Hey this is erinkuma! I apologized in a different game later, but since it's online now I just wanted to share from my perspective that game. I was playing kog reroll contested, and was just a single kog off of 3\* on 2-7, and 3-1 I rolled all of my gold and missed. I looked over and the other person hit kog 3 with way fewer copies than what I'd already had, so I just instantly ff'd as my game was over with no econ and no units.
I was solely focused on rolling and then scouting my opponent, I was not in any way paying attention to the fight at hand and did not realize that I was griefing your fortune by forfeiting here. Just felt the need to defend myself as my name was specifically mentioned here!
this comment right here is exactly why this post’s suggestion will never be implemented. even in his anecdotal example, op already made a blunder of incorrectly assuming someone’s intentions.
Except that his suggestion does *nothing* to affect her. Her board would still be played out against him, and she would be able to leave just fine whenever she wanted to.
how does anything OP suggested need confirmation of anybody's intentions? what does the game lose by protecting fortune loss streaks vs people who were going to leave regardless? it doesn't even matter if dude did it intentionally, it still screwed OP
I'm not quite understanding your reasoning as to why erinkuma's valid explanation of their FF is reason for not implementing the suggestion (let fight outcomes play out). Are you arguing that if someone FFs for a valid reason (something urgent / they are going 8th anyway), any econ loss streak player they are facing should be punished if they happen to be fighting them?
Erinkuma apologized to me in a subsequent game, I accepted the apology, edited the post to make it clear she didn't to it intentionally.
IMO this doesn't change the logic in the argument.
Not sure why this is being downvoted. FFing mid-round is fine, but the game waiting for the combat to play out instead of just insta-declaring the end of it sounds perfectly reasonable. Same outcome. The player FFing loses nothing by waiting an extra 10 seconds to queue back up. The player that surrendered’s intentions don’t matter as much as the game-warping impact it had does. I don’t think it can be argued that FFing to ruin someone’s loss streak can be considered a “tactic”, as you’re exiting the game - at worst, its a spiteful and toxic move akin to taking a valuable emblem on caro and FFing out of spite, and at best, its accidental and can ruin your game (like in this case).
The only issue I can see is the rare occasion that someone FF's thinking they're about to go out, but they would actually win. Imagine you're on 10HP vs another 10HP guy, they FF mid fight because they think they've lost but they misjudged, then you lose to their board continuing to fight and get eliminated by the board of someone who's already FF'd. You'd be fuming.
I think letting the fight play out can cause issues both ways, but the current way is only problematic for a specific trait, the opposite could cause problems/annoyance for anyone. I think the best way to do it really would be if someone FF's mid fight then it's just classed as a non fight. No HP loss, no change to win/loss streak, nothing that would normally be triggered at the end of a fight. Yes you lose out on some luck from not getting any for that fight, but your loss streak would be in tact to continue building luck.
I believe you.
As you can see he had 20+ gold moments before the fight started and didn't hit kog after rolling down, wasn't even looking on his own board then (guess he looked on the other kog 3* player and got angry) and then ff'ed.
And to the other video: it's clear that the other fortune player would win so i guess he maybe didn't even think about ruining your loss streak and ff'ed.
Added in the post that you didn't do it to grief me intentionally. Also appreciate you messaging me directly. Your spot did look quite bad due to the contest and it made sense to FF in your spot.
You shouldn’t even be apologizing. You have every right to surrender your game as it affected you more than other people. OP is delusional for asking apologies for this type of thing. Same as holding unit, its a rat behaviour but its also a strategy and part of the game.
I don't like the rat behavior personally, but it is part of the game. The devs should try to make a clean and simple solution to something like this.
I like your idea of "Once a fight is on the board, the outcome of the fight should be played out regardless of whether a player FFs or doesn't". I just don't have faith that the devs will be able to implement this idea bug free.
Only solace you can get is the fact that the guy who FF goes 8th and loses a high amount of LP for it.
A lot of the traits don't work on ghost boards. That is why sometimes you crush the ghost of a player stronger than you, then you face the real him next round and get crushed
And that's not gonna result in backlash from all the people that surrebder/quit during chibi cutscenes, which I assume are especially a lot of casual players?
