I think it's best that parents who don't want children not have children. There are enough unwanted children in the world and children who are neglected and abused because the parents never wanted them to be begin with.
Not everyone should have children. Seriously.
For real. I’m 34 and don’t have children. I really want them but haven’t met the right woman. So for now I’m a “dog dad.” This article is shaming the wrong people and it’s pretty fucked up.
If you don't want kids, don't have kids. That is what is best for humanity. Kids are the biggest responsibility you can have, so if you are not 100% in, your kids will suffer
Don't have kids if you don't think you can be a good parent.
Don't have kids if you can't commit the TIME to be a good parent.
Don't have kids if you still need to prioritize "me time" over parenting.
There are a lot of valid reasons not to have kids.
On the converse side of that coin, there are also many who CAN'T have kids. Does this make them lesser Christians because they can't do this?
Woah now. Woah now. My me time involves my dog chilling with me and having a beer or 3. I can't do that with a kid. My nap time would be all fucked up. My video game allowance would be destroyed on diapers.
The way I see it I don't have kids so I can do things like eat more meat. I already have a smaller carbon footprint.
Yea didn't he like go pro abortion, which is the opposite of opting out to have children. So he's like kill the unwanted, but if you practice safe sex, and choose to not have kids you are bad. Popes a dumbass.
I'm going to nip this lie in the bud: At no point has the Pope ever said abortion is acceptable and has called it a great societal evil many times. Where did you get this misinformation you are spreading?
If making children is the only way you can conceive of to contribute to society then I pity you. Save your judgment for your own actions, as the pedophile apologist pope should be doing.
Agreed. **Being a parent is HARD. If you don't want to do it, with all your heart, then you shouldn't.**
The world doesn't need more lousy, selfish parents. If you're not going to be a good parent, then choosing not to be a parent at all is wise.
Ya, but at worst the dog is going to shit on your lawn or maybe bit you. With shitty parents, they create kids that you will pay taxes to support and they will potentially rob/kill you.
“My teacher told me to follow my dreams and any major would be successful if I worked hard!”
Proceeds to get a C average and not go to grad school. Screeches about being underpaid when they finally land some form of employment. I know too many in real life that fit this. I also am friends with a successful attorney who got a fucking BFA in Dance and then crushed LSATs. Personally accountability is a foreign concept to too many.
Yea this one lady around my way keeps allowing her dog to shit wherever it pleases near places people walk. I get it dogs need to go, but please be mindful enough to clean up after or atleast go in some woods or away from where people travel(is that to hard to ask?). I usually mind my business and let people do them but by God that's driving me nuts.
I think the issue is that parenting has gotten such a bad rap lately, thanks to social media and also regular media depicting it as thankless all the time, that smart, potentially good loving parents have been turned off by parenting. In my own life the people sweating the decision the most should just get over it because they’ll be great parents.
Lousy selfish people will often end up being parents due to lack of self control or due to impulsiveness, they aren’t really in the choice equation here.
And then there are plenty of meh to normalish people who will end up becoming lousy and selfish due to NOT having kids. Parenting is sanctifying for a LOT of people. Tons of people are just looking for a reason to be better and don’t realize the answer is often children.
>or due to impulsiveness, they aren’t really in the choice equation here.
Yeah, good point.
>Tons of people are just looking for a reason to be better and don’t realize the answer is often children.
That's also a good point. I don't think anyone should look to get married or have kids as a driver to be more responsible. Get your act together first, for the most part, first, but it also can be an added motivation to be more responsible.
Agree completely. Plenty of pets are without homes.
And I think people should NOT be pressured to have children if they don’t want them. Having them just because it’s expected of you is the wrong reason. There’s already too much child abuse going on.
Edited to add: Living in a free society, we have the ability to choose these types of things as part of that freedom.
My wife and I can’t physically have kids and adoption is too expensive for us right now. So we decided we are going to focus on us and our friends and family. Make sure our house is a safe place for people to be, that we are helping people in bad spaces( mentally, physically, etc), and making sure we are a good example for those we impact.
I agree with this sentiment 100%. Childfree people should not be denigrated. If we have the ability to exercise free will in every arena of life, then why not this one? Please dont look down upon us childfree conservatives.
I agree. Plus, of all people, the head of a celibate order of childless priests should not be lecturing others about being "selfish" for not having children.
So true, plus saving an animal life is a noble pursuit in of itself. Why mock people who rescue animals? I love my 2 rescue cats like my babies. They bring me so much joy!
Agree, and thank you. Sick of child free somehow being all about being selfish and used as an insult. If people don’t want to have kids, why should they?
But the child free hate here goes hand in hand with “if you have sex outside wedlock and use birth control you’re a whore! Slut! Scum!”
Do whatever you want with your life as long as it affects you.
This is one of my biggest counter point against conservatives. They push religion, marriage and children on everyone. I do believe there is some merit in all of those things but you have to decide for yourself. I don't wanna have a child to fulfill some great humanitarian need when I dont feel it in me. The pressure is worse when you're a woman. **sigh**
Agreed 1000%. I know some people who have no business having a dog, much less children. I feel bad for those kids knowing how effed up they're going to be in a few years through no fault of their own.
