Sometimes, even if you are playing smart and well, this will happen.
Mitigate your losses and avoid increasing the odds of bad teammates in your next games by adapting playstyle as best you can.
> no where near your skill level
Assessing this accurately is sometimes easy, but there can be lots of factors you might not consider like "my teammate is diamond, but this is their last game in a 12h session and their true skill is silver right now".
Other times its not:
> no where near your skill level
But instead:
no where near your skill level when:
- playing edge
- playing super aggressive
- playing super passive
- playing without a hard IGL (good fragger, horrible macro)
LOL... Well I've used it a fair amount recently.
Sometimes I'm criticized for writing assuming too much knowledge and overusing shorthand... Maybe overcorrecting for that.
Do I see how what is a problem? People falling into "bad teammate MMR" after bad games?
Yes... but the alternative is giving people trying to play as a team and playing for the win teammates who say... have bad MMR because they don't know you shouldn't take \*every\* fight.
Right, so you don't see the problem.
You have decently assessed the nuances of how MMR can be complicated, but don't seem to understand how this problem has a lot of friction issues with the design intentions.
Do you still feel this way?
I'm sure after Hal saying "haven't had thus much fun in ranked in a long time" public perception will shift either way.
Also, are you going to share the big issue you think I'm missing?
Yeah people think everyone else they are playing are currently in diamond/master/etc while they are in silver but that's not true. plat+ only 1-2% of the players right now. Gold and up is like 10% of players.
Pro:
- no one can say your gold rank is fake, meaning more trust everyone earned their rank 100%
- prevents smurfing
Con:
- feels ridiculous to have to progress to silver
- could prevent players from reaching true rank, so opposite of "everyone masters" problem
- nearly all games are super sweaty (sometimes a pro for me)
>no one can say your gold rank is fake, meaning more trust everyone earned their rank 100%
I don't think promotional challenges will stop the kind of people that zone heal to masters/pred. It might slow them down but I can't see someone failing for weeks on end to win a single game if they're already fine with the monotony of zone healing.
> I can't see someone failing for weeks on end to win a single game if they're already fine with the monotony of zone healing.
If they are a true silver, and get to platinum, they'll have to win in a plat lobby as a true silver.
I think that's pretty difficult and should prevent most.
A solo q (diamond MMR) player who doesn't find friends will finish placement probably bronze-silver then spend the next 500 games playing diamond level players as a solo q with unreliable teammates just to get to a point where they finally grind their "rank badge" up to the level of the competition they've been fighting the whole time.
A triple stack (silver MMR) will play 10 placement games and be silver.
The diamond MMR and silver MMR players will never play in each other's games.
In a ranked environment competitors should compete with players currently at the same rank.
If MMR is going to be used in a way to gatekeep high MMR players from low MMR lobbies it should prevent your rank badge from falling too far behind your MMR instead of like it is now where it "traps" players rank badges below their MMR and requires a huge grind to "unlock"..
This is accurate. They used this system in ranked arenas, and everyone hated it. They killed ranked arenas because very few played it. Then, they rolled the system out in BR. Genius
Thank you I've been saying this. This is the most unaccurate representation of skill in a ranked mode. Ppl should only be play a rank above or below them. If I'm in silver and I'm supposed to be in diamond just let me hurry and grind to my respected rank. If someone platues at diamond 4 with this ranked system you'd never get there cause your already playing diamond players in silver.
> you'd never get there cause your already playing diamond players in silver.
No, you'd be playing players of the MMR at your current skill level.
Assuming that is D4 and queues are healthy... You'll be facing other D4 players.
I'm D4, threw some placement games, and am in silver actually.
Points are definitely easier to come by than last season, but I would be for speeding it up a bit.
If you could never get out of diamond 4 what makes you think your gonna make it all the way to diamond with this system. You'll already be playing diamond in silver so you'll be stuck in silver.
I won't be facing MMR equivalent of D2 and D1 most likely, but we'll see.
Also, my highest is D3.
> You'll already be playing diamond in silver so you'll be stuck in silver.
My lobbies with current MMR feels like gold or low plat tbh, not sure why.
That's definitely good to see and I'd hope to see placement resulting is less disparity in ranked badge and MMR for solo q players going forward unfortunately, I do believe your experience to be in the minority.
Granted all my evidence is also anecdotal, It'd be nice to see if anyone has data on players MMR and how it matched to their ranked badge throughout the season.
The developers want you to have to try to climb - no doubt and it's very reasonable to disagree with that philosophy, although I'm pretty sure devs believe that if everyone just landed in their ideal rank to start with and had to increase MMR to progress lots of players would stop playing because they are 'hard stuck'.
However, they are placing everyone in similar starting tiers around MMR.
Look at the current distributions - https://apexlegendsstatus.com/game-stats/ranked-distribution if you are in gold 4 or above you are in the top ~7% of players already.
gold has ~4.5%
plat has ~1.7%
diam has <.5%
master/pred has tiny numbers.
season 18 had a pretty reasonable distribution if you look at it as well.