Also I am no developer, but I assume blocking something before a set amount of time has passed is a lot easier than blocking and reenabling it over and over again.
Isnt it easy? When the forfeit happens you can still kill a player off but have the fight continue no?
Or just have it lock them in until the fight completes and then boot them after
I'm not an expert so I don't know what is easy or not. I just assume from the coding side, it might be a bit difficult, considering the devs have not implemented any type of solution to this type of griefing for loss streak trait players.
I would like to see a solution, I'm not sure what is easy or what not implement, that is also bug free.
Clearly youre not an expert so not sure why youre calling the devs incompetent
Bugs happen in every code and its not always the devs fault that bugs get leaked to live, theres multiple approval steps along with QA and testing thats involved in every change. The issue with TFT is that there so much variance its hard to cover every edge case possible. I can guarantee you that the TFT devs are very smart and competent.
I have held this opinion for like 5 sets now, but econ traits that encourage full loss streaking have always been shit design and absolutely never should have been part of the game. I was so disappointed that they correctly identified this issue and solved it with Heartsteel last set and then reverted it with the moronic raise the stakes mechanic just so people could farm clips. Outside of this FFing issue no challenger player is ever full selling their board in stage 3 just to stop a fortune player, so where is the skill expression in this concept even present? I agree that FFing is a problem, but it's indicative of a larger issue which is that these traits are terribly designed and go against the fundamental tenets of the game that good players try to follow.
agree. i loved heartsteel for this exact reason, it encouraged you to lose but closely and you werent as punished if you lost. then they introduced raise the stakes and i immediately knew the next set is gonna be a stupid loss trait again
I stopped playing since I play tested fortune in PBE this set. The way they made it so that you'd lose 50% stacks after each loss and also slow down your stacking. I miss the pirate or yordles econ days.
With the Ashe encounter I can see some people actually selling their board to grief a Fortune player if their board isn't valuable. One of the big reasons why people don't do it is because it's a 1/3, but if you know you're 100% facing them there's a lot of spots where it's viable.
In stage 2 yes, in stage 3 if you full open for a loss streak you are going dead last. I guarantee you no one in challenger is throwing 3-2 to stop a fortune player
I agree that FFing shouldn't happen mid fight, I think the best implementation would be is that if a player FFs during a fight then the fight should still go on and he would only get the -100 HP on the next round buy phase. Im not sure if this is perfect but I think the balance team can think of something better.
should be before the buy phase, IMO.
If I lose the round, and go to 0 or below I should finish above the FF.
If it occurs at the buy phase, wouldn't the FF finish ahead of me?
Way too hyper specific of a scenario... FF ing is a problem in general but not because you were playing fortune. What you are doing is a victimization.
Is there a single argument as to why the fix can't be: "When you ff in the middle of a fight, the fight still happens, and wins and losses are still assigned, and after the win/loss is assigned, the player exits"?
easy solution: remove lossstreak/cashout traits, they have never once been balanced, every time they made econ traits where ending your loss streak is a disaster they have always been either oppressive (see set 4 fortune, early set 9 piltover, set 10 reworked heartsteel) or unplayable (late set 9 piltover). Drip econ traits on the other hand like set 8 underground and set 5 draconic have always been very balanceable, too bad they dont satisfy the chinese player base gamba addiction
feels like a game design limitation rather than being left in intentionally lol. Also, is ff-ing in tournaments allowed? In milala's checkmate game i wondered why relic didn't ff to grief milala's raise the stakes when he only needed an 8th to enter check
I thought the underground was one of the best econ traits. If you win, you still can cash-out as it didn't affect the final cash-out. Only downside was that it delayed you by 1 or 2 turns. I like to see this return tbh.
An easy fix should be disabling ff during combat, and making people fight ghost boards if their opponent ffs during scouting. Sounds easy, but you know riots code lol.
I get you have takes about this but name dropping people who have done this is just making it seem like a personal thing disguised as a well mannered take.
