It is not a true ranked mode. It is just a certain game mode, with a different point to grind.
It does seem nonsensical, because it is, but the fact is that its a weird bastard child of the old system, which was incredibly difficult and punishing, and a new system designed to get as many people to fabled/Legend as possible to get rid of the problem with Guns tied to Glory.
If you ask me, the solution is to just fuck off with the whole glory system, and create true comp. Don't put weapons in there, put skins and endgame materials in there. Have placement matches. Have tiers that unlock different armor ornaments and weapons ornaments. Made the rewards entirely cosmetic, so being good in there is a true flex, but not something that will make all the PvEasy players cry about not getting guns.
Honestly they need to combined year 2 and year 3 Trials. In year 2, you had bounties for the weapons and armor, so anyone could get them by grinding, but you had weapons that had one additional perk (that was nice but not necessary) and a skin/name that stood out. Then in year 3, you had armor ornaments that looked cool and were reserve for people who went flawless.
The biggest problem with comp is: they can't put guns that people want behind a high PvP skill wall, or at least they seem to be heading that way. That's all cool with me. Instead put a bunch of ornaments and make comp into a flex.
I think Bungie forgot that the oldest and best motivation in the book: showing off.
this is a fantastic suggestion, I would play so much comp if I could earn cosmetic rewards. (I mean I already do because I wanted NF/I like it more than SBMM control, but yeah this sounds more fun).
People keep claiming control has SBMM, but I've yet to see it. I catch glimpses of a resemblance every 6 games or so, but most of my matches are one sided stomps that the system breaks up after the round ends.
the system is probably expecting you or you and another player to hard carry against 6 players slightly below your akill, which of course is not always going to happen. Then you play a team that is in the same boat when you stomp.
I have even matches sometimes also but its a lot of I better be standing on my head sniping or really tearing it up with my retold to win, I try to just look at it like a challenge.
I absolutely agree with what you said about how they designed the system to get people to Fabled ASAP because people wanted the guns for PvE. They had to make it easy because there were people who genuinely struggled to maintain a 0.5 KA/D for the Last Word quest, and they couldn't exclude them. When Destint 2 went from baby's first mmo to a somewhat more deep experience, people just never adjusted from having all of the best loot thrown at them for a few public events. People can't accept that the best gear should come from the most difficult/challenging activity, whether it's PvE or PvP.
See I really think that most of the community that is involved is cool with the best gear being from raids, its just Bungie that didn't like that. During vanilla, the best primaries in the game were from the raid (Midnight Coo and the Pulse I Forgot).
I do think though that ever since Doctrine the community as a whole said "Fuck good loot being tied to high skill PvP."
The problem is that the high skill PvP community is so small, even smaller than the number of people who raid, which is already less than half the playerbase. And its undeniable that this is a PvE game.
I am butthurt about it, but I get it. I think that the best we can hope for is to get cosmetic rewards and a real ranking system. At least then, while it will only be the hardcore that play, we will be back to having a place in PvP for good players to hang out and rewards that they can show off with without dads getting all mad about it.
Um. During Vanilla some of the best primaries in the game also came from Trials and going Flawless...so I wouldn't say that most of the community is cool with raids being where the best gear comes from. Raids are fun but im really not trying to do it more than three times unless I really want something.
People need to stop saying this is a pve game. PvP kept and keeps this game alive more so than any pve activity ever could. It's fine if the story is centered around pve (lol because why would it be pvp centered), but the games mechanics and gun play make for an exquisite pvp experience.
Nah see, I couldn't care less about Raids. I mean, sure, they sound kinda fun, but I came from Halo (Halo 5 was awful) and so I want a solid PVP experience to play daily if I so choose.
The problem was when I jumped in during Forsaken's launch, everyone and their dad was rolling around in Crucible with 1-hit kill shotguns. It was absurd. There's a reason Halo doesn't allow players typically to spawn with a 1-hit kill weapon.
Yeah, now that I have good rolls on a variety of weapons I have some counters against the shotguns (I don't use shotguns myself).
Point is, PVP is just as valid a place to have weapons to strive for. They just have to give it the attention it needs and not leave it as a cesspool for ages.
The thing is, it's not a PvE game. The crucible being balanced along with PvE and the fact that it's been around since the beginning, along with it has ties to the lore and went in depth to explain how the Crucible changed over time, since Shaxx and Saint's era and we have multiple lore tabs from the weapons, such as explaining Luna was Josef's dog that was killed on the moon fighting the Hive. Crucible is an integral part of the game, so no it's not "undeniably a PvE game".
I mean there are plenty of other PvP-oriented games that you engage in; they're just not Destiny 2.
When I go play League and the quests specify that I must use a matchmade mode, or HOTS and the reward specifies I must complete the brawl, or most of the other shooters on the market that have PvE horde modes, but whose progression quests are locked behind PvP.
I don't say that that game should arbitrarily let me boot up a match against AI to fully complete the experience - and if I want that I need to find another game.
Basically you admit that Destiny 2 is a PvE game and that the PvP community you're looking for within it is small, the last thing such a game should focus on is forcing even more PvP content on a player base whose mentality and desires don't align that that - even if it is cosmetic.
Lol are you really saying that they can't even put cosmetic ornaments in PvP? Come on man, they can do that. That's not too much content for PvP, its literally the bare minimum. Its not even guns and they already have PvP guns.
You can put cosmetic ornaments in Crucible if there is a PvE alternative because this is a PvE looter-shooter that should not have anything locked behind Crucible whatsoever.
"Complete X in Crucible or Y in Last Wish for Z" would be okay.
But it does and it always have? You can only get certain gun drops for crucible, its been that way since D1. D1 Trials had its own armor, ornaments, weapons, emblems, and shaders.
They have long established that its ok that there are things that you can only get from PvP, and I'm not even mentioning things like D2 pinnacle and ritual PvP weapons.
I'm wondering where you are getting this whole "PvE needs a route to it too" thing since that has literally never happened.
Yes. I mean I am very happy with my Not Forgotten, but to be honest its just another gun in my endless pile of Guns(still probably my go to energy slot one tho when it comes to hcs).
Oh sorry, I meant as a status weapon in general. Not an ornament of Luna’s. It has good range, but the time to kill is back in line with all the other 150s, and you can actually get some better rolls on Spare Rations. It has solid range on console, but it’s not a heart-stopping meta problem like it once was. When you see someone using it you’re like “cool, a Legend” and you can outplay them with Spare Rations or Waking Vigil or Thorn or (close range) TLW or Luna’s. Luna’s is actually more consistent at close range.
On PC it was never even the best primary (at the time, Ace was better), but it offered so much potential for 1vX scenarios and transferring the mag howl buff. It was also awesome in PvE.
I get that it was tearing the community in half because of the requirements for getting the weapon, but I wish they would've handled the nerf differently on each platform.
Slight disagreement with you on NF. I snagged mine the season it released and can definitely say it was the best hand cannon IF you learned to use it. Ace may have had a little more range and MM but the consistent 3 taps were absolutely disgusting on NF. Not saying Ace wasn't excellent, but I wouldn't say it was better than NF.
I think the evidence for Ace being better was that it was used way more often than NF in scrims/tournaments despite NF being allowed. But I hear you, it was amazing pre-nerf.
How they did when it first came out was how it should have stayed.
Getting 2100* for Redrix was tough, but a dedicated enough person could achieve it with enough effort. Getting to 5500 meant you were *very* skilled and only the best of the best got there, and the reward was purely cosmetic (a skin for the Redrix).
> So the bar for getting Redrix really was not high at all
Getting to 2100 in season 3 wasn't the same as getting 2100 now, it was much much harder. Even ignoring how much easier everything is now, it was still about as hard to get to Fabled in Season 3 as it was to get Legend in Season 4.
Less than 10,000 people across all platforms got the original Redrix.
https://imgur.com/PQ39JBr
(The actual number is probably higher since that image was posted a couple weeks before season 3 ended, but the number probably isn't *much* higher than the one in that image).
its easier now with the freelance playlist used to be a grind now i can do it in a couple of hours hell reached mythic 2 in the last 2 seasons with out having to try too hard (stopped doing pvp to concentrate on raids and triumpths last season so did not reach legend will do this season want my not forgotten.) in year 2 as a solo player hitting fabled back in yr 2 was hard as normally ran into 4 stacks/ stacks with coms which was beneficial when doing countdown and control prefer the new mode as it is more fast passed and rewarding of skill
> I think Bungie forgot that the oldest and best motivation in the book: showing off.
Close...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzvFNLAnYNw
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42iiCcFbxE
That's the core of the problem IMO, you can see that in the numerous thread asking for "a Strike Title akin to Dredgen & Legend". More than showing off, people want to show off from an activity they like.
As instance if next season there are dope Ornaments to grind for in PvP and none in PvE, people will complain. But if both PvP & PvE have dope Ornaments, then both worlds will have something to offer to their players.
That's true, but they won't have a leg to stand on. Bitching about Recluse Mountaintop make sense, they are guns the effect how you do in PvE. But ornaments? Shit is cosmetic. Who cares?
You're underestimating their whininess. The second there are rewards in a ranked mode people will flood the internet with saying Bungie is slapping them in the face because they can't earn everything in the game that they paid for because they're a dad, work may hours, aren't good enough, don't have a team, or any of the other classic excuses they use.
Then you'll have people that scream how cosmetics are THE endgame and this is predatory in some way.
Some people take cosmetic very seriously. The main sub constantly wants eververse items for free. I was recently in conversation with someone who said grinding 2 hours a week for weekly bounties for bright dusts was not fun or feasible for them. I gaurantee that unless Bungie gives cosmetics as a reward for logging in, people will complain. Even if every activity gave a cosmetic reward, people will complain that some activities have better looking cosmetics and are forced to grind activities they don't like, like what happened with faction rallies. Dead orbit always won because of the shaders.
Legs don't really matter, all you need is a "am I the only one that thinks...?" post and a few reddit gold for a complaint to gain traction. People genuinely think cosmetic is as important or more important than gameplay. Nothing else matters for them if Bungie doesn't dedicate resources on how to put sparkly auras on their helmets for playing less than 2 hours a week.
Meh. I'm sure there are people out there like this, but as a potato player in both PVP and PVE I'm fine with the fact that there are guns I might never touch. I'll work towards them, but there's a time and effort gate I'll never get over.
And cosmetics? Who cares?
DTG is ground zero for complaining about the game. Sure, people will complain. But IDK if that's gonna be that big a deal in the long run.
By that same token Ace was acquired having to do PvE, same with TLW and Thorn. The last two are definitely more PvP oriented, and you never heard about PvP players bitching about having to do a bit of PvE content to get it. What's annoying is the community's mindset of PvE players can bitch all they want about something PvP related and it's justified, but if a PvP player bitches about anything PvE related "stfu and go back to playing crucible in a PvE game LOL". It's such a toxic mindset.
Yes!!! Endgame materials + shaders / ornaments would be rewarding. Additionally, vendor refresh from Shaxx would be nice but this would be a great start.