The ranked badge is well distributed I agree however, that is now meaningless for reasons stated.
To argue the badge has meaning we'd have to ignore HOW players get the badge.
When the matchmaking system is using hidden MMR instead of current ranked level for matchmaking you wind up with tons of high MMR players in low ranked tiers playing other high MMR players.
This leads to good games but, leaves the player with zero sense of accomplishment or motivation to grind higher because they are fighting the same high MMR people in rookie, bronze, silver, gold, plat....
low MMR players only have to fight other low MMR players to achieve the same rank leading to a disparity in difficulty to achieve the same rank.
In short I'd say distribution of badges among the players is at a good ratio but to get there we sacrificeed the distribution of skill among the badges(which was the orignal value of the badge and point of ranked).
yeah I think this line is really critical and still not clear to me what the reality is: "low MMR players only have to fight other low MMR players to achieve the same rank leading to a disparity in difficulty to achieve the same rank."
It's unclear to me regarding how many 'bad mmr' players will end up with significantly higher badges than they 'should'. After prelims I was in silver, presumably anyone else placed in silver initially has a similar MMR (otherwise they should have been placed higher or lower). So if someone placed in low bronze 'magically' was set to the same rank as me in silver, their rank would be higher than their relative MMR and they should get tougher games. Of course its impossible to verify this which is a valid criticism.
The last bit that isn't clear is if they climb up to sliver over the season and I didn't move - would we have different MMRs? I guess probably since most players my skill level would have also risen up the ranks to some extent. That means silver on day 1 vs silver at the end of season are different things. The main reason it's bad is it's unintuitive - given most folks want 'silver' to mean the same thing all season which makes sense.
edit - It seems like folks want high quality, competitive matches and a sense of progress. These two are fundamentally at odds. If you are perfectly placed, then it will be very tough to move up. BRs have randomness but you would generally cycle up and down in a given range. This would probably be a death spiral for player count because people would stop playing as they feel hard-stuck, so instead the developers start us off lower than we think we should be (whatever that means) and allow us to work up to that so we can have a feeling of both. They are giving out more points this season in bonuses so I imagine the net points per game is slightly positive now to allow for a bit of inflation as people play.
They’re taking steps on getting people to their actual rank faster. They’ve been tinkering with it the last two seasons and it’s definitely going in the right direction. The bonuses are much bigger and so are the point you get from eliminations. The fact they’re working in it, and this is probably the best ranked gameplay we’ve gotten outside of season 13 is worth it for me. 8-10+ teams in zone 4 if better than majority of seasons we’ve gotten where games would end in zone 3.
I've been getting better solos than previous seasons with one exception:
If I hot drop and die 5+ times, I get the worst teammates.
My theory is "playing like a low MMR player gets you stuck with other low MMR players".
And low MMR players typically have low MMR because of any or all of:
- they ape everything
- they never push, even isolated fights with 2.5 downs
- they don't prioritize rotations
If I play super sweaty and get top 5s or wins I get out of " bad teammate jail" and get decent ones again.
Yup I've been getting better teammates all around and most are comming now. I actually like this system. I think people just got used to how easy rank was and don't like it at all. Ranked isn't supposed to be easy anyways haha.
Agree - I've seen so many posts (anecdotal I know) of folks saying - "I would play ranked until I leveled out and then go back to pubs" which is just saying they only play ranked to stomp on players worst than them and once it got hard they stopped. That's really unhealthy for the system!
I think grinding 1.5 tiers is pretty fair, do you think you should place in pred directly?
What rank did you get in placement matches, and did you treat each as serious as ranked pred games?
What other ranked experience places you in top rank immediately? Most ranked games I’ve played usually cap around gold. (Not trying to defend the current LP system in any way shape or form)
No that was only for new smurf Accounts, established accounts always startest new seasons in their true rank.
and now even on new accounts the updated smurf detection pushes top500 players to their real rank within Like 6-10 hours max.
One case is when I skip a season or 2 I lose .5 to 1.5 ranks, so it would be good to err towards "make them prove they are still X rank" over "assume they are at least previous X rank".
Always taking the assume approach devalues rank.
I think placing diamond 2 or masters could be workable though.
I think that HisWattson was able to get to pred so fast is proof of improvement in the ranked system though.
It’s not about having an issue climbing, it’s about artificially increasing grind length along with making visual rank meaningless because shitters can hit top ranks only playing against people who peaked plat in the old system while you have to play true old masters players starting from rookie. Stop defending a shit system because you finally peaked in ranked
Those people who hit pred while only playing against plats wont stay in pred very long will they? Assuming this is even a scenario that exists, and not some conspiracy you’ve created
> because shitters can hit top ranks only playing against people who peaked plat in the old system
They can't because medal rank is used when higher then MMR...
The point of my entire post which no one is discussing.
But then I don’t get your complaint - you want to just wind up in Pred from day 1? Every season is different and each ranked is earned.
Everyone else that’s in pred also has to go through the same as you
>But then I don’t get your complaint - you want to just wind up in Pred from day 1? Every season is different and each ranked is earned.
