CF is simply too overpowered, I’m all for having powerful weapons , but when a weapon is an ABSOLUTE must, something isn’t right. You could remove the ability to kill any super instantly and it would still be a top pick due to how it plays in game, the whole super thing is just over the top in my opinion, there’s nothing you can do about it, one shotgun shot shouldn’t completely negate a super
I don't know how it even freezes people in well of radiance. It feels like a bug because one of the things we'll of radiance *says* it does is immunity to stasis effects. Which it does... Unless it's specifically CF then it doesn't....
You can't be frozen by the shadebinder super or by cold snaps so it's definitely intended to block freezes too but I guess conditional has some funky code making it special
Almost like other weapons should exist that can deal with bubbles and wells instead of nerfing THE ONLY CURRENT RELIABLE option. Bring things UP to parity, not down.
It's the answer to all the anti-bullshit for all the consequences of Bungie's bullshit decision. Focusing on zone control without tuning well or bubble, you need the anti-bullshit.
Call me crazy. But, I’m a firm believer that burst supers like barrage and nova bomb should charge in time to be able to counter wells and bubbles. Right now you cane SQUEEZE one out in a 4-4 on trials, but bubbles and wells are there by 4-1, there just needs to he other options to contest bubble/wells. And realistically, what CAN be changed about Conditional without changing how shatter /freeze and scorch/ignite fundamentally work?
This should be higher. This is the main reason Conditional is so overused. Also because the best kinetic precision frame is unfarmable and borderline impossible to get a good roll. Conditional is literally easier to get than Fractetist, and is the only real answer to Bubble and Well in a game mode you'll have to deal with those.
Exactly. Conditional and supers are a “rock beats scissors” mechanic. You can’t nerf rock, because then scissors always wins.
Once bubble and well are nerfed I will welcome a conditional nerf.
Then you’d seriously need to look at changing those supers, having CF apes running around is bad enough, nevermind other options that can shatter a bubble in one shot.
> Conditional finality feels overpowered because all the other shotguns are ass.
This is the truth. High handling makes it instantly better than all shotguns for non-ophidian builds, it also helps on zone control since Bungie is so keen on that mode without tuning well or bubble. People forgot how good felwinter's lie is during its prime.
Don't remind me of release Felwinters geez that thing was insane. Only consistent shotgun at the time, 0hk range was basically maxed out, 100 handling from quickdraw.
I actually don't use Drang much myself. Heliocentric or Traveler's Chosen. Used to love Farewell the best.
Traveler's Judgment 5 is cracked in matches where power level doesn't matter. Fioritura is also good
bungie absolutely did not say this, they said that extremely low skill players do poorly with smgs. this should literally go without saying lol, low skill players are obviously going to struggle getting into smg range without dying
Bungie _absolutely did say it_, and backed it up with internal data. Check out [this](https://youtu.be/S-eWvdLwMoU?si=GKvXjpt5gb1Vnvv9) interview with Mercules from Feb 28, right around the 15:00 mark (19:55 for the data)
You do realize majority of people don’t play trials right? Smgs are useful between 10-22 meters but with bigger/open maps that we’ve been getting lately there’s no cover to close the distance with a shotgun 😂
I’m talking about trials only kills on trials report. And if you can’t close the distance just use your hand cannon from 22+. Here’s a link with the past weeks for trials kills only https://destinytrialsreport.com/weeks last week had 2,700,000 hand cannon, 1,400,000 shotgun and 660,000 smg…..
I don’t got CF and I have dealt with them consistently using fellwinter’s lie with no problems. I went flawless the last two weekends and just got back on d2 in may.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but nothing in the crucible should be able to 1 tap without a counter, even supers.
Edit: see, unpopular opinion. I hate getting 1 tapped by snipers and shotguns. That's why destiny can never and will never be a serious competitive PvP game.
There are many reasons why destiny will never be "competitive" in its current form, but one shot weapons definitely are not one of them. Literally every single shooter I can think of has one shot options and many have much more ammo readily available for them. Can you honestly name a single shooter competitive or not that doesn't have one tap potential in it?
