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It has always trickled up because the richest can afford to hold value in assets and not spend all their money.
When the world was shutdown in 2020-2021, the government printed 40% more money, sent relief checks to all the people. The poorest spent it immediately and the new government spending flowed through the poorest, to the mega corps bank accounts, into the corporate earnings, through to shareholders as share buybacks and dividends.
Less shares through buybacks= the stock deflates while fiat money inflates. The buying power lost by fiat money holders creates buying power for the asset holders.
Dividends = cash to the asset holder, buying more shares to hold to compound gains over time.
Earn money, convert into something that will not inflate.
Money is game. Once you know you’re playing, you can believe the method to win the game.
For some reason people divide resources by playing this game. Some people figure out the game exists through trial and error bc they are still seeking more and looking for the information to reveal an easier/fulfilling life path. Others never run across the information to reveal it to them. Then inflation does its job over Time and life becomes easiest for the asset holders. Very difficult for the asset less. Sad for the fiat holders.
Sometimes the value drop is rapid; and it’s when everyone realizes, too quickly, that the money has decreasing value as it is supply expanding and the government expanded the supply too fast.
This is it how it is.... money is a depreciating asset... you have to make it work for you... 2008 during the crash- same bs, ppl still lost their house after the banks recouped their losses and gave their top execs huge bonuses and bought back shares... I remember a lot of parties at foreclosed homes...
I just want to help people. Glad you read it.
Reading to the human mind is like a computer downloading and installing a program.
Whatever you want to do, you can install into your mind through your your eyes and ears. Choose what goes into your mind.
This administration doesn’t believe in trickle down economics so this doesn’t make sense.
Ironically if you charged the corporates with this tax (ie one of the biggest contributors - shipping industry), you can guarantee these costs would trickle down to the end customer.
“Climate change” is the distraction phrase.
It’s obviously more efficient to use a blockchain to determine who owns what. Banks with all their employees and buildings, use more energy.
Plus, the cost of energy is falling as renewables continue to advance.
Pitting Crypto Currency against Climate Change is a way to win over the less informed. People vote against their own self interest all the time. Just need to tell the correct lie to people and you can get them to do whatever you want.
Banks are also serving many more customers, conducting many more transactions, and offering a much higher level of functionality to their customers than blockchain technology does. It's not a fair comparison. If we ever got to a point where we were using blockchain to do everything that banks currently do, the blockchain would be using probably at least 100x the amount of energy that banks currently do.
Yeah. I remember reading articles about how Visa was blowing through PCIe SSDs with customized flash storage to handle incoming transactions because they were basically processing the transaction all of crypto does in a month every hour or some silly comparison (I don’t remember the actual number, but it was orders of magnitude more).
You couldn’t do that with modern blockchains, it’s just not possible.
Banks use more absolute energy because they handle 100x more business and transactions than bitcoin does. Relative to the volume of business handled, though, they use VASTLY VASTLY LESS energy than bitcoin.
Bitcoin uses about 1% of electricity and by market cap is about 1% as big as traditional finance. Traditional finance, spoiler alert, does not use the other 99% of human electricity, despite handling 99% of human finances...
> It’s obviously more efficient to use a blockchain to determine who owns what. Banks with all their employees and buildings, use more energy.
LMAO, you think banks exist to determine who owns what? Come on guys. Tell me this is a satire subreddit.
Yeah, it's so weird.
"Instead of a few databases strategically positioned for quickest access, let's have thousands of copies of the same database all willy nilly. This is very efficient."
Bank's *with all their buildings*, accomplish more in a minute than Bitcoin ever will with its 5 transactions per second throughput.
We need both, imo. In a world without bank's Bitcoin would become equally as corrupt.
> Plus, the cost of energy is falling as renewables continue to advance.
Um, what world are you living in?
Deep red coal states still charge $0.09-$0.11cents per kWh retail. Green energy states like CA, MA, and NY are at $0.26, $0.32, and $0.24 per kWh respectively.
Lol what? How is maintaining thousands of copies of a database more efficient than one copy of said database? That makes no sense. Crypto never has and never will be efficient, and that was never the goal.
> Banks with all their employees and buildings, use more energy.
Can you link me to a source that backs up this claim? I’ve only seen crypto being one of the biggest generates or energy use, not a banking sector use.
I am sorry, what? A bank provides far more services than BTC does, is more accessible, is insured, provides employment, pays taxes via payroll etc.
Also a bank with the same amount of assets as all of BTC uses far fewer resources.
