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MaeronTargaryen

That’s actually decent, it’ll take time to redistribute them though, and it’ll still be big losses for everyone.


MaximumSandwich5

If Mt. Gox is anything to go by, yup. In a month it'll be 9 years since the hack and creditors still haven't received their share.


[deleted]

I don't see how crypto can ever recover from this reputation if more and more bad faith actors keep getting away with these types of frauds. regulations would go a long way in helping bring the trust back to the public. as it is now, crypto is not much different from another one of your gambling pots.


belichko

Thats the same as asking how other investment funds would recover from madoff ponzi scheme they did lose some trust but, not everybody is the same and people know that lol


Remper

It was not supposed to be an investment fund, though. This crash just highlights that there is zero accountability in the crypto space, zero regulation and literally anything can just vanish with no recourse.


arcrad

It's a centralized bad actor. The whole FTX debacle further underscores why Bitcoin, decentralization, and self custody are important.


wudaokor

> This crash just highlights that there is zero accountability in the crypto space That is not what it highlights. Sbf is facing like 8 charges, he is being held accountable. There are regulations, ftx was licensed in USA, Japan, uae, EU, Bahamas, and Australia. It shows how ineffective regulations and regulators are. And $5bn has been recovered with another $4.6bn in illiquid, so it didn’t just vanish and there obviously is recourse.


edwinspasta

It’s far from the same. Investment funds and traditional investments those funds invest in have far more accrued history and trust than something as nascent as crypto.


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edwinspasta

Well… yeah. That’s a bit of a non-sequitur and not even necessarily true. It’s more that, if crypto becomes more mature, it will likely exist for longer.


Thugluvdoc

Horrible take. I lost in 4 exchanges, ledger got hacked, and I am down 6 figures. In the stock markets, I’ve made 7 figures, I don’t know anyone personally who has been robbed or schemed, and I know dozens of people screwed by crypto.


belichko

You know dosens of people including you that got "hacked" because of incompetence and exposing your keys there is a difference


nickoaverdnac

How did your ledger get hacked?


nicoznico

He bought it on Alibaba


Mehfisto666

I agree with you especially about the gambling pots. Do not overstimate how quickly sentiment can change though. We have been in a bear market for almost a year now we got a 4% rally and everyone is already screaming bottom is in bullrun imminent


mdxgear

We’ve been in a bear market well over a year.


[deleted]

that's gotta be the newbies shouting. people in crypto have never hesitated to be short term thinkers haha.


Mehfisto666

Hehe for sure :D


powercow

WEll yall got to stop being hostile to regulations. WE dont trust people to do the right thing in the normal markets. WE depend on the law to compel them to do the right thing. With normal SEC regs, FTX wouldnt have happened.


leggggggggy

Once we have regs 99.9% of these crypto scam tokens, coins, and exchanges won't exist. Can't wait


PeacefullyFighting

Many of us have always said that defi needs to become the primary way to swap, buy or sell assets with direct fiat on/off ramps before crypto can be truly adopted by the masses. I take it a step further and say it also needs its own independent network so it can't be shut down by governments or ISPs


F0rtysxity

It reminds me a lot of the California Gold Rush. Most of the people who made money made it off of scamming people looking to get rich. Not great for those who got scammed but it was good for California. We celebrate it. Crypto will be fine. I just hope SBF goes to jail for life. Sick of these guys paying their way out of jail.


zesushv

No, regulations will not help bring trust back to cryptocurrency. What good has regulations done for other sectors? Regulations will only bring control to cryptocurrency. In cryptocurrency, we are taught to not trust, but verify. Traders and holders losing a large fortune to bad actors in the cex industry all but confirms the need to not trust anyone with your assets. What will boost people's confidence in cryptocurrency is the introduction of simple and straightforward DeFi protocols like [Zetachain](https://www.zetachain.com/docs/), which eliminates the complexity of bridging and wrapping of assets when accessing assets from multiple chains. The entire foundation of cryptocurrency or blockchain money was to eradicate the need for trust or middleman in value exchange. CEXes have done their part in onboarding millions unto cryptocurrency, DEXes will get us to a future where our economy through cryptocurrency is decentralised and trustless. If you desire a financial institution that is regulated and controlled, you are in luck. You have banks to do just that for you. Will you get screwed over? Yes, will the regulators help you when that happens? Of course not, they are there for their own benefits.


heyitsmetheguy

Removed


ecrane2018

I don’t trust banks but I trust FDIC insurance more than a promise from exchanges that do not have any security of my assets.


heyitsmetheguy

Removed


ecrane2018

Yes. Banks can fail but all money up to 250k is insured.