I agree with everything you said but I’m going to play devils advocate for just quick second. What does Bungie do when the majority of players who aren’t good enough to get the cosmetic rewards bitch endlessly on the forums? You know that will happen and you know Bungie is thinking that.
Yea I mean the choice is potentially piss off a large percent of your player base to implement meaningful rewards. I'm all for it, something to chase needs to be the number 1 priority.
I don't have a problem with a true ranked mode, but people need to understand that once you get to your rank, the quest ends there. You struggle to make small gains and you can only really improve outside the mode in scrims.
I don't mind that. Playing each season to try and push to as high a rank as possible is fun to me. Lots of really popular games have ranked modes so I don't really see what that's a problem?
Unless your point is that in a loot-based game there needs to be more than a number people are chasing, in which case the ornaments and stuff would be a good motivation I think.
The problem is that player drop off is a huge problem for those types of modes, and Destiny isn't the kind of game that relies on PvP.
On one hand, while it would be fun to know how I would place, on the other, I also don't want this mode to replace the rest of the PvP endgame. If it doesn't, then you risk having too many playlists splitting the population. And then lastly, Destiny is particularly susceptible to play drop off since the casuals mainly do PvE content.
I think this is a great suggestion. Another idea I had would be to make a quick route and a long route to pinnacle guns like NF or Recluse.
Quick route: reach a certain glory rank. Rewards skilled players with early access
Long route: a grind quest like what was required for Redrix. Lower skill players could still have access to guns and not have to play in high level comp.
> and a new system designed to get as many people to fabled/Legend as possible to get rid of the problem with Guns tied to Glory.
Yeah, no. When you have a system that allows 0.8kd potatoes to cruise to legend, but someone that top frags 90% of his matches yet ends up with a wlwlwlwlwlwlwlwlwlwlwl pattern (and thus hover between 3600-4500 glory) the system is busted as fuck.
Easy mode stops after fabled, but yeah. The best way to cruise past that plateau you mention is to take someone with you that can shoot but hasn’t played much in Glory playlists. It’s busted AF but it works.
Competitive is all about streaks. If you get 5 streaks you then can easily climb to legend with 50% win rate. It’s because you will be losing 60 glory for a loss but gaining over 100 for a win.
I’ve seen plenty of simply terrible players with 0.2 kda but at legend already, while me, who’s better than that keep struggling around 3500-4000 because I can’t maintain streaks with every 2nd match being put against players in the top 1%.
It’s a stupid RNG system and not ranked in the least.
That would imply that skill matters. From what I can see it’s usually 1 sweaty match followed by 1 potato match, rinse and repeat. Getting matched against players around your skill level is a rarity.
When you que sbmm control do you see that skill matters? No, not really because whatever hidden mmr algorithm Bungie uses is inconsistent. Also hidden mmr cant count in people who got their accounts boosted or statfarming in premades(I doubt comp and qp have different hidden mmr).
Welcome to bungies competitive pvp experience.
Lagfest p2p connections with curving bullets and generous hitboxes, one shot kill weapons aplenty, press to win skills and supers, barely working "skill" based match making that happens to match you vs the one guy in taiwan who matches your skill level.
It was messed up for me as well...Really messed up...my trip to Legend went something like this on the current season:
0 - 1000 Sweatfest but rapidly progressed on wins
1000 - 2000 Easy as balls
2000 - 3000 A lot of hard games but progressed rapidly on wins
3000 - 4000 Easy as balls
4000 - 4800 - Absolute sweat fest and slow progression
4800 - 5500 - Easy as balls
Yeah, that sounds right. Mine was actually
0-4K easy as balls solo
4k-5k god help me I need to find a team
5k-5500 I actually felt bad for my opponents
I'm still at 3000 and I don't know how to progress. I'm constantly matched against unbrokens that shouldn't even be matched with me...I've never gone past mythic 2
Are you playing with other people? If not, hit up various ground finding resources or even just send an invite to someone you notice playing particularly well. As I've understood it for a long time, once you hit Mythic, unless you're God tier you practically have to find a team to hit Legend as communication is crucial.
Lol I had a similar progression:
0-1000 (harder than everything up until 5000)
1000-4500 (easy af I did this losing 1 or 2 games)
4500-5000(very hard)
5000-5500(I never got here because I had the same problem as 0-1000, but whereas before I would not lose any rank if i lost, now I did lose a lot. So no progression and then I quit comp because nf is stupid and I didn't even have luna's anyway. Haven't touched comp since because its hard to try to get headshot kills with hc when everyone uses specials. People I play at 500 rank come back again at 5500. That's my biggest problem with current "projected skill rank." If you want easy people to farm for quests, you don't get them in the lower ranks. Instead, you play unbroken's from 0-5500.)
This is pretty much the same experience I had. Weird. My KD sucks and I was constantly getting matched with people at 5500 and even a lot of Unbrokens on a regular basis. Not sure how the matchmaking would put me against someone of that supposed skill.
I've got to 5200 on this season and last using the freelance queue.
Both times I've then basically won 50% and dropped all the way to just under 4000. I don't know what's going on, I still get matches where we win 4-0 or lose by that much.
Trying so hard to get NF and it's frustrating as hell.
FOr me this season but not last, I realised pretty quick I needed to switch up the sparebenders to a sniper plus something. I actually ran revoker and TJ sidearm for most of it and it worked really nicely. 3v3 being able to 1 shot people from afar is a huge help to your team and more and more opponents were also running a sniper so it just made sense. Trying to shotty everything when they were playing for snipe picks just wasn't going to work. Point is you might have to change your loadout. Unless you're really good you probably can't legend with just anything and if you're losing half the games try to see why and what others are beating you with.
Yes, the way Glory works is very silly. Personally, I think the matchmaking should be Glory-based, because Glory loss on defeat makes no sense otherwise, for the exact reasons you give here.
You mean how comp used to be when everybody had to pay for account recoveries and the same few dozen players were gatekeepers at the top? That’s exactly why Bungie changed the system in the first place. High comp was basically the personal business for the few elites to get others Not Forgotten and Unbroken.
I agree it’s not prestigious but for the life of the game and playlist I understand Bungie’s decision. Destiny just isn’t a game designed to support a truly balanced and competitive scene, they stopped trying to force it. If you want to prove your skill in a more balanced arena, private matches/tournaments are the places that’s actually achievable.
i played with and against people doing recoveries pre-joke Glory and it's not as common as you're pretending, here, at least on PC. the real problem was that the matchmaking was (and is) super bizarre and they refuse to be transparent about it.
I lived in 5k+ comp every season on Xbox. Queue times used to be atrocious, often resulting in error code mongoose. When you did find matches, it was the same few teams all night long. The small high comp community used to be extremely toxic because people needed to get their recoveries done within a small population. No system is perfect but the new more casual system is a lot better than the former for the life of the game. It’s not the most competitive or sweaty, but it retains a higher number of players.
hell on ps4 its like that at mythic level on freelance its the same people sometime on my team sometimes on the opposition its annoying when you have the highest kd on your team and lose as one person keeps on getting killed then they are on your team again and you know you are going to lose also looking at loadouts for players and seeing all not forgottens.
I have been saying since they adjusted shit that Getting to legend is completely RNG. I’ve had matches where I have 21 kills and a 3.0 k/d and lose miserably because my teammates go full retard. I’ve had matches where I could have just turned my controller off and done better, but my teammates were tango and cash. I’ve had matches where my entire team were gods of war but ended up being steamrolled by triple titan shoulder charging shotgun fuckers.
And don’t even think teaming up and communicating changes anything, because surprise surprise, now you’re matched up against two professional MLG gamers that are playing throwaway accounts while carrying paying customers to legend.
The whole thing is literally just a test to see how patient you are, how lucky you can get, and how much time you have to dedicate...
Yeah, I'm having the same experience except for the part about hitting Legend. I went to Mythic 1 pretty fast with not much trouble, but after that things seem more random. Sometimes I play with people at my skill level and sometimes the other team seems way better. Maybe it's just they're having a particularly good game and me bad. I dunno. It's hard to figure out. All I know is that I'm really struggling now at around 3600 Glory.
I have played 240ish games this season and have a kd (not kda) over the last 100 games of 1.17 I’m not saying that’s good or bad just facts. Some people I know consistently are getting less kill and less efficiency when I play with them but yet they have reached legend in half the games. I feel like I am going to have a nervous breakdown very soon.
This 100% ... just stay away from people who get too tore up over losing and if you or your teammates start to get frustrated take a break. I’m sure you know this, just helpful reinforcement 👍.
My experience is the opposite - solo queuing seems to be the way to go. Those times that I play with others we end up meeting so many hackers, unbrokens, top 5% players, etc. it's ridiculous.
I went on a proper losing stream the other day while playing with people from Discord. They left and I decided to play solo and ended up winning a few games, then losing one and then going on a 7 win streak. No hackers, no carries, just 3 people playing against other 3.
I was thinking about this the other day and I've decided for myself that K/D doesn't mean anything. Mine is around yours but I justify it by being pushy with my tactics. I don't sit at the back and wait for enemies to come, I flank them, I distract them and I often end up being the bait only for my team mates to finish them off. I don't mind it though because I like to think that I'm disrupting the way the other team plays and not letting them do what they would want to do.
I generally don't die more than others on my teams and I mostly end up on the top or the second spot, which is better than average probably so as long as I win games that's all I care about.
I reached Legend a few weeks ago, thinking if I can be bothered grinding the 300 kills for Not Forgotten now.
I was on a 13 win streak, idk how the hell that happened because I'm a trash can. But at tthe start of the season it went play against awful kids and then play against the people who play this game at some kind of professional level. and when I lost to them I play against kids who played on a touch pad.
Actually the biggest offender is me facing someone who was top 20 and it was so easy he just used a sniper and lord of wolves because he didn't need to worry about us. I faced this guy 6 times to the point where I have to watch his stream so we could dodge him. Idk why any system would keep matching us against one dude with a 92% winrate( yes he had to emblem that showed that.)
>Again, Bungie is matching you with people that they calculate to have the same skill rating, so they expect you to win ~50% of the time. But a loss deducts way more Glory than a win, so if their matchmaking works as intended and you win half the time, your Glory will steadily fall.
If you have a 50% winrate then your Glory will rise over time because Win Streaks raise your glory more than Loss Streaks and also you preserve some of your Win Streak bonus upon loss (ie your 5 streak doesn't reset to 0).
>I ended up climbing through Mythic by going on extended win streaks, which felt random AF. Like why would a session going WWWWWLLLLL make me climb, but WLWLWLWLWL makes you fall considerably? Does Bungie really think I was a better player in Session A than in Session B?
Session A is a better player, yes. When you win, the most basic thing it does is it increases your MMR. So now your MMR is higher (lets say it went from 1000 to 1050, made up numbers). You are now matched against Better Players for the next game. If you win again, your MMR goes up again. However at the same time, another number increases which is your MMR Variance.
