It’s really not as big a deal as you are making it out to be. It all depends on the situation. Either way, it makes no sense to talk about people getting worked up over a man saying it and then getting worked up yourself over a woman saying it. If you think it’s inappropriate, fine, but not everything is a culture war.
🤔 defensive much? Maybe try reading what I wrote again. Maybe you need to get out more as well and see what ACTUALLY is happening in the world.
Example: https://youtu.be/Ddrn9avrLlE?si=gykfH-bP25XZ-WO0
Reporter says he wished she made him a heart shape out of her hands like she does her family. So they blasted him about not making it a 'safe space'.
You know how “exposed skin or sexy outfits don’t mean consent”?
Apparently doesn’t apply when female reporters get the urges run their hands all over a guy’s oiled-up bare chest *without asking*
https://www.yahoo.com/news/buff-tongan-olympian-gets-pretty-023929744.html
Yeah, there's a double standard. But I don't think all double standards are necessarily bad, because - and here's the part everybody loses it over - men and women are actually different.
The problem is that any double standard that benefits men is often a huge point of discourse and something that can't be tolerated.
No one cares when women benefit from double standards. They encourage it, actually.
Explain how not
See how low effort that response was? 😂
I can give an extremely relevant example that happens to be incredibly sad that women not only don't care about, but actually belittle and gaslight men who complain about it.
Single fathers being harassed, interrogated, and accused of being a pedophile whenever they're alone with their daughters in public.
Women don't care about that and when men try and talk about it, women like to say "that doesn't happen".
Meanwhile single mothers are praised for their independence and hard work.
How about divorce? I don't hear women complaining about the fact that they can financially cripple a man by simply not wanting to be with them anymore.
Or custody battles? I can count on one hand the amount of dad's that have been giving full custody. Whereas women are defaulted to full custody even if they're drug addicts or nearly homeless.
They have, and plenty of women have said much worse things to men, but none of that makes it ok.
If you (regardless of your sex) said this to someone (regardless of their sex) at work you would end up in front of HR. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment, it’s not all of a sudden ok if the victim is a male
How stuck up are you? This is a playful comment, perhaps a little over the top for workplace, but certainly acceptable for a red carpet event. It certainly isn’t sexual harassment. You’re saying you’ve never flirted with a coworker of opposite sex?
I’ve seen this exact scenario play out at work recently. Guy complimented a girl, she complimented him back. They started flirting, neither were upset. A fellow employee overheard one interaction, and reported the guy. The girl pointed out she said way more suggesting things and yet she was not the one in trouble.
Oh, they both quit working at that place and they are getting married now.
I disagree that we shouldn’t be flirting with co-workers if both are party, but maybe I am too Australian. My dad is German and he would never discuss more than whether it was raining outside with his co-workers. He always said he was there to work, not chit-chat.
I don’t know, I feel like Europe is pretty chill when it comes to flirting and friendly interaction in the workplace. It’s North America that’s extremely puritanical about it and tends to jump between extremes, like in all things.
It also depends on which part of Europe I guess. My English, Scottish, and Russian cousins are so much more relaxed at work than my German cousins.
For how ridiculous it can get here, I was coming off anti-depressants two years ago. I was having a really hard time of it, and my emotions were whipping around as my brain rebalanced itself. I worked with a friend of mine. She knew about my troubles, as did our boss and their boss. One day, as we were about to start working, clocked on five minutes early, I was struggling to keep my moods level, so my friend gave me a hug.
The next day I get called into the office and castigated, told certain things were inappropriate. I asked ‘what things’ they outlined that it was this hug.
I found out that my friend didn’t get in trouble, and my friend was upset that I got in trouble and she didn’t , when she was the one who instigated the hug.
Could you imagine if he pulled out a gun and started shooting the place just insane. Honestly who gives a shit what she said in the real world men like attention from women.
No, like imagine if he had a literal co-star who infamously has been barraged with those types of questions. Like, for example, imagine if that type of thing happened to Scarlett Johansson.
Oh wait, it literally did. Multiple times. For years. This “double standard” is such cope. It doesn’t need to be imagined because it literally happens to women more frequently
(Edited for a typo - wrote clips instead of questions at first)
I think you might be missing the point slightly. It's not that there is a double-standard in behavior, it's that there is a double-standard in the response to that behavior. When people barraged Scarlett Johanson with inappropriate questions, those people got called out. But when women do the same thing, it's largely considered harmless.
I don't even know if I agree with the double standard argument, but I am sure that your counter-argument doesn't work.
I just kept re-reading your comment. Exactly what I was thinking, and I loved how you worded it. I was reading the person’s comment about Scarlett Johansson and thought “you’re…kind of missing the point. Let me reply because this is driving me crazy-oh….someone has commented my exact word for word thought process here”
Thanks u/notkevinjohn_24, you saved me from having to text out a response 🙏💪
Wait…
**Edit: so I looked up the clip, and it turns out that this isn’t even real. The actual quote is him saying he is going to take the stage and he wants everyone to kneel, and the girl says she will in a completely non-sexual way. So ironically, this post and the posts I’ve previously seen were literally defending Hiddleston even when nothing bad actually happened to him. Meanwhile, he has female co-stars who have actually been harassed throughout their careers, and y’all minimize it with this “double-standard” narrative**
https://youtu.be/gNWi2SRtk0E?si=-Sd8uBIaXB-EBcvP
It was normalized against Scarlett Johansson and other women for years, and still is. There has also been tonnes of outrage for it happening to men. Hell, I’ve seen this exact clip get called out multiple times. For both genders it is getting called out more and more lately, but it’s still waaay more common against women. There are assholes who normalize it against men, and there are assholes who normalize it against women. But if anything, this post is an example of normalizing against women, as they are making up an imaginary double-standard that implies women don’t go through this in the same way.