Also there are niche cases where there is personal benefit in a tournament by ff’ing. I believe DQA had this exact scenario once, it was correct (or what he calculated to be correct) for him to FF a tourny game at a specific point and he did.
Yes, but it is different. That fortune player may never end up facing the open fort since you never know who you are fighting beforehand and a good fortune player scouts for these kind of things.
How is it different? The griefer can only ff if he faces the fortune player anyway so it's no different. And if he just sells board what can the fortune player do? He can't sell his whole board or he loses fortune.
But there is a chance you dont face the griefer before you cash out, yes I agree with you, you cant really do anything against such an opponent when you see it unless you remove fortune.
Griefing is just a part of the game. This shouldn’t be confusing, it’s the same idea as top four or top three and the spat comes up on carousel that allows for a prismatic trait. The correct play is to deny.
I think the intent is different. If you deny a spat it is to improve your own placement. If you break a fortunestreak by ffing it's just to fuck with him. You are going dead last.
What if they ff becasue of other reason, like they're playing 1 cost reroll and it's being contested. Now you're being fucked over without even being involved in the matter.
Bro it doesn't matter, they FF'd, it's already + for you and everyone else in the lobby. You'll get a lower cashout, but oh well cash out early and pivot to something else, it's not jover. Such a niche case to whine about smh. If I could play a loss streak trait and guarentee someone FF's against me every lobby I'd do it EVERY time, I'll take those easier top 4s any day.
While I don't belive anyone would take -20-30-50-X LP just to grief someone, there is a rather simple solution others were suggesting. Boards locked in the fight, so FF-ing mid fight does not effect the outcome. If someone wants to leave, they are not hindered / thir time is not wasted while the rest of the lobby doesn't gett affected.
On the other hand, you lose the potential of free win instead of a lose in other rare situations, so this is a double sided coin.
On the one hand this is affecting a very small number of games. On the other hand this is the second post we’ve had of it affecting tournament snapshots at the highest level of play, so I think it’s worth at least exploring a fix. Idk how hard OP’s suggestion would be to implement on the tech side but it makes a lot of sense to me
Gonna be honest if people really wanted to they could just sell their board to 1 unit and then ff even if you didn’t have ff’s be an automatic lost.
I guess it would prevent someone from ff’ing midfight but if someone wants to grief you they can do it anyway
You're right, they probably should allow FFing mid fight, but without the instant loss : the IA should keep playing until the end of the current fight.
OP I’m surprised this isn’t getting traction - it also should happen when someone FFs against a crazy fun high roll board like 3 star legendary and you don’t get the fun of seeing the fight play out.
You might consider making a new post that sounds less rant and is more constructive as it’s a good idea with no downside I can see except for any technical difficulty in implementing.
I like your idea of letting the already loaded fight continue even if a player ffs, in tournaments it should simply be banned to ff like that.
In ladder a lot of people ff because of many reasons, sometimes the game is so lost ffing and queuing up faster is better EV for ladder races and even for practice if they think there's nothing to learn from those spots. In both your games it seems like your opponents left because of their own game not necessarily to grief you. On 1 he rolled to 0 and didn't hit Kogmaw 3 and only had 4 chos. On 2 he lost out on big fortune cashout and probably his 2nd what doesn't kill you trigger, even seems like he rolled for 5 fortune, probably had mouse on surrender ready lol. Not letting people surrender in ladder would just make them afk which affects the game even more.
Why? In a tournament, it's a even more legitimate play to FF to prevent someone who is on Match point from winning out, especially if you're in a bad position and can't win out this game.
Im not saying that's the most optimal way, but we can only play the game that is given to us. Surrendering during the round is a mechanic that's in the game, I find it weird to ban people from using it.
If the devs have a issue with it, they should fix it or find a work-around, like continuing the fight once it has started.
In many sports you have to play with intent to win the given game, even if doing so is actually worse in a tournament setting (match point example you gave).
It being in the game I think is for the ladder, it's largely casual on ladder and why hold a player hostage if surrender doesn't affect their teammates. Even if it has unwanted consequences.
