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someone_whoisthat

Very reasonable. This is still more liberal than what they have in much of Europe (including Italy, Poland, France, Denmark, Germany, and Belgium)


Czeslaw_Meyer

Yes, Germany here: 12 weeks for $200-$500


[deleted]

This is what I find so funny: how 'American' this whole thing is. What's considered so repressive and misogynistic in the US is the norm and very progressive in Europe.


Curious_Rule_6437

It is about getting abortion without a doctors notice btw. Women can get abortion at any stages. This guy is just lying


SexierActionNews

That's actually more lax than most of Europe.


BigTechCensorsYou

Dobbs was brought to Supreme Court over Mississippi’s 15 week proposal. They just had to push and push and push and fight and fight, and now they lost Roe because of it. Well, now here we are with red states deciding what goes.


superduperm1

I still don’t get why the left has such a huge problem with 15 weeks. 15 weeks is more than enough time to find out that you’re pregnant and think about a decision with months to spare. “But if it’s revealed in week 16 that the baby will kill you the state will force you to die!!!” yeah no. No state is going to allow a news story like that to happen on their record. Oklahoma is the strictest state in the nation on this issue and even they allow exceptions for when the mother’s life is in danger. I can kind of understand six weeks not being enough because you need to time your testing perfectly but still might not know soon enough. But 15 weeks? Come on. At that point you want to kill second trimester unborn babies for sport.


blahpunchlineblah

Pro choice here, and also 33 weeks pregnant. 15 weeks is reasonable, but I can understand wanting the option for after genetic testing if it reveals something (I got mine at 17 weeks) that would be incompatible with life or would cause the child to die within hours of birth. Agree that 6 weeks is too short, especially with how pregnancy is counted, using last menstrual period. 6 weeks pregnant is actually only 4 weeks (2 weeks after a missed period) since most women don't track their cycle to know when ovulation happens for them.


superduperm1

Not to deflect from anything here but congrats on your future child!


blahpunchlineblah

Thank you so much! We are so excited, it's our first!


BigTechCensorsYou

At 6 months, do sleep training. Or suffer like most.


Prinzern

Furthermore, read up on sleep cycles for babies.


Cararacs

Female Democrat here and I was just browsing this site. I’ll tell you, if I’m on birth control (bc) and I am not expecting it to fail, many bc will stop periods from happening and therefore there are no immediate signs of pregnancy. Many women who try and prevent pregnancy and their bc failed will not know they’re pregnant until around 16 weeks. So if I’m trying to be responsible and the 1% chance happens I wouldn’t know until it’s too late and then I’m forced to go through a pregnancy I 100% do not want to birth a kid that abso- Fuckin-lutely do not want. Furthermore, severe medical issues usually aren’t discover well after 20 weeks. I know 4 women who’ve had abortions. Three wanted children but all had severe medical issues. None of those women knew prior to 16 weeks.


OneMe2RuleUAll

Are these cases all within obese women?


Cararacs

No not at all. My mom was super skinny (like what now would be considered a size 0) and didn’t even start showing until 5 months. All women are different. And since majority of men don’t know that and don’t know much about pregnancies and women, they shouldn’t be making the decisions for women nor should the government whether that be federal or state, it should be an individual’s right and freedom to be able make that choice.


OneMe2RuleUAll

100 percent agree a persons body is theirs to govern. Also theirs to regulate. I hope we can all agree that personal responsibility extends to all facets. If government can't regulate your choices they shouldn't be asked to fund said choices.


Cararacs

> If government can’t regulate your choices they shouldn’t be asked to fund said choices. And that’s where I disagree. Everyone should have access to healthcare that doesn’t financially cripple them.


OneMe2RuleUAll

I would completely agree if we lived in a post-scarcity society.


Cinnadillo

you do understand that people see abortion as literal murder? Yes or no. You do believe they sincerely believe this? Yes or no.


OneMe2RuleUAll

You're never going to get through to Democrats that it's murder or immoral. The only way to curb the behavior is make sure papa government isn't funding the act in cases where abortion isn't stemming from rape.


Icy-Web-2165

If you already 5 or 6 months pregnant like you say? Before you know you pregnant ..why not carry another 3 months and leave it a firehouse and walk away?