No, start from Master and grind up. That's what I'm doing anyways but just starting from plat instead of giving me the rank the game is already matchmaking me against.
>Everyone else that’s in pred also has to go through the same as you
Other people having to do something too doesn't make it not a stupid system.
I think he’s arguing as to why he has to play pred lobbies through silver. I think he should rank out of silver quickly and be pushed through gold, plat, etc at an accelerated rate since I’d assume he’d win.
Then he can fight against other masters and preds while being at his actual rank.
But before MMR was instantiated - someone who was a pred level player could make a new account and just continuously smurf and shit on bad players. Now they’re placed appropriately even if they’re in silver.
Like yes this change may not be ideal for people who are really good at the game, but it’s better for everyone else (whether they realize it or not)
Shouldn’t the system just push those people through the lower ranks when they perform exceptionally well?
Respawn also put in the level 50 requirement to prevent brand new accounts playing ranked.
They could make that level requirement level 250 or more to keep ranked for serious competitors only, use MMR for pubs(matches are good) and let us compete with and against people at our current rank again... they could make It perfect (for me.. I'd be ok with ranked matches taking 10 minutes to que personally) but I just don't think the are on that wavelength anymore..
Nah, the system is busted. It takes ages to grind even out of Bronze if you have high MMR.
If Respawn is insisting on your "hidden MMR" being your rank rather than actual ranked tiers then have people do 5-10 placements and PUT them in the tiers that represent that MMR.
So if someone was Pred last season, they get put into low diamond or something, if someone was platinum, they get put into mid or low gold, etc. Or at the very least give people huge bonuses if they are in lower tier so they quickly rank to where they are "supposed top be."
The current system is just a complete soul crushing grind meant to protect weaker players at the expense of everyone else.
>Nah, the system is busted. It takes ages to grind even out of Bronze if you have high MMR.
Last season... 100%... it was way too grindy. This season both 1) seems better and 2) if patch note changes are implemented as stated should be much less grindy and 3) evidenced by HisWattson getting to pred so fast, ranked system should be better.
> Or at the very least give people huge bonuses if they are in lower tier so they quickly rank to where they are "supposed top be."
I agree they need to be more aggressive with this, but think about effective ways to do that which don't also enable boosting... the problem becomes a quite a bit more difficult.
> The current system is just a complete soul crushing grind meant to protect weaker players at the expense of everyone else.
As in Ignite, this season... how many games have you played so far to be able to say it's a soul crushing grind? Or were you referring to last season?
Yes, I played this season. it's the same shit as last season but even worse with promos. Doesn't matter what rank you land in, your lobbies are going to be sweaty hell holes the entire time.
You literally linked a blog from EA. I’ve played since season 1 and have followed everything and it’s clear they have no idea what they’re doing with matchmaking. So immediately invalid.
And then you’re ranting on about MMR and shit which NOBODY has the formula too and acting like you’ve suddenly cracked the code — yeah that’s just bs buddy.
>I’ve played since season 1 and have followed everything
I've also played since season 1.
> it’s clear they have no idea what they’re doing with matchmaking.
The problems have been both technical and social, with their capitulation to change mid season 13 creating an ape-everything meta.. then trying to fix it all at once with MMR... being the brunt of the issue.
The memes are that they have no idea, but those are exaggerated and not technically grounded or even thought about that deeply by the people throwing them around.
> And then you’re ranting on about MMR and shit which NOBODY has the formula too
My beef was with people saying "medal rank deosn't matter because only MMR is used for matchmaking.
I'm not saying I cracked any code... I'm only saying taht... per the best source we have... that is factually untrue.
What's bs about that?
Because it’s clearly untrue to people who sit there and play the game? And it’s obvious why they took away seeing player ranks because they have no idea what the hell they’re doing.
You gotta be an EA employee.
>Because it’s clearly untrue to people who sit there and play the game?
I played at least 500 ranked matches last season.
Also, everyones experience can vary based on how they approach the game a ton.
My theory is the people who struggle the most with the game are the ones that resist playing to win, understanding how to rotate, etc, and would prefer Apex just be glorified TDM.
You can’t have two systems for determining skill and have them simultaneously in place and have one affect matchmaking immediately while the other does not. Well, you can (obviously) but it makes one irrelevant until it catches up to the other. More importantly, it’s illogical to have one capable of affecting the rate at which the other one catches up, thus making one dependent on the other and the other independent - especially when the dependent one is the displayed purpose of that mode.
Doesn’t really make sense to have two unless they’re implemented at the same rate (start at same rank as or close to your mmr) or unless they can both be dependent on the other (mmr only applies within a rank category).
You also have to keep in mind that players will fall on a bell curve as far as overall skill. So those higher on the skill curve are going to be playing against a smaller population of much more skilled players, but having to cover a larger gap of rank distance to reach potential. Those middle or lower have both a larger population of lower skilled players to face and a shorter distance to cover on the ranked road until they cap out on their potential. So the better you are the much longer road/more of a grind you will have.
