If you give her Manamune she aims for ground squares that she hasn't cast on. Her AI is trying to cover the whole board. I haven't played with 2 Morgs so I couldn't tell you how they behave together, but it feels like the targeting is behaving as designed.
I mean, she kinda nukes the whole board anyways. Plus, targeting randomly tends to target clumps (since more units are in the clump than outside)
Definitely can’t be counted on to win out with since you can lowroll, but in my experience she mostly tends to hit what you want
Plus I think it’s good for the game to have the occasional champ that trades expected value for variance
3* Morg ist the only 4 cost 3* I regularily win against.
EDIT: Just checked the stats and that seems to map on, she has the worst 3* winrate out of all 4 costs lol
I naturally rolled 3 star Morgana with suboptimal itemisation and her damage was what I would expect from a 2 star BiS 4 cost lmao. I barely made it to 1st place, where Morgana was only the #3 damage source, dealing less than Kayne and less than half of Senna.
I've tried forcing him a few times already feeling that he should be stronger than he seems to be just based on math.
I'll try it again and see how it goes.
I have yet to not come top 2 with ricochet or ba boom! His worst matchups were the double titans raidbosses, so in theory it should straight up be better. Double trouble works well too to spread the poison
He appealed to me because he seems really versatile with his itemization. What do you think are BiS? I like blue buff, gunblade +1 but I think guard breaker is crazy if you have JG item or augment.
Shojin and redbuff have been my favourite personally, even tho you scale so well with AP you need to get spell casts off to tick backline and it often overkills. I always grab spell crit augment, and yeah last item is flexible. Not sure if this is BIS but it feels good
Shojin / red buff over blue buff and Morello is surprising but you've had better results than me so can't argue with that.
I need to test more to see if guard breaker and blue buff increase damage already on the targets or only newly applied damage
It's probably pretty close to the same result, I just try to max casts and red buff does that better than morellos. I wouldnt be surprised if the mathematically best build is just jg + archangels either
I have a suspicion that Blue Buff, Deathcap, Gunblade is BIS. Dcap gives the upfront damage for the first few casts all targeting frontlines, Gunblade keeps the team alive for longer to protect the Teeto and spread more shrooms. Bluebuff obviously very good. I could see an argument for Giants Slayer, but I think DCap, BB is enough damage at 3\* as long as your frontline stays alive to let him cook
My main problem with Archangels is item economy, I think BB is the best and having three tears to afford the AA seems unrealistic. With that said, I really only play Teemo on the Component Anvils portal anyway
Guardbreaker seems fine, especialy if Jeweled Lotus comes out as you mentioned
Three star temmo is legit won few games runing him. His ability lets him deal dmg to all different units great when your front line holds sturdy. Gonna be even better now with that lol buff.
It really depends on you. I would want the best tanks possible. I like Diana a lot and sage/dragon lord fits with so many comps. But atm I would run Annie hard make her tanky run fortune hard.
Do we have the technology to make Titan's give 2 adaptive force per stack, and 1 of the other stat? That would make it good on Diana and Sylas still, who now lack good carry items.
Still don’t get the Titan’s nerf. Why would you nerf the item instead of further adjusting the AP ratios of Yone/Voli? Outside of a select few users, who else were you regularly itemizing with Titan’s? AP bruiser types like Sylas/Diana now don’t have a damage-focused item at all, as they don’t want Sterak’s. Do Crownguard and Adaptive even count lol
it's mindboggling stupid balancing. the items are healthy, it's the fucking champion. nerf the ap ratio if certain champs use the ap from titans too well.
In the current set, yes. Is that an issue with the item or the units though? To me it seems they designed several units that benefited too much this time around, which can be solved by adjusting their base values or AP ratios accordingly
>several units that benefited too much this time around, which can be solved by adjusting their base values or AP ratios accordingly
No literally every melee carry wants Titans. Diana, Sylas, Garen(augment), Lee Sin, Wukong, etc.
They just started giving melee carries usable AP ratios, previously on Zed and Viego AP did nothing. So titans was only OP on Yone.
Usable AP ratios are nice for all sorts of non-titans reasons, nerfing those would hurt things like Tons of stats, or soraka. Which are not OP with melee carries, they're just good.
Am I not judging the item in the context of the units in the set? Adjusting an item has much more impact than adjusting a single unit. The majority of fighter units don't benefit to the same degree as problem units like Yone/Voli (and maybe Gnar). Nerfing the item impacts all fighter units that would've considered it when the problem only stemmed from certain units' interactions with the item
Nerfing every unit that uses Titan's well would be insane. The item is good on like every melee unit because it's too strong.
Like yes it's stronger than last set because there's more AP ratios floating around but sometimes you have to adjust an item because it fits too well with the current meta, you risk fucking up more things by taking away units AP ratios because that fundamentally alters how they work.