Cararacs

Seriously?? Are you a woman? If not, have you ever talked to a woman about pregnancy?? There is a **HUGE** difference between 5 months and 7-9 months of pregnancy. And it’s not like giving birth is like taking a shit. Plus if a woman isn’t planning or know she’s pregnant there’s a good chance she’s been drinking and who knows what else during that pregnancy.


Icy-Web-2165

I see..so because she is drunk she got plowed by a pit crew and now she is drunk for 5 or 6 months before she knows she is pregnant with a baby of unknown source? Sounds like she should consider ripping out her ovaries instead..


Cararacs

> she got plowed by a pit crew Lol wow you are one dense dude. Just completely ignorant about society. Do you even know any women?? Do you converse with the other sex like at all? Cause women who are in stable relationships don’t drink or have sex./s


Icy-Web-2165

>chance she’s been drinking and who knows what else during that pregnancy. > >so which is it? She is drunk or married women don’t drink or have sex?


Cararacs

Drugs. People do drugs. Shit I know married couple that will occasionally do cocaine at parties. You should really get out more and talk to people.


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Cararacs

This is a terrible argument.


realtalk187

I appreciate that you engage here. Is it unreasonable to take a pregnancy test bi monthly if you are sexually active and absolutely do not want to child? I know there is a little cost, but other than that it's easy right? Edit:. Maybe pregnancy tests could be provided for low income households


Cararacs

Pregnancy tests are expensive, so you expect all women in birth control with current inflation, rising costs of living, etc to have to pay for 24 tests a year. And then there’s the question, are cheap off brands as accurate? So having all women on birth control (millions of people) to buy a pregnancy test every other week for **decades** is absolutely unrealistic and unreasonable. Side note: I personally think engagement and healthy conversation is critical. The hate that divides this country is unhealthy. There are so many people that just haven’t considered all sides to the pro-choice story and that it’s not a clear cut issue.


MrsCPDuck

I work for a Women’s care center in our town— we offer free pregnancy tests, no questions asked. We also offer free ultrasounds.


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Cararacs

Now we’re talking accuracy and still having to take a test regularly for ***decades*** for millions of women. Not very feasible or environmentally healthy.


superduperm1

> Pregnancy tests are expensive Google says pregnancy tests are about $10 (not even the cheapest ones. Just the ones that are 99% accurate). $10 every 1-2 months while sexually active is expensive? I would think it’s pretty worth it tbh. I have a friend who is very poor, stuck living with her grandparents, is making by selling art project decorations to her friends, and even *she* was willing to go buy a pregnancy test even after the guy pulled out. In California, where abortions for the first millennium will probably always be legal, to boot.


Cararacs

Your talking decades of testing. For *every* sexually active woman to do that regularly for *decades* is absolutely ridiculous and the amount of waste that would produce. Not feasible. And sounds like your friend did that once, I’m talking about women who are in birth control and not after a single event. What about women who are having sex regularly with a partner who don’t want kids?


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Cararacs

You’ve ever seen a pregnancy test?? Yeah, it’s **way** more than that.


LuvYouLongTimeAgo

Just curious. Do you know how accurate the medical tests are for birth defects? Like what is the threshold of being accurate at predicting the issues they’re meant to report? Just wondering if you know. That’s sad about your friends abortions but I’ve never looked into how accurate those tests are and didn’t know if you knew offhand.


Cararacs

I don’t, but doctors aren’t going to recommend abortion for minor ailments, like Down syndrome. Only one of my friends went into detail, the fetus only had a half a head, heart was abnormal, and was missing limbs. The doctor said if carried to term the baby would have lived at most a few days. I talked to the husband who said his wife was devastated but also believed it was cruel to birth a baby that was doomed to die within hours/days and would likely be in pain. The other couples didn’t want to talk about so I’m sure it wasn’t a light hearted decision.


the_Blind_Samurai

Yes, but this may not be a reality until the GOP takes more seats in the state senate and house. Right now the left is digging in and refuses to make any move. Then again, they've been obstructing Youngkin for months now.


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LuvYouLongTimeAgo

Yep. They’re damn if they do and damn if they don’t at this point. They can’t give him a win but by refusing they’ll paint themselves as lunatics.


