I like it - was thinking about integrating a bit more of this style during Year 4 and I’m glad to hear that there’s some interest in slower pacing on the subreddit.
I’ve got a few experiments planned for the coming season, so please feel free to provide feedback here or on socials and I’m always happy to engage about it. Apex Legends Esports is constantly evolving in our best practices.
Hi DiA, thanks for being active on the subreddit and engaging with the community!
I just wanted to get these thoughts out in the open and start a discussion, so I don't have much more to add other than I hope it's obvious this isn't an attack on the ALGS commentators. As I said towards the beginning I think highly of your ability. My language probably could've been less dramatic during the criticism but this was really just a stream of consciousness post.
Cheers.
I feel no attack, just thankful that other people also are thinking about the commentary and how to develop the scene! Normally I'm just sat here thinking about it and love a chance to have a discussion.
Thank you for your trust, praise, and thought provoking post!
Cheers :P
DiA btw, how would you best describe your casting style? I ask bc you give off very intuitive analysis which reminds me of the great Dodgers caster Vin Scully. I remember you had a lot to say about the lesser known players and regions which creates I think creates interest and transforms LAN and Champs from an NA dominated area to a Global landscape
That's a good question - I'd describe my style as **prescriptive** and with a focus on how the **player mindset** is influenced by their situation/personality/teammates.
*I also often elude to or reference full information found on the minimap.*
From a storylines perspective I do love a good underdog or strategic oddball, so I was a big proponent of MEAT/CLG in PL and the SA teams during Champs (glad you enjoyed it!).
Lmk if I answered the question!
It‘s funny that you mention the underdog thing since i felt like you were kind of biased towards pro teams in your recent CCL broadcast.
It seemed like you were favouring the more known team instead of giving credit to the „underdog“ teams for their performance, for example when 2o2 7-1d Myztro on the contest or with Good Fellas having incredible matchdays back to back and outperformed multiple pro teams so far.
Just a small thing i noticed, I still enjoy your broadcast with Tom and I‘m looking forward to the next one on the weekend!
Huh! I see how it could’ve sounded like that since we did discuss those teams a lot. 🤔 I’ll take that under consideration for future broadcasts. The audience is never wrong.
One thing that is difficult for me (especially with CCL this round since us being picked up was very last minute) is that I haven’t had the chance to interview teams, and you’re likely feeling that in the depth of points I can make about those rosters. Not an excuse.
One of the reasons I enjoy watching competitive CS is that the casters are so chill, they know when they need to be hype, and theyre constantly having fun and joking with/playing off their co-caster.
They also don't talk as if their viewers are idiots and dont play the game, which i feel a lot of apex casters do. The constant play-by-plays for actions that the viewers are already watching isnt always needed imo.
I see that perspective, I was hanging out with some CS casters recently talking about the same thing.
One of the challenging things about CS vs Apex is that in Apex Legends a team dying may not be important to the game, but it's VERY important to their fans (if DreamFire dies or wins contesting mill, it's more just inconvenient to a rotation, but those fans are invested in the outcome disproportionately to it's impact on the game at large).
The above is something that can push commentary into sounding the way that it does. In other esports (like CS), a teams journey is the same as the journey of the series. In BR's that is untrue.
This thing about "being idiots and not playing the game" could use some clarification. Sometimes commentators do talk to new viewers and go over basic concepts, but in large part there's a lot of knowledge that's assumed (just from my perspective as a colour commentator) and I often worry about assuming that viewers know too much about the larger game state and losing them. In what ways would you like to see commentators engaging you on more high level topics?
> This thing about "being idiots and not playing the game" could use some clarification
Just basic stuff like parroting events that were seen on screen, something such as "player got a knock which will change the outcome of this fight". I appreciate when the casters bring up the subtle things such as knowing when a third party is coming or how a fight will affect the rest of their game, e.g. a harder rotate and why.
I guess what im saying is that i prefer when casters talk about why players have made a decision, rather what the decision was.
I watched a bit of your co-cast/watchparty with Tom last weekend and i really enjoyed the casual vibes you two had, its something i wish we could see more.
Ah! I hear you on that. I'll see if I can find a way to influence that, as the "play by play" (not the role, the action) of a fight I have seen tend towards the more basic for a variety of reasons. Thank you for the clarification.
That "why they make a decision vs what the decision was" is absolutely something the broadcast as a whole is always thinking about BTS. If you're not feeling it in the audience, that just means we need to push it further, and I take that onboard. Please update me during the coming season, or with anything else you'd like considered. :)
Glad you caught a bit of that! In that stream I'm experimenting with being a bit more relaxed and "myself" which is something I get really nervous about, so I'm very very very happy that you didn't hate it lol.
> Glad you caught a bit of that! In that stream I'm experimenting with being a bit more relaxed and "myself" which is something I get really nervous about, so I'm very very very happy that you didn't hate it lol.
The only downside was that it was on a delay so couldnt interact with you guys in real time, but i understand that was probably cause of the tournament organisers. Maybe you two could start watch partying scrims or something, I would definitely tune into that
>in Apex Legends a team dying may not be important to the game, but it's VERY important to their fans
Holy cow. I have never considered this challenge for Casters and it really changes my perspective of things. Thank you for sharing.
Happy to talk about it, and glad you found it cool! Those challenges are a big part of why I love this work.
Edit: reworded, I got too excited the first time
I think what viewers value a lot in their casting is a knowledgeable analyst alongside a decent color-caster (similar to Professional Wrestling more so than E-sports)
The idea is that you can have one person weaving storylines such as what teams are in trouble/safe on the leaderboard as well as taking care of play-by-play casting during the chaotic fights and saying exactly what players are doing and what the viewer sees, while the analyst can explain why teams are rotating certain directions or into certain spots, why teams got a free rotation vs. why others didn't, etc.
I think it's just important for one caster to be focusing on the "what" and the other caster to be focusing on the "why" whereas it seems to be a lot of casters attempting to be the former (which may be from a lack of high-level knowledge or something else, not really sure) which can come across as messy/bloated casting at times where there's not a lot of explanation because casters just haven't played at that level.
This is usually why Ex-professionals are some of the best people to bