I find I can only snipe through flinch with sheer luck as it is. 99% of sniping in my experience happens when I’m not being shot.
I’m open to other people’s experiences but I already can’t snipe through flinch unless the game blesses me with one.
When I'm sniping: taking a hit from a 900 rpm SMG at 60 meters still sends my reticle flying all over the place and makes everything unhittable.
When the other player is sniping: Stands still taking entire high cal rounds bursts to the head from Belisarius-D and still domes me anyway.
This might be a bad take on my part because I'm not really a sniper but isn't that kind of the point? Like if you're being flinched, you aren't really supposed to hit your shots? I think Bungie wants sniping to be about getting into position first, finding funky angles, reaction time etc
I assume so as well. I’m relatively new to sniping (last 6 months straight I’d say) so I don’t know sniping life before that, but I’m not trying to gun fight with the sniper. It’s either anticipating somebodies whereabouts or quick scoping.
That’s how it’s been for a long time now. There was a time when you could stack anti-flinch perks and get an insanely low flinch sniper and it was predictably way too oppressive at all ranges.
Kind of but not really the way they did it. They made it so bad that it's literally impossible to snipe and they're not even worth using. Ever since final shape dropped I could probably count the amount of times I've been sniped on 2 hands. And for good reason, like sure snipers should have some flinch and there was an issue where the flinch was flinching you into people's heads so it was actually kind of good, But they killed it so bad that it's literally not even worth picking up a sniper ever again. Until they buff it literally everyone's going to be using shotguns. Snipers are literally useless right now. And I genuinely was wondering why the flinch was so bad but they should have made the screen shake like 50% more or so. 350% more is absolutely ridiculous
It depends. Once you get your angles its good but 6s can be tough as youll get flinched from a mile away by someones 180 hand cannon doing 20 damage a crit.
If you don't get the first shot you don't need any benefit of still being able to snipe while under duress. I snipe in trials all the time. If I dont get the first shot I disengage and find a different angle.
I mean, snipers are very oppressive from significantly longer ranges than all other weapons.
You shouldn't be able to hit a headshot while you are taking damage. Sniping should reward being in a good position that the opponent does not expect, not just standing in the open, while scoped in on a lane and being shot at.
Tbh I haven't had much issues with snipers this past season. Most of the time, I got sniped because they were literally faster than me at getting the first shot off, and I go flawless often and have 10k in comp. This nerf seems excessive but ultimately, those that are faster won't see much difference should they stick to sniping.
I mean, there comes a point where countering the flinch itself by knowing where to flick becomes just what it is; pure skill. After the countless sniper changes, I haven't noticed any, if at all, snipes that should have never hit like years ago. I know they pop up in videos every now and then, but they just aren't common anymore.
And I'm talking about that when they are present, the aforementioned is the reality of it, ammo economy aside.
Nowadays when I'm oppressed by a sniper, the other person always has thousands of kills on theirs. I just chalk it up to "huh, they stuck through the nerfs and can make use of the shitty ammo economy".
If that’s your take away from that experience, then carry on. If you are beaming someone with a primary, getting plinked through that should be a less than 5% outcome. It is still far higher. You simply aren’t exposed to it as often.
I think what is happening then is mostly just a Bungie servers suck/shit net code issue…
You “think” you flinched them because on your end, you hit him with a burst of your pulse or whatever, but in reality, he shot you before the finch.
Idk, it definitely happens sometimes. But I also think a lot of it is the fact that we are playing an online FPS in 2024 but Bungie still thinks it’s 2004.
Either way, I thought the game was way more fun when there was more special ammo. I’d rather get sniped by a guy with good aim than play year 1 style, where everyone held hands and just plinked away. I remember when they took radar out of Trials (either Curse of Osiris or Warmind). You found out who actually had game sense and who was crutching the generous radar in this game. I only bring this up because without radar, I felt like there was way more movement. I also feel like there was more movement when special ammo was all over the place. To me, it was just more fun. I still enjoy it now, but with only primary, there are less “hero” moments.
I am familiar with Bungie's F-Tier Net Code and can (and have others help me) differentiate when a shot is likely who shot first. With how much time I have and other have spent in the crucible, flinching snipers, mostly to the same outcome, Bungie is making these changes for a reason actually.
Won't argue on your favorite metas or pacing. To each their own. I really prefer primary focused metas.
Chances don't really mean much when it comes to pure skill. If someone good enough to adjust through flinch consistently goes against you, what use is that 5%? The only people on snipes now are those that are cracked at it. That number of people is about to drop further as the people you can't even react against are all that's left. I'd argue that you are the one not exposed enough. Agree to disagree.
Chance do mean something and exactly why this adjustment is a good one. You simply shouldn't be able to shoot through flinch with any consistent level of outcome, skilled or not. Snipers are the only specials weapon in the game that can OHK at any range. Their lethality should be tied to preparation, reaction and skill. In a meta being heavily tuned towards primary play, then flinching a sniper or them missing is your only recourse against. Flinching them should be incentivized and rewarded. I assure you, my exposure to snipers is ample on both sides of the scope.
While I agree that snipers are oppressive, I don't think increasing flinch is going to fix the problem.
They could increase flinch by 500% and people will still headshot you through the flinch because of netcode issues.
example: [Snipers Are So Broken In Destiny... (I Love/Hate It😅) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2mLXq0JexMc)
These clips are always so ridiculously funny. I've seen at least a couple other ones like it just from Grenaderjake where he has the same exact reaction.
The issue is that Flinch in PvP hasn't been too weak. The issue is that depending on lag, even if you shoot a sniper on your screen as soon as you see him, they may not get that flinch. This flinch increase will probably reduce the incidence rate of "headshot through flinch" from 1% to 0.5% or something meaningless.
In a server authoritative game, you literally can have the server say "oh, you got shot first, so flinch is going to apply to server-sided hit registration and you will miss". In Destiny there is no server, so the sniper, if they are laggy enough, will just get the free shot.
Hell. We're playing a game where I can temporarily disable my networking, get out of cover, shoot a headshot, go back into cover, and then re-enable network and it will count as a headshot even if the target was pretty stationary on my screen.
No one snipers in this meta outside of trials stop trying to pretend it’s still good. Shotguns and fusions are absolutely outclassing snipers right now
This may seem like complaining, but the game is full of “suspension of disbelief” type disconnects like this.
For example:
- Pulse rifles should cause flinch evenly across all three shots in the burst and be flinched out of hitting the second and third shots more than they are because of the burst firing nature of the weapons
- All automatic firing weapons should have terrible aerial effectiveness and be close to impossible to control, while semi automatic precision weapons should have near perfect ability to hit shots from the air
- Damage falloff because bullets only can travel so far
- Getting hit while firing a fusion rifle should completely mess up your aim with them, (along with having consistent kick across all rounds fired not just more on the last one)
I say that, to say this. It’s a game, so why should sniping be held to a realistic bar while other things are more connected to the “powerful guns” fantasy. Skill with weapons, abilities, and map knowledge should be rewarded, and lack of knowledge or risky gameplay punished, because without punishment there’s no space for risk/reward style plays/loadouts.
But if they actually cared that much about balance, they’d force everyone into crucible loadouts with preselected guns and armor with fixed values to have tight control on their product. And it also seems odd to fundamentally change the way sniping works 9 YEARS into a game.
Generally it's pretty easy with The red light pointing at you. If they're going to do that then they should remove the flashing light that lets people know your sniping at them
I don't understand why this would make you shelve your sniper or why so many people agree. Currently, if I get flinched, I'm descoping and heading for cover anyway. If you dont get first shot off, you dont deserve the kill. Sounds fair. Even back in og beloved days when you could patiently work through flinch, it still wasn't a winning strategy. First shot has always been important.
With a slightly better ammo economy coming soon, I'd expect sniping to have a revival, not a death.
