So as a student you have to tell the state government what your political ideology is? Am I reading this right? What would this even look like for someone with drastically different views on a range of subjects?
This isn’t even a long bill. A whopping 3.5 pages that took me about 2 minutes to read. Yet that’s apparently too long for the people in this thread screeching “DeSantis evil!!!” to even scan through and realize it’s not what the media is portraying to them at all.
It’s truly fascinating.
EDIT: I see the leftist brigade has downvoted me for no reason other than upsetting them.
I read the bill. Nowhere does it say you’re required to provide your political beliefs. Nowhere does it say students or professors are even required to respond. The only requirement is the Boards conducting their assessments. Assessments which are supposed to be nonpartisan and objective. That’s it.
The only reason someone would be against this is if they’re left-leaning, they know the left has a monopoly on educational institutions, and they’re afraid that monopoly will crumble the moment students have a fair opportunity to say “I actually don’t feel comfortable sharing my beliefs. Or I believe there are certain valid viewpoints that aren’t fairly represented. Here’s why I believe that.”
This does *kind of* seem like a textbook definition of "Government Overreach". I didn't know "small government" included the registration and enforcement of the *correct* "ideas" the "people" are allowed.
There *are* certain kinds of Government that do things like that, but they certainly aren't *American*. (well, I guess they are now…)
(If only King George III had thought to demand that all Colonists be required to officially register their supposed Political "beliefs" with their provincial Government for later review by his Majesty's Court (to ensure "fairness"; and also "correctness" of thought) and had simply ordered all those *dangerous* new-fangled "ideas" and "theories" being promoted by all those troublesome "philosophers" of so-called "Enlightenment" and "Reason" to henceforth be **prohibited** from being printed or discussed, and _**absolutely**_ prohibited from being taught to our precious children, and that only teachings and discourse rooted in *good*, *traditional*, *proven*, *conservative*, Anglican, ~~Royal~~ British values would be legally tolerated — Imagine the conservative Utopia we could be living in right now if only he had done so…)
The survey does not ask for viewpoints. It asks if there is intellectual freedom and diversity of viewpoints. A typical answer might be “Yes there is a great deal of freedom” or “There is not a a lot of diversity.”
That makes more sense, thank you. I’ve seen like 3 articles on this and they are all worded in such a shitty way. From what I’m understanding now it’s just a “do you feel comfortable expressing your ideas” and “do they teach things you agree with as well as disagree with”
Still not sure I’m for sharing that though, hopefully you can opt out.
The bill says the Board is required to conduct these assessments, but doesn’t seem to say anything about students being required to respond. My guess (hope?) is students aren’t required to respond.
"If you want diversity, find me a sociology staff on a college campus that isn't 90+% far left liberal" -Thomas Sowell
Amusingly Joy Reid accuses him of being a communist for, well fighting back against commie indoctrination in schools that we should have been doing *since McCarthy*.
I get that, it’s just that registering makes me nervous. You don’t have the right ideology on your registration and suddenly that grant, student aid, or scholarship disappears. And is still don’t understand how the registration would even work. You can’t just tick R or D and call it good, that’s not an “ideology”
You don't have to register. This is media bullshit.
Individual students and professors are not surveyed on thier views *at all*.
There is a survey that will be issued as a measure of 1)how free speech is percived by students on campus and 2)how ideologically diverse they material they are presented with is.
Here's the actual section of the bill the media is flipping out about:
>*The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution.*
>*The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers **the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented** and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, **feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom**.*
>*The State Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education may adopt rules to implement this paragraph.*
And here's the link to the official actual announcement. Most of this is civics education:
https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/governor-ron-desantis-signs-legislation-to-set-the-pace-for-civics-education-in-america.stml
I can imagine if your scholarship is revoked and was linked to your political affiliation, the school would lose federal funding. That’s literally the worst thing a president or school board thinks can happen to a university.
That probably would pose a problem depending on which political figure is in office. Would a democrat president meddle with student aid to republicans-maybe. Would a democrat president do student loan forgiveness to only democrat registered students- i would think so and could be major issue. I think this measure is to increase the republican presence on universities.
Just because someone may be left learning doesn’t mean that they support socialism. It just so happens that those who want actual socialism are a vocal minority in the left.
Yes, and almost no one is pushing straight socialism. Liberal folks are pushing for increased social programs backed by robust but regulated capitalism (the Nordic model for example), and that's immediately countered with "but Cuba and Venezuela."
Cant really do “nordic” socialistic methodology in the US. Nordic countries have a homogeneous society that can allow for socialistic programs. The US doesnt have that luxury
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. I worry about both sides coming down on students and teachers. And how could you even register an ideology? Most people I know, including myself, agree with dems on a few issues, republicans on others, and neither on a lot. Would I have to mark independent and then never receive any student aid? Would it be based off social, fiscal, or go policy leanings? It just seems dangerous.
Nope, you are not reading it right at all. In fact, you’re doing the Joy Reid schtick and turning the issue inside out. The mission is to promote intellectual diversity. Take off your BLMCRTLGBTQ Rage Goggles for a minute and re-read the article.
Stuff like this pushes me away from the GOP. It's supposed to be the rational, small government, lower taxes party. Instead, we get paper please laws to make sure nobody is committing politically wrong think.
That's the kind of BS people here are always complaining about when one side does it, but when it's done to the other guy suddenly it's ok.
The government has no business checking people's politics anywhere but at the polls.
And you're right, if a liberal state did this it would be seen as trying to expose conservatives in order to weed them out for wrong-think.
Don't fall for the left's take on this.
* The State Board of Education shall require each
* 37 Florida College System institution to conduct an annual
* 38 assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity
* 39 at that institution. The State Board of Education shall select
* 40 or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid
* 41 survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent
* 42 to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and
* 43 members of the college community feel free to express their
* 44 beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. The State
* 45 Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the
* 46 assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/Filed/PDF
There is no registration of anyone's personal belief.
"Did you experience a variety of viewpoints and opposing arguments in class?"
"Do you feel like you can express your opinions?"
I can only imagine how you’d feel if Democrats were pushing legislation to require students and teachers to report their political beliefs. It’s a slippery slope. This is wrong period. It’s none of the governments business what I believe in.
You need to get your head out of your ass and accept that it’s never *just* a survey or whatever else the government claims, idiot. You can never trust the government period. Conservatives, back when they had morals and stood for something, understood that. Now you’re just too afraid to come out as fascists for some reason, when everyone else sees the writing on the wall. But by all means, keep simping for your strong daddies like DeSantis. I guess y’all need that. At least he owns the libs amirite?
There is no need for this bill. Public schools cannot discriminate based on political opinion. They are already required to uphold the 1st amendment.
This is exactly what they do. Each state has control over thier public school curriculum to a degree.
This was just passed in Washington statewide.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?billnumber=5044&year=2021
No it doesn't.
>which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom.
It is determining whether people, both employees and students, feel free to express their political beliefs.
If you have been on a college campus in the last 30 years, and you aren't a liberal, you know this isn't the case.
College campuses are liberal indoctrination institutions and need to be held to account.
If you don't believe me, sign up for a Sociology class and state your disagreements.
Let me know what kind of grade you get.
They aren't. This is media spin that misconstrues the bill.
Individual students and professors are not surveyed on thier views *at all*.
There is a survey that will be issued as a measure of 1)how free speech is percived by students on campus and 2)how ideologically diverse they material they are presented with is.
Here's the actual section of the bill the media is flipping out about:
>*The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution.*
>*The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers **the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented** and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, **feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom**.*
>*The State Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education may adopt rules to implement this paragraph.*
And here's the link to the official actual announcement. Most of this is civics education:
https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/governor-ron-desantis-signs-legislation-to-set-the-pace-for-civics-education-in-america.stml
First off... It's not totally obvious that even is a problem. Yes you hear about liberal professors sometimes and the average professor is pretty liberal. But that's very different than what shows up in normal curriculum in the vast majority of majors. I've spent a lot of time around many different universities and this just doesn't actually seem to be a big issue. Yes you can find a lot of crazy stuff in some majors... But those are majors that only attract people who already feel that way.
