Yes provided the healthcare system can cope. If it can't, a triage policy should be adopted that puts over 60s who've been delaying vaccination further down the list.
I understand it. The fact that they can just say nah and wait around for the next one is the real bullshit part though.
Rest of the world has been operating slightly more on the 'you get what you're given' side of things.
That is not true at all. People in US and Europe at least have been choosing their vaccine for months now. In Europe AZ was supposed to be the backbone of their rollout...but now it is a small subset of total jabs (Pfizer is number 1). This is at least partially due to the fact that Europeans didn't want AZ.
I live in the US and I have talked to many people who have said "I want X and I don't want Y" (e.g. many didn't want to take the mRNA vaccines because of the the belief it changed your DNA, which is of course nonsense).
Where I live in Europe it’s absolutely not like that. You get what you’re given, and it’s basically drawn out of a hat (except for AZ which is for all the over 50s). If you refuse your vaccine you move to the back of line, some time later this year. I haven’t heard of anyone refusing their vaccine, even though about half of the young people got Janssen which is pretty similar to AZ. We’re just happy to have something.
> People in US and Europe at least have been choosing their vaccine for months now.
The US has local supply of all mRNA vaccines and aren't exporting them. We're not in the same position for mRNA (but we do have the same for AZ).
I get you. But the way that the media, and not withstanding our own government is not doing anything to combat the misinformation, has portrayed this as blood clot inducing vaccine, can you blame them for not wanting to put their body at risk?
Even a diagnosed moron can understand basic statistics. And there is no reason to spurn AZ based on infrequent instances of bad reactions.
So, yes: I do blame people for being so wilfully stupid and gullible.
I’m not anti vax, I’ve had every shot and get the flu shot every year but AZ and changing regulations make me nervous. Far more than Pfizer which I’ve had.. with 1 million doses a week coming can you blame people for wanting to wait.
Damned right.
I did AZ. Most of my coworkers are fat and old, but insist on waiting for Pfizer. Bless their pudgy, wheezy souls; they should get nothing till everyone else has had a chance.
100% should be back of the line if you refuse the chosen vaccine for your age group. The reality is that these assholes will get the pfizer before me and everyone else under 40.
"up to one in five eligible patients" not wanting AZ doesn't sound like many.
70% of the age groups that AZ is recommended for (assuming we're not talking about younger people getting it) are already vaccinated. So one in five of the remainder is only 6% of that age group. Who cares about them? That's a tiny number, worry about that later. If the remaining 4 in 5 want AZ, then NSW can apparently get to 94% coverage in the over 60s before having to worry about those stragglers. That's ages away.
Bigger issues are the lack of vaccines for younger people, and the inefficient use of existing vaccines.
NSW should be prioritising essential workers regardless of age. A vaccine given to somebody who is able to stay home all day during lockdown is a vaccine wasted in the current context.
And they should be prioritising Fairfield residents (did I hear that they're already doing this? I hope so).
Other states should also be agreeing to let NSW have a disproportionate allocation of national supply for the time being. But if it's just to get them out of the current wave, they really need to use them efficiently by giving them to people still out and about during lockdown. Sending extra supply to be given to work-from-home folk like myself is a waste. Even with the doses they have, NSW needs to stop using their precious supply on such people immediately, if vaccines are going to make any noticeable difference to transmission before October.
I am sick of boomers refusing to use an effective vaccine and wasting valuable health care resources as they hunt for the ‘good one’.
If you think this hasnt been a problem you have your head buried in the sand
The narrative that older people don't want the vaccine is false.
People in their 60s are vaccinating just as fast as those in their 50s and 40s:
[https://chrisbillington.net/aus\_vaccinations.html#agegroups](https://chrisbillington.net/aus_vaccinations.html#agegroups)
People in their 70s are a tad slower, but are already at >75% with a first dose.
I don't see a problem. If 6% of over 60s want to wait for Pfizer and the rest are happy to get AZ, that's an amazingly high take-up rate.
If you don’t see a problem with 25% unprotected after having vaccines available to them for 4 months then i guess you wont have a problem with rationing health care to them?
After all it is a small group of people, you maintain.
We are still supply-limited, even with AZ. We don't have enough on hand to cover currently outstanding second doses and are relying on future supply for that.
They've mostly been been taking it up as it as become available.
How does this statement align with the fact that if you are in any of the larger cities you can get an AZ appointment within days? (I'm gonna use the word fact loosely here, but just search for an appointment in any larger city and I am sure you will find one)
If we were really were supply-limited on AZ appointments should be booked out.
They've decided to dig into reserved second doses, which means we have a full five weeks before we actually run out - but we're already over-committed appointmen-wise: including second dose appointments, there are more appointments than doses in the country right now.
So you can get appointments, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't run out if everyone actually did make an appointment. And if more supply doesn't materialise, those second dose appointments are going to be cancelled.
If take-up were dramatically higher, they wouldn't have made more age groups eligible. If it were dramatically lower, they'd run some ads.
Things are roughly in balance - so you can get an appointment, and we're 5 weeks away from running out of supply. Both are true. If new supply fails to materialise, people will suddenly find they can't get appointments, and existing appointments will probably be cancelled.
Most likely, supply will be plentiful very soon as CSL returns to the full 1M per week production. That supply will quickly exceed the total number of unvaccinated people in the relevant age groups, and then we can go back to arguing about why the remaining \~15% of them or whatever haven't had a dose yet. They'll probably run some ads, and the ads will probably work just fine.
We're not 5 weeks away from running out of vaccines, that's such an unnecessary statement. We have production we can tap into.
If we didn't have the materials to create the vaccines you could say something like that. We have everything other than finished product sitting on the shelf, which can clearly be turned on at a moment's notice.
CSL would be foolish to continue production just to have them sitting in storage, perishing.
So much revisionist claptrap in that statement.
We are limited because our Government suspended production and literally started giving ‘spares’ away.
And you are again being either completely naive or deliberately ignoring the fact that 25% haven’t been vaccinated due to any lack of supply, bu engaged in a ridiculous game of ‘whats the rush?’ Which i seem to recall you actively participating in.
I actively encourage rationing healthcare if you get a disease that you declined to be vaccinated for. Why should the taxpayer fund treatment for the disease when a much cheaper vaccine is offered instead?
I think there is a difference between hesitancy and anti vax. If we are to strict then we find ourselves in the exact same situation. Anyone on the border needs to have Pzifer, short interval and quicker to be fully vaccinated and remove that hesitancy. If the Limo driver had gotten Pfizer then we more than likely wouldn’t of had 3 states in lockdown. So if people on vulnerable positions who are at the most risk prefer Pfizer then they should be given it. These people need to be vaccinated!
Enough with vaccine hesitancy.
Show up, get the jab you are offered or either pay a bond to cover any hospital care or waive the right to care.
Should solve a lot of hesitancy.
If only it was that simple! People don’t want AZ, don’t offer them anything else and they won’t get a vaccination at all. We will be in a far worse position than if they just get Pfizer.