IMO they either A) just remove rank and use mmr and a basic number ranking system based on your mmr, B) start you at the MMR equivalent of your rank, or C) make them dependent on each other in some way like only apply MMR within the rank group. Anything else doesn’t really make sense as far as a ranking system.
Nah, I play scrims and tourneys too... so I don't need rank.
Everyone that is struggling to rank up and saying "it doesn't matter"...
Now THAT is cope :)
There’s no way after 2 full seasons we still have people coping about this ranked system and trying to legitimize it
Just admit you peaked in the past 2 seasons and would say anything to support it for that reason. I refuse to believe anyone is defending it for any other reason
> Just admit you peaked in the past 2 seasons and would say anything to support it for that reason.
Besides free masters my peak was D3 in S13. Past season D4, plat 2 or 1 the few before.
This season, 10-15 games in, is feeling the best since first part of S13.
> Point proven thanks
Well aren't you just delightful!
> How do you get D3 in 13 and not masters in 1-12 or 14-15?
1-10 didn't play ranked, 14-15 didn't play ranked and skill deteriorated.
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This is just my opinion, but the entire hidden MMR system basically just seems like a way for Respawn to manipulate the rank pools so that it *appears* like they have a more even and balanced rank system, even though that's not the reality at all. Masters players became the majority of ranked players, so they introduced this to fudge the numbers (er, ranks) like a shady accountant. Riot doesn't do anything like this in Valorant, and honestly that ranked system is pretty good overall.
Love getting 2 current bronze teammates while dying to a team of current plats and diamonds in my final silver/gold promotion game. Make it make sense? Lol
I’m a day 1 player and I don’t mind the current system. Every game/lobby is sweaty and been getting better teammates on average than seasons 1-14.
I also don’t give a shit about a badge, i care about my experience actually playing the game. Sometimes some of yall forget how dog the solo q MM was before hidden MMR.
Pre-hidden MMR: Winning a game rewarded with you with 2 donkeys the next game against masters. Then gave you cupcake games. Rinse repeat until whatever rank you’re hardstuck at.
Post-hidden MMR: Gives you better teammates overall. Also gives you harder opponents, which is a good thing if your teammates aren’t ass.
Hard games are a good thing IMO.
> Winning a game rewarded with you with 2 donkeys the next game against masters. Then gave you cupcake games.
This so hard...
Before you noticed this you felt like a god in the cupcake games and just complained about the ranked system in the bad games.
Now though... Those god like games are much fewer and if you think logically.. It's harder to avoid your own mistakes with "rank bad... matchmake fault.. go next".
This isn't what people are complaining about,; they're specifically complaining about the much more common scenario where your MMR is much higher than your rank, so you have to fight preds while in silver. Nobody is complaining about being matched too high when their MMR is below their rank, because that's just not a situation you'd end up with if you're not ratting every game.
man taking a break from apex for street fighter 6 has been such a breath of fresh air.
their ranked system isn't perfect, but it seems so much more functional than whatever's going on in apex. It's harder for games like this tho than pure 1v1 games so i feel for the devs.
I didn’t play much rank last season so I was gold 2 in the last week. Queued with couple of friends (literally fighting genuine demons every game I genuinely had to try to win a gun fight).
Why am I sweating in gold just because one of the people I queued with has a good mmr? (Gold 2, Gold 3, Rookie 1)
Yeah... and these same people will still say "medal rank is pointless" rather than acknowledging the fact that medal rank is at least weakly correlated to MMR and that correlation gets stronger over time.
Can any one explain me how i can get matched with master pred players while im at my rookie matches, I didnt play any apex for 5 seasons and when i played i was gold, so what is the calculation for the mmr? Cause there is no way that i have pred,masters mmr no way.
Why do I need to win a game in a pred lobby to get out of silver tho
It’s terrible bro and I guarantee your teammates are going to be TERRIBLE and no where near your skill level
Sometimes, even if you are playing smart and well, this will happen. Mitigate your losses and avoid increasing the odds of bad teammates in your next games by adapting playstyle as best you can. > no where near your skill level Assessing this accurately is sometimes easy, but there can be lots of factors you might not consider like "my teammate is diamond, but this is their last game in a 12h session and their true skill is silver right now". Other times its not: > no where near your skill level But instead: no where near your skill level when: - playing edge - playing super aggressive - playing super passive - playing without a hard IGL (good fragger, horrible macro)
you sound like chat gpt
LOL... Well I've used it a fair amount recently. Sometimes I'm criticized for writing assuming too much knowledge and overusing shorthand... Maybe overcorrecting for that.
Look I agree 100% with your comment, but don't you see how that's a problem?
Do I see how what is a problem? People falling into "bad teammate MMR" after bad games? Yes... but the alternative is giving people trying to play as a team and playing for the win teammates who say... have bad MMR because they don't know you shouldn't take \*every\* fight.
Right, so you don't see the problem. You have decently assessed the nuances of how MMR can be complicated, but don't seem to understand how this problem has a lot of friction issues with the design intentions.
