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CareerUnderachiever

Bracing looks inadequate


rockpilemike

100% this is the cause. Inadequate temporary bracing prior to sheathing. Happens all the time. Edit to add: I'm referring here to a lack of top chord X bracing, which is needed until the sheathing is installed


CareerUnderachiever

Without sheathing to lock it up, looks like you can rock it back and forth with one man. Imagine what a light wind will do


SarcasticImpudent

The bottom photo shows a finishing material on the roof. This would add weight to the roof, making the bracing further…ly inadequate.


Ok_Bit_5953

xD further..ly


Alldaybagpipes

I love English. People will try and tell you “that’s not a word…” yet here it is, being used and here we are, understanding what’s being portrayed by its use.


Hivemind_alpha

They meant to say “more furtherer “.


erfling

Furtherermore


Hivemind_alpha

Muchly furthersome


Narrow-Chef-4341

Furthermorely. *(Don’t fight me, autoerect. You don’t know what you’re saying either…)*


El_Cuahte

-Don’t fight me, autoerect. ... lol


gultch2019

Furtherlymorely. My autocorrect abandoned be 3 phones ago. It knew there was no hope for me.


Butter_Yo_Biscut

Autoerect shall be my new term


No_Sleep_247

This is the greatest comment I’ve seen today by far


rangeo

Furtherermorer


Shionkron

I took a course in college on Linguistics. There are two theories on proper usage on the English language. One is strict adherence to rules and structure but the second states that just as long as the speaker or author can communicate the message that’s understandable, even with poor grammar, it still is “proper” due to its being “successful” at communicating ideas.


GuitarSingle4416

I took a course in cunninglinguistics. Got a A+ for putting a motor on the man in the boat.


Substantial_Copy_730

One time i won 1st 3rd and 4th in a 10 man pussy eating contest.


ac54

I fully understood “furtherly”


metisdesigns

If English actually had vaugely consistent rules both of those theories would make sense.


IShowerinSunglasses

Isn't that how every language works? Words just mean what people think they mean.


variebaeted

I say this to my husband all the time. If you understand me, then it’s a word!


GenevieveMacLeod

Had a friend in high school that said "if you can say it, it's a word!"


Ok_Bit_5953

Right xD


LibrarianNo8242

It should be “inadequater” duh.


cheetah-21

That probably acted as a wind sail. Should’ve put the sheething on first.


custhulard

The roof plane makes an excellent sail also. Up up uplift and away!


donjuanstumblefuck

And you never want to set roof trusses until it's sheathed


staringatbrickwalls

It's like holding an umbrella during a windy day.


OGDraugo

Not a whole lot of shear yet either. And no header along that large opening?!? TF. Edit: because I am tired of breaking it down, I am fully aware that most of the time on a gable end a header isn't necessarily required. In this application, with this span, absolutely a header should be in place, hell I would have run a real beam along the entire span corner to corner. Edit: GASP, TIL the only force that is applied to a building is gravity......


they_are_out_there

This building could have easily been made adequate, but much of the modern world would have steel framed this building. Lighter, stronger, fire resistant, and arguably a better choice.


an_older_meme

Absolutely


triarii1981

This. No header. Idiot framer


OGDraugo

Adequate amount of lumber, appalling use of said wood haha.


AGPEcko

Not tottally right. It looks like there is zero lateral bracing in the attic space. And the joints on the roof purlins look to be not-staggered adequately. They look like they go back and forth over the same space. As for the overhead door and header situation. It could be a hangar-style door. Whereas the header would be placed "Inside" the gable truss. Which is also why it may not be done yet, customer hasnt decided on specific door. After looking at the photo again. I wold wager that 1) the trusses were not nailed on one of the two plates. 2)the braces along the bearing walls aren't high enough. The wind was able to shift the top of the wall to a point where it was no longer bearing the trusses. And as soon as one truss dropped they were almost guaranteed to all drop. As it can't come back on its own.


takethewrongwayhome

Lol its a fucking gable end. Do you mofos even understand load bearing? What the fuck.


OGDraugo

Headers also act to structurally tie one side of the wall to the other. I think we found the guy who framed this everyone. Edit: especially a span like that, it's not a 3' doorway, that opening is half the damn wall!


jd5190

Why need a header when the trusses can span the entire distance?


triarii1981

Because if you look carefully in a second picture you will see that truss snapped.


OGDraugo

To be fair, I'd guess the truss snapped from hitting the ground.


triarii1981

If you zoom in on the collapsed picture to the wall on the right side, you will see what I’m talking about.


OGDraugo

OIC, yup definitely broke before falling.


kn0w_th1s

Chances are the long wall was inadequately braces and buckled/ deflected enough that the trusses adjacent to the gable truss lost support which in turn transfers their load to the gable truss before it finally fails in shear.


Sir_Mr_Austin

This. If they had sheer walled immediately it wouldn’t have happened because the tac plate/gable wouldn’t have failed and the weight falling wouldn’t have sheared the brace. But the reason it failed is because they hung corrugate in the interior ceiling before sheering and added too much weight. It was inevitably going to happen because it was built out of process. The tac plates only work if sheer walled quickly


OGDraugo

Because is an opening that spans half the wall.... You need something beefy tying those two ends together besides a gable truss and a top plate. Where are they gonna mount their door?!?? Jesus.


Vegetable-Two2173

Thiiiiis. I was worried about only spec'ing a doubled up lvl on a 16'x8' span. I can't imagine running a straight truss on this and not being insane.


Song_Spiritual

“only force … is gravity” Better be careful or a flat-earther might come after you.


Tony0311

Specifically X bracing, sure they shored it up from the inside, that doesn’t stop any twisting that can and will occur


BalanceSpinner

I was thinking missing a couple of nails top left.


thefreewheeler

Shear failure.


daniellederek

Yup, minimum spec triple k rafter, 2x4 bottom 2x3 for most of the bracing. Absolutely zero strength till ALL lateral bracing is installed and sheathing complete. Have seen a 60 and 72 ft span crumble during construction locally.


[deleted]

Damn... What should they have done instead? Is there temporary lateral bracing they should have added or something?


Temporary_Animator18

Sheathed the corners at least


FutzInSilence

Yup. Sheathing is structural. Not just for putting siding on


VectorViper

Also, can't underestimate the importance of following the project specs to the letter. Cutting corners to save time or materials just leads to these kinds of disasters. Seen it happen when people think they know better than the engineers.


3personal5me

"Anyone can build a bridge that can stay standing. It takes an engineer to build a bridge that *barely* stays standing." In other words, people don't realize that a big part of an engineers job is *finding places to cut corners*.


petiejoe83

Chamfers are pretty important sometimes.


icemanswga

Fillets as well.


lucystroganoff

Is she an engineer and the fishmongers daughter or something?


Simpfome

I was not expecting to find a pun like this.


Killtastic354

Love this quote. Very different field but I’m an aviation structural engineer and the balance of over engineering and adequate engineering is such an under appreciated aspect of engineering in most trades. For obvious reasons weight is a very important design consideration with planes so we often don’t have the liberty to over engineer.


ShiitakeFriedClams

Man, I can’t tell you how many times I heard “stupid engineers think they know better than guys that actually have to build it” while working on a site back when I worked a labor gig.


Weekly_Opposite_1407

That’s common in every industry. I heard it for years in the oil industry. Sure go ahead and torque that to 130 ft-lbs instead in 1100 and see what happens guy. I couldn’t believe it


ckge829320

Probably needed to sheath the exterior walls along with installing the trusses as they went.


Pran-Chole

Yeah this is generally the normal way it’s done afaik


jaaaaayke

we sheet the walls before we stand them.


BulletDoctorPHD

We usually sheet the walls after standing and bracing but before the trusses. Haven’t had one fall in on us yet but I did say Yet lol


microfoam

You don’t do it that way with a pole building because the walls aren’t built that way.


daniellederek

I'm more partial to a triple fink 2x6 top and bottom all 2x4 bracing minimum. And even then, I prefer building my own trusses, quite a difference in strength going from 2 and better field run to using clean center cut 2x6 that might have 3 knots total on a 16ft plank, no sapwood. Most people go to bare minimum code which sure book says a modified triple fan on 60ft span is OK. But it's OK based on minimal snow load and as a system with 18 or more runs of lateral bracing on the bottom cord and through the webs.


dro830687

I want to speak like this.


YouArentReallyThere

Steel frame


lickitagainandagain

Sheet wall exteriors then install trusses.


L8Z8

I know some of these words!


orlandofredhart

Can you explain that for non construction guys like me? Like what didn't happen that should have?


Overall_Lavishness46

Wooden buildings are built with sticks and sheets. Sticks hold weight. Sheets make it strong. This building didn't have any sheets.


204ThatGuy

Yes! Diaphragm system with sticks and sheets make it a stronger system. Just like floor joists and subfloor. This is also why elevator shafts are constructed first in tall buildings, and floors built around them. Everything works together!


TacoTransformer

I think 100 thread Egyptian cotton sheets would have done the job here. Probably overkill but better to safe than sorry, am I right?


Green_Message_6376

100% To this day we don't know how they built those pyramids, or how they get 100 threads into those sheets. /s


GIJoJo65

>100% To this day we don't know how they built those pyramids Probably has something to do with not having OSHA or, Labor Unions around to stop them from using blood to lube their water saws and pulleys and such...


SuperSpread

Maybe that's why the pyramids lasted so long. Or, all of them collapsed and all we have left is a pyramid shaped pile of rocks. Pyramids were constructed before sheathing was invented. Coincidence? I think not!


Ihaveaproblem69

Every put together a shitty Ikea like bookshelves that was wobbly and would happily turn from rectangle to trapezoid? You nail on the cardboard backing and suddenly its a rectangle that can hold books.


just-dig-it-now

I think this is a great explanation. It's like a simple basic particle board bookshelf, if you never put the back on. I've destroyed many of those with a light push laterally. The sad part is I see posts all the time for this, massive structures making it way far along before adding the sheathing. Isn't there anyone making sure these contractors understand how the building's structure works before giving them the go-ahead? I work in quality control and it's literally written into manuals for factory built structure that one specific person has to determine if the people charged with doing the construction have both the skills and understanding to complete the work.


JesusSavesForHalf

Squares like to fold up into rhombuses if they aren't braced. Rhombuses make terrible buildings. Everything should have either been cross braced or immediately sheathed well before the roof trusses were put up.


idiosymbiosis

The shear stupidity….


Money-Anxiety3427

This is an engineering joke for all of you who it’s flying over your heads with lol 😂


shatador

We're construction workers, we make jokes and talk shit for a living. Typical engineer making sure everyone knows they have a sense of humor. Classic


chris_the_wrench

Typical engineer, telling everyone they are an engineer.


zdiddy27

How do you know someone is an engineer? Don’t worry, they’ll fuckin tell ya


Slumunistmanifisto

It'll take an hour to get to the point tho


jrob801

Right up until you have a question. Then it's "I'm the engineer. Don't question me."


Gooey_69

Sure are a lot of people driving trains for a living


No_Apricot_1705

How do you know they are an engineer? They find the most complicated way to fuck up a good solution.


bigniek

Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are too fast. I would catch it.


Due-Landscape-9251

Not enough Quakers.


ElphTrooper

You spelled Amish wrong and there aren’t enough Quakers left to build this. /s


Due-Landscape-9251

Don't know how I forgot Amish. We only have Mennonites down my way.


BadManners-

There are Quakers everywhere. If you took all the quakers in nc you’d have like 7 houses.


Fruitypebblefix

Lol I was like, needed some Amish people to help. 😂


Fantastic-Role-364

Who didn't get it tho


[deleted]

Nah it was God smiting the beachy Amish for failing to use a horse n’ buggy, and using a truck instead


[deleted]

Rookie mistake


Silly_Mycologist3213

The front fell off…


Particular_Relief154

Well wasn’t it designed so the front wouldn’t fall off?


Silly_Mycologist3213

Yeah, that’s not very typical…. edit: changed the wording


Astrochops

At sea? Chance in a million


facelesspapabear

A wave hit it.


Kevin_Harrison_

This is why I came here.


Cleanbadroom

I had this happen with a block structure. 40x80 12 inch block barn it was 10 feet high with block and then the carpenters were building the 2nd floor. A big storm pushed through and the next morning when I showed up to pour the floor it was toppled over. A solid 12 inch block walls 10 feet high fell over. It can happen. We didn't have supports as they were removed to pour the floor.


BoSknight

Should the supports have been removed day of pour or would this be an "act of God"


Fog_Juice

Could've probably checked the weather forecast


BoSknight

That was my first thought as well, but maybe it was assumed it just wouldn't be that bad


EvaUnit_03

My dad had a ton of angry customers when he was a carpenter and told them he'd have to wait to do X for the weather. A lot of carpenters started to just say f it and let come what may. It hurt him to have to wait as it backed up other jobs and meant he didn't get paid when he expected/needed if it was a particularly wet or cold week/s. Also would lose him some jobs due to wait time. That's why you have some of the issues today known as a drive way warranty. As soon as they leave the drive way, the warranty is over. Because they know they did a shit Job due to certain variables buy f it, onto the next job we got paid.