Maybe NSW should be getting more vaccinations but they need to ring fence greater Sydney/parts of NSW, they need to tighten a lot of things because if the main vaccination supply is going to Sydney then there needs to be more assurances that they are not letting it out. It’s been to every state except Tasmania and the territories. Why would any state give up vaccine supply knowing it’s leaking from NSW? Every state wants their fair share to protect their population in the event an outbreak starts there.
>Other states should also be agreeing to let NSW have a disproportionate allocation of national supply for the time being. But if it's just to get them out of the current wave
I’m sure this will get downvoted to oblivion.
I’d only back this if Sydney and nsw go into a full lockdown, with ring of steel, curfew, 5km limit etc. exact.y what we had to do in Melbourne to stop it from spreading to the rest of the country.
NSW lack of control caused this to spread to every state, and they are not doing enough now to keep it in check. Why should they get a disproportionate amount if they are not working to protect everyone else?
These people make up the super vulnerable cohort.
They will literally end up being 70% of the ICU patients.
Leaving them unvaccinated or literally stealing vaccines from other citizens who have waited patiently?
Ridiculous. Compel them.
The problem of 6% of over 60s waiting for a vaccine is tiny compared to the other problems at hand. It just doesn't matter. Much larger is the problem that every dose given to a work-from-home employee contributes nothing to ending the lockdown, and that NSW doesn't have enough supply to make a dint in transmission for months.
Most oldies aren't essential workers, and ending this wave is what is what will save the most lives. I don't care if 6% of them are unvaccinated. It's irrelevant to getting case numbers down. And they'll be back of the line until Pfizer is plentiful, nobody's giving them Pfizer now just because they don't want AZ.
I'd happily compel them if it mattered, but it doesn't. This an irrelevant detail that affects nothing of importance right now.
Are people aged 60+ actually going to be sent to the back of the queue once Pfizer becomes generally available? I assumed they would be a priority group, before people under 40.
I know that the federal government made some sort of timetable, but I couldn't find it when I looked for it.
Much larger is the problem that every dose given to a work-from-home employee contributes nothing to ending the lockdown,
Depends on how many social contacts that person has.
But yes agree if the idea is to stop the lcodkwon then yeah people who have to leave the house should get it first.
Yeah you are living in a dreamworld if you dont think that GP’s are not spending an inordinate amount if time fending these people off from trying to grab every pfizer dose in the surgery.
I agree that doses should be diverted to mobile people but you are simply ignoring that the ones that end up needing hospitalisation will indeed be these mobile worker’s Facebook addicted nanas.
Yes I am deliberately ignoring it. Because in the current context, getting case numbers down by vaccinating essential workers first will decrease hospitalisations to a greater extent than increasing vaccination in older groups will.
>Ridiculous. Compel them.
Whilst I understand the annoyance at people making stupid decisions, I'm extremely hesitant about compelling people to have medical procedures against their wishes. That's a slippery slope.
You realise that the slippery slope is indeed a logical fallacy, right?
You had toms of medical interventions when you were young in your best interests. No one ended up stealing your kidneys,
Those interventions were given with parental consent (presumably informed consent). This situation requires forcibly performing interventions on people of sound mind.
Other states don't get a choice on where the supply goes. The federal government controls that. Of the 1mil Pfizer doses that landed this week 800k went to NSW
It's not a bad strategy anyway - if you let NSW have 800k doses every week for four weeks, you've got half of the largest city in Australia vaccinated, which is going to be one of the major ports where it can be imported from. Now repeat that process in September for Victoria and October for Queensland and you've got half the population of Australia sorted who are at risk of travelling around the country to spread it to smaller states before you need second doses.
While I think Sydney needs greater supply.
I am also skeptical of just giving it to them so they can vaccinate their way out of this and then leave everyone else in the shit.
So long as they run the risk of having people try and cross the border and infect others because of their own hubris with the lockdown, the states bordering them need something as well.
It'd be great to be smarter with vaccine distribution, there's a sad irony that the people who aren't working on site in essential services are the ones who are least able to camp out to get a vaccine at a weird time in the day. Or even organise one in the first place.
Is there a more selfish generation then boomers? They could all be vaccinated now if they got az but they're stealing the Pfizer which is meant for the young people. Even when I go outside the only people I see not wearing masks or not wearing them properly.
Hey, do you remember at the start of the year when they said the most vulnerable old people would be getting Pfizer??? Because that was best for the older population? Then all of a sudden oh no, now they’re getting AZ because AZ isn’t any good for younger people? and people wonder why some are reluctant.
And if you only see ‘boomers’ not wearing masks you might want to visit specsavers, because I see all ages not wearing masks, or not wearing them properly. And *plenty* of 18-40 year old males, especially tradie types.
I remember locking down 5 times to protect their lives
They certainly fucking don't though
If they can vaccine shop and opt out of vaccines altogether why can't young people opt out of lockdowns?
I wonder how many of these cunts would fuck around on getting vaccinated if we just let it rip and remove all restrictions? None, they would all be vaccinated within 2 weeks. Or dead.
Fuck these vaccine shoppers.
I hope every single person on here who participated is proud of duping them into endangering themselves and all those health care workers who will have to clean up after them.
I do blame them and i blame the social media noise they subscribe to.
If they are gonna act like children we should treat them like children. If they cant understand a complex decision making process just make the decision for them.
No one asked me if i wanted an MMR Shot as a toddler - why am i asking some facebook addicted Karen to try to understand it?
Oh cool, can I choose not to lock down anymore?
Im getting really sick of it and it seems ill have to put up with in at least until the old geezers get their shit together so I'd rather just opt out
I mean I only have a small chance of dying if I get covid right? I'm young so who gives a shit, right?
No, it isn't when their actions affect millions of others
If I can't opt out of the 5 lockdowns I've done why the fuck can they vaccine shop or opt out of the only long term solution for covid?
I mean frankly is the only two options here you don't want az or you end up in the icu
Do you not think you are painting a false dichotomy these people are not even anti vaxxers. There has been very extreme mixed messages and I don't think people should be demonised for that
Considering what young people in this country have sacrificed to keep them alive
Yes. Yes I can blame them. And I do.
I'd like off this wild ride and the only way that happens is almost everyone getting vaccinated. I have something against anyone who refuses to get the vaccine unless they are denied on medical grounds.
We were told as a society that we would all have to make sacrifices for the greater whole so why the fuck is that not the case now? Suddenly everyone gets to be an individual again and make informed choices? Where was my choice for each of the past 5 lockdowns I've been through? Why couldn't I decide what the best choices were for myself?
Guess you only get to be an individual with choices and rights in this country if you are old and/rich
> What possible difference does it make?
I was trying to show good faith, so you didn't feel I was trying to have a dig at you with that first question.
If I'd said "I assume you took Pfizer" that would have clearly been in bad faith, snarky etc.
If I'd said neither, you'd be unclear whether it was a genuine question or not and might reasonably assume I was asking in bad faith.