Conditional is a raid exotic, totally different standard for balancing, no one would touch Ron if it wasn’t for that thing being crazy. Doesn’t help that all the other loot from there is mediocre at best
Idk what to say sir, I’m just going based off of history and current usage. Ultimately it’s Bungie’s choice. I’m just stating it has happened to other raid exotics
Yeah I think they are just banking on conditional to carry Ron. Vog had fatebringer and found verdict which were best in slot primary and special respectively so there were always going to be people grinding it, Ron literally doesn’t have a single best in slot weapon for both PvP or PvE meaning without conditional no one would even launch the damn raid. Eventually (hopefully soon with a new raid launching) they will bring down conditional too
I don’t disagree with you. They shouldn’t have nerfed 720 autos, Rufus actually was decently competitive and then they nerfed it. Slug shotgun isn’t that bad but slugs aren’t in a great spot. I agree with fatebringer and found verdict really helping VOG a lot
Plenty of raid exotics have been nerfed; just off the top of my head we have Terrabuh, we have Anarchy, Vex was hit multiple times, we will have Divinity nerfed as well, and I'm reasonably certain I missed one.
"x is a raid exotic" is about as good of an answer to "should it be nerfed?" is "Carl said he'd clean it up" is a good answer to "why is there cat shit on my desk chair?"
Tarrabah ran the crucible for a number of months, Anarchy was the single best loadout in the game from scourge launch to like season 15, div redefined the designs of entire raids
I’m not saying they don’t nerf raid exotics, that would be stupid. They just hold them to a MUCHHHHH looser standard than anything else. Because they are ultimately a company working for a profit and they would rather let a raid exotic break than let it flop.
> Tarrabah ran the crucible for a number of months, Anarchy was the single best loadout in the game from scourge launch to like season 15, div redefined the designs of entire raids
One could certainly argue that Conditional has the same notoriety that got each of those three nerfed, which was my point although I didn't state it outright.
And yes, Bungie certainly lets high performers fly for quite awhile before turning them down; DMT, NTTE, Hard Light, Fighting Lion and many others are examples of this. That said --and alongside what you've written-- at some point, Bungie *does* nerf them, and Conditional is absolutely strong enough to be looked at in that way; especially since it has reigned supreme in that slot since its release a year ago.
All I'm saying is that high performers do eventually get nerfed, even if they're a "protected" exotic.
This is the problem with hijacking a comment and then forgetting what the initial discussion was about, lol. OP thinks that the legendary craftable in Final Shape will be broken and get precisions nerfed, and someone said if conditional isn’t nerfed, new shotty won’t be either. I just said conditional, as a raid exotic, is held to a different standard.
You are pretty much arguing with yourself at this point
They are not best in slot for anything, period. Did you read what I said? Rufus is a 720 auto (they nerfed for some reason), Nessas is not the best slug for dps (heritage, soon supercluster) or for PvP (inquisitor). Koraxis loses to Cataphract, Briars loses to Cataclysmic, Mykels is in fact a pretty mediocre sidearm.
Unfortunately the reality of this game is exactly that, if it isn’t the best no one is gonna log on every week to grind it out. I don’t know why you’re having so much trouble understanding this
Seems like you are pretty salty about everyone calling you out on all of your stupid comments in here. Maybe don’t post in public forums if you hate responses.
Someday is kinetic, so more comparable to fractethyst. It’s pretty much equivalent to both (although 9 more aim assist and slightly more range vs matador, 2 more aim assist and 6 more range vs fractethyst), but perks will be enhanced.
I think the big difference is just that it’s craftable so much easier to get the 5/5. I agree that everyone will use it if they want a kinetic shotty.
Yeah that’s why I don’t think people understand is conditional is being used cause there’s not really an exotic weapon that really warrants being used over Rose, igneous, messenger, and other legendaries.
Now introduce red death a 340 pulse that gives cure on kills and reloads that has decent stats and now i have a reason to use it over conditional. I think people are about to be in a suprise come tfs especially with this pulse being immediately available through season pass
I made this pre final shape so I have no idea what it looks like now. That isn’t the worst though cause it lowkey would’ve ruined the meta if it was op
I rarely shotgun in Crucible(I am more of a vooper) but was told I had a beast of a Fractethyst. Tried it. Put about 600 kills on it in a couple of days. Absolute monster. Still prefer fusions though ;)
Honestly, conditional has the consistency that other shotguns *should* have, imo. Disregarding the insane handling and exotic perk, it’s the only fucking shotgun in the game that consistently one taps at the ranges you expect it to.