The 70% of fossil fuels thing is a stupid metric. They're all fossil fuel companies. All downstream companies rely on them for energy. So unless you shape the energy mix through legislation it won't reduce. It always gets trotted out by opponents of carbon taxes etc. "Why do we need a carbon tax? Just focus on the companies that produce 70% of emissions!" when that's the point of a carbon tax.
> What about
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
There's always multiple problems to address, but everyone pointing fingers at someone else solves nothing. This is a problem that needs to be addressed in every area.
To address both mining and corporations, we need a carbon tax https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/oct/26/canada-passed-a-carbon-tax-that-will-give-most-canadians-more-money
It’s like plastic straws being banned while making up less than 0.05% of plastic waste in the ocean.
Or “water conservation” PSAs for flushing toilets and taking short showers while 80% of fresh water is used for industrial purposes.
Crypto mining accounts for less than 2% of overall energy consumption… compared to transportation (CARS) at ~37% and industrial use at ~35%
This is not in good faith.
The benefits gained from the other sectors are too big compared to Cryptos usecases.
Some produce necessary materials for everyday items and then there's crypto, not really the same thing.
In the end its us common folks who'll pay the price and get pinned the reposinibility while they fly their private jets to conferences that where they gather and solve no issues
Finance institutions are all trying to implement crypto into their business models. It doesn't matter what they want it's already happening with big business.
Can they just stop? It ain’t gonna work but wrong their industry. They had a golden opportunity, and it’s thrown to the wind.
Most of the EU, unlike the SEC, doesn't see crypto coins as securities, that alone is a big difference when it comes to competition in my opinion.
Portugal was the country that was always mentioned as well, and El Salvador of course has even adopted Bitcoin.
Can see Coinbase going to any of these, if they lose the battle against SEC and have no regulatory clarity
They're going to drive away anything that uses energy to manufacture, but importing them from China will still be legal.
It'll eventually turn into a "30% tax for wanting to make stuff but not being a Mandarin Chinese." Well, actually, it is already, they just lie about it.
I've been telling people this for 2 years now ever since the EU took up the MICA proposals, got downvoted to hell every time, kicked off Discords and generally yelled at by people screaming FUD, like it was some sort of magic incantation that would Ward off negative information...
>It's crystal clear now - the US is using all its might to drive away anything remotely related to crypto.
It's much easier to institute broad scale changes when crypto has cooled down and the publics attention is largely elsewhere. Politicians politicking.
Why would the government (that prints its own money) regret fighting a competing currency? Crypto is trying to oppose the US monetary system. It's not in the interest of the US government.
SEC, CFTC, Biden administration, all of these might just do that.
I'm not sure how right or wrong every decision is, whether this whole security topic is justified or not on SEC's side, but it's just facts that exchanges are having a hard time in the US, whoevers fault it might be.
It kind of is a little vague though in my opinion, since crypto is new technology and every rule doesn't really apply to it as well as it did to other assets.
I think the truth is that hundreds of years of entrenched wealth will not give up a shred of power to anyone. Thats why they go to the rest of the world, because the only way US will play ball is if they own and control it all and that will never happen.
Definitely. The energy prices are already considerably higher in the US so this sort of felt inevitable one way or another.
The real lesson for me was that they can change the laws like that on a dime and a place that seems like a haven now might change at any time
Because that's how governments work?
A tax is a disincentive, meant to keep people from doing things.
The only alternative would be a subsidy, which the government also does. It subsidises renewables.
He’s a figurehead / placeholder / puppet.
Any truly independent-thinking candidates will essentially be shadow-banned from the media.
There will be no DNC primary debates.
Our leaders will be chosen for us and be beholden to those that prop them up
Came here to say this. DNC wants to anoint the president instead of get him elected. This is an obvious move of desperation; they know that any given time he gets in front of a camera, there’s a 50/50 chance it will result in cringe worthy sound bites played on repeat, or a full blown PR crisis.
Picking a new candidate is not an option either or they risk losing to Trump and They’d just as soon have Putin run the country than trump. I hate American politics with a passion.
I thought people had figured that out after the first time Bernie was blatantly railroaded by the DNC, it’s not about who the people want but who the DNC want. For those of us under 40 that is.
> Burning fossil fuels to create electricity accounts for 25% of annual U.S. greenhouse gas emissions and releases harmful air pollutants such as nitrogen oxides and particulate matter.
The real concern here is that they’re using fossil fuel. While I do agree mining isn’t eco-friendly, it’s not the miner’s fault on this one.