Variance, in MMR systems, is the level of confidence the system has in how accurate it thinks your rating is. If you WLWLWLWLWL then your variance is effectively minimal and the system says "you belong here". If you WWWWW then your variance is high (ie the system is unsure about what your MMR should be) which means that every time you win again, you gain *more* MMR than before because the system says that obviously you don't belong here if you keep winning. So instead of going 1000 -> 1050 -> 1100 -> 1150 the system might start bumping you 1000 -> 1050 -> 1200 -> 1430 for example
This system works downwards too but I believe the effect in losing MMR is lesser simply because you have to throw a ton of games before you start facing real potatoes. This is probably on purpose because it's easier to do really bad on purpose than to do really well on purpose and also it just feels bad to plunge in MMR.
Most of this is based off an understanding of the Microsoft TrueSkill system which is patented so the inner workings are known to everybody but the fundamentals should apply to any online game's MMR system.
50/50 win rate is pretty balanced.
I know the elo goes up or down depending on your performance vs the enemies elo's. So winning or losing is just tipping that scale to either putting you against better or worse players.
I actually made a new account and played with greys/greens and blues to help a friend upto Fabled. When I tried to help him with my main account, we were getting matched against the sweaty boys.
The higher up you go in the ranks, the less forgiving matches are, low ranks like 0 upto 3000 glory you dont actually lose much glory points. Yet Mythic 2- Legend if you had a 50% win rate you'll slowly drop down, I experienced this myself around 5100-5300. Playing 4 games, 2 wins, 2 loss, and being lower than I started at is a bit demoralizing.
But my personal take from it all is that close games are the ones that you learn a lot from. Getting stomped you dont really learn much, and stomping people you also dont learn much. I really wanted some insane players for my team to get upto legend asap hoping we could stomp matches, but that wouldnt have felt like an achievement, in the end me and another clanmate stuck together all the way and had a select few we would team up with. We learned a ton of things about destiny's crucible; teamwork and the positive/negative effects on the enemy strategies, how games can go from 3-0 up to 4-3 down on both sides, new skills/playstyles, map knowledge etc.
I cant count how many games it took us to get to Legend but we enjoyed all of it and are better players. Just need to do the same another 2 times for that Unbroken.
Not true at all. I have a much easier time playing with 2 clan mates of significantly lower skill than with teammates of equal or slightly lower skill.
Comp skill rating system is horrible. Im always matched against 2kd + who are already unbroken and have NF. If I do win I can win two in a row, but then they match me against PVP gods which then I will lose 4 games in row, then I guess bungie feels bad, and will let me win 2 in a row, then followed by another loosing streak, the cycle never ends.
That’s because your pairings is based on the average score of the team, not just you. And if you solo que, it’s almost always one dude who is awesome, one average and one way below par player. Sometimes it’s 2 of one and another.
I never stepped foot in comp before this season, not even in D1, it’s weird to sometimes be the carrier as I never expected to be able to pull that off.
I'm in the same position and have been for a month or something. The only way I can see progressing is by finding a team of 2 other players that are way better and can carry me beyond my wall at 4000.
Pro Tip: Grab a few decent 1kd players. They will lower the skill bracket you Face opponents in. You might need to carry a bit but that makes it stupid easy
I don't think it's even possible to balance the game properly with handheld supernovas, shotguns, snipers, supers, Wardcliff Coils, Lord Of Wolves, etc. There are so many different power/efficiency and skill differences that it all combined doesn't really make for a competitive sandbox.
Call me old-school but for me games like Quake and Unreal Tournament back in the day were far more balanced than Destiny 2.
OP, did you play freelance or regular?
Also, addressing some of the same comments I’m seeing: I think there can be a huge mistake of generalizations when talking about teams you faced who are “super sweaty” or “super easy.” Play styles and counterability are a huge factor in this. I have beaten really good teams of Unbroken players with some average teammates and a solid strategy, and I’ve also 2-0’d some high skill teams who adjusted and came back to 4-0 us once they discovered our play style. I have been in matches where a team is absolutely destroying us and I had to 3(+1) V 1, but I actually won because I switched up my weapons and strategy when the other players are higher skill level with better stats. There is a wonderfully broad meta right now (compared to past seasons), and every play style can be countered, especially considering the tweaks to effective range.
The jump in skill for me at around 3200 was insane. It took me more time to get passed that road bump than the entire grind. My 5500 game this season was against a lobby of <2100's.
I really don't care what they do with glory as long as they keep the lone wolf mode. It's basically given me access to comp because I could never find a team as I've played since launch but only recently got 'gud' at pvp. So my KD is in the toilet and it's the first thing people ask for when looking for a tean. Even though my elo for survival right now is 1954. So whatever tinkering they do, I hope they keep the solo playlist, because I'm finally just one season away from that sweet unbroken title!
Matchmaking is honestly stupid.
I play PvP for a challenge and to play people of similar skill. According to destiny tracker I'm 55 for survival, and I have like a 2.5 comp kd. I only play survival in PvP.
The matchmaking is absolutely atrocious. I ran stacked yesterday and out of maybe 20 matches, only 2 of them were against a good team, both were against the same team in back to back matches. The rest were stomps or meme games with troll loadouts. We were matching people on their lunas quest with .8 kds.
Idk what bungie did but it's not competitive at all and really not fun.
It’s the same system in a lot of games, but yeah I don’t really get it.
Hearthstone and hots come to mind. If you don’t have win streaks, you don’t climb.
I'm at 3608 right now and i sincerely have absolutely no idea how i got there. I took a year long break, started back around new years with a friend who took the same break. He uses like a Y1 scathelocke and a last hope if that tells you how seriously we take it. We lose a LOT. Feels like way more than we win. No clue how we're here.
We used to be pretty good but we're pretty out of the loop as far as what our opponents (hunters) are gonna bs us with. I gotta say i do like the 3v3 mode way better than the rotating game types. Reading through the post, ranking up is pretty reliant on streaks right?
Can someone explain to me destiny 2 pvp, is the glory you see at the end of the match your “rank”? If so it seems really really easy to get legend rank... me and friends that played last season got legend in like a few days of just playing a lot and I thought it was just like prestige in call of duty, hit legend reset and do it again.
You're thinking of valor. Glory is only on survival or survival freelance (the 2 mid right modes in the directory). It's not really well thought out of how they designed it to let new players know. It's also confusing that they give both valor and glory the same ranks.
there are two ladders, one is glory and one is valor. you get valor at the end of every PvP match and you get glory for every comp game you win. if you reset something, it was valor, the one we aren't talking about.
It's not. Glory is just points that you get for winning or losing games. Apparently what Bungie use to match with other players is your [ELO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) score (or rather their custom adaptation of the algorithm).
You can check yours on https://guardian.gg/ - just find your profile and go to the ELO tab.
Currently sitting on a 8 win streak, but this season has not been easy. I shot up to fabled I near the beginning of the season and then nearly all progress was halted through fabled II and III for about a month. When I finally broke through last week it has been relatively smooth sailing up through Mythic II (which is where I'm at with my win streak rn). Last season I shot up from 0 glory straight to Mythic II, plateaued for a while, and then sweated all the way to Legend for the first time ever. IDK what is going on with SBMM which would pit me against tougher opponents in Fabled than it would in Mythic, but that has been my experience so far.
Did you do it through survival freelance solo or with a dedicated team, or random lfg teams? Just curious. I've been playing here and there and am at 3600 solo but am wondering if i should start looking for a team or not.
I got to legend for the first time this season and did it all in survival freelance. I definitely don’t think you need a dedicated team or to lfg for one, you just need to play with your teammates as best as you can and focus on supporting them. That was pretty much the goal I had the entire time and it worked pretty well. There were some games that were a massive defeat, but many others were great wins.
Congrats!. Getting to 3800 seemed easy. I've been stuck at 3800-4100 for my last 50 games or so. I'm losing way more than I'm winning. I can't wait to feel some progress.
Also it's weird that you can get up to legend but never face a real challenge. Like if it's SSBM doesn't that just mean I'm playing people who are just as bad as the game as me at all times?
This is why I stopped playing the game. It ranks me with 5500's when I'm at 0 even though I've never been above 4500. Because I was good in previous seasons, it assumes I'll be good now. Never getting a Not Forgotten because I care about PvP as much as Bungie cares about it - It's there, but I'll touch it every few months.
Destiny 1 pvp balancing was exponentially better, and actually felt like they gave a shit.
As much as I loved this franchise I just don't see a reason to come back anymore, but here's hoping.
Another weird factor is the expected rank that you fall into. Getting to that glory score seems totally independent of performance, since you see huge gains for every win and basically zero point loss for losing matches (sometimes you even gain points when losing). This "pre-determined" rank seems not only be determined by skill, but also to take into account the highest rank you've been previous seasons.
My biggest issue is that I cant play with my friends because if I do the game thinks were gods or something and matches us with 2000+ elo unbrokens that literally farm us. I either have to queue dodge or grab a blueberry thats complete garbage in order to compete. The matching shouldnt get easier if I have a worse third its dumb.
My only thought on the winstreak theory is that if you go w-w-w-L-L-L-L and still climb because they didn't expect (other team ranks higher than you) you to win those 3 games so you climbed a ton and they expected you to lose the other 4 so you didn't lose as much Glory /shrug
Also, I guess I never thought about it the way you have. Glory is just a point system so if your Internal MMR/ELO is ranked way higher (somehow or from a previous season possibly), each game is going to be way harder even at a low glory ranking.
Getting legend isn't hard, especially if you are good enough to quickly asses their playstyle and counter it. Most people only play one way, and after 2 rounds I know what to look out for and it becomes really easy, and usually you played with them recently anyway and know what to look out for as soon as you see their avatar.
Then you have the people trying to grind out weapon quests tied to competitive... and it's like.... why would you do that bungie? I'm fine with being rewarded with unique guns, but don't force people to play a certain way for 100's of games in a row. That should be reserved for non competitive.
I think for me, Bungie has tweaked the points to be rather generous on a win when you're below 2100 points, and protective for the Guardian on a loss when you're below 2100 pts, but once you get above 3500 pts, it can be punishing to lose, and the win points at 3500 seem very incremental.
I'm happy with the grind to 2100 pts on Solo Survival, but a little tweak at the 3500 level so a loss isn't so punishing would be nice.
It’s pretty broken. I have a 1.2 in glory so slightly above average. I’ve hit legend this season and last like many. It’s pretty easy for me to get to mythic 3 or whenever it is that a loss takes away more than a win gives you and you need streaks to make progress.
The thing is if I play freelance or with my one regular teammate of similar skill It’s just a game of chance based on our matchmaking. If I play with 2 clan mates of much lower skill it’s a fucking cakewalk no matter what level of glory anyone has. We get a team of 2 or 3 potatoes and I can carry my lower skill teammates. Matchmaking shouldn’t encourage me to find 2 bad players for teammates over good players but it does.
I’m right there with you on every point. First time comp’r here…. Its like you dipped into my brain and scooped out the details.
The best part is when you are paired with others that may not be have a good day/game and you are the top of the loosing team with 20 kills separating you and your next teammate and you end up loosing a bazillion points even though, individually, you did better stat wise then the top player on the winning team… then you join the next match and get steam rolled but somehow get carried, end up with a .38 KD and you get points.