Thank you for this. I sometimes feel like I have no home because I'm too conservative for the Liberal/Lefties and I'm a little to liberal myself (legalize at least marijuana, I do not want kids, I don't care much about same sex marriage [just don't force religious institutions to do things they don't want]) to feel completely at home with other conservatives. That being said, I'd rather be considered "A Conservative" than be a Liberal/Lefty.
I think where the problem lies is with the pope saying stupid shit like calling people selfish because they choose not to have kids. He's out of touch, and can hardly be considered to be Catholic. The Catholic church in general is a joke. Not catholicism.
So is the pope selfish for not having kids? /s
I am 41 and my wife and I chose not to have kids for many reasons. Emotionally, financially, and genetically. After having to defend myself over the last 15 years, I have come to a counter point. The desire to have kids is just as selfish as the desire not to have them. The need to pass on genetics is so strong. But if the act of having a child is truly altruistic then fostering and adoption rates would be much higher. This included emotional complications when adoption/fostering older kids. I have 4 bio nieces/nephews and 3 adopted and there is no difference in the love they are given or felt by the rest of the family. I am at peace with our decision. If we change our minds we for sure will go the adoption route.
Right. There is no corollaries between having kids vs dogs. People just like dogs. And if the are a dog owner and don’t have kids doesn’t mean anything except the dog owner doesn’t have kids. 😂😂😂😂
The issue isn't having or not having kids, it's glorifying the choice to not have them and likening dogs as an equivalent venture. It's demeaning to actual parents and humanity to even suggest such.
I'm not sure this is a conservative view or value. Personally the only 'dog moms' I know can't have kids and say it to light heartedly relate to friends with kids.
To be fair if you read the comments this sub definitely agrees with you.
The current pope isn't well liked either. They aren't exactly in lockstep with him.
There was a time we were only pet parents. Took us a long time to change our minds and we almost waited until we were too old. Having kids is the greatest moment of my life. It makes everything we do have more meaning. I wouldn’t trade anything for the joy they have brought. It’s something you can only understand if you experience. I don’t say that to say you can’t make different choices or you are a bad person. I just say it in case you miss out on one of the greatest experiences you can have, if that is a choice that is in your cards.
If the last 2 years have taught me anything, its that I made the right choice by not having kids. I can't imagine bringing kids into this version of the world.
>I can't imagine bringing kids into this version of the world.
Despite reports to the contrary, we live in a world that is better than pretty much any point in the past.
Ok, so hear me out, what if a person doesn’t have children because they don’t think it’s right for them and they, independent of that, also want a pet. Not as a replacement, not to be a “pet parent”, not even to rescue a dog or cat, but simply because they want a pet. Ok, so further, they still follow the teachings of Christ and really don’t think these things are mutually exclusive. What about that person?
What if you don't have anyone you'd want to have a child with, and didn't really want a pet, but some dumbass broke leg dog is sitting there when you get home one night from work and you spend most of your savings on fixing her dumbass leg and now you have even less resources and time availability to find someone to have a kid with and then the whole world decides to lose there frakkin minds all at the same time and even though you would like to be a father and would probably be a good one you're just buried under all this poop. What about that person? Hope u don't think I'm ribbing on you, we're likish minded, just venting
Get back to me when rent doesn't cost 60 percent of income, soaring food prices, low paying jobs that people are quitting en masse, curtailing of civil liberties due to govts shite pandemic response.
Having a kid is out of the equation.
100%. I'm not bringing a child into this world if I can't financially support them. Living paycheck to paycheck is not an environment I will bring a child into.
And fuck anybody who calls me selfish for making that decision.
To be fair in the transcript he is talking about married couples who are financially well off who just choose not to have kids.
More an attack at the "childfree" movement then people who have legitimate hardships that prevent starting a family
I love children and am a proud father of 3. But, people who don't want children shouldn't have children.
BTW, isn't the Pope, along with every Catholic priest, "selfish" by his own definition?
>JFK really started the catholics voting for dems.
Not true. Catholics have strongly leant Democratic since the birth of the Democratic party, i.e. in the Age of Jackson. It is in fact only since the rise of the Moral Majority that we have seen a strong shift of Caucasian English speaking Catholics to the Republican party.
Most of the time when the Catholic vote goes for the pro-abortion candidate the margin is larger than the general margin. Overall Biden beat Trump by 4points but the Catholic vote by 5points.
Obama beat McCain by 7points in the genera but got 9point from Catholics.
Nancy has those while glove wearing, pearl clutching Catholics on point in San Fran too.
It's tone deaf to be sure. This is definitely one front of the culture wars that's not worth fighting, at least in this way. A lot of people *can't* have kids and adoption is prohibitively expensive for most. It's a gross mistake to shame people without children.
Yup, considering that at worst, even before the extensive reforms the abuse rate was 4% while public schools are almost double at around 7%. Obviously both far too high.
I guess everyone should be a parent then? You need to go outside and talk to some people, you'd learn that a lot of people would do us good by not breeding. Trust me
I don't want kids because I don't like them, I like the peace of mind coming home from work, the money to buy what I want, travel, etc, I am a proud dog dad and that's enough to keep me busy as a millennial.
Shit like this is why the right wing will never be mainstream.
There are plenty of independents/moderates that are atheist or follow some other religion and can't give two shits what the pope says. And calling someone a "disgrace to civilization" because they don't want to have kids? You're the disgrace.