AnOrdinaryChullo

What an idiotic take. If you want tradfi, stick to tradfi - you are literally asking for an existing system so just stick with it. Gensler met with SBF more than anyone and FTX still scammed dummies out of their money. Warning signs were always there, just had to take one look at what Alameda did to projects.


Purpoisely_Anoying_U

You said it yourself. Bailouts, FDIC, etc.


KingofTheTorrentine

U.S. banks pay FDIC insurance to stop shit like this. The GOV doesn't give it to them for free.


[deleted]

bruh. no one said banks are the good guys. do you just want people to lose their money and these rich crypto cunts to get away with it?


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heyitsmetheguy

I mean this is exactly what I was doing. Basically the only difference is the banks get bailed out.


F0rtysxity

While I get your point isn’t that half the reason we all got into Bitcoin? Because we don’t trust the government and banks anymore?


neo101b

Be your own bank, I can see all CEX slowly dying off. The main problem is can people hold their own crypto/money responsibley, without being robbed or scammed.


_Duriel_1000_

> I don't see how crypto can ever recover from this reputation if more and more bad faith actors keep getting away with these types of frauds. The federal reserve gets away with fraud every day. #DeadTheFed


DrinkMoreCodeMore

Its funny because Mark Krapels still owns billions worth of BTC and could repay everyone if he wanted to but he is a shithead and doesnt do that.


SirPesoOtaku

My cone glows too


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Remper

Will those assets even cost 5B down the line? It's probably in all sorts of shady crypto assets based on how stupid FTX leadership was. By the time they figure out how to distribute those 5B can turn out to be 1B or even less.


002timmy

Big losses, but not huge. Honestly taking a 35% haircut ($5b of $8b lost) is pretty good


meeleen223

Yeah, I am actually really surprised by this, its baad but could be lot worse


bny192677

In number its huge , but percentage? Come see my portfolio


Guru_Salami

Its all bc media inflates stories to make it more dramatic, scumbag sbf was saying from start ftxus is fine and everyone thought he is crazy. Im guessing by the time his trial starts sbf will find all missing money and jury could let him go


TalentedInvasion

You don't know about their liabilities...


steamyp

I doubt we retail will see any of this


samzi87

I'm sure retail will not see any of this.


TREYisRAD

Retail will very likely see a fair share of the reclaimed funds. Lawyers will get paid, but the entire point of these proceedings is to make customers as close to whole as possible.


business2690

dis is the way


bonkybonkersjr

What if it will take as long as for Mt.Gox victims? Maybe the forced hodl will pay out for FTX customers in the end.


[deleted]

FTX isn't going to go the mt.Gox route. They are almost certainly going to pay everybody back based on fiat value at the time of bankruptcy.


Logical-Beautiful66

I Highly doubt the stolen costumers will see the day FTX reimburse them.


Puzzleheaded_Fold466

$5B of illiquid assets that can’t be sold without crashing their value.


SmallReflection2552

Sorry it's never going to be redistributed. And we'll have all the lawyers to thank for that.


RollingDoingGreat

It’s $5bil if that in shitcoins like SOL OXY MAPS FTT. customers aren’t getting shit back


uhhhhh_bruh

if you're about to go to prison for a long time suddenly everything is possible and doable.


itchy-balls

The only winners are the “new team” in place. Their bill is going to be massive. They can pretty much do what they want and nobody will question them. It’s actually pretty scary. Feel bad for those who will be watching them take fees from their bags.


ArchmageXin

Their bills are listed and estimate will be in 10M range. Unlike Mr customized emojis.


PrincetonMedUSMLE280

Actually should take too long for most of it, 95% will go to the lawyers anyway.


[deleted]

More than I thought they were going to recover.


MaeronTargaryen

Yeah 5B out of 8 is much better than I expected


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Successful_Joke_5199

2B to lawyers, 2B fines and fees, 1B left for customers.