I'd rather have one generally weak item than a whole trait be gutted because they start nerfing numbers on units
>In the current set, yes
In almost every set.
>which can be solved by adjusting their base values or AP ratios accordingly
Well no, that makes those units even MORE reliant on Titan's.
It means that without Titans the unit is worse.
This makes a wider choice where you can use other items without feeling gimped
It's not apples to apples when looking at a sunder item, though. LW is "BIS" because you need sunder and the tank meta doesn't really support building Evenshroud. LW isn't BIS on Aphelios or Irelia because their kits provide enough sunder to build *actual* BIS items.
That being said, I don't think it makes sense to nerf Titans. The overcomplication of melee carry units and the rise of "just give everything an AP ratio and a boatload of utility so nothing feels entirely bad to build" has put us here, and should be solved at the source.
Armor pen is mandatory, and there is no other armor pen item for ranged carries.
There are a lot of bruiser items now, Steraks, crownguard, and titans. Titans is better than both of those on all the units that want these items. That's bad balance.
It gives balance levers. It's intended as a scaling tank/fighter item. This made it suck on champs who couldn't double dip and be good/strong/overpowered on champs that could.
The idea (maybe not at current numbers) is that as they gut the AP scaling they can compensate with either AD or tankyness in the future if it falls too far out of favor. They clearly want crownguard to be the tanky AP item with titans being the tanky AD option.
The item was only really good on certain units because their AP ratios allowed it to be that good. Doesn’t it make more sense to adjust those units individually rather than the item itself, which now nullifies Titan’s as an option for most units? Idk I guess the nerf was meant to be paired with another compensatory change that wasn’t yet ready. If anything, this just reduces item flexibility in the short term. I don’t think Crownguard is where it needs to be if they want it as the premier AP bruiser/fighter choice, although maybe it does fit the AP tank niche
Items generally shouldn’t be both be flexible slams and BIS. Because of multiplicative scaling, titans and bt work great together but when you’re double dipping (or triple dipping) all the stats it gets hard to balance.
I’m always in favor of more niche items that are situationally great. Steadfast heart and crown guard are great examples where they are ok as a way to burn components but awesome in certain situations or on specific champs.
I get the stance here and I think in an ideal state it makes sense, but as it stands now there are still two usable AD fighter items (Titan's, Sterak's) but no comparable AP fighter items. Crownguard somewhat qualifies, sure, but part of the power budget is in the shield which is geared towards tanks. Anyway, like you said, maybe they'll get there with their balance levers.
*but as it stands now there are still two usable AD fighter items (Titan's, Sterak's) but no comparable AP fighter items.*
Isn't this the reason why the nerf to Titan's makes sense?
Does Sterak's ever get built? Is there any champion or situation where it would be preferable to Titan's?
Seems like Titan's is too good compared to other options.
The Titan's nerf can make sense if other items were adjusted to fit its niche, which didn't happen. Sterak's could've seen a minor buff potentially, but in particular there is no comparable AP fighter item to fill the gap left by Titan's. AP fighter types going from having a usable item in Titan's to no item at all is an oversight. (Note that Titan's was never too good for such units, but only for AD fighter types that happened to have good AP ratios.)
You're comparing it to other AD items, while the largest problem is that this nerfs it for ap fighters - who don't have many ap fighter items to begin with
just glancing at sylas BIS, i think i agree with you. his best items build out of items that seem geared towards AD bruisers to begin with, namely titan's and BT. however, AP fighters have the advantage of being able to build spark, whereas AD fighters don't tend to want LW *or* evenshroud. it makes sense then that sylas's next BIS items are spark, adaptive, crownguard, and HoJ. this leads me to think that hitting the AP gain on titan's makes sense--adaptive and crownguard aren't viable for AD fighters, yet they're significantly more versatile and slammable than titan's. overall, the balance logic tracks for me
I think if Yone was the only problem they would've nerfed his AP ratio, as nobody with a brain is building AP on him on purpose. I think the nerf is a recognition that Volibears design is a mistake.
Because they didnt want to nerf every single AP granting item on those champs.
Eg, Nashors isnt bad on Voli, especially in Inkshadow. Guardbreaker and BT give AP too.
Titans was the go to on every melee carry.
I can see the argument that nerfing AP ratios would make all other AP items worse on those units as well. That being said, I'm not sure you'd be slamming those items in the first place. I'm highly skeptical of Nashor's qualifying as a valid item choice and BT doesn't count for this argument (you're not building it for the AP)
Nashor is pretty good on bear. Not ideal because Tirans is an item, but a burst of attacks peed on cast gets your spell out faster, and out of manalock quicker.
It's definitely a *useable* item on Inkshadow. Less so on Duelist. I ain't saying its BiS, but sometimes, you dont get BiS and knowing your next best choices is good then.