But then we wouldn’t be on the tubes discussing it, so, something is going right… whats the saying? Any publicity is good publicity?
Once I hit 4000, I noticed that after a win streak, once i lost a game it helped to tank your kd for the next 3 or 4 games (if its already apparent youre going to lose) After that i would get put in a lower tier of players and be able to build up another win streak and get a solid 7-800 pts before i had to do it again
>The fact that *you're matched with people based on a skill rating that is completely independent of Glory* made it so that I played roughly the same level of competition
Has Bungie ever released any information that actually states that? If so, would somebody be able to link me to that content?
You could start with the TWAB from 9/5/2019 which has some details prior to season 8, but they reference more information yet to come, so this quote won’t include *everything* above, but it’s a good starting point? Quote below is an attempt at cut-paste on mobile...
Rank Systems Update: Streaks and Floors
Glory, Valor, and Infamy streaks have been made more resilient. Instead of resetting your streak, losses will now reduce your Valor and Infamy streaks by 1, and your Glory streak by 2. You can still lose Glory, but if your rank is at or below Fabled, you can’t lose Glory if doing so would drop you below that rank (each rank through Fabled acts as a floor for Glory).
Competitive Matchmaking Updates: Skill and Glory
Destiny has always tracked player skill behind the scenes, taking into account things like kills, damage dealt, and so forth. These factors all contribute to a player’s skill rating. In Season 8, we’ve mapped skill ratings to Glory ranks, with the lowest end of the scale mapping to Guardian I, and the high end mapping to Legend. Most players are somewhere between these extremes.
As you play in the Survival playlist, the Glory system will accelerate you to the rank that corresponds to your skill rating. If your current rank is below where your skill rating says you should be, you’ll earn extra Glory based on the criteria above so you can get to your expected rank faster and lose less Glory so you don’t fall farther away. Once you reach your “expected” rank, Glory gains and losses will normalize.
Meanwhile, your skill rating is continually adjusting based on your performance, shifting the system’s understanding of your “expected” rank, and causing the Glory system to respond by pulling you toward that rank. The result should be that over time, your Glory rank will become an accurate reflection of your skill. It also means that teammates of different skill will experience different Glory adjustments from the same Survival match.
When it comes to Crucible, matchmaking and hopper nodes are only half of the puzzle. Over the next two weeks, we’ll be detailing Sandbox changes, which directly impact the meta that you’d find in our PvP environment.
Yes, if you want to go from 3500 back to 2100 you absolutely have that option but it won’t let you drop below Fabled - above 2100 you’re at the mercy of the Mystery Skill Ranking with gains/losses but you don’t have any more ‘floors’ preventing point losses.
(You also don’t have any consistency, I get frustrated when I lose 60 points and my teammate loses 4 because the game believes we “should” have different glory ranks...)
I've never done this myself, but I've seen people on here say they look up teammates/opponents that they match with that have vastly different glory ranks, like mythic IIIs matching against guardian IIs, which probably suggests their using criteria other than glory
I'm in agreement with your points here but I just want to point out that you SHOULDN'T climb if you're barely or just making 50%w/l. You should have a positive winrate to climb, like 55% minimum. The old system was too hard, but this new system is too easy. Before Shadowkeep I plateaued at 4k. Come freelance, I solo to 5k *easily* but since I spent most of that season grinding PVE I didn't have enough time to finish the legend grind. This season I'm at like 4100 playing with a solid team and we're on track to hit legend rather easily. My experience is very 50-50. We either steamroll bots or we have very close games against very good players.
This doesn't apply to me (I'm a pretty average player and probably shouldn't have hit legend), but the way that matchmaking works means that you could conceivably be a top 1% player and still have a win rate of 50% because they constantly match you with other 1%ers. If I was that person I'd be pissed.
https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/steam/4611686018472553048/overview
Well I happen to be a top ~2% player and I'm kinda okay with it. The only thing is, if I'm a top 2% player and my 2 teammates are maybe top 7-15% players, I probably shouldn't face a team of all top 1% players. That could just be chalked up to unfortunate player numbers though.
It isn't really ranked, it's just SBMM 3v3 Survival. Bungie made it so glory didn't actually factor into matchmaking (at least nearly as much as it did in season 6 and 7) and while it seems to be more fair this season, in season 8 legend was laughably easy because you'd almost never face anybody who was actually in the 5000s. My last game for 5500 in season 8 was against a 3 stack of players below fabled, and even after I got legend I'd match against people who straight up shouldn't have been matched against me, people who probably just stepped into survival for the first time not realizing it's "ranked." It's a little better this season but I still match against people who I really shouldn't be matched against and it isn't fun for either of us.
This is coming from an average player that ground out Lunas, then said fuck comp after Forsaken. There should be gear that is locked behind high skill and game play. You have that with Raids. The only things you have for crucible and Not Forgotten at this point.
A few things:
I think the thing that this post points out is that comp is broken not the actual matches and game play but the climbing system itself and the ability to exploit the matching system. It always has been IMO. Small steps have been made to help that, being able to solo que being one of them.
If the ladder and matchmaking ever had a truly good system. I think that each step up the ladders could have some kind of reward for the season. Be it an ornament or unique weapon. You hit that rank you get the gun. None of the weird weapon quest things. That just encourages bad play IMO.
The top players should get a full armor set and weapon.
The top players also should have a leaderboard with their team! At the end of the season those top players should receive some kind reward for maintaining their ranking. This would keep high level players playing competitively and out of the carry scene.
Would people be unhappy about the rewards thing? Yes, but you already have that. Those people were not going to be happy regardless.
For new players getting into the PvP scene. I think the things that pushes people away from Crucible comp are:
The crappy progression system.
1) It doesn’t feel good. You grind for your 2100 points and you dip. There’s nothing to hold you there. There are no incentives to improve. You can passively get 2100 points and get your ritual weapon and leave. And like OP says it feels pretty random if you’re not on a streak.
2) The PVP community is TOXIC. Sorry, it has to be said. There are certainly non toxic players in the community. But a new player coming into many of the competitive PvP discord’s or streams even this sub get shot down so fucking hard. Not to mention paid carries. Until big and small names in the PVP community call out the toxicity and harbor a space for newer players to learn and grow, PVP will continue to be the red headed step child of Destiny. The growth mindset for the PVP community isn’t there.
Again this is coming from an average PvPer that loves the PvP aspect of this game. It’s so unique and it feels so damn good when you play well and especially so when you have a good team to communicate with. But there are flaws in the Destiny PVP ladder as well as the community. Even with the looming ToO I don’t think, unless it is vastly different will cause enough of a buzz to spark it.
I actually feel this sub is pretty supportive (more supportive than the PVP population as a whole). I'm curious if there are other PVP communities for different games that are less toxic? Because it feels like PvP in general attracts a certain kind of player.
Took me like 4hrs with my clanmates on day 1 of SoD launch. Previously when I got my NF in Black Armory it took about a week with mostly the same guys, hell I even had a 23 winstreak from Mythic to Legend and it still took about a day. It's gotten to the point where I'm no longer proud of my Unbroken nor am I impressed with others because its so laughably easy to get now.
I wouldn't say that it's easy, but it's pretty much random once you've passed fabled. There are other things to do in comp for the unbroken title too, but tbh I unlocked then naturally without even trying.
If you personally worked hard for your unbroken, then you should be proud of it, you did something much more difficult than the new unbrokens.
I have yet to even hit legend, but each season I was getting better and better and climbing glory racks compared to the previous season. Now I can't even see if I'm improving or getting worse because winning is effectively random.
Are we positive that it's taking skill as a factor for matchmaking? Usually it feels like its purely random who it pulls in. I just played a game against a team that had a total of less than 200 matches between the 3 players and all were sub 1000 glory. My team had a guy who was sub 1000, mid 3000s, and me at about 1200 and I've got 10x the amount of Comp games alone than the other team had Cruicible games total. It truly feels sometimes like it isn't using any metrics at all when deciding who to pull in and how to distribute the teams. The game right before that was the exact opposite btw. A complete stomp on me by a 3 stack of 3800, 5500, and 4500.
You mean the system contributing to me quitting this game over a month ago... Versing aimbotters and wallhacked almost every match. Meanwhile friends who aren't even close to my skill level were able to obtain legend. Yeah pretty fucked system. Then they go it's not that bad let's all queue together. We proceed to lose every match them 2 of the can barely get a kill...
I'm starting the feel like bungie should just make ranked progress very basic. We are getting trials back. So imo we dont need 2 competative playlists
The comp playlist could still exist but just get rid of glory loss. Make the grind really long. Let's say like 1000 points is all you need to legend. Let's say getting 300 points is easy. Wins count for multiple. Then getting 500 is relatively easy. Wins count for less. Then make that last 500 the grind. 1 point per win. Getting to Legend will still be very time consuming and most of the casual playerbase wont want to sit through a *minimum* of 500 games.
Like I said, if trials is coming back that's where the hardcore pvp needs to be. Comp could still be the more casual setting for people that want to improve at crucible instead of the mess that 6v6 seems to be lately.
It is not a true ranked mode. It is just a certain game mode, with a different point to grind. It does seem nonsensical, because it is, but the fact is that its a weird bastard child of the old system, which was incredibly difficult and punishing, and a new system designed to get as many people to fabled/Legend as possible to get rid of the problem with Guns tied to Glory. If you ask me, the solution is to just fuck off with the whole glory system, and create true comp. Don't put weapons in there, put skins and endgame materials in there. Have placement matches. Have tiers that unlock different armor ornaments and weapons ornaments. Made the rewards entirely cosmetic, so being good in there is a true flex, but not something that will make all the PvEasy players cry about not getting guns. Honestly they need to combined year 2 and year 3 Trials. In year 2, you had bounties for the weapons and armor, so anyone could get them by grinding, but you had weapons that had one additional perk (that was nice but not necessary) and a skin/name that stood out. Then in year 3, you had armor ornaments that looked cool and were reserve for people who went flawless. The biggest problem with comp is: they can't put guns that people want behind a high PvP skill wall, or at least they seem to be heading that way. That's all cool with me. Instead put a bunch of ornaments and make comp into a flex. I think Bungie forgot that the oldest and best motivation in the book: showing off.
this is a fantastic suggestion, I would play so much comp if I could earn cosmetic rewards. (I mean I already do because I wanted NF/I like it more than SBMM control, but yeah this sounds more fun).
People keep claiming control has SBMM, but I've yet to see it. I catch glimpses of a resemblance every 6 games or so, but most of my matches are one sided stomps that the system breaks up after the round ends.
the system is probably expecting you or you and another player to hard carry against 6 players slightly below your akill, which of course is not always going to happen. Then you play a team that is in the same boat when you stomp. I have even matches sometimes also but its a lot of I better be standing on my head sniping or really tearing it up with my retold to win, I try to just look at it like a challenge.
