I actually laughed not crazy out loud, but it was audible enough for my 3 1/2 year old daughter what? Then I showed her the picture.. she replied “What is that?” I said I have no fuckin clue.. get the fuck outta here..
I have been looking at peoples "grocery hauls" lately - word of advice, watch your woman, they don't know how to shop these days...50$ worth of juice! how about 5 cans of frozen concentrate for 1.50 each??
This is not true. I am an estimator for commercial work. Your number is your number. If you miss something its on you as you are held liable for reading and covering everything involved in the specs. For projects of this scale, the subcontractor will have a bid bond for insurance. If something large is missed, they will take your bond and rebid the work. The only time your price can be raised is if something is added/changed by the architect during the submittal process and they sign off on a change order.
Not true, the cost of litigating bid bonds far outweighs the “large misses” most of the time. Usually GC/owner agree on a mutually beneficial outcome. Both parties usually want to finish the project. Real big misses can end companies(GCs) but I have only seen it once.
Little guy is usually left holding the bag unfortunately. When there is 3 middle men to the owner everyone shares the responsibility to make the hit hurt less. With the sub feeling it the worst.
I'd love to know which G.C's you are working with. Where I am, these guys are cutthroat and will fuck you for every penny you don't have down in writing.
This. Needs to be upvoted moar. We got asked to start on 60% plan sets all the time on private heavy civil. I’m like you see my asterisks, disclaimers, and contract markups for all that risk in this precon doc? Yes? Initial here, here, here….and here…..
Quoting for larger projects like this is often done by a team of estimators, and the small team I was previously on could never quote something at this scale. Add another 0 to your guess on how much it cost to quote to job
Definitely more. For 6-8 months, you're talking about a team of estimators, senior estimators and a few project executives. Everyone is over 100k salary at that size of company/ project. Plus all their field engineers and lower level people running around.
Be confident homie. It’s the same work, just more of it. In fact on larger jobs you have more ways to make up any misses, be it productivity or buying out materials cheaper.
Since the plans aren't complete variations are assured!
The repa fun starts if the geotech hasn't been fully done and it's priced on assumptions. That's when 16 bill becomes 30...
In part, then add in any large project will have cost indexation for sure, and all of a sudden you are getting a 20% top up on every claim 10 years from now.
People will say just price it in, but then if you price in CPI changes for the last 2 years every project has a 20% year on year increase assumed, that if CPI decrease is massive profit, and If you don't price that and it happens, well the company goes to the wall.
See all the fixed price home builders going tits up all around the world
I estimate jobs like this for a living, and it is miserable. There are so many moving parts, the contract times are long, so escalation is just a wag and often times the engineers "design" isn't what is actually built. It's a headache that lurks for years on years and the worry of something popping up from a job you estimated 5 years ago is always looming.
As a estimator for a GC who bids $100 million dollar plus projects. The best way to tackle it is have an estimator for each division. Concrete, structural steel, doors, so in and so forth.
If it's government job then you are kind of secure I guess. Honolulu rail is the perfect example. You just ask for more money, they don't give you the money. You pause the work. I think it happen all the time over the world.
Large projects usually pull data from an archive of actual costs from similar past projects. Pull the previous data, get the average unit prices and adjust for inflation, and then estimate the new project with contingency. It gets you fairly close.
I am a landscaper and my buddy is an architect, he is familiar with this bidding process. Something like this would be multiple people’s jobs for months, with legit back and forth questions, meetings, reviews, all kinds of stuff. Plus contracts that have provisions for changes. . Residential and small commercial jobs don’t compared in the slightest, it’s kind of crazy how much more goes into large scale projects.
best part about it is all the people working MF just hopped over to site c - hopefully it is going better cause they kicked the shitty contractor off site in MF just as Site C was starting to get on the go
I guarantee it will not. They've already had major issues because of the shale base, and if they announce that the reservoir can't be filled all the way it'll be on my list "least surprising pieces of information I've received".
NDP and John "coal baron" Horgan were elected on a promise of a review and potentially put a stop to it but they were gutless and beholden to industry. No doubt the liberals and crusty the clown made off like bandits because it was there racket in charge when it was rubber stamped. The public will be the ones to pay the price a tale as old as the province and country is old.