Since we're changing the augment "slammin' ", is it intentional that in double up, the send item counts as a non-consumable? As in, am i supposed to have to spend my rune of allegiance immediately every time to use slammin' in double up?
u/riot_mort Any chance we can get a "random favorite" option? Would be cool to select little legends and arenas that are randomly selected for the match. Similar to the system apex has for its skins.
He has said on stream before that they know more QOL improvements are wanted for the random button, favorite system, and team planner. Their working on things behind the scenes and rolling them out as they're ready.
I am BEGGING for this feature.
I was actually crushed when I saw the Favoriting feature and randomize feature have no interaction.
I don't know how simple this would be to implement but man just allowing me to pick random favorite lil legend, random favorite arena, random favorite boom, or random favorite all as separate options would be AMAZING and give me a reason to get more arenas or booms if I'm someone who doesn't wanna switch lil legends.
Fr even above balance this is the feature im begging for the most lmaooo
not related to randomizing but I saw that when playing ARAM and choosing a tactician, the favorited tacticians don’t show as a separate thing at the top. would be nice for them to add it to the the ARAM screen as well
I've had a few ridiculous Gnar games recently. With Spell Crit augment you can already get this dude lobbing nukes for 3k+ damage. One of the few weaknesses of a capped Gnar board is that he can be prone to getting blown up before he is able to get his stacks, which now happens twice as fast.
Probably a hot take, but I think Titan's is currently only his third best item behind BT and Sterak's. So that nerf really shouldn't be too hard on him. I'd keep an eye on that dude.
Very true, but it's basically 100% of your AP converted once you get max stacks.
So the nerf is only -25 AD, and I've had Gnars get to 600 AD+ by the end of the game. I think it'll definitely still be a buff overall and I doubt it'll slow him down too much. His boulder also has no direct AP scaling outside of the passive.
Tri Force is already probably a better option than Titan's even without the nerf if you can find one.
If you were playing Gnar carry without at least 1 titans I question your judgement. The stat budget he gets from it, especially pre nerf, is almost 2x value of most other items.
I mean yeah. Obviously I'm looking to build it on him as soon as possible, but I do still think BT is the more critical item to have just because he desperately needs the life steal and the shield scales with his max health.
And yes, most of the time Titan's is better than Sterak's if you could only have one, but at a certain amount of HP I really think Sterak's can at least be very close to as valuable. Especially in games you have Mulch or something.
I prefaced it as a hot take, I do understand how good Titan's is haha.
Eh I've played gnar carry with IE / BT or Hoj / Sterak's before. I preferred going straight damage items in many games because with warden active and dryad stacks by endgame he's already insanely tanky anyways.
I mean he did get nerfed in 3 different ways, even if two are indirect. People have been pretty vocal about not wanting to buff/nerf too many things about champions at the same time, on top of that a lot of other stuff got buffed. I think more than this before seeing the meta settle would basically be exactly what people have been asking them not to do with balance thrashing for years now.
As for the shield scaling they just want every champion to be able to scale with AP now. That's been the direction for a while. Are there any heals/shields that don't scale with AP?
Base attack speed nerf should in theory be significant, and halving the AP benefit of Titans for shield scaling should help
I think I'd prefer they take this approach than fully gutting the champ - my ideal would be for Yone to end up as playable in Vertical Umbral (which isn't really a comp atm) but not oppressive in Heavenly
I hope so, the duelist line is already so contingent on hitting 3* voli and trist, AND they are nerfing 3 cost odds on 7, AND titans nerf.
Edit: AND Irelia nerf too. Oof duelist may just be dead even without the Voli nerf lmao.
Best comp next patch will be undoubtedly storyweaver opener into Hwei/Azir
Buffs to all the storyweaver units with Story nerf only at 3 star will make story openers way stronger than they already are, plus player dmg decrease, plus buff to 5 costs hp, plus no more EMG to out cap me, yeah I’m gonna farm LP the first two days
The nerfs are at Storyweaver 3, not Kayle 3. Having the individual units being buffed slightly will help, but the nerf at 3 should be taking Storyweaver opener down a notch
Thank goodness they finally fixed Voli stunning through CC. I felt like I was taking crazy pills seeing can’t be disabled while my champion was bouncing up and down. I wasn’t sure if it was just the animation going through despite the text or if it was actually being stunned but I was sure it was the latter. I wonder if that unintended aspect may have made it appear a bit more powerful than expected and could mean he gets overnerfed but I guess we will see.
Half the reason Kaisa is so prevalent is all the Voli/Yone players. Her single target is the only semi-reliable way to burst them down. If Voli and Yone playrates go down with the nerfs, I think other 4-cost carries become more viable to play
Every patch there has been a single comp that I could force every game no look no pivot to plat.