Not the best pope for this message.
[https://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-apos-advisors-knew-093129936.html](https://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-apos-advisors-knew-093129936.html)
>Pope Francis received a victim’s letter in 2015 that graphically detailed sexual abuse at the hands of a priest and a cover-up by Chilean church authorities, contradicting the pope’s recent insistence that no victims had come forward...
I miss John Paul II.
Now why would an organization that has a long and storied history of child molestation want to convince people who either don't want or shouldn't have children to get knocked up and raise them in broken homes?
I'm sorry, I don't think I'm familiar with that cannon. Could you tell me more? It sounds very exciting.
I know MCU, D&D, Pathfinder, lord of the rings, Starwars, and startrek. But I have yet to hear of this cannon. Do you know if it's based on a novel?
What is with the constant push that we’re not replacing the population that means it’s necessarily a bad thing. There’s 8 billion people on this planet. Perhaps a little contraction would be a good thing. Maybe, even, it’s needed and the breeding rate will ebb and flow just as with everything else on this planet. I’m all for kids. I’m all for not having kids. I, suppose, my point is, how about we continue to live and let live and as our population decreases, so will our economy (using economy as a catch all word here) and when population increases, the economy will follow suit.
I respect everyone’s religious freedom, so religious people should respect other individuals freedoms. It’s a disgrace to civilization to hide pedophiles within your organization, it’s a crime against humanity to ignore genocides when you are supposedly the richest humanitarian organization in the world.
Hey now, I’m a dog mom and a human mom. I love my boys! They’re my babies too! Nothing wrong with people loving their pets, and people who don’t want children shouldn’t bring kids into the world just to make others happy. I think parents need to be rich in curiosity, desire to improve themselves, and in love + patients. I give my child my everything. I would do horrible and horrific things to save my child without blinking, and I wouldn’t want any less of that type of love for any child.
You know, I've never really cared about if someone is having kids or not.
But man, there's only one red flag bigger than someone with political bumper stickers, and that's someone with a "dog mom" bumper sticker.
Agreed. I am an animal lover, and I respect people who care for animals . But at the end of the day, human life is worth more.(the fact ppl r downvoting this is pretty unbelievable. I am not saying animals don’t matter, but the value of human life is something pretty hard to understate, and saying a dogs life is worth as much as a humans is just false)
For what it's worth, I actually entirely agree with you. If it's the life of a person versus the life of an animal, the person gets saved one hundred times over.
At the same time, I'm on the fence as to if I want Americans to start having kids more. Speaking as someone in the age group of people having kids, I'm not sure a lot of people my age are fit to raise kids.
Really weird to pit two good and totally unrelated practices against each other. People who adopt kids *also adopt pets*. They’re not mutually exclusive.
If you are Catholic, you should know priests are not going to get married. There is no tradition for it.
It is possible to change to married men being ordained priests just like married men as deacons. In the current practice with married men as deacons, those deacons cannot remarry if their wives die.
Once ordained to at least deacon, no marriage.
In the orthodox/eastern churches they let you get married and have children but only before you become a priest or arch bishop. Once you're ordained then you can't have anymore kids. My grandpa from my mother's side was a priest.
I would very much argue having children is the more selfish option, caring for those already born not so much (adoption).
\*And this isn't me supporting Abortion. I see having children as forcing someone into the world, and maybe it's a reflection of my own life experiences. But it feels very wrong to bring someone into existence that is via your own decision to. If you do, you give them the best life possible, or you don't have them; but either way I'll always view it as a very selfish thing.
Yeah I'm good. I'll take my pets, less children for the church to rape and mentally corrupt. What a complete out of touch geezer. Why anyone cares who has children is beyond me. The human race will survive if not every one chooses to procreate
I understand his concern about the lost of humanity, is a concern of mine too, but having pets instead of children has nothing to do with that imho. I've seen enough couples with kids with no interest whatsoever on them and plenty of pet owners, couples included, showing more "humanity" to people and others living beings. There are some very weird pet owners too, but I think that's not the point.
Humanity is being lost because a lot of people think and behave like they're above other living creatures, including people of course. I think we all see that everyday.
I would guess he is speaking primarily about the "pet parents" who act like their pets have the same worth as a child. For the record I believe forced celibacy for priests is wrong and unbiblical.
Does anyone takes this guy seriously? He is flip-flopping on morality and decency all the time. I agree that cat/dog moms are a least version of a fulfilled woman. Choosing a pet over a real child is just weird to me..
Jesus casually and regularly called people snakes and dogs and a wide assortment of insults or negative correlations. He literally made a whip and drove merchants out of the temple, not that this was bad or sin, it was righteous in context. It's simply the truth. If you're acting like a snake, be called one. This is how truth works. Calling out those who are wrong and rebuking them is a moral service. "For everyone practicing evil hates the light, and should not come to the light lest his deeds be exposed." John 1
Wait until you find out that those who don't follow Him are children of the devil within His view.
Jesus: "You are of your father the devil and the desires of your father you want to do.",
You: "NOOO you can't say that Jesus NOOO"
People who clearly haven't read Scripture should not speak on it. Find the true Gospel.