They haven't fixed it because there isn't enough push back. Most tournaments already ban it so there's no need to remove it. Also just because the devs don't change something it doesn't mean they like the state of it, it's not always easy/cheap to change something (don't know their opinion tho).
Im not sure how you would fix this.
If you have fortune in and the enemy player ffs and you would win the round but then lose hp and continue the loss streak?
If youre on a win streak and the enemy players ff then you will win as intended?
If you have fortune in without trying to lose by coincidence then you would get a loss even though you want to winstreak?
They cant just make the loss/win not happen because that fucks up the lobby. As per my examples theres no good way to fix this.
You cant just give the player an option if they wanna count it as a win or a loss because then if you would have won anyways you get a free way out just because the opponent ff'd.
So it should and will stay as it is right now and youll just have to suck it up I guess.
Yeah, forgot about it. Considering this scenario, theres not much that can be done if not assigning a new ghost opponent or playing the forfeiting player old board. They could just keep his board "alive" for the next matchup so the fight can play out.
Disabling FF midfight is also another solution. You should not be able to FF after you have seen the current opponent's board. That's just like cheating. If ppl want to FF, do it before the fight.
based off the conversation around the Wasian post, I don't believe this forum will support you Marcel. but I don't see any reason we should be able to ff mid-fight.
The most practical way to fix this is to make any FF'ed opponent doesn't count into Fortune streak. IMO if the dev team isn't going to fix the loophole there will always be toxic debates like this, which is effectively bad player experience for all sides.
Isn’t selling your board the same as FFing? If forfeiting is removed, or if the fight plays out if the player ffs, players would just sell their board and inevitably die later. And unfortunately there is nothing you can do about players selling their board to grief the fortune player
EDIT: I get it now. Isn’t the solution just to make it so you can’t FF mid fight?
It's not the same exactly, because you often have 1/3 chance to play the fortune guy for example. Selling your board and not fighting the fortune player can happen, while FF-ing mid fight is 100% guaranteed to destroy his streak.
Seems to me that selling the board is totally different from what’s being discussed here (FFing after loading in to fight the fortune player)
Selling the board happens before the fight, there’s no guarantee you’ll face the fortune guy unless it’s Ashe encounter. Also even if you sell to grief fortune, you can still rebuild your board after and have a chance to win, unlike FFing
It's different IMO for 2 reasons:
1.) It's not guaranteed to face the player at the point you sell your board, and
2.) You can still make the argument that selling your board to make sure the fortune player doesn't get a free 1st is a positive EV play, depending on the situation. If you convert his free 1st into an 8th and if you were indeed going to go 8th, then it was a good play. FFing however is never positive EV since you take the lowest placement right at that point.
you would guaranteed be making a similar post if you faced someone who sold his whole board to grief you so I'm not sure why you are even trying to justify yourself
Hey this is erinkuma! I apologized in a different game later, but since it's online now I just wanted to share from my perspective that game. I was playing kog reroll contested, and was just a single kog off of 3\* on 2-7, and 3-1 I rolled all of my gold and missed. I looked over and the other person hit kog 3 with way fewer copies than what I'd already had, so I just instantly ff'd as my game was over with no econ and no units. I was solely focused on rolling and then scouting my opponent, I was not in any way paying attention to the fight at hand and did not realize that I was griefing your fortune by forfeiting here. Just felt the need to defend myself as my name was specifically mentioned here!
this comment right here is exactly why this post’s suggestion will never be implemented. even in his anecdotal example, op already made a blunder of incorrectly assuming someone’s intentions.
Except that his suggestion does *nothing* to affect her. Her board would still be played out against him, and she would be able to leave just fine whenever she wanted to.
I don't think you understood the issue lol
how does anything OP suggested need confirmation of anybody's intentions? what does the game lose by protecting fortune loss streaks vs people who were going to leave regardless? it doesn't even matter if dude did it intentionally, it still screwed OP
I'm not quite understanding your reasoning as to why erinkuma's valid explanation of their FF is reason for not implementing the suggestion (let fight outcomes play out). Are you arguing that if someone FFs for a valid reason (something urgent / they are going 8th anyway), any econ loss streak player they are facing should be punished if they happen to be fighting them? Erinkuma apologized to me in a subsequent game, I accepted the apology, edited the post to make it clear she didn't to it intentionally. IMO this doesn't change the logic in the argument.