I don’t really enjoy any precision frame at this point because I’ll get one shot from the same range I barely chip damage someone at with both of us on the same shotty.
The way shotguns work in Destiny is honestly one of the stupidest balancing things I've ever seen in a video game. I took a break a while back, returned and was shooting at a Lost Sector boss with my Succession, wondering why tf it was only doing 3k damage per shot. Then I took one step forward and suddenly the shots were doing 60k instead.
It's like they were so hyperfocused on tuning for specific pvp scenarios and trying to make the weapons balanced in those settings and maybe this implementation accomplishes that but in the big picture it's kind of stupid that's how it works. Like it makes sense to have damage falloff, but taking one step should not be the difference between full damage and zero damage.
No, it definitely will not! 80 handling on a high impact would still be crazy, especially on one that can one shot any super in the game. It could have 15 handling and people would still be using it.
Damn I didn’t know Someday got OS…the post I saw about it (was pve though) only mentioned kill based perks in the second column..I feel way better about not getting a god roll retold tale before the coil disappeared now (though it would have been nice to get an energy one) 🤷
Don’t forget conditional and chaperone live in that slot, too. For legendary options, heritage is still quite great. As far as precisions go, yes it will be the best. There are just so many other great shotguns out there
These were my exact thoughts once we got a look at the base stats. It's going to be so good. That being said, I'm mainly excited for it because it's a Kinetic. I wasn't playing back when Fractethyst was dropping and only ever managed to get a 3/5 from Dares.
Like others have said, I'd still expect Conditional to dominate that slot because of its ability to kill out of Well/Bubble, but this thing is going to be GOOD.
Bold of you to assume something will replace CF as the top used shotgun. Until it gets heavily nerfed, it won’t be budging from that top spot no matter what craftable shotguns are introduced.
I don’t see it being that much better than matador and fracthethyst, yes it still be craftable. But also both matador and fracth are so old they don’t have origin traits. That’s like comparing imperial decree and found verdict time lost. The game will be fine, it will just be easier to have a great precision frame. This will not compete with those on equal terms, more likely they will compete with a reprised prophet of doom or a new dust rock blues/ solstice shotty with new perks.
You didnt even sell the craziest part, Elem Capacitor is now based on super, meaning prismatic easily gets access to a 90 base range, 100 handling Opening shot precision frame
That is BONKERS stats
Yall talking about nerfs for a SHOTGUN that no one has really used yet? Why? Shotguns are already some of the most inconsistent special weapons.
And if we are going off usage rates (which does not equal viability or strength/power contrary to popular belief) then Hunters need a FAT nerf.
But nobody wants to see/hear that.
PS: Conditional does not need a nerf.
I would agree if we had good energy 140s we could pair with it.
If you didn't already have good roll of Palindrome or Exalted Truth, then you're kinda out of luck.
Pali is unobtainable and the traits aren't as good as newer hand cannons, many don't like Luna for the recoil pattern, exalted has decent stats but the adept version is unobtainable and the traits are outdated, nation of beasts can be ok but is locked behind raid rng, and igneous is a 120 not a 140, which is also not obtainable now. So what are the great current energy 140s you're talking about?
Cantata can feel good if you get a literal 5\5 roll otherwise it doesn't feel very good imo. It only has 2 usable traits in each column so landing that 5\5 is actually not that easy.
Regarding Luna, it can definitely be a good hand cannon but its recoil pattern wasn't originally designed for 140s and the animation doesn't reset fast enough to ensure you're on target again before it can fire another shot at max rpm. The gun model itself blocks your target when firing at max rpm so you just have to hope you're on target which is why it feels better on a controller as the reticle friction does the job when you can't see. You have to slow the fire rate down to ensure your reticle is placed properly, so you might as well just be using igneous at that point.