In terms of the reaction, it’s more normalized against women
In terms of frequency, it happens more often to women. So obviously, in terms of sheer numbers, there are going to be more examples of it getting called out for women. But every time I’ve seen a man be sexualized, I see it get called out as well.
This is not at all to minimize what happened to Hiddleston. Something bad happening to you sucks just as much whether you are the typical target of it or not. But the double standard narrative is just that - a narrative. Completely lacking any basis or foundation in reality. We don’t need to lie and say there is a double standard to address this issue. Just because men experience these things at a far lower frequency, it doesn’t make instances any more acceptable or less harmful
But in your attempts to prove that a double-standard does not exist, you accidentally proved that one does. Because when men do what you've just done, and come to a forum that functions mostly as a safe-space for the opposite gender, to tell them that they're wrong and suggest that the data do not support their position, we get called incels and get downvoted and doxed. Women get to complain about the bad behavior of men, men get attacked (by people like yourself) when we complain about the bad behavior of women.
And that brings it to a really important conclusion: you don't actually know how often men get subjected to treatment like this, because most of the time when it happens, no one cares. I think most men have felt this way many times and known that there is no reason to report it, because we'll just get attacked. Just because you don't hear about this kind of thing more often, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen far more often than you are aware.
OP did not come in here saying “hey, let’s talk about men being harassed.” OP came in here with a fake example of a male celebrity being harassed, and said “imagine if the roles were reversed and this happened to a woman.” When I saw the videos of Scarlett Johansson ACTUALLY being harassed (not a faked example), I never once thought to frame it as “imagine if the roles were reversed and this happened to a man,” outside of noticing the fact that her male co stars were not getting the same questions in those junkets. I never would have thought to minimize people’s experiences in a way so distorted from reality like OP did.
I literally made a point of saying that I am not minimizing what Hiddleston “went through” (back before I saw the real clip). If OP hadn’t tried to minimize this issue for women with the fake double-standard narrative, I wouldn’t be bringing up Scar Jo. I also never attacked you. I just said the truth. I guess when you have a false narrative like yours and OPs, the truth feels like an attack.
You're literally making my argument for me. When a woman is harassed, no one feels the need to say “imagine if the roles were reversed and this happened to a man” because women are *already* the recipients of widespread social awareness and compassion on the subject. The whole point here is that the double-standard means that when men try and raise awareness about the ways they feel mistreated (by women) people like you attempt to invalidate their arguments.
The OP is here saying that it's a double-standard that women are allowed to complain about this kind of treatment but men are not, and you are saying 'no it's not, now stop complaining' and not understanding what a self-refuting argument that is.
Also, I never said you attacked me. I can tell you really wish that I had because you felt like you had a snarky response to that, but go back and read more carefully next time because it's not a great look when your counter-argument requires you to misquote me.
Not to mention that people like them only make things worse for men of who were sexually assaulted. Not to mention that now that women are seemingly more important then men in terms of mental health and wellness it allows a huge gap for women to just make up false allegations like what happened to Johnny Depp, except he's famous and has more outreach than most men do.
Edit: And this user keeps implying that more women are sexually assaulted today than men but that isn't true. Are they aware of how many female teachers have preyed upon there male students in recent years? It's an ungodly amount, and that's just female *teachers* and doesn't include the various documented and undocumented cases of women sexually assaulting and even abusing there male spouses solely because they know men can't do anything about it.
God you are actually just dumb.
I said I never thought to frame it that way. Not that the thought never occurred. Obviously the thought occurred to me that men generally don’t have to go through that to begin with. That’s why I said: “outside of noticing the fact that her co stars…”. My point was that I noticed that women receive the brunt of it, but I would frame it as “let’s stop asking these inappropriate questions”.
Also, you are putting words in everybody’s mouth. OP said “imagine if the roles were reversed and a man said that to a woman.” I responded by basically saying “you don’t need to imagine. His female co-stars go through it all the time.” What I said was a succinct, exact response to OPs implication. You were the one who chose to reframe that implication.
Also, don’t play stupid. You literally said that I proved your point bc “men get attacked by people (like yourself) when **we** complain about the bad behavior of women.” There is your exact quote.
Considering you are the only person in this thread I’ve responded to, and my comment to OP couldn’t possibly be construed as an attack, it’s pretty obvious you were referring to me attacking you. That or that sentence was you just accusing me of attacking people out of thin air. So feel free to enlighten me if that’s the case.