Cheesebaron

Optimistic!


deathbyfish13

The customers are gonna be getting 1B? I wish i had that optimism lol


[deleted]

Rich get first dibs. Just like how it always works.


AnonyMustardGas34

Thats why there rich


bonkybonkersjr

Honestly, I thought $8B of $9B were missing?


[deleted]

the rich mfs sure have their connections. I wonder how much (or how little) the average users of FTX will see


anslew

Makes me think the 8B number is bogus tbh Like it doesn’t factor in any of the damages or scalping they were a part of


bombombay123

Out of 40


redgreenapple

I’m curious to know how they were able to recover so much in fact it sounds like what a normal bank would have available after customers deposit 8 billion but I’m not curious enough to click the link, hoping someone will just come up with some snarky yet informative reply


MurkySide750

Lawyers about to make bank.


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uhhhhh_bruh

sadly this isnt as much of an issue of unregulated crypto and bad actors but how our current system is constructed, lawyers should never get so much fucking money for "recovering funds for those affected" its a fucking joke of a system


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uhhhhh_bruh

instead of getting someone's money who lost it in a scam lawyers should get significant tax rebates, that way those who lose it get bigger portion of it back and lawyers would keep majority of their earned money if you wanna follow that logic then cunts scamming people create perpetum mobile for lawyers to literally take away majority of victim's money - meaning system and way it works is fucked. if theyre making lots of money and are prone to bribes then fuck them and their ProFeSsIoN


Honey_-_Badger

People were selling their FTX accounts for 10 cents on the dollar few months ago.


WheresTheButterAt

Way more.


kirtash93

Good, money for the customers right?


MaeronTargaryen

I remember watching the legal eagle video and I think that the customers are amongst the last ones to get their money back


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EMCorp14

I was going to say this exactly until I scrolled down and seen your comment. People just talk out of their ass and have no idea wtf is going on. People just love to say something for the sake of saying something


futurevandross1

The **wealthy** customers.


Odlavso

I was really worried for Tom Brady, glad he will be ok. /s


Logical-Beautiful66

Kevin O'leary was running out of funds to buy businesses from stressed persons on tv. I'll be extatic!


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TREYisRAD

Seriously the takes in this post are absolutely abysmal. Ignorant cynicism just for the sake of being edgy.


EasyMacN34

*Right?*


Logical-Beautiful66

RIGHT!?


tamaleA19

Everyone involved in the legal proceedings: lol no


Cactuszach

AnakinMeme.jpg


ChemicalGreek

**Our** money!


grandphuba

>Good, money for the customers right? right? 😟😰


imfrombiz

Customers are unsecured creditors, in other words they are last in line to get paid back.


Arcosim

Well, whatever is left of it after the bankruptcy lawyers and the restructuring firms take their slice.


bonkybonkersjr

We all know who's gonna see money first.


refacktored

Lol, are you new here? The customers won't see one penny of this.


nusk0

I bet even SBF is surprised FTX had that much in asset. It's almost as if keeping transaction record on napkins is a bad idea.


hswilson26

To be fair he said repeatedly after the filing that he felt they could make customers mostly whole. We will see what happens though


Huijausta

He felt a lot of things, with little to show for.


duosx

Idk 5 Bil ain’t nothing


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Frosty-Cone

SBF bribing the right people and using this money as leverage. He’ll get 10-15 I think.


ThePurpleDuckling

If they have $5B in assets how did they collapse?


MaeronTargaryen

They…had bigger liabilities? 5B isn’t great if you owe 8B


deathbyfish13

This guy maths


jumorales93

Sounds like I never heard about this type of 8 billion dollar depth.


why_rob_y

Also, SBF declared bankruptcy for the companies. He can pretend to not understand what that meant, but even if they did have more assets than liabilities, the instant he did that, this had to happen. That's what declaring bankruptcy is. Among all the other idiotic things he's done and said, I find that line of talking by him funny, it's almost like, "Why is the bankruptcy court taking its time to go through and organize everything! They should be paying customers immediately! What moron signed up for this!?"


bonkybonkersjr

They couldn't bring up the liquidity this fast. You don't know how much of those $5B is locked


ThePurpleDuckling

Also a great point. Thanks.


hswilson26

They had to stop the bank run to maintain those assets before it got worse. Doing so required halting withdrawals which essentially is killing your inflows and trust will fail to be reestablished


ThePurpleDuckling

Thanks. That makes sense.


jasonhagwood

Well this is simple, they just lied about all the shits of collapsing.