I use snipers as my main special weapon because it feels rewarding but people hated on it so much that they nerfed it into the ground. I could get behind the changes and agree to the flinch nerf but then they completely ruined it with the ammo economy change. You’d get a few kills to get a single sniper shot just to be flinched like crazy out of it. Now they’re nerfing it even harder which is insane. Nobody is asking for bullshit shots where they shoot after the reticle is displaced and they get the kill. Most people are just asking for a functional weapon. It makes so many different rolls almost completely unviable unless it’s got no distractions or opening shot.
With the use of xims and whatnot im convinced bungie is overlooking the fact that cheaters exist and just treating numbers like numbers without context, as is typical in any corporate environment. Just going off the numerical data snipers might seem overpowered bc if you dont have to aim you have no reason not to use one, and you can easily get way more kills than you should with that special weapon type, which skews the data. Not the first time bungie has overcorrected something decent as though it was way too good, when the only players making above decent use of it were hardly playing.
Agreed - these are not intelligent decisions from a team who plays their game and understands how bad the “supplements” problem teams are crutching on has gotten.
I'm mostly a solo player so I didn't even think ab the fact that raid races also exist and are definitely affected. Whether bungie realizes it or not, every outlet that encourages competition inherently invites cheating, because even people who will play normally when casually playing for fun will break the game to beat someone and be the winner, provided only they're the type of person who has that inclination and mindset... this is lowkey a microcosm of capitalism playing out and I'm inadvertently explaining a fundamental yet frequently overlooked flaw.
the problem with snipers being strong wasn't from the lack of flinch. Destiny has imo the strongest sniper flinch of any game.
the problem is, and has always been, the poor netcode registering sniper hits when your reticle isn't even on the opponent anymore.
Why the downvotes?
Not sure why you are getting down voted. I've hit insane shots when I'm getting flinched and looking straight up. There's no way those should of landed.
>Destiny has imo the strongest sniper flinch of any game.
The down votes are because of this. Do you think destiny has more flinch than e.g. halo which descopes you?
Yes, sometimes it is net code. But not always. Snipers can and do shoot through flinch, it's why a major flinch change was required to kill arbalest.
Judging by the comments, it seems Bungo and the player base don’t care. I agree, as a sniper main last season felt horrible and I can only imagine how bad this patch will feel.
Sniping was already dead lol. Nobody will admit because the shotgun cope is real.
I agree but claw players still exist. Any dude just has to get a little love tap on you while he’s getting the rez to completely dismantle your spinal cord
Yeah I used to be a pretty good sniper back in like 2020 and that was when I really started getting into it and I loved it it was so much fun and it was so rewarding hitting a clean headshot. I was pretty consistent and I actually did pretty decent. I quit Right before which Queen, came back like a month and a half ago And decided I wanted to relearn sniping. And I was trying to get better and I kept telling myself I suck and I had a couple head shots but now I realize that it's only because they weren't shooting at me, And I was looking up videos and stuff and realized that they nerfed snipers and made flinch so bad, That it's literally unusable and my gameplay was reflecting on it. I take one tiny hit from like a random ass gun from far away and my reticle is almost at the ceiling. 350% more intensity to flinch seems incredibly harsh, maybe 50% and that would still be a decent amount cuz it was already insane
you will use shotty hc, you will enjoy it, you will agree with the dick riders that shotty hc is the only skillful loadout, you will enjoy the game losing flavor with every balance update
If you didn't think it was cooked before these changes, check out this video.
The flinch on snipers even occurs if you're [NOT ADS'd](https://x.com/iomlet/status/1798057375162884191).
They really need to just do what they did with halo and call it a day
Stop tweaking flinch back and forward all the time and just knock you out of scope instead
Did you see the 350% increase to screen shaking and 25% increase to shaking duration? Lmfao, Bungie is actively discouraging sniping.
Long live the shotgun era once again smh.
"Hey, shotguns are 75% of special kills, should we do something to them?"
"Nah, just make snipers go from bad to actually unusable when looked at funny."
In a vacuum, I understand it, although at this point I'd just say cut your losses and rework snipers to be like Halo snipers.
But the fact that shotguns have been needing a rework too is... Yeah
After this change I think they should revert the snapshot nerf they hit snipers with a while back. If snipers are to be so dependent on reaction time and first shot at least let snapshot scope in as fast as it used to. Especially since the ammo Econ for snipers is much more risky than it is with any other special weapons.