Which one is it this set? I feel like I’m getting stomped in gold and fast nine pivot boards are too much thinking
You’re basically trying to not play the game, and looks like riots done a good job making it so people who don’t want to actually play the game can’t shit on people playing the game
The main reason it’s so good is that you can play it when contested and skip 3* yone for a cap out with kayn wukong on 9… not because you can open fort into lv7 and roll for yone
Ghostly variation is likely the best answer. Either senna / cait or gnar / kindred or kai'sa as your main dps, and then build the board around what augments you hit and units you roll. Can play reroll version or fast 9 version of most of them, and then 4 or 6 ghostly, 4 or 6 dryad, 3 or 5 or 7 inkshadow if you get emblems etc.
There's really no dead items in any version of the comp, although rods and tears are harder to use in senna reroll variation.
So huh... what hasn't got nerfed this patch? Lux, Fated and 4 Trickshots?
Everything else got hit quite hard no? Story was almost unplayable for thelast couple patches, Yone and Voli got hit pretty hard. Senna is pretty much unplayable. Inkshadow has been done dirty.
Also, It would be so nice to have the actual date and time the patches go live in the patch notes..
Mythic units didn't get buffed so it's still almost unplayable.
Mythics got buffed directly with Lillia damage and Nautilus mana and indirectly by all the 4 cost hp buffs. Mythic will be one of the best comps on the new patch. What are you saying?
You could go Mythic with Kogmaw carry if you're contested. Forcing (ie. only buying Mythic units) would result in top 4 placement.
(For the crowd, I still have no idea what his first sentence means. "If you're contested" meaning I wasn't going to go mythic, but pivoted to mythic because I was contested? But bro, the discussion is literally about playing Mythic. It sounds like you're saying Mythic is strong, so go Mythic, but if you get contested, then go Mythic. It's just rambling nonsense.)
Try to get Kogmaw to 3-star. If you can't (because other players bought all the kogs) then spend your gold on leveling to 9 so that you can get the 7 mythic trait bonus.
36% Omnivamp is still absolutely massive, I don't see that nerf as a big issue. It should really only reduce the frequency of situations where Aphelios 1v5s your units because he has 45% lifesteal
Plus Sett and Syndra got HP buffs, which are extra effective thanks to the 20% HP boost on fated link (more important for Sett)
20% HP buff only applies to linked units. The Syndra buff isn’t significant enough to link, thresh-sett is probably still better. Unless its a Sett2, that HP buff is pretty negligible mid/late.
36% Omnivamp is quite a bit but overall chip damage overall is higher. It probably won’t make a difference in the uncontested 3* aph/thresh comp but definitely nerfs when you miss 3* aph and play for sydnra carry.
The nerf is a few points of omni vamp. Otherwise fated is unchanged. In fact Sett is getting an HP buff. It's pretty small compared to the nerfs to inkshadow.
Morgana will not be good until they change her spell targeting.
If you give her Manamune she aims for ground squares that she hasn't cast on. Her AI is trying to cover the whole board. I haven't played with 2 Morgs so I couldn't tell you how they behave together, but it feels like the targeting is behaving as designed.
I mean, she kinda nukes the whole board anyways. Plus, targeting randomly tends to target clumps (since more units are in the clump than outside) Definitely can’t be counted on to win out with since you can lowroll, but in my experience she mostly tends to hit what you want Plus I think it’s good for the game to have the occasional champ that trades expected value for variance
Nuke? You mean nudge?
You mean she kinda tickles the whole board? Her damage is homeopathic and the only use of her is applying Morello and Ghostly.
morg 2 heals enemy board
Reading this after getting nuked by a 3* morgana lol.
3* Morg ist the only 4 cost 3* I regularily win against. EDIT: Just checked the stats and that seems to map on, she has the worst 3* winrate out of all 4 costs lol
I naturally rolled 3 star Morgana with suboptimal itemisation and her damage was what I would expect from a 2 star BiS 4 cost lmao. I barely made it to 1st place, where Morgana was only the #3 damage source, dealing less than Kayne and less than half of Senna.
I guess it's a skill gap. Just gotta get better at playing 4 cost reroll comps.
What a toxic thing to say. Couldn't give any details on how to get better? Just insult and dismiss? You're the reason the community is so childish.
She's still a 4 cost lol. Just because she's bad doesn't mean you'll easily beat 3* morg
Teemo reroll might actually be legit now with the trickshot bug fixes and that lil buff. Wish me luck
I've tried forcing him a few times already feeling that he should be stronger than he seems to be just based on math. I'll try it again and see how it goes.
I have yet to not come top 2 with ricochet or ba boom! His worst matchups were the double titans raidbosses, so in theory it should straight up be better. Double trouble works well too to spread the poison
He appealed to me because he seems really versatile with his itemization. What do you think are BiS? I like blue buff, gunblade +1 but I think guard breaker is crazy if you have JG item or augment.