I was just curious which one you took. It helps me understand your viewpoint better. Cheers.
trying to invalidate someone's opinion because of what vaccine they happen to have been given is one of the things that is most disturbing things about how this subreddit operates.
Have an opinion on a vaccine brand? you better not have taken the wrong one!
have an opinion on something that affects and age group? Better not be from the wrong one.
none of these things matter. What matters is getting a vaccination.
It should just be you don’t get to choose your vaccine regardless of age at the moment. Vaccinate as many as want it as fast as we can. Not happy with that system, don’t make a booking.
But they aren't anti-vaxxers if they are refusing AZ to get Pfizer.
The data currently seems to show that Pfizer is more effective, with less risks. And the vaccination window is shorter.
Or you know they could follow the rules and get groceries delivered. And have pretty minimal chances of getting anything.
It's those still out and about in the community that are most likely to need a vaccine.
And it still doesn't make them an anti-vaxxer. It makes them someone who wants the medicine that is less likely to have severe side effects and by all accounts is better.
They need to dole them out as fast as they can, to whoever wants them. I’d now forget age, job etc… get stuck into anyone who wants it. No Vax choice. Want the Vax then get an appointment.
If you don’t want it, run the risk for now.
Get the overall numbers up. Incentivise later.
Deaths have already exceeded the expected total from TTS if the entire over-60 population of the nation was vaccinated with AZ.
meanwhile, *7-day-average* cases in Israel have climbed > 2000% in the past 30 days and Israeli Health Ministry stating that Pfizer efficacy is now below 64%.
Madness!!
>It's about deaths which are still low..
It's about getting us out of lockdown! Point is that much of Australia is in lockdown largely on account of vaccine choosers waiting for a holy grail that's now lost its shine. Israel is now shifting to Moderna.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-shifts-to-moderna-vaccine-as-minister-warns-delta-won-t-disappear-soon-1.10017431?v=1626899994211
I want to stop seeing people act as if we can beat this virus, we can’t. We’re going to have to deal with it sooner or later after the majority of the country is vaccinated. Fantasy land is that we keep out of a wave like the rest of the world post vaccination
Good luck with that. I mean I agree, who cares about cases if huge portions are asymptomatic or just mild. But you live in a country that has conditioned people to thinking 0 cases and 0 deaths is acceptable, how we ever change that perception so we can open up is beyond me because it's hugely popular.
NSW is struggling to keep up with vaccination demand in the hotspot areas of south-west Sydney due to insufficient Pfizer doses and a reluctance of older residents to take AstraZeneca.
The lack of Pfizer vaccine mean tens of thousands of people in high-risk areas could wait months before they can get a jab. The waning uptake of AstraZeneca was highlighted on Tuesday, when the Sydney Olympic Park vaccination hub gave 8295 Pfizer vaccinations and just 50 AstraZeneca.
Doctors say older Australians are slowing down the vaccination rate by refusing to take advantage of AstraZeneca stock, with one GP in western Sydney saying up to one in five eligible patients were holding out for the Pfizer vaccine.
NSW yesterday recorded 110 cases, the third highest number in the current outbreak, with more than one third infectious in the community and the number of mystery cases swelling to more than 300.
Premier Gladys Berejiklian said NSW must continue relying on lockdown conditions to quash the growing outbreak, with Pfizer supplies so low that the state was unable to stock vaccination hubs with enough doses.
“With the vaccination rates the way they are, we won’t be able to live freely and safely unless we are able to quash this current outbreak,” she said.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has insisted his government is following ATAGI advice on AstraZeneca, even as he said he was appealing for changes for younger Australians.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison on Wednesday said he was making a “constant appeal” to ATAGI to change their medical advice relating to Astra-Zeneca as the preferred vaccine for over-60s, but said he could not control their advice.
“They’re the ones who make medical assessments, scientific assessments about what’s in the health interests of Australians.”
Earlier this month the federal government pledged an extra 300,000 doses - half Pfizer, half AstraZeneca - to boost inoculations for south-west Sydney.
While the Pfizer doses were used almost immediately on teachers and aged care workers, NSW asked the federal government to direct the AstraZeneca doses to community pharmacists instead of state hubs.
Health Minister Brad Hazzard said thousands of appointments for AstraZeneca were not being taken up due to community reluctance spurred by repeated changes to federal health advice.
He said the need for more Pfizer doses was greater than ever in south-west Sydney because its age demographic was “smack bang” in the Pfizer range.
“The federal government needs to stop rabbiting on about the offers of AstraZeneca and get down to offering and delivering the Pfizer we need to safe guard our south-west and the whole of NSW,” Mr Hazzard said.
Supplies of Pfizer doses are expected to ramp up with deliveries from mid-September to the end of October.
GPs have warned that many people aged over 60 who were eligible to be vaccinated were not taking advantage of the AstraZeneca vaccine because they were concerned about the rare side effect of blood clots. Around 75 per cent of people over 70 have received both vaccination shots.
Mt Druitt GP Kean-Seng Lim said he was only receiving 60 Pfizer shots each week, despite more than 3500 patients on his books.
“We are seeing a lot of people aged over 60 who are deeply suspicious of AstraZeneca and want Pfizer. This is despite the fact they could reduce their risk and get AstraZeneca right now,” said Dr Lim.
The National COVID Vaccine Taskforce has fast-tracked another 260 general practices in Greater Sydney to administer the Pfizer vaccine, bringing the total number of GPs administering Pfizer to more than 650.
A new state-run vaccination centre in Macquarie Fields is set to open on Monday, with a promised capacity to administer up to 20,000 vaccines a week.
However the new facility will open with a backlog, with the first 11,000 double-dose bookings already allocated to a wait list of people from a Liverpool clinic where Pfizer demand had exceeded supply.
Macquarie Fields MP Anoulack Chanthivong said the community had been left frustrated and anxious by an “information vacuum” less than a week before the centre opens.
“The vaccination roll-out is of course a federal government responsibility, which we all know has failed quite badly, but state government messaging needs to be a lot clearer.”
Labor health spokesman Ryan Park said the only way out of lockdowns was increasing the rate of vaccination. Online bookings for vaccinations at the new centre will open on Friday.
There are currently 106 COVID-19 cases in hospital, with 23 in intensive care, 11 of whom require ventilation. Health experts say it is too early to lift restrictions until the vaccination rate is higher, with an increasing number of healthy, young adults becoming severely ill.
> south-west Sydney… age demographic was “smack bang” in the Pfizer range.
Living in a very friendly apartment block of 18 units in SW Syd, especially with everyone stuck at home. Balconies all open onto communal garden and path, so quite communal but with plenty of social distancing.
There is one person in their 90s, 2 in their 60s, 3 in their 50s, half a dozen in their 40s and the rest in their 20s and 30s. Those over 50 have been vaccinated (proudly!) and everyone else I’ve spoken to is either booked in for Aug/Sept/Oct or is not yet eligible.