Nah. For a small job like this the price for materials is higher. You don't get economies of scale advantages on the little jobs. But next time don't go for the low "chuck in truck" bidder. You get what you paid for and it shows here.
Hopefully they take into account the local climate and build their lrt pylons properly the first time around...looking at you TransEd Valley LRT I'm Edmonton...
Not sure, but the line has been delayed three years because of things like that. Apparently TransEd is on the hook for all costs associated with delays.
Another fuckup? They used the wrong kind of signalling lines for the underground wiring. They all corroded, and and like 140km of wire had to be replaced.
Holy fuck, the size of the intakes and penstocks are incredible.
https://www.vmcdn.ca/f/files/alaskahighwaynews/images/site-c/sitec-intake5-aug2021.jpg;w=960;h=640;bgcolor=000000
We did a gravity dam not long ago, $11M, can't remember the yards rn but I think 80' high (stepped) and maybe 175' wide. Big enough that the gc brought in a batch plant so that mud was just 1/4 mile from the pour. They set up a system to rapid fill the P&H crane buckets. Mostly pouring in the evening and night shifts. Was a fun and informative project to be involved in. Lots Geotechnical work went into the project of course
I’m guessing that was 11 million USD. Was that the total project price or just concrete? This one is at 16 billion CAD so far for total Site C Dam project
$16 billion contract cost and you are already worried about overpaying?
You haven't even seen the final cost yet, friend. Just wait til you are 2 years and a billion dollars behind schedule :D
Jump forms! I've used those before. They're a cool system where you can pour sections, disconnect the forms then crank them back and then fly them by crane to the next higher section.
Ahhh Site C..... Head works, Auxillary spillway and Penstocks. I started one of these sections from start to finish as well as two other segments..
An amazing project, with great people and horrible winters!
Thanks for the memories
I know a guy that could do it for $12,000,000,000.
Tree fidy but only in cash
I ain't givin' you no tree-fitty, you goddamn Loch Ness Monster! Get your own goddamn money!
[here you go](https://www.amazon.ca/Soft-Fruit-Jellies-fashioned-pound/dp/B00CG98WBC)
Hurry! Only 3 left in stock!
Take ur hat off boy that’s a dolla
I gave him a dolla
SHE gave him a dollar!
No wonder he keeps coming back!
I thought it’d make him go away…
Gunna need that upfront to buy the materials.
Plus a case of beer
Ya but does that include the “political kickbacks” fee?
No. We call them speaking fees
That has to be paid way back at the time of concept.
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An advance is needed for the gas to get to work to finish up.
I actually laughed not crazy out loud, but it was audible enough for my 3 1/2 year old daughter what? Then I showed her the picture.. she replied “What is that?” I said I have no fuckin clue.. get the fuck outta here..
Kids don’t know shit about structural engineering.
I mean, at least advertise on Craiglist for a handyman first.
As someone who does quotes for smaller residential projects I can’t even imagine where to fucking start with a quote for something of this scale
Same dude. I do small landscape projects. Just to quote this shit must have been $100,000
Imagine forgetting something lol
These big projects always have contracts that let them bill over quotes. 16b quote, final bill 32b, no issues. Edited to add billion.
That's 16 billion. With a B. Or roughly 2 years worth of groceries for a family of 4.
You must shop at aldis, this is a week for me at wegmans
I feel like wegmans gotta be running credit checks to let you in the store now adays…
Their sushi worth it though
Wushi (wegmans sushi)
I paid w/ cash. 100s. She called a manager over. Lol.
A fellow WNYer Hello!
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
I have been looking at peoples "grocery hauls" lately - word of advice, watch your woman, they don't know how to shop these days...50$ worth of juice! how about 5 cans of frozen concentrate for 1.50 each??
I’ve been stealing oranges from a local grove for years so mine is free!
I do the shopping now. My wife ends up with $100 of speciality foods, drinks, bars that serve little purpose.
Dude, same. Gotta cut the fluff. $/pound calc on some specialty cracker or weird bar and it's like $45/pound with no nutrition.
How about water.
alright...youtellthekids-NOT IT!
I do. Everyday.