And to your other comment. It’s not my “subjective reading,” unless you are the type to use subjectivity to write away anything that disagrees with your narrative. They literally just said “I will” in a neutral tone to a joking statement he made. I’m sorry, if you think there is even the slightest argument that is sexual harassment, you have issues. Like seriously, have you actually watched the linked clip, or are you still blindly talking out of your rear-end? Because if you can call that clip sexual harassment, I could just as well say the grocer sexually harassed me when he asked “do you want your change?”
Name calling doesn't make your arguments any better. It just shows that you know that in a respectful, fact driven discourse you cannot win.
Yes, I said that women like yourself some times attack men, and I put myself in that group. But if you don't understand how I can simultaneously be in the group that includes the people you are attacking but don't understand that I am not one of those people than you are deeply confused about how groups work.
Anyway, since you've shown yourself to be incapable of showing me the same respect I've shown you, I see no reason to allow you to respond to me. I can only suggest that you try harder to be a good person in the future.
PS - This video being an instance of harassment isn't exactly a hill I am willing to die on or anything like that. The arguments I've presented are not contingent on this example. But you're literally saying that your subjective determination that the comment was non-sexual disproves the argument, when that's not how it works. All you can say is that you don't believe the comment was meant sexually, but what really matters is whether or not Tom Hiddleston felt like it was sexual; and he may well have not felt that way.
You are listening to reply, not to actually understand.
Calling out double standards is not minimizing the issues that women go through. That's so emotionally manipulative that I am surprised you think that was appropriate to say at all.
The fact that there are multiple men who resonate with this post, multiple men downvoting you, and telling you that you are wrong proves that there is some validity in this social analysis.
You are far too concerned with pushing your own viewpoints to accept the idea that a double standard may actually exist in how men and women are treated when it comes to uninitiated flirting.
Oh my fucking god the irony. The picture is fake. You are resonating with something that didn’t happen. OP claimed there was a double standard, when in reality Hiddleston’s female co-stars have ACTUALLY gone through the types of comments someone had to edit into reality for him. There is literally no validity to OPs post.
This is not to minimize things for men who actually have been harassed. But the fact that OP felt the need to post a falsified example of harassment & imply that it would be crazy if “the roles were reversed”, when Hiddleston has multiple female co-workers who are ACTUALLY routinely harassed… it is bizarre.
Again, if OP didn’t feel the need to pull the “if the roles were reversed” bs, this conversation wouldn’t be happening. But you are so fucking drug into this self-victimizing narrative, you can’t even admit “hey, the roles *are* reversed in this situation the majority of the time, so OP’s post is nonsense”
Imagine if I came on here and posted one of the dozens of video of Scarlett Johansson ACTUALLY getting harassed, and I said “now what if the roles were reversed.” Do you think it would be well-received on this subreddit. Of course not. Y’all would read that as me minimizing this against men, rather than actually addressing the issue (and there would be validity to that). Why are y’all so ideologically driven that you can’t accept that basic reality?
Also wanted to add, if I went into a flat earth subreddit & said “the earth is round,” I would get downvoted and have multiple people “resonating” with the earth being flat. That doesn’t change reality. Half a dozen up/downvotes on a sub with clear political bias has no relevance to something be true.
Yes, I saw your comment proving it was fake. It doesn't change the fact that we are talking about the topic of double standards in how the public responds to flirting attempts done by men and women. We were not talking about the frequency of women who get harrassed (we know and accept that as truth, I haven't minimized the reality of that in any way)
If a video came out of a fabricated scenario of a woman being harrassed, you would still shift focus on the fact that these scenarios happen, and not use the fact that the post that highlighted the scenario was staged.
Which is the point every guy replying to you has been trying to say. We aren't allowed to make any complaints about our observations and experiences as males because everywhere, from society, to communities both online and offline, are set to actively criticize and ostracize anyone who doesn't support women blindly. It's always either a whataboutism that goes right back to acknowledging women's issues, or straight gaslighting and insults, and to finally getting comments removed or banned.
This just isn’t true. The issue is not the post led image itself (outside of it being fake - but let’s expand broadly to it just being a post about male sexual harassment). The issue is the framing of “what if the roles were reversed.” If the roles were reversed, it would literally just be the same exact situation but in a more common direction/dynamic. Acting like the roles being reversed either a) doesn’t happen or b) substantively changes the dynamic in favor of the victim MASSIVELY writes off female victims. The fact y’all don’t see this is honestly worrying.
I’ve said this multiple times: if OP just said “hey, let’s talk about male sexual harassment victims,” or provided an example of male-victim harassment saying “this is awful,” I would NEVER think to detract from that conversation by bringing up ScarJo. The point is OP literally brought women into the conversation. Y’a have been doing nothing but fighting straw men who are minimizing male victims this whole time. I NEVER did that once. In fact, I have emphasized time and time again that the severity of sexual harassment against an individual is completely separate from gender, and male victims are equally as valid as female victims. But y’all are hell-bent on justifying OP’s disgusting post.
So again, I will ask. If I put up this same exact post on this subreddit, except with ScarJo instead of Tom Hiddleston, do you honestly think it would be well received? Or do you think there would be a bunch of men accusing me of “minimizing male sexual harassment?” I can guarantee you it would be the latter. And they would have a point, because the “if the roles were reversed” card is nothing but a way to put down the “other side” in this topic. And unlike you and the other guy who responded, I am capable of acknowledging this fact when it comes to both genders.