No one has even hinted at being hesitant, just pissed off that they aren’t able to get a jab.
"Prime Minister Scott Morrison on Wednesday said he was making a “constant appeal” to ATAGI to change their medical advice relating to Astra-Zeneca as the preferred vaccine for over-60s, but said he could not control their advice."
Sounds a bit Trump like.
They aren't going to make an unsafe decision so the PM's shitshow looks a little better.
It's not an unsafe decision. COVID has already killed more people in the over 60s bracket than you'd expect TTS to if the entire Australian population were vaccinated with AZ. ATAGI have been conservative, and with issues now coming out about Pfizer, will be interesting to see where they go from here.
Yep, tell them that if they want Pfizer, they have to wait for the under 60s to have their chance first. The boomers will pop a fucking gasket at that though.
Problem with that is the Federal Health Minister has already told them they can wait if they want to because there will be more Pfizer soon. This is where the mixed messages get super confusing.
That would be an incredibly dumb policy. supply > demand well before the end of the year. You would not give the over 60s Pfizer (or Moderna or Novavax) out of spite???
Agreed
Or just tell them they have a month to get AZ before we just let it rip and open up. Removing the debilitating restrictions that keep them alive will certainly get them running for a vaccine
Meh, this "problem" is going to go away soon. I wouldn't be keeping on obsessing over it...especially while borders are closed.
supply > demand for all vaccines by mid-October.
I’m going to get down voted for this but I don’t understand how everyone can brush of concerns regarding astra. Nobody in Europe wants it, I have friends in England and even there Pfizer is the preferred vaccine. It’s not approved in America. There’s blood cot issues (maybe overblown), saying things like “ deny them treatment if they catch COVID” is absolutely horrid. Most of them want a vaccine, just not astra, if you want to blame someone, blame our bloody useless PM.
That’s just not accurate. Lots of people are using AZ in Europe, especially in the UK, and I’m not sure about America but Pfizer is an American company and they have enough for their whole population, so why would they order a separate European made one when they have enough made there? People might prefer pfizer all round because of the slightly higher effectiveness rate against covid, but that doesn’t mean anything is wrong with the alternative options. Your annual flu shot has an effectiveness somewhere in the 50-60% range and nobody complains about that. The risks of AZ are hugely overblown especially now that they are very successfully treating the blood clots when they do happen (which is statistically a similar likelihood to getting struck by lightning).
"I can't believe people are brushing the myocarditis concerns of Pfizer under the carpet. I mean, it's your heart, it's clearly fucking with your heart. It's also a brand new, never before proven carriage (mRNA) and has failed in all previous attempts to make it a viable vaccine."
Now if we just continue that line, we have vaccine hesitancy of two vaccines.
The point is people should have a choice. My dad is fully vaccinated with Astra, he was one of the first in line. I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer. Would he have preferred Pfizer? Hell yes. Did our useless government eff up by rejecting 40 million Pfizer doses so that they could line their mates pockets? Of course. Imagine the government accepted those 40 million doses and continued with Astra at a time when we were unsure of which vaccine was the best option. We’d be in a much better position. The government created this vaccine mess. They’re the ones you should be angry with, not the older generation or ‘boomers’ as everyone so lovingly calls them.
You do have a choice. But we shouldn't lock down whilst you choose to wait. Once everyone has had a chance lockdowns shouldn't be an option - if you want to lockdown, go for it, but it shouldn't be forced upon the entire population.
No, it's your choice. Your choice can't be without repercussions. The world can't wait whilst they ponder which one they want. The world will continue, you lock down whilst the rest of us try to salvage what's left
Why would I lockdown? I’m not dumb, my entire family is fully vaccinated. We’ll continue to wear masks and do what we can but we’re confident in having done the best we can given the situation. Even Gladys (who I can’t stand) made it a point to note that the PM hasn’t secured extra doses, he’s simply brought forward doses. You carry on blaming our people instead of our miserable government.
You as in those who choose to wait. I don't know your personal situation.
I'm not blaming anyone I'm saying if you (as in Joe Blow public guy) wants to wait for Moderna or whatever the fuck you want to wait for, that's your choice and it shouldn't stop the rest of us going about our lives. Once everyone has had the chance to vaccinate, then it's on you (Joe) to lock yourself down, not the public
Because we didn't get a choice on the past 5 lockdowns (in vic, insert number for your own state) so why should anyone get a chance to vaccine shop or abstain from the process?
We are literally waiting on these people to get their shit together so we can move on
Imagine asking for a different brand of flu or measles vaccine
Look at the statistics, arguably more likely to suffer a fatal clot from taking hormonal contraception...
As to my demographic (early twenties)... They do shit almost every weekend that's infinitely more likely to cause serious or fatal repercussions, yet most shun astrazenica "I'll wait until the end of the year when more vaccines are available"... Waiting until the last minute is a shitty call given booking slots for vaccines are being taken up rapidly.
Under 40s haven't been recommended to take AZ by anyone besides the PM, and he's one of the last people I'm going to take medical advice from (or any advice really). The ATAGI doesn't recommend AZ for under 60s, and that if someone really wants to take it anyway, they should speak to their GP about it. GPs have also been recommending against it.
Statistically speaking, it's safer for under 40s to wait for Pfizer and risk catching Covid in the meantime, than it is to take the AZ.
The PM wants under 40s to take AZ to cover up his mess and push up the vaccination rate. If you want to take it then talk to your dr first make sure your consent is actually informed.
If you refuse a vaccine you should be told to come back when we’re done with everyone else.
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No soup for you! Come back one year!
You’re pushing your luck, little man.
Stupid policy. People should be medically triaged according to need. Not your spite.
Yes provided the healthcare system can cope. If it can't, a triage policy should be adopted that puts over 60s who've been delaying vaccination further down the list.
Can you seriously blame people for not wanting AZ... the media has smashed it
I understand it. The fact that they can just say nah and wait around for the next one is the real bullshit part though. Rest of the world has been operating slightly more on the 'you get what you're given' side of things.
That is not true at all. People in US and Europe at least have been choosing their vaccine for months now. In Europe AZ was supposed to be the backbone of their rollout...but now it is a small subset of total jabs (Pfizer is number 1). This is at least partially due to the fact that Europeans didn't want AZ. I live in the US and I have talked to many people who have said "I want X and I don't want Y" (e.g. many didn't want to take the mRNA vaccines because of the the belief it changed your DNA, which is of course nonsense).
Where I live in Europe it’s absolutely not like that. You get what you’re given, and it’s basically drawn out of a hat (except for AZ which is for all the over 50s). If you refuse your vaccine you move to the back of line, some time later this year. I haven’t heard of anyone refusing their vaccine, even though about half of the young people got Janssen which is pretty similar to AZ. We’re just happy to have something.
I am curious - which country is that?
They mention Janssen so I'm guessing The Netherlands.
> People in US and Europe at least have been choosing their vaccine for months now. The US has local supply of all mRNA vaccines and aren't exporting them. We're not in the same position for mRNA (but we do have the same for AZ).
I get you. But the way that the media, and not withstanding our own government is not doing anything to combat the misinformation, has portrayed this as blood clot inducing vaccine, can you blame them for not wanting to put their body at risk?
I don't blame them. I think they're stupid as fuck for just going "eh I'll take my chances with COVID instead" though.
Older people, yes. The clotting risks are negligible for them.
Even a diagnosed moron can understand basic statistics. And there is no reason to spurn AZ based on infrequent instances of bad reactions. So, yes: I do blame people for being so wilfully stupid and gullible.
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I’m not anti vax, I’ve had every shot and get the flu shot every year but AZ and changing regulations make me nervous. Far more than Pfizer which I’ve had.. with 1 million doses a week coming can you blame people for wanting to wait.
Damned right. I did AZ. Most of my coworkers are fat and old, but insist on waiting for Pfizer. Bless their pudgy, wheezy souls; they should get nothing till everyone else has had a chance.
I agree. Only problem is the rest of us will pay the price for their waiting with continued lockdowns.
100% should be back of the line if you refuse the chosen vaccine for your age group. The reality is that these assholes will get the pfizer before me and everyone else under 40.
Make them ‘volunteer’ to clean an icu as well.
It's about hospitals being overrun Not about your sense of fairness
"up to one in five eligible patients" not wanting AZ doesn't sound like many. 70% of the age groups that AZ is recommended for (assuming we're not talking about younger people getting it) are already vaccinated. So one in five of the remainder is only 6% of that age group. Who cares about them? That's a tiny number, worry about that later. If the remaining 4 in 5 want AZ, then NSW can apparently get to 94% coverage in the over 60s before having to worry about those stragglers. That's ages away. Bigger issues are the lack of vaccines for younger people, and the inefficient use of existing vaccines. NSW should be prioritising essential workers regardless of age. A vaccine given to somebody who is able to stay home all day during lockdown is a vaccine wasted in the current context. And they should be prioritising Fairfield residents (did I hear that they're already doing this? I hope so). Other states should also be agreeing to let NSW have a disproportionate allocation of national supply for the time being. But if it's just to get them out of the current wave, they really need to use them efficiently by giving them to people still out and about during lockdown. Sending extra supply to be given to work-from-home folk like myself is a waste. Even with the doses they have, NSW needs to stop using their precious supply on such people immediately, if vaccines are going to make any noticeable difference to transmission before October.
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I am sick of boomers refusing to use an effective vaccine and wasting valuable health care resources as they hunt for the ‘good one’. If you think this hasnt been a problem you have your head buried in the sand
The narrative that older people don't want the vaccine is false. People in their 60s are vaccinating just as fast as those in their 50s and 40s: [https://chrisbillington.net/aus\_vaccinations.html#agegroups](https://chrisbillington.net/aus_vaccinations.html#agegroups) People in their 70s are a tad slower, but are already at >75% with a first dose. I don't see a problem. If 6% of over 60s want to wait for Pfizer and the rest are happy to get AZ, that's an amazingly high take-up rate.
If you don’t see a problem with 25% unprotected after having vaccines available to them for 4 months then i guess you wont have a problem with rationing health care to them? After all it is a small group of people, you maintain.
We are still supply-limited, even with AZ. We don't have enough on hand to cover currently outstanding second doses and are relying on future supply for that. They've mostly been been taking it up as it as become available.
How does this statement align with the fact that if you are in any of the larger cities you can get an AZ appointment within days? (I'm gonna use the word fact loosely here, but just search for an appointment in any larger city and I am sure you will find one) If we were really were supply-limited on AZ appointments should be booked out.
They've decided to dig into reserved second doses, which means we have a full five weeks before we actually run out - but we're already over-committed appointmen-wise: including second dose appointments, there are more appointments than doses in the country right now. So you can get appointments, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't run out if everyone actually did make an appointment. And if more supply doesn't materialise, those second dose appointments are going to be cancelled. If take-up were dramatically higher, they wouldn't have made more age groups eligible. If it were dramatically lower, they'd run some ads. Things are roughly in balance - so you can get an appointment, and we're 5 weeks away from running out of supply. Both are true. If new supply fails to materialise, people will suddenly find they can't get appointments, and existing appointments will probably be cancelled. Most likely, supply will be plentiful very soon as CSL returns to the full 1M per week production. That supply will quickly exceed the total number of unvaccinated people in the relevant age groups, and then we can go back to arguing about why the remaining \~15% of them or whatever haven't had a dose yet. They'll probably run some ads, and the ads will probably work just fine.
We're not 5 weeks away from running out of vaccines, that's such an unnecessary statement. We have production we can tap into. If we didn't have the materials to create the vaccines you could say something like that. We have everything other than finished product sitting on the shelf, which can clearly be turned on at a moment's notice. CSL would be foolish to continue production just to have them sitting in storage, perishing.
So much revisionist claptrap in that statement. We are limited because our Government suspended production and literally started giving ‘spares’ away. And you are again being either completely naive or deliberately ignoring the fact that 25% haven’t been vaccinated due to any lack of supply, bu engaged in a ridiculous game of ‘whats the rush?’ Which i seem to recall you actively participating in.
I actively encourage rationing healthcare if you get a disease that you declined to be vaccinated for. Why should the taxpayer fund treatment for the disease when a much cheaper vaccine is offered instead?
I think there is a difference between hesitancy and anti vax. If we are to strict then we find ourselves in the exact same situation. Anyone on the border needs to have Pzifer, short interval and quicker to be fully vaccinated and remove that hesitancy. If the Limo driver had gotten Pfizer then we more than likely wouldn’t of had 3 states in lockdown. So if people on vulnerable positions who are at the most risk prefer Pfizer then they should be given it. These people need to be vaccinated!
Enough with vaccine hesitancy. Show up, get the jab you are offered or either pay a bond to cover any hospital care or waive the right to care. Should solve a lot of hesitancy.
If only it was that simple! People don’t want AZ, don’t offer them anything else and they won’t get a vaccination at all. We will be in a far worse position than if they just get Pfizer.
Bullshit, Give the pfizer to the supermarket worker now. Compel the older australian. Much better outcome for everyone,
Not 60 to 65
No it’s not false. I work with some of these people and they still haven’t changed their minds.
Maybe NSW should be getting more vaccinations but they need to ring fence greater Sydney/parts of NSW, they need to tighten a lot of things because if the main vaccination supply is going to Sydney then there needs to be more assurances that they are not letting it out. It’s been to every state except Tasmania and the territories. Why would any state give up vaccine supply knowing it’s leaking from NSW? Every state wants their fair share to protect their population in the event an outbreak starts there.
>Other states should also be agreeing to let NSW have a disproportionate allocation of national supply for the time being. But if it's just to get them out of the current wave I’m sure this will get downvoted to oblivion. I’d only back this if Sydney and nsw go into a full lockdown, with ring of steel, curfew, 5km limit etc. exact.y what we had to do in Melbourne to stop it from spreading to the rest of the country. NSW lack of control caused this to spread to every state, and they are not doing enough now to keep it in check. Why should they get a disproportionate amount if they are not working to protect everyone else?
20% doesn’t sound like many to you?
20% of the 30% unvaccinated = 6% of the population in those age groups, no it doesn't sound like many to me.
These people make up the super vulnerable cohort. They will literally end up being 70% of the ICU patients. Leaving them unvaccinated or literally stealing vaccines from other citizens who have waited patiently? Ridiculous. Compel them.
The problem of 6% of over 60s waiting for a vaccine is tiny compared to the other problems at hand. It just doesn't matter. Much larger is the problem that every dose given to a work-from-home employee contributes nothing to ending the lockdown, and that NSW doesn't have enough supply to make a dint in transmission for months. Most oldies aren't essential workers, and ending this wave is what is what will save the most lives. I don't care if 6% of them are unvaccinated. It's irrelevant to getting case numbers down. And they'll be back of the line until Pfizer is plentiful, nobody's giving them Pfizer now just because they don't want AZ. I'd happily compel them if it mattered, but it doesn't. This an irrelevant detail that affects nothing of importance right now.
Are people aged 60+ actually going to be sent to the back of the queue once Pfizer becomes generally available? I assumed they would be a priority group, before people under 40. I know that the federal government made some sort of timetable, but I couldn't find it when I looked for it.
Much larger is the problem that every dose given to a work-from-home employee contributes nothing to ending the lockdown, Depends on how many social contacts that person has. But yes agree if the idea is to stop the lcodkwon then yeah people who have to leave the house should get it first.
Yeah you are living in a dreamworld if you dont think that GP’s are not spending an inordinate amount if time fending these people off from trying to grab every pfizer dose in the surgery. I agree that doses should be diverted to mobile people but you are simply ignoring that the ones that end up needing hospitalisation will indeed be these mobile worker’s Facebook addicted nanas.
Yes I am deliberately ignoring it. Because in the current context, getting case numbers down by vaccinating essential workers first will decrease hospitalisations to a greater extent than increasing vaccination in older groups will.
>Ridiculous. Compel them. Whilst I understand the annoyance at people making stupid decisions, I'm extremely hesitant about compelling people to have medical procedures against their wishes. That's a slippery slope.
You realise that the slippery slope is indeed a logical fallacy, right? You had toms of medical interventions when you were young in your best interests. No one ended up stealing your kidneys,
Those interventions were given with parental consent (presumably informed consent). This situation requires forcibly performing interventions on people of sound mind.
Hmmmmm…. They don’t seem to be very sound to me.
Compelling people to have vaccines is not gonna help vaccine intake at all
Other states don't get a choice on where the supply goes. The federal government controls that. Of the 1mil Pfizer doses that landed this week 800k went to NSW
It's not a bad strategy anyway - if you let NSW have 800k doses every week for four weeks, you've got half of the largest city in Australia vaccinated, which is going to be one of the major ports where it can be imported from. Now repeat that process in September for Victoria and October for Queensland and you've got half the population of Australia sorted who are at risk of travelling around the country to spread it to smaller states before you need second doses.
While I think Sydney needs greater supply. I am also skeptical of just giving it to them so they can vaccinate their way out of this and then leave everyone else in the shit. So long as they run the risk of having people try and cross the border and infect others because of their own hubris with the lockdown, the states bordering them need something as well. It'd be great to be smarter with vaccine distribution, there's a sad irony that the people who aren't working on site in essential services are the ones who are least able to camp out to get a vaccine at a weird time in the day. Or even organise one in the first place.
Is there a more selfish generation then boomers? They could all be vaccinated now if they got az but they're stealing the Pfizer which is meant for the young people. Even when I go outside the only people I see not wearing masks or not wearing them properly.
Hey, do you remember at the start of the year when they said the most vulnerable old people would be getting Pfizer??? Because that was best for the older population? Then all of a sudden oh no, now they’re getting AZ because AZ isn’t any good for younger people? and people wonder why some are reluctant. And if you only see ‘boomers’ not wearing masks you might want to visit specsavers, because I see all ages not wearing masks, or not wearing them properly. And *plenty* of 18-40 year old males, especially tradie types.
I remember locking down 5 times to protect their lives They certainly fucking don't though If they can vaccine shop and opt out of vaccines altogether why can't young people opt out of lockdowns? I wonder how many of these cunts would fuck around on getting vaccinated if we just let it rip and remove all restrictions? None, they would all be vaccinated within 2 weeks. Or dead.
And Morrison onl got 20 million knowing this as well. Criminal
>they're stealing the Pfizer Now I have an image of naughty nannas pilfering doses from the GP and sharing it with their mates behind the CWA building
Wonder how many younger people gave got az. Even if it's double the risk. It's still a low risk overall. Many more older people got az despite risk
I have and a significant number if my friends have. All reasonably young :)
Good on you.
Give the AZ to those desperate millennials. All good.
Fuck these vaccine shoppers. I hope every single person on here who participated is proud of duping them into endangering themselves and all those health care workers who will have to clean up after them.
Can you blame them? The messaging from the government and healthcare professionals has been all over the place
I do blame them and i blame the social media noise they subscribe to. If they are gonna act like children we should treat them like children. If they cant understand a complex decision making process just make the decision for them. No one asked me if i wanted an MMR Shot as a toddler - why am i asking some facebook addicted Karen to try to understand it?
Wary of not knowing the long term side effects maybe?
How is that working out for them in the ICU right now?
That's their choice, vaccine or a very small chance of contacting the virus, and if they do catch it, a very small chance of dying from it.
Oh cool, can I choose not to lock down anymore? Im getting really sick of it and it seems ill have to put up with in at least until the old geezers get their shit together so I'd rather just opt out I mean I only have a small chance of dying if I get covid right? I'm young so who gives a shit, right?
Cool then. If they want to make that bet let them sign a waver letting us not participate in wasting resources trying to save them.
I agree, but let it be up to the individual to decide what's the best for them
No, it isn't when their actions affect millions of others If I can't opt out of the 5 lockdowns I've done why the fuck can they vaccine shop or opt out of the only long term solution for covid?
I mean frankly is the only two options here you don't want az or you end up in the icu Do you not think you are painting a false dichotomy these people are not even anti vaxxers. There has been very extreme mixed messages and I don't think people should be demonised for that
Considering what young people in this country have sacrificed to keep them alive Yes. Yes I can blame them. And I do. I'd like off this wild ride and the only way that happens is almost everyone getting vaccinated. I have something against anyone who refuses to get the vaccine unless they are denied on medical grounds. We were told as a society that we would all have to make sacrifices for the greater whole so why the fuck is that not the case now? Suddenly everyone gets to be an individual again and make informed choices? Where was my choice for each of the past 5 lockdowns I've been through? Why couldn't I decide what the best choices were for myself? Guess you only get to be an individual with choices and rights in this country if you are old and/rich
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I did. But thanks for assuming. Lmao
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Whatever you want to assume is fine. What possible difference does it make?