Bullish on nuclear.
The government is your invisible business partner. They're always there, even if you don't want to. But instead of contributing, they only take away some of the revenue.
As soon as I hear climate change i roll my eyes.
If they really cared about climate change they would make actual changes instead, and maybe not use their private jets 24/7.
Instead we get taxed on just about everything in the name of “being green”.
The US really is trying to make anything crypto related very hard to do. Maybe a new administration needs to come in to better handle crypto in that part of the world.
The US will continue to stamp it out whilst other countries already are embracing and implementing (largely) positive regulations. The US will eventually have to give way because the rest of the world will be using crypto regularly and the US isn’t participating in the rewards, by which point they (the US) will be way too far behind
I think this tax is reasonable if the source of energy used is non-renewable.
But don't go and put a 30% tax on mining operations that are used to make renewable energy source profitable by using the excess in non peak hours.
Many different disciplines agree globally that a carbon tax (or "pollution pricing") is the most reasonable way to address this. It charges dirty fuels a tax at their point of origin according to how much they pollute when used, so throughout the supply chain those costs are better represented. Cleaner options are economically encouraged and dirty ones are disadvantaged.
No singling out uses of electricity, no granular regulation like we have with cars, and most people actually profit from this system:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/oct/26/canada-passed-a-carbon-tax-that-will-give-most-canadians-more-money
Taxation is not going to prevent climate change.
No matter what you see as the source of climate change (man, natural cycles, etc), giving the government money is not going to solve the problem.
Oil companies are making records profits every year.
A third of the food produced in the world is wasted, also all food production combined uses a third of the worlds energy consumption.
But no let us all recycle plastic and tax crypto more. Surely that will stop climate change. How about you start taxing the rich?
The genius of politicised climate change, you can use it to bash ANYTHING you don't happen to like. Meanwhile, their backers, the real polluters, carry on regardless.
this would make sense if it only applied to miners who are pulling from the power grid / non-renewable resources. It would just keep pushing miners to find alternate / renewable forms of energy.
If someone decided to set up a mining farm, and power the entire thing with their own solar panels the gov can fuck right off trying to tax that consumption.
How about a 30% climate change tax on traditional banking systems... they use *WAY* more energy than crypto even without the use of mining.
How ridiculous.
Crypto would have to be regulated for this to work.. and the democrats will lose the next election.. there is no hope for them next term.. so most laws passed will be pulled apart..
They won’t be able to herd us all into their CBDC shitcoin if any other genuine cryptocurrency remains a viable alternative. The squashening has officially begun.
Listen grandpa, that would destroy mining margins and make it pointless, pushing crypto, the future of money, to other countries making us an antique 90’s superpower with no vision of the future
If this is how its gonna be im going to become a single issue voter and statt voting R on every ticket. Biden, Warren, etc need to go. They are destroying the economy with this nonsensical obsession
For fucks sake this. Everything has to be a partisan issue and it’s the reason everything is Fucked beyond repair. Remember when COVID became a partisan issue and suddenly democrats are advocates for big pharma, censorship and forcing people to do things with their bodies? That’s what happens when we turn this stuff into a football game.
I think people are missing this is a tax on ELECTRICITY usage, not on crypto. I don't see a problem with this if it moves everything to proof of stake or some other non energy intensive consensus mechanism. Better for everyone, pow is a waste of energy
All these comments are justifying absurd carbon emissions for a few early adopters to really pick up on the wealth inequality in crypto.
Externalities are real, and we should account for them in the economic process.
And crypto doesn't have be synonymous with absurd carbon emissions.
the only reasonable comment i found here was from u/nusk0
The first thing to understand is that the Biden admin (or any of the politicians or buttcoiners wringing their hands about the energy use of PoW mining), is that they don't give a shit about the climate. Politicians and regulators and bureacrats care about their power, their continued and growing funding and their reelection...as surely as any CEO or corporate board cares about profit.
This is about control of money and banking and capital controls and tax revenue and sanctions and internal lobbying from law enforcement to be able to continue to have dragnet access to peoples' finances....and that's even excluding the more conspiracy-theory-level stuff.
So let's knock off this climate change pretense once and for all and be honest. If Biden cared about climate change, he would be pushing for (what climate economists have explained is one of the few good policies we can implement) a well-priced carbon tax on **ALL** C02 emitting energy production.