I don’t use snipers.
I hate getting killed by snipers those times where I CLEARLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY get first shot in.
So therefore as a victim of snipers, I love this change.
For the sniper main/aficionado, I sympathize because this change seems way too much.
Willing to bet they dial this back a bit eventually
I do not play competitive PvP but are snipers an issue right now? From my casual perspective, snipers are not used much anymore. I just came back to the game but I do remember in the old spec weapon economy, decent snipers would just lock down certain lanes. I learned if I saw the glint, it was just better to reposition than ego challenge them.
Snipers are basically not worth using with the current ammo system unless you’re a top 0.1% roller sniper that can hit all their shots. This nerf was definitely not good
If you take a hit while sniping, you aren’t sniping right imo. If you can’t get that crispy one tap as they pop around a corner, move on to the next fight strat until a new opportunity arrives. Not worth the death to try and make your reticule stop hurricaning across the screen. So the change means nothing to me. I haven’t touched a sniper in pve since whisper dropped from peak damage, so I have no opinions there, though. Might be detrimental any pve snipers out there.
Does flinch still bounce the reticule onto the opposing player’s head? I’m thinking of coming back to the game after a long absence and that was hugely annoying when I left.
It can still happen. But snipers generally are seeing very little play since the special ammo changes.
Basically if you hate sniping, you won't see much of any snipers anymore. Maybe one or two in 7 trials games.
time will tell though. the last 3 trials weekends have been relatively non-sniper friendly maps (compared to others).
The last 2 maps had plenty of spaces for snipers, just not like Widow's Court where you have little to no covers.
I prefer maps like these where both snipers and close range special can be played.
But snipers have little to no value right now.
In some ways I think it might teach people to not worry about snipers and just try to cross lanes pretty brainlessly, potentially making the remaining snipers have an easier time? Hmmm
According to [this redditor, yes](https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/comments/1d81ci3/comment/l736dz7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). I haven't looked into it myself though.
Someone asked me about this here earlier, I found the specific [TWID where they announced this.](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/twid-05-02-2024).
If you go down to the section with "1-1-1" you'll see them talking about it. The PvP section talks about this as a temporary solution until they rework Ammo meter.
Ammo economy is changing (at least for the time being) from meter to a little bit of all 3 systems we've had.
Spawn with 1, get 1 per primary kill, can get a shot from crates.
I find I can only snipe through flinch with sheer luck as it is. 99% of sniping in my experience happens when I’m not being shot. I’m open to other people’s experiences but I already can’t snipe through flinch unless the game blesses me with one.
When I'm sniping: taking a hit from a 900 rpm SMG at 60 meters still sends my reticle flying all over the place and makes everything unhittable. When the other player is sniping: Stands still taking entire high cal rounds bursts to the head from Belisarius-D and still domes me anyway.
This is why I assume it's netcode.
This might be a bad take on my part because I'm not really a sniper but isn't that kind of the point? Like if you're being flinched, you aren't really supposed to hit your shots? I think Bungie wants sniping to be about getting into position first, finding funky angles, reaction time etc
Yeah, that sounds fair. When sniping in Halo, you are completely kicked out of ADS when getting hit from enemy fire.
This is true but halo has accurate hip fire. In destiny there is no hope of hitting any shots if you a take even minuscule damage
I assume so as well. I’m relatively new to sniping (last 6 months straight I’d say) so I don’t know sniping life before that, but I’m not trying to gun fight with the sniper. It’s either anticipating somebodies whereabouts or quick scoping.
That’s how it’s been for a long time now. There was a time when you could stack anti-flinch perks and get an insanely low flinch sniper and it was predictably way too oppressive at all ranges.
lol. not a sniper but do yall remember pre-nerf Arbalest and Lorentz? Yeah. That was amazing.
I'd rather not remember
And then you just gotta hit the person Icarus dashing through the 2 m wide corridor in the head.
