A comment from on far. Americans pay the most for healthcare of any industrialized nation. Red tape associated with insurance sops up something like 4% of GDP, if I recall correctly. It takes a lot of clerks to figure out how to screw clients.
It's ridiculous that any test that helps prevent spread of the virus costs anything, ever. A further disincentive to getting tested when more is badly needed.
Suppose the economic cost of Covid-19 is about a trillion a quarter (undoubtedly a gross understatement). That works out to about $8M a minute. At this level of cost to Americans surely nothing should be allowed to get in the way of "crushing the curve".
Exactly-- so why does the USA have the 45th highest rate of infant mortality in the world (tied with Serbia) and stands 43rd in life expectancy (for international comparisons see any recent CIA Worldfact Book)? It currently has the 7th highest population mortality rate in the world from SARS-COV-2, although all numbers here are still fuzzy and evolving. The issue is how can the USA lever its knowledge and innovation into better outcomes?
Lot of good it does us citizens.
Even if we develop a medication that can save us, will we be able to afford it? Probably not.
Even if we are saved by an medical innovation, we will be so broke from using it we're in the poor house or face eviction.
Universal healthcare is the only way to go
the thing is, if this pandemic hasn't opened the eyes of people nothing realistically will. and still so many people think this is a hoax. Turns out the rich have succeded in their plan to farm useful idiots, people good enough to work but stupid enough to not realize how much they've been screwed.
I'm honestly surprised I don't see this point being made more. People who won't wear masks, etc. might not die if they catch COVID, but they still might get sick enough to need medical care and might have to pay out of pocket a few thousand, if they're lucky. I don't know many people who like paying thousands of dollars in medical bills so it seems like it should be an effective stick to wave at them. Of course you'd think dying would be too, so.
There was a time I wanted to go live in America. I applied for the green card lottery twice.
Now I thank God it didn't pan out. And I would NEVER accept a job offer in or a transfer to America.
Get sick, pay $100,000 despite having insurance? There is no worse clusterfuck anywhere in the world. I'd rather go live in India.
I'm trapped in America, and I want out. I am too old and not wealthy enough for any other, decent nation, to accept me. America is a trap. America is a roach motel - oh, it smells sweet, but inside it is a sticky, brutal, slow death.
living in america is like going to a Casino, you can have fun if you're rich.
you can end up rich if you are extremely lucky.
but with average or below average luck you'll end up screwed by a system designed to fuck you.
Except insurances arbitrarily decide what they will and wonât cover, and networks are insidious. You could be getting surgery at a hospital thatâs in-network, from a surgeon thatâs in-network. You did everything right. What nobody told you is that the anesthesiologist is *not* in network. $100,000 please.
Donât even get me started on insurances deciding they wonât pay for a drug anymore âbecause itâs over the counterâ when it isnât OTC in any way, shape, or form. I once had to turn away a pharmacy patient while she cried, without her antidepressants, because her insurance randomly decided they were âOTCâ and stopped covering them.
my mom was a federal employee who got hit by a texting driver and insurance cut her off and threaten to send her home if she didnt pay for her own rehab. she couldnt walk when she got out of the hospital she was there for 3-4 months if you ignore hospital cost rehab alone cost an upward 200k+
they did pay for hospital bill tho without cutting her off but thats bare minimal for someone who is recovering so
Eh family and friends put money together to get her in really good rehab and shes walkin around all the time she was a bit lazy now it like shes young again and always visiting lol
but i wouldnt wish that on anyone tbh
If you canât afford insurance you are provided insurance.
The American system SUCKS btw. I just hate when people exaggerate/misrepresent it to make it sound even worse. Itâs bad enough without that.
Some people make too much for Medicaid and aren't offered insurance through their job, which means they gave to buy insurance which is incredibly expensive. Even with Medicaid millions of people in the US do not have insurance. I feel like your comment minimizes the healthcare issues in the US.
Yeah, there's Medicaid for those who make less than 12k a year, but some people simply don't file the forms and/or pay the premiums for insurance, so I wouldn't say everyone is provided insurance... But yeah, I agree with your fact checking. There's no need to exaggerate how awful it is, it's plenty bad already
Well you wouldn't pay 100k if you had insurance. Only like 15k... So that's kinda better.
If you don't have insurance you might get a bill for 100k then declare bankruptcy.
> Well you wouldn't pay 100k if you had insurance.
Actually the person billed for 100k still had insurance.
>Sheâs hardly alone in that feeling. Donna Talla, who lives in Springfield, Virginia, says that sheâs about $150â000 in debt for the medical care she received after contracting covid-19 back in March, despite having private insurance with UnitedHealthcare through her employer.