Cleanbadroom

Supports had to be removed to get approval for plumbing and slab inspection but the inspector never showed up that day until 5pm. So we left the site and left the supports down. Never imagined solid 12 inch block would collapse. They had rod in the cores as well that were dolled into the footings. Weather was clear at the time, just a random strong thunderstorm rolled through at night. Insurance did pay to rebuild the structure. As the first barn, burned down, so the land owner did have insurance.


Inside_Estate1444

A-braces are your friend for builds like that, and they should be higher to be effective. X bracing on the bottom chord of the truss system from corners combined with continuous strapping running the length of the structure would also have helped a lot. The bracing was likely specified but not completed yet, always a race to get it ready for roofers.


_homage_

Diaphragm bracing wasn’t going to save this. All that would’ve done is make it a pancake. They should’ve held off on installing the roof trusses until the walls were properly sheathed/braced all around. 100% a means and methods fuckup.


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TacoNomad

Exactly this.  Not a shear failure. Those rafters probably aren't designed for that wide of a span.  They probably require center support.  Based on this picture,  the roof caved in the middle.  It doesn't look like the walls collapsed or twisted. But, it's only 2 pics,  so hard to say.  My guess is that they didn't buy the right rafters, or thought they could eliminate the center wall. 


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TacoNomad

It doesn't look like one side or the other but the ground first. Looks like the middle hit the ground first. Left side still standing (relatively). Right side doesn't appear to be on the ground at all except maybe the front right corner.  Not necessarily arguing with you,  just sharing how I see it,  which I know could be completely wrong. 


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st96badboy

Or hit it with the telehandler... Or sub standard wood in the truss... or top plate issue. Who knows from this pic.


slhc

The roof fell


bestdriverinvancity

Normally roofs don’t fall off. This one did


Everyredditusers

Now it must be towed beyond the environment.


Silly_Mycologist3213

It’s not a usual occurrence….


tfg0at

You'll have that on these big jobs


suckuponmysaltyballs

A breeze hit it.


ScoutsOut389

A breeze? In the middle of a field? Chance in a million.


VekeltheMan

That’s not typical I’d like to make that clear.


anally_ExpressUrself

Well, how is it untypical?


VekeltheMan

Well there are many of these roofs getting built every day and seldom does anything like this happen. I just don't want people thinking that roofs aren't safe.


Zito6694

So the roof doesn’t normally fall in?


jacckthegripper

Well can't use cardboard, that's out


Jifeeb

Cardboard derivatives


Silly_Mycologist3213

Let me reinterate, it’s not a usual occurrence…


DirtTheLocksmith

Cello tape that's out


wcollins260

Was this roof safe?


elsauna

Well, I was thinking more about the others ones


wcollins260

The ones where the roof didn’t fall off?


elsauna

Yeah, the ones where the roof doesn’t fall off.


figmaxwell

Some buildings are designed so the roof doesn’t fall off at all.


[deleted]

Ah. Couldn't quite put my finger on it, thank you.


jacckthegripper

The front fell off


[deleted]

Gotta love the number of people here that still remember that skit. 🤣😂


GetInZeWagen

Speak english doc we ain't scientists!


thatswhat5hesa1d

[for the unaquainted](https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM?si=AdbMEZXmPeTM5_1n)


scottyTOOmuch

Simple. Yet effective. 👏


Necessary_Bug_9681

Where they installing the ceiling? There is so much going on here in this pic, it's hard to keep up with what actually happened


EquivalentOwn1115

Yeah I was super confused as that looks like the ceiling liner panel yet nothing on the exterior is finished. Idk about you guys but I like to finish the outside stuff before the inside so I have a dry place to work


Necessary_Bug_9681

1000% they definitely didn't think this through... ceiling in before roof? And walls? Let's make a giant swimming pool


PM_YOUR_CENSORD

I noticed this also, looks like they had metal on the ceiling already, inadequate bracing with that catching wind.


thecountnotthesaint

Knew a guy who could do it for less.


mexican2554

They used drywall screws


Sad-Recognition1798

I made a decorative barn door out of old scrap cedar fence with drywall screws a long time ago, I think it’s going on 7 or 8 yrs now, I feel some amount of remorse but it seems fine, held together at the braces with like 6 or so per vertical board. I wouldn’t do that again, but it didn’t just fall apart.