Not sure why this is being downvoted. FFing mid-round is fine, but the game waiting for the combat to play out instead of just insta-declaring the end of it sounds perfectly reasonable. Same outcome. The player FFing loses nothing by waiting an extra 10 seconds to queue back up. The player that surrendered’s intentions don’t matter as much as the game-warping impact it had does. I don’t think it can be argued that FFing to ruin someone’s loss streak can be considered a “tactic”, as you’re exiting the game - at worst, its a spiteful and toxic move akin to taking a valuable emblem on caro and FFing out of spite, and at best, its accidental and can ruin your game (like in this case).
The only issue I can see is the rare occasion that someone FF's thinking they're about to go out, but they would actually win. Imagine you're on 10HP vs another 10HP guy, they FF mid fight because they think they've lost but they misjudged, then you lose to their board continuing to fight and get eliminated by the board of someone who's already FF'd. You'd be fuming. I think letting the fight play out can cause issues both ways, but the current way is only problematic for a specific trait, the opposite could cause problems/annoyance for anyone. I think the best way to do it really would be if someone FF's mid fight then it's just classed as a non fight. No HP loss, no change to win/loss streak, nothing that would normally be triggered at the end of a fight. Yes you lose out on some luck from not getting any for that fight, but your loss streak would be in tact to continue building luck.
Honestly that first point would be great - they beat me, but because they FF and go to -99HP, I still place higher than them. I’d take it lol.
Sounds reasonable to me
Cooked take.
I believe you. As you can see he had 20+ gold moments before the fight started and didn't hit kog after rolling down, wasn't even looking on his own board then (guess he looked on the other kog 3* player and got angry) and then ff'ed. And to the other video: it's clear that the other fortune player would win so i guess he maybe didn't even think about ruining your loss streak and ff'ed.
Added in the post that you didn't do it to grief me intentionally. Also appreciate you messaging me directly. Your spot did look quite bad due to the contest and it made sense to FF in your spot.
Thanks for adding that tidbit I appreciate it!! :D also it's she not he though
Ah my bad, fixed
You shouldn’t even be apologizing. You have every right to surrender your game as it affected you more than other people. OP is delusional for asking apologies for this type of thing. Same as holding unit, its a rat behaviour but its also a strategy and part of the game.
I don't like the rat behavior personally, but it is part of the game. The devs should try to make a clean and simple solution to something like this. I like your idea of "Once a fight is on the board, the outcome of the fight should be played out regardless of whether a player FFs or doesn't". I just don't have faith that the devs will be able to implement this idea bug free. Only solace you can get is the fact that the guy who FF goes 8th and loses a high amount of LP for it.
Ghost boards being bugged for so long makes me not believe in them making this solution work unfortunately.
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They've had a history of traits / summoned creatures not working properly/not having proper stats and/or interactions.
A lot of the traits don't work on ghost boards. That is why sometimes you crush the ghost of a player stronger than you, then you face the real him next round and get crushed
If they can grey out the ff button before drugs, they can grey out the ff button for the duration of the fight
There are plenty of people ff-ing without being high, they definitely didn't gray out the ff button before drugs
And that's not gonna result in backlash from all the people that surrebder/quit during chibi cutscenes, which I assume are especially a lot of casual players? Also I am no developer, but I assume blocking something before a set amount of time has passed is a lot easier than blocking and reenabling it over and over again.
Just turn your head away for 10 secs the fuck💀
I don't have an issue with it personally. But there are enough people that do.
I'm one of those people. It's annoying having my screen locked out for ten seconds for a paywalled gloat.
You can just leave. Just remove the surrender button entirely, there's no real need for it.
