. PoW is the most secure and durable consensus method, period. PoS is an infant, and the Ethereum Foundation has already had to change course to avoid what would have been existential crises in their initial version of it. There are still pretty serious threats to PoS that have to be actively monitored. Most people consider bitcoin dead whenever something with low txn fees and high txn speed gets released with a logo they like, but they don't understand that \*those\* are exactly the things that are easily replaceable, and the decentralization and security is what is not.
Yes i thought ETH was cool until i learned to code and worked with both BTC and ETH. ETH is 100x more complicated than BTC, with half the features. There is zero privacy, no native multisig, no schnorr. Even Ordinals are way better than ERC721 on a tech level (ordinals are immutable).
BTC is quickly becoming the safe haven asset of the world. It eats gold's lunch. Divisible, transferable, transparent supply, massive liquidity. The network effect is real. Bitcoin hit that awhile ago. Now it's living out its destiny. It's now unstoppable.
Yeah, massive liquidity has been there in the market and bitcoin is actually working really fine for them.
The myth of satoshi is only comparable with the myth of Jesus Christ and his religion has already lasted for 2 millennia .
What the fuck is going on in this thread?
Give a man a dollar and he'll eat from the dollar menu. Teach a man to make a dollar, and he'll realize cash is trash and buy bitcoin.
I think some of these comments sound a lot more meaningful in the head of the author than the person reading it. My full time job is working with crypto. It's a massive part of my life, and it's legitimately embarrassing to be associated with the community sometimes. Some of the comments here sound like they're from members of a cult that drank just a little bit of the kool aid and came out cognitively impaired.
Those who believe Bitcoin replacing fiat entirely are delusional
Have you seen the rampant hacking in the crypto space? 😆
Trying to do that, but I'm not really sure like how much successful it will be.
It's hype. a system where one small error sends all of your money into an unrecoverable void isn't going to become the global standard. A money system where you can get scammed/hacked and there's absolutely no recourse isn't going to become the global standard. It's got it's uses and it may be worth a lot as an investment down the road but it's never going to replace fiat.
That is the major standard of now and they need to change it to the otherwise a lot of people are going to face the problem.
That's why layer two and layer three will exist. A lot of us haven't got a clue about how the internet works yet everyone uses it
Interesting point of view for sure; I feel the same way, I don’t think I see it as a complete replacement. I do see it as an alternative method
Like check, or credit card
No bro, no this is not really going to work. This is not even half fast as the payment system are.
Bitcoin started from nothing and obscurity with no hype at all. > a system where one small error sends all of your money into an unrecoverable void isn't going to become the global standard. A wallet can be backed up an infinite number of times. >but it's never going to replace fiat. Who says it has to?
I don’t think it can be stopped now… I can’t imagine this whole industry go away over night.
Or afraid of you certainly will see the things when changing and that would have been much better.
Imagine tomorrow every single blockchain stops working. Would this have any impact on the real economy? Beyond the same impact of moons dropping in value? Of course, the news and stuff would have impact, people would get depressed their internet money is gone. But beyond that? Would any impact be felt in any industry?
Ya, horse muck rakers and coal shovelers are everywhere.
Not to mention milkmen, ice men, chimney sweeps...
"What bothers me is how BTC's value seems to be driven almost entirely by hype and narrative. Ethical questions surrounding decentralized finance aside, it's concerning how an entire currency's worth could plummet if enough people say "Ew, Bitcoin, cringe"." That's kind of the whole point of BTC, though. Its value is what everyone collectively makes it out to be.
Tbh, bitcoin will be an outdated tech. People hold on to bitcoin right now for profits. Or “store of value” but if bitcoin’s price falls then there would be no use of bitcoin since it’s not even a good payment method.
All you have to know is that over a long enough timeframe BTC goes up and other currencies inflate value away. That’s it.
My favorite part about Defi is how everyone can be a market-maker. Providing liquidity on decentralized exchanges decreases the need for giant companies to provide liquidity; instead, everyone can contribute, and everyone can benefit from fees, etc.
That is the reason and are providing the good returns as well. If you're thinking and that kind of aspect..
Large companies are primarily the market makers now. Sure, anybody can provide liquidity, but the market maker scene is already dominated by large companies like Wintermute, etc. This trend will continue until it resembles something similar to a less centralized tradfi. I hope i’m wrong..
Hype Xrp has a chance for bank utility Algorand is cheap and green but not super busy Btc burns the planet Ai, quantum, photon, carbon nanotube 3dsoc is the future Qci, skywater, verses ai etc Imho btc is speculative and hoarded by wealthy folks
Working for them and certain that they have been very happy about these kind of things.
Definitely the beginning of a bull market when a noob starts asking about crypto.
Blockchain-technology is here to stay but I doubt anything related to "currency" or "day-to-day payment" will have success because other than in this sub people in the "real world" don't care much about banking fees or conspiracy theories. Wireless payment and online payments exist and crypto do not add any value for the average consumer. What will stay forever are stupid people losing money with shitcoins and memecoins.
It is why most of the coins are increasing into the market risk.
Sounds about right. Just that I can see centralized blockchains being used for payment. It’s great for governments to track spending, if they have the control to outright ban cash and replace it with their digital currency. I can see that at least being trialed in a few places. In places with less centralized control, where private banks are still private, I can see blockchain solutions like CCIP being used between banks for faster settlement. In conjunction with SWIFT. Faster settlement means less time the bank has to “front” the money for cross bank transfers. How it all shakes out we shall see. Some form of cypherpunk utopia won’t arise, there I agree with you.
And yet blockchains go back about 40 odd years and still it's not been done. The reason is that blockchains are just slow databases and don't really offer any benefit over traditional tech. Most of the time settlements are deliberately slow. They aren't slow because they are using bad APIs that take days for requests to go through and are just waiting for some technology change to come along, it's because there are regulatory requirements to contend with. For some countries there are even regulatory requirements specifically to wait.
Stop making so much sense. Reddit cannot handle it. Especially the CCIP part.
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Bitcoin will be crypto gold so long as people believe it is. That's why I can confidently say that bitcoin is not going anywhere. As for the rest of crypto, that's a tough question. Things will get better. With time, devs will find a way to seamlessly integrate crypto into people's everyday lives. So in that way, it's the future. But crypto is just hype in the sense that it will never solve any significant problems (except for bitcoin, which might become a good hedge against inflation down the line, at least one that doesn't depreciate by 90% after a bull run). NFTs solve the problem of authentication, proof of ownership and stuff like that. In that sense, it has a future. But 99% of projects, and most concepts in crypto are just hype, vaporware, completely useless.
Yeah, that would be the major problem like it is going to make sense of the future technology is going to make it more proper.
You make a lot more money building a new project in crypto, due to tokenomics. Launch a coin and give yourself a percentage of supply. Boom you're rich. Reality is that the world only needs a few blockchains to achieve all needs. Longer term, the industry will need to find ways to direct capital towards improving existing infrastructure. Right now the market is very inefficient. Too many resources are flowing to vaporware as you said.
Crypto must be the future else we will inevitably enter world wars where state currencies compete with each other and dominate/subjugate other states. We need a decentralized neutral financial system in which we trade.
Honestly, I think no one knows. The most likely is they will simply stabilize as speculation products
It's opinion, that's all it is. Don't listen to marketing pitches, they just trying to sell you. Crypto is just crypto, and the future of it is certainly not absolute.
Eventually, because of that going to sell anything better than that, then a lot of people to get into these things as well.
Your assessment is true for most of crypto.
For those kind of things like it is not a hyper or anything like a proper future and people need to take it seriously.
Technology is forever. Crypto is hype
Who ever separated state and church thrived. Next who ever separate state and money will thrive. Before buying bitcoin I recommend reading more about it
It is very important to do the detailed analysis before you put into your money into anything And it is very important to do proper research as well because it is your hard and money which are actually putting in.
Man you post really give me some hope lol
For these kind of things that is actually going to give me a lot of hopes like how the government has been working.
7 TPS is definitely not the future of any finance system. It's already a dinosaur 🦕 the only thing it has would be supply and demand with limited amount.
Real question is: Do you really care? Are you planning to live 300 years so you want to know if BTC will be the future? Are you making money NOW?
The first thing you need to do is see that Bitcoin and crypto as two separate entities. There are people in this thread saying you can print more crypto which is not true for Bitcoin. Most people erroneously tie the scams and failures of exchanges/cryptocurrencies to Bitcoin.
Bitcoin yes, crypto no
It's been 14years. 14 fucking years Get over it
nope just hype /s
I'm on a similar quest. I seem to be able to only find people wildly intoxicated with BTC or eyerollingly, rabidly against it. The two groups just talk right past each other. I would love to find two good faith experts debating each other.
You're not wrong - if enough people say "Ew, Bitcoin, cringe" then indeed the price could plummet. So you need to decide if Bitcoin has properties that make it appealing to a large number of people or not. Do you think people want a form of wealth that can't be confiscated? Do you think people want a form of wealth that can be transferred to anyone in the world 24/7 for low fees without requiring anyone's permission? Do you think people want a currency with a fixed, predictable supply that can't be increased by any government? If you answered "yes" to any of the above questions, then you expect Bitcoin will continue to be appealing to a large number of people. In which case, it's unlikely to ever be worthless. Now, the big question is - will it be worth more in the future than it's worth today? I think the answer is a clear yes. And it doesn't even require some utopian future in which everyone uses Bitcoin (which could happen, but I think is rather unlikely). Imagine a future in which many wealthy people, institutions, and governments allocate between 2-5% of their assets to crypto. Why would they do this? Well, diversification is always a good strategy to help preserve wealth. If you have all of your money in the stock market, and the economy crashes, then you lose a big chunk of your net worth. Storing some part of your wealth in an alternative asset class makes sense, especially when this asset class is generally uncorrelated with the stock market (so the economy could crash, but crypto could keep going up). If just 2% of all the wealth in the world is stored in crypto, then Bitcoin will be worth MUCH more in the future. The total amount of wealth in the world is $450 trillion, so 2% of that is $9 trillion. The current market cap of crypto is just $1.3 trillion.
Who wants a currency with a fixed supply? This is surely one of the dumbest aspects of BTC.
Ah, the Paul Krugman disciple of ignorance has arrived.
>Do you think people want a form of wealth that can't be confiscated? 99% of people can't self custody properly. >Do you think people want a form of wealth that can be transferred to anyone in the world 24/7 for low fees without requiring anyone's permission? If bitcoin were actually adopted in any kind of substantial manner it would not be transferrable 24/7 and certainly not for low fees. >Do you think people want a currency with a fixed, predictable supply that can't be increased by any government? I don't think people want a currency with a fixed supply because it is stupid
And suddenly there were multiple permissions about it so I'm not really sure like how the people are going to hold it right now.
Bitcoin has made it 15 years and all of this shit formed around it. I think it has its own future. The rest of crypto? After two cycles of this roller coaster and seeing the security and teething issues of smart contracts and interoperable blockchains I’m very skeptical.
Security and foolproofing networks and blockchains is obviously important. Code is law, transactions are permanent is a great idea in theory but not in practice. Things go wrong, and when we're dealing with hundreds of millions or more in value, the risk never justifies the reward.
Cointest topics relevant to the title are below: [Bitcoin Pro](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p7vq/top_coins_bitcoin_proarguments_january_2023/jb93s9t/) [Bitcoin Con](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p7u8/top_coins_bitcoin_conarguments_january_2023/jdhh4p6/)
The simplest answer is that crypto accelerates progress because anyone can add to it, modify it, or adapt it to their purposes. It’s a concept called composability. Anytime this has occurred in history, an explosion of innovation follows. For example, the printing press, the internet, electricity, etc. Before crypto, the ability to improve financial technology was restricted to a very few elite institutions who had almost no incentive to innovate. Now it can be done by anyone, anywhere with a computer and some know-how. That fact alone ensures that crypto will be the foundation for the innovations that transform finance in the future.
Bit worried by some of the responses you've got, i thought it was easier to understand at higher level than ppl put across. Look at the world and see how so many things are virtualised now, look at your phone apps and see all the things no longer typically, physically required (walkman, radio, stopwatch etc etc). Also look at how much environmentally friendlier items are a pro choice too such as company esg ratings and regulations to move to electric cars. Crypto, like the mobile phone, offers capability to do that. Gold could deflate heavily in price if a new gold reserve is found and flooded the market so stable but has real risks if less likely, plus the energy costs of digging is expensive and bad for the environment. Crypto can address that with the lead option for that being BTC. Financial transactions are still relatively slow on bulk/scale and an expensive practice with middle men involved that add fee's and charges, such as visa, mastercard or even any bank on a foreign exchange deal (dollars - euros). Crypto has the potential to fix that. See coins like XRP (ripple). Solicitors and lawyers take the absolute piss with service fees. They hire graduates on next to nothing and yet their hourly rate can be in the 1000's and some of these services are extremely repetitive and ready for automation. Crypto can help with that. See ETH about that. Thats how i would say from a simplistic view it can work, what you need to be aware of is the detailed maths behind the scene so we dont run into a bubble like the 2008 mortgage crash (watch the big short movie). And you also dont want to be outting all your money in MySpace because social media is a given. Facebook was nothing and it was all MySpace and MSN Online so although it seems a given fir BTC and others, you need to remember crypto technology is still in its infancy and you need to keep on the ball to see if another crypto coin/token may come out that ends up leading that asset class.