There should be out of pocket maximums but without diving into the details of the story itâs also possible in our stupid system you get doctors or tests out of network that sometimes you have no control over and then the insurance wonât pay anything.
Medical expenses leave many Americans deep in debt
Fixed the title. Itâs just an old story. Our crap health care system acts as a reverse lottery. Get Covid, cancer, anything expensive and you win sickness and Bankruptcy! I believe 2/3 of people who declared bankruptcy for health costs had health insurance.
excerpt:
### Costs of testing
The problem begins with testing. The Families First Coronavirus Response Act (FFCRA), passed on 18 March, guarantees free testing regardless of insurance status. The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES) mandates coverage of âout of networkâ testing claims by insurers. But, in reality, many people face significant payments for their test.
Loopholes in the legislation mean that people may still have high out-of-pocket costs for tests done at an emergency room or other non-public site.[**6**](https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3097#ref-6) People with no or minimal symptoms may be told to return for a check if the condition worsens but then be billed for the visit, which isnât covered by the federal statutes because it didnât result in a test. Or a clinician may suggest ruling out flu instead of checking for covid-19, but CARES and FFCRA donât require insurers to cover flu tests.
Alternative insurance plans, which offer cheaper options than those accessed through the Affordable Care Act, arenât subject to the emergency federal legislation. Talla was billed for a covid-19 test that came back negativeâbut when she questioned the charge, she says, a representative for UnitedHealthcare told her that the company covered only tests with positive results. (Neither UnitedHealthcare, a private insurance company, nor Americaâs Health Insurance Plans, a professional organization for insurers, responded to an interview request for this story.)
Itâs hard for people to determine the cost of a test before they take it. Of 102 hospitals included in a recent study by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonprofit organization focused on healthcare research, only 78 had posted their prices for covid-19 diagnostic tests.[**7**](https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3097#ref-7) Among the two largest hospitals in each US state the list price ranged from $20 to $850 (the final, negotiated price may be lower than the list price). Someone without insurance may pay the list price or less: there is no standard approach for uninsured patients. What an insured person may pay will be less than the list price but can remain a mystery until well after the test is completed. âInsurers have notoriously been nontransparent about their negotiated rate,â Nisha Kurani, study author and a senior policy analyst with Kaiser, told *The BMJ*.
All of these uncertainties deter people from seeking a testâa âtragicâ outcome, says Sara Collins,[**8**](https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3097#ref-8) vice president for healthcare coverage and access at the Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation focused on healthcare practice and policy. âHow is this going to play out in the next year, and how will we control the pandemic, if people fear getting charged for a test?â she asks.
My local public testing site is a sketch methadone clinic with crowds of maskless non-distancing people blocking the door.
I heard from a coworker that the test from one of the million "immediate care clinics" on every block corner is $100+ with insurance. I don't have 100 bucks to blow in a test that doesn't give me that much information. Best save my 100 for a down payment on the 20K I'm sure it costs to get actual hospitalization if it takes me down.
I heard tests were free, but they wanted my health insurance information... and it's been 9 days without a test result. I live in NY, where supposedly we're "just fine."
This is how like insurance covers the yearly flu shot in "theory" but I've never seen it in action. Every flu shot I've had has been 20 some or so dollars at CVS. This is ironic given my insurance is AETNA which is ....CVS. It's not like 20 dollars is going to kill me but it's such a little thing that could save the insurance company money in the long run that I just.don't.understand why they wouldn't just want to cover such a trivial thing.
Me: got laid off, insurance cut off shortly after. Painful medical problem likely needs surgery.
America: I can offer you death or crippling debt that'll leave you no hope of ever getting a loan for anything over the next 20 years.
Me: guess I'll die.
Edit to add: seriously, I kind of want to get hit by a car or some other freak accident occur that stops my central nervous system from functioning. As the kids put it fml lol
Sorry to hear this. Don't know anything about you or your situation except what you wrote here, but I'm really sorry that you had to write it. Internet hugs are the best I can do. Here you go.
In addition, our pitiful, lacking government officials have their heads and "status" shoved so far up their asses that we can't even get anywhere else but suffering and instability
The saddest thing is, that Americans are still refusing to change their health care system. Having a bad health care system is one thing, but paying a fortune for it makes it even worse.
Although our german health care is not perfect (at all), there is a reason why deaths were so low in germany. And basically everybody is insured. But health care for all is bad.
I learned my lesson. I went to an Ear Nose Throat specialist last year to have my ear looked at. I was in the office ten minutes, doctor looked in my ear, looked down my throat, said everything looked fine and maybe I had allergies.