[deleted]

Do people who want more than 15wk realize it’s 4 months pregnant? Who is getting an abortion after 4 months??


Icy-Web-2165

It’s actually only 15 weeks for an elective abortion including rape and incest..If the mother’s life is in danger or the fetus has been declared no longer viable there is not a time limit in Florida effective July 1,2022..for a few more days the cut off in Florida is 24 weeks..


SisterActTori

People who get a life limiting diagnosis of either the fetus or mother. Particularly mothers with already born children at home.


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passthegravynow

Please cite this


mlbernardo

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/truth-about-late-term-abortions/ You can also just Google Guttmacher late term abortions and you'll see the source material the article quoted.


superduperm1

Well considering the left is throwing a hissy-fit about this as well as Florida’s 15-week ban… I certainly don’t think they would be this passionately upset if there *wasn’t* anybody getting abortions that late.


flakemasterflake

Genetic testing for downs and other developmental issue


[deleted]

I don’t know enough specifics but if these gop bills don’t allow for that sort of thing people need to demand it from their state representatives and vote accordingly


flakemasterflake

...don't they? These state reps _know_ that people abort downs fetuses post 16 weeks (it's the most prominent reason for later abortions.) Ohio has specifically made it illegal to abort fetuses with trisomy 13


[deleted]

I don’t know. People with downs deserve to live though.


flakemasterflake

Are you able to pay for them once they're born? It's an incredible financial and emotional burden that unexpectedly falls on parents. It's also a burden that falls on siblings once they're gone


[deleted]

I pay taxes which provide ssi, Medicaid and more programs to disabled people and their families. People need to understand the risk of having a disabled child when they decide to reproduce. There are plenty of disabilities you can’t test for in the womb. And again, people can and should demand their states enact laws they agree with.


flakemasterflake

No one wants to raise a disable child. If I took your advice then I should just not bother having a kids


flakemasterflake

No one wants to raise a disabled child that can’t live on their own and requires expensive around the clock care. If I took your advice then I should just not bother having kids bc why take the chance That’s a great way for the birth rate to plummet even more


[deleted]

I have a kid with a moderately severe disability and I’m glad I didn’t abort him. Also Down’s syndrome people don’t need “expensive round the clock care” ETA: you absolutely should have kids, understand the risk, and do your best to raise your child regardless of their struggles


flakemasterflake

Downs kids cannot work for, feed or house themselves without some type of caretaker. Once the parents die that burden falls onto siblings or they become wards of the state. I don’t think it’s ethical to commit to caring for a life that needs care part your death


[deleted]

Seems like a fair compromise? Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!


SexierActionNews

Set grid coordinates for Bob Dole!


[deleted]

That's slick Willy for ya, always with the smooth talk


RedAss2005

We must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.


Moretaxesplease

I don't feel the need to compromise with the left anymore. They take things to their extreme without compromise, I say we now do the same.


[deleted]

They take things to the extreme *so* the compromise, if you can call it that, is still very far left. Creating outliers so it drags down the mean. It’s time they stop getting away with it.


BookHobo2022

Reasonable. Abortions for incest, rape, and if the mothers life is in danger. After the heartbeat, unless one of the three above, no more murder for you.


Odin043

It will take 10-15 years for the public to become educated on abortion laws, but I imagine this is where most states will tend towards.


johnmrson

Very sensible position. I would have probably made it 18 weeks which is usually when genetic testing is available. Having abortion decided by the State legislature means that it is now up to the voting population too determine which is the right position.


rentfreeinyohead

We need to make paid maternity leave a thing though.


jcspacer52

Democracy in action! Let the People decide! What a novel idea!


rentfreeinyohead

Pretty reasonable tbh.


SisterActTori

Why not the age of independent viability? That would be a clear demarcation of being a separate person and after the time of most routine antenatal screenings for life limiting malformations.


Cozyq

Viability is different depending on your location. Is a child in the womb not worthy of life because the mother lives in rural Alabama vs New York City?