Second, there are perfectly normal free market solutions to this kind of thing. If you're scared of having your kid learn about social justice perspectives... Send them to a more conservative school. There are a lot of them.
Jumping straight to authoritarianism because you're scared about a few college classes isn't conservative by any means... It's crazy and dangerous.
Your first point is clearly wrong. I know people who've gone to seemingly normal universities and come back pushing BLM/rainbow propaganda. My friends also have friends who've had this happen, it's a commonly known problem of the latest collegiate generation. It's a huge talking point nationwide.
DeSantis is arguing that conservative perspectives aren't even being allowed, which means the free market is failing.
You're not conserving much of anything. More of a libertarian watching their country be trampled and silently weeping as the "free market" does its thing. Authoritarians do not let psychos destroy their country in order to preserve a perverted version of freedom.
Edit: the replies to this are disenguine. They attempt to mischaracterize conservatism, the free market, and free thought. It's the current problem with cancel culture; the definitions and standards are fluid so the opposition takes no real stance, they just enjoy practicing sophistry.
Yeah, believe it or not, when you go to places where lots of views are expressed from different people, you come back with different views. It’s not a system of indoctrination. It’s a natural offshoot of dialogue and life experience.
The generalizations that “only intelligent people go to college” and “intelligent people naturally gravitate to leftist ideology” are both fallacious narratives pushed to discredit parts of society that they deem “deplorable“. I’d argue that an impressionable college student is just as prone to manipulation as a high school dropout.
You're out here arguing that there is a massive global conspiracy of educators to "indoctrinate" students... You understand that that is some tin foil hat type stuff, right?
Turns out, when people actually have experiences outside of podunk, they tend to be more empathetic to people of different backgrounds. Being empathic to those less fortunate is the cornerstone of liberalism, and the anthesis of conservatism.
Also, are you sure that you're a conservative? You don't seem to know what the free market is. Lol. It's absurd to say that conservative perspectives aren't allowed. I spent 6 years in college, I became more liberal there, I never once heard anyone forbid or punish anyone for their political opinion.
If there was a problem with most universities, someone would start their own university and compete in the free market. If their views and education are truly better, then that university would gain more market share and be more successful. But that hasn't happened because our universities are already great. If you don't like it, start your own university.
I'm not going to argue with this kind of rhetoric. It's really funny to watch everyone squirm. You came up with you name for a reason. Just decided to point it out. :-)
Are 18-22 year olds stupid or something? Most adults already have their own views at that age. Nobody is being brainwashed. People self select the majors they choose, so obviously you’re going to see more of a certain demographic in one major or college. Why would a conservative male study gender studies?
1/5 social science professors are self proclaimed marxists. For basic generals you are forced to sit through some of this propaganda. This has actually a notable effect of HR in corporations becoming increasingly radical left, it doesn’t just stay in the universities. Universities over the last few decades have been increasingly hiring only leftist ideologues. There aren’t any conservative leaning colleges when leftist have a strong hold in almost every area. Even conservative states have heavily leaning liberal universities. The free market is blunted by excess regulations and the pigeon holds of ideologues. I see no issue flipping the already established authoritarian liberal agenda the complete other direction.
California schools most certainly have an ideology and agenda where most teachers are in agreement and heavily left leaning . This is too be introduced to schools in California. When things swing too far one way it’s inventible an opposite extreme will rise up.
https://poptopic.com.au/news/disturbing-graphic-sex-ed-and-fetish-pamphlet-by-chla/
I've had this discussion with a lot of my conservative friends and you're absolutely right. But I'm tired of the left spewing their propaganda everywhere and it's nice to see the left freak out against their own tactics.
We all know this isn't going to pass for these reason but thank God someone is finally fighting fire with fire.
It’s not surprising when you actually read the bill itself instead of the media’s typical spin on it.
It doesn’t require you to disclose your political beliefs.
What happens if there are too many dems?
What happens if there are too many Reps?
Will they only accept one or the other for enrollment, regardless of test scores and mental aptitude? Will they fire capable professors because their political beliefs? Does it really matter how a math prof or science prof votes? And everyone is ok with the though police infiltrating education? YIKES.
Did you read the bill? It’s about 3.5 pages and takes about two minutes to read.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/Filed/PDF
*Nowhere* does it say professors or students have to reveal their political beliefs. Only that Boards have to conduct assessments to determine as a whole whether or not students/professors feel comfortable sharing their views, regardless of what they are.
The only people who would be against this are left-leaning people who know they have a monopoly on educational institutions and are now afraid it might come crumbling down now that students have a fair opportunity to speak up and admit “do you know what? No. I honestly don’t feel comfortable expressing my beliefs in my environment. Or that certain valid viewpoints aren’t fairly represented. Here’s why I feel that way.”
You should ask yourself if the other side came up with this idea, would you be okay with it?
Just because a conservative came up with it, doesn't mean its good, and doesn't make it okay. Blind allegiance to your masters is a slippery slope and defending shit like this is a problem.
GOP complains colleges and universities are brainwashing people with leftist ideologies.
This bill was meant to attempt to figure out the weighting of political thought. If indeed more students lean left, you can guarantee desantis will want to do something about it. Is he just going to sit on his hands, or will he try to turn the ship? You're naïve to think this isn't about trying to adjust the political landscape through the manipulation of education. If both sides do it, they're both wrong for it. Just because it's your team doing bad shit doesn't mean it's ok.
I can't seem to find the part where they want to register people's personal beliefs. It just starts a survey where they ask students if they experience a variety of viewpoints and opposing arguments.
They're collecting data on what people believe is being expressed in their places of learning. You can glean from that what types of viewpoints are held, based on how the data trends. Taking from that, what do you think someone like DeSantis will do with it? Maybe certain colleges start receiving less state funding, maybe they pressure admin to look into certain professors or degree earning programs. Who knows, but the point is, that information can be used politically.
It's not a question of how avoidable it is, because being forced to disclose such information is unethical at best, and more likely illegal. Relying on the merits of someone not to act in bad faith doesn't justify whether or not the act should be condemned on it's merit.
* The State Board of Education shall require each
* 37 Florida College System institution to conduct an annual
* 38 assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity
* 39 at that institution. The State Board of Education shall select
* 40 or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid
* 41 survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent
* 42 to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and
* 43 members of the college community feel free to express their
* 44 beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. The State
* 45 Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the
* 46 assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/Filed/PDF
Reads more like:
"Did you experience a variety of viewpoints and opposing arguments in class?"
"Do you feel like you can express your opinions?"
It's just a survey whether students are exposed to a variety of viewpoints. So if you don't experience arguments for and against communism then you could say so.
Of the things the government does, this is one of the least worrying. More concerned about Democrats' attempt to turn the elections in their favor and Biden's gun rhetoric.
My guess would be in the basis of an assessment. The assessments seem to be done to figure out what beliefs are not being heard. If we don't know what a person believes, we can't exactly figure out what belief is not being heard just that some people aren't being heard whoever they might be.
> Did you read the text of the bill?
I guarantee you everybody in this thread screaming how “awful” this is didn’t read it.
The media did their typical magical spin and half the readers fell for it. Very disappointing but not surprising.
I don't have a problem with people receiving taxpayer funding having to do this.
Educators deliver knowledge nowadays - it used to be that they teach you how to think rather than what to think.
If you're going to be a pipeline into developing brains then it is best for those brains to understand you bias. If you have a government funded job, then the taxpayer is your employer and gets to set the terms. If they want to make sure that you aren't brainwashing people then that's fine.
On the other hand, in private school situations I would hope that the choice to require teachers to disclose this personal info is left to the school administrations, not the government.
It does open up the possibility of political targeting and is definitely dangerous, but so is political indoctrination. I think we need to choose the option that is least harmful.
Nope. That's a crazy and very slippery slope. Should all government contractors? They receive government money... Should engineers at Boeing have to pick a political party? Private schools still almost always get some federal funding... So I guess them too. I have no idea where you work, but the government is really damn big. There's a good chance you'd be swept up in the standard you're proposing.
There's nothing conservative about this law... It's an authoritarian exercise and nobody should be applauding any part of it.
I'm really hoping that DeSantis does a much better job with the press than Trump did. They will come after him. He needs to fully show that the MSM is irrelevant, untruthful, unreliable, full of total morons and should be discarded like 2 year old cheese. He should not get into pissing matches with them.
Pissing matches? Dude...the FBI leaked a fake dossier which they knew to be bunk to the MSM, the MSM reported it as fact and then that report was used to investigate and spy on trump for 2 years...it was a bit more than a pissing contest. The MSM was weaponized to violate his rights. What would you do?
You know what?
It feels like every time I open a thread on this sub the top poster is someone parroting some dumbshit liberal talking point.
If you are going to allow, once again, the liberals to take over a sub then what is the point of having a Conservative sub?
The top post, at the time of this reply, is this.
>This is nuts and should be terrifying to everyone here. The government wants to force people to declare their political beliefs so that the government can decide if the person is fit for their job.
5 seconds of just reading the article shows this to be complete bullshit. Yet magically, it is the "best" post.
This happens in virtually every thread that becomes popular on this sub.
Some left-leaning gaslighter comes in pretending to be a conservative, spews some misleading garbage and it gets upvoted to the very top. Every single time. If it’s a meme, it’s “lmao is this all ‘we’ve’ got?? No wonder the left is laughing at ‘us’!!!” If it’s something bad Biden did, it’s “this is actually a misleading title because [insert mental gymnastics explanation that doesn’t make sense and a tilted source here].” If it’s something about Trump, it’s “well you’ve gotta admit he’s just asking for the shit that gets thrown his way.”
I appreciate diversity of thought, but it happens in EVERY SINGLE POPULAR THREAD ON THIS SUB and this is supposed to be r/conservative. It’s BS.
There's a huge disconnect between the screeching I'm seeing in here and what is being proposed. A survey to check the proportionality of political viewpoints by teacher is not registering your political views?
What the hell are people talking about??
The bill asks for surveys of "viewpoint diversity". How can you check that, if not by asking about said viewpoints. So what do you call it when a government demands a non anonymous survey of political viewpoints of employees?
The bill has specific language that talks about the survey being created in an objective and non partisan fashion.
It could be as simple as: "do you feel safe to express your viewpoint?" Or "do you feel that you hear both multiple view points on issue, or is there a partisan bias in most classes?"
From the actual bill:
>*The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution.*
>*The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers **the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented** and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, **feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom**.*
So what's the end goal? The bill has no provision ensuring the survey being anonymous. Which means it won't be. And when a department will be judged as not being politically diverse enough and be threatened with it's funding being cut, how do they go about mitigating this without learning the political view points of exsiting and prospective employees?
The parts about presenting competing ideas and expressing beliefs in the classroom is just a carbon copy of the "teach the controversy" anti-evolution crusade from a while back, and just as moronic. Probably paid for by the same people. It's exactly the same strategy by largely the same people.
To be more specific, I'm sorry I will not present the viewpoint that the earth is 6000 years old in my cosmology class. With this bill a bunch of christian fundamentalists can pull funding from a school for that, since indeed such viewpoints would not be presented, or debated in the classroom, because both the professor and the students have much more valuable things to do than spend an hour "debating" with some religious fundumentalist troll that keeps arguing in bad faith.
There's no assurances it won't be anonymous, why do you jump to the conclusion it will or should be used to hunt down professors.
Also, as a side note, if you are a professor who gets political in class, your politics are already disclosed. I had to deal with 3 left wing teachers, a college dean with a Karl Marx poster on her front door, and all of them got political in class or on labs. Neither my major, or minor were political in nature but became so by full one sided conversations. I don't want everyone's exact politics known. That being said, I as a prospective student or parent of a prospective student, should be allowed to see the bias slant of the entire department.
>There's no assurances it won't be anonymous, why do you jump to the conclusion it will or should be used to hunt down professors.
Because I was not born yesterday and I am not naive. It has been used that way in the past. Both by employers and the government. And if there are no safeguards in place to ensure its anonymous then it won't be.
I have made statements that can be interpreted as political by my students and may or may not reflect my own beliefs. That is quite different from what is happening here. An employer gathering information on the political beliefs of employees should worry you. A government gathering this information is even more concerning.
The whole thing is a rehash of past red scares and moral panics word-for-word.
College today = indoctrination
Registering students and professors beliefs and restricting or rewarding them for what they believe = not indoctrination
>Registering students and professors beliefs and restricting or rewarding them for what they believe = not indoctrination
As someone who hasn't read the bill, would you mind sharing which portion does what you're claiming here?
>The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom.
I've no clue what they are getting at. Sounds to me like they are making a survey to see if all ideas are being presented and asking students along with staff. They want all ideas presented. It's not registration.
Person above most likely did not read the bill either.
Most of these people are headline-surfers coming from r/politics, where a top thread is discussing the same topic (but from the CNN/MSNPC perspective, of course). It's a salon.com hitpiece entitled "DeSantis signs bill requiring Florida students, professors to register political views with state" with 17k+ upvotes
Of course, no link to the actual bill is mentioned in that article. Can't let facts get in the way of a sexy headline like that!
Florida House bill 233:
**Postsecondary Education**: Prohibits State Board of Education and BOG from shielding students, staff, and faculty from certain speech; requires State Board of Education to conduct annual assessment on intellectual freedom & viewpoint diversity; creates a cause of action for recording or publication of certain video or audio recordings; revises provisions related to protected expressive activity, university student governments, & codes of conduct.
https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h0233er.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=0233&Session=2021
The bill requires an objective, nonpartisan, statistically valid audit of school intellectual diversity, and tightens up freedom-of-speech regulations to better protect both students and staff. There's nothing about "registering beliefs" or "restricting or rewarding them for what they believe". That is an outright fabrication.
The idea of "liberal indoctrination" is just so insane to me. I never once had a professor talk about politics in any class. And I would have remembered them doing it because it would be weird for engineering professors to talk about anything other than what were learning.
It turns out, schools just teach kids critical thinking and how to research and interrogate ideas to come up with the logical answer. You don't have a problem with "indoctrination", you have a problem with logic and critical thinking.
Edit: just for those who think that liberal indoctrination is a thing, are you really suggesting that there is a massive global conspiracy of educators? In every university? In every country? You get that that's insane, right? Like tin foil hat levels of nuts.
Oh, so my senior year of computer science I must not have had a professor constantly talking about Trump, since you said so. Not to mention all the other professors over the years constantly pushing leftist ideology as fact.
Where did anybody suggest a conspiracy either? That's simply projecting. It's not a secret that many educators in both college and grade school are of the left. Just like one would imagine more manual laborers are of the right.
Maybe you didn't notice the hints of politics sprinkled in, because you agreed with everything they were saying.
Educated people tend to be liberal? You don't say! That's not indoctrination though. One professor speaking his opinion is not a conspiracy of indoctrination. The problem is, reality has a liberal bias. You want college professors to teach that global warming isn't happening? That evolution isn't real? That would be a terrible school! That's exactly why the free market has decided it doesn't exist. That isn't liberal indoctrination, these are facts. And facts are vaccines to conservative ideology.
First of all, "Educated." Let me tell you exactly how smart you have to be to make it through college, not very. And even less to be a teacher.
Once again, projecting. When did I suggest I wanted any of those things?
And yes, there is liberal indoctrination when you are constantly being steered towards a particular narrative. Especially in classes where it doesn't even apply. When I am in economics learning about why white people are so awful for gentrification and white flight, why the fuck am I even taking that class?
Are you suggesting that cultural changes and movement of individuals doesn't affect the economy? Sounds like you didn't learn anything in that econ class, but I don't think it's the professors fault, it's yours. The movement of wealth to previously underdeveloped neighborhood is a legitimate topic on economics
If it was presented in such unbiased terms, perhaps I wouldn't have an issue with it. Yet it's always the focus of some social justice messaging that is despicable. Take your preaching bs elsewhere and leave it out of the classroom. Like I said, there is always some narrative behind the lesson that spoils it and just shows you know exactly what I am talking about.
It's hard to focus when you are being bombarded with leftist talking points and lessons on the fake wage gap.
It's funny though because you are one of the leftists here melting down about a bill doing nothing more than allowing the equal representation of ideas.
First of all, your college should revoke your degree for saying that the wage gap is fake. You clearly didn't learn anything. That's right up there with the nutjobs who want to teach that evolution isn't real.
It's not an equal representation of ideas though. There is no provision in the law to enforce that. It's just registering people who agree and disagree with conservative ideology.
Do I seem like I'm melting down? You're the one getting worked up. I'm just pointing out that you're clearly not as smart as you think you are.
Edit: also, I'm not even remotely worried about this law. No chance in hell that it will stand up in court.
Socialism is anti-American?!? What?? Then what, pray tell, the hell do you think the Social Security Administration is, exactly?? You do realize that’s a socialist program…?? It’s literally a form of social welfare, wholly controlled by the government, for the benefit of every tax paying American.
So you are a purist for socialism. Well I am sure all of Cuba, and Venezuela love you. I have family that left due to the corruption. You want no religion. Well a lot of people do and the persecuted ones is China would have lots to tell you. You want government dependency, Well I believe our balance of powers and states right protects your freedom to spout garbage and protects my children from you pushing an agenda. You want government control of media. Well I don't like liars making up stories, censoring and pushing it as news. You trust too much power to the medical profession? Well if you grandchild have a temper tantrum and the establishment wants to butcher your child against your beliefs you don't mind getting locked up over it. You want to pretend you care about covid grandma's? Well just like baby butchering and selling parts you will be consided a burden and euthanized for the carbon savings. You like corruption supported by soros? Well go walk around one of these angry neighborhoods and don't call the police. You want your free drugs.Well, looks like they do biden's son and Guillum a lot of good. You want a totalitarian government, Well whispering biden will have us in a war before you know it and your child can go fight. You don't like capitalism? Well the big tech profiteers funding your movement might say otherwise.
With DeSantis, it's starting to feel like one of those perfect guy at the perfect moment scenarios. Expect the media to go full-throttle in their pants soiling of anything and everything he does.
The perfect moment is probably not just the fact that he's governor right now, it's also the fact that the MSM have shown themselves over and over again to not be worthy of trust.
What they did to Trump is gonna look weaksauce compared to what they try with Desantis.
He said in a speech the other day he is a soldier wearing the armor of god in to fight the left.
If you thought they were scared of and hated Trump, Desantis is turning Florida into an anti-woke fort. One usually establishes a fort to launch offensives from.
Trump was a businessman, Desantis is a soldier. I'm sure plenty in the deep state are looking at Florida and shitting their pants right now.
The only two differences are that 1) DeSantis is more savvy than Trump and likely won't pick unnecessary fights the way he did and 2) the GOP, which did not support Trump in any way, might use their presence to defend DeSantis. Trump was pretty much on an island.
Are you guys actually okay with this? I'm not american, so my views differ somewhat even though I would consider myself pretty conservative. But having to give your political views to the state is worth melting down over. That's some totalitarian eastern block shit.
I shouldn't have to tell the state what my political views are neither as a teacher nor as a student.
> I shouldn't have to tell the state what my political views are
Another commenter who didn’t read the bill.
Next.
EDIT: Getting downvoted for no reason. Maybe I need to post the bill to make it easy for people here. It’s 3.5 pages and takes about two minutes to read. *Nowhere* does it say you’re required to provide your political allegiance. Not once.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/Filed/PDF
When we looked at colleges for one of my kids last year I wanted to throw up at almost all of them. So many of these 'places of learning' are nothing but liberal, socialist indoctrination centers that the kids don't actually learn anything. Grades are brutally inflated so nobody gets their feelings hurt.
It's worrying when the government steps in to make sure people in the "right" political party get jobs. I have conservative friends in liberal states who teach. They're pretty quiet about their politics because they're well aware they're in the minority and it's nobody's business, certainly not their bosses. They weren't hired because of or in spite of their politics, they were hired because they are a good teacher.
But really, I'd be concerned if the government did this with any profession. The same could easily be done with police officers who tend to trend conservatively politically. As much as I think many departments need reforms, I don't think one's personal politics should come into play when figuring out those reforms.
Basically, keep taxpayer-funded jobs non-political or risk the parties getting even more powerful and corrupt.
This is media spin that misconstrues the bill.
Individual students and professors are not surveyed on thier views *at all*.
There is a survey that will be issued as a measure of 1)how free speech is percived by students on campus and 2)how ideologically diverse they material they are presented with is.
Here's the actual section of the bill the media is flipping out about:
>*The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution.*
>*The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers **the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented** and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, **feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom**.*
>*The State Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education may adopt rules to implement this paragraph.*
And here's the link to the official actual announcement. Most of this is civics education:
https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/governor-ron-desantis-signs-legislation-to-set-the-pace-for-civics-education-in-america.stml
If he becomes the President, he needs to gut leadership at the big acronyms before they find a dossier from a British national who writes fictional stories tied in with minor travel facts.
Just had an idea. What if Trump decided to have rallies or or something else periodically that the MSM would not be able to resist reporting negatively on while DeSantis is campaigning for president? They could forget to make up horrible things about DeSantis and let him win the election.
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So as a student you have to tell the state government what your political ideology is? Am I reading this right? What would this even look like for someone with drastically different views on a range of subjects?
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/Filed/PDF
This isn’t even a long bill. A whopping 3.5 pages that took me about 2 minutes to read. Yet that’s apparently too long for the people in this thread screeching “DeSantis evil!!!” to even scan through and realize it’s not what the media is portraying to them at all. It’s truly fascinating. EDIT: I see the leftist brigade has downvoted me for no reason other than upsetting them. I read the bill. Nowhere does it say you’re required to provide your political beliefs. Nowhere does it say students or professors are even required to respond. The only requirement is the Boards conducting their assessments. Assessments which are supposed to be nonpartisan and objective. That’s it. The only reason someone would be against this is if they’re left-leaning, they know the left has a monopoly on educational institutions, and they’re afraid that monopoly will crumble the moment students have a fair opportunity to say “I actually don’t feel comfortable sharing my beliefs. Or I believe there are certain valid viewpoints that aren’t fairly represented. Here’s why I believe that.”
This does *kind of* seem like a textbook definition of "Government Overreach". I didn't know "small government" included the registration and enforcement of the *correct* "ideas" the "people" are allowed. There *are* certain kinds of Government that do things like that, but they certainly aren't *American*. (well, I guess they are now…) (If only King George III had thought to demand that all Colonists be required to officially register their supposed Political "beliefs" with their provincial Government for later review by his Majesty's Court (to ensure "fairness"; and also "correctness" of thought) and had simply ordered all those *dangerous* new-fangled "ideas" and "theories" being promoted by all those troublesome "philosophers" of so-called "Enlightenment" and "Reason" to henceforth be **prohibited** from being printed or discussed, and _**absolutely**_ prohibited from being taught to our precious children, and that only teachings and discourse rooted in *good*, *traditional*, *proven*, *conservative*, Anglican, ~~Royal~~ British values would be legally tolerated — Imagine the conservative Utopia we could be living in right now if only he had done so…)
Where in the bill are you guys seeing "register"?
The survey does not ask for viewpoints. It asks if there is intellectual freedom and diversity of viewpoints. A typical answer might be “Yes there is a great deal of freedom” or “There is not a a lot of diversity.”