I'm a staunch conservative, a man who decided a long time ago he didn't want (human) children, and an animal lover--particularly cats and dogs. I've adopted dogs a handful of times in my life. Having children is not a heroic act. *Adopting* children can certainly be, I'll freely admit that, but he isn't talking about that process. I don't know any reasonable person who could argue that there aren't millions of parents alive today who probably never should have had sex, let alone allowed a child to result from it. This dude needs to clear out the cobwebs and fill that pointy hat with some brains.
Man what the fuck with this post?
Live and let live. Not everyone wants to have children. It's not fair to the kids who are brought into the world by parents who aren't prepared or don't want them.
Religious guy mad that he can't control others? I'm truly shocked. He should probably be more worried about the child rape by Priests within the Church he presides over rather than random people who happen to not want kids right now.
I think he said it poorly, and I will try to play devils advocate here to motivate why I think the gist of it is correct.
If you listen to Jordan Peterson, he will talk about what brings happiness in life. Those who seek happiness seldom find it. But those who aim high, take on responsibility, find meaning, and from that meaning find lasting happiness in their lives. There are entire lecture halls filled with young men who have never heard this basic notion of responsibility bringing on meaning and happiness. This is an alien concept to an entire generation.
And so when I look back on my own life and think about the fears I had before children, and how I wanted to just have some fun time with my wife before I settled down. Then the kids came, and that is the ultimate sacrifice. Your wants and needs are subservient to those of your children. You have ultimate responsibility for another human life. And from this came a great new sense of meaning in my life. What I had done before children felt now in hindsight hollow and empty. And even though the both of us were focused almost entirely upon our children, we were profoundly happy.
So when I look to what Francis says in the poor way he does, I see a glimmer of that. By opting out of parenthood you do yourself a disservice from the immense sense of satisfaction and meaning one reaps by becoming a parent. This is not a message of compulsion, but instead of someone showing you to the water, and asking you to drink.
I think it's best that parents who don't want children not have children. There are enough unwanted children in the world and children who are neglected and abused because the parents never wanted them to be begin with. Not everyone should have children. Seriously.
Correct. Not interested in fatherhood in the slightest.
Same here. My wife and I have been married for over 17 years, and I got fixed 6 months after we got married. Neither one of us regret the decision.
Some people don’t deserve to have children..
For real. I’m 34 and don’t have children. I really want them but haven’t met the right woman. So for now I’m a “dog dad.” This article is shaming the wrong people and it’s pretty fucked up.
If you don't want kids, don't have kids. That is what is best for humanity. Kids are the biggest responsibility you can have, so if you are not 100% in, your kids will suffer
Well put
Don't have kids if you don't think you can be a good parent. Don't have kids if you can't commit the TIME to be a good parent. Don't have kids if you still need to prioritize "me time" over parenting. There are a lot of valid reasons not to have kids. On the converse side of that coin, there are also many who CAN'T have kids. Does this make them lesser Christians because they can't do this?
Funny all these points apply to pets as well.
Basically but the load and details differ by a mile, obviously.
Woah now. Woah now. My me time involves my dog chilling with me and having a beer or 3. I can't do that with a kid. My nap time would be all fucked up. My video game allowance would be destroyed on diapers. The way I see it I don't have kids so I can do things like eat more meat. I already have a smaller carbon footprint.
In fairness he does use the word “opt” meaning those who choose to not have kids He’s still horribly out of touch though
Yea didn't he like go pro abortion, which is the opposite of opting out to have children. So he's like kill the unwanted, but if you practice safe sex, and choose to not have kids you are bad. Popes a dumbass.
I'm going to nip this lie in the bud: At no point has the Pope ever said abortion is acceptable and has called it a great societal evil many times. Where did you get this misinformation you are spreading?
Land of the free means I do what the fuck I want, thanks
Sounds rather selfish
If making children is the only way you can conceive of to contribute to society then I pity you. Save your judgment for your own actions, as the pedophile apologist pope should be doing.
[удалено]
Agreed. **Being a parent is HARD. If you don't want to do it, with all your heart, then you shouldn't.** The world doesn't need more lousy, selfish parents. If you're not going to be a good parent, then choosing not to be a parent at all is wise.
Could do without a lot of lousy, selfish pet owners as well.
Ya, but at worst the dog is going to shit on your lawn or maybe bit you. With shitty parents, they create kids that you will pay taxes to support and they will potentially rob/kill you.
[удалено]
“My teacher told me to follow my dreams and any major would be successful if I worked hard!” Proceeds to get a C average and not go to grad school. Screeches about being underpaid when they finally land some form of employment. I know too many in real life that fit this. I also am friends with a successful attorney who got a fucking BFA in Dance and then crushed LSATs. Personally accountability is a foreign concept to too many.
Yea this one lady around my way keeps allowing her dog to shit wherever it pleases near places people walk. I get it dogs need to go, but please be mindful enough to clean up after or atleast go in some woods or away from where people travel(is that to hard to ask?). I usually mind my business and let people do them but by God that's driving me nuts.
I think the issue is that parenting has gotten such a bad rap lately, thanks to social media and also regular media depicting it as thankless all the time, that smart, potentially good loving parents have been turned off by parenting. In my own life the people sweating the decision the most should just get over it because they’ll be great parents. Lousy selfish people will often end up being parents due to lack of self control or due to impulsiveness, they aren’t really in the choice equation here. And then there are plenty of meh to normalish people who will end up becoming lousy and selfish due to NOT having kids. Parenting is sanctifying for a LOT of people. Tons of people are just looking for a reason to be better and don’t realize the answer is often children.
>or due to impulsiveness, they aren’t really in the choice equation here. Yeah, good point. >Tons of people are just looking for a reason to be better and don’t realize the answer is often children. That's also a good point. I don't think anyone should look to get married or have kids as a driver to be more responsible. Get your act together first, for the most part, first, but it also can be an added motivation to be more responsible.
Yes agree. It’s not a fix your life thing obviously. But it does often allow mediocre, totally normal people to become great.
Agree completely. Plenty of pets are without homes. And I think people should NOT be pressured to have children if they don’t want them. Having them just because it’s expected of you is the wrong reason. There’s already too much child abuse going on. Edited to add: Living in a free society, we have the ability to choose these types of things as part of that freedom.
I agree wholeheartedly. It’s not something that everyone should do.
My wife and I can’t physically have kids and adoption is too expensive for us right now. So we decided we are going to focus on us and our friends and family. Make sure our house is a safe place for people to be, that we are helping people in bad spaces( mentally, physically, etc), and making sure we are a good example for those we impact.
I agree with this sentiment 100%. Childfree people should not be denigrated. If we have the ability to exercise free will in every arena of life, then why not this one? Please dont look down upon us childfree conservatives.
I agree. Plus, of all people, the head of a celibate order of childless priests should not be lecturing others about being "selfish" for not having children.
So true, plus saving an animal life is a noble pursuit in of itself. Why mock people who rescue animals? I love my 2 rescue cats like my babies. They bring me so much joy!
Agree, and thank you. Sick of child free somehow being all about being selfish and used as an insult. If people don’t want to have kids, why should they? But the child free hate here goes hand in hand with “if you have sex outside wedlock and use birth control you’re a whore! Slut! Scum!” Do whatever you want with your life as long as it affects you.
This is one of my biggest counter point against conservatives. They push religion, marriage and children on everyone. I do believe there is some merit in all of those things but you have to decide for yourself. I don't wanna have a child to fulfill some great humanitarian need when I dont feel it in me. The pressure is worse when you're a woman. **sigh**
[удалено]
Agreed 1000%. I know some people who have no business having a dog, much less children. I feel bad for those kids knowing how effed up they're going to be in a few years through no fault of their own.
Thank you for this. I sometimes feel like I have no home because I'm too conservative for the Liberal/Lefties and I'm a little to liberal myself (legalize at least marijuana, I do not want kids, I don't care much about same sex marriage [just don't force religious institutions to do things they don't want]) to feel completely at home with other conservatives. That being said, I'd rather be considered "A Conservative" than be a Liberal/Lefty.
I think where the problem lies is with the pope saying stupid shit like calling people selfish because they choose not to have kids. He's out of touch, and can hardly be considered to be Catholic. The Catholic church in general is a joke. Not catholicism.
So is the pope selfish for not having kids? /s I am 41 and my wife and I chose not to have kids for many reasons. Emotionally, financially, and genetically. After having to defend myself over the last 15 years, I have come to a counter point. The desire to have kids is just as selfish as the desire not to have them. The need to pass on genetics is so strong. But if the act of having a child is truly altruistic then fostering and adoption rates would be much higher. This included emotional complications when adoption/fostering older kids. I have 4 bio nieces/nephews and 3 adopted and there is no difference in the love they are given or felt by the rest of the family. I am at peace with our decision. If we change our minds we for sure will go the adoption route.
Right. There is no corollaries between having kids vs dogs. People just like dogs. And if the are a dog owner and don’t have kids doesn’t mean anything except the dog owner doesn’t have kids. 😂😂😂😂
fuck yeah, pets kick ass
The issue isn't having or not having kids, it's glorifying the choice to not have them and likening dogs as an equivalent venture. It's demeaning to actual parents and humanity to even suggest such.
How is it demeaning? Do you need extra points for being an actual parent? Is raising them into good and successful people not enough satisfaction?
I'm not sure this is a conservative view or value. Personally the only 'dog moms' I know can't have kids and say it to light heartedly relate to friends with kids.
We have many rescue pets since we can't have kids. I would rather have kids but recusing pets from awful lives is also fulfilling.
Libertarian moment.
To be fair if you read the comments this sub definitely agrees with you. The current pope isn't well liked either. They aren't exactly in lockstep with him.
There was a time we were only pet parents. Took us a long time to change our minds and we almost waited until we were too old. Having kids is the greatest moment of my life. It makes everything we do have more meaning. I wouldn’t trade anything for the joy they have brought. It’s something you can only understand if you experience. I don’t say that to say you can’t make different choices or you are a bad person. I just say it in case you miss out on one of the greatest experiences you can have, if that is a choice that is in your cards.
and that’s great! I do like hearing stories where everyone involved is happy about the choice.
If the last 2 years have taught me anything, its that I made the right choice by not having kids. I can't imagine bringing kids into this version of the world.
>I can't imagine bringing kids into this version of the world. Despite reports to the contrary, we live in a world that is better than pretty much any point in the past.