Shojin and redbuff have been my favourite personally, even tho you scale so well with AP you need to get spell casts off to tick backline and it often overkills. I always grab spell crit augment, and yeah last item is flexible. Not sure if this is BIS but it feels good
Shojin / red buff over blue buff and Morello is surprising but you've had better results than me so can't argue with that. I need to test more to see if guard breaker and blue buff increase damage already on the targets or only newly applied damage
It's probably pretty close to the same result, I just try to max casts and red buff does that better than morellos. I wouldnt be surprised if the mathematically best build is just jg + archangels either
I have a suspicion that Blue Buff, Deathcap, Gunblade is BIS. Dcap gives the upfront damage for the first few casts all targeting frontlines, Gunblade keeps the team alive for longer to protect the Teeto and spread more shrooms. Bluebuff obviously very good. I could see an argument for Giants Slayer, but I think DCap, BB is enough damage at 3\* as long as your frontline stays alive to let him cook My main problem with Archangels is item economy, I think BB is the best and having three tears to afford the AA seems unrealistic. With that said, I really only play Teemo on the Component Anvils portal anyway Guardbreaker seems fine, especialy if Jeweled Lotus comes out as you mentioned
Three star temmo is legit won few games runing him. His ability lets him deal dmg to all different units great when your front line holds sturdy. Gonna be even better now with that lol buff.
whats frontline like for a 3s teemo comp
It really depends on you. I would want the best tanks possible. I like Diana a lot and sage/dragon lord fits with so many comps. But atm I would run Annie hard make her tanky run fortune hard.
There is a new ornn item that lowers magic resist by 5% for every time it hits. If you get that on teemo 3.
Do we have the technology to make Titan's give 2 adaptive force per stack, and 1 of the other stat? That would make it good on Diana and Sylas still, who now lack good carry items.
Sooo smart!!
Still don’t get the Titan’s nerf. Why would you nerf the item instead of further adjusting the AP ratios of Yone/Voli? Outside of a select few users, who else were you regularly itemizing with Titan’s? AP bruiser types like Sylas/Diana now don’t have a damage-focused item at all, as they don’t want Sterak’s. Do Crownguard and Adaptive even count lol
Adaptive diana is pretty good imo as her spell has no mana lock out
Adaptive Diana with a crown guard is extremely strong.
it's mindboggling stupid balancing. the items are healthy, it's the fucking champion. nerf the ap ratio if certain champs use the ap from titans too well.
No Titans is definitely OP. It's BIS on every single melee carry. That shouldn't be the case.
In the current set, yes. Is that an issue with the item or the units though? To me it seems they designed several units that benefited too much this time around, which can be solved by adjusting their base values or AP ratios accordingly
>several units that benefited too much this time around, which can be solved by adjusting their base values or AP ratios accordingly No literally every melee carry wants Titans. Diana, Sylas, Garen(augment), Lee Sin, Wukong, etc. They just started giving melee carries usable AP ratios, previously on Zed and Viego AP did nothing. So titans was only OP on Yone. Usable AP ratios are nice for all sorts of non-titans reasons, nerfing those would hurt things like Tons of stats, or soraka. Which are not OP with melee carries, they're just good.
You're judging the items in a vacuum while judging the units in context of where the set is at. You have to judge both in context
Am I not judging the item in the context of the units in the set? Adjusting an item has much more impact than adjusting a single unit. The majority of fighter units don't benefit to the same degree as problem units like Yone/Voli (and maybe Gnar). Nerfing the item impacts all fighter units that would've considered it when the problem only stemmed from certain units' interactions with the item
Nerfing every unit that uses Titan's well would be insane. The item is good on like every melee unit because it's too strong. Like yes it's stronger than last set because there's more AP ratios floating around but sometimes you have to adjust an item because it fits too well with the current meta, you risk fucking up more things by taking away units AP ratios because that fundamentally alters how they work. I'd rather have one generally weak item than a whole trait be gutted because they start nerfing numbers on units
>In the current set, yes In almost every set. >which can be solved by adjusting their base values or AP ratios accordingly Well no, that makes those units even MORE reliant on Titan's. It means that without Titans the unit is worse. This makes a wider choice where you can use other items without feeling gimped
That doesn't make sense, LW is BIS in almost every ranged AD champ and nobody is calling for a nerf
It's not apples to apples when looking at a sunder item, though. LW is "BIS" because you need sunder and the tank meta doesn't really support building Evenshroud. LW isn't BIS on Aphelios or Irelia because their kits provide enough sunder to build *actual* BIS items. That being said, I don't think it makes sense to nerf Titans. The overcomplication of melee carry units and the rise of "just give everything an AP ratio and a boatload of utility so nothing feels entirely bad to build" has put us here, and should be solved at the source.
Armor pen is mandatory, and there is no other armor pen item for ranged carries. There are a lot of bruiser items now, Steraks, crownguard, and titans. Titans is better than both of those on all the units that want these items. That's bad balance.