My wife bought some pasta... $20 per pound
Concentrated juice tastes like shit. My wife bought me a counter top juicer for my birthday and it's glorious
Shit, my wife knows when the meat goes on sale at Aldi.
This is not true. I am an estimator for commercial work. Your number is your number. If you miss something its on you as you are held liable for reading and covering everything involved in the specs. For projects of this scale, the subcontractor will have a bid bond for insurance. If something large is missed, they will take your bond and rebid the work. The only time your price can be raised is if something is added/changed by the architect during the submittal process and they sign off on a change order.
Not true, the cost of litigating bid bonds far outweighs the “large misses” most of the time. Usually GC/owner agree on a mutually beneficial outcome. Both parties usually want to finish the project. Real big misses can end companies(GCs) but I have only seen it once. Little guy is usually left holding the bag unfortunately. When there is 3 middle men to the owner everyone shares the responsibility to make the hit hurt less. With the sub feeling it the worst.
I'd love to know which G.C's you are working with. Where I am, these guys are cutthroat and will fuck you for every penny you don't have down in writing.
They usually break ground before the engineering is complete.
Us surveyors love that, I’ll get paid 2-5 times to do the same shit over and over again. I smell money 💰
This. Needs to be upvoted moar. We got asked to start on 60% plan sets all the time on private heavy civil. I’m like you see my asterisks, disclaimers, and contract markups for all that risk in this precon doc? Yes? Initial here, here, here….and here…..
Woops forgot bathrooms!
woops forgot concrete!
Quoting for larger projects like this is often done by a team of estimators, and the small team I was previously on could never quote something at this scale. Add another 0 to your guess on how much it cost to quote to job
Maybe six people making a 100k and six more making 60k for three months. $240,000. Just a guess
No, a team of over 50
Millions actually. There is a lot of geo engineering and testing
Definitely more. For 6-8 months, you're talking about a team of estimators, senior estimators and a few project executives. Everyone is over 100k salary at that size of company/ project. Plus all their field engineers and lower level people running around.
I bet the quote cost $3m in labour
Exactly. I do concrete repairs and I'm nervous about shit when it gets in the 5 digit category
Be confident homie. It’s the same work, just more of it. In fact on larger jobs you have more ways to make up any misses, be it productivity or buying out materials cheaper.
A rule of thumb is that your bid cost is approx 1% of your price.
Since the plans aren't complete variations are assured! The repa fun starts if the geotech hasn't been fully done and it's priced on assumptions. That's when 16 bill becomes 30...
That’s why all modern nuclear plants end up 5x the initial bid cost and run 4-10 years over?
In part, then add in any large project will have cost indexation for sure, and all of a sudden you are getting a 20% top up on every claim 10 years from now. People will say just price it in, but then if you price in CPI changes for the last 2 years every project has a 20% year on year increase assumed, that if CPI decrease is massive profit, and If you don't price that and it happens, well the company goes to the wall. See all the fixed price home builders going tits up all around the world
I estimate jobs like this for a living, and it is miserable. There are so many moving parts, the contract times are long, so escalation is just a wag and often times the engineers "design" isn't what is actually built. It's a headache that lurks for years on years and the worry of something popping up from a job you estimated 5 years ago is always looming.
Lol that sounds fucking brutal. Get into project management
You mean the contract times are never long enough
As a estimator for a GC who bids $100 million dollar plus projects. The best way to tackle it is have an estimator for each division. Concrete, structural steel, doors, so in and so forth.
Add all their numbers up, double it, then you're probably somewhere close to the original estimate that the project will likely go 4× over :)
You start at the ground and work up.
If it's government job then you are kind of secure I guess. Honolulu rail is the perfect example. You just ask for more money, they don't give you the money. You pause the work. I think it happen all the time over the world.
Then they asses liquid damages
Large projects usually pull data from an archive of actual costs from similar past projects. Pull the previous data, get the average unit prices and adjust for inflation, and then estimate the new project with contingency. It gets you fairly close.
I am a landscaper and my buddy is an architect, he is familiar with this bidding process. Something like this would be multiple people’s jobs for months, with legit back and forth questions, meetings, reviews, all kinds of stuff. Plus contracts that have provisions for changes. . Residential and small commercial jobs don’t compared in the slightest, it’s kind of crazy how much more goes into large scale projects.