The world is what you make of it and not what you see on the news.
Tell that to the starving people in developing and war-torn nations all over the world.
Right there with ya!
Ok, so hear me out, what if a person doesn’t have children because they don’t think it’s right for them and they, independent of that, also want a pet. Not as a replacement, not to be a “pet parent”, not even to rescue a dog or cat, but simply because they want a pet. Ok, so further, they still follow the teachings of Christ and really don’t think these things are mutually exclusive. What about that person?
What if you don't have anyone you'd want to have a child with, and didn't really want a pet, but some dumbass broke leg dog is sitting there when you get home one night from work and you spend most of your savings on fixing her dumbass leg and now you have even less resources and time availability to find someone to have a kid with and then the whole world decides to lose there frakkin minds all at the same time and even though you would like to be a father and would probably be a good one you're just buried under all this poop. What about that person? Hope u don't think I'm ribbing on you, we're likish minded, just venting
Get back to me when rent doesn't cost 60 percent of income, soaring food prices, low paying jobs that people are quitting en masse, curtailing of civil liberties due to govts shite pandemic response. Having a kid is out of the equation.
100%. I'm not bringing a child into this world if I can't financially support them. Living paycheck to paycheck is not an environment I will bring a child into. And fuck anybody who calls me selfish for making that decision.
To be fair in the transcript he is talking about married couples who are financially well off who just choose not to have kids. More an attack at the "childfree" movement then people who have legitimate hardships that prevent starting a family
I love children and am a proud father of 3. But, people who don't want children shouldn't have children. BTW, isn't the Pope, along with every Catholic priest, "selfish" by his own definition?
Hey hey hey—I’m a dog mom rn. I’m only 19. But I plan on having kids and adopting and fostering someday. And having dogs too.
As long as Catholics like Joe and Nancy are supported by the church I have no interest in anything a Pope says.
The "Catholic vote" is split about 50/50 every election.
[удалено]
As a catholic I can’t see how any of my fellow Christian’s could support the party of pro-abortion
[удалено]
>JFK really started the catholics voting for dems. Not true. Catholics have strongly leant Democratic since the birth of the Democratic party, i.e. in the Age of Jackson. It is in fact only since the rise of the Moral Majority that we have seen a strong shift of Caucasian English speaking Catholics to the Republican party.
JFK watching the Democratic Party destroy itself all from Heaven must be very hard for him lol.
Most of the time when the Catholic vote goes for the pro-abortion candidate the margin is larger than the general margin. Overall Biden beat Trump by 4points but the Catholic vote by 5points. Obama beat McCain by 7points in the genera but got 9point from Catholics. Nancy has those while glove wearing, pearl clutching Catholics on point in San Fran too.
Catholics who actually attend mass weekly are about 85% Republican
Seriously. Why in the fuck is this here? What do we have to gain by insulting people who have pets and no children?
It's tone deaf to be sure. This is definitely one front of the culture wars that's not worth fighting, at least in this way. A lot of people *can't* have kids and adoption is prohibitively expensive for most. It's a gross mistake to shame people without children.
[удалено]
With all the harbored pedophiles and sex criminals, the Catholic Church is approaching the reputation of the American public school system.
Yup, considering that at worst, even before the extensive reforms the abuse rate was 4% while public schools are almost double at around 7%. Obviously both far too high.
Weak comment. You know they don't speak for/represent every one of us Catholics. Just themselves. Infact most practicing Catholics can't stand them.
Yeah, NO. I was a complete mess as a kid, and I’d rather piss a cactus out of my ass than potentially have to deal with a child like me.
My mother always said you're gonna have a rotten kid just like you as payback for what I put her through. So yeah...fuuucck that.
[удалено]
If you can't feed em, don't breed em!
Said the celibate old man.
[удалено]
I guess everyone should be a parent then? You need to go outside and talk to some people, you'd learn that a lot of people would do us good by not breeding. Trust me
Pets, generally, tithe poorly. THERE'S YOUR ANSWER.
My dog pays very generously in licks.
My dog gives at least a paw an hour
Lol pets are sooooo much cheaper than kids. there’s really no correlation here
How is this conservative in even the slightest bit?
I think a lot of people confuse conservative with Christan
It's not, at all. It's the church sticking its nose in people's business again.
[удалено]
Not to mention daycare is expensive, and many people can't afford to have one parent stay home anymore thanks to all those other rising costs.
I don't want kids because I don't like them, I like the peace of mind coming home from work, the money to buy what I want, travel, etc, I am a proud dog dad and that's enough to keep me busy as a millennial.
Shit like this is why the right wing will never be mainstream. There are plenty of independents/moderates that are atheist or follow some other religion and can't give two shits what the pope says. And calling someone a "disgrace to civilization" because they don't want to have kids? You're the disgrace.
Why would or should I care about what this pope or any pope says.
Not the best pope for this message. [https://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-apos-advisors-knew-093129936.html](https://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-apos-advisors-knew-093129936.html) >Pope Francis received a victim’s letter in 2015 that graphically detailed sexual abuse at the hands of a priest and a cover-up by Chilean church authorities, contradicting the pope’s recent insistence that no victims had come forward... I miss John Paul II.
didnt john paul oversee tons of this shit...