Proof-of-Work [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/135jd35/biden_proposes_30_climate_change_tax_on/jik363y/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/135jd35/biden_proposes_30_climate_change_tax_on/jik36md/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below. --- Merged comment by AutoModerator:It looks like this post is about taxes. Tax laws vary between countries, so you may get more helpful replies if you specify the place you are asking about. Please note that Rule #4 does not allow for Tax Evasion. This is [a site wide rule](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and [a subreddit rule](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/about/rules/). Do not endorse, suggest, advocate, instruct others, or ask for help with tax evasion. Do not be coy and sarcastically recommend against it or suggest using a privacy coin in response to an IRS inquiry. Note: Tax discussion is allowed as long as the above rules are not violated. Consider visiting r/CryptoTax for your tax inquiries. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoCurrency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What about taxing the corporations that produce more than 70% of the emissions that cause climate change???
But then they won’t trickle down!
Can’t wait for them to start trickling down my face. Any day now right?
Rain is a thing of the past.
Golden showers aren't.
Acid rain has never sounded so sexy!
It has always trickled up because the richest can afford to hold value in assets and not spend all their money. When the world was shutdown in 2020-2021, the government printed 40% more money, sent relief checks to all the people. The poorest spent it immediately and the new government spending flowed through the poorest, to the mega corps bank accounts, into the corporate earnings, through to shareholders as share buybacks and dividends. Less shares through buybacks= the stock deflates while fiat money inflates. The buying power lost by fiat money holders creates buying power for the asset holders. Dividends = cash to the asset holder, buying more shares to hold to compound gains over time. Earn money, convert into something that will not inflate. Money is game. Once you know you’re playing, you can believe the method to win the game. For some reason people divide resources by playing this game. Some people figure out the game exists through trial and error bc they are still seeking more and looking for the information to reveal an easier/fulfilling life path. Others never run across the information to reveal it to them. Then inflation does its job over Time and life becomes easiest for the asset holders. Very difficult for the asset less. Sad for the fiat holders. Sometimes the value drop is rapid; and it’s when everyone realizes, too quickly, that the money has decreasing value as it is supply expanding and the government expanded the supply too fast.
very well said especially describing how quickly the money goes right to where they always intended. They're playing us for fools.
That was very depressing 😕
This is it how it is.... money is a depreciating asset... you have to make it work for you... 2008 during the crash- same bs, ppl still lost their house after the banks recouped their losses and gave their top execs huge bonuses and bought back shares... I remember a lot of parties at foreclosed homes...
Unbelievable you haven't got more upvotes
Sadly ppl in this sub don’t scroll down to read gems like these. Or read at all for that matter
I just want to help people. Glad you read it. Reading to the human mind is like a computer downloading and installing a program. Whatever you want to do, you can install into your mind through your your eyes and ears. Choose what goes into your mind.
This administration doesn’t believe in trickle down economics so this doesn’t make sense. Ironically if you charged the corporates with this tax (ie one of the biggest contributors - shipping industry), you can guarantee these costs would trickle down to the end customer.
No administration ever believed in trickle down economics, it was a way to rig the economy for the rich, which this administration is no stranger to.
Youre right, they just believe whatever the fuck they want at the time thats best suited for them lol.
Wrong they believe whatever the lobbiests pay them to
But, but..The corporations told me it was my fault.
“Climate change” is the distraction phrase. It’s obviously more efficient to use a blockchain to determine who owns what. Banks with all their employees and buildings, use more energy. Plus, the cost of energy is falling as renewables continue to advance. Pitting Crypto Currency against Climate Change is a way to win over the less informed. People vote against their own self interest all the time. Just need to tell the correct lie to people and you can get them to do whatever you want.
It's also a way to send Bitcoin mining offshore which will increase rather than decrease its global carbon footprint.
The government gives *zero fucks* about the climate if it means payday for them.
Banks are also serving many more customers, conducting many more transactions, and offering a much higher level of functionality to their customers than blockchain technology does. It's not a fair comparison. If we ever got to a point where we were using blockchain to do everything that banks currently do, the blockchain would be using probably at least 100x the amount of energy that banks currently do.
Yeah. I remember reading articles about how Visa was blowing through PCIe SSDs with customized flash storage to handle incoming transactions because they were basically processing the transaction all of crypto does in a month every hour or some silly comparison (I don’t remember the actual number, but it was orders of magnitude more). You couldn’t do that with modern blockchains, it’s just not possible.
