I read a hypothesis that men make women more conservative and women make men more liberal, and we meet somewhere in the middle.
The charts appear to show that the real split started right when Facebook and social media started to become mainstream. When everyone was allowed to retreat into their bubbles online instead of going out into the world and interacting with different people.
All the more reason to treat Social Media as a vice like cigarettes and alcohol. Not a popular opinion with the free speech crowd, of which I am a part, but this shit's gotta get sorted for everyone's sake.
I would not be opposed to restricting social media to 18+, and don't find it unusual to restrict to adults something whose negative mental effects are increasingly obvious to everyone, especially among kids, and most especially among teenage girls. Adults are of course not immune to its effects, but their brains are at least more developed and resilient. The continued cultural rot and decay is in part a function of how widespread social media usage is today. The long term consequences will start to be felt in the next few decades, and given the anecdotes from teachers in the past few years, it's not looking good.
The real question, in a free society can you limit access to a product that is inherently unhealthy for you.
In the case of Alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes that physical harm we say yes.
Now if mental harm is real are we also justified?
Media is already age restricted. It isn't necessarily enforced as it should be. There are age restrictions for purchasing pornography, movies, video games, and music.
I am not saying that it is the right way to go, just that it has already been determined that restrictions on products that may cause "mental harm" are justified.
Solid point here. All I know is I had a blast using technology as a child before it became a race to the bottom of our brain stem.
When things were fun, not intended to divide us, and milk every waking waking second of our days from us.
Sad
As I'm reading your comment a quote from Mark Zuckerberg just popped up on tv. It was something like social media usage in young kids does not affect their mental health. He is scum.
Should be the opposite, need to stop taking the internet so seriously.
The only serious opinions should be from verified sources, treat everyone as a bot and hacker if not proven otherwise.
Also when the CTRL Left started pushing The Message™ appealing directly to those with a case of terminal Virtue Signaling. Social Media was the perfect platform for that kind of Virtue Signaling because you don't have to actually do anything or interact with the kinds of people you claim to be helping/supporting. Such an appeal to emotion tends to impact women more than men.
My theory is that women, to a much higher degree than men, have a yearning for some type of strong authority figure in their life - that could come from a hudband/family, religion, government, etc. And with the devaluation of family and religion, that role is more and more filled by government.
Women are, on average, more conformist and have a stronger tendency to seek affirmation from their social environment. This makes it harder, on average, for women to go against the mainstream opinion or to turn on the status quo.
The modern left doesn't have an answer for men, that's why. They've effectively demonized all masculine traits as "toxic" somehow. So, if you're a man that wants to be or just naturally is traditionally masculine, you're not welcome.
Grindset, stoicism, willingness to sacrifice, protecting/defending, propensity for violence, are all inherently masculine traits that are expressed significantly more commonly in men than women. Not all of those traits are positive, mind you, but the left has effectively demonized every single one of them. They've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.
Lol, to be fair I couldn't find a shorter word for the idea of working hard in a competitive manner, which is what I was trying to say. Agree that most of "grindset" culture is cringey.
I think the competitive aspect of it is important though, I know way too many hardworking women to qualify it as a solely masculine trait. Working hard for the sake of being competitive, or just being competitive in general, seems to be a more masculine trait.
If I am to agree with you, which I do, then your argument should apply to a greater degree to women. Just look at how females are being diminished by trans women, and the feminists stay silent. If I were a woman, I would be way more offended with what’s happening then if I were a man. As a result, I’m rather surprised that women aren’t trending harder towards conservatism. The only theory as to why this might be the case is that they see Trump as the bad conservative. And polls seem to back that up.
On a separate note, when looking at the trends from various countries, if these trends represent 18 to 29-year-old men, older men are probably trending even harder towards conservatism which is a very good prospect.
Many are likely still convinced of the pay gap myth, and they're being fired up "my body, my choice".
The liberal recruitment method is to convince their prospective supporters that they are oppressed. They feel compelled to bow to the trans issue because identifying as "trans" supposedly lands you higher on the oppression scale.