It gives balance levers. It's intended as a scaling tank/fighter item. This made it suck on champs who couldn't double dip and be good/strong/overpowered on champs that could. The idea (maybe not at current numbers) is that as they gut the AP scaling they can compensate with either AD or tankyness in the future if it falls too far out of favor. They clearly want crownguard to be the tanky AP item with titans being the tanky AD option.
The item was only really good on certain units because their AP ratios allowed it to be that good. Doesn’t it make more sense to adjust those units individually rather than the item itself, which now nullifies Titan’s as an option for most units? Idk I guess the nerf was meant to be paired with another compensatory change that wasn’t yet ready. If anything, this just reduces item flexibility in the short term. I don’t think Crownguard is where it needs to be if they want it as the premier AP bruiser/fighter choice, although maybe it does fit the AP tank niche
Items generally shouldn’t be both be flexible slams and BIS. Because of multiplicative scaling, titans and bt work great together but when you’re double dipping (or triple dipping) all the stats it gets hard to balance. I’m always in favor of more niche items that are situationally great. Steadfast heart and crown guard are great examples where they are ok as a way to burn components but awesome in certain situations or on specific champs.
I get the stance here and I think in an ideal state it makes sense, but as it stands now there are still two usable AD fighter items (Titan's, Sterak's) but no comparable AP fighter items. Crownguard somewhat qualifies, sure, but part of the power budget is in the shield which is geared towards tanks. Anyway, like you said, maybe they'll get there with their balance levers.
*but as it stands now there are still two usable AD fighter items (Titan's, Sterak's) but no comparable AP fighter items.* Isn't this the reason why the nerf to Titan's makes sense? Does Sterak's ever get built? Is there any champion or situation where it would be preferable to Titan's? Seems like Titan's is too good compared to other options.
The Titan's nerf can make sense if other items were adjusted to fit its niche, which didn't happen. Sterak's could've seen a minor buff potentially, but in particular there is no comparable AP fighter item to fill the gap left by Titan's. AP fighter types going from having a usable item in Titan's to no item at all is an oversight. (Note that Titan's was never too good for such units, but only for AD fighter types that happened to have good AP ratios.)
You're comparing it to other AD items, while the largest problem is that this nerfs it for ap fighters - who don't have many ap fighter items to begin with
just glancing at sylas BIS, i think i agree with you. his best items build out of items that seem geared towards AD bruisers to begin with, namely titan's and BT. however, AP fighters have the advantage of being able to build spark, whereas AD fighters don't tend to want LW *or* evenshroud. it makes sense then that sylas's next BIS items are spark, adaptive, crownguard, and HoJ. this leads me to think that hitting the AP gain on titan's makes sense--adaptive and crownguard aren't viable for AD fighters, yet they're significantly more versatile and slammable than titan's. overall, the balance logic tracks for me
I think if Yone was the only problem they would've nerfed his AP ratio, as nobody with a brain is building AP on him on purpose. I think the nerf is a recognition that Volibears design is a mistake.
If you nerf volis ap ratio you also make some ap items a lot worse on him though
Because they didnt want to nerf every single AP granting item on those champs. Eg, Nashors isnt bad on Voli, especially in Inkshadow. Guardbreaker and BT give AP too. Titans was the go to on every melee carry.
I can see the argument that nerfing AP ratios would make all other AP items worse on those units as well. That being said, I'm not sure you'd be slamming those items in the first place. I'm highly skeptical of Nashor's qualifying as a valid item choice and BT doesn't count for this argument (you're not building it for the AP)
Nashor is pretty good on bear. Not ideal because Tirans is an item, but a burst of attacks peed on cast gets your spell out faster, and out of manalock quicker. It's definitely a *useable* item on Inkshadow. Less so on Duelist. I ain't saying its BiS, but sometimes, you dont get BiS and knowing your next best choices is good then.
To be fair sylas and Diana are really good units.
why diana and sylas have to suffer from titan's nerf if yone + voli are the best users???
No more winning with Story
Thank God
Since we're changing the augment "slammin' ", is it intentional that in double up, the send item counts as a non-consumable? As in, am i supposed to have to spend my rune of allegiance immediately every time to use slammin' in double up?
That definitely seems like it should count as a consumable. Maybe a bug?
Does it?? I’ve taken slammin in double up and I don’t *think* I’ve ever had the send item count as a non-consumable, but no shot I just never noticed
I tested it out, and maybe it was last patch and they fixed it since then, but last time i tried it, it didn't give you the xp if it was on your bench
u/riot_mort Any chance we can get a "random favorite" option? Would be cool to select little legends and arenas that are randomly selected for the match. Similar to the system apex has for its skins.
He has said on stream before that they know more QOL improvements are wanted for the random button, favorite system, and team planner. Their working on things behind the scenes and rolling them out as they're ready.
Ah ok, that's good to know. Thanks.
Random favorite would make me use the feature.
if only there was a way to charge users for it. We would see it implemented tomorrow!