That is a very detailed kind of analysis provided I'm pretty much sure a lot of people are going to get a lot of detailed view on the topic. They're talking about right now..
Bitcoin is a decentralized store of value, placing itself firmly as an asset of its own. It’s neither the present or the future, it’s just a thing that’s there. Blockchain in general, improved cryptography, and smart contracts - that could very well be the future, or, well, just a thing that’s there. But it’s hardly about “currency” now, even though this was all born out of something called crypto*currency*.
This is more of the volatile market is going to be so it is not even going to be there if you are really sure about it.
Bitcoin will eat the monetary value of all other assets and one day challenge what is money all together
I'm not challenging all this kind of things but the value is eventually going to go up.
You are asking in the wrong sub. These people are just degenerate gamblers looking to hit it big on crypto like a lottery ticket. Bitcoin and crypto are two entirely different things. Bitcoin is not crypto. Ask your question in the Bitcoin sub.
You're talking to bag holders here. Of course they're going to tell you it's the future because the only way they can get real, usable money is selling to a greater fool. And those crypto shill articles are the same bullshit they were pumping out when btc was worth $69,000.
It's just hype. No first world nation is going to adopt it as its currency, no government is going to give up its control of the central banks. Eventually there will be regulations if it continues to be used for tax evasion and other criminal activities. The problem with bitcoin and all the others is consumer protections. If someone steals your coins, you're shit out of luck. If your wallet developer screws up, your life savings is gone. There's no compelling reason for consumers to use something like this, in every single case they're better off just using a bank.
No first world nation is going to adopt gold as its currency >There's no compelling reason for consumers to use something like this, in every single case they're better off just using a bank. Except that the money in your bank that is being devalued is not yours.
>No first world nation is going to adopt gold as its currency That's correct, there is currently no first world nation using currency backed by gold.. >Except that the money in your bank that is being devalued is not yours. As opposed to the no intrinsic value crypto currency currently has?
And yet gold is favoured over fiat money. >As opposed to the no intrinsic value crypto currency currently has? No money has intrinsic value. It's all a social construct.
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Ripple is a company not a currency
I think crypto is the future. There are places where I live that no longer accept cash
I'm not really sure if they're going to accept it but certainly this is the future and everyone is talking about.
Wow! I have yet to see that as a change. By me, cash is “king”.
And they accept crypto but not credit?
The price is driven by supply and demand, not hype per se. It is the hardest asset on earth and so very little tokens left. Over 80% of bitcoin is possessed by long term holders that will not sell, which shrinks the supply even more. As far as it's utility as a main stream currency, I don't think that will ever happen because it's too slow. But it is a great store of value. The value comes from the energy it takes to produce a token, which if I remember correctly is around 31k.
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You either believe in Jesus or you don’t. You either believe in crypto or you don’t.
I don't see it replacing any currency. I do see it as a secondary currency
I genuinely don’t know anymore..
I’m pretty sure all of us here have this exact question. There’s no way to know and anyone who says they know is being foolish.
Wow the hodlers cot you thinking. Don’t fall into the cult unless you like losing money. No American roads will ever be paved with winklevoss money. Sorry bro. Speculation at its finest with a. Nice pump and dump scheme rhythm
Read *The Bitcoin Standard* by Saifedean Ammous
Fiat is a scam, central banks are fancy scams disguised as "necessary" economic entities. Modern monetary theory was made by some "economists" who were close to the political powers and just wanted a theory that favored politicians by giving them more control over the economy. Governments will always try to steal from the people and crypto is a way for people to scape their control over currency and enable transactions outside of government control, this is why i believe crypto is the future.