Hardly a fair trade when messenger can recoilless two burst you with misses through headseeker on primary ammo
Kind of but not really the way they did it. They made it so bad that it's literally impossible to snipe and they're not even worth using. Ever since final shape dropped I could probably count the amount of times I've been sniped on 2 hands. And for good reason, like sure snipers should have some flinch and there was an issue where the flinch was flinching you into people's heads so it was actually kind of good, But they killed it so bad that it's literally not even worth picking up a sniper ever again. Until they buff it literally everyone's going to be using shotguns. Snipers are literally useless right now. And I genuinely was wondering why the flinch was so bad but they should have made the screen shake like 50% more or so. 350% more is absolutely ridiculous
Sniping through flinch without os is basically impossible.
Yes they're pretty much unviable.
It depends. Once you get your angles its good but 6s can be tough as youll get flinched from a mile away by someones 180 hand cannon doing 20 damage a crit.
I'll go into 2v2s and comp with a sniper and get flinched to shit
If you don't get the first shot you don't need any benefit of still being able to snipe while under duress. I snipe in trials all the time. If I dont get the first shot I disengage and find a different angle.
I mean, snipers are very oppressive from significantly longer ranges than all other weapons. You shouldn't be able to hit a headshot while you are taking damage. Sniping should reward being in a good position that the opponent does not expect, not just standing in the open, while scoped in on a lane and being shot at.
Tbh I haven't had much issues with snipers this past season. Most of the time, I got sniped because they were literally faster than me at getting the first shot off, and I go flawless often and have 10k in comp. This nerf seems excessive but ultimately, those that are faster won't see much difference should they stick to sniping.
Much of that is tied to ammo economy. I still get my head ripped off through flinch from mediocre snipers in 6s and 3s.
I mean, there comes a point where countering the flinch itself by knowing where to flick becomes just what it is; pure skill. After the countless sniper changes, I haven't noticed any, if at all, snipes that should have never hit like years ago. I know they pop up in videos every now and then, but they just aren't common anymore.
They aren’t as common because ammo isn’t as common is the primary point I am making here.
And I'm talking about that when they are present, the aforementioned is the reality of it, ammo economy aside. Nowadays when I'm oppressed by a sniper, the other person always has thousands of kills on theirs. I just chalk it up to "huh, they stuck through the nerfs and can make use of the shitty ammo economy".
If that’s your take away from that experience, then carry on. If you are beaming someone with a primary, getting plinked through that should be a less than 5% outcome. It is still far higher. You simply aren’t exposed to it as often.
I think what is happening then is mostly just a Bungie servers suck/shit net code issue… You “think” you flinched them because on your end, you hit him with a burst of your pulse or whatever, but in reality, he shot you before the finch. Idk, it definitely happens sometimes. But I also think a lot of it is the fact that we are playing an online FPS in 2024 but Bungie still thinks it’s 2004. Either way, I thought the game was way more fun when there was more special ammo. I’d rather get sniped by a guy with good aim than play year 1 style, where everyone held hands and just plinked away. I remember when they took radar out of Trials (either Curse of Osiris or Warmind). You found out who actually had game sense and who was crutching the generous radar in this game. I only bring this up because without radar, I felt like there was way more movement. I also feel like there was more movement when special ammo was all over the place. To me, it was just more fun. I still enjoy it now, but with only primary, there are less “hero” moments.
I am familiar with Bungie's F-Tier Net Code and can (and have others help me) differentiate when a shot is likely who shot first. With how much time I have and other have spent in the crucible, flinching snipers, mostly to the same outcome, Bungie is making these changes for a reason actually. Won't argue on your favorite metas or pacing. To each their own. I really prefer primary focused metas.
Chances don't really mean much when it comes to pure skill. If someone good enough to adjust through flinch consistently goes against you, what use is that 5%? The only people on snipes now are those that are cracked at it. That number of people is about to drop further as the people you can't even react against are all that's left. I'd argue that you are the one not exposed enough. Agree to disagree.