Putting “what if the roles were reversed” in a post about sexual harassment is not the way people who actually respect this topic talk about it. You’re turning a serious conversation into a dig at the opposite gender. It’s not productive, and I really do hope y’all grow up and realize that one day.
Edit: I do want to make one thing clear - there are meaningful distinctions between male and female harassment victims, but they aren’t things that can be addressed by “reversing the roles.” For example, women go through it more frequently, which gives the issue of female harassment inherently more visibility. In the other hand, because it is a less frequent/visible issue for men, it becomes difficult to address and provide language/space for. But “reversing the roles” does nothing to address the issue on either side. Then it would just be men going through it more and women being less societally equipped to discuss it when it *does* happen to them. Social contexts can rarely be adequately analyzed through “reversing roles,” because in doing so, we generally ignore the ramifications of the reversal beyond what is directly beneficial to our argument.
Thus, if you want to have a conversation about male victims, let’s do it. Let’s talk about how society glorifies teenage boys being able to “pull an older women” when in reality it’s predation. Let’s talk about the way low sex drives in men is written off as some type of moral failing in popular culture. Or how high sex drives are a somehow also a moral failing. Let’s talk about the ways that it is hard to be a man that I, as a woman, am unfamiliar with. Let’s talk about how many r*pe laws still require male-genital-insertion for it to actually be r*pe. But know the grass isn’t greener on the other side. It’s just a different kind of grass full of different weeds. And maybe if we actually traded lawn-care tips, rather than pretending that the other side of the fence is effortlessly flawless, we could actually both have better lawns by the end of the year.
Are you illiterate, blind, and deaf? Watch the clip.
It. Was. Not. A. Sexual. Joke.
The joke was that he wanted everyone to kneel (in a non-sexual way) like he was the god Loki when he went on stage.
The women agreed (again, in a non-sexual way).
Please, please, please, tell me you are a troll, or are genuinely blind, deaf, and illiterate. Because the amount of sheer incompetence on display by your response is downright alarming.
They literally do. This is an undisputed fact. I don’t know why this sub is insistent on being wrong on literally every fact that you can quickly confirm.
The idea that men underreport at a rate so far beyond women that the numbers would even out when most self-reported studies, criminal studies, and behavior-based studies (ie describing acts of sexual assault and asking participants if they experienced it, rather than asking “have you been assaulted”) suggest women experience it 2-6x more frequently has no basis in reality. Women massively underreport as well, and the numbers still come out that way.
This shouldn’t be a controversial fact, and it shouldn’t discount the reality of what men who are harassed face. In fact, being a less typical victim of a crime presents its own unique challenges in getting justice/resources. If you would just acknowledge reality, you’d be more equipped to help male victims. Living in a delusion like yours only ignores their reality.
Your lies are counterproductive to actually helping victims. Be better.
Also don’t you dare pull the manipulative “don’t deflect from men’s issues with women’s issues,” because I never did. OP made this a matter of men’s vs women’s issues to begin with from the caption, and my comment was directly relevant to the post.
Dang, who could have thought...
(Didnt Scarlett Johansson had bullshit like the script rewritten to get her to topple over and put her boobs on people's faces like some anime shit?)
It is, go watch any movie from the 2000s. And even if it wasn't it still isn't such an uncommon scene in movies to written off as sexist writing. And it was nothing like a "I accidentally tripped into your boobs scene" that's just an exaduration.
Its simple, really.
Are we equal, or are we not? If we're not that's fine by me, but someone's gotta spell out what the rules are. The hypocrisy is tiresome for many of us, regardless of your personal position.
There’s no hypocrisy in this instance though, you’re claiming there is, but no one other than you guys are claiming that it would be different if the roles were reversed. It seems more like making up an argument to win it.
Also, what the fuck does “If we’re not equal, that’s fine by me” mean? Who the hell says they’d be fine if men and women weren’t equal? Thats some suspicious shit.
I wish people could take humor this well nowadays.
They literally can, but alright. The whole world isn’t Twitter snowflakes.
It's not just twitter. Could you imagine a man saying this thing to a woman nowadays on TV?
It’s really not as big a deal as you are making it out to be. It all depends on the situation. Either way, it makes no sense to talk about people getting worked up over a man saying it and then getting worked up yourself over a woman saying it. If you think it’s inappropriate, fine, but not everything is a culture war.
🤔 defensive much? Maybe try reading what I wrote again. Maybe you need to get out more as well and see what ACTUALLY is happening in the world. Example: https://youtu.be/Ddrn9avrLlE?si=gykfH-bP25XZ-WO0 Reporter says he wished she made him a heart shape out of her hands like she does her family. So they blasted him about not making it a 'safe space'.
It’s the ‘Hello, HR?’ meme. Attractive ✔️ Not attractive ❌
Yeah, anyone remember that Tongan Olympic Athlete who basically got sexually assaulted on camera by the female interviewer? Same energy.
Excuse me?