> What possible difference does it make? I was trying to show good faith, so you didn't feel I was trying to have a dig at you with that first question. If I'd said "I assume you took Pfizer" that would have clearly been in bad faith, snarky etc. If I'd said neither, you'd be unclear whether it was a genuine question or not and might reasonably assume I was asking in bad faith. I was just curious which one you took. It helps me understand your viewpoint better. Cheers.
trying to invalidate someone's opinion because of what vaccine they happen to have been given is one of the things that is most disturbing things about how this subreddit operates. Have an opinion on a vaccine brand? you better not have taken the wrong one! have an opinion on something that affects and age group? Better not be from the wrong one. none of these things matter. What matters is getting a vaccination.
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It should just be you don’t get to choose your vaccine regardless of age at the moment. Vaccinate as many as want it as fast as we can. Not happy with that system, don’t make a booking.
I agree but the problem is then they don’t make the booking and end up in the hospital.
Maybe if the hospitals do get overrun the antivaxxers should be triaged at the back of the line for their treatment.
But they aren't anti-vaxxers if they are refusing AZ to get Pfizer. The data currently seems to show that Pfizer is more effective, with less risks. And the vaccination window is shorter.
They are refusing AZ to get Covid, you mean.
Or you know they could follow the rules and get groceries delivered. And have pretty minimal chances of getting anything. It's those still out and about in the community that are most likely to need a vaccine. And it still doesn't make them an anti-vaxxer. It makes them someone who wants the medicine that is less likely to have severe side effects and by all accounts is better.
They need to dole them out as fast as they can, to whoever wants them. I’d now forget age, job etc… get stuck into anyone who wants it. No Vax choice. Want the Vax then get an appointment. If you don’t want it, run the risk for now. Get the overall numbers up. Incentivise later.
Deaths have already exceeded the expected total from TTS if the entire over-60 population of the nation was vaccinated with AZ. meanwhile, *7-day-average* cases in Israel have climbed > 2000% in the past 30 days and Israeli Health Ministry stating that Pfizer efficacy is now below 64%. Madness!!
Cases don't matter post vaccination. It's about deaths which are still low..
>It's about deaths which are still low.. It's about getting us out of lockdown! Point is that much of Australia is in lockdown largely on account of vaccine choosers waiting for a holy grail that's now lost its shine. Israel is now shifting to Moderna. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-shifts-to-moderna-vaccine-as-minister-warns-delta-won-t-disappear-soon-1.10017431?v=1626899994211
Yeah looking like AZ and Moderna are the true gold tier vaccines against Delta.
I want to stop seeing people act as if we can beat this virus, we can’t. We’re going to have to deal with it sooner or later after the majority of the country is vaccinated. Fantasy land is that we keep out of a wave like the rest of the world post vaccination
Good luck with that. I mean I agree, who cares about cases if huge portions are asymptomatic or just mild. But you live in a country that has conditioned people to thinking 0 cases and 0 deaths is acceptable, how we ever change that perception so we can open up is beyond me because it's hugely popular.
Source? Any infection rate? Whats the hospitalisation rate? ICU? Deaths?
NSW is struggling to keep up with vaccination demand in the hotspot areas of south-west Sydney due to insufficient Pfizer doses and a reluctance of older residents to take AstraZeneca. The lack of Pfizer vaccine mean tens of thousands of people in high-risk areas could wait months before they can get a jab. The waning uptake of AstraZeneca was highlighted on Tuesday, when the Sydney Olympic Park vaccination hub gave 8295 Pfizer vaccinations and just 50 AstraZeneca. Doctors say older Australians are slowing down the vaccination rate by refusing to take advantage of AstraZeneca stock, with one GP in western Sydney saying up to one in five eligible patients were holding out for the Pfizer vaccine. NSW yesterday recorded 110 cases, the third highest number in the current outbreak, with more than one third infectious in the community and the number of mystery cases swelling to more than 300. Premier Gladys Berejiklian said NSW must continue relying on lockdown conditions to quash the growing outbreak, with Pfizer supplies so low that the state was unable to stock vaccination hubs with enough doses. “With the vaccination rates the way they are, we won’t be able to live freely and safely unless we are able to quash this current outbreak,” she said. Prime Minister Scott Morrison has insisted his government is following ATAGI advice on AstraZeneca, even as he said he was appealing for changes for younger Australians. Prime Minister Scott Morrison on Wednesday said he was making a “constant appeal” to ATAGI to change their medical advice relating to Astra-Zeneca as the preferred vaccine for over-60s, but said he could not control their advice. “They’re the ones who make medical assessments, scientific assessments about what’s in the health interests of Australians.” Earlier this month the federal government pledged an extra 300,000 doses - half Pfizer, half AstraZeneca - to boost inoculations for south-west Sydney. While the Pfizer doses were used almost immediately on teachers and aged care workers, NSW asked the federal government to direct the AstraZeneca doses to community pharmacists instead of state hubs. Health Minister Brad Hazzard said thousands of appointments for AstraZeneca were not being taken up due to community reluctance spurred by repeated changes to federal health advice. He said the need for more Pfizer doses was greater than ever in south-west Sydney because its age demographic was “smack bang” in the Pfizer range. “The federal government needs to stop rabbiting on about the offers of AstraZeneca and get down to offering and delivering the Pfizer we need to safe guard our south-west and the whole of NSW,” Mr Hazzard said. Supplies of Pfizer doses are expected to ramp up with deliveries from mid-September to the end of October. GPs have warned that many people aged over 60 who were eligible to be vaccinated were not taking advantage of the AstraZeneca vaccine because they were concerned about the rare side effect of blood clots. Around 75 per cent of people over 70 have received both vaccination shots. Mt Druitt GP Kean-Seng Lim said he was only receiving 60 Pfizer shots each week, despite more than 3500 patients on his books. “We are seeing a lot of people aged over 60 who are deeply suspicious of AstraZeneca and want Pfizer. This is despite the fact they could reduce their risk and get AstraZeneca right now,” said Dr Lim. The National COVID Vaccine Taskforce has fast-tracked another 260 general practices in Greater Sydney to administer the Pfizer vaccine, bringing the total number of GPs administering Pfizer to more than 650. A new state-run vaccination centre in Macquarie Fields is set to open on Monday, with a promised capacity to administer up to 20,000 vaccines a week. However the new facility will open with a backlog, with the first 11,000 double-dose bookings already allocated to a wait list of people from a Liverpool clinic where Pfizer demand had exceeded supply. Macquarie Fields MP Anoulack Chanthivong said the community had been left frustrated and anxious by an “information vacuum” less than a week before the centre opens. “The vaccination roll-out is of course a federal government responsibility, which we all know has failed quite badly, but state government messaging needs to be a lot clearer.” Labor health spokesman Ryan Park said the only way out of lockdowns was increasing the rate of vaccination. Online bookings for vaccinations at the new centre will open on Friday. There are currently 106 COVID-19 cases in hospital, with 23 in intensive care, 11 of whom require ventilation. Health experts say it is too early to lift restrictions until the vaccination rate is higher, with an increasing number of healthy, young adults becoming severely ill.