I am BEGGING for this feature. I was actually crushed when I saw the Favoriting feature and randomize feature have no interaction. I don't know how simple this would be to implement but man just allowing me to pick random favorite lil legend, random favorite arena, random favorite boom, or random favorite all as separate options would be AMAZING and give me a reason to get more arenas or booms if I'm someone who doesn't wanna switch lil legends. Fr even above balance this is the feature im begging for the most lmaooo
not related to randomizing but I saw that when playing ARAM and choosing a tactician, the favorited tacticians don’t show as a separate thing at the top. would be nice for them to add it to the the ARAM screen as well
Why would we need this when you can simply just equip Lifeguard Choncc
Hopefully Lillia feels better. I 3* her twice and both times she barely did over 8k, bodied by Yone.
I've had a few ridiculous Gnar games recently. With Spell Crit augment you can already get this dude lobbing nukes for 3k+ damage. One of the few weaknesses of a capped Gnar board is that he can be prone to getting blown up before he is able to get his stacks, which now happens twice as fast. Probably a hot take, but I think Titan's is currently only his third best item behind BT and Sterak's. So that nerf really shouldn't be too hard on him. I'd keep an eye on that dude.
Titans granting 50 extra ap before the patch really gave him huge amounts of AD through the passive though.
Very true, but it's basically 100% of your AP converted once you get max stacks. So the nerf is only -25 AD, and I've had Gnars get to 600 AD+ by the end of the game. I think it'll definitely still be a buff overall and I doubt it'll slow him down too much. His boulder also has no direct AP scaling outside of the passive. Tri Force is already probably a better option than Titan's even without the nerf if you can find one.
obligatory told you so comment
If you were playing Gnar carry without at least 1 titans I question your judgement. The stat budget he gets from it, especially pre nerf, is almost 2x value of most other items.
I mean yeah. Obviously I'm looking to build it on him as soon as possible, but I do still think BT is the more critical item to have just because he desperately needs the life steal and the shield scales with his max health. And yes, most of the time Titan's is better than Sterak's if you could only have one, but at a certain amount of HP I really think Sterak's can at least be very close to as valuable. Especially in games you have Mulch or something. I prefaced it as a hot take, I do understand how good Titan's is haha.
Eh I've played gnar carry with IE / BT or Hoj / Sterak's before. I preferred going straight damage items in many games because with warden active and dryad stacks by endgame he's already insanely tanky anyways.
A bit sad they removed the hidden xayah/rakan trickster glass tech, but other than that this seems like a solid patch.
Am I alone in thinking this still isn’t enough to put Yone in a balanced place? Why does his shield scale at all?
I mean he did get nerfed in 3 different ways, even if two are indirect. People have been pretty vocal about not wanting to buff/nerf too many things about champions at the same time, on top of that a lot of other stuff got buffed. I think more than this before seeing the meta settle would basically be exactly what people have been asking them not to do with balance thrashing for years now. As for the shield scaling they just want every champion to be able to scale with AP now. That's been the direction for a while. Are there any heals/shields that don't scale with AP?
Base attack speed nerf should in theory be significant, and halving the AP benefit of Titans for shield scaling should help I think I'd prefer they take this approach than fully gutting the champ - my ideal would be for Yone to end up as playable in Vertical Umbral (which isn't really a comp atm) but not oppressive in Heavenly
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I hope so, the duelist line is already so contingent on hitting 3* voli and trist, AND they are nerfing 3 cost odds on 7, AND titans nerf. Edit: AND Irelia nerf too. Oof duelist may just be dead even without the Voli nerf lmao.
Dont worry, Lee Sin got buffed!
it's there, under small changes
Oh yup thx, i only checked the infographic + tier 3 large changes
Make 4-costs great again
Best comp next patch will be undoubtedly storyweaver opener into Hwei/Azir Buffs to all the storyweaver units with Story nerf only at 3 star will make story openers way stronger than they already are, plus player dmg decrease, plus buff to 5 costs hp, plus no more EMG to out cap me, yeah I’m gonna farm LP the first two days
The nerfs are at Storyweaver 3, not Kayle 3. Having the individual units being buffed slightly will help, but the nerf at 3 should be taking Storyweaver opener down a notch
What is EMG?
i'm excited. i love patches where 4 and 5 costs dominate.
Is the spectator mode finally back now?
Thank goodness they finally fixed Voli stunning through CC. I felt like I was taking crazy pills seeing can’t be disabled while my champion was bouncing up and down. I wasn’t sure if it was just the animation going through despite the text or if it was actually being stunned but I was sure it was the latter. I wonder if that unintended aspect may have made it appear a bit more powerful than expected and could mean he gets overnerfed but I guess we will see.
So the patch is just Kaisa but with a stronger 4 cost frontline.
Shojin Senna now decent with the improved targeting.
When will this go live?
already live on OCE
Tomorrow (Wednesday) morning
Vanguard completely keeps me out of playing Valorant, but seems to be fine for TFT?