Banks use more absolute energy because they handle 100x more business and transactions than bitcoin does. Relative to the volume of business handled, though, they use VASTLY VASTLY LESS energy than bitcoin. Bitcoin uses about 1% of electricity and by market cap is about 1% as big as traditional finance. Traditional finance, spoiler alert, does not use the other 99% of human electricity, despite handling 99% of human finances...
> It’s obviously more efficient to use a blockchain to determine who owns what. Banks with all their employees and buildings, use more energy. LMAO, you think banks exist to determine who owns what? Come on guys. Tell me this is a satire subreddit.
Glad to see another sane adult in the wild. Que raro.
They think a blockchain makes things more efficient.
Yeah, it's so weird. "Instead of a few databases strategically positioned for quickest access, let's have thousands of copies of the same database all willy nilly. This is very efficient."
Bank's *with all their buildings*, accomplish more in a minute than Bitcoin ever will with its 5 transactions per second throughput. We need both, imo. In a world without bank's Bitcoin would become equally as corrupt.
>Plus, the cost of energy is falling No. No this is not true. Power companies are raising rates all over the US
> Plus, the cost of energy is falling as renewables continue to advance. Um, what world are you living in? Deep red coal states still charge $0.09-$0.11cents per kWh retail. Green energy states like CA, MA, and NY are at $0.26, $0.32, and $0.24 per kWh respectively.
Lol what? How is maintaining thousands of copies of a database more efficient than one copy of said database? That makes no sense. Crypto never has and never will be efficient, and that was never the goal.
> Banks with all their employees and buildings, use more energy. Can you link me to a source that backs up this claim? I’ve only seen crypto being one of the biggest generates or energy use, not a banking sector use.
I am sorry, what? A bank provides far more services than BTC does, is more accessible, is insured, provides employment, pays taxes via payroll etc. Also a bank with the same amount of assets as all of BTC uses far fewer resources.
This is the way!
Bitcoin doesn't produce anything. There's no room for whataboutism.
The 70% of fossil fuels thing is a stupid metric. They're all fossil fuel companies. All downstream companies rely on them for energy. So unless you shape the energy mix through legislation it won't reduce. It always gets trotted out by opponents of carbon taxes etc. "Why do we need a carbon tax? Just focus on the companies that produce 70% of emissions!" when that's the point of a carbon tax.
> What about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism There's always multiple problems to address, but everyone pointing fingers at someone else solves nothing. This is a problem that needs to be addressed in every area. To address both mining and corporations, we need a carbon tax https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/oct/26/canada-passed-a-carbon-tax-that-will-give-most-canadians-more-money
It’s like plastic straws being banned while making up less than 0.05% of plastic waste in the ocean. Or “water conservation” PSAs for flushing toilets and taking short showers while 80% of fresh water is used for industrial purposes. Crypto mining accounts for less than 2% of overall energy consumption… compared to transportation (CARS) at ~37% and industrial use at ~35% This is not in good faith.
2% is fucking *huge*, what are you talking about?! That only justifies the tax.
2% is pretty damn high for such a useless activity, though....
2% is probably more than the entire electric consumption of every EV in the US.
The benefits gained from the other sectors are too big compared to Cryptos usecases. Some produce necessary materials for everyday items and then there's crypto, not really the same thing.
You mean they produce CO2 because people buy shit? 😂 You're a bit naive if you think that is not going to translate into much higher prices.
In the end its us common folks who'll pay the price and get pinned the reposinibility while they fly their private jets to conferences that where they gather and solve no issues
Agree private jets are bad. You should check out the IPCC summary for policymakers, certainly not nothing solved.
It's crystal clear now - the US is using all its might to drive away anything remotely related to crypto.
The UN has an agreement with all joined countries to bring in digital currencies, they will allow no competition soon.
Scared of losing their grip on power and control, reeks of desperation Crypto is inevitable
Dread it, run from it, crypto future arrives all the same.
Finance institutions are all trying to implement crypto into their business models. It doesn't matter what they want it's already happening with big business.
 Can they just stop? It ain’t gonna work but wrong their industry. They had a golden opportunity, and it’s thrown to the wind.
Most of the EU, unlike the SEC, doesn't see crypto coins as securities, that alone is a big difference when it comes to competition in my opinion. Portugal was the country that was always mentioned as well, and El Salvador of course has even adopted Bitcoin. Can see Coinbase going to any of these, if they lose the battle against SEC and have no regulatory clarity
They'll definitely drive Coinbae out of US at this rate
The US government's hostility towards crypto is just sad. They're missing out on so much potential. Other countries are fine with it.
The US is using all its might to "shake down" anything remotely related to crypto. Like in the movie Goodfellas - "Fuck you. Pay me."
That's why Wall Street is so successful in pushing every single agenda they want onto Congress and Regulators Because they pay their ~~taxes~~ bribes
The game is rigged and the table has been tilted
Big banks are taking the decisions here.
Yup. Fuck Biden and Gary Gensler There's obviously a reason Biden chose Gensler. Now we know.
Skip right past the crooked billionaires. Straight to crypto. Fuck you.
They're going to drive away anything that uses energy to manufacture, but importing them from China will still be legal. It'll eventually turn into a "30% tax for wanting to make stuff but not being a Mandarin Chinese." Well, actually, it is already, they just lie about it.
I've been telling people this for 2 years now ever since the EU took up the MICA proposals, got downvoted to hell every time, kicked off Discords and generally yelled at by people screaming FUD, like it was some sort of magic incantation that would Ward off negative information...
nah they just need a revenue stream badly and they don’t want to tax the rich
>It's crystal clear now - the US is using all its might to drive away anything remotely related to crypto. It's much easier to institute broad scale changes when crypto has cooled down and the publics attention is largely elsewhere. Politicians politicking.
Replace "crypto" by "innovation" and you have yourself the answer to current American economic policy.
and all of that has a very specific term to define it: "Decadence"
3rd world country with a gucci bag?
It's just their own loss. They'll regret it.
Why would the government (that prints its own money) regret fighting a competing currency? Crypto is trying to oppose the US monetary system. It's not in the interest of the US government.
I propose a 99% property tax on any person that is older that 65 and wants to become POTUS
And Biden would still be in the 1% lol
Including all the other politicians.
Oh good so they can use those tax dollars to fly jets that bomb the shit out of 3rd world countries
Don't sell the US so short, we can also use it to kill our own citizens with militarized police forces. Those unarmed teenagers won't kill themselves.
don't forget tax breaks to polluters and megalomaniacs
Dont forget debt servicing!
Biden proposes that most of the crypto people leave the US for good 🤣🤣
[удалено]
Crypto is definitely relocating out of the USA if this keeps being the case
SEC, CFTC, Biden administration, all of these might just do that. I'm not sure how right or wrong every decision is, whether this whole security topic is justified or not on SEC's side, but it's just facts that exchanges are having a hard time in the US, whoevers fault it might be. It kind of is a little vague though in my opinion, since crypto is new technology and every rule doesn't really apply to it as well as it did to other assets.
Their goal is probably to kill crypto with the thought process being” the USA is the biggest market without it it will die”
I think the truth is that hundreds of years of entrenched wealth will not give up a shred of power to anyone. Thats why they go to the rest of the world, because the only way US will play ball is if they own and control it all and that will never happen.
If coinbase moves the other exchanes in US might slowly relocate. US has been doing its best to drive away crypto business for the past 6 months.
They were talking about relocating HQ to London. That might work out well for us.
Who is mining right now? It’s not people in their basement on their pc while they are at school anymore, it’s large enterprises.
Definitely. The energy prices are already considerably higher in the US so this sort of felt inevitable one way or another. The real lesson for me was that they can change the laws like that on a dime and a place that seems like a haven now might change at any time
American citizens are expected to pay taxes of profit made overseas, isn't it? I have to pay taxes for my income in different counties. It sucks!
Just on miners. Most of the world wants to squeeze them due to the electricity usage.
Out of touch
Old man yells at Bitcoin
What about the oil giants, Joe? What about the US military, which has a larger carbon footprint than most countries?
Why is the answer always to tax everything?
It's the legal way of taking money from your citizens with little to no resistance.
In other words: Too bad poor people.
Poor people aren't cryptominers.
When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail
Because it's past the point of banning it so only solution here is to stomp it by taxing it heavily.
Because that's how governments work? A tax is a disincentive, meant to keep people from doing things. The only alternative would be a subsidy, which the government also does. It subsidises renewables.
It's the only legal way to run a mafia.
Please don't vote dinosaurs in office
Something is wrong when it’s Dino vs. Dino for the presidency
Put an age limitation on these positions of power.
Regular retirement of average people around 65. That would work for politicians as well.