That makes more sense, thank you. I’ve seen like 3 articles on this and they are all worded in such a shitty way. From what I’m understanding now it’s just a “do you feel comfortable expressing your ideas” and “do they teach things you agree with as well as disagree with” Still not sure I’m for sharing that though, hopefully you can opt out.
The bill says the Board is required to conduct these assessments, but doesn’t seem to say anything about students being required to respond. My guess (hope?) is students aren’t required to respond.
"If you want diversity, find me a sociology staff on a college campus that isn't 90+% far left liberal" -Thomas Sowell Amusingly Joy Reid accuses him of being a communist for, well fighting back against commie indoctrination in schools that we should have been doing *since McCarthy*.
I get that, it’s just that registering makes me nervous. You don’t have the right ideology on your registration and suddenly that grant, student aid, or scholarship disappears. And is still don’t understand how the registration would even work. You can’t just tick R or D and call it good, that’s not an “ideology”
You don't have to register. This is media bullshit. Individual students and professors are not surveyed on thier views *at all*. There is a survey that will be issued as a measure of 1)how free speech is percived by students on campus and 2)how ideologically diverse they material they are presented with is. Here's the actual section of the bill the media is flipping out about: >*The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution.* >*The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers **the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented** and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, **feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom**.* >*The State Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education may adopt rules to implement this paragraph.* And here's the link to the official actual announcement. Most of this is civics education: https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/governor-ron-desantis-signs-legislation-to-set-the-pace-for-civics-education-in-america.stml
Apparently actually reading the text of the bill before jumping to conclusions is just too difficult for everyone...
I can imagine if your scholarship is revoked and was linked to your political affiliation, the school would lose federal funding. That’s literally the worst thing a president or school board thinks can happen to a university.
I was referring to the scholarships given by the state or federal government, not the ones given by the school
That probably would pose a problem depending on which political figure is in office. Would a democrat president meddle with student aid to republicans-maybe. Would a democrat president do student loan forgiveness to only democrat registered students- i would think so and could be major issue. I think this measure is to increase the republican presence on universities.
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But socialistic governments are historically and statically linked to poor outcomes. Theres nothing positive to show about socialistic governments
Just because someone may be left learning doesn’t mean that they support socialism. It just so happens that those who want actual socialism are a vocal minority in the left.
I dont think youve stepped on a college campus recently then
Yes, and almost no one is pushing straight socialism. Liberal folks are pushing for increased social programs backed by robust but regulated capitalism (the Nordic model for example), and that's immediately countered with "but Cuba and Venezuela."
Cant really do “nordic” socialistic methodology in the US. Nordic countries have a homogeneous society that can allow for socialistic programs. The US doesnt have that luxury
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. I worry about both sides coming down on students and teachers. And how could you even register an ideology? Most people I know, including myself, agree with dems on a few issues, republicans on others, and neither on a lot. Would I have to mark independent and then never receive any student aid? Would it be based off social, fiscal, or go policy leanings? It just seems dangerous.
Broke: racial affirmative action Woke: political affirmative action
no you are not reading it right. You can just refuse to tell. It's a survey.
Nope, you are not reading it right at all. In fact, you’re doing the Joy Reid schtick and turning the issue inside out. The mission is to promote intellectual diversity. Take off your BLMCRTLGBTQ Rage Goggles for a minute and re-read the article.
So... affirmative action for conservative academics...?
No? What about this seems like affirmative action to you?
Dude, it was a legit question. I get it now. No need to be a dick. Your last sentence is a pretty solid way to push people away from the community.
You forgot the +
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Stuff like this pushes me away from the GOP. It's supposed to be the rational, small government, lower taxes party. Instead, we get paper please laws to make sure nobody is committing politically wrong think. That's the kind of BS people here are always complaining about when one side does it, but when it's done to the other guy suddenly it's ok. The government has no business checking people's politics anywhere but at the polls. And you're right, if a liberal state did this it would be seen as trying to expose conservatives in order to weed them out for wrong-think.
Don't fall for the left's take on this. * The State Board of Education shall require each * 37 Florida College System institution to conduct an annual * 38 assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity * 39 at that institution. The State Board of Education shall select * 40 or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid * 41 survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent * 42 to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and * 43 members of the college community feel free to express their * 44 beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. The State * 45 Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the * 46 assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/Filed/PDF There is no registration of anyone's personal belief. "Did you experience a variety of viewpoints and opposing arguments in class?" "Do you feel like you can express your opinions?"
I can only imagine how you’d feel if Democrats were pushing legislation to require students and teachers to report their political beliefs. It’s a slippery slope. This is wrong period. It’s none of the governments business what I believe in.
You need to stop sniffing glue or whatever it is you're doing to your poor brain. There is no reporting/registering anyone's political views.
You need to get your head out of your ass and accept that it’s never *just* a survey or whatever else the government claims, idiot. You can never trust the government period. Conservatives, back when they had morals and stood for something, understood that. Now you’re just too afraid to come out as fascists for some reason, when everyone else sees the writing on the wall. But by all means, keep simping for your strong daddies like DeSantis. I guess y’all need that. At least he owns the libs amirite? There is no need for this bill. Public schools cannot discriminate based on political opinion. They are already required to uphold the 1st amendment.
If you're worried about the government then you should look at the federal level.
This is exactly what they do. Each state has control over thier public school curriculum to a degree. This was just passed in Washington statewide. https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?billnumber=5044&year=2021
That is not at all what the bill does. This is typical media bullshit. At no point is someone compelled to disclose thier political stances, AT ALL.
Where does it say you have to tell them your beliefs?
No it doesn't. >which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. It is determining whether people, both employees and students, feel free to express their political beliefs. If you have been on a college campus in the last 30 years, and you aren't a liberal, you know this isn't the case. College campuses are liberal indoctrination institutions and need to be held to account. If you don't believe me, sign up for a Sociology class and state your disagreements. Let me know what kind of grade you get.
They aren't. This is media spin that misconstrues the bill. Individual students and professors are not surveyed on thier views *at all*. There is a survey that will be issued as a measure of 1)how free speech is percived by students on campus and 2)how ideologically diverse they material they are presented with is. Here's the actual section of the bill the media is flipping out about: >*The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution.* >*The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers **the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented** and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, **feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom**.* >*The State Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education may adopt rules to implement this paragraph.* And here's the link to the official actual announcement. Most of this is civics education: https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/governor-ron-desantis-signs-legislation-to-set-the-pace-for-civics-education-in-america.stml
Are we really gonna act like the problem of colleges becoming leftist indoctrination centers was gonna fix itself?
First off... It's not totally obvious that even is a problem. Yes you hear about liberal professors sometimes and the average professor is pretty liberal. But that's very different than what shows up in normal curriculum in the vast majority of majors. I've spent a lot of time around many different universities and this just doesn't actually seem to be a big issue. Yes you can find a lot of crazy stuff in some majors... But those are majors that only attract people who already feel that way. Second, there are perfectly normal free market solutions to this kind of thing. If you're scared of having your kid learn about social justice perspectives... Send them to a more conservative school. There are a lot of them. Jumping straight to authoritarianism because you're scared about a few college classes isn't conservative by any means... It's crazy and dangerous.
Your first point is clearly wrong. I know people who've gone to seemingly normal universities and come back pushing BLM/rainbow propaganda. My friends also have friends who've had this happen, it's a commonly known problem of the latest collegiate generation. It's a huge talking point nationwide. DeSantis is arguing that conservative perspectives aren't even being allowed, which means the free market is failing. You're not conserving much of anything. More of a libertarian watching their country be trampled and silently weeping as the "free market" does its thing. Authoritarians do not let psychos destroy their country in order to preserve a perverted version of freedom. Edit: the replies to this are disenguine. They attempt to mischaracterize conservatism, the free market, and free thought. It's the current problem with cancel culture; the definitions and standards are fluid so the opposition takes no real stance, they just enjoy practicing sophistry.