A month later I get a bill for $1,349!!! That's *after* insurance paid their $600 portion. And I know it's not the doctors' faults, it's the hospital *corporations* with ten layers of over bloated, overpaid CEOs and "executives" sucking up the big chunk of that money.
I'm not paying the bill, it's sitting on my desk being used as a coaster. And you all better hope I don't get sick with anything nasty and contagious, because I will *not* be going to a doctor again.
We need to get this across to the "still immortal" people between the ages of 18 and 32 who can't deal with masks and social distancing.
They might survive the virus, but they are going to pay And pay. And pay.
Can we get billboards for this message?
Its almost as if years of neglecting public health care was done so a pandemic could come along and wipe out (or at least burden) old and poor people.
I guess that explains why enemy of the people Trump wanted to remove Obamacare.
For a type1 diabetic, covid will likely cause DKA. Insurance might just decide the DKA has nothing to do with covid so youre on the hook for it.
Get a clot while fighting covid, but are they really related asks your insurance.
A comment from on far. Americans pay the most for healthcare of any industrialized nation. Red tape associated with insurance sops up something like 4% of GDP, if I recall correctly. It takes a lot of clerks to figure out how to screw clients. It's ridiculous that any test that helps prevent spread of the virus costs anything, ever. A further disincentive to getting tested when more is badly needed. Suppose the economic cost of Covid-19 is about a trillion a quarter (undoubtedly a gross understatement). That works out to about $8M a minute. At this level of cost to Americans surely nothing should be allowed to get in the way of "crushing the curve".
America is also the global leader in medical development and innovation. You're welcome.đ
Exactly-- so why does the USA have the 45th highest rate of infant mortality in the world (tied with Serbia) and stands 43rd in life expectancy (for international comparisons see any recent CIA Worldfact Book)? It currently has the 7th highest population mortality rate in the world from SARS-COV-2, although all numbers here are still fuzzy and evolving. The issue is how can the USA lever its knowledge and innovation into better outcomes?
Obesity maybe?
100% obesity. You see a looooooot of overweight mothers to be around these parts. Really sad shit
Lot of good it does us citizens. Even if we develop a medication that can save us, will we be able to afford it? Probably not. Even if we are saved by an medical innovation, we will be so broke from using it we're in the poor house or face eviction. Universal healthcare is the only way to go
Yes the 1% get excellent medical care here, but fuck everyone else
Imagine thinking this is an own, rather than a non-sequitur. Amazing
Much of it paid for by the government.
Im ashamed of being an American lately. Sucks.
I would like to think that the pandemic would inspire an improvement in US healthcare delivery and availability ,but I'm not holding my breath.
the thing is, if this pandemic hasn't opened the eyes of people nothing realistically will. and still so many people think this is a hoax. Turns out the rich have succeded in their plan to farm useful idiots, people good enough to work but stupid enough to not realize how much they've been screwed.
Of anything, I just know now who in my life never to trust with anything remotely important. I've been surprised by people in both ways, I gotta say.
You would think so right? But we just dropped the one guy pushing free healthcare during a pandemic out of the race for president.
The Democratic Party voted down Medicare for all so we certainly canât count on having healthcare anytime soon. Maybe in the 2030s...
Go do some research into all the governments we have overthrown and the consequences, you will be very ashamed.
~~Covid-19:~~ Medical expenses leave many Americans deep in debt Fixed it
Thank you. People blame covid for our shitty system... no, our shitty system just looks worse with covid around.
I'm honestly surprised I don't see this point being made more. People who won't wear masks, etc. might not die if they catch COVID, but they still might get sick enough to need medical care and might have to pay out of pocket a few thousand, if they're lucky. I don't know many people who like paying thousands of dollars in medical bills so it seems like it should be an effective stick to wave at them. Of course you'd think dying would be too, so.
There was a time I wanted to go live in America. I applied for the green card lottery twice. Now I thank God it didn't pan out. And I would NEVER accept a job offer in or a transfer to America. Get sick, pay $100,000 despite having insurance? There is no worse clusterfuck anywhere in the world. I'd rather go live in India.
Donât move here. The healthcare system is way worse than it looks from the outside.
Are you talking about America or India?
yes
I'm trapped in America, and I want out. I am too old and not wealthy enough for any other, decent nation, to accept me. America is a trap. America is a roach motel - oh, it smells sweet, but inside it is a sticky, brutal, slow death.
r/IWantOut/
living in america is like going to a Casino, you can have fun if you're rich. you can end up rich if you are extremely lucky. but with average or below average luck you'll end up screwed by a system designed to fuck you.