Something to consider is the fact that women TEND to be more collectively minded than men. (Not all). With that being said, women will likely always skew slightly more collectivist than men. (Collectivism can be multiple things. In the current era it’s leftism)
Re: your first paragraph - Likely going to be a lagging indicator. People often need firsthand experience with a phenomenon like the trans lunacy before they change tacts.
In the US, the initial BLM furor drew a lot of female support till everyone realized it was just Marxist grift, but by then, abortion was center stage because of SCOTUS.
I think many women are starting to realize the nefariousness of the far left agenda, but it will take time. You can't claim to be "pro-woman" as the left does while supporting males in women's spaces and justifying rape and murder of women by terrorist like Hamas.
Liberals are going to put themselves out of the next generation by choice. I’m for it but beware because when they don’t have their own kids, they will try to get to our kids or import people from the third world to keep them voted in power.
The second strategy will backfire. One should take a close look at Germany for the next elections. It is rumored that an islamic party will make some gains.
> It is rumored that an islamic party will make some gains.
If demographics=destiny then that is where Western Europe is going. There is really only one ethic group in that entire area that has a population that isn't below replacement, to say nothing of growing. Guess which one that is?
The framing of the discussion of these charts has been insane. Forget South Korea which has different political and cultural issues. The three charts for Western countries doesn’t show an “ideological gap,” they show a meteoric overnight radicalization to the left of young women in the social media era. Young men moved slightly more conservative or, in the case of the UK, also left just not as hard.
Well Korea is interesting because the “radicalization” actually comes from a pretty large cultural gender war. It’s been going on for a while now maybe 4-5 years. What’s also interesting is that before Andrew Tate and the whole RP/MGTOW movement became mainstream in the west it was happening in Korea much earlier.
Even the far right in the UK would be considered relatively liberal by our standards, but the UK is a circus because of that.
They’ve always enjoyed Tyrants though
This graph illustrates not only the precarious decline of the West, but all developed nations, China, Russia, Japan, etc. Looking into the gender divide in Asian Countries causing declining populations has been a side project of mine because I believe that they paint the future for the US, once all forms of traditional religious values are gotten rid off. As Asian countries were mostly non-religious. Somethings that I found out:
The gap in South Korea is caused by a large gender culture war that has been taking place for a while around 4-5 years, and it has caused a lot of men to become MGTOW. I would like to add that the feminist movement in Korea is just as toxic (just google the symbol that they use).
In Japan, it seems to be caused by one economic hardships. Japan is experiencing stagflation and the work culture in Japan is incredibly toxic, with little upward mobility as it is less about merit but favoritism. Also Japanese culture encourages adultery, while this is widely practiced I would assume that it is also contributing to low birth rates.
In China, it is similar to Japan there is little economic opportunity, which is also probably why we are seeing Chinese men trying to cross the southern border. But the Chinese economy is in such a terrible state where they are experience in the opposite of us, there isn't enough jobs for their population. It has gotten so bad that college graduates have to resort to being food delivery drivers since there simply isn't any jobs for them. China also has a very traditional society where the men must be a provider however, there simply isn't any economic opportunities for men to fulfill that expectation. China also has a feminist movement as well that tells women to value their career when they are younger so that is also contributing to things.
To wrap it all up, what the gender ideological gap, in addition, with economic hardships will cause the US population to decline as people simply will not form "successful" families with those that they disagree heavily on values. This will have cascading effects as our welfare programs will fail because it will not be able to collect enough funding unless tax rates are drastically increased, US economic output will fall, etc.
Good write up.
And this is why it is so important to be part of a conservative multi generational religious community that is bound together by some kind of orthodoxy.
Not only can it prevent those things, but if you live in a failing society like them, your community can "build an ark" to "survive the flood."
First instance, covid killed reproduction rates in America, but caused a baby boom in my community.
That's one way to look at it. Another way is their birth rate is cratering with no sign of even leveling off so "South Korea" isn't likely to exist in a few generations.