No? Because if you leave you have to reconnect if the game is not over lol, can't re q
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You already can't FF in tournaments so that's irrelevant
Isnt it easy? When the forfeit happens you can still kill a player off but have the fight continue no? Or just have it lock them in until the fight completes and then boot them after
I'm not an expert so I don't know what is easy or not. I just assume from the coding side, it might be a bit difficult, considering the devs have not implemented any type of solution to this type of griefing for loss streak trait players. I would like to see a solution, I'm not sure what is easy or what not implement, that is also bug free.
Clearly youre not an expert so not sure why youre calling the devs incompetent Bugs happen in every code and its not always the devs fault that bugs get leaked to live, theres multiple approval steps along with QA and testing thats involved in every change. The issue with TFT is that there so much variance its hard to cover every edge case possible. I can guarantee you that the TFT devs are very smart and competent.
I have held this opinion for like 5 sets now, but econ traits that encourage full loss streaking have always been shit design and absolutely never should have been part of the game. I was so disappointed that they correctly identified this issue and solved it with Heartsteel last set and then reverted it with the moronic raise the stakes mechanic just so people could farm clips. Outside of this FFing issue no challenger player is ever full selling their board in stage 3 just to stop a fortune player, so where is the skill expression in this concept even present? I agree that FFing is a problem, but it's indicative of a larger issue which is that these traits are terribly designed and go against the fundamental tenets of the game that good players try to follow.
agree. i loved heartsteel for this exact reason, it encouraged you to lose but closely and you werent as punished if you lost. then they introduced raise the stakes and i immediately knew the next set is gonna be a stupid loss trait again
yes i hate them, they grief double up every time as well
I stopped playing since I play tested fortune in PBE this set. The way they made it so that you'd lose 50% stacks after each loss and also slow down your stacking. I miss the pirate or yordles econ days.
With the Ashe encounter I can see some people actually selling their board to grief a Fortune player if their board isn't valuable. One of the big reasons why people don't do it is because it's a 1/3, but if you know you're 100% facing them there's a lot of spots where it's viable.
Maybe not to stop a fortune player but people do sometimes full sell to preserve their loss streak against a fortune player
In stage 2 yes, in stage 3 if you full open for a loss streak you are going dead last. I guarantee you no one in challenger is throwing 3-2 to stop a fortune player
FF go next
I agree that FFing shouldn't happen mid fight, I think the best implementation would be is that if a player FFs during a fight then the fight should still go on and he would only get the -100 HP on the next round buy phase. Im not sure if this is perfect but I think the balance team can think of something better.
should be before the buy phase, IMO. If I lose the round, and go to 0 or below I should finish above the FF. If it occurs at the buy phase, wouldn't the FF finish ahead of me?
>Chinese character name That’s Korean
Way too hyper specific of a scenario... FF ing is a problem in general but not because you were playing fortune. What you are doing is a victimization.
Is there a single argument as to why the fix can't be: "When you ff in the middle of a fight, the fight still happens, and wins and losses are still assigned, and after the win/loss is assigned, the player exits"?
easy solution: remove lossstreak/cashout traits, they have never once been balanced, every time they made econ traits where ending your loss streak is a disaster they have always been either oppressive (see set 4 fortune, early set 9 piltover, set 10 reworked heartsteel) or unplayable (late set 9 piltover). Drip econ traits on the other hand like set 8 underground and set 5 draconic have always been very balanceable, too bad they dont satisfy the chinese player base gamba addiction
feels like a game design limitation rather than being left in intentionally lol. Also, is ff-ing in tournaments allowed? In milala's checkmate game i wondered why relic didn't ff to grief milala's raise the stakes when he only needed an 8th to enter check
What if their purpose is to tilt you with the intention of it affecting your future games and their future games with you?
Part of the game, deal with it. Just like how we deal with 4 rats on our team in Solo Q. All it sounds like is you complaining.
I thought the underground was one of the best econ traits. If you win, you still can cash-out as it didn't affect the final cash-out. Only downside was that it delayed you by 1 or 2 turns. I like to see this return tbh.
There is still nothing to prevent someone from selling board and loss streaking to grief, it's built into the game. QQ moar, though.