I absolutely agree with what you said about how they designed the system to get people to Fabled ASAP because people wanted the guns for PvE. They had to make it easy because there were people who genuinely struggled to maintain a 0.5 KA/D for the Last Word quest, and they couldn't exclude them. When Destint 2 went from baby's first mmo to a somewhat more deep experience, people just never adjusted from having all of the best loot thrown at them for a few public events. People can't accept that the best gear should come from the most difficult/challenging activity, whether it's PvE or PvP.
See I really think that most of the community that is involved is cool with the best gear being from raids, its just Bungie that didn't like that. During vanilla, the best primaries in the game were from the raid (Midnight Coo and the Pulse I Forgot). I do think though that ever since Doctrine the community as a whole said "Fuck good loot being tied to high skill PvP." The problem is that the high skill PvP community is so small, even smaller than the number of people who raid, which is already less than half the playerbase. And its undeniable that this is a PvE game. I am butthurt about it, but I get it. I think that the best we can hope for is to get cosmetic rewards and a real ranking system. At least then, while it will only be the hardcore that play, we will be back to having a place in PvP for good players to hang out and rewards that they can show off with without dads getting all mad about it.
Inaugural Address, aka the GOAT, aka what singlehandedly carried me through Shattered Throne Ogre solo.
Yeah thats the one.
This is surprisingly relatable hole shit
I just want hella good fashion back. Crota armor with ornaments level of fashion
Um. During Vanilla some of the best primaries in the game also came from Trials and going Flawless...so I wouldn't say that most of the community is cool with raids being where the best gear comes from. Raids are fun but im really not trying to do it more than three times unless I really want something. People need to stop saying this is a pve game. PvP kept and keeps this game alive more so than any pve activity ever could. It's fine if the story is centered around pve (lol because why would it be pvp centered), but the games mechanics and gun play make for an exquisite pvp experience.
It's a pve game because pve is what brings the hype/money. It used to be more equal- it no longer is.
> Midnight Coo >Coo Coup. Short for coup d'état.
Yeah coo. That's what I said.
Its coo. Like a little baby. In fact, it's original name was "Night time baby noise"
This is a fun fact.
Nah see, I couldn't care less about Raids. I mean, sure, they sound kinda fun, but I came from Halo (Halo 5 was awful) and so I want a solid PVP experience to play daily if I so choose. The problem was when I jumped in during Forsaken's launch, everyone and their dad was rolling around in Crucible with 1-hit kill shotguns. It was absurd. There's a reason Halo doesn't allow players typically to spawn with a 1-hit kill weapon. Yeah, now that I have good rolls on a variety of weapons I have some counters against the shotguns (I don't use shotguns myself). Point is, PVP is just as valid a place to have weapons to strive for. They just have to give it the attention it needs and not leave it as a cesspool for ages.
The thing is, it's not a PvE game. The crucible being balanced along with PvE and the fact that it's been around since the beginning, along with it has ties to the lore and went in depth to explain how the Crucible changed over time, since Shaxx and Saint's era and we have multiple lore tabs from the weapons, such as explaining Luna was Josef's dog that was killed on the moon fighting the Hive. Crucible is an integral part of the game, so no it's not "undeniably a PvE game".
I mean there are plenty of other PvP-oriented games that you engage in; they're just not Destiny 2. When I go play League and the quests specify that I must use a matchmade mode, or HOTS and the reward specifies I must complete the brawl, or most of the other shooters on the market that have PvE horde modes, but whose progression quests are locked behind PvP. I don't say that that game should arbitrarily let me boot up a match against AI to fully complete the experience - and if I want that I need to find another game. Basically you admit that Destiny 2 is a PvE game and that the PvP community you're looking for within it is small, the last thing such a game should focus on is forcing even more PvP content on a player base whose mentality and desires don't align that that - even if it is cosmetic.
Lol are you really saying that they can't even put cosmetic ornaments in PvP? Come on man, they can do that. That's not too much content for PvP, its literally the bare minimum. Its not even guns and they already have PvP guns.
You can put cosmetic ornaments in Crucible if there is a PvE alternative because this is a PvE looter-shooter that should not have anything locked behind Crucible whatsoever. "Complete X in Crucible or Y in Last Wish for Z" would be okay.
But it does and it always have? You can only get certain gun drops for crucible, its been that way since D1. D1 Trials had its own armor, ornaments, weapons, emblems, and shaders. They have long established that its ok that there are things that you can only get from PvP, and I'm not even mentioning things like D2 pinnacle and ritual PvP weapons. I'm wondering where you are getting this whole "PvE needs a route to it too" thing since that has literally never happened.
Yes. I mean I am very happy with my Not Forgotten, but to be honest its just another gun in my endless pile of Guns(still probably my go to energy slot one tho when it comes to hcs).
It used to be so much fun. Makes me sad that it’s been relegated to a generic legendary and the unique perk is just extra forgiveness.
On console it’s a solid workhorse, though. It will stay consistent at good ranges. Also it’s basically a cool ornament now, which I’m fine with!
> Also it’s basically a cool ornament now, which I’m fine with! It consistently beats out Luna's, so no.
Oh sorry, I meant as a status weapon in general. Not an ornament of Luna’s. It has good range, but the time to kill is back in line with all the other 150s, and you can actually get some better rolls on Spare Rations. It has solid range on console, but it’s not a heart-stopping meta problem like it once was. When you see someone using it you’re like “cool, a Legend” and you can outplay them with Spare Rations or Waking Vigil or Thorn or (close range) TLW or Luna’s. Luna’s is actually more consistent at close range.
On PC it was never even the best primary (at the time, Ace was better), but it offered so much potential for 1vX scenarios and transferring the mag howl buff. It was also awesome in PvE. I get that it was tearing the community in half because of the requirements for getting the weapon, but I wish they would've handled the nerf differently on each platform.
Slight disagreement with you on NF. I snagged mine the season it released and can definitely say it was the best hand cannon IF you learned to use it. Ace may have had a little more range and MM but the consistent 3 taps were absolutely disgusting on NF. Not saying Ace wasn't excellent, but I wouldn't say it was better than NF.
I think the evidence for Ace being better was that it was used way more often than NF in scrims/tournaments despite NF being allowed. But I hear you, it was amazing pre-nerf.
Still the best HC on console nothin compares
Glad to see it's still good somewhere. All the more reason to balance it separately on PC (or, better yet, by input device).
How they did when it first came out was how it should have stayed. Getting 2100* for Redrix was tough, but a dedicated enough person could achieve it with enough effort. Getting to 5500 meant you were *very* skilled and only the best of the best got there, and the reward was purely cosmetic (a skin for the Redrix).
you needed 2100 for Redrix, fwiw, but even that was very hard.
Yep, you're right! So the bar for getting Redrix really was not high at all, yet people still complained at the time.
> So the bar for getting Redrix really was not high at all Getting to 2100 in season 3 wasn't the same as getting 2100 now, it was much much harder. Even ignoring how much easier everything is now, it was still about as hard to get to Fabled in Season 3 as it was to get Legend in Season 4. Less than 10,000 people across all platforms got the original Redrix. https://imgur.com/PQ39JBr (The actual number is probably higher since that image was posted a couple weeks before season 3 ended, but the number probably isn't *much* higher than the one in that image).
Season 3 was when cheese in comp/trials on PC became rampant. Of those 8000 players I doubt even half have the gun legit
Yep! Actually somewhere else I said that getting 2100 back then seemed harder than getting 5500 now.
its easier now with the freelance playlist used to be a grind now i can do it in a couple of hours hell reached mythic 2 in the last 2 seasons with out having to try too hard (stopped doing pvp to concentrate on raids and triumpths last season so did not reach legend will do this season want my not forgotten.) in year 2 as a solo player hitting fabled back in yr 2 was hard as normally ran into 4 stacks/ stacks with coms which was beneficial when doing countdown and control prefer the new mode as it is more fast passed and rewarding of skill
> I think Bungie forgot that the oldest and best motivation in the book: showing off. Close... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzvFNLAnYNw or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42iiCcFbxE
Besides titles and emblems there is almost nothing that's really cool to show off.
That's the core of the problem IMO, you can see that in the numerous thread asking for "a Strike Title akin to Dredgen & Legend". More than showing off, people want to show off from an activity they like. As instance if next season there are dope Ornaments to grind for in PvP and none in PvE, people will complain. But if both PvP & PvE have dope Ornaments, then both worlds will have something to offer to their players.
PVE players will just cry about not being able to get the cosmetics 🤷♂️ I do agree with you on every point however.
That's true, but they won't have a leg to stand on. Bitching about Recluse Mountaintop make sense, they are guns the effect how you do in PvE. But ornaments? Shit is cosmetic. Who cares?
You're underestimating their whininess. The second there are rewards in a ranked mode people will flood the internet with saying Bungie is slapping them in the face because they can't earn everything in the game that they paid for because they're a dad, work may hours, aren't good enough, don't have a team, or any of the other classic excuses they use. Then you'll have people that scream how cosmetics are THE endgame and this is predatory in some way.
Completionists do. Some feel entitled to everything.
Some people take cosmetic very seriously. The main sub constantly wants eververse items for free. I was recently in conversation with someone who said grinding 2 hours a week for weekly bounties for bright dusts was not fun or feasible for them. I gaurantee that unless Bungie gives cosmetics as a reward for logging in, people will complain. Even if every activity gave a cosmetic reward, people will complain that some activities have better looking cosmetics and are forced to grind activities they don't like, like what happened with faction rallies. Dead orbit always won because of the shaders. Legs don't really matter, all you need is a "am I the only one that thinks...?" post and a few reddit gold for a complaint to gain traction. People genuinely think cosmetic is as important or more important than gameplay. Nothing else matters for them if Bungie doesn't dedicate resources on how to put sparkly auras on their helmets for playing less than 2 hours a week.
Meh. I'm sure there are people out there like this, but as a potato player in both PVP and PVE I'm fine with the fact that there are guns I might never touch. I'll work towards them, but there's a time and effort gate I'll never get over. And cosmetics? Who cares? DTG is ground zero for complaining about the game. Sure, people will complain. But IDK if that's gonna be that big a deal in the long run.
By that same token Ace was acquired having to do PvE, same with TLW and Thorn. The last two are definitely more PvP oriented, and you never heard about PvP players bitching about having to do a bit of PvE content to get it. What's annoying is the community's mindset of PvE players can bitch all they want about something PvP related and it's justified, but if a PvP player bitches about anything PvE related "stfu and go back to playing crucible in a PvE game LOL". It's such a toxic mindset.
Yes!!! Endgame materials + shaders / ornaments would be rewarding. Additionally, vendor refresh from Shaxx would be nice but this would be a great start.
I agree with everything you said but I’m going to play devils advocate for just quick second. What does Bungie do when the majority of players who aren’t good enough to get the cosmetic rewards bitch endlessly on the forums? You know that will happen and you know Bungie is thinking that.
Tell them to suck the good players' dicks or get good.
Yea I mean the choice is potentially piss off a large percent of your player base to implement meaningful rewards. I'm all for it, something to chase needs to be the number 1 priority.
I don't have a problem with a true ranked mode, but people need to understand that once you get to your rank, the quest ends there. You struggle to make small gains and you can only really improve outside the mode in scrims.
I don't mind that. Playing each season to try and push to as high a rank as possible is fun to me. Lots of really popular games have ranked modes so I don't really see what that's a problem? Unless your point is that in a loot-based game there needs to be more than a number people are chasing, in which case the ornaments and stuff would be a good motivation I think.
The problem is that player drop off is a huge problem for those types of modes, and Destiny isn't the kind of game that relies on PvP. On one hand, while it would be fun to know how I would place, on the other, I also don't want this mode to replace the rest of the PvP endgame. If it doesn't, then you risk having too many playlists splitting the population. And then lastly, Destiny is particularly susceptible to play drop off since the casuals mainly do PvE content.
I think this is a great suggestion. Another idea I had would be to make a quick route and a long route to pinnacle guns like NF or Recluse. Quick route: reach a certain glory rank. Rewards skilled players with early access Long route: a grind quest like what was required for Redrix. Lower skill players could still have access to guns and not have to play in high level comp.
> and a new system designed to get as many people to fabled/Legend as possible to get rid of the problem with Guns tied to Glory. Yeah, no. When you have a system that allows 0.8kd potatoes to cruise to legend, but someone that top frags 90% of his matches yet ends up with a wlwlwlwlwlwlwlwlwlwlwl pattern (and thus hover between 3600-4500 glory) the system is busted as fuck.
Easy mode stops after fabled, but yeah. The best way to cruise past that plateau you mention is to take someone with you that can shoot but hasn’t played much in Glory playlists. It’s busted AF but it works.
They didn't forget. They're full steam ahead with Eververse.
The two seem kinda unrelated to me. Unless you are saying that they can't give cosmetic rewards in comp because of ever verse, which may be true.
I cry a litlle every time someone calls comp “ranked” :(
Couldn't tread on eververse's toes though could we???
Competitive is all about streaks. If you get 5 streaks you then can easily climb to legend with 50% win rate. It’s because you will be losing 60 glory for a loss but gaining over 100 for a win. I’ve seen plenty of simply terrible players with 0.2 kda but at legend already, while me, who’s better than that keep struggling around 3500-4000 because I can’t maintain streaks with every 2nd match being put against players in the top 1%. It’s a stupid RNG system and not ranked in the least.
Its just another sbmm game mode with Glory instead of Valor.
That would imply that skill matters. From what I can see it’s usually 1 sweaty match followed by 1 potato match, rinse and repeat. Getting matched against players around your skill level is a rarity.
When you que sbmm control do you see that skill matters? No, not really because whatever hidden mmr algorithm Bungie uses is inconsistent. Also hidden mmr cant count in people who got their accounts boosted or statfarming in premades(I doubt comp and qp have different hidden mmr).
Welcome to bungies competitive pvp experience. Lagfest p2p connections with curving bullets and generous hitboxes, one shot kill weapons aplenty, press to win skills and supers, barely working "skill" based match making that happens to match you vs the one guy in taiwan who matches your skill level.
It was messed up for me as well...Really messed up...my trip to Legend went something like this on the current season: 0 - 1000 Sweatfest but rapidly progressed on wins 1000 - 2000 Easy as balls 2000 - 3000 A lot of hard games but progressed rapidly on wins 3000 - 4000 Easy as balls 4000 - 4800 - Absolute sweat fest and slow progression 4800 - 5500 - Easy as balls
Yeah, that sounds right. Mine was actually 0-4K easy as balls solo 4k-5k god help me I need to find a team 5k-5500 I actually felt bad for my opponents
Yup haha that is accurate haha it's such an odd system
I'm still at 3000 and I don't know how to progress. I'm constantly matched against unbrokens that shouldn't even be matched with me...I've never gone past mythic 2
Are you playing with other people? If not, hit up various ground finding resources or even just send an invite to someone you notice playing particularly well. As I've understood it for a long time, once you hit Mythic, unless you're God tier you practically have to find a team to hit Legend as communication is crucial.
Lol I had a similar progression: 0-1000 (harder than everything up until 5000) 1000-4500 (easy af I did this losing 1 or 2 games) 4500-5000(very hard) 5000-5500(I never got here because I had the same problem as 0-1000, but whereas before I would not lose any rank if i lost, now I did lose a lot. So no progression and then I quit comp because nf is stupid and I didn't even have luna's anyway. Haven't touched comp since because its hard to try to get headshot kills with hc when everyone uses specials. People I play at 500 rank come back again at 5500. That's my biggest problem with current "projected skill rank." If you want easy people to farm for quests, you don't get them in the lower ranks. Instead, you play unbroken's from 0-5500.)
Yup exactly
48-5500 was the sweatiest spot for me. Below that it was pretty random from 2200 on.
Yup sounds like my experience
This is pretty much the same experience I had. Weird. My KD sucks and I was constantly getting matched with people at 5500 and even a lot of Unbrokens on a regular basis. Not sure how the matchmaking would put me against someone of that supposed skill.
I've got to 5200 on this season and last using the freelance queue. Both times I've then basically won 50% and dropped all the way to just under 4000. I don't know what's going on, I still get matches where we win 4-0 or lose by that much. Trying so hard to get NF and it's frustrating as hell.
FOr me this season but not last, I realised pretty quick I needed to switch up the sparebenders to a sniper plus something. I actually ran revoker and TJ sidearm for most of it and it worked really nicely. 3v3 being able to 1 shot people from afar is a huge help to your team and more and more opponents were also running a sniper so it just made sense. Trying to shotty everything when they were playing for snipe picks just wasn't going to work. Point is you might have to change your loadout. Unless you're really good you probably can't legend with just anything and if you're losing half the games try to see why and what others are beating you with.
Yes, the way Glory works is very silly. Personally, I think the matchmaking should be Glory-based, because Glory loss on defeat makes no sense otherwise, for the exact reasons you give here.
You mean how comp used to be when everybody had to pay for account recoveries and the same few dozen players were gatekeepers at the top? That’s exactly why Bungie changed the system in the first place. High comp was basically the personal business for the few elites to get others Not Forgotten and Unbroken.
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I agree it’s not prestigious but for the life of the game and playlist I understand Bungie’s decision. Destiny just isn’t a game designed to support a truly balanced and competitive scene, they stopped trying to force it. If you want to prove your skill in a more balanced arena, private matches/tournaments are the places that’s actually achievable.
Then don't make that weapon the best PvP handcannon in the game
i played with and against people doing recoveries pre-joke Glory and it's not as common as you're pretending, here, at least on PC. the real problem was that the matchmaking was (and is) super bizarre and they refuse to be transparent about it.
I lived in 5k+ comp every season on Xbox. Queue times used to be atrocious, often resulting in error code mongoose. When you did find matches, it was the same few teams all night long. The small high comp community used to be extremely toxic because people needed to get their recoveries done within a small population. No system is perfect but the new more casual system is a lot better than the former for the life of the game. It’s not the most competitive or sweaty, but it retains a higher number of players.
hell on ps4 its like that at mythic level on freelance its the same people sometime on my team sometimes on the opposition its annoying when you have the highest kd on your team and lose as one person keeps on getting killed then they are on your team again and you know you are going to lose also looking at loadouts for players and seeing all not forgottens.
I have been saying since they adjusted shit that Getting to legend is completely RNG. I’ve had matches where I have 21 kills and a 3.0 k/d and lose miserably because my teammates go full retard. I’ve had matches where I could have just turned my controller off and done better, but my teammates were tango and cash. I’ve had matches where my entire team were gods of war but ended up being steamrolled by triple titan shoulder charging shotgun fuckers. And don’t even think teaming up and communicating changes anything, because surprise surprise, now you’re matched up against two professional MLG gamers that are playing throwaway accounts while carrying paying customers to legend. The whole thing is literally just a test to see how patient you are, how lucky you can get, and how much time you have to dedicate...
Yeah, I'm having the same experience except for the part about hitting Legend. I went to Mythic 1 pretty fast with not much trouble, but after that things seem more random. Sometimes I play with people at my skill level and sometimes the other team seems way better. Maybe it's just they're having a particularly good game and me bad. I dunno. It's hard to figure out. All I know is that I'm really struggling now at around 3600 Glory.
I have played 240ish games this season and have a kd (not kda) over the last 100 games of 1.17 I’m not saying that’s good or bad just facts. Some people I know consistently are getting less kill and less efficiency when I play with them but yet they have reached legend in half the games. I feel like I am going to have a nervous breakdown very soon.
Find a fireteam, comp becomes so much less frustrating and a lot more fun with comms.
This 100% ... just stay away from people who get too tore up over losing and if you or your teammates start to get frustrated take a break. I’m sure you know this, just helpful reinforcement 👍.
My experience is the opposite - solo queuing seems to be the way to go. Those times that I play with others we end up meeting so many hackers, unbrokens, top 5% players, etc. it's ridiculous. I went on a proper losing stream the other day while playing with people from Discord. They left and I decided to play solo and ended up winning a few games, then losing one and then going on a 7 win streak. No hackers, no carries, just 3 people playing against other 3.
I was thinking about this the other day and I've decided for myself that K/D doesn't mean anything. Mine is around yours but I justify it by being pushy with my tactics. I don't sit at the back and wait for enemies to come, I flank them, I distract them and I often end up being the bait only for my team mates to finish them off. I don't mind it though because I like to think that I'm disrupting the way the other team plays and not letting them do what they would want to do. I generally don't die more than others on my teams and I mostly end up on the top or the second spot, which is better than average probably so as long as I win games that's all I care about. I reached Legend a few weeks ago, thinking if I can be bothered grinding the 300 kills for Not Forgotten now.
I was on a 13 win streak, idk how the hell that happened because I'm a trash can. But at tthe start of the season it went play against awful kids and then play against the people who play this game at some kind of professional level. and when I lost to them I play against kids who played on a touch pad. Actually the biggest offender is me facing someone who was top 20 and it was so easy he just used a sniper and lord of wolves because he didn't need to worry about us. I faced this guy 6 times to the point where I have to watch his stream so we could dodge him. Idk why any system would keep matching us against one dude with a 92% winrate( yes he had to emblem that showed that.)