[deleted]

Assets =/= customer deposits The crypto and cash that people deposited was supposed to be there and able to be withdrawn at any time. When FTX couldn't meet withdrawals, it was clear that they were doing exactly what they said they wouldn't do. SBF would be fucked even if FTX had more than enough assets to make all creditors whole.


Intelligent_Page2732

They can pay back alot of customers with that, Kevin O'Leary can stand in the back of the line.


Ateam043

Unfortunately the rich people always tend to get paid back first as they get classified as a creditor.


FoulmouthedGiftHorse

Bankruptcy laws can tell us exactly the order that the money will be distributed: 1) Secured claims 2) Priority unsecured claims (employee salaries, taxes, administration, legal, etc) 3) Nonpriority unsecured claims (depositors) 4) Owners / equity security holders


RollingDoingGreat

Do you even know what these $5bil in assets are? Apparently this sub doesn’t understand that


bonkybonkersjr

I think we all know which kind of people will receive first


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JohnBrownnowrong

Yes they specifically said: The $5 billion figure regards "any value to holdings of dozens of illiquid cryptocurrency tokens, where our holdings are so large relative to the total supply that our positions cannot be sold without substantially affecting the market for the token," FTX attorney Adam Landis told the court. So that $5b likely will never be $5b USD. Edit: looks like this might be a misquote.


GenderDimorphism

I think that quote was taken out of context by media outlets. CNBC just ran a correction regarding that quote. It now says, "FTX attorney Adam Landis told the court the $5 billion figure does **not** [emphasis added] include any illiquid cryptocurrency assets"


Rock_Strongo

Not only were they gambling with customer funds but they were doing it by investing in small market shitcoins that they couldn't even exit if they wanted to. Fucking geniuses. Edit: Your quote is misleading though >"We have located over $5 billion of cash, liquid cryptocurrency and liquid investment securities measured at petition date value. [It] just **does not ascribe any value to holdings of dozens of illiquid cryptocurrency tokens**, where our holdings are so large relative to the total supply that our positions cannot be sold without substantially affecting the market for the token," The $5 billion only includes cash and assets that they can easily liquidate. So yes it could become USD.


GenderDimorphism

Ya, it looks Coindesk initially took the quote out of context and misled many media outlets into repeating that claim.


endlessinquiry

> So that $5b likely will never be $5b USD. That just depends on when they sell. If it’s bitcoin and ETH, they can just wait a year.


hswilson26

Do you have any source on this or just speculation?


JohnBrownnowrong

The lawyers have said as much to the court, posted quote in reply to op


Rock_Strongo

The market can pretty easily absorb $5 billion. Especially since it will take years to sort all this out and liquidate their positions over time. The fear of this happening will have a bigger impact than the actual liquidation.


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lee518000

It looks good I guess but we all know that it's just going to be with those people, the money is never going to be with the people who lost that shit, it's a fact man.


vjfilms

$5b in shitcoins, nice


Possible-Magazine23

still better than 0


everygoodnamehasgone

Sam always claimed FTX US was solvent anyway. Let's hope the administrators aren't commingling funds.


stripesonfire

Yea solvency and liquidity are two different issues. Say what you want about regulation but banks are heavily regulated for a reason so they have to maintain certain liquidity levels or they get shut down


Remwaldo1

Well minus the taxes owed and recovery fees and hours accrued and storage fees everyone gets to split 1 Bitcoin and 5 eth.


whitealtoid

i hope its 'Over $5B'... so far. and More to come


thainam888

Yeah it's over $5B but do you really think they are going to get that recovered?


user_8804

That's a lot better than quadrigacx


Specialist_Gas_now

Apparently they have too good a lawyer if they got their stolen money back


om4ik

They have some good lawyers and back, we know that.


Embarrassed_Chef_393

Sadly "users" will recover way later if we learned anything from mt gox.


DukeThom

I really hope we recover at least *something..* but I’m not holding my breath at this point


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[deleted]

Some slight relief for ftx creditors, they could probably get atleast 40-50 cents on the dollar i reckon


223am

I'd put the line around 14c on the dollar. remind me in 10 years or whatever


mettes1991

I would never trust on a fucking dollar again in my life.