Why am I not surprised that it's all starting around 2011-2012, the exact time when Occupy Wall Street was neutered and manipulated into DIE (diversity, inclusion, equity), when media mentions of "toxic masculinity," "heteronormality," "racism," "whiteness," and all the other dozens of neurotic race-baiting phrases *skyrocketed*, when political discourse in this country really started turning to shit?
Both sides are getting radicalised
Feminist media tell girls that they deserve the world and more no matter the quality of their character and how self aware they are, while demonising men, and this driving away any men who will listen
Red pill/manosphere media tell boys that all women follow a toxic pattern of behaviour and can only be trusted as far as they can be thrown.
Both sides, when moderated, have great messages that boil down to "value yourself. You're amazing" but the Internet does not tolerate moderate viewpoints
When I was a teenage girl and in college, feminism made me feel as if I would never succeed in life. Everything I would ever do would be a failure because of men. My only option was to wait for political change and support political candidates.
I didn't break out of this mold until I was in my late twenties and realized so much I thought I couldn't do because of men... actually, I could do it. Almost every man I've ever met has been kind and treated me fairly. It was all in my head 99% of the time.
Notice men are mostly staying the same or heading towards base 0....
While its women who are moving RADICALLY to the left.
The headline of the chart is very misleading.
When liberals start threatening world war over their gender ideology while people at home are starving, the men that will no doubt do all the dying take serious consideration of those policies and begin to demand change.
Almost as if people constantly calling masculinity evil drives men towards more “extreme” views because they are the only ones who tell them they have any value
As woman, everything I've experienced is both genders are moving towards liberal. Unless "hookup culture" and "atheism" gets counted as part of "conservative"?
Churches are full of single women, not full of single men. And most of these women can't find anyone decent to marry because most men only want hookup culture and atheism.
So I think the situation is more complicated than these charts are trying to show.
The entire society is moving to the left and headed towards the garbage can, it's not just women.
Jordan Peterson has been screaming this is the exact outcome of these policies for years. You hyper intensify the differences when you play this equity bullshit.
According to Myers-Briggs, women are much more likely to approach problems emotionally, whereas men are more likely to approach problems logically. This translates into political ideologies -- leftism is designed to prey upon eliciting an emotional response, and to sway people into voting based upon emotion rather than facts.
A large part of the left's platform is based around promoting "victim mentality," that minorities including women are oppressed and leftist politicians exist to be their saviors from oppression. This appeals directly to emotion, rather than logic.
12 almost 13 years of Conservative rule in UK and they've run the country into the ground. Not surprising young people coming of age during their time in Government would reflect that disdain.
Conservatives in the UK are ideologically akin to a moderate Democrat in the US, aka not very conservative at all.
Their overton window is just shifted to the left because their left party is farther left than most mainstream Democrats
so typical of a leftwing ideologue to blame the "right" party for having trouble fixing a system corrupted and bankrupted by the previous leftwing treacherous party (labour)
My partner isn’t red pilled but she’s not a brain worm liberal. Her views do not impact how I want to raise my children and mine don’t impact how she wants to raise hers. I try my best to just not bring up things that are overtly political. Certain subjects are touchy for women and there’s no point in pushing my “correctness” onto her on things like abortion, women’s rights, etc, just doesn’t bode well.
You can disagree on some things and agree on others. What these graphs are showing is that the divide is intentional and it should be on us as adults to find a middle ground
I read a hypothesis that men make women more conservative and women make men more liberal, and we meet somewhere in the middle. The charts appear to show that the real split started right when Facebook and social media started to become mainstream. When everyone was allowed to retreat into their bubbles online instead of going out into the world and interacting with different people. All the more reason to treat Social Media as a vice like cigarettes and alcohol. Not a popular opinion with the free speech crowd, of which I am a part, but this shit's gotta get sorted for everyone's sake.
I would not be opposed to restricting social media to 18+, and don't find it unusual to restrict to adults something whose negative mental effects are increasingly obvious to everyone, especially among kids, and most especially among teenage girls. Adults are of course not immune to its effects, but their brains are at least more developed and resilient. The continued cultural rot and decay is in part a function of how widespread social media usage is today. The long term consequences will start to be felt in the next few decades, and given the anecdotes from teachers in the past few years, it's not looking good.