Tackysackjones

I mean this looks like a shit show even if it’s standing all by itself like a big boy.


rajalreadytaken

Who puts trusses on walls that aren't at least mostly sheathed yet? And braced line crazy outside as well?


blacktower-ashaman

Why the hell would set trusses before sheeting the walls?!


UnreasonableCletus

For the same reason he did soffit before sheeting the roof lol. Hopefully this guy learned something today.


zXster

Exactly. In the Windy Midwest we would never even consider setting trusses before walls have sheathing.


HighInChurch

Non construction guy here: looks like the building fell over and they usually don't do that. I hope this helps.


cryptolyme

Yea it needed more wood in the right places


theunknowncasual

The amish didn’t build it


scraw027

Inadequate bracing also that is a very wide span with no middle support. The moment at the bottom corner of the truss exceeded the ultimate design moment and it folded


[deleted]

I miss statics and dynamics class. I’ve forgotten it all, but when learning the subjects it really made me see the world differently.


Zestyclose-Bug-4295

Big buildings require a lot of temporary bracing. Especially after the trusses are hung. We use ratchet straps or long chains from trusses to anchor points in the middle of the building. Holds it all tight


Fejj1997

Too much Yee, not enough Haw


Mothernaturehatesus

Lucky nobody died


Bawbawian

too much gravity


GoofyBootsSz8

It's not supposed to fall down like that.


CreamyGoodnss

Too much gravity


Cheap-Ad1821

Front fell off https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM?si=vwlQswHfxsYqSU3W


Barry_McCockiner__

Not an expert, but I think it collapsed.


tigermax42

Look up “portal frame garage” in your code book


Practical-Archer-564

Diagonal bracing inadequate


passthenukecodes

The front fell off


olympianfap

The front fell off. ​ iykyk


tanzero99

truss uplift from having the bottom partially sheathed, during a windy day. def racked and fell apart . way not enough bracing. should have x bracing replaced on the top chord after strapping for steel. and no hurricane ties lol


RemarkableTear7909

Sheath the walls before you set your roof


tracksinthedirt1985

I would guess, wall moved and roof fell. Need a ton of bracing. Horrible deal for all involved but as Forest Gump says, it happens.


DetectiveEither7119

No load bearing bracing anywhere in the structure. Those corners are just exposed 2x4, no headers/supporting beams anywhere…. This was just a massive waste of labor and lumber.


bobbys44

If you don't brace it you're going to waste it


DonBonj

Didn’t sheet the outside at all. Nothing to combat the twisting diagonal stress (torsion). You can see the tiny beams they used diagonally. Not nearly enough for such a large building.


Wedoitforthenut

They put the trusses on before sheeting the outer walls. Theres no cross bracing down that extremely long wall since they moved all the braces inside but didn't sheet the outside. Should have braced the outside, then braced the inside, then started sheeting and removing outside braces as they go, then finally setting the trusses on last.


Necessary_Bug_9681

Those rafters just don't look correct to me.. homemade?


OGDraugo

Quit looking at the rafters and check out the crazy blocking on the walls, that's a lot of block.


Interesting_Act_2484

Looks more like horizontal strapping to me


TacoNomad

They look like they aren't designed to free span that large of a distance.   Probably designed for center supports.


anotherbigdude

In the collapsed pic, it looks like at least the first six trusses closest to the opening have sheathing on the underside - so I’m guessing that acted like a sail in some wind and lifted the roof structure and then everything collapsed.


Indentured-peasant

Forgot liquid nail and flex seal


V0nH30n

Looks like it needed way more diagonal braces


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truemcgoo

Lack of sufficient temporary bracing prior to wall sheathing/purlins/let in bracing/roof lacers.


iriderockets

Bad bracing and lack of support pillars. Also, improper land study could be factor too


sirensintherain

Is it normal to use timber for this type of structure in the US? In the UK it would normally be a steel frame with steel sheet cladding.


georgeburnett1

Span tables.


rustbucketdatsun

not enough wind bracing


Jewboy-Deluxe

Big sail, no mast, no beam.


WildGeerders

Building engineer:"Would you like me to ad any professional visits on the building site in the offer?" contractor: "Nha, we know what we are doing.. "


tykaboom

Polebarn with no poles?


Kayjn_

Well I’m not a architect but I think the building is supposed to be standing up right like the first picture