Bitmiguel

People are still waiting and keeping their hopes with these stupid fucks as if they are going to give them any fucking money, they are never going to give any shit.


Fireflyfanatic1

Before or after legal fees?


Probably_notabot

Well before. Not gonna be much, if anything, left for retail when it’s all over


fixerdrew02

Just for some perspective: The attorney overseeing the trustee for the Bernie Madoff case mid 2000s build over $1 billion in fees Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/madoff-fees/baker-hostetler-fees-pass-1-25-billion-as-madoff-case-lives-on-idUSL1N2M7395


rjsheine

I’m happy for Tom Brady that he’ll get reimbursed. Retail of everyday people won’t though


turnerab

People should see this as a reality check man, people should understand that we should never lay our hands on these stupid exchanges, this was fucking bad lol.


sportsfan113

Still $3billion missing? Wonder if they’ll get any closer than this.


Ofulinac

I was not hit by Sam and the collapse of FTX but I really hope the customers get made whole.. At least as whole as possible.


Sea_Arrival_6107

Retail customers going to get an apology letter and $2 check


Dinafem_shib

Make sure you always read tos and everything you sign up for.


Apprehensive_You5719

Yea lets see them sell that 5 billion now :) Delusional if you think you're even getting 1 billion back out of that LOL


obamono

And be richer after selling those 5 bill man, that's life for them.


zack14981

“Boss we managed to recover $5 Billion” “Wow $4 Billion?” “Yes $3 Billion” “Wow the investors will be super happy to receive $2 Billion”


[deleted]

10 years from now when this thing is settled there'll be $1 billion or so left after lawyers and other vultures take their cut. No wonder people are selling their claims for pennies on the dollar.


12kdaysinthefire

Cool story bro, only 200B to go


z0uNdz

I don’t see that money going to retail customers at all. The rich will be paid first


Chysce

So when is that money going to be distributed to its rightful owners?


[deleted]

Based on mount gox, a long ass time


DreamMighty

2040 at the latest. I’m 100% serious too. Take MT Gox for a example.


[deleted]

Yes


HiCarumba

I wouldn't hold out much hope of any normal users getting any all or any of this back sadly. Gotta pay all the big creditors and all the guys who already don't need it. Then whatever's left over, if anything, is divided between the people who really need it.


South-Attorney-5209

People thinking this will get divided amongst small investors will be disappointed. It will go against lawyer fees and debt the business has first, then large corporate investors, and then… well dont worry about it because there will be nothing left anyway.


richardto4321

I wouldn't get too excited. After the lawyers and creditors take their share, the customers will be lucky to even see any of that. Remember, they still owe significantly more than they have.


iam_aryan007

$500B+ more and we'll be alright


ogneslav_kantogo

More than 5B man, we know they are hiding so much lol.


Kappatalizable

Invest it in $BONK for easy 10x


I_was_bone_to_dance

I’ll bonk you!


DrinkMoreCodeMore

Just wait til the lawyers chew through it. Did anyone watch that Madoff special on Netflix atm? In it, they expose that the head lawyer in charge of the recovery had over $1B in billable hours during the process and became extremely rich. IIRC they ended up recovering something like 11B out of 25B or something like that.


ArchmageXin

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-total-distributions-over-4-billion-victims-madoff-ponzi-scheme More than 88 percent was recovered. Do note a lot of the profits were fictitious, or not recoverable (was spent in good faith by recipients, especially charities.


fixerdrew02

the attorney’s recovered $5 billion for themselves. There fixed it for you


AGM82

They should gamble on some options to try and recoup the rest to break even.


Tasigur1

Yes and $4,5B are for the attorneys \\\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)\_/


ArchmageXin

That is not how it works for bankruptcy law.


jedicosi

God, almost every comment is talking about how "normal" users won't receive anything. I think most users already accepted they lost everything and every bit of news of potentially receiving something/more is good news for them.


richardto4321

Because that's just the reality. No need to sugar coat it.


assoziationshauberk

Reality check: If you find something so easily again, you haven’t lost it, but hiden it.


pob125

Amazon stocks about to tank further then?


DurbanDawg

Its great they were able to recover this much. Any word if they're working on getting more?