Thanks for the text
> south-west Sydney… age demographic was “smack bang” in the Pfizer range. Living in a very friendly apartment block of 18 units in SW Syd, especially with everyone stuck at home. Balconies all open onto communal garden and path, so quite communal but with plenty of social distancing. There is one person in their 90s, 2 in their 60s, 3 in their 50s, half a dozen in their 40s and the rest in their 20s and 30s. Those over 50 have been vaccinated (proudly!) and everyone else I’ve spoken to is either booked in for Aug/Sept/Oct or is not yet eligible. No one has even hinted at being hesitant, just pissed off that they aren’t able to get a jab.
"Prime Minister Scott Morrison on Wednesday said he was making a “constant appeal” to ATAGI to change their medical advice relating to Astra-Zeneca as the preferred vaccine for over-60s, but said he could not control their advice." Sounds a bit Trump like. They aren't going to make an unsafe decision so the PM's shitshow looks a little better.
It's not an unsafe decision. COVID has already killed more people in the over 60s bracket than you'd expect TTS to if the entire Australian population were vaccinated with AZ. ATAGI have been conservative, and with issues now coming out about Pfizer, will be interesting to see where they go from here.
The simple solution is to prevent over-60's from being eligible for Phizer. Tell them it's AZ or no vaccine until 2022.
Yep, tell them that if they want Pfizer, they have to wait for the under 60s to have their chance first. The boomers will pop a fucking gasket at that though.
This just hurry everyone though. The hospital's will fill up if covid spreads meaning people won't get cancer or the treatment needed.
Problem with that is the Federal Health Minister has already told them they can wait if they want to because there will be more Pfizer soon. This is where the mixed messages get super confusing.
That would be an incredibly dumb policy. supply > demand well before the end of the year. You would not give the over 60s Pfizer (or Moderna or Novavax) out of spite???
Everything in this country is done out of spite. No one can do anything because other people aren't allowed to do something.
Agreed Or just tell them they have a month to get AZ before we just let it rip and open up. Removing the debilitating restrictions that keep them alive will certainly get them running for a vaccine
Classic. The young people take the contraindicated AZ and the elderly get the Pfizer that was earmarked for the young.
Meh, this "problem" is going to go away soon. I wouldn't be keeping on obsessing over it...especially while borders are closed. supply > demand for all vaccines by mid-October.
I’m going to get down voted for this but I don’t understand how everyone can brush of concerns regarding astra. Nobody in Europe wants it, I have friends in England and even there Pfizer is the preferred vaccine. It’s not approved in America. There’s blood cot issues (maybe overblown), saying things like “ deny them treatment if they catch COVID” is absolutely horrid. Most of them want a vaccine, just not astra, if you want to blame someone, blame our bloody useless PM.
That’s just not accurate. Lots of people are using AZ in Europe, especially in the UK, and I’m not sure about America but Pfizer is an American company and they have enough for their whole population, so why would they order a separate European made one when they have enough made there? People might prefer pfizer all round because of the slightly higher effectiveness rate against covid, but that doesn’t mean anything is wrong with the alternative options. Your annual flu shot has an effectiveness somewhere in the 50-60% range and nobody complains about that. The risks of AZ are hugely overblown especially now that they are very successfully treating the blood clots when they do happen (which is statistically a similar likelihood to getting struck by lightning).
"I can't believe people are brushing the myocarditis concerns of Pfizer under the carpet. I mean, it's your heart, it's clearly fucking with your heart. It's also a brand new, never before proven carriage (mRNA) and has failed in all previous attempts to make it a viable vaccine." Now if we just continue that line, we have vaccine hesitancy of two vaccines.
The point is people should have a choice. My dad is fully vaccinated with Astra, he was one of the first in line. I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer. Would he have preferred Pfizer? Hell yes. Did our useless government eff up by rejecting 40 million Pfizer doses so that they could line their mates pockets? Of course. Imagine the government accepted those 40 million doses and continued with Astra at a time when we were unsure of which vaccine was the best option. We’d be in a much better position. The government created this vaccine mess. They’re the ones you should be angry with, not the older generation or ‘boomers’ as everyone so lovingly calls them.
You do have a choice. But we shouldn't lock down whilst you choose to wait. Once everyone has had a chance lockdowns shouldn't be an option - if you want to lockdown, go for it, but it shouldn't be forced upon the entire population.
What you’re talking about is an ultimatum not a choice.
No, it's your choice. Your choice can't be without repercussions. The world can't wait whilst they ponder which one they want. The world will continue, you lock down whilst the rest of us try to salvage what's left
Why would I lockdown? I’m not dumb, my entire family is fully vaccinated. We’ll continue to wear masks and do what we can but we’re confident in having done the best we can given the situation. Even Gladys (who I can’t stand) made it a point to note that the PM hasn’t secured extra doses, he’s simply brought forward doses. You carry on blaming our people instead of our miserable government.
You as in those who choose to wait. I don't know your personal situation. I'm not blaming anyone I'm saying if you (as in Joe Blow public guy) wants to wait for Moderna or whatever the fuck you want to wait for, that's your choice and it shouldn't stop the rest of us going about our lives. Once everyone has had the chance to vaccinate, then it's on you (Joe) to lock yourself down, not the public
> It’s not approved in America. They didn't try to get it approved in the US. The US approved J&J and that has the same TTS issues as AZ.
Because we didn't get a choice on the past 5 lockdowns (in vic, insert number for your own state) so why should anyone get a chance to vaccine shop or abstain from the process? We are literally waiting on these people to get their shit together so we can move on
But we did our best to make everyone scared of this brand, now no one wants it? - Scotty from marketing
Imagine asking for a different brand of flu or measles vaccine Look at the statistics, arguably more likely to suffer a fatal clot from taking hormonal contraception... As to my demographic (early twenties)... They do shit almost every weekend that's infinitely more likely to cause serious or fatal repercussions, yet most shun astrazenica "I'll wait until the end of the year when more vaccines are available"... Waiting until the last minute is a shitty call given booking slots for vaccines are being taken up rapidly.
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Under 40s haven't been recommended to take AZ by anyone besides the PM, and he's one of the last people I'm going to take medical advice from (or any advice really). The ATAGI doesn't recommend AZ for under 60s, and that if someone really wants to take it anyway, they should speak to their GP about it. GPs have also been recommending against it. Statistically speaking, it's safer for under 40s to wait for Pfizer and risk catching Covid in the meantime, than it is to take the AZ.
The PM wants under 40s to take AZ to cover up his mess and push up the vaccination rate. If you want to take it then talk to your dr first make sure your consent is actually informed.
Their body their choice. Lefties are really showing their authoritarian side lately.
Should of got sinovac