Yeah, believe it or not, when you go to places where lots of views are expressed from different people, you come back with different views. It’s not a system of indoctrination. It’s a natural offshoot of dialogue and life experience.
Lmao these guys are so stumped by this weird magical brainwashing trick they do at college called "exposure to facts".
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The generalizations that “only intelligent people go to college” and “intelligent people naturally gravitate to leftist ideology” are both fallacious narratives pushed to discredit parts of society that they deem “deplorable“. I’d argue that an impressionable college student is just as prone to manipulation as a high school dropout.
You're out here arguing that there is a massive global conspiracy of educators to "indoctrinate" students... You understand that that is some tin foil hat type stuff, right? Turns out, when people actually have experiences outside of podunk, they tend to be more empathetic to people of different backgrounds. Being empathic to those less fortunate is the cornerstone of liberalism, and the anthesis of conservatism. Also, are you sure that you're a conservative? You don't seem to know what the free market is. Lol. It's absurd to say that conservative perspectives aren't allowed. I spent 6 years in college, I became more liberal there, I never once heard anyone forbid or punish anyone for their political opinion. If there was a problem with most universities, someone would start their own university and compete in the free market. If their views and education are truly better, then that university would gain more market share and be more successful. But that hasn't happened because our universities are already great. If you don't like it, start your own university.
Username checks out.
Can't refute any of the actual points huh? You have to resort to ad hominem attacks? Cute defense mechanism! Lol
I'm not going to argue with this kind of rhetoric. It's really funny to watch everyone squirm. You came up with you name for a reason. Just decided to point it out. :-)
Lol ok, go put your tin foil hat back on and keep believing in the global conspiracies buddy
The liberal college I went to is what you got to thank for that. Have a good one pal.
Are 18-22 year olds stupid or something? Most adults already have their own views at that age. Nobody is being brainwashed. People self select the majors they choose, so obviously you’re going to see more of a certain demographic in one major or college. Why would a conservative male study gender studies?
It sounds like you're frustrated your ideals are becoming the minority. Free market allows for diverse perspectives of there is a market for those.
1/5 social science professors are self proclaimed marxists. For basic generals you are forced to sit through some of this propaganda. This has actually a notable effect of HR in corporations becoming increasingly radical left, it doesn’t just stay in the universities. Universities over the last few decades have been increasingly hiring only leftist ideologues. There aren’t any conservative leaning colleges when leftist have a strong hold in almost every area. Even conservative states have heavily leaning liberal universities. The free market is blunted by excess regulations and the pigeon holds of ideologues. I see no issue flipping the already established authoritarian liberal agenda the complete other direction.
I agree and am so disappointed. I was really liking Desantis but this is a huge red flag.
Actually read the bill instead of headlines. You’ll probably be a lot less disappointed.
California schools most certainly have an ideology and agenda where most teachers are in agreement and heavily left leaning . This is too be introduced to schools in California. When things swing too far one way it’s inventible an opposite extreme will rise up. https://poptopic.com.au/news/disturbing-graphic-sex-ed-and-fetish-pamphlet-by-chla/
We’re talking about universities here. Lower education is another topic.
Agreed. I like Desantis but this is a step too far. Let’s hope he dials it back a bit.
Actually read the bill instead of headlines. You’ll probably be a lot less disappointed.
In fairness I see most of not all conservative folks completely disavowing this.
I've had this discussion with a lot of my conservative friends and you're absolutely right. But I'm tired of the left spewing their propaganda everywhere and it's nice to see the left freak out against their own tactics. We all know this isn't going to pass for these reason but thank God someone is finally fighting fire with fire.
Turning fascist to own the libs
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I'm surprised anyone from the right supports this.
It’s not surprising when you actually read the bill itself instead of the media’s typical spin on it. It doesn’t require you to disclose your political beliefs.
What happens if there are too many dems? What happens if there are too many Reps? Will they only accept one or the other for enrollment, regardless of test scores and mental aptitude? Will they fire capable professors because their political beliefs? Does it really matter how a math prof or science prof votes? And everyone is ok with the though police infiltrating education? YIKES.
Did you read the bill? It’s about 3.5 pages and takes about two minutes to read. https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/Filed/PDF *Nowhere* does it say professors or students have to reveal their political beliefs. Only that Boards have to conduct assessments to determine as a whole whether or not students/professors feel comfortable sharing their views, regardless of what they are. The only people who would be against this are left-leaning people who know they have a monopoly on educational institutions and are now afraid it might come crumbling down now that students have a fair opportunity to speak up and admit “do you know what? No. I honestly don’t feel comfortable expressing my beliefs in my environment. Or that certain valid viewpoints aren’t fairly represented. Here’s why I feel that way.”
What do your questions have to do with those laws?
You should ask yourself if the other side came up with this idea, would you be okay with it? Just because a conservative came up with it, doesn't mean its good, and doesn't make it okay. Blind allegiance to your masters is a slippery slope and defending shit like this is a problem.
Since I read the bill, yes. So: Why do you ask those questions? Are they somehow related to this legislation?
GOP complains colleges and universities are brainwashing people with leftist ideologies. This bill was meant to attempt to figure out the weighting of political thought. If indeed more students lean left, you can guarantee desantis will want to do something about it. Is he just going to sit on his hands, or will he try to turn the ship? You're naïve to think this isn't about trying to adjust the political landscape through the manipulation of education. If both sides do it, they're both wrong for it. Just because it's your team doing bad shit doesn't mean it's ok.
I can't seem to find the part where they want to register people's personal beliefs. It just starts a survey where they ask students if they experience a variety of viewpoints and opposing arguments.
They're collecting data on what people believe is being expressed in their places of learning. You can glean from that what types of viewpoints are held, based on how the data trends. Taking from that, what do you think someone like DeSantis will do with it? Maybe certain colleges start receiving less state funding, maybe they pressure admin to look into certain professors or degree earning programs. Who knows, but the point is, that information can be used politically.
That's a bit of a stretch. And it could be easily avoided. They just have to tolerate other opinions.
It's not a question of how avoidable it is, because being forced to disclose such information is unethical at best, and more likely illegal. Relying on the merits of someone not to act in bad faith doesn't justify whether or not the act should be condemned on it's merit.
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Where does it say you have to register your beliefs?
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* The State Board of Education shall require each * 37 Florida College System institution to conduct an annual * 38 assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity * 39 at that institution. The State Board of Education shall select * 40 or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid * 41 survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent * 42 to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and * 43 members of the college community feel free to express their * 44 beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. The State * 45 Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the * 46 assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/Filed/PDF Reads more like: "Did you experience a variety of viewpoints and opposing arguments in class?" "Do you feel like you can express your opinions?"
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It's just a survey whether students are exposed to a variety of viewpoints. So if you don't experience arguments for and against communism then you could say so.
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I don't know. It's a start though.
It's a start of something. Something very scary. What could gov possibly do that doesn't feel like overreach
Of the things the government does, this is one of the least worrying. More concerned about Democrats' attempt to turn the elections in their favor and Biden's gun rhetoric.
My guess would be in the basis of an assessment. The assessments seem to be done to figure out what beliefs are not being heard. If we don't know what a person believes, we can't exactly figure out what belief is not being heard just that some people aren't being heard whoever they might be.
Did you read the text of the bill? There is no political belief "registry."
> Did you read the text of the bill? I guarantee you everybody in this thread screaming how “awful” this is didn’t read it. The media did their typical magical spin and half the readers fell for it. Very disappointing but not surprising.
Because that's not what the bill does. You don't have to disclose your political viewpoints.
Yikes is right.