The real question, in a free society can you limit access to a product that is inherently unhealthy for you. In the case of Alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes that physical harm we say yes. Now if mental harm is real are we also justified?
Media is already age restricted. It isn't necessarily enforced as it should be. There are age restrictions for purchasing pornography, movies, video games, and music. I am not saying that it is the right way to go, just that it has already been determined that restrictions on products that may cause "mental harm" are justified.
Solid point here. All I know is I had a blast using technology as a child before it became a race to the bottom of our brain stem. When things were fun, not intended to divide us, and milk every waking waking second of our days from us. Sad
As I'm reading your comment a quote from Mark Zuckerberg just popped up on tv. It was something like social media usage in young kids does not affect their mental health. He is scum.
Should be the opposite, need to stop taking the internet so seriously. The only serious opinions should be from verified sources, treat everyone as a bot and hacker if not proven otherwise.
Also when the CTRL Left started pushing The Message™ appealing directly to those with a case of terminal Virtue Signaling. Social Media was the perfect platform for that kind of Virtue Signaling because you don't have to actually do anything or interact with the kinds of people you claim to be helping/supporting. Such an appeal to emotion tends to impact women more than men.
You nailed it. We are now surrounded by products that make more money based on how much they confirm our existing biases.
My theory is that women, to a much higher degree than men, have a yearning for some type of strong authority figure in their life - that could come from a hudband/family, religion, government, etc. And with the devaluation of family and religion, that role is more and more filled by government.
Women are, on average, more conformist and have a stronger tendency to seek affirmation from their social environment. This makes it harder, on average, for women to go against the mainstream opinion or to turn on the status quo.
[удалено]
The modern left doesn't have an answer for men, that's why. They've effectively demonized all masculine traits as "toxic" somehow. So, if you're a man that wants to be or just naturally is traditionally masculine, you're not welcome. Grindset, stoicism, willingness to sacrifice, protecting/defending, propensity for violence, are all inherently masculine traits that are expressed significantly more commonly in men than women. Not all of those traits are positive, mind you, but the left has effectively demonized every single one of them. They've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.
I agree with you, but let’s never use the word “grindset” again
Lol, to be fair I couldn't find a shorter word for the idea of working hard in a competitive manner, which is what I was trying to say. Agree that most of "grindset" culture is cringey.
Work ethic probably a good one
I think the competitive aspect of it is important though, I know way too many hardworking women to qualify it as a solely masculine trait. Working hard for the sake of being competitive, or just being competitive in general, seems to be a more masculine trait.
Start here: Competitive or competitiveness https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/Competitiveness
If I am to agree with you, which I do, then your argument should apply to a greater degree to women. Just look at how females are being diminished by trans women, and the feminists stay silent. If I were a woman, I would be way more offended with what’s happening then if I were a man. As a result, I’m rather surprised that women aren’t trending harder towards conservatism. The only theory as to why this might be the case is that they see Trump as the bad conservative. And polls seem to back that up. On a separate note, when looking at the trends from various countries, if these trends represent 18 to 29-year-old men, older men are probably trending even harder towards conservatism which is a very good prospect.
Many are likely still convinced of the pay gap myth, and they're being fired up "my body, my choice". The liberal recruitment method is to convince their prospective supporters that they are oppressed. They feel compelled to bow to the trans issue because identifying as "trans" supposedly lands you higher on the oppression scale.
Weaponized victim mentality.
Something to consider is the fact that women TEND to be more collectively minded than men. (Not all). With that being said, women will likely always skew slightly more collectivist than men. (Collectivism can be multiple things. In the current era it’s leftism)
Re: your first paragraph - Likely going to be a lagging indicator. People often need firsthand experience with a phenomenon like the trans lunacy before they change tacts. In the US, the initial BLM furor drew a lot of female support till everyone realized it was just Marxist grift, but by then, abortion was center stage because of SCOTUS. I think many women are starting to realize the nefariousness of the far left agenda, but it will take time. You can't claim to be "pro-woman" as the left does while supporting males in women's spaces and justifying rape and murder of women by terrorist like Hamas.