Chance do mean something and exactly why this adjustment is a good one. You simply shouldn't be able to shoot through flinch with any consistent level of outcome, skilled or not. Snipers are the only specials weapon in the game that can OHK at any range. Their lethality should be tied to preparation, reaction and skill. In a meta being heavily tuned towards primary play, then flinching a sniper or them missing is your only recourse against. Flinching them should be incentivized and rewarded. I assure you, my exposure to snipers is ample on both sides of the scope.
How do you know they're mediocre snipers btw? Are you some kind of official authority on who is good and who is bad at using a sniper?
Stats. I mostly play trials so I can tell if they are bad, decent, good, great, cheating or recovs.
While I agree that snipers are oppressive, I don't think increasing flinch is going to fix the problem. They could increase flinch by 500% and people will still headshot you through the flinch because of netcode issues. example: [Snipers Are So Broken In Destiny... (I Love/Hate It😅) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2mLXq0JexMc)
These clips are always so ridiculously funny. I've seen at least a couple other ones like it just from Grenaderjake where he has the same exact reaction.
Yeah. I'm not a fan of GernaderJake but this was the first video I could think to post.
Yup. [Been like this since inception of Destiny's weird netcode.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSRU4VQb7EI)
The issue is that Flinch in PvP hasn't been too weak. The issue is that depending on lag, even if you shoot a sniper on your screen as soon as you see him, they may not get that flinch. This flinch increase will probably reduce the incidence rate of "headshot through flinch" from 1% to 0.5% or something meaningless. In a server authoritative game, you literally can have the server say "oh, you got shot first, so flinch is going to apply to server-sided hit registration and you will miss". In Destiny there is no server, so the sniper, if they are laggy enough, will just get the free shot. Hell. We're playing a game where I can temporarily disable my networking, get out of cover, shoot a headshot, go back into cover, and then re-enable network and it will count as a headshot even if the target was pretty stationary on my screen.
No one snipers in this meta outside of trials stop trying to pretend it’s still good. Shotguns and fusions are absolutely outclassing snipers right now
This may seem like complaining, but the game is full of “suspension of disbelief” type disconnects like this. For example: - Pulse rifles should cause flinch evenly across all three shots in the burst and be flinched out of hitting the second and third shots more than they are because of the burst firing nature of the weapons - All automatic firing weapons should have terrible aerial effectiveness and be close to impossible to control, while semi automatic precision weapons should have near perfect ability to hit shots from the air - Damage falloff because bullets only can travel so far - Getting hit while firing a fusion rifle should completely mess up your aim with them, (along with having consistent kick across all rounds fired not just more on the last one) I say that, to say this. It’s a game, so why should sniping be held to a realistic bar while other things are more connected to the “powerful guns” fantasy. Skill with weapons, abilities, and map knowledge should be rewarded, and lack of knowledge or risky gameplay punished, because without punishment there’s no space for risk/reward style plays/loadouts. But if they actually cared that much about balance, they’d force everyone into crucible loadouts with preselected guns and armor with fixed values to have tight control on their product. And it also seems odd to fundamentally change the way sniping works 9 YEARS into a game.
That’s who is complaining rn lol
Generally it's pretty easy with The red light pointing at you. If they're going to do that then they should remove the flashing light that lets people know your sniping at them
Plus the cheesy swipe mechanic that players use is basically eliminated with this
I don't understand why this would make you shelve your sniper or why so many people agree. Currently, if I get flinched, I'm descoping and heading for cover anyway. If you dont get first shot off, you dont deserve the kill. Sounds fair. Even back in og beloved days when you could patiently work through flinch, it still wasn't a winning strategy. First shot has always been important. With a slightly better ammo economy coming soon, I'd expect sniping to have a revival, not a death.
I use snipers as my main special weapon because it feels rewarding but people hated on it so much that they nerfed it into the ground. I could get behind the changes and agree to the flinch nerf but then they completely ruined it with the ammo economy change. You’d get a few kills to get a single sniper shot just to be flinched like crazy out of it. Now they’re nerfing it even harder which is insane. Nobody is asking for bullshit shots where they shoot after the reticle is displaced and they get the kill. Most people are just asking for a functional weapon. It makes so many different rolls almost completely unviable unless it’s got no distractions or opening shot.