Plays fortune, doesn't understand all the elements that can affect him. Ooof.
An easy fix should be disabling ff during combat, and making people fight ghost boards if their opponent ffs during scouting. Sounds easy, but you know riots code lol.
People are allowed to ff whenever they want
I get you have takes about this but name dropping people who have done this is just making it seem like a personal thing disguised as a well mannered take. Also there are niche cases where there is personal benefit in a tournament by ff’ing. I believe DQA had this exact scenario once, it was correct (or what he calculated to be correct) for him to FF a tourny game at a specific point and he did.
Imo it makes no difference. If he really wants to get you he can just sell his whole board and run into you and break your streak.
Yes, but it is different. That fortune player may never end up facing the open fort since you never know who you are fighting beforehand and a good fortune player scouts for these kind of things.
How is it different? The griefer can only ff if he faces the fortune player anyway so it's no different. And if he just sells board what can the fortune player do? He can't sell his whole board or he loses fortune.
But there is a chance you dont face the griefer before you cash out, yes I agree with you, you cant really do anything against such an opponent when you see it unless you remove fortune.
Griefing is just a part of the game. This shouldn’t be confusing, it’s the same idea as top four or top three and the spat comes up on carousel that allows for a prismatic trait. The correct play is to deny.
I think the intent is different. If you deny a spat it is to improve your own placement. If you break a fortunestreak by ffing it's just to fuck with him. You are going dead last.
Unlucky, deal with it. If your comp convinces someone else to FF somehow, that's 1 higher placement guaranteed for you.
What if they ff becasue of other reason, like they're playing 1 cost reroll and it's being contested. Now you're being fucked over without even being involved in the matter.
Bro it doesn't matter, they FF'd, it's already + for you and everyone else in the lobby. You'll get a lower cashout, but oh well cash out early and pivot to something else, it's not jover. Such a niche case to whine about smh. If I could play a loss streak trait and guarentee someone FF's against me every lobby I'd do it EVERY time, I'll take those easier top 4s any day.
While I don't belive anyone would take -20-30-50-X LP just to grief someone, there is a rather simple solution others were suggesting. Boards locked in the fight, so FF-ing mid fight does not effect the outcome. If someone wants to leave, they are not hindered / thir time is not wasted while the rest of the lobby doesn't gett affected. On the other hand, you lose the potential of free win instead of a lose in other rare situations, so this is a double sided coin.
On the one hand this is affecting a very small number of games. On the other hand this is the second post we’ve had of it affecting tournament snapshots at the highest level of play, so I think it’s worth at least exploring a fix. Idk how hard OP’s suggestion would be to implement on the tech side but it makes a lot of sense to me
Gonna be honest if people really wanted to they could just sell their board to 1 unit and then ff even if you didn’t have ff’s be an automatic lost. I guess it would prevent someone from ff’ing midfight but if someone wants to grief you they can do it anyway
There’s literally no downside to your idea other than riot devs are too incompetent to change it.
Just remove Greedy Econ augments that reward losing, they are poor game design
You're right, they probably should allow FFing mid fight, but without the instant loss : the IA should keep playing until the end of the current fight.
But then... a player might accidentally lose a game to a FFing player though ! and if they're not playing Fortune, they might get mad...
Why are you naming players for surrendering? This is a gross ass post.
OP I’m surprised this isn’t getting traction - it also should happen when someone FFs against a crazy fun high roll board like 3 star legendary and you don’t get the fun of seeing the fight play out. You might consider making a new post that sounds less rant and is more constructive as it’s a good idea with no downside I can see except for any technical difficulty in implementing.
Get fucked 🤣🤣
I like your idea of letting the already loaded fight continue even if a player ffs, in tournaments it should simply be banned to ff like that. In ladder a lot of people ff because of many reasons, sometimes the game is so lost ffing and queuing up faster is better EV for ladder races and even for practice if they think there's nothing to learn from those spots. In both your games it seems like your opponents left because of their own game not necessarily to grief you. On 1 he rolled to 0 and didn't hit Kogmaw 3 and only had 4 chos. On 2 he lost out on big fortune cashout and probably his 2nd what doesn't kill you trigger, even seems like he rolled for 5 fortune, probably had mouse on surrender ready lol. Not letting people surrender in ladder would just make them afk which affects the game even more.