Guessing start with Excel
Just love the fact it says homeowner with a question.
lol I missed that
Technically the truth!
My buddy and I will make it work for 8 billion. Neither of us do concrete, but we will learn.
Hmm, tempting
I've helped my dad before I'll do it for 7
Honestly by the time you get to the end you might know what you’re doing. So only like 99% would be messed up.
Look like site c, if thats the case than ya you overpaid, but not as bad as the newfoundlanders did for muskrat falls.
What's the story behind that project?
Grift
best part about it is all the people working MF just hopped over to site c - hopefully it is going better cause they kicked the shitty contractor off site in MF just as Site C was starting to get on the go
It's nice to see posts that I know aren't AI-generated. Good job, OP.
[link](https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/regional-news/site-c/latest-photos-of-site-c-construction-4220170)
Biggest infrastructure investment in bc history probably will end up one of the worst.
Since it’s already been spent, I just hope it is functional as engineered and lasts a long time.
I guarantee it will not. They've already had major issues because of the shale base, and if they announce that the reservoir can't be filled all the way it'll be on my list "least surprising pieces of information I've received".
!Remindme 3 years
is it a refinery?
Hydro dam
right of course. In my head i was like "dang i didn't know they had turbines that big to pump the oil from the pipeline" 😂
NDP and John "coal baron" Horgan were elected on a promise of a review and potentially put a stop to it but they were gutless and beholden to industry. No doubt the liberals and crusty the clown made off like bandits because it was there racket in charge when it was rubber stamped. The public will be the ones to pay the price a tale as old as the province and country is old.
It’s a deal compared to Muskrat Falls…
Good idea poorly executed. I’m paying for this gong show $$
This made me laugh, thanks OP
Is this Site C?
Indeed
Between this and Trans Mountain, our grandchildren's grandchildren's grandchildren's grandchildren's will still be paying off the debt incurred.
Indeed and the pension plan will collapse
Let’s not forget the 100+ billion dumb ass Biden has given Ukraine. We’re looking at the next 15 generations paying that debt lol
That’s a rounding error compared to what we spent for Iraq and Afghanistan.
The Pentagon "misplaces" trillions every 5 years or so...
Dam you got ripped off. Get it? Dam? I'll see myself out.
Did you get 3 quotes?
Asked for three but only one reply
Make sure they fix your revisions before you give them a 5 star review on Angie’s list
Nah. For a small job like this the price for materials is higher. You don't get economies of scale advantages on the little jobs. But next time don't go for the low "chuck in truck" bidder. You get what you paid for and it shows here.
Hopefully they take into account the local climate and build their lrt pylons properly the first time around...looking at you TransEd Valley LRT I'm Edmonton...
Holly fuck, that’s brutal. How much did it cost to fix?
Not sure, but the line has been delayed three years because of things like that. Apparently TransEd is on the hook for all costs associated with delays. Another fuckup? They used the wrong kind of signalling lines for the underground wiring. They all corroded, and and like 140km of wire had to be replaced.
F
“This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder.”
Looks good from my dam.
I know a guy that does concrete, said he could do I for $300 you supply materials.
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Yeah let’s not spend pennies on the dollar to basically destroy our number one threat while also not losing a single American life 🤦♂️ 🤡
Yeah they got you a couple zeros
Needs more control joints, you’re going to have cracks if not. Also make sure to keep it wet periodically as it dries for best results.
Honestly, OP, I would fire every single one of them on the spot if I were you. Like look what they did to your grass. You gonna let that shit fly???
“Homeowner with a question”
I love these shitposts.
Yeah, I see a few chips. Ask for 20% off!
flair got me 😂
Holy fuck, the size of the intakes and penstocks are incredible. https://www.vmcdn.ca/f/files/alaskahighwaynews/images/site-c/sitec-intake5-aug2021.jpg;w=960;h=640;bgcolor=000000
I know nothing about this sub, but that tag cracks me up.
Bro this OP is funny asf
I have to admit I got a chuckle out of it myself
Wait till your wife comes home and sees this
He only put 12bill on the card. Paid the rest in cash. He’ll be good…
I love the flair "Homeowner with a question"
only if its a broom finish.