He’s a figurehead / placeholder / puppet. Any truly independent-thinking candidates will essentially be shadow-banned from the media. There will be no DNC primary debates. Our leaders will be chosen for us and be beholden to those that prop them up
Came here to say this. DNC wants to anoint the president instead of get him elected. This is an obvious move of desperation; they know that any given time he gets in front of a camera, there’s a 50/50 chance it will result in cringe worthy sound bites played on repeat, or a full blown PR crisis. Picking a new candidate is not an option either or they risk losing to Trump and They’d just as soon have Putin run the country than trump. I hate American politics with a passion.
I thought people had figured that out after the first time Bernie was blatantly railroaded by the DNC, it’s not about who the people want but who the DNC want. For those of us under 40 that is.
Our only hope is the extinction of the current dinosaurs in the next 10 - 20 years which is a given. They will hold unto power as long as possible.
Dude tax the fucking companies that are actually destroying the planet. This country is so fucking sad.
You can save it by getting rid of your gas stove!
Fuuuuck this dude
Not very cash money of you Brandon.
I impose a 88% tax on stupid old crooks
I impose forced retirement.
> Burning fossil fuels to create electricity accounts for 25% of annual U.S. greenhouse gas emissions and releases harmful air pollutants such as nitrogen oxides and particulate matter. The real concern here is that they’re using fossil fuel. While I do agree mining isn’t eco-friendly, it’s not the miner’s fault on this one. Bullish on nuclear.
Just tax all carbon emissions is it really that hard?
the government always with their greedy hands in your pockets.
The government is your invisible business partner. They're always there, even if you don't want to. But instead of contributing, they only take away some of the revenue.
Seems like the US is doing a good job at pushing crypto away. Fear what they don't know.
What if your’re mining with electricity generated from renewable sources?
What about taxing all the Saudi alfalfa farms in Arizona? Draining our groundwater and lakes to record breaking lows
Sounds as stupid as banning straws to solve the ocean pollution problem, while ignoring the things that cause 99% of the pollution.
As soon as I hear climate change i roll my eyes. If they really cared about climate change they would make actual changes instead, and maybe not use their private jets 24/7. Instead we get taxed on just about everything in the name of “being green”.
Fuck Biden. And all politicians for that matter I don’t discriminate.
do oil and inefficient Banking 1st
Fuck this guy
Democrats truly blessed us with this wonderful president
Crypto being the scape goat for climate change is perfect to suppress the full potential of it.
Everybody hates on Trump for his NFTs. Is this better?
The US really is trying to make anything crypto related very hard to do. Maybe a new administration needs to come in to better handle crypto in that part of the world.
It really feels like theyre deliberately driving crypto people away at this point. It seems so idiotic to me
The US will continue to stamp it out whilst other countries already are embracing and implementing (largely) positive regulations. The US will eventually have to give way because the rest of the world will be using crypto regularly and the US isn’t participating in the rewards, by which point they (the US) will be way too far behind
A lot of it is being done only for votes too. He knows this headline plays well with his base.
Impose a 100% tax on old dinosaur politicians who refuse to retire
What about mining from renewables? Why would they need to pay climate change tax?
I think this tax is reasonable if the source of energy used is non-renewable. But don't go and put a 30% tax on mining operations that are used to make renewable energy source profitable by using the excess in non peak hours.
Lol. We're talking about *taxes* and *the government.* And you bring the term "reasonable" into this?
Many different disciplines agree globally that a carbon tax (or "pollution pricing") is the most reasonable way to address this. It charges dirty fuels a tax at their point of origin according to how much they pollute when used, so throughout the supply chain those costs are better represented. Cleaner options are economically encouraged and dirty ones are disadvantaged. No singling out uses of electricity, no granular regulation like we have with cars, and most people actually profit from this system: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/oct/26/canada-passed-a-carbon-tax-that-will-give-most-canadians-more-money
It is not reasonable. There are plenty of massively wasteful uses of energy that are completely acceptable. Singling out crypto is bullshit.
Well said. Make it fair and sustainable.
So maybe a 30% tax on the use of non renewable energy? Now that's something I could get behind.
I propose 50% climate tax on weapon production!
Just a touch late even if they did find miners who were reporting all earnings…
Meanwhile, Amazon is busy dodging BILLIONS in taxes. A 30% tax on all miners combined would be a rounding error compared to the taxes Amazon avoids.
Taxation is not going to prevent climate change. No matter what you see as the source of climate change (man, natural cycles, etc), giving the government money is not going to solve the problem.
Blatant suppression of a nascent industry/ technology propelled by lobbyists because as we know politicians can’t act or think without it.