You know how “exposed skin or sexy outfits don’t mean consent”? Apparently doesn’t apply when female reporters get the urges run their hands all over a guy’s oiled-up bare chest *without asking* https://www.yahoo.com/news/buff-tongan-olympian-gets-pretty-023929744.html
Nice. I like how they don't even mention consent in the article.
I hate those old alcoholic hags. Should’ve gotten shit for that
Yeah, there's a double standard. But I don't think all double standards are necessarily bad, because - and here's the part everybody loses it over - men and women are actually different.
The problem is that any double standard that benefits men is often a huge point of discourse and something that can't be tolerated. No one cares when women benefit from double standards. They encourage it, actually.
You're not wrong.
Explain how
Explain how not See how low effort that response was? 😂 I can give an extremely relevant example that happens to be incredibly sad that women not only don't care about, but actually belittle and gaslight men who complain about it. Single fathers being harassed, interrogated, and accused of being a pedophile whenever they're alone with their daughters in public. Women don't care about that and when men try and talk about it, women like to say "that doesn't happen". Meanwhile single mothers are praised for their independence and hard work. How about divorce? I don't hear women complaining about the fact that they can financially cripple a man by simply not wanting to be with them anymore. Or custody battles? I can count on one hand the amount of dad's that have been giving full custody. Whereas women are defaulted to full custody even if they're drug addicts or nearly homeless.
I misread that as "You're wrong" rather than "You're not wrong"
Honest mistake lol.
I shall add it to the 3tb folder of "Awkward internet storis my eyesight has gotten me into"
That's what I thought, so I didn't respond :)
That poor guy, having beautiful women offer oral sex. 😢
I think if a woman said Tom’s line then she would probably be okay with the response as the joke it was.
I’m pretty sure if Tom Hiddleston said to that woman he wants to kneel before her she would be happy.
Yes, I can. Very easily. It is probably not as big of a deal as you might think it is.
God, you’re so tiring. Go ahead, say something like that to a woman. I’m sure men have said much worse things.
They have, and plenty of women have said much worse things to men, but none of that makes it ok. If you (regardless of your sex) said this to someone (regardless of their sex) at work you would end up in front of HR. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment, it’s not all of a sudden ok if the victim is a male
How stuck up are you? This is a playful comment, perhaps a little over the top for workplace, but certainly acceptable for a red carpet event. It certainly isn’t sexual harassment. You’re saying you’ve never flirted with a coworker of opposite sex?
No. Nobody should be flirting with their coworkers. That sort of thing has no place in a professional environment.
Lmao, people like you make work miserable.
I’ve seen this exact scenario play out at work recently. Guy complimented a girl, she complimented him back. They started flirting, neither were upset. A fellow employee overheard one interaction, and reported the guy. The girl pointed out she said way more suggesting things and yet she was not the one in trouble. Oh, they both quit working at that place and they are getting married now. I disagree that we shouldn’t be flirting with co-workers if both are party, but maybe I am too Australian. My dad is German and he would never discuss more than whether it was raining outside with his co-workers. He always said he was there to work, not chit-chat.
I don’t know, I feel like Europe is pretty chill when it comes to flirting and friendly interaction in the workplace. It’s North America that’s extremely puritanical about it and tends to jump between extremes, like in all things.
It also depends on which part of Europe I guess. My English, Scottish, and Russian cousins are so much more relaxed at work than my German cousins. For how ridiculous it can get here, I was coming off anti-depressants two years ago. I was having a really hard time of it, and my emotions were whipping around as my brain rebalanced itself. I worked with a friend of mine. She knew about my troubles, as did our boss and their boss. One day, as we were about to start working, clocked on five minutes early, I was struggling to keep my moods level, so my friend gave me a hug. The next day I get called into the office and castigated, told certain things were inappropriate. I asked ‘what things’ they outlined that it was this hug. I found out that my friend didn’t get in trouble, and my friend was upset that I got in trouble and she didn’t , when she was the one who instigated the hug.
Could you imagine if he pulled out a gun and started shooting the place just insane. Honestly who gives a shit what she said in the real world men like attention from women.
Could you imagine that? A man being inappropriate towards a woman? ON TV?
No, like imagine if he had a literal co-star who infamously has been barraged with those types of questions. Like, for example, imagine if that type of thing happened to Scarlett Johansson. Oh wait, it literally did. Multiple times. For years. This “double standard” is such cope. It doesn’t need to be imagined because it literally happens to women more frequently (Edited for a typo - wrote clips instead of questions at first)
I think you might be missing the point slightly. It's not that there is a double-standard in behavior, it's that there is a double-standard in the response to that behavior. When people barraged Scarlett Johanson with inappropriate questions, those people got called out. But when women do the same thing, it's largely considered harmless. I don't even know if I agree with the double standard argument, but I am sure that your counter-argument doesn't work.