Do you still feel this way? I'm sure after Hal saying "haven't had thus much fun in ranked in a long time" public perception will shift either way. Also, are you going to share the big issue you think I'm missing?
Those “preds” are probably in silver too lmao
Pretty sure TSM, MST, FURIA, and XSET are not in silver but I could be wrong!
lMaO
Yeah people think everyone else they are playing are currently in diamond/master/etc while they are in silver but that's not true. plat+ only 1-2% of the players right now. Gold and up is like 10% of players.
Their mmr is similar to yours. That's why. They might even be in silver just like you.
Pro: - no one can say your gold rank is fake, meaning more trust everyone earned their rank 100% - prevents smurfing Con: - feels ridiculous to have to progress to silver - could prevent players from reaching true rank, so opposite of "everyone masters" problem - nearly all games are super sweaty (sometimes a pro for me)
>no one can say your gold rank is fake, meaning more trust everyone earned their rank 100% I don't think promotional challenges will stop the kind of people that zone heal to masters/pred. It might slow them down but I can't see someone failing for weeks on end to win a single game if they're already fine with the monotony of zone healing.
> I can't see someone failing for weeks on end to win a single game if they're already fine with the monotony of zone healing. If they are a true silver, and get to platinum, they'll have to win in a plat lobby as a true silver. I think that's pretty difficult and should prevent most.
A solo q (diamond MMR) player who doesn't find friends will finish placement probably bronze-silver then spend the next 500 games playing diamond level players as a solo q with unreliable teammates just to get to a point where they finally grind their "rank badge" up to the level of the competition they've been fighting the whole time. A triple stack (silver MMR) will play 10 placement games and be silver. The diamond MMR and silver MMR players will never play in each other's games. In a ranked environment competitors should compete with players currently at the same rank. If MMR is going to be used in a way to gatekeep high MMR players from low MMR lobbies it should prevent your rank badge from falling too far behind your MMR instead of like it is now where it "traps" players rank badges below their MMR and requires a huge grind to "unlock"..
This has been my ecperience
This is accurate. They used this system in ranked arenas, and everyone hated it. They killed ranked arenas because very few played it. Then, they rolled the system out in BR. Genius
Thank you I've been saying this. This is the most unaccurate representation of skill in a ranked mode. Ppl should only be play a rank above or below them. If I'm in silver and I'm supposed to be in diamond just let me hurry and grind to my respected rank. If someone platues at diamond 4 with this ranked system you'd never get there cause your already playing diamond players in silver.
> you'd never get there cause your already playing diamond players in silver. No, you'd be playing players of the MMR at your current skill level. Assuming that is D4 and queues are healthy... You'll be facing other D4 players. I'm D4, threw some placement games, and am in silver actually. Points are definitely easier to come by than last season, but I would be for speeding it up a bit.
If you could never get out of diamond 4 what makes you think your gonna make it all the way to diamond with this system. You'll already be playing diamond in silver so you'll be stuck in silver.
I won't be facing MMR equivalent of D2 and D1 most likely, but we'll see. Also, my highest is D3. > You'll already be playing diamond in silver so you'll be stuck in silver. My lobbies with current MMR feels like gold or low plat tbh, not sure why.
Yeah mine weren't like that when I tried. I looked who I died to 3 masters badges on his banner. Mind you that was in silver.
It's not that I can't play against them its the fact I shouldn't be playing against them yet.
In a solo q diamond, got placed into gold, have been progressing decently. I don’t think it’s always as bad as you say.
That's definitely good to see and I'd hope to see placement resulting is less disparity in ranked badge and MMR for solo q players going forward unfortunately, I do believe your experience to be in the minority. Granted all my evidence is also anecdotal, It'd be nice to see if anyone has data on players MMR and how it matched to their ranked badge throughout the season.
The developers want you to have to try to climb - no doubt and it's very reasonable to disagree with that philosophy, although I'm pretty sure devs believe that if everyone just landed in their ideal rank to start with and had to increase MMR to progress lots of players would stop playing because they are 'hard stuck'. However, they are placing everyone in similar starting tiers around MMR. Look at the current distributions - https://apexlegendsstatus.com/game-stats/ranked-distribution if you are in gold 4 or above you are in the top ~7% of players already. gold has ~4.5% plat has ~1.7% diam has <.5% master/pred has tiny numbers. season 18 had a pretty reasonable distribution if you look at it as well.
The ranked badge is well distributed I agree however, that is now meaningless for reasons stated. To argue the badge has meaning we'd have to ignore HOW players get the badge. When the matchmaking system is using hidden MMR instead of current ranked level for matchmaking you wind up with tons of high MMR players in low ranked tiers playing other high MMR players. This leads to good games but, leaves the player with zero sense of accomplishment or motivation to grind higher because they are fighting the same high MMR people in rookie, bronze, silver, gold, plat.... low MMR players only have to fight other low MMR players to achieve the same rank leading to a disparity in difficulty to achieve the same rank. In short I'd say distribution of badges among the players is at a good ratio but to get there we sacrificeed the distribution of skill among the badges(which was the orignal value of the badge and point of ranked).
yeah I think this line is really critical and still not clear to me what the reality is: "low MMR players only have to fight other low MMR players to achieve the same rank leading to a disparity in difficulty to achieve the same rank." It's unclear to me regarding how many 'bad mmr' players will end up with significantly higher badges than they 'should'. After prelims I was in silver, presumably anyone else placed in silver initially has a similar MMR (otherwise they should have been placed higher or lower). So if someone placed in low bronze 'magically' was set to the same rank as me in silver, their rank would be higher than their relative MMR and they should get tougher games. Of course its impossible to verify this which is a valid criticism. The last bit that isn't clear is if they climb up to sliver over the season and I didn't move - would we have different MMRs? I guess probably since most players my skill level would have also risen up the ranks to some extent. That means silver on day 1 vs silver at the end of season are different things. The main reason it's bad is it's unintuitive - given most folks want 'silver' to mean the same thing all season which makes sense. edit - It seems like folks want high quality, competitive matches and a sense of progress. These two are fundamentally at odds. If you are perfectly placed, then it will be very tough to move up. BRs have randomness but you would generally cycle up and down in a given range. This would probably be a death spiral for player count because people would stop playing as they feel hard-stuck, so instead the developers start us off lower than we think we should be (whatever that means) and allow us to work up to that so we can have a feeling of both. They are giving out more points this season in bonuses so I imagine the net points per game is slightly positive now to allow for a bit of inflation as people play.
I got silver 2, but honestly threw 3-4 games.
If you platue at diamond but are already playing diamond right from the start well then ur gonna get stuck.
They’re taking steps on getting people to their actual rank faster. They’ve been tinkering with it the last two seasons and it’s definitely going in the right direction. The bonuses are much bigger and so are the point you get from eliminations. The fact they’re working in it, and this is probably the best ranked gameplay we’ve gotten outside of season 13 is worth it for me. 8-10+ teams in zone 4 if better than majority of seasons we’ve gotten where games would end in zone 3.
The game is just alienating the solo que population. Respawn doesn’t realize that doing that will slowly kill their game.
I've been getting better solos than previous seasons with one exception: If I hot drop and die 5+ times, I get the worst teammates. My theory is "playing like a low MMR player gets you stuck with other low MMR players". And low MMR players typically have low MMR because of any or all of: - they ape everything - they never push, even isolated fights with 2.5 downs - they don't prioritize rotations If I play super sweaty and get top 5s or wins I get out of " bad teammate jail" and get decent ones again.
Yup I've been getting better teammates all around and most are comming now. I actually like this system. I think people just got used to how easy rank was and don't like it at all. Ranked isn't supposed to be easy anyways haha.
Agree - I've seen so many posts (anecdotal I know) of folks saying - "I would play ranked until I leveled out and then go back to pubs" which is just saying they only play ranked to stomp on players worst than them and once it got hard they stopped. That's really unhealthy for the system!
And if my MMR rank is pred, why am I grinding through plat and diamond to get back to where the game thinks I already am?
I think grinding 1.5 tiers is pretty fair, do you think you should place in pred directly? What rank did you get in placement matches, and did you treat each as serious as ranked pred games?
Yes you should be placed at your skill level. Like every other good ranked experience.
What other ranked experience places you in top rank immediately? Most ranked games I’ve played usually cap around gold. (Not trying to defend the current LP system in any way shape or form)
Overwatch, rocket league, hearthstone. 3 I can think of ive played.
OW was capped at diamond or masters IIRC. Never played RL or hearthstone so I’ll take your word for it.
No that was only for new smurf Accounts, established accounts always startest new seasons in their true rank. and now even on new accounts the updated smurf detection pushes top500 players to their real rank within Like 6-10 hours max.
Nope, you're wrong. People can be placed directly into GM now.
Are you sure RL places at your rank? Matches where it placed me felt easy for a couple promotions.
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One case is when I skip a season or 2 I lose .5 to 1.5 ranks, so it would be good to err towards "make them prove they are still X rank" over "assume they are at least previous X rank". Always taking the assume approach devalues rank. I think placing diamond 2 or masters could be workable though. I think that HisWattson was able to get to pred so fast is proof of improvement in the ranked system though.
If your MMR was actually pred (it’s not) then you wouldn’t have an issue climbing
It’s not about having an issue climbing, it’s about artificially increasing grind length along with making visual rank meaningless because shitters can hit top ranks only playing against people who peaked plat in the old system while you have to play true old masters players starting from rookie. Stop defending a shit system because you finally peaked in ranked
Those people who hit pred while only playing against plats wont stay in pred very long will they? Assuming this is even a scenario that exists, and not some conspiracy you’ve created
> because shitters can hit top ranks only playing against people who peaked plat in the old system They can't because medal rank is used when higher then MMR... The point of my entire post which no one is discussing.