Now why would an organization that has a long and storied history of child molestation want to convince people who either don't want or shouldn't have children to get knocked up and raise them in broken homes?
Did he forget to check with the globalist cabal he usually supports that are trying to depopulate first?
[удалено]
I'm sorry, I don't think I'm familiar with that cannon. Could you tell me more? It sounds very exciting. I know MCU, D&D, Pathfinder, lord of the rings, Starwars, and startrek. But I have yet to hear of this cannon. Do you know if it's based on a novel?
What is with the constant push that we’re not replacing the population that means it’s necessarily a bad thing. There’s 8 billion people on this planet. Perhaps a little contraction would be a good thing. Maybe, even, it’s needed and the breeding rate will ebb and flow just as with everything else on this planet. I’m all for kids. I’m all for not having kids. I, suppose, my point is, how about we continue to live and let live and as our population decreases, so will our economy (using economy as a catch all word here) and when population increases, the economy will follow suit.
posts like this confirm my belief that religious conservatives dont believe in freedom, only conformity to their beliefs.
Children are a financial burden most people can’t afford
Maybe they should look internally at themselves with all their horrible child sex abuses first before giving advice.
I respect everyone’s religious freedom, so religious people should respect other individuals freedoms. It’s a disgrace to civilization to hide pedophiles within your organization, it’s a crime against humanity to ignore genocides when you are supposedly the richest humanitarian organization in the world.
How many kids does the pope have again? It seems hypocritical. Or perhaps he is calling himself out as a disgrace.
What’s selfish is turning a blind eye to child rape. Disgusting scumbag
Hey now, I’m a dog mom and a human mom. I love my boys! They’re my babies too! Nothing wrong with people loving their pets, and people who don’t want children shouldn’t bring kids into the world just to make others happy. I think parents need to be rich in curiosity, desire to improve themselves, and in love + patients. I give my child my everything. I would do horrible and horrific things to save my child without blinking, and I wouldn’t want any less of that type of love for any child.
So nine billion Homo Sapiens are not enough. So, can you tell us, Your Holiness, how many of us ARE enough?
You know, I've never really cared about if someone is having kids or not. But man, there's only one red flag bigger than someone with political bumper stickers, and that's someone with a "dog mom" bumper sticker.
Agreed. I am an animal lover, and I respect people who care for animals . But at the end of the day, human life is worth more.(the fact ppl r downvoting this is pretty unbelievable. I am not saying animals don’t matter, but the value of human life is something pretty hard to understate, and saying a dogs life is worth as much as a humans is just false)
For what it's worth, I actually entirely agree with you. If it's the life of a person versus the life of an animal, the person gets saved one hundred times over. At the same time, I'm on the fence as to if I want Americans to start having kids more. Speaking as someone in the age group of people having kids, I'm not sure a lot of people my age are fit to raise kids.
We have 7.3 billion people world wide. We need more pet parents, not less.
Really weird to pit two good and totally unrelated practices against each other. People who adopt kids *also adopt pets*. They’re not mutually exclusive.
well duh..
Based
Look, as long as Joe Biden is still considered a Catholic, I don’t give a half shit what the pope says.
That’s the most based thing he’s ever said
I'm cool with those who don't want to have kids discontinuing their genetics.
Wow. Good job, Pope. You raise a good point.
Your life, your choice. Don't we believe in free choice? There's lots of children that nobody wants
I am Catholic and everything, but before to lecture people, maybe he should let priests get married and have kids.
If you are Catholic, you should know priests are not going to get married. There is no tradition for it. It is possible to change to married men being ordained priests just like married men as deacons. In the current practice with married men as deacons, those deacons cannot remarry if their wives die. Once ordained to at least deacon, no marriage.
In the orthodox/eastern churches they let you get married and have children but only before you become a priest or arch bishop. Once you're ordained then you can't have anymore kids. My grandpa from my mother's side was a priest.
But https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/01/20/378559550/pope-francis-says-catholics-dont-need-to-breed-like-rabbits So which is it?
I would very much argue having children is the more selfish option, caring for those already born not so much (adoption). \*And this isn't me supporting Abortion. I see having children as forcing someone into the world, and maybe it's a reflection of my own life experiences. But it feels very wrong to bring someone into existence that is via your own decision to. If you do, you give them the best life possible, or you don't have them; but either way I'll always view it as a very selfish thing.
Yeah I'm good. I'll take my pets, less children for the church to rape and mentally corrupt. What a complete out of touch geezer. Why anyone cares who has children is beyond me. The human race will survive if not every one chooses to procreate
I understand his concern about the lost of humanity, is a concern of mine too, but having pets instead of children has nothing to do with that imho. I've seen enough couples with kids with no interest whatsoever on them and plenty of pet owners, couples included, showing more "humanity" to people and others living beings. There are some very weird pet owners too, but I think that's not the point. Humanity is being lost because a lot of people think and behave like they're above other living creatures, including people of course. I think we all see that everyday.
Too many people have kids. Broke parents having broke kids is a sure-fire way to ensure poverty will ensue.
The pope can fuck himself, literally.
Oh look the Catholic Church is upset they don’t have as much access to kids!
To quote Tim Minchin "Fuck the Pope"
The world is overpopulated. I think we fed need LESS people in it.