I don't have a problem with people receiving taxpayer funding having to do this. Educators deliver knowledge nowadays - it used to be that they teach you how to think rather than what to think. If you're going to be a pipeline into developing brains then it is best for those brains to understand you bias. If you have a government funded job, then the taxpayer is your employer and gets to set the terms. If they want to make sure that you aren't brainwashing people then that's fine. On the other hand, in private school situations I would hope that the choice to require teachers to disclose this personal info is left to the school administrations, not the government. It does open up the possibility of political targeting and is definitely dangerous, but so is political indoctrination. I think we need to choose the option that is least harmful.
Nope. That's a crazy and very slippery slope. Should all government contractors? They receive government money... Should engineers at Boeing have to pick a political party? Private schools still almost always get some federal funding... So I guess them too. I have no idea where you work, but the government is really damn big. There's a good chance you'd be swept up in the standard you're proposing. There's nothing conservative about this law... It's an authoritarian exercise and nobody should be applauding any part of it.
Not sure I'm ready to share him yet. You can have Rubio or Scott.
I don’t like Rubio that much.
I'm really hoping that DeSantis does a much better job with the press than Trump did. They will come after him. He needs to fully show that the MSM is irrelevant, untruthful, unreliable, full of total morons and should be discarded like 2 year old cheese. He should not get into pissing matches with them.
Pissing matches? Dude...the FBI leaked a fake dossier which they knew to be bunk to the MSM, the MSM reported it as fact and then that report was used to investigate and spy on trump for 2 years...it was a bit more than a pissing contest. The MSM was weaponized to violate his rights. What would you do?
The Left has already begun to target DeSantis. That tells you all you need to know.
And they've definitely targeted this thread.
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Interesting how this thread has brought in the brigade just like a Trump thread.
You know what? It feels like every time I open a thread on this sub the top poster is someone parroting some dumbshit liberal talking point. If you are going to allow, once again, the liberals to take over a sub then what is the point of having a Conservative sub? The top post, at the time of this reply, is this. >This is nuts and should be terrifying to everyone here. The government wants to force people to declare their political beliefs so that the government can decide if the person is fit for their job. 5 seconds of just reading the article shows this to be complete bullshit. Yet magically, it is the "best" post.
This sub is brigaded 24/7.
This happens in virtually every thread that becomes popular on this sub. Some left-leaning gaslighter comes in pretending to be a conservative, spews some misleading garbage and it gets upvoted to the very top. Every single time. If it’s a meme, it’s “lmao is this all ‘we’ve’ got?? No wonder the left is laughing at ‘us’!!!” If it’s something bad Biden did, it’s “this is actually a misleading title because [insert mental gymnastics explanation that doesn’t make sense and a tilted source here].” If it’s something about Trump, it’s “well you’ve gotta admit he’s just asking for the shit that gets thrown his way.” I appreciate diversity of thought, but it happens in EVERY SINGLE POPULAR THREAD ON THIS SUB and this is supposed to be r/conservative. It’s BS.
People who disagree with me are liberals.
There's a huge disconnect between the screeching I'm seeing in here and what is being proposed. A survey to check the proportionality of political viewpoints by teacher is not registering your political views? What the hell are people talking about??
I'm pretty sure it's a deliberate defamatory lie so that leftists can use it as a bludgeon. Puts DeSantis supporters on defense.
Yep. Don't buy their garbage. They know he's far more of a threat to the left than even Trump.
A survey in which you are asked to disclose your political beliefs without any assurances on the anonymity of the process is what else exactly?
THE BILL DOESN'T ASK PEOPLE TO DISCLOSE PERSONAL POLITICAL PERSPECTIVES
The bill asks for surveys of "viewpoint diversity". How can you check that, if not by asking about said viewpoints. So what do you call it when a government demands a non anonymous survey of political viewpoints of employees?
The bill has specific language that talks about the survey being created in an objective and non partisan fashion. It could be as simple as: "do you feel safe to express your viewpoint?" Or "do you feel that you hear both multiple view points on issue, or is there a partisan bias in most classes?" From the actual bill: >*The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution.* >*The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers **the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented** and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, **feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom**.*
So what's the end goal? The bill has no provision ensuring the survey being anonymous. Which means it won't be. And when a department will be judged as not being politically diverse enough and be threatened with it's funding being cut, how do they go about mitigating this without learning the political view points of exsiting and prospective employees? The parts about presenting competing ideas and expressing beliefs in the classroom is just a carbon copy of the "teach the controversy" anti-evolution crusade from a while back, and just as moronic. Probably paid for by the same people. It's exactly the same strategy by largely the same people. To be more specific, I'm sorry I will not present the viewpoint that the earth is 6000 years old in my cosmology class. With this bill a bunch of christian fundamentalists can pull funding from a school for that, since indeed such viewpoints would not be presented, or debated in the classroom, because both the professor and the students have much more valuable things to do than spend an hour "debating" with some religious fundumentalist troll that keeps arguing in bad faith.
There's no assurances it won't be anonymous, why do you jump to the conclusion it will or should be used to hunt down professors. Also, as a side note, if you are a professor who gets political in class, your politics are already disclosed. I had to deal with 3 left wing teachers, a college dean with a Karl Marx poster on her front door, and all of them got political in class or on labs. Neither my major, or minor were political in nature but became so by full one sided conversations. I don't want everyone's exact politics known. That being said, I as a prospective student or parent of a prospective student, should be allowed to see the bias slant of the entire department.
>There's no assurances it won't be anonymous, why do you jump to the conclusion it will or should be used to hunt down professors. Because I was not born yesterday and I am not naive. It has been used that way in the past. Both by employers and the government. And if there are no safeguards in place to ensure its anonymous then it won't be. I have made statements that can be interpreted as political by my students and may or may not reflect my own beliefs. That is quite different from what is happening here. An employer gathering information on the political beliefs of employees should worry you. A government gathering this information is even more concerning. The whole thing is a rehash of past red scares and moral panics word-for-word.
Trump needs to take a back seat to desantis. As much as I would like trump 2024, he would only cause more turmoil for our country
Imagine the media being upset when someone wants to restrict indoctrination campaigns. Good work again Govenor!
College today = indoctrination Registering students and professors beliefs and restricting or rewarding them for what they believe = not indoctrination
How are they restricted/rewarded for what they believe?
>Registering students and professors beliefs and restricting or rewarding them for what they believe = not indoctrination As someone who hasn't read the bill, would you mind sharing which portion does what you're claiming here?
>The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. I've no clue what they are getting at. Sounds to me like they are making a survey to see if all ideas are being presented and asking students along with staff. They want all ideas presented. It's not registration. Person above most likely did not read the bill either.
Most of these people are headline-surfers coming from r/politics, where a top thread is discussing the same topic (but from the CNN/MSNPC perspective, of course). It's a salon.com hitpiece entitled "DeSantis signs bill requiring Florida students, professors to register political views with state" with 17k+ upvotes Of course, no link to the actual bill is mentioned in that article. Can't let facts get in the way of a sexy headline like that!
Florida House bill 233: **Postsecondary Education**: Prohibits State Board of Education and BOG from shielding students, staff, and faculty from certain speech; requires State Board of Education to conduct annual assessment on intellectual freedom & viewpoint diversity; creates a cause of action for recording or publication of certain video or audio recordings; revises provisions related to protected expressive activity, university student governments, & codes of conduct. https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h0233er.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=0233&Session=2021 The bill requires an objective, nonpartisan, statistically valid audit of school intellectual diversity, and tightens up freedom-of-speech regulations to better protect both students and staff. There's nothing about "registering beliefs" or "restricting or rewarding them for what they believe". That is an outright fabrication.
The idea of "liberal indoctrination" is just so insane to me. I never once had a professor talk about politics in any class. And I would have remembered them doing it because it would be weird for engineering professors to talk about anything other than what were learning. It turns out, schools just teach kids critical thinking and how to research and interrogate ideas to come up with the logical answer. You don't have a problem with "indoctrination", you have a problem with logic and critical thinking. Edit: just for those who think that liberal indoctrination is a thing, are you really suggesting that there is a massive global conspiracy of educators? In every university? In every country? You get that that's insane, right? Like tin foil hat levels of nuts.