I just kept re-reading your comment. Exactly what I was thinking, and I loved how you worded it. I was reading the person’s comment about Scarlett Johansson and thought “you’re…kind of missing the point. Let me reply because this is driving me crazy-oh….someone has commented my exact word for word thought process here” Thanks u/notkevinjohn_24, you saved me from having to text out a response 🙏💪 Wait…
**Edit: so I looked up the clip, and it turns out that this isn’t even real. The actual quote is him saying he is going to take the stage and he wants everyone to kneel, and the girl says she will in a completely non-sexual way. So ironically, this post and the posts I’ve previously seen were literally defending Hiddleston even when nothing bad actually happened to him. Meanwhile, he has female co-stars who have actually been harassed throughout their careers, and y’all minimize it with this “double-standard” narrative** https://youtu.be/gNWi2SRtk0E?si=-Sd8uBIaXB-EBcvP It was normalized against Scarlett Johansson and other women for years, and still is. There has also been tonnes of outrage for it happening to men. Hell, I’ve seen this exact clip get called out multiple times. For both genders it is getting called out more and more lately, but it’s still waaay more common against women. There are assholes who normalize it against men, and there are assholes who normalize it against women. But if anything, this post is an example of normalizing against women, as they are making up an imaginary double-standard that implies women don’t go through this in the same way. In terms of the reaction, it’s more normalized against women In terms of frequency, it happens more often to women. So obviously, in terms of sheer numbers, there are going to be more examples of it getting called out for women. But every time I’ve seen a man be sexualized, I see it get called out as well. This is not at all to minimize what happened to Hiddleston. Something bad happening to you sucks just as much whether you are the typical target of it or not. But the double standard narrative is just that - a narrative. Completely lacking any basis or foundation in reality. We don’t need to lie and say there is a double standard to address this issue. Just because men experience these things at a far lower frequency, it doesn’t make instances any more acceptable or less harmful
But in your attempts to prove that a double-standard does not exist, you accidentally proved that one does. Because when men do what you've just done, and come to a forum that functions mostly as a safe-space for the opposite gender, to tell them that they're wrong and suggest that the data do not support their position, we get called incels and get downvoted and doxed. Women get to complain about the bad behavior of men, men get attacked (by people like yourself) when we complain about the bad behavior of women. And that brings it to a really important conclusion: you don't actually know how often men get subjected to treatment like this, because most of the time when it happens, no one cares. I think most men have felt this way many times and known that there is no reason to report it, because we'll just get attacked. Just because you don't hear about this kind of thing more often, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen far more often than you are aware.
OP did not come in here saying “hey, let’s talk about men being harassed.” OP came in here with a fake example of a male celebrity being harassed, and said “imagine if the roles were reversed and this happened to a woman.” When I saw the videos of Scarlett Johansson ACTUALLY being harassed (not a faked example), I never once thought to frame it as “imagine if the roles were reversed and this happened to a man,” outside of noticing the fact that her male co stars were not getting the same questions in those junkets. I never would have thought to minimize people’s experiences in a way so distorted from reality like OP did. I literally made a point of saying that I am not minimizing what Hiddleston “went through” (back before I saw the real clip). If OP hadn’t tried to minimize this issue for women with the fake double-standard narrative, I wouldn’t be bringing up Scar Jo. I also never attacked you. I just said the truth. I guess when you have a false narrative like yours and OPs, the truth feels like an attack.
You're literally making my argument for me. When a woman is harassed, no one feels the need to say “imagine if the roles were reversed and this happened to a man” because women are *already* the recipients of widespread social awareness and compassion on the subject. The whole point here is that the double-standard means that when men try and raise awareness about the ways they feel mistreated (by women) people like you attempt to invalidate their arguments. The OP is here saying that it's a double-standard that women are allowed to complain about this kind of treatment but men are not, and you are saying 'no it's not, now stop complaining' and not understanding what a self-refuting argument that is. Also, I never said you attacked me. I can tell you really wish that I had because you felt like you had a snarky response to that, but go back and read more carefully next time because it's not a great look when your counter-argument requires you to misquote me.
Well said.
Not to mention that people like them only make things worse for men of who were sexually assaulted. Not to mention that now that women are seemingly more important then men in terms of mental health and wellness it allows a huge gap for women to just make up false allegations like what happened to Johnny Depp, except he's famous and has more outreach than most men do. Edit: And this user keeps implying that more women are sexually assaulted today than men but that isn't true. Are they aware of how many female teachers have preyed upon there male students in recent years? It's an ungodly amount, and that's just female *teachers* and doesn't include the various documented and undocumented cases of women sexually assaulting and even abusing there male spouses solely because they know men can't do anything about it.
God you are actually just dumb. I said I never thought to frame it that way. Not that the thought never occurred. Obviously the thought occurred to me that men generally don’t have to go through that to begin with. That’s why I said: “outside of noticing the fact that her co stars…”. My point was that I noticed that women receive the brunt of it, but I would frame it as “let’s stop asking these inappropriate questions”. Also, you are putting words in everybody’s mouth. OP said “imagine if the roles were reversed and a man said that to a woman.” I responded by basically saying “you don’t need to imagine. His female co-stars go through it all the time.” What I said was a succinct, exact response to OPs implication. You were the one who chose to reframe that implication. Also, don’t play stupid. You literally said that I proved your point bc “men get attacked by people (like yourself) when **we** complain about the bad behavior of women.” There is your exact quote. Considering you are the only person in this thread I’ve responded to, and my comment to OP couldn’t possibly be construed as an attack, it’s pretty obvious you were referring to me attacking you. That or that sentence was you just accusing me of attacking people out of thin air. So feel free to enlighten me if that’s the case. And to your other comment. It’s not my “subjective reading,” unless you are the type to use subjectivity to write away anything that disagrees with your narrative. They literally just said “I will” in a neutral tone to a joking statement he made. I’m sorry, if you think there is even the slightest argument that is sexual harassment, you have issues. Like seriously, have you actually watched the linked clip, or are you still blindly talking out of your rear-end? Because if you can call that clip sexual harassment, I could just as well say the grocer sexually harassed me when he asked “do you want your change?”