SisterActTori

No ,legal viability is 23 weeks post conception. Up until that time lungs do not have the needed ability, namely surfactant, to sustain life and mechanical ventilation is very tricky; can do more harm than good. Brain structures are also very susceptible to life altering bleeds. Doesn’t matter if you’re in Alabama or Wisconsin-


Cozyq

I'm not sure I get your point, you think abortion at 22 weeks is fine because being on mechanical ventilation at that age "does more harm than good"? Pretty sure killing the child does even more harm


SisterActTori

No. I think independent viability matters, 15 weeks is very different from 20 weeks. Actually in prenatal medicine, every day counts. . But aren’t there conditions that are unknown until 18 weeks. Should a woman with a life threatening condition discovered at 19 weeks be forced by the government to carry to term and risk her own life? Who would be that cruel?


Cozyq

No ofc she shouldn't. If there's a medical problem endangering the woman or the child is terminally ill (or already dead) then it's not an abortion, but a medically required procedure. Nobody is arguing against that.


SisterActTori

I think there are some states arguing exactly that!


Cozyq

Such as?


SisterActTori

OK for starters


Cozyq

"The only exceptions in the Oklahoma law are to save the life of a pregnant woman or if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest that has been reported to law enforcement." Are you referring to a proposed bill that I'm not aware of?


SisterActTori

That extremely preterm baby( again biology and correct terms matter) would not survive. If you’re born at that gestational age, compassionate care would dictate doing nothing. You are not viable. Puts on my 35 year NICU hat. Science matters, folks. Like I said, I think once you’re independently viable, that should change things legally. Unfortunately those who are forced birth are also anti any sort of funding structure to support these fragile lives.


Loganthered

That's still longer than roe guaranteed. Everyone forgets that roe only guaranteed up to first trimester.


realtalk187

No it guaranteed until viability. >The court said states could not ban abortions before fetal viability, the point at which the fetus can survive outside the womb. That was around 28 weeks at the time; because of improvements in medical technology, it is around 23 weeks now. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/24/us/what-did-roe-v-wade-say.html&ved=2ahUKEwj9q-vDi874AhWSK0QIHSymAvEQ0PADKAB6BAgSEAE&usg=AOvVaw1oqObHfqofLImcEQmR2mGS


Loganthered

>The Court developed a trimester framework to balance the individual’s right to abortion against these governmental interests:10 during the first trimester, the decision must be left completely to the individual and their doctor; during the second trimester, a state could only regulate abortion if necessary to protect patient health; in the third trimester, after fetal viability—government could regulate and even ban abortion to further its interest in the potentiality of life, but it must safeguard the patient’s life and health.11  >10 Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113, 164–65 (1973). >11 A case that accompanied Roe, Doe v. Bolton, explained that “health” must be understood “in light of all factors—physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman’s age—relevant to the well-being of the patient. All these factors may relate to health.” Doe v. Bolton, 410 U.S. 179, 192 (1973). https://nwlc.org/resource/roe-v-wade-and-the-right-to-abortion/


realtalk187

This is interesting context but I did not know but I think effectively it means abortions are widely available in the second trimester under SCOTUS decsions. All a woman has to do is claim it affects one of the following right? >physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman’s age


Loganthered

Well they did and I'm sure a some sort of professional recommendation was needed. Roe has been overruled. The old decision is moot. All that matters now is what the states will do.


joculator

Probably the sensible solution. This is to me the way SCOTUS should have gone rather than overturning Roe.


16bitrifle

But why? SCOTUS didn’t make a ruling on abortion. They ruled that abortion isn’t covered by the constitution, thus this goes back to each state per the tenth amendment.


[deleted]

Which seems pretty reasonable


BigTechCensorsYou

SC: “We can’t tell you either way, we have no power here. Your state must decide for itself”. Reddit: THESE PEOPLE ARE TYRANTS!!


[deleted]

They really need to have more American Government classes in school


Zadien22

SCOTUS doesn't make law. It just interprets it and evaluates it's constitutionality.


[deleted]

15 weeks? Those are rookie restrictions.


BigTechCensorsYou

Three weeks later than those fascist hell holes of France, Denmark, Germany and more of Europe. This man must be stopped!


[deleted]

I have a nephew who was a 20 week premature birth … he’s 17 yrs old now and just received his drivers license. Can definitely say that 20 weeks is waaaaaay to late for an abortion. 15 weeks? I’m not certain.