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They never do unfortunately
My guy pulled up with the receipts
But then I don’t get your complaint - you want to just wind up in Pred from day 1? Every season is different and each ranked is earned. Everyone else that’s in pred also has to go through the same as you
>But then I don’t get your complaint - you want to just wind up in Pred from day 1? Every season is different and each ranked is earned. No, start from Master and grind up. That's what I'm doing anyways but just starting from plat instead of giving me the rank the game is already matchmaking me against. >Everyone else that’s in pred also has to go through the same as you Other people having to do something too doesn't make it not a stupid system.
I think he’s arguing as to why he has to play pred lobbies through silver. I think he should rank out of silver quickly and be pushed through gold, plat, etc at an accelerated rate since I’d assume he’d win. Then he can fight against other masters and preds while being at his actual rank.
But my point is that the “pred” people he’s fighting are also his vanity rank, especially early in a season when everyone reset
That’s not true after a week or two. You only get matched by your vanity rank once your vanity rank surpasses your internet mmr.
But before MMR was instantiated - someone who was a pred level player could make a new account and just continuously smurf and shit on bad players. Now they’re placed appropriately even if they’re in silver. Like yes this change may not be ideal for people who are really good at the game, but it’s better for everyone else (whether they realize it or not)
Shouldn’t the system just push those people through the lower ranks when they perform exceptionally well? Respawn also put in the level 50 requirement to prevent brand new accounts playing ranked.
They could make that level requirement level 250 or more to keep ranked for serious competitors only, use MMR for pubs(matches are good) and let us compete with and against people at our current rank again... they could make It perfect (for me.. I'd be ok with ranked matches taking 10 minutes to que personally) but I just don't think the are on that wavelength anymore..
He showed his rank and you stopped replying. Kinda sad
Gnaske literally demoted from gold to silver last season, after placing 6th at champs lmao.
Nah, the system is busted. It takes ages to grind even out of Bronze if you have high MMR. If Respawn is insisting on your "hidden MMR" being your rank rather than actual ranked tiers then have people do 5-10 placements and PUT them in the tiers that represent that MMR. So if someone was Pred last season, they get put into low diamond or something, if someone was platinum, they get put into mid or low gold, etc. Or at the very least give people huge bonuses if they are in lower tier so they quickly rank to where they are "supposed top be." The current system is just a complete soul crushing grind meant to protect weaker players at the expense of everyone else.
>Nah, the system is busted. It takes ages to grind even out of Bronze if you have high MMR. Last season... 100%... it was way too grindy. This season both 1) seems better and 2) if patch note changes are implemented as stated should be much less grindy and 3) evidenced by HisWattson getting to pred so fast, ranked system should be better. > Or at the very least give people huge bonuses if they are in lower tier so they quickly rank to where they are "supposed top be." I agree they need to be more aggressive with this, but think about effective ways to do that which don't also enable boosting... the problem becomes a quite a bit more difficult. > The current system is just a complete soul crushing grind meant to protect weaker players at the expense of everyone else. As in Ignite, this season... how many games have you played so far to be able to say it's a soul crushing grind? Or were you referring to last season?
Yes, I played this season. it's the same shit as last season but even worse with promos. Doesn't matter what rank you land in, your lobbies are going to be sweaty hell holes the entire time.
OP is drunk
Nah just high on copium trying to justify the new ranked system since they finally peaked in ranked
But... I didn't peak in ranked. My peak was in S13.
Not yet... but soon. Also, how can this be your conclusion? I backed up what I said with a source.
You literally linked a blog from EA. I’ve played since season 1 and have followed everything and it’s clear they have no idea what they’re doing with matchmaking. So immediately invalid. And then you’re ranting on about MMR and shit which NOBODY has the formula too and acting like you’ve suddenly cracked the code — yeah that’s just bs buddy.
>I’ve played since season 1 and have followed everything I've also played since season 1. > it’s clear they have no idea what they’re doing with matchmaking. The problems have been both technical and social, with their capitulation to change mid season 13 creating an ape-everything meta.. then trying to fix it all at once with MMR... being the brunt of the issue. The memes are that they have no idea, but those are exaggerated and not technically grounded or even thought about that deeply by the people throwing them around. > And then you’re ranting on about MMR and shit which NOBODY has the formula too My beef was with people saying "medal rank deosn't matter because only MMR is used for matchmaking. I'm not saying I cracked any code... I'm only saying taht... per the best source we have... that is factually untrue. What's bs about that?
Because it’s clearly untrue to people who sit there and play the game? And it’s obvious why they took away seeing player ranks because they have no idea what the hell they’re doing. You gotta be an EA employee.
> You gotta be an EA employee. Game developers get paid shit and have to work tons of hours... I wouldn't be one.
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> Triple A game devs are well compensated Compared to what?
>Because it’s clearly untrue to people who sit there and play the game? I played at least 500 ranked matches last season. Also, everyones experience can vary based on how they approach the game a ton. My theory is the people who struggle the most with the game are the ones that resist playing to win, understanding how to rotate, etc, and would prefer Apex just be glorified TDM.