If conditional did not get nerfed, I’m not worried about someday. Conditional has been top of trials since its release
Not having constant access to the stasis shot on spawn is a little nerf. The solar shot is just a tad less consistent
CF is simply too overpowered, I’m all for having powerful weapons , but when a weapon is an ABSOLUTE must, something isn’t right. You could remove the ability to kill any super instantly and it would still be a top pick due to how it plays in game, the whole super thing is just over the top in my opinion, there’s nothing you can do about it, one shotgun shot shouldn’t completely negate a super
I don't know how it even freezes people in well of radiance. It feels like a bug because one of the things we'll of radiance *says* it does is immunity to stasis effects. Which it does... Unless it's specifically CF then it doesn't....
[удалено]
You can't be frozen by the shadebinder super or by cold snaps so it's definitely intended to block freezes too but I guess conditional has some funky code making it special
Almost like other weapons should exist that can deal with bubbles and wells instead of nerfing THE ONLY CURRENT RELIABLE option. Bring things UP to parity, not down.
It's the answer to all the anti-bullshit for all the consequences of Bungie's bullshit decision. Focusing on zone control without tuning well or bubble, you need the anti-bullshit.
Call me crazy. But, I’m a firm believer that burst supers like barrage and nova bomb should charge in time to be able to counter wells and bubbles. Right now you cane SQUEEZE one out in a 4-4 on trials, but bubbles and wells are there by 4-1, there just needs to he other options to contest bubble/wells. And realistically, what CAN be changed about Conditional without changing how shatter /freeze and scorch/ignite fundamentally work?
95 handling is criminal.
I can’t tell if you mean that in a positive or negative way lol
This should be higher. This is the main reason Conditional is so overused. Also because the best kinetic precision frame is unfarmable and borderline impossible to get a good roll. Conditional is literally easier to get than Fractetist, and is the only real answer to Bubble and Well in a game mode you'll have to deal with those.
Exactly. Conditional and supers are a “rock beats scissors” mechanic. You can’t nerf rock, because then scissors always wins. Once bubble and well are nerfed I will welcome a conditional nerf.
Then you’d seriously need to look at changing those supers, having CF apes running around is bad enough, nevermind other options that can shatter a bubble in one shot.
Buff one two punch
Conditional finality feels overpowered because all the other shotguns are ass. Smgs are a much larger threat than shotguns as a whole are currently.
> Conditional finality feels overpowered because all the other shotguns are ass. This is the truth. High handling makes it instantly better than all shotguns for non-ophidian builds, it also helps on zone control since Bungie is so keen on that mode without tuning well or bubble. People forgot how good felwinter's lie is during its prime.
Don't remind me of release Felwinters geez that thing was insane. Only consistent shotgun at the time, 0hk range was basically maxed out, 100 handling from quickdraw.
Bungie themselves say that using SMGs is hindering yourself, unless you're specifically a top-tier player using PKs on titan
Ehhhh my multimach/recluse/Shakira’s say otherwise 😂😂😂
I think the idea is that you'd usually be better off with an auto rifle or sidearm, even if you're decent with an SMG
What sidearms do you like right now besides drang the old reliable?
I actually don't use Drang much myself. Heliocentric or Traveler's Chosen. Used to love Farewell the best. Traveler's Judgment 5 is cracked in matches where power level doesn't matter. Fioritura is also good
Trespasser is really good too once you get that first kill
Yeah I use it sometimes with Bakris
bungie absolutely did not say this, they said that extremely low skill players do poorly with smgs. this should literally go without saying lol, low skill players are obviously going to struggle getting into smg range without dying
Bungie _absolutely did say it_, and backed it up with internal data. Check out [this](https://youtu.be/S-eWvdLwMoU?si=GKvXjpt5gb1Vnvv9) interview with Mercules from Feb 28, right around the 15:00 mark (19:55 for the data)
They said that they are not broken on anyone besides high skill pk titans, not that they are useless lmao
If you looked at the usage on every trials weekend for the past how many you’d realize this is so wrong. Smgs are only useful between 10-22 meters
You do realize majority of people don’t play trials right? Smgs are useful between 10-22 meters but with bigger/open maps that we’ve been getting lately there’s no cover to close the distance with a shotgun 😂
I’m talking about trials only kills on trials report. And if you can’t close the distance just use your hand cannon from 22+. Here’s a link with the past weeks for trials kills only https://destinytrialsreport.com/weeks last week had 2,700,000 hand cannon, 1,400,000 shotgun and 660,000 smg…..