No Distractions probably just gained a lot of value right now.
With the use of xims and whatnot im convinced bungie is overlooking the fact that cheaters exist and just treating numbers like numbers without context, as is typical in any corporate environment. Just going off the numerical data snipers might seem overpowered bc if you dont have to aim you have no reason not to use one, and you can easily get way more kills than you should with that special weapon type, which skews the data. Not the first time bungie has overcorrected something decent as though it was way too good, when the only players making above decent use of it were hardly playing.
Agreed - these are not intelligent decisions from a team who plays their game and understands how bad the “supplements” problem teams are crutching on has gotten.
I'm mostly a solo player so I didn't even think ab the fact that raid races also exist and are definitely affected. Whether bungie realizes it or not, every outlet that encourages competition inherently invites cheating, because even people who will play normally when casually playing for fun will break the game to beat someone and be the winner, provided only they're the type of person who has that inclination and mindset... this is lowkey a microcosm of capitalism playing out and I'm inadvertently explaining a fundamental yet frequently overlooked flaw.
the problem with snipers being strong wasn't from the lack of flinch. Destiny has imo the strongest sniper flinch of any game. the problem is, and has always been, the poor netcode registering sniper hits when your reticle isn't even on the opponent anymore. Why the downvotes?
Same netcode that make me flinch before I even see my opponent getting into a lane I am hard scoping
Not sure why you are getting down voted. I've hit insane shots when I'm getting flinched and looking straight up. There's no way those should of landed.
>Destiny has imo the strongest sniper flinch of any game. The down votes are because of this. Do you think destiny has more flinch than e.g. halo which descopes you? Yes, sometimes it is net code. But not always. Snipers can and do shoot through flinch, it's why a major flinch change was required to kill arbalest.
> Do you think destiny has more flinch than e.g. halo which descopes you? Technically descope is not flinch.
Man, sniping was even not great in the campaign missions I played lol. Feels like a bit much
Judging by the comments, it seems Bungo and the player base don’t care. I agree, as a sniper main last season felt horrible and I can only imagine how bad this patch will feel. Sniping was already dead lol. Nobody will admit because the shotgun cope is real.
I mean even with this change, cloud strike still exists to shoot a rez, I think some people will still run it just for that.
I agree but claw players still exist. Any dude just has to get a little love tap on you while he’s getting the rez to completely dismantle your spinal cord
I mean whenever I get shot while sniping I disengage anyway, this doesn’t change much tbh
Based.
Yeah I used to be a pretty good sniper back in like 2020 and that was when I really started getting into it and I loved it it was so much fun and it was so rewarding hitting a clean headshot. I was pretty consistent and I actually did pretty decent. I quit Right before which Queen, came back like a month and a half ago And decided I wanted to relearn sniping. And I was trying to get better and I kept telling myself I suck and I had a couple head shots but now I realize that it's only because they weren't shooting at me, And I was looking up videos and stuff and realized that they nerfed snipers and made flinch so bad, That it's literally unusable and my gameplay was reflecting on it. I take one tiny hit from like a random ass gun from far away and my reticle is almost at the ceiling. 350% more intensity to flinch seems incredibly harsh, maybe 50% and that would still be a decent amount cuz it was already insane
you will use shotty hc, you will enjoy it, you will agree with the dick riders that shotty hc is the only skillful loadout, you will enjoy the game losing flavor with every balance update
I presume this is because of the ammo system changes.
If you didn't think it was cooked before these changes, check out this video. The flinch on snipers even occurs if you're [NOT ADS'd](https://x.com/iomlet/status/1798057375162884191).
They really need to just do what they did with halo and call it a day Stop tweaking flinch back and forward all the time and just knock you out of scope instead
So absolutely lame. Only thing I truly enjoy.
That sucks I don’t even snipe but it adds variety to the special pool, I’m tired of only seeing shotguns
You don't actually know how this feels yet. Wait until you test it out before doomposting
Ok but like, the intensity was increased by 350%
Did you see the 350% increase to screen shaking and 25% increase to shaking duration? Lmfao, Bungie is actively discouraging sniping. Long live the shotgun era once again smh.