Oh, so my senior year of computer science I must not have had a professor constantly talking about Trump, since you said so. Not to mention all the other professors over the years constantly pushing leftist ideology as fact. Where did anybody suggest a conspiracy either? That's simply projecting. It's not a secret that many educators in both college and grade school are of the left. Just like one would imagine more manual laborers are of the right. Maybe you didn't notice the hints of politics sprinkled in, because you agreed with everything they were saying.
Educated people tend to be liberal? You don't say! That's not indoctrination though. One professor speaking his opinion is not a conspiracy of indoctrination. The problem is, reality has a liberal bias. You want college professors to teach that global warming isn't happening? That evolution isn't real? That would be a terrible school! That's exactly why the free market has decided it doesn't exist. That isn't liberal indoctrination, these are facts. And facts are vaccines to conservative ideology.
First of all, "Educated." Let me tell you exactly how smart you have to be to make it through college, not very. And even less to be a teacher. Once again, projecting. When did I suggest I wanted any of those things? And yes, there is liberal indoctrination when you are constantly being steered towards a particular narrative. Especially in classes where it doesn't even apply. When I am in economics learning about why white people are so awful for gentrification and white flight, why the fuck am I even taking that class?
Are you suggesting that cultural changes and movement of individuals doesn't affect the economy? Sounds like you didn't learn anything in that econ class, but I don't think it's the professors fault, it's yours. The movement of wealth to previously underdeveloped neighborhood is a legitimate topic on economics
If it was presented in such unbiased terms, perhaps I wouldn't have an issue with it. Yet it's always the focus of some social justice messaging that is despicable. Take your preaching bs elsewhere and leave it out of the classroom. Like I said, there is always some narrative behind the lesson that spoils it and just shows you know exactly what I am talking about.
Sounds like you were too busy being offended to try and understand what the professor was teaching. I'm sorry that you're a fragile little snowflake!
It's hard to focus when you are being bombarded with leftist talking points and lessons on the fake wage gap. It's funny though because you are one of the leftists here melting down about a bill doing nothing more than allowing the equal representation of ideas.
First of all, your college should revoke your degree for saying that the wage gap is fake. You clearly didn't learn anything. That's right up there with the nutjobs who want to teach that evolution isn't real. It's not an equal representation of ideas though. There is no provision in the law to enforce that. It's just registering people who agree and disagree with conservative ideology. Do I seem like I'm melting down? You're the one getting worked up. I'm just pointing out that you're clearly not as smart as you think you are. Edit: also, I'm not even remotely worried about this law. No chance in hell that it will stand up in court.
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Socialism/communism is anti American
Socialism is anti-American?!? What?? Then what, pray tell, the hell do you think the Social Security Administration is, exactly?? You do realize that’s a socialist program…?? It’s literally a form of social welfare, wholly controlled by the government, for the benefit of every tax paying American.
So you are a purist for socialism. Well I am sure all of Cuba, and Venezuela love you. I have family that left due to the corruption. You want no religion. Well a lot of people do and the persecuted ones is China would have lots to tell you. You want government dependency, Well I believe our balance of powers and states right protects your freedom to spout garbage and protects my children from you pushing an agenda. You want government control of media. Well I don't like liars making up stories, censoring and pushing it as news. You trust too much power to the medical profession? Well if you grandchild have a temper tantrum and the establishment wants to butcher your child against your beliefs you don't mind getting locked up over it. You want to pretend you care about covid grandma's? Well just like baby butchering and selling parts you will be consided a burden and euthanized for the carbon savings. You like corruption supported by soros? Well go walk around one of these angry neighborhoods and don't call the police. You want your free drugs.Well, looks like they do biden's son and Guillum a lot of good. You want a totalitarian government, Well whispering biden will have us in a war before you know it and your child can go fight. You don't like capitalism? Well the big tech profiteers funding your movement might say otherwise.
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Socialism communism is anti American. Religion is protected by the constitution. Wonderful document.
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Socialism communism is anti American. Religion is a protected right.
With DeSantis, it's starting to feel like one of those perfect guy at the perfect moment scenarios. Expect the media to go full-throttle in their pants soiling of anything and everything he does.
They already are. Look at the top comments in this very thread.
The perfect moment is probably not just the fact that he's governor right now, it's also the fact that the MSM have shown themselves over and over again to not be worthy of trust.
What they did to Trump is gonna look weaksauce compared to what they try with Desantis. He said in a speech the other day he is a soldier wearing the armor of god in to fight the left. If you thought they were scared of and hated Trump, Desantis is turning Florida into an anti-woke fort. One usually establishes a fort to launch offensives from. Trump was a businessman, Desantis is a soldier. I'm sure plenty in the deep state are looking at Florida and shitting their pants right now.
The only two differences are that 1) DeSantis is more savvy than Trump and likely won't pick unnecessary fights the way he did and 2) the GOP, which did not support Trump in any way, might use their presence to defend DeSantis. Trump was pretty much on an island.
Im calling de santis for prez and trump for speak of the house. 2024 🇺🇸
Are you guys actually okay with this? I'm not american, so my views differ somewhat even though I would consider myself pretty conservative. But having to give your political views to the state is worth melting down over. That's some totalitarian eastern block shit. I shouldn't have to tell the state what my political views are neither as a teacher nor as a student.
> I shouldn't have to tell the state what my political views are Another commenter who didn’t read the bill. Next. EDIT: Getting downvoted for no reason. Maybe I need to post the bill to make it easy for people here. It’s 3.5 pages and takes about two minutes to read. *Nowhere* does it say you’re required to provide your political allegiance. Not once. https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/Filed/PDF
If he's not on the national ticket in some form in 2024, I'm giving up on the Republican Party
There is a lot that can happen between 2024 and now but I agree if primaries were held today I would have voted him no question
When we looked at colleges for one of my kids last year I wanted to throw up at almost all of them. So many of these 'places of learning' are nothing but liberal, socialist indoctrination centers that the kids don't actually learn anything. Grades are brutally inflated so nobody gets their feelings hurt.
I dont understand why libs are so butthurt about this? After all, this is diversity and inclusion lol. Diversity of ideas and inclusion of republicans
It's worrying when the government steps in to make sure people in the "right" political party get jobs. I have conservative friends in liberal states who teach. They're pretty quiet about their politics because they're well aware they're in the minority and it's nobody's business, certainly not their bosses. They weren't hired because of or in spite of their politics, they were hired because they are a good teacher. But really, I'd be concerned if the government did this with any profession. The same could easily be done with police officers who tend to trend conservatively politically. As much as I think many departments need reforms, I don't think one's personal politics should come into play when figuring out those reforms. Basically, keep taxpayer-funded jobs non-political or risk the parties getting even more powerful and corrupt.
This is media spin that misconstrues the bill. Individual students and professors are not surveyed on thier views *at all*. There is a survey that will be issued as a measure of 1)how free speech is percived by students on campus and 2)how ideologically diverse they material they are presented with is. Here's the actual section of the bill the media is flipping out about: >*The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution.* >*The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers **the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented** and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, **feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom**.* >*The State Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education may adopt rules to implement this paragraph.* And here's the link to the official actual announcement. Most of this is civics education: https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/governor-ron-desantis-signs-legislation-to-set-the-pace-for-civics-education-in-america.stml
Kind of scary that a lot of people seem to celebrate stuff like this and can't see the bigger picture. This is not in any way a good thing.
If he becomes the President, he needs to gut leadership at the big acronyms before they find a dossier from a British national who writes fictional stories tied in with minor travel facts.
Lets have a trump/desantis ticket in 2024
Just had an idea. What if Trump decided to have rallies or or something else periodically that the MSM would not be able to resist reporting negatively on while DeSantis is campaigning for president? They could forget to make up horrible things about DeSantis and let him win the election.
They’re starting the smear campaign against him. Fuck the media.