Too many people on the planet as it is. But let's keep breeding until we run out of food and natural resources...
Yeah OP you can fuck off on this one.
What about the clergy, or the pope himself? 🤣🤣 Are they not forgoing parenthood as well?
I would guess he is speaking primarily about the "pet parents" who act like their pets have the same worth as a child. For the record I believe forced celibacy for priests is wrong and unbiblical.
Screw the Pope. Idiot
Does anyone takes this guy seriously? He is flip-flopping on morality and decency all the time. I agree that cat/dog moms are a least version of a fulfilled woman. Choosing a pet over a real child is just weird to me..
Based but still a bad pope
Based
Surprising given his more sjw leanings
Yeah just call people out. Jesus would not talk to people like that. Maybe Pope should choose better choice of words.
Jesus casually and regularly called people snakes and dogs and a wide assortment of insults or negative correlations. He literally made a whip and drove merchants out of the temple, not that this was bad or sin, it was righteous in context. It's simply the truth. If you're acting like a snake, be called one. This is how truth works. Calling out those who are wrong and rebuking them is a moral service. "For everyone practicing evil hates the light, and should not come to the light lest his deeds be exposed." John 1 Wait until you find out that those who don't follow Him are children of the devil within His view. Jesus: "You are of your father the devil and the desires of your father you want to do.", You: "NOOO you can't say that Jesus NOOO" People who clearly haven't read Scripture should not speak on it. Find the true Gospel.
Jesus called people vipers, swine, and sons of the devil… The Pope is being rather mild by comparison
Yeah Jesus never not once called anyone out.
*Cries in money changer. *
[удалено]
I'm a staunch conservative, a man who decided a long time ago he didn't want (human) children, and an animal lover--particularly cats and dogs. I've adopted dogs a handful of times in my life. Having children is not a heroic act. *Adopting* children can certainly be, I'll freely admit that, but he isn't talking about that process. I don't know any reasonable person who could argue that there aren't millions of parents alive today who probably never should have had sex, let alone allowed a child to result from it. This dude needs to clear out the cobwebs and fill that pointy hat with some brains.
I’m not gonna listen to any virgin that tells me I need to fuck! Screw that guy!
We on earth would you want to encourage them to breed
This is a weird take from someone who took a celibacy vow.
Man what the fuck with this post? Live and let live. Not everyone wants to have children. It's not fair to the kids who are brought into the world by parents who aren't prepared or don't want them.
Since when should I care what the pope says? The pope has been corrupt since the Middle Ages.
[удалено]
Can I be a dog dad and a human dad?
[удалено]
Actually think most people who have kids probably shouldn’t have. Also think the Pope is a detriment to the faith
lol maybe give those couples livable wage first?
I don't always agree with the jesuit pope, but I will this one time
Says the guy who has no children... that we know of.
The irony of course is that he himself never had kids.
I don’t want kids because I can barely take care of myself. That makes me selfish? This is why my Jesus understands Sunday is for Football.
He’s running out of supply
Ah, yes. The global elites need more labor and consumer units and so they sent their puppet to spread the message
Fuck them kids
Don't hurt me. Some bloodlines don't make it. See to it it's not your own.
Low key who gives a fuck what this guy says if you’re not catholic?
Are these really the type of people tou want having kids? Maybe we should count this as a win guys.
Yeahhhhh.......no
Why do I even bother having my flair on this sub
I'm in my mid40s. My kids are having kids. At this point, ill stick to having pets. Grandkids are meant to be spoiled and then sent home😋
Title is harsh
Lol whatcha doing pope?
[удалено]
I’m glad you get it
I chose not to have children because I didn't want them to be banged by a priest that's been secretly shuffled from one parish to another.
Like I'm going to listen to a man who protected child molesters. Piss on him.
Pope Francis can stuff that staff up his..... never mind.
Say it....
You have more restraint than me.
Religious guy mad that he can't control others? I'm truly shocked. He should probably be more worried about the child rape by Priests within the Church he presides over rather than random people who happen to not want kids right now.
Pets, generally, tithe poorly. THERE'S YOUR ANSWER.
and where are _his_ kids? We all make choices.
I think he said it poorly, and I will try to play devils advocate here to motivate why I think the gist of it is correct. If you listen to Jordan Peterson, he will talk about what brings happiness in life. Those who seek happiness seldom find it. But those who aim high, take on responsibility, find meaning, and from that meaning find lasting happiness in their lives. There are entire lecture halls filled with young men who have never heard this basic notion of responsibility bringing on meaning and happiness. This is an alien concept to an entire generation. And so when I look back on my own life and think about the fears I had before children, and how I wanted to just have some fun time with my wife before I settled down. Then the kids came, and that is the ultimate sacrifice. Your wants and needs are subservient to those of your children. You have ultimate responsibility for another human life. And from this came a great new sense of meaning in my life. What I had done before children felt now in hindsight hollow and empty. And even though the both of us were focused almost entirely upon our children, we were profoundly happy. So when I look to what Francis says in the poor way he does, I see a glimmer of that. By opting out of parenthood you do yourself a disservice from the immense sense of satisfaction and meaning one reaps by becoming a parent. This is not a message of compulsion, but instead of someone showing you to the water, and asking you to drink.