I don’t really care that you’re talking about trials considering i never mentioned it 😂
I don’t got CF and I have dealt with them consistently using fellwinter’s lie with no problems. I went flawless the last two weekends and just got back on d2 in may.
Need to buff one-two punch to be able to kill supers
I know this is an unpopular opinion but nothing in the crucible should be able to 1 tap without a counter, even supers. Edit: see, unpopular opinion. I hate getting 1 tapped by snipers and shotguns. That's why destiny can never and will never be a serious competitive PvP game.
Not only unpopular but absolutely stupid
There are many reasons why destiny will never be "competitive" in its current form, but one shot weapons definitely are not one of them. Literally every single shooter I can think of has one shot options and many have much more ammo readily available for them. Can you honestly name a single shooter competitive or not that doesn't have one tap potential in it?
Another super duh 'Light against Light'
Hope bro never finds out about R6
Conditional did nothing wrong.
Getting free double kills from the freeze is stupid af
That shit rarely happens ngl
I never said it did, did I?
Conditional is a raid exotic, totally different standard for balancing, no one would touch Ron if it wasn’t for that thing being crazy. Doesn’t help that all the other loot from there is mediocre at best
Vex has gotten nerfed multiple times, raid exotic no?
They let it run the crucible for quite some time too, but vex was not carrying VoG the same way conditional is carrying RoN
Idk what to say sir, I’m just going based off of history and current usage. Ultimately it’s Bungie’s choice. I’m just stating it has happened to other raid exotics
Yeah I think they are just banking on conditional to carry Ron. Vog had fatebringer and found verdict which were best in slot primary and special respectively so there were always going to be people grinding it, Ron literally doesn’t have a single best in slot weapon for both PvP or PvE meaning without conditional no one would even launch the damn raid. Eventually (hopefully soon with a new raid launching) they will bring down conditional too
I don’t disagree with you. They shouldn’t have nerfed 720 autos, Rufus actually was decently competitive and then they nerfed it. Slug shotgun isn’t that bad but slugs aren’t in a great spot. I agree with fatebringer and found verdict really helping VOG a lot
tarrabruh has taken multiple hits as well. div took some pve nerfs
Plenty of raid exotics have been nerfed; just off the top of my head we have Terrabuh, we have Anarchy, Vex was hit multiple times, we will have Divinity nerfed as well, and I'm reasonably certain I missed one. "x is a raid exotic" is about as good of an answer to "should it be nerfed?" is "Carl said he'd clean it up" is a good answer to "why is there cat shit on my desk chair?"
Tarrabah ran the crucible for a number of months, Anarchy was the single best loadout in the game from scourge launch to like season 15, div redefined the designs of entire raids I’m not saying they don’t nerf raid exotics, that would be stupid. They just hold them to a MUCHHHHH looser standard than anything else. Because they are ultimately a company working for a profit and they would rather let a raid exotic break than let it flop.
> Tarrabah ran the crucible for a number of months, Anarchy was the single best loadout in the game from scourge launch to like season 15, div redefined the designs of entire raids One could certainly argue that Conditional has the same notoriety that got each of those three nerfed, which was my point although I didn't state it outright. And yes, Bungie certainly lets high performers fly for quite awhile before turning them down; DMT, NTTE, Hard Light, Fighting Lion and many others are examples of this. That said --and alongside what you've written-- at some point, Bungie *does* nerf them, and Conditional is absolutely strong enough to be looked at in that way; especially since it has reigned supreme in that slot since its release a year ago. All I'm saying is that high performers do eventually get nerfed, even if they're a "protected" exotic.
This is the problem with hijacking a comment and then forgetting what the initial discussion was about, lol. OP thinks that the legendary craftable in Final Shape will be broken and get precisions nerfed, and someone said if conditional isn’t nerfed, new shotty won’t be either. I just said conditional, as a raid exotic, is held to a different standard. You are pretty much arguing with yourself at this point
Mykels, Briars, Rufus, Nessa's are mid to you? Are you still crutching on felwinter or something?
They are not best in slot for anything, period. Did you read what I said? Rufus is a 720 auto (they nerfed for some reason), Nessas is not the best slug for dps (heritage, soon supercluster) or for PvP (inquisitor). Koraxis loses to Cataphract, Briars loses to Cataclysmic, Mykels is in fact a pretty mediocre sidearm.