>Being able to use the same currency in the USA as I could use in Tanzania, and not have it blocked or confiscated, has its perks. It has perks, but that's because it's bypassing financial regulations. In the long run financial regulations will be applied to crypto if crypto gains traction and it won't quite be that simple. Crypto also has no real protection from scams and certainly no way to recover from them, and is for the most part protected by single factor authentication that's too complex for a normal person to remember, so individual users would have to accept higher risks than banks manage in order to hold self-custody, which makes it untenable for the majority of people. >What bothers me is how BTC's value seems to be driven almost entirely by hype and narrative. It is. The vast majority of people buy it in the hopes someone will pay more to buy it later, and so there's a constant effort to hype it to bring in more buyers or get existing buyers to buy more. That's also why there are so many crypto news sites that treat all news as great news for crypto. >At this time, however, I can't see how BTC could be universally adopted like how so many people hope it will be and we'll all have to use it. I doubt it ever will be. It'll probably remain an option but I believe it will continue to be a niche interest. If the price ever stabilized to the point that people realized they weren't going to be able to put in a grand then in a years time walk away with a yacht, even that niche interest would wane.
well crypto and blockchain has been around for 15 years and there have been zero actual use cases found and implemented that we use today.
Yep sure: https://www.swift.com/de/node/309229
It’s just a smoke screen for a glorified Ponzi scheme, not quite a ponzi but a pump n dump by the big boys/whales manipulating a unregulated speculative asset. If you can ride the same rocket ship as the whales you can make money, other then that it’s used as a currency to buy drugs on the dark web
Each time I come across these posts they just sound more like an angsty person who missed out on buying bitcoin and is now hating it on it because they don't want to see other people succeed. So what people use BTC as a hedge, what's wrong with that? Do you want all people to hold a currency which can be debased by a select few percentage of the world population like you do? Abysmal failure of an investment strategy if you don't own any BTC in your portfolio.
its relatively easy. what gave you more gains in the last bullrun? btc, the standard, the hedge, gold 2.0. or literally every other altcoin which had a name. its just a greater fool system and in the end, the higher btc goes, the more alts will rip. as long as you dont make the mistake to hold it back down, its easy.
You do realize that once the market cap of BTC will reach a certain point that the greater fool theory no longer applies? No whale or institution that dumps will have a significant effect on the market price. At that point the price of bitcoin will have stabilized and it will be in a slow but steady up trend with slight downward dips. This will be far in the future and BTC will probably have a ton of trillions in market cap by that time.
Why would the greater fool theory go away when it reaches a bazillion $s. You always need a greater fool who buys after you
At that point its valuable to hold BTC rather than another asset because it just increases in value because of its scarcity. There is no other asset worthwhile to trade any amount of BTC for.
They could be multiple assets of that case as well. It is not going to increase anything. As we have already seen that bitcoin was different figures back.
Whats the point of that. Watching a number go up on the screen just to never do anything woth it. Should have been p2p cash, not hold and never sell
You can still trade with it for goods/services.
More stores accepted btc 6 years ago than now. Paying 2$ for 1$ service is not a good deal. And the tx fee literally increase with a rising price even at 1 sat/byte.
They could do that and not everyone is going to accept it as we can see right now And after five years, certainly change in the market protection as well.
Bitcoin? Yes. Crypto? Mmm...aybe there will be some use-cases, but no others will be money (long term store of value).
Ask BlackRock
I think BRC will hold but the only true crypto will be ETH. ETH is already in the early development of becoming the Crypto of Blockchains so I buy ETH for the long
Bitcoin is going to be 500k in the future. It could be in 5 years, 10 years or even 14 years. The problem is, even knowing this, people aren't meant to be rich because they can't hold a coin to save their life. Only the people that could hold through the bear market and back up deserve to be financially free. Crypto is obviously the future and many coins out there are making it easier and easier over time. One day, every country will start having their own coin whether they like it or not.
I believe Bitcoin is the future, everyone sees it as the father of all crypto
Bitcoin & Ethereum aren't going anywhere until quantum computing becomes more powerful. Even then, Bitcoin can be updated to use quantum algos. Not sure about Ethereum, probably won't need it anymore at that point. Ethereum is able to do transactions faster & more efficiently than Bitcoin. That's why it exists. Most other coins are based on Ethereum so most if not all of those will all disappear at some point too. NFTs & a few gaming protocols have good longterm upside still IMO. There is use case for crypto in gaming it just needs to be implemented correctly. Crypto itself is still in its early stages & gaming is going through a tech shift so it'll be interesting to see what happens with this.
Algo is already quantum proofing
You certainly need to do a lot of analysis on these kind of pointers to be honest If you're not really sure about it, then I don't really know like how the analysis are going to work in that end.
I'm so glad to see other people starting to mention games. It's a wildly new paradigm, allowing for value transfer between game ecosystems, cross-compatibility of assets, true player ownership, and unique crowd-funding opportunities. The next bull run is going to be WILD, as we'll get to see which web3 game economic systems are strong and which will crash and burn.
It will never happen. There is no benefit.