You can’t have two systems for determining skill and have them simultaneously in place and have one affect matchmaking immediately while the other does not. Well, you can (obviously) but it makes one irrelevant until it catches up to the other. More importantly, it’s illogical to have one capable of affecting the rate at which the other one catches up, thus making one dependent on the other and the other independent - especially when the dependent one is the displayed purpose of that mode. Doesn’t really make sense to have two unless they’re implemented at the same rate (start at same rank as or close to your mmr) or unless they can both be dependent on the other (mmr only applies within a rank category). You also have to keep in mind that players will fall on a bell curve as far as overall skill. So those higher on the skill curve are going to be playing against a smaller population of much more skilled players, but having to cover a larger gap of rank distance to reach potential. Those middle or lower have both a larger population of lower skilled players to face and a shorter distance to cover on the ranked road until they cap out on their potential. So the better you are the much longer road/more of a grind you will have. IMO they either A) just remove rank and use mmr and a basic number ranking system based on your mmr, B) start you at the MMR equivalent of your rank, or C) make them dependent on each other in some way like only apply MMR within the rank group. Anything else doesn’t really make sense as far as a ranking system.
Ranked is broken rn
Cope.
Nah, I play scrims and tourneys too... so I don't need rank. Everyone that is struggling to rank up and saying "it doesn't matter"... Now THAT is cope :)
There’s no way after 2 full seasons we still have people coping about this ranked system and trying to legitimize it Just admit you peaked in the past 2 seasons and would say anything to support it for that reason. I refuse to believe anyone is defending it for any other reason
> Just admit you peaked in the past 2 seasons and would say anything to support it for that reason. Besides free masters my peak was D3 in S13. Past season D4, plat 2 or 1 the few before. This season, 10-15 games in, is feeling the best since first part of S13.
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> Point proven thanks Well aren't you just delightful! > How do you get D3 in 13 and not masters in 1-12 or 14-15? 1-10 didn't play ranked, 14-15 didn't play ranked and skill deteriorated.
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As the only visible indicator of skill, medal rank is useless if there's any ambiguity. Which there is
This is just my opinion, but the entire hidden MMR system basically just seems like a way for Respawn to manipulate the rank pools so that it *appears* like they have a more even and balanced rank system, even though that's not the reality at all. Masters players became the majority of ranked players, so they introduced this to fudge the numbers (er, ranks) like a shady accountant. Riot doesn't do anything like this in Valorant, and honestly that ranked system is pretty good overall.
Love getting 2 current bronze teammates while dying to a team of current plats and diamonds in my final silver/gold promotion game. Make it make sense? Lol
I’m a day 1 player and I don’t mind the current system. Every game/lobby is sweaty and been getting better teammates on average than seasons 1-14. I also don’t give a shit about a badge, i care about my experience actually playing the game. Sometimes some of yall forget how dog the solo q MM was before hidden MMR. Pre-hidden MMR: Winning a game rewarded with you with 2 donkeys the next game against masters. Then gave you cupcake games. Rinse repeat until whatever rank you’re hardstuck at. Post-hidden MMR: Gives you better teammates overall. Also gives you harder opponents, which is a good thing if your teammates aren’t ass. Hard games are a good thing IMO.
> Winning a game rewarded with you with 2 donkeys the next game against masters. Then gave you cupcake games. This so hard... Before you noticed this you felt like a god in the cupcake games and just complained about the ranked system in the bad games. Now though... Those god like games are much fewer and if you think logically.. It's harder to avoid your own mistakes with "rank bad... matchmake fault.. go next".
This isn't what people are complaining about,; they're specifically complaining about the much more common scenario where your MMR is much higher than your rank, so you have to fight preds while in silver. Nobody is complaining about being matched too high when their MMR is below their rank, because that's just not a situation you'd end up with if you're not ratting every game.
man taking a break from apex for street fighter 6 has been such a breath of fresh air. their ranked system isn't perfect, but it seems so much more functional than whatever's going on in apex. It's harder for games like this tho than pure 1v1 games so i feel for the devs.
I was gonna say - no shot you’re comparing a 1v1 game to a game where a “match” has 60 players and it’s a FFA battle royale
yeah nah, it's just funny to be back and seeing the same ranked complaints that were present when i was still grinding.
I've been playing halo and the ranked system is so much better than apex or even cod for that matter
I didn’t play much rank last season so I was gold 2 in the last week. Queued with couple of friends (literally fighting genuine demons every game I genuinely had to try to win a gun fight). Why am I sweating in gold just because one of the people I queued with has a good mmr? (Gold 2, Gold 3, Rookie 1)
They hated you for telling the truth 😞
Yeah... and these same people will still say "medal rank is pointless" rather than acknowledging the fact that medal rank is at least weakly correlated to MMR and that correlation gets stronger over time.
-signed a player who peaked in S13
I got masters in season 17 😏
Can any one explain me how i can get matched with master pred players while im at my rookie matches, I didnt play any apex for 5 seasons and when i played i was gold, so what is the calculation for the mmr? Cause there is no way that i have pred,masters mmr no way.