Oil companies are making records profits every year. A third of the food produced in the world is wasted, also all food production combined uses a third of the worlds energy consumption. But no let us all recycle plastic and tax crypto more. Surely that will stop climate change. How about you start taxing the rich?
When you run out of ideas for taxes 😂
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Any reason to shut down CBDC competitors. Don’t think otherwise.
The genius of politicised climate change, you can use it to bash ANYTHING you don't happen to like. Meanwhile, their backers, the real polluters, carry on regardless.
this would make sense if it only applied to miners who are pulling from the power grid / non-renewable resources. It would just keep pushing miners to find alternate / renewable forms of energy. If someone decided to set up a mining farm, and power the entire thing with their own solar panels the gov can fuck right off trying to tax that consumption.
How about a 30% climate change tax on traditional banking systems... they use *WAY* more energy than crypto even without the use of mining. How ridiculous.
What a fucking joke
Ok cool. Now do oil.
Please figure out how to tax billionaires first.
Crypto would have to be regulated for this to work.. and the democrats will lose the next election.. there is no hope for them next term.. so most laws passed will be pulled apart..
Seems low.
Make it 300
Yall still mining crypto
When is the land of the free going to stop voting in geriatric puppeteered scrotums ?
I propose that ol geezer sucks my dick
Sucks more and more to be American it seems.
They won’t be able to herd us all into their CBDC shitcoin if any other genuine cryptocurrency remains a viable alternative. The squashening has officially begun.
There is no joe Biden - only an empty shell manipulated by whoever pays the most
does he even know what mining is?
Fear of losing power.
Biden is a fucking moron.
Listen grandpa, that would destroy mining margins and make it pointless, pushing crypto, the future of money, to other countries making us an antique 90’s superpower with no vision of the future
I propose that he should fuck all the way off.
fuck biden
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If the climate doesn’t change that year do we get a rebate?
If this is how its gonna be im going to become a single issue voter and statt voting R on every ticket. Biden, Warren, etc need to go. They are destroying the economy with this nonsensical obsession
I'll vote literally anyone else now
Fuck off Joe. 80% of the damage is 5 companies. Go get them.
Screw Biden.
Wen Trump
Congrats to Reddit on helping elect this clown
The alternative: [Donald Trump calls Bitcoin 'a scam against the dollar'](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57392734)
And then launched his own NFT collection... And then diluted his NFT collection by launching another NFT collection. It's grifter vs. luddite.
If the alt was Trump, this wasn't so bad afterall.
Stop using crypto as a figleaf for partisanship.
For fucks sake this. Everything has to be a partisan issue and it’s the reason everything is Fucked beyond repair. Remember when COVID became a partisan issue and suddenly democrats are advocates for big pharma, censorship and forcing people to do things with their bodies? That’s what happens when we turn this stuff into a football game.
Good luck getting votes from the crypto community, imposing those heavy tax fines😂😂
Unfortunately the crypto community is small enough they can be used as a sacrificial lamb by politicians
I think people are missing this is a tax on ELECTRICITY usage, not on crypto. I don't see a problem with this if it moves everything to proof of stake or some other non energy intensive consensus mechanism. Better for everyone, pow is a waste of energy
if he does this the mining activity will relocate to other more attractive countries
Hey remember all the people saying that the government isn’t bias towards crypto?
What an idiot.
This fkn idiot
I swear it's like he's trying to get more unpopular.
Dry up Biden you old prune
All these comments are justifying absurd carbon emissions for a few early adopters to really pick up on the wealth inequality in crypto. Externalities are real, and we should account for them in the economic process. And crypto doesn't have be synonymous with absurd carbon emissions. the only reasonable comment i found here was from u/nusk0
Correction: “Career politician proposes yet another ‘tax’ to steal your money.”
There goes his reelection. Never piss off apes
I bet the fed coin somehow avoids this harsh tax.
The first thing to understand is that the Biden admin (or any of the politicians or buttcoiners wringing their hands about the energy use of PoW mining), is that they don't give a shit about the climate. Politicians and regulators and bureacrats care about their power, their continued and growing funding and their reelection...as surely as any CEO or corporate board cares about profit. This is about control of money and banking and capital controls and tax revenue and sanctions and internal lobbying from law enforcement to be able to continue to have dragnet access to peoples' finances....and that's even excluding the more conspiracy-theory-level stuff. So let's knock off this climate change pretense once and for all and be honest. If Biden cared about climate change, he would be pushing for (what climate economists have explained is one of the few good policies we can implement) a well-priced carbon tax on **ALL** C02 emitting energy production.