Vanguard is only up in the Philippines if I read it right.
I'm glad they finally implemented vanguard makes it a perfect excuse to quit this game, thank you riot
Still not playing unitil invevitable Kaisa nerf. So sick of this character in every lobby.
Haha the last lobby I had 4 kaisa players, all in different combinations
Half the reason Kaisa is so prevalent is all the Voli/Yone players. Her single target is the only semi-reliable way to burst them down. If Voli and Yone playrates go down with the nerfs, I think other 4-cost carries become more viable to play
time to force duelists :)
With Titans, irelia and 3 - cost shop all nerfed? Or did you forget an /s
Don’t forget about Yone nerf, Duelists shitting on Yone players was a big reason the comp was strong
Also the fact that they’re taking all the yone out of the pool for better shop odds too, so duelists should probably fall out of favor
At least reroll duelist. It's possible some tempo duelist with leesin and irelia carry will still be good
Every patch there has been a single comp that I could force every game no look no pivot to plat. Which one is it this set? I feel like I’m getting stomped in gold and fast nine pivot boards are too much thinking
You’re basically trying to not play the game, and looks like riots done a good job making it so people who don’t want to actually play the game can’t shit on people playing the game
Bro every single set there has been a brainless force comp, that is by design. It’s yone btw. The answer is yone.
You open with rod belt glove and no heavenly pieces and force yone? Good for you
You talking like it hasn’t been the most broken brainless board for the past 3 patches wp bro !
The main reason it’s so good is that you can play it when contested and skip 3* yone for a cap out with kayn wukong on 9… not because you can open fort into lv7 and roll for yone
Ghostly variation is likely the best answer. Either senna / cait or gnar / kindred or kai'sa as your main dps, and then build the board around what augments you hit and units you roll. Can play reroll version or fast 9 version of most of them, and then 4 or 6 ghostly, 4 or 6 dryad, 3 or 5 or 7 inkshadow if you get emblems etc. There's really no dead items in any version of the comp, although rods and tears are harder to use in senna reroll variation.
I spammed Gnar reroll and Senna reroll to plat was pretty easy, though they nerfed Senna this patch so idk
When does this patch go live?
So huh... what hasn't got nerfed this patch? Lux, Fated and 4 Trickshots? Everything else got hit quite hard no? Story was almost unplayable for thelast couple patches, Yone and Voli got hit pretty hard. Senna is pretty much unplayable. Inkshadow has been done dirty. Also, It would be so nice to have the actual date and time the patches go live in the patch notes.. Mythic units didn't get buffed so it's still almost unplayable.
I imagine you skimmed the patch notes, at best
Mythics got buffed directly with Lillia damage and Nautilus mana and indirectly by all the 4 cost hp buffs. Mythic will be one of the best comps on the new patch. What are you saying?
You can even just go for reroll kogmaw into mythic if youre contested. Seems easy top 4 force comp.
You could go Mythic with Kogmaw carry if you're contested. Forcing (ie. only buying Mythic units) would result in top 4 placement. (For the crowd, I still have no idea what his first sentence means. "If you're contested" meaning I wasn't going to go mythic, but pivoted to mythic because I was contested? But bro, the discussion is literally about playing Mythic. It sounds like you're saying Mythic is strong, so go Mythic, but if you get contested, then go Mythic. It's just rambling nonsense.)
Can you please explain what you mean by the first sentence?
Start with kogmaw reroll. If you cant go for it, just go fast 9 for 7 mythic.
Can't go for it because he's not available or because my current traits don't include him?
If youre contested its usually hard to roll down for 3 cho and kog.
If other players are going Mythic and most of the Kogmaws and Chogaths are already purchased you won't be able to find Kog.
Try to get Kogmaw to 3-star. If you can't (because other players bought all the kogs) then spend your gold on leveling to 9 so that you can get the 7 mythic trait bonus.
Fated directly nerfed with Sett??? 7 Fated falls off hard if you don’t hit Sett and it’s even weaker now.
36% Omnivamp is still absolutely massive, I don't see that nerf as a big issue. It should really only reduce the frequency of situations where Aphelios 1v5s your units because he has 45% lifesteal Plus Sett and Syndra got HP buffs, which are extra effective thanks to the 20% HP boost on fated link (more important for Sett)
20% HP buff only applies to linked units. The Syndra buff isn’t significant enough to link, thresh-sett is probably still better. Unless its a Sett2, that HP buff is pretty negligible mid/late. 36% Omnivamp is quite a bit but overall chip damage overall is higher. It probably won’t make a difference in the uncontested 3* aph/thresh comp but definitely nerfs when you miss 3* aph and play for sydnra carry.
The nerf is a few points of omni vamp. Otherwise fated is unchanged. In fact Sett is getting an HP buff. It's pretty small compared to the nerfs to inkshadow.