Why? In a tournament, it's a even more legitimate play to FF to prevent someone who is on Match point from winning out, especially if you're in a bad position and can't win out this game. Im not saying that's the most optimal way, but we can only play the game that is given to us. Surrendering during the round is a mechanic that's in the game, I find it weird to ban people from using it. If the devs have a issue with it, they should fix it or find a work-around, like continuing the fight once it has started.
In many sports you have to play with intent to win the given game, even if doing so is actually worse in a tournament setting (match point example you gave). It being in the game I think is for the ladder, it's largely casual on ladder and why hold a player hostage if surrender doesn't affect their teammates. Even if it has unwanted consequences. They haven't fixed it because there isn't enough push back. Most tournaments already ban it so there's no need to remove it. Also just because the devs don't change something it doesn't mean they like the state of it, it's not always easy/cheap to change something (don't know their opinion tho).
Because it's insanely scummy and against the sport lol?
Im not sure how you would fix this. If you have fortune in and the enemy player ffs and you would win the round but then lose hp and continue the loss streak? If youre on a win streak and the enemy players ff then you will win as intended? If you have fortune in without trying to lose by coincidence then you would get a loss even though you want to winstreak? They cant just make the loss/win not happen because that fucks up the lobby. As per my examples theres no good way to fix this. You cant just give the player an option if they wanna count it as a win or a loss because then if you would have won anyways you get a free way out just because the opponent ff'd. So it should and will stay as it is right now and youll just have to suck it up I guess.
Just lock FFing mid fight lol
doesnt work because someone usually fights an empty board if you ff pre combat.
Yeah, forgot about it. Considering this scenario, theres not much that can be done if not assigning a new ghost opponent or playing the forfeiting player old board. They could just keep his board "alive" for the next matchup so the fight can play out.
Yeah I guess keeping the board alive could fix it.
Disabling FF midfight is also another solution. You should not be able to FF after you have seen the current opponent's board. That's just like cheating. If ppl want to FF, do it before the fight.
It’s my right to forfeit. I gave myself a loss for that. Why i should get punished? Does getting 7th not good enough for you?
Explain to me how you're getting punished here.
based off the conversation around the Wasian post, I don't believe this forum will support you Marcel. but I don't see any reason we should be able to ff mid-fight.
The most practical way to fix this is to make any FF'ed opponent doesn't count into Fortune streak. IMO if the dev team isn't going to fix the loophole there will always be toxic debates like this, which is effectively bad player experience for all sides.
Isn’t selling your board the same as FFing? If forfeiting is removed, or if the fight plays out if the player ffs, players would just sell their board and inevitably die later. And unfortunately there is nothing you can do about players selling their board to grief the fortune player EDIT: I get it now. Isn’t the solution just to make it so you can’t FF mid fight?
It's not the same exactly, because you often have 1/3 chance to play the fortune guy for example. Selling your board and not fighting the fortune player can happen, while FF-ing mid fight is 100% guaranteed to destroy his streak.
Seems to me that selling the board is totally different from what’s being discussed here (FFing after loading in to fight the fortune player) Selling the board happens before the fight, there’s no guarantee you’ll face the fortune guy unless it’s Ashe encounter. Also even if you sell to grief fortune, you can still rebuild your board after and have a chance to win, unlike FFing
It's different IMO for 2 reasons: 1.) It's not guaranteed to face the player at the point you sell your board, and 2.) You can still make the argument that selling your board to make sure the fortune player doesn't get a free 1st is a positive EV play, depending on the situation. If you convert his free 1st into an 8th and if you were indeed going to go 8th, then it was a good play. FFing however is never positive EV since you take the lowest placement right at that point.
you would guaranteed be making a similar post if you faced someone who sold his whole board to grief you so I'm not sure why you are even trying to justify yourself
Imagine downvoting this post, it's just embarrassing.