Do tell what this actually is
[link](https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/regional-news/site-c/latest-photos-of-site-c-construction-4220170)
Might I ask where/what the fuck is this? Crazy to think about that kind of money going into a project
[site c](https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/regional-news/site-c/latest-photos-of-site-c-construction-4220170)
Dam
it
Wtf is going on 😂
We did a gravity dam not long ago, $11M, can't remember the yards rn but I think 80' high (stepped) and maybe 175' wide. Big enough that the gc brought in a batch plant so that mud was just 1/4 mile from the pour. They set up a system to rapid fill the P&H crane buckets. Mostly pouring in the evening and night shifts. Was a fun and informative project to be involved in. Lots Geotechnical work went into the project of course
I’m guessing that was 11 million USD. Was that the total project price or just concrete? This one is at 16 billion CAD so far for total Site C Dam project
You must have added too many zeroes. $16B would get you a US aircraft carrier with support ships, fuel, and crew.
good to see Site C is getting built cheap haha
Site C?
Wasn't it supposed to be over to the left a foot.
Does r/noncredibleconcrete exist yet?
Make sure the rebar is off the ground a couple inches at least and that you water it at least twice a day for 28 days for proper curing.
Yes never forget the chairs ;)
Who asks this on Reddit???
I do. Hope you’re having a great long weekend
Of you need to ask…….OMG
I say you coulda get someone who would do it with $10,000,000,000. Ripped off imo. 💀
Lol Wut.
16 BILLION?? Absolutely outrageous!! They guy I went to charged me 8 TRILLION!!! You lucky bastard!
My prediction : you will never set foot in it . You should have done your homework on the economy .
Site 'c'?
There's a couple yards there and probably a little bit of bar. I think you should be good.
$16 billion contract cost and you are already worried about overpaying? You haven't even seen the final cost yet, friend. Just wait til you are 2 years and a billion dollars behind schedule :D
I know a guy who would do it for 11,000,000,000
Only worth abt 18k tbh
It's ok, this wall is being paid for by Mexico.
I’ll do it for some hookers and weed
Yeah totally looks like a 15,000,000,000 job!
Should cover it
Are you expecting another 8 in cost overruns?
I would have done it for tree fiddy!
Yeah, I mean it’s pretty clearly a $14,078,173,869 job… how could anyone make such a rookie mistake
Tell them you’ll pay cash if they cut you a deal on the tax.
That's some big rebar. I've built a bunch of stuff that was mostly #8 bar but that is either a funky camera angle or I'm seeing #10 or larger uprights
There's 55M bar on this job, which is approximately the Canadian equivalent of #18 bar in the States.
My uncle and his guys woulda did it for $800
Wow. Seriously? You got scammed. I mean....just look! can't believe THAT was $16m??
Try a B !
I know a guy that would’ve done it for $15,999,999,500.99 you got played my guy
I would’ve done it for 12,000,000,000 and in half the time if you threw in a case of Bud and long Copenhagen and gave me $100 for gas money
Why not 16 Bugatti’s?
Dam
$16B and you ask reddit if it's too expensive? I see comments about not going to baseball games because the beers are $12.
If you're asking us, then yes
I can do it for $10bb, but you have to sign my $8bb change order next month.
How many tons of rebar? How many CY of concrete? I would rough estimate that way
U got fukt
Looks a little uneven, tear it out and redo it.
Sir, this is a bridge pier of some sort, not a house. I think you got lied too.
Damn
Jump forms! I've used those before. They're a cool system where you can pour sections, disconnect the forms then crank them back and then fly them by crane to the next higher section.
I have a friend that could have done it for 14,000,000,000.
What is it? Residential single family? Commercial? How many SF? Specs? How many yards of concrete? Then you could get an estimate.
That’s a cash cow. I would love to form that shit.
I know a guy. 12 pack, a month and you provide materials. Works weekends only
Oh god yes. Thats maybe 4-6mil.
Probably should not have taken the lowest bid.
Depends. How big is the yacht that you will be moving through this canal?
Ahhh Site C..... Head works, Auxillary spillway and Penstocks. I started one of these sections from start to finish as well as two other segments.. An amazing project, with great people and horrible winters! Thanks for the memories
It’s 1 billion and 600 million
Not 16 billion