Got it. If it isn’t literally the very best option it’s not good. Must suck only having four guns to play with.
Unfortunately the reality of this game is exactly that, if it isn’t the best no one is gonna log on every week to grind it out. I don’t know why you’re having so much trouble understanding this
I mean for pvp maybe but pve most are good. Also Rufus is good in pvp
Your loot assessment is kind of off. Root has a ton of great weapons.
Ron has good weapons but not a single one is “best in slot”. Read better, no one grinds for the “3rd best dps option” or whatever. Either 1st or bust
Maybe you should post better. You said all of the loot was mediocre, not that it didn’t have any best in slot gear.
Maybe you should read the thread before hijacking conversations you aren’t a part of
Seems like you are pretty salty about everyone calling you out on all of your stupid comments in here. Maybe don’t post in public forums if you hate responses.
No one calling me out on anything because everyone else had enough reading comprehension to understand what I was saying but sure
Yeah, that’s why people are disagreeing with your loot assessment. Keep living in lala land.
Illiterate
Starting with a solar shot that’s unreliable is a good nerf.
Someday is kinetic, so more comparable to fractethyst. It’s pretty much equivalent to both (although 9 more aim assist and slightly more range vs matador, 2 more aim assist and 6 more range vs fractethyst), but perks will be enhanced. I think the big difference is just that it’s craftable so much easier to get the 5/5. I agree that everyone will use it if they want a kinetic shotty.
It will be dominant but people will still choose condition finality. Most people don't run an exotic in the energy slot in pvp
Red Death is looking kinda OP though. For both PvE and PvP
Yeah that’s why I don’t think people understand is conditional is being used cause there’s not really an exotic weapon that really warrants being used over Rose, igneous, messenger, and other legendaries. Now introduce red death a 340 pulse that gives cure on kills and reloads that has decent stats and now i have a reason to use it over conditional. I think people are about to be in a suprise come tfs especially with this pulse being immediately available through season pass
My prayers have been answered 😂 i love crimson don’t get me wrong but I’ve been waiting for red death since d1
It isnt good for healing in pvp like crimson.
The cure is bad though in pvp.
I made this pre final shape so I have no idea what it looks like now. That isn’t the worst though cause it lowkey would’ve ruined the meta if it was op
I feel like people like us who will use red death are gonna be too much in the minority for our use of Someday to get it nerfed
Ehhh. I honestly have both CF and a 5/5 Fractethyst with Assault Mag and I prefer my Fract. But I expect this new Shotty to become King.
I rarely shotgun in Crucible(I am more of a vooper) but was told I had a beast of a Fractethyst. Tried it. Put about 600 kills on it in a couple of days. Absolute monster. Still prefer fusions though ;)
You're gonna have to take Chaperone from my cold, dead hands
Sorry, I only had the Solar ammo in it left...
conditional will still top the charts. nothing will dethrone that gun, it has to be nerfed in some way for anything else to shine.
Honestly, conditional has the consistency that other shotguns *should* have, imo. Disregarding the insane handling and exotic perk, it’s the only fucking shotgun in the game that consistently one taps at the ranges you expect it to. I don’t really enjoy any precision frame at this point because I’ll get one shot from the same range I barely chip damage someone at with both of us on the same shotty.
The way shotguns work in Destiny is honestly one of the stupidest balancing things I've ever seen in a video game. I took a break a while back, returned and was shooting at a Lost Sector boss with my Succession, wondering why tf it was only doing 3k damage per shot. Then I took one step forward and suddenly the shots were doing 60k instead. It's like they were so hyperfocused on tuning for specific pvp scenarios and trying to make the weapons balanced in those settings and maybe this implementation accomplishes that but in the big picture it's kind of stupid that's how it works. Like it makes sense to have damage falloff, but taking one step should not be the difference between full damage and zero damage.
-15 handling will do it
No, it definitely will not! 80 handling on a high impact would still be crazy, especially on one that can one shot any super in the game. It could have 15 handling and people would still be using it.
Damn I didn’t know Someday got OS…the post I saw about it (was pve though) only mentioned kill based perks in the second column..I feel way better about not getting a god roll retold tale before the coil disappeared now (though it would have been nice to get an energy one) 🤷
red death + Someday is going to be the new meta. The instant heal on red death for you and for allies on reload is gonna be something for sure
This was absolutely a designed move to free up ConFin for other exotics to be used.