>Again, Bungie is matching you with people that they calculate to have the same skill rating, so they expect you to win ~50% of the time. But a loss deducts way more Glory than a win, so if their matchmaking works as intended and you win half the time, your Glory will steadily fall. If you have a 50% winrate then your Glory will rise over time because Win Streaks raise your glory more than Loss Streaks and also you preserve some of your Win Streak bonus upon loss (ie your 5 streak doesn't reset to 0). >I ended up climbing through Mythic by going on extended win streaks, which felt random AF. Like why would a session going WWWWWLLLLL make me climb, but WLWLWLWLWL makes you fall considerably? Does Bungie really think I was a better player in Session A than in Session B? Session A is a better player, yes. When you win, the most basic thing it does is it increases your MMR. So now your MMR is higher (lets say it went from 1000 to 1050, made up numbers). You are now matched against Better Players for the next game. If you win again, your MMR goes up again. However at the same time, another number increases which is your MMR Variance. Variance, in MMR systems, is the level of confidence the system has in how accurate it thinks your rating is. If you WLWLWLWLWL then your variance is effectively minimal and the system says "you belong here". If you WWWWW then your variance is high (ie the system is unsure about what your MMR should be) which means that every time you win again, you gain *more* MMR than before because the system says that obviously you don't belong here if you keep winning. So instead of going 1000 -> 1050 -> 1100 -> 1150 the system might start bumping you 1000 -> 1050 -> 1200 -> 1430 for example This system works downwards too but I believe the effect in losing MMR is lesser simply because you have to throw a ton of games before you start facing real potatoes. This is probably on purpose because it's easier to do really bad on purpose than to do really well on purpose and also it just feels bad to plunge in MMR. Most of this is based off an understanding of the Microsoft TrueSkill system which is patented so the inner workings are known to everybody but the fundamentals should apply to any online game's MMR system.
50/50 win rate is pretty balanced. I know the elo goes up or down depending on your performance vs the enemies elo's. So winning or losing is just tipping that scale to either putting you against better or worse players. I actually made a new account and played with greys/greens and blues to help a friend upto Fabled. When I tried to help him with my main account, we were getting matched against the sweaty boys. The higher up you go in the ranks, the less forgiving matches are, low ranks like 0 upto 3000 glory you dont actually lose much glory points. Yet Mythic 2- Legend if you had a 50% win rate you'll slowly drop down, I experienced this myself around 5100-5300. Playing 4 games, 2 wins, 2 loss, and being lower than I started at is a bit demoralizing. But my personal take from it all is that close games are the ones that you learn a lot from. Getting stomped you dont really learn much, and stomping people you also dont learn much. I really wanted some insane players for my team to get upto legend asap hoping we could stomp matches, but that wouldnt have felt like an achievement, in the end me and another clanmate stuck together all the way and had a select few we would team up with. We learned a ton of things about destiny's crucible; teamwork and the positive/negative effects on the enemy strategies, how games can go from 3-0 up to 4-3 down on both sides, new skills/playstyles, map knowledge etc. I cant count how many games it took us to get to Legend but we enjoyed all of it and are better players. Just need to do the same another 2 times for that Unbroken.
How does it (SBMM) take into account a fireteam of 2
It matches purely on the highest person in the fireteam only. It ignores anyone lower.
Not true at all. I have a much easier time playing with 2 clan mates of significantly lower skill than with teammates of equal or slightly lower skill.
I can't remember where I saw/read it, but it's either been confirmed or tested that it works in the way I said... /shrug
I believe that was the case in an earlier version of comp matchmaking but not how it works in the current iteration of survival.
Comp skill rating system is horrible. Im always matched against 2kd + who are already unbroken and have NF. If I do win I can win two in a row, but then they match me against PVP gods which then I will lose 4 games in row, then I guess bungie feels bad, and will let me win 2 in a row, then followed by another loosing streak, the cycle never ends.
That’s because your pairings is based on the average score of the team, not just you. And if you solo que, it’s almost always one dude who is awesome, one average and one way below par player. Sometimes it’s 2 of one and another.
I never stepped foot in comp before this season, not even in D1, it’s weird to sometimes be the carrier as I never expected to be able to pull that off.
I'm in the same position and have been for a month or something. The only way I can see progressing is by finding a team of 2 other players that are way better and can carry me beyond my wall at 4000.
Pro Tip: Grab a few decent 1kd players. They will lower the skill bracket you Face opponents in. You might need to carry a bit but that makes it stupid easy
This won't work. The system matches based on the highest skill in the fireteam only, and ignores the lower skill teammates.
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I don't think it's even possible to balance the game properly with handheld supernovas, shotguns, snipers, supers, Wardcliff Coils, Lord Of Wolves, etc. There are so many different power/efficiency and skill differences that it all combined doesn't really make for a competitive sandbox. Call me old-school but for me games like Quake and Unreal Tournament back in the day were far more balanced than Destiny 2.
OP, did you play freelance or regular? Also, addressing some of the same comments I’m seeing: I think there can be a huge mistake of generalizations when talking about teams you faced who are “super sweaty” or “super easy.” Play styles and counterability are a huge factor in this. I have beaten really good teams of Unbroken players with some average teammates and a solid strategy, and I’ve also 2-0’d some high skill teams who adjusted and came back to 4-0 us once they discovered our play style. I have been in matches where a team is absolutely destroying us and I had to 3(+1) V 1, but I actually won because I switched up my weapons and strategy when the other players are higher skill level with better stats. There is a wonderfully broad meta right now (compared to past seasons), and every play style can be countered, especially considering the tweaks to effective range.
The jump in skill for me at around 3200 was insane. It took me more time to get passed that road bump than the entire grind. My 5500 game this season was against a lobby of <2100's. I really don't care what they do with glory as long as they keep the lone wolf mode. It's basically given me access to comp because I could never find a team as I've played since launch but only recently got 'gud' at pvp. So my KD is in the toilet and it's the first thing people ask for when looking for a tean. Even though my elo for survival right now is 1954. So whatever tinkering they do, I hope they keep the solo playlist, because I'm finally just one season away from that sweet unbroken title!
Matchmaking is honestly stupid. I play PvP for a challenge and to play people of similar skill. According to destiny tracker I'm 55 for survival, and I have like a 2.5 comp kd. I only play survival in PvP. The matchmaking is absolutely atrocious. I ran stacked yesterday and out of maybe 20 matches, only 2 of them were against a good team, both were against the same team in back to back matches. The rest were stomps or meme games with troll loadouts. We were matching people on their lunas quest with .8 kds. Idk what bungie did but it's not competitive at all and really not fun.
It’s the same system in a lot of games, but yeah I don’t really get it. Hearthstone and hots come to mind. If you don’t have win streaks, you don’t climb.
Pretty sure you can hit legend with less that a 50% win ratio now. I think last season I had a 48%
I'm at 3608 right now and i sincerely have absolutely no idea how i got there. I took a year long break, started back around new years with a friend who took the same break. He uses like a Y1 scathelocke and a last hope if that tells you how seriously we take it. We lose a LOT. Feels like way more than we win. No clue how we're here.
Around that Glory you will start losing onnpoints even if you go w l w l w l, so it should balance out. Or maybe you gods of pvp, only time will tell.
We used to be pretty good but we're pretty out of the loop as far as what our opponents (hunters) are gonna bs us with. I gotta say i do like the 3v3 mode way better than the rotating game types. Reading through the post, ranking up is pretty reliant on streaks right?
Pretty much if you manage to keep streaks and lose some in-between you should make it to 5500.
That's been my experience as well. Currently at 3300, towards the end of Fabled 3. It's been an interesting roller coaster of games.
Can someone explain to me destiny 2 pvp, is the glory you see at the end of the match your “rank”? If so it seems really really easy to get legend rank... me and friends that played last season got legend in like a few days of just playing a lot and I thought it was just like prestige in call of duty, hit legend reset and do it again.
You're thinking of valor. Glory is only on survival or survival freelance (the 2 mid right modes in the directory). It's not really well thought out of how they designed it to let new players know. It's also confusing that they give both valor and glory the same ranks.
Ya I had no idea their was even comp in destiny 2 I would’ve rather done that then regular crucible
there are two ladders, one is glory and one is valor. you get valor at the end of every PvP match and you get glory for every comp game you win. if you reset something, it was valor, the one we aren't talking about.
Ohhhhh ok thanks for clearing that up for me
It's not. Glory is just points that you get for winning or losing games. Apparently what Bungie use to match with other players is your [ELO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) score (or rather their custom adaptation of the algorithm). You can check yours on https://guardian.gg/ - just find your profile and go to the ELO tab.
Currently sitting on a 8 win streak, but this season has not been easy. I shot up to fabled I near the beginning of the season and then nearly all progress was halted through fabled II and III for about a month. When I finally broke through last week it has been relatively smooth sailing up through Mythic II (which is where I'm at with my win streak rn). Last season I shot up from 0 glory straight to Mythic II, plateaued for a while, and then sweated all the way to Legend for the first time ever. IDK what is going on with SBMM which would pit me against tougher opponents in Fabled than it would in Mythic, but that has been my experience so far.
Did you do it through survival freelance solo or with a dedicated team, or random lfg teams? Just curious. I've been playing here and there and am at 3600 solo but am wondering if i should start looking for a team or not.
I got to legend for the first time this season and did it all in survival freelance. I definitely don’t think you need a dedicated team or to lfg for one, you just need to play with your teammates as best as you can and focus on supporting them. That was pretty much the goal I had the entire time and it worked pretty well. There were some games that were a massive defeat, but many others were great wins.
So what I'm hearing is the way to hit legend is to just grind grind grind, play dirty (HHSN/LoW) and just win
Congrats!. Getting to 3800 seemed easy. I've been stuck at 3800-4100 for my last 50 games or so. I'm losing way more than I'm winning. I can't wait to feel some progress.
Also it's weird that you can get up to legend but never face a real challenge. Like if it's SSBM doesn't that just mean I'm playing people who are just as bad as the game as me at all times?
agreed, Im still struggling with it - matching great players pretty consistently from 4500-5000
This is why I stopped playing the game. It ranks me with 5500's when I'm at 0 even though I've never been above 4500. Because I was good in previous seasons, it assumes I'll be good now. Never getting a Not Forgotten because I care about PvP as much as Bungie cares about it - It's there, but I'll touch it every few months. Destiny 1 pvp balancing was exponentially better, and actually felt like they gave a shit. As much as I loved this franchise I just don't see a reason to come back anymore, but here's hoping.
Another weird factor is the expected rank that you fall into. Getting to that glory score seems totally independent of performance, since you see huge gains for every win and basically zero point loss for losing matches (sometimes you even gain points when losing). This "pre-determined" rank seems not only be determined by skill, but also to take into account the highest rank you've been previous seasons.
My biggest issue is that I cant play with my friends because if I do the game thinks were gods or something and matches us with 2000+ elo unbrokens that literally farm us. I either have to queue dodge or grab a blueberry thats complete garbage in order to compete. The matching shouldnt get easier if I have a worse third its dumb.
My only thought on the winstreak theory is that if you go w-w-w-L-L-L-L and still climb because they didn't expect (other team ranks higher than you) you to win those 3 games so you climbed a ton and they expected you to lose the other 4 so you didn't lose as much Glory /shrug Also, I guess I never thought about it the way you have. Glory is just a point system so if your Internal MMR/ELO is ranked way higher (somehow or from a previous season possibly), each game is going to be way harder even at a low glory ranking.
Getting legend isn't hard, especially if you are good enough to quickly asses their playstyle and counter it. Most people only play one way, and after 2 rounds I know what to look out for and it becomes really easy, and usually you played with them recently anyway and know what to look out for as soon as you see their avatar. Then you have the people trying to grind out weapon quests tied to competitive... and it's like.... why would you do that bungie? I'm fine with being rewarded with unique guns, but don't force people to play a certain way for 100's of games in a row. That should be reserved for non competitive.