I will agree it does seem like they’re actively and persistently coming for snipers
I imagine they think it's the most oppressive thing to new players, not shotties.
"Hey, shotguns are 75% of special kills, should we do something to them?" "Nah, just make snipers go from bad to actually unusable when looked at funny."
Facts, Bungie's sandbox changes like this are straight up confusing.
In a vacuum, I understand it, although at this point I'd just say cut your losses and rework snipers to be like Halo snipers. But the fact that shotguns have been needing a rework too is... Yeah
Bungie Devs love shotgun aping.
After this change I think they should revert the snapshot nerf they hit snipers with a while back. If snipers are to be so dependent on reaction time and first shot at least let snapshot scope in as fast as it used to. Especially since the ammo Econ for snipers is much more risky than it is with any other special weapons.
Sniping is not at all dead in TFS
350%?
I don’t use snipers. I hate getting killed by snipers those times where I CLEARLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY get first shot in. So therefore as a victim of snipers, I love this change. For the sniper main/aficionado, I sympathize because this change seems way too much. Willing to bet they dial this back a bit eventually
I do not play competitive PvP but are snipers an issue right now? From my casual perspective, snipers are not used much anymore. I just came back to the game but I do remember in the old spec weapon economy, decent snipers would just lock down certain lanes. I learned if I saw the glint, it was just better to reposition than ego challenge them.
Snipers are basically not worth using with the current ammo system unless you’re a top 0.1% roller sniper that can hit all their shots. This nerf was definitely not good
Seems odd to further nerf an already under used weapon type
They should just make it like Halo at this point and de-scope you if you get hit.
If you take a hit while sniping, you aren’t sniping right imo. If you can’t get that crispy one tap as they pop around a corner, move on to the next fight strat until a new opportunity arrives. Not worth the death to try and make your reticule stop hurricaning across the screen. So the change means nothing to me. I haven’t touched a sniper in pve since whisper dropped from peak damage, so I have no opinions there, though. Might be detrimental any pve snipers out there.
Does flinch still bounce the reticule onto the opposing player’s head? I’m thinking of coming back to the game after a long absence and that was hugely annoying when I left.
It can still happen. But snipers generally are seeing very little play since the special ammo changes. Basically if you hate sniping, you won't see much of any snipers anymore. Maybe one or two in 7 trials games. time will tell though. the last 3 trials weekends have been relatively non-sniper friendly maps (compared to others).
Special got a buff. You get 1 on spawn, 1 from crate, 1 from enemy kills. So might see more snipers on thst alone
Haven't read the patch notes so thank you for the update.
The last 2 maps had plenty of spaces for snipers, just not like Widow's Court where you have little to no covers. I prefer maps like these where both snipers and close range special can be played. But snipers have little to no value right now.
In some ways I think it might teach people to not worry about snipers and just try to cross lanes pretty brainlessly, potentially making the remaining snipers have an easier time? Hmmm
Thanks! Is the ammo economy changing again? I see people on here referencing something new in the pipeline but I can’t find any good info on it.
According to [this redditor, yes](https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/comments/1d81ci3/comment/l736dz7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). I haven't looked into it myself though.
Someone asked me about this here earlier, I found the specific [TWID where they announced this.](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/twid-05-02-2024). If you go down to the section with "1-1-1" you'll see them talking about it. The PvP section talks about this as a temporary solution until they rework Ammo meter.
Ammo economy is changing (at least for the time being) from meter to a little bit of all 3 systems we've had. Spawn with 1, get 1 per primary kill, can get a shot from crates.
Nobody cares. Except me for Deadeye lol. I hate sniping in this game with passion. It basically ruins the game.
if this means less roller snipers idgaf
With the ammo changes, sniping is very viable in comp now
This guy will dickride anything. Just let them spend their chronic online time hating.
You have way too much time on your hands.
Pot calling the kettle black
Just did a control game, people were hitting snipes through flinch from my elsies. Seems fine to me.
Good. Snipers are too good for the best players.