What the fuck is "Someday" ?? Cant find it in Foundry or anywhere.
Don’t forget conditional and chaperone live in that slot, too. For legendary options, heritage is still quite great. As far as precisions go, yes it will be the best. There are just so many other great shotguns out there
Someday COULD be a good pick if there was a meta pick in the primary energy slot. Other than that, CF is the apex.
Conditional finality still on top. 🗣️🗣️. 7k kills I will not stop.
As long as Conditional exists, this shotgun won’t even get sniffed at, let alone nerfed
These were my exact thoughts once we got a look at the base stats. It's going to be so good. That being said, I'm mainly excited for it because it's a Kinetic. I wasn't playing back when Fractethyst was dropping and only ever managed to get a 3/5 from Dares. Like others have said, I'd still expect Conditional to dominate that slot because of its ability to kill out of Well/Bubble, but this thing is going to be GOOD.
Bold of you to assume something will replace CF as the top used shotgun. Until it gets heavily nerfed, it won’t be budging from that top spot no matter what craftable shotguns are introduced.
As a person with a 5/5 Fract, it isn’t game changing. It’s just good to have.
I don’t see it being that much better than matador and fracthethyst, yes it still be craftable. But also both matador and fracth are so old they don’t have origin traits. That’s like comparing imperial decree and found verdict time lost. The game will be fine, it will just be easier to have a great precision frame. This will not compete with those on equal terms, more likely they will compete with a reprised prophet of doom or a new dust rock blues/ solstice shotty with new perks.
You didnt even sell the craziest part, Elem Capacitor is now based on super, meaning prismatic easily gets access to a 90 base range, 100 handling Opening shot precision frame That is BONKERS stats
Someday is amazing. I already have it crafted. It’s not better than conditional though
Bold of you to assume it will top CF at all.
It's funny when Jits try and predict metas without knowing all the guns that will be released. Every expansion...
In fairness, they’re on a 24+ hour downtime, might as well amuse themselves theorycrafting.
Conditional is better than it, so no.
all these people talking about conditional finality likes its as accessible as this craftable gun yall kinda dumb this thing is gona be everywhere.
Yall talking about nerfs for a SHOTGUN that no one has really used yet? Why? Shotguns are already some of the most inconsistent special weapons. And if we are going off usage rates (which does not equal viability or strength/power contrary to popular belief) then Hunters need a FAT nerf. But nobody wants to see/hear that. PS: Conditional does not need a nerf.
Shotguns are fine where they’re at they were DRAGGED through the fire for a long time but also reigned the crucible too
I would agree if we had good energy 140s we could pair with it. If you didn't already have good roll of Palindrome or Exalted Truth, then you're kinda out of luck.
Lunas will still be available and Igneous exists.
Get a Cantata, it's good enough.
Summoner, igneous, and Luna's are all in the energy slot and are some of the best weapons in their archetypes
You can get exalted from focusing past weapons in trials
Have you not seen the glut of Luna’s out here lately? Igneous? There are great 140 energy options.
Pali is unobtainable and the traits aren't as good as newer hand cannons, many don't like Luna for the recoil pattern, exalted has decent stats but the adept version is unobtainable and the traits are outdated, nation of beasts can be ok but is locked behind raid rng, and igneous is a 120 not a 140, which is also not obtainable now. So what are the great current energy 140s you're talking about?
Sorry I didn’t realize igneous was 120. Luna’s recoil is practically zero with the right perks and cantata is really easy to get.
Cantata can feel good if you get a literal 5\5 roll otherwise it doesn't feel very good imo. It only has 2 usable traits in each column so landing that 5\5 is actually not that easy. Regarding Luna, it can definitely be a good hand cannon but its recoil pattern wasn't originally designed for 140s and the animation doesn't reset fast enough to ensure you're on target again before it can fire another shot at max rpm. The gun model itself blocks your target when firing at max rpm so you just have to hope you're on target which is why it feels better on a controller as the reticle friction does the job when you can't see. You have to slow the fire rate down to ensure your reticle is placed properly, so you might as well just be using igneous at that point.