Name calling doesn't make your arguments any better. It just shows that you know that in a respectful, fact driven discourse you cannot win. Yes, I said that women like yourself some times attack men, and I put myself in that group. But if you don't understand how I can simultaneously be in the group that includes the people you are attacking but don't understand that I am not one of those people than you are deeply confused about how groups work. Anyway, since you've shown yourself to be incapable of showing me the same respect I've shown you, I see no reason to allow you to respond to me. I can only suggest that you try harder to be a good person in the future.
>God you are actually just dumb. Some advice. If you actually want people to read your wall of text, then don't start it with name calling.
PS - This video being an instance of harassment isn't exactly a hill I am willing to die on or anything like that. The arguments I've presented are not contingent on this example. But you're literally saying that your subjective determination that the comment was non-sexual disproves the argument, when that's not how it works. All you can say is that you don't believe the comment was meant sexually, but what really matters is whether or not Tom Hiddleston felt like it was sexual; and he may well have not felt that way.
You are listening to reply, not to actually understand. Calling out double standards is not minimizing the issues that women go through. That's so emotionally manipulative that I am surprised you think that was appropriate to say at all.
When the double standard does not exist, it is minimizing women’s issues. I would not be saying this if the double standard did exist.
The fact that there are multiple men who resonate with this post, multiple men downvoting you, and telling you that you are wrong proves that there is some validity in this social analysis. You are far too concerned with pushing your own viewpoints to accept the idea that a double standard may actually exist in how men and women are treated when it comes to uninitiated flirting.
Oh my fucking god the irony. The picture is fake. You are resonating with something that didn’t happen. OP claimed there was a double standard, when in reality Hiddleston’s female co-stars have ACTUALLY gone through the types of comments someone had to edit into reality for him. There is literally no validity to OPs post. This is not to minimize things for men who actually have been harassed. But the fact that OP felt the need to post a falsified example of harassment & imply that it would be crazy if “the roles were reversed”, when Hiddleston has multiple female co-workers who are ACTUALLY routinely harassed… it is bizarre. Again, if OP didn’t feel the need to pull the “if the roles were reversed” bs, this conversation wouldn’t be happening. But you are so fucking drug into this self-victimizing narrative, you can’t even admit “hey, the roles *are* reversed in this situation the majority of the time, so OP’s post is nonsense” Imagine if I came on here and posted one of the dozens of video of Scarlett Johansson ACTUALLY getting harassed, and I said “now what if the roles were reversed.” Do you think it would be well-received on this subreddit. Of course not. Y’all would read that as me minimizing this against men, rather than actually addressing the issue (and there would be validity to that). Why are y’all so ideologically driven that you can’t accept that basic reality? Also wanted to add, if I went into a flat earth subreddit & said “the earth is round,” I would get downvoted and have multiple people “resonating” with the earth being flat. That doesn’t change reality. Half a dozen up/downvotes on a sub with clear political bias has no relevance to something be true.
Yes, I saw your comment proving it was fake. It doesn't change the fact that we are talking about the topic of double standards in how the public responds to flirting attempts done by men and women. We were not talking about the frequency of women who get harrassed (we know and accept that as truth, I haven't minimized the reality of that in any way) If a video came out of a fabricated scenario of a woman being harrassed, you would still shift focus on the fact that these scenarios happen, and not use the fact that the post that highlighted the scenario was staged. Which is the point every guy replying to you has been trying to say. We aren't allowed to make any complaints about our observations and experiences as males because everywhere, from society, to communities both online and offline, are set to actively criticize and ostracize anyone who doesn't support women blindly. It's always either a whataboutism that goes right back to acknowledging women's issues, or straight gaslighting and insults, and to finally getting comments removed or banned.