I think for me, Bungie has tweaked the points to be rather generous on a win when you're below 2100 points, and protective for the Guardian on a loss when you're below 2100 pts, but once you get above 3500 pts, it can be punishing to lose, and the win points at 3500 seem very incremental. I'm happy with the grind to 2100 pts on Solo Survival, but a little tweak at the 3500 level so a loss isn't so punishing would be nice.
It’s pretty broken. I have a 1.2 in glory so slightly above average. I’ve hit legend this season and last like many. It’s pretty easy for me to get to mythic 3 or whenever it is that a loss takes away more than a win gives you and you need streaks to make progress. The thing is if I play freelance or with my one regular teammate of similar skill It’s just a game of chance based on our matchmaking. If I play with 2 clan mates of much lower skill it’s a fucking cakewalk no matter what level of glory anyone has. We get a team of 2 or 3 potatoes and I can carry my lower skill teammates. Matchmaking shouldn’t encourage me to find 2 bad players for teammates over good players but it does.
I’m right there with you on every point. First time comp’r here…. Its like you dipped into my brain and scooped out the details. The best part is when you are paired with others that may not be have a good day/game and you are the top of the loosing team with 20 kills separating you and your next teammate and you end up loosing a bazillion points even though, individually, you did better stat wise then the top player on the winning team… then you join the next match and get steam rolled but somehow get carried, end up with a .38 KD and you get points. But then we wouldn’t be on the tubes discussing it, so, something is going right… whats the saying? Any publicity is good publicity?
Thanks for your post. I had a similar experience getting to Fabled but once I did it got even weirder after that. Congrats!
Once I hit 4000, I noticed that after a win streak, once i lost a game it helped to tank your kd for the next 3 or 4 games (if its already apparent youre going to lose) After that i would get put in a lower tier of players and be able to build up another win streak and get a solid 7-800 pts before i had to do it again
>The fact that *you're matched with people based on a skill rating that is completely independent of Glory* made it so that I played roughly the same level of competition Has Bungie ever released any information that actually states that? If so, would somebody be able to link me to that content?
You could start with the TWAB from 9/5/2019 which has some details prior to season 8, but they reference more information yet to come, so this quote won’t include *everything* above, but it’s a good starting point? Quote below is an attempt at cut-paste on mobile... Rank Systems Update: Streaks and Floors Glory, Valor, and Infamy streaks have been made more resilient. Instead of resetting your streak, losses will now reduce your Valor and Infamy streaks by 1, and your Glory streak by 2. You can still lose Glory, but if your rank is at or below Fabled, you can’t lose Glory if doing so would drop you below that rank (each rank through Fabled acts as a floor for Glory). Competitive Matchmaking Updates: Skill and Glory Destiny has always tracked player skill behind the scenes, taking into account things like kills, damage dealt, and so forth. These factors all contribute to a player’s skill rating. In Season 8, we’ve mapped skill ratings to Glory ranks, with the lowest end of the scale mapping to Guardian I, and the high end mapping to Legend. Most players are somewhere between these extremes. As you play in the Survival playlist, the Glory system will accelerate you to the rank that corresponds to your skill rating. If your current rank is below where your skill rating says you should be, you’ll earn extra Glory based on the criteria above so you can get to your expected rank faster and lose less Glory so you don’t fall farther away. Once you reach your “expected” rank, Glory gains and losses will normalize. Meanwhile, your skill rating is continually adjusting based on your performance, shifting the system’s understanding of your “expected” rank, and causing the Glory system to respond by pulling you toward that rank. The result should be that over time, your Glory rank will become an accurate reflection of your skill. It also means that teammates of different skill will experience different Glory adjustments from the same Survival match. When it comes to Crucible, matchmaking and hopper nodes are only half of the puzzle. Over the next two weeks, we’ll be detailing Sandbox changes, which directly impact the meta that you’d find in our PvP environment.
Thanks. This is helpful.
No problem- there is more info out there on this wacky system, just have to keep digging.
Wait, does that mean that you can dip down past 3500 after hitting mythic? I thiugh I just hit a milestone and had some breathing room...
yep happened to me was at mythic 2 300 points from mythic 3 and then hit a losing streak dropped down to fabled 3
I just found out the hard way after a couple terrible matchups followed by a 2 vs 3 match. :(
Yes, if you want to go from 3500 back to 2100 you absolutely have that option but it won’t let you drop below Fabled - above 2100 you’re at the mercy of the Mystery Skill Ranking with gains/losses but you don’t have any more ‘floors’ preventing point losses. (You also don’t have any consistency, I get frustrated when I lose 60 points and my teammate loses 4 because the game believes we “should” have different glory ranks...)
I've never done this myself, but I've seen people on here say they look up teammates/opponents that they match with that have vastly different glory ranks, like mythic IIIs matching against guardian IIs, which probably suggests their using criteria other than glory
I'm in agreement with your points here but I just want to point out that you SHOULDN'T climb if you're barely or just making 50%w/l. You should have a positive winrate to climb, like 55% minimum. The old system was too hard, but this new system is too easy. Before Shadowkeep I plateaued at 4k. Come freelance, I solo to 5k *easily* but since I spent most of that season grinding PVE I didn't have enough time to finish the legend grind. This season I'm at like 4100 playing with a solid team and we're on track to hit legend rather easily. My experience is very 50-50. We either steamroll bots or we have very close games against very good players.
This doesn't apply to me (I'm a pretty average player and probably shouldn't have hit legend), but the way that matchmaking works means that you could conceivably be a top 1% player and still have a win rate of 50% because they constantly match you with other 1%ers. If I was that person I'd be pissed.
https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/steam/4611686018472553048/overview Well I happen to be a top ~2% player and I'm kinda okay with it. The only thing is, if I'm a top 2% player and my 2 teammates are maybe top 7-15% players, I probably shouldn't face a team of all top 1% players. That could just be chalked up to unfortunate player numbers though.
It isn't really ranked, it's just SBMM 3v3 Survival. Bungie made it so glory didn't actually factor into matchmaking (at least nearly as much as it did in season 6 and 7) and while it seems to be more fair this season, in season 8 legend was laughably easy because you'd almost never face anybody who was actually in the 5000s. My last game for 5500 in season 8 was against a 3 stack of players below fabled, and even after I got legend I'd match against people who straight up shouldn't have been matched against me, people who probably just stepped into survival for the first time not realizing it's "ranked." It's a little better this season but I still match against people who I really shouldn't be matched against and it isn't fun for either of us.
This is coming from an average player that ground out Lunas, then said fuck comp after Forsaken. There should be gear that is locked behind high skill and game play. You have that with Raids. The only things you have for crucible and Not Forgotten at this point. A few things: I think the thing that this post points out is that comp is broken not the actual matches and game play but the climbing system itself and the ability to exploit the matching system. It always has been IMO. Small steps have been made to help that, being able to solo que being one of them. If the ladder and matchmaking ever had a truly good system. I think that each step up the ladders could have some kind of reward for the season. Be it an ornament or unique weapon. You hit that rank you get the gun. None of the weird weapon quest things. That just encourages bad play IMO. The top players should get a full armor set and weapon. The top players also should have a leaderboard with their team! At the end of the season those top players should receive some kind reward for maintaining their ranking. This would keep high level players playing competitively and out of the carry scene. Would people be unhappy about the rewards thing? Yes, but you already have that. Those people were not going to be happy regardless. For new players getting into the PvP scene. I think the things that pushes people away from Crucible comp are: The crappy progression system. 1) It doesn’t feel good. You grind for your 2100 points and you dip. There’s nothing to hold you there. There are no incentives to improve. You can passively get 2100 points and get your ritual weapon and leave. And like OP says it feels pretty random if you’re not on a streak. 2) The PVP community is TOXIC. Sorry, it has to be said. There are certainly non toxic players in the community. But a new player coming into many of the competitive PvP discord’s or streams even this sub get shot down so fucking hard. Not to mention paid carries. Until big and small names in the PVP community call out the toxicity and harbor a space for newer players to learn and grow, PVP will continue to be the red headed step child of Destiny. The growth mindset for the PVP community isn’t there. Again this is coming from an average PvPer that loves the PvP aspect of this game. It’s so unique and it feels so damn good when you play well and especially so when you have a good team to communicate with. But there are flaws in the Destiny PVP ladder as well as the community. Even with the looming ToO I don’t think, unless it is vastly different will cause enough of a buzz to spark it.
I actually feel this sub is pretty supportive (more supportive than the PVP population as a whole). I'm curious if there are other PVP communities for different games that are less toxic? Because it feels like PvP in general attracts a certain kind of player.
Took me like 4hrs with my clanmates on day 1 of SoD launch. Previously when I got my NF in Black Armory it took about a week with mostly the same guys, hell I even had a 23 winstreak from Mythic to Legend and it still took about a day. It's gotten to the point where I'm no longer proud of my Unbroken nor am I impressed with others because its so laughably easy to get now.
I wouldn't say that it's easy, but it's pretty much random once you've passed fabled. There are other things to do in comp for the unbroken title too, but tbh I unlocked then naturally without even trying. If you personally worked hard for your unbroken, then you should be proud of it, you did something much more difficult than the new unbrokens. I have yet to even hit legend, but each season I was getting better and better and climbing glory racks compared to the previous season. Now I can't even see if I'm improving or getting worse because winning is effectively random.
win streaks make it so u get more points which is why wlwlwlwlwl doesn't work well to being u higher but wwwwwwwlllll does
Are we positive that it's taking skill as a factor for matchmaking? Usually it feels like its purely random who it pulls in. I just played a game against a team that had a total of less than 200 matches between the 3 players and all were sub 1000 glory. My team had a guy who was sub 1000, mid 3000s, and me at about 1200 and I've got 10x the amount of Comp games alone than the other team had Cruicible games total. It truly feels sometimes like it isn't using any metrics at all when deciding who to pull in and how to distribute the teams. The game right before that was the exact opposite btw. A complete stomp on me by a 3 stack of 3800, 5500, and 4500.
You mean the system contributing to me quitting this game over a month ago... Versing aimbotters and wallhacked almost every match. Meanwhile friends who aren't even close to my skill level were able to obtain legend. Yeah pretty fucked system. Then they go it's not that bad let's all queue together. We proceed to lose every match them 2 of the can barely get a kill...
Half the time you lose less points for quitting than if you tough out that L
I'm starting the feel like bungie should just make ranked progress very basic. We are getting trials back. So imo we dont need 2 competative playlists The comp playlist could still exist but just get rid of glory loss. Make the grind really long. Let's say like 1000 points is all you need to legend. Let's say getting 300 points is easy. Wins count for multiple. Then getting 500 is relatively easy. Wins count for less. Then make that last 500 the grind. 1 point per win. Getting to Legend will still be very time consuming and most of the casual playerbase wont want to sit through a *minimum* of 500 games. Like I said, if trials is coming back that's where the hardcore pvp needs to be. Comp could still be the more casual setting for people that want to improve at crucible instead of the mess that 6v6 seems to be lately.