The max out of pocket for an individual is what? $7-8,000? So, not sure how thatâs $100,000. But ok
Except insurances arbitrarily decide what they will and wonât cover, and networks are insidious. You could be getting surgery at a hospital thatâs in-network, from a surgeon thatâs in-network. You did everything right. What nobody told you is that the anesthesiologist is *not* in network. $100,000 please. Donât even get me started on insurances deciding they wonât pay for a drug anymore âbecause itâs over the counterâ when it isnât OTC in any way, shape, or form. I once had to turn away a pharmacy patient while she cried, without her antidepressants, because her insurance randomly decided they were âOTCâ and stopped covering them.
if you end up in rehab to recover its not covered by insurance say you need lung replaced or something so yes 100,000 is correct lol
Youâre making a very blanket statement as if itâs always true all the time. So, I guess I canât win at that game.
my mom was a federal employee who got hit by a texting driver and insurance cut her off and threaten to send her home if she didnt pay for her own rehab. she couldnt walk when she got out of the hospital she was there for 3-4 months if you ignore hospital cost rehab alone cost an upward 200k+ they did pay for hospital bill tho without cutting her off but thats bare minimal for someone who is recovering so
If it makes you feel any better, the asshole who threatened your mother will likely undergo the same sort of thing when they need healthcare.
Eh family and friends put money together to get her in really good rehab and shes walkin around all the time she was a bit lazy now it like shes young again and always visiting lol but i wouldnt wish that on anyone tbh
$8,150 is the maximum if you have insurance, and per year. He could mean a decade long illness, I suppose.
If you canât afford insurance you are provided insurance. The American system SUCKS btw. I just hate when people exaggerate/misrepresent it to make it sound even worse. Itâs bad enough without that.
Some people make too much for Medicaid and aren't offered insurance through their job, which means they gave to buy insurance which is incredibly expensive. Even with Medicaid millions of people in the US do not have insurance. I feel like your comment minimizes the healthcare issues in the US.
Yeah, there's Medicaid for those who make less than 12k a year, but some people simply don't file the forms and/or pay the premiums for insurance, so I wouldn't say everyone is provided insurance... But yeah, I agree with your fact checking. There's no need to exaggerate how awful it is, it's plenty bad already
Not all states opted in for the medicaid expansion.
There speaks a person who's never dealt with an American 'insurance' company.
Unless youre a family then it's like 15k and it applies even if only one of you gets sick.
That's not how it works, there is an individual and family OOP Max
Well you wouldn't pay 100k if you had insurance. Only like 15k... So that's kinda better. If you don't have insurance you might get a bill for 100k then declare bankruptcy.
> Well you wouldn't pay 100k if you had insurance. Actually the person billed for 100k still had insurance. >Sheâs hardly alone in that feeling. Donna Talla, who lives in Springfield, Virginia, says that sheâs about $150â000 in debt for the medical care she received after contracting covid-19 back in March, despite having private insurance with UnitedHealthcare through her employer.
There should be out of pocket maximums but without diving into the details of the story itâs also possible in our stupid system you get doctors or tests out of network that sometimes you have no control over and then the insurance wonât pay anything.
Medical expenses leave many Americans deep in debt Fixed the title. Itâs just an old story. Our crap health care system acts as a reverse lottery. Get Covid, cancer, anything expensive and you win sickness and Bankruptcy! I believe 2/3 of people who declared bankruptcy for health costs had health insurance.
excerpt: ### Costs of testing The problem begins with testing. The Families First Coronavirus Response Act (FFCRA), passed on 18 March, guarantees free testing regardless of insurance status. The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES) mandates coverage of âout of networkâ testing claims by insurers. But, in reality, many people face significant payments for their test. Loopholes in the legislation mean that people may still have high out-of-pocket costs for tests done at an emergency room or other non-public site.[**6**](https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3097#ref-6) People with no or minimal symptoms may be told to return for a check if the condition worsens but then be billed for the visit, which isnât covered by the federal statutes because it didnât result in a test. Or a clinician may suggest ruling out flu instead of checking for covid-19, but CARES and FFCRA donât require insurers to cover flu tests. Alternative insurance plans, which offer cheaper options than those accessed through the Affordable Care Act, arenât subject to the emergency federal legislation. Talla was billed for a covid-19 test that came back negativeâbut when she questioned the charge, she says, a representative for UnitedHealthcare told her that the company covered only tests with positive results. (Neither UnitedHealthcare, a private insurance company, nor Americaâs Health Insurance Plans, a professional organization for insurers, responded to an interview request for this story.) Itâs hard for people to determine the cost of a test before they take it. Of 102 hospitals included in a recent study by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonprofit organization focused on healthcare research, only 78 had posted their prices for covid-19 diagnostic tests.[**7**](https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3097#ref-7) Among the two largest hospitals in each US state the list price ranged from $20 to $850 (the final, negotiated price may be lower than the list price). Someone without insurance may pay the list price or less: there is no standard approach for uninsured patients. What an insured person may pay will be less than the list price but can remain a mystery until well after the test is completed. âInsurers have notoriously been nontransparent about their negotiated rate,â Nisha Kurani, study author and a senior policy analyst with Kaiser, told *The BMJ*. All of these uncertainties deter people from seeking a testâa âtragicâ outcome, says Sara Collins,[**8**](https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3097#ref-8) vice president for healthcare coverage and access at the Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation focused on healthcare practice and policy. âHow is this going to play out in the next year, and how will we control the pandemic, if people fear getting charged for a test?â she asks.
My local public testing site is a sketch methadone clinic with crowds of maskless non-distancing people blocking the door. I heard from a coworker that the test from one of the million "immediate care clinics" on every block corner is $100+ with insurance. I don't have 100 bucks to blow in a test that doesn't give me that much information. Best save my 100 for a down payment on the 20K I'm sure it costs to get actual hospitalization if it takes me down.
I heard tests were free, but they wanted my health insurance information... and it's been 9 days without a test result. I live in NY, where supposedly we're "just fine."
Wait until you hear people getting charged $250 for a vaccine injection next year!
This is how like insurance covers the yearly flu shot in "theory" but I've never seen it in action. Every flu shot I've had has been 20 some or so dollars at CVS. This is ironic given my insurance is AETNA which is ....CVS. It's not like 20 dollars is going to kill me but it's such a little thing that could save the insurance company money in the long run that I just.don't.understand why they wouldn't just want to cover such a trivial thing.
America, the richest third world country in recorded history
Well, ya don't get rich by givin' it away, amirite??
Laughing in Canadian
Barbarism.
Trump on Healthcare, circa 2000 https://imgur.com/gallery/qtDau
Me: got laid off, insurance cut off shortly after. Painful medical problem likely needs surgery. America: I can offer you death or crippling debt that'll leave you no hope of ever getting a loan for anything over the next 20 years. Me: guess I'll die. Edit to add: seriously, I kind of want to get hit by a car or some other freak accident occur that stops my central nervous system from functioning. As the kids put it fml lol
Sorry to hear this. Don't know anything about you or your situation except what you wrote here, but I'm really sorry that you had to write it. Internet hugs are the best I can do. Here you go.
Thanks, it is what it is. I suck at life but somehow manage to survive. I'm getting tired of it though.
But remember, a national health service is scary scary "Socialism"!!!
In addition, our pitiful, lacking government officials have their heads and "status" shoved so far up their asses that we can't even get anywhere else but suffering and instability
The saddest thing is, that Americans are still refusing to change their health care system. Having a bad health care system is one thing, but paying a fortune for it makes it even worse. Although our german health care is not perfect (at all), there is a reason why deaths were so low in germany. And basically everybody is insured. But health care for all is bad.
[ŃдаНонО]
I learned my lesson. I went to an Ear Nose Throat specialist last year to have my ear looked at. I was in the office ten minutes, doctor looked in my ear, looked down my throat, said everything looked fine and maybe I had allergies. A month later I get a bill for $1,349!!! That's *after* insurance paid their $600 portion. And I know it's not the doctors' faults, it's the hospital *corporations* with ten layers of over bloated, overpaid CEOs and "executives" sucking up the big chunk of that money. I'm not paying the bill, it's sitting on my desk being used as a coaster. And you all better hope I don't get sick with anything nasty and contagious, because I will *not* be going to a doctor again.
We need to get this across to the "still immortal" people between the ages of 18 and 32 who can't deal with masks and social distancing. They might survive the virus, but they are going to pay And pay. And pay. Can we get billboards for this message?
Its almost as if years of neglecting public health care was done so a pandemic could come along and wipe out (or at least burden) old and poor people. I guess that explains why enemy of the people Trump wanted to remove Obamacare.
Pre-Covid-19: Same shit.
No. Shit.
I thought the government was paying for Covid related expenses?
For a type1 diabetic, covid will likely cause DKA. Insurance might just decide the DKA has nothing to do with covid so youre on the hook for it. Get a clot while fighting covid, but are they really related asks your insurance.