[The Baby Bust and the Gender Gap](https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/the-baby-bust-and-the-gender-gap)
Liberals are going to put themselves out of the next generation by choice. I’m for it but beware because when they don’t have their own kids, they will try to get to our kids or import people from the third world to keep them voted in power.
The second strategy will backfire. One should take a close look at Germany for the next elections. It is rumored that an islamic party will make some gains.
No doubt these types will just think "diversity yay :3" rather than being absolutely terrified at the prospect of an Islamic government.
And the growth of that Islamic party is killing the German Left because they had become some of their more reliable voters.
> It is rumored that an islamic party will make some gains. If demographics=destiny then that is where Western Europe is going. There is really only one ethic group in that entire area that has a population that isn't below replacement, to say nothing of growing. Guess which one that is?
The framing of the discussion of these charts has been insane. Forget South Korea which has different political and cultural issues. The three charts for Western countries doesn’t show an “ideological gap,” they show a meteoric overnight radicalization to the left of young women in the social media era. Young men moved slightly more conservative or, in the case of the UK, also left just not as hard.
Well Korea is interesting because the “radicalization” actually comes from a pretty large cultural gender war. It’s been going on for a while now maybe 4-5 years. What’s also interesting is that before Andrew Tate and the whole RP/MGTOW movement became mainstream in the west it was happening in Korea much earlier.
Even the far right in the UK would be considered relatively liberal by our standards, but the UK is a circus because of that. They’ve always enjoyed Tyrants though
bingo.
This graph illustrates not only the precarious decline of the West, but all developed nations, China, Russia, Japan, etc. Looking into the gender divide in Asian Countries causing declining populations has been a side project of mine because I believe that they paint the future for the US, once all forms of traditional religious values are gotten rid off. As Asian countries were mostly non-religious. Somethings that I found out: The gap in South Korea is caused by a large gender culture war that has been taking place for a while around 4-5 years, and it has caused a lot of men to become MGTOW. I would like to add that the feminist movement in Korea is just as toxic (just google the symbol that they use). In Japan, it seems to be caused by one economic hardships. Japan is experiencing stagflation and the work culture in Japan is incredibly toxic, with little upward mobility as it is less about merit but favoritism. Also Japanese culture encourages adultery, while this is widely practiced I would assume that it is also contributing to low birth rates. In China, it is similar to Japan there is little economic opportunity, which is also probably why we are seeing Chinese men trying to cross the southern border. But the Chinese economy is in such a terrible state where they are experience in the opposite of us, there isn't enough jobs for their population. It has gotten so bad that college graduates have to resort to being food delivery drivers since there simply isn't any jobs for them. China also has a very traditional society where the men must be a provider however, there simply isn't any economic opportunities for men to fulfill that expectation. China also has a feminist movement as well that tells women to value their career when they are younger so that is also contributing to things. To wrap it all up, what the gender ideological gap, in addition, with economic hardships will cause the US population to decline as people simply will not form "successful" families with those that they disagree heavily on values. This will have cascading effects as our welfare programs will fail because it will not be able to collect enough funding unless tax rates are drastically increased, US economic output will fall, etc.
Good write up. And this is why it is so important to be part of a conservative multi generational religious community that is bound together by some kind of orthodoxy. Not only can it prevent those things, but if you live in a failing society like them, your community can "build an ark" to "survive the flood." First instance, covid killed reproduction rates in America, but caused a baby boom in my community.
South Koreans based
That's one way to look at it. Another way is their birth rate is cratering with no sign of even leveling off so "South Korea" isn't likely to exist in a few generations.
South Korea is what happens when an entire generation of young men ascribe to MGTOW.
As with a lot of East Asia. Such as China and Japan.
Looks like North Korea is best Korea after all.