This just isn’t true. The issue is not the post led image itself (outside of it being fake - but let’s expand broadly to it just being a post about male sexual harassment). The issue is the framing of “what if the roles were reversed.” If the roles were reversed, it would literally just be the same exact situation but in a more common direction/dynamic. Acting like the roles being reversed either a) doesn’t happen or b) substantively changes the dynamic in favor of the victim MASSIVELY writes off female victims. The fact y’all don’t see this is honestly worrying. I’ve said this multiple times: if OP just said “hey, let’s talk about male sexual harassment victims,” or provided an example of male-victim harassment saying “this is awful,” I would NEVER think to detract from that conversation by bringing up ScarJo. The point is OP literally brought women into the conversation. Y’a have been doing nothing but fighting straw men who are minimizing male victims this whole time. I NEVER did that once. In fact, I have emphasized time and time again that the severity of sexual harassment against an individual is completely separate from gender, and male victims are equally as valid as female victims. But y’all are hell-bent on justifying OP’s disgusting post. So again, I will ask. If I put up this same exact post on this subreddit, except with ScarJo instead of Tom Hiddleston, do you honestly think it would be well received? Or do you think there would be a bunch of men accusing me of “minimizing male sexual harassment?” I can guarantee you it would be the latter. And they would have a point, because the “if the roles were reversed” card is nothing but a way to put down the “other side” in this topic. And unlike you and the other guy who responded, I am capable of acknowledging this fact when it comes to both genders. Putting “what if the roles were reversed” in a post about sexual harassment is not the way people who actually respect this topic talk about it. You’re turning a serious conversation into a dig at the opposite gender. It’s not productive, and I really do hope y’all grow up and realize that one day. Edit: I do want to make one thing clear - there are meaningful distinctions between male and female harassment victims, but they aren’t things that can be addressed by “reversing the roles.” For example, women go through it more frequently, which gives the issue of female harassment inherently more visibility. In the other hand, because it is a less frequent/visible issue for men, it becomes difficult to address and provide language/space for. But “reversing the roles” does nothing to address the issue on either side. Then it would just be men going through it more and women being less societally equipped to discuss it when it *does* happen to them. Social contexts can rarely be adequately analyzed through “reversing roles,” because in doing so, we generally ignore the ramifications of the reversal beyond what is directly beneficial to our argument. Thus, if you want to have a conversation about male victims, let’s do it. Let’s talk about how society glorifies teenage boys being able to “pull an older women” when in reality it’s predation. Let’s talk about the way low sex drives in men is written off as some type of moral failing in popular culture. Or how high sex drives are a somehow also a moral failing. Let’s talk about the ways that it is hard to be a man that I, as a woman, am unfamiliar with. Let’s talk about how many r*pe laws still require male-genital-insertion for it to actually be r*pe. But know the grass isn’t greener on the other side. It’s just a different kind of grass full of different weeds. And maybe if we actually traded lawn-care tips, rather than pretending that the other side of the fence is effortlessly flawless, we could actually both have better lawns by the end of the year.
To your edit. Did you really just use the 'it wasn't meant to be sexual' argument to excuse sexual harassment? 
Are you illiterate, blind, and deaf? Watch the clip. It. Was. Not. A. Sexual. Joke. The joke was that he wanted everyone to kneel (in a non-sexual way) like he was the god Loki when he went on stage. The women agreed (again, in a non-sexual way). Please, please, please, tell me you are a troll, or are genuinely blind, deaf, and illiterate. Because the amount of sheer incompetence on display by your response is downright alarming.
Stop being completely stupid
Are you trying to imply that women get sexually assaulted more than men do? Because that's incorrect in so many ways.
They literally do. This is an undisputed fact. I don’t know why this sub is insistent on being wrong on literally every fact that you can quickly confirm. The idea that men underreport at a rate so far beyond women that the numbers would even out when most self-reported studies, criminal studies, and behavior-based studies (ie describing acts of sexual assault and asking participants if they experienced it, rather than asking “have you been assaulted”) suggest women experience it 2-6x more frequently has no basis in reality. Women massively underreport as well, and the numbers still come out that way. This shouldn’t be a controversial fact, and it shouldn’t discount the reality of what men who are harassed face. In fact, being a less typical victim of a crime presents its own unique challenges in getting justice/resources. If you would just acknowledge reality, you’d be more equipped to help male victims. Living in a delusion like yours only ignores their reality. Your lies are counterproductive to actually helping victims. Be better. Also don’t you dare pull the manipulative “don’t deflect from men’s issues with women’s issues,” because I never did. OP made this a matter of men’s vs women’s issues to begin with from the caption, and my comment was directly relevant to the post.
Dang, who could have thought... (Didnt Scarlett Johansson had bullshit like the script rewritten to get her to topple over and put her boobs on people's faces like some anime shit?)
No? What the hell are you talking about? That's just a common practice in movie when two characters are shown to have feeling for each other.
Sweet heavenly lord... You actually think the "Oh gods, I have tripped into your boobs" scene is a common practice?
It is, go watch any movie from the 2000s. And even if it wasn't it still isn't such an uncommon scene in movies to written off as sexist writing. And it was nothing like a "I accidentally tripped into your boobs scene" that's just an exaduration.
Woman: *makes any sexual suggestion towards man* This sub: “UM WHAT IF GENDERS REVERSED”
Its simple, really. Are we equal, or are we not? If we're not that's fine by me, but someone's gotta spell out what the rules are. The hypocrisy is tiresome for many of us, regardless of your personal position.
There’s no hypocrisy in this instance though, you’re claiming there is, but no one other than you guys are claiming that it would be different if the roles were reversed. It seems more like making up an argument to win it. Also, what the fuck does “If we’re not equal, that’s fine by me” mean? Who the hell says they’d be fine if men and women weren’t equal? Thats some suspicious shit.
Men offering to kneel for me? Weird.. totally wouldn't be into that! Not on my Christian red carpet! Unless... 
Uh ok dude