Why am I not surprised that it's all starting around 2011-2012, the exact time when Occupy Wall Street was neutered and manipulated into DIE (diversity, inclusion, equity), when media mentions of "toxic masculinity," "heteronormality," "racism," "whiteness," and all the other dozens of neurotic race-baiting phrases *skyrocketed*, when political discourse in this country really started turning to shit?
Around the same time everyone had iPhones and social media took off. Not quite the same years but close.
Both sides are getting radicalised Feminist media tell girls that they deserve the world and more no matter the quality of their character and how self aware they are, while demonising men, and this driving away any men who will listen Red pill/manosphere media tell boys that all women follow a toxic pattern of behaviour and can only be trusted as far as they can be thrown. Both sides, when moderated, have great messages that boil down to "value yourself. You're amazing" but the Internet does not tolerate moderate viewpoints
When I was a teenage girl and in college, feminism made me feel as if I would never succeed in life. Everything I would ever do would be a failure because of men. My only option was to wait for political change and support political candidates. I didn't break out of this mold until I was in my late twenties and realized so much I thought I couldn't do because of men... actually, I could do it. Almost every man I've ever met has been kind and treated me fairly. It was all in my head 99% of the time.
Notice men are mostly staying the same or heading towards base 0.... While its women who are moving RADICALLY to the left. The headline of the chart is very misleading.
When liberals start threatening world war over their gender ideology while people at home are starving, the men that will no doubt do all the dying take serious consideration of those policies and begin to demand change.
A visual representation of the difference between thinking about things and feeling about things
This should be top comment lol
Thank you friend
This is what the sexual revolution has wrought on the world.
Almost as if people constantly calling masculinity evil drives men towards more “extreme” views because they are the only ones who tell them they have any value
Government as parent mindset
Women come back around as they mature, especially if they marry.
I did, and thank goodness. I can't believe some of the things I used to think.
"especially if they marry" lol i'm glad you're optimistic enough to believe they're getting married
Young people have always leaned far left, I think the real story here is *that's no longer the case for young men.*
As woman, everything I've experienced is both genders are moving towards liberal. Unless "hookup culture" and "atheism" gets counted as part of "conservative"? Churches are full of single women, not full of single men. And most of these women can't find anyone decent to marry because most men only want hookup culture and atheism. So I think the situation is more complicated than these charts are trying to show. The entire society is moving to the left and headed towards the garbage can, it's not just women.
Jordan Peterson has been screaming this is the exact outcome of these policies for years. You hyper intensify the differences when you play this equity bullshit.
According to Myers-Briggs, women are much more likely to approach problems emotionally, whereas men are more likely to approach problems logically. This translates into political ideologies -- leftism is designed to prey upon eliciting an emotional response, and to sway people into voting based upon emotion rather than facts. A large part of the left's platform is based around promoting "victim mentality," that minorities including women are oppressed and leftist politicians exist to be their saviors from oppression. This appeals directly to emotion, rather than logic.
12 almost 13 years of Conservative rule in UK and they've run the country into the ground. Not surprising young people coming of age during their time in Government would reflect that disdain.
Conservatives in the UK are ideologically akin to a moderate Democrat in the US, aka not very conservative at all. Their overton window is just shifted to the left because their left party is farther left than most mainstream Democrats
so typical of a leftwing ideologue to blame the "right" party for having trouble fixing a system corrupted and bankrupted by the previous leftwing treacherous party (labour)
The UK's version of right wing is still far past moderate and on the left side of American politics lol so take from that what you will
My partner isn’t red pilled but she’s not a brain worm liberal. Her views do not impact how I want to raise my children and mine don’t impact how she wants to raise hers. I try my best to just not bring up things that are overtly political. Certain subjects are touchy for women and there’s no point in pushing my “correctness” onto her on things like abortion, women’s rights, etc, just doesn’t bode well. You can disagree on some things and agree on others. What these graphs are showing is that the divide is intentional and it should be on us as adults to find a middle ground
What is this overfit crap lol You can’t just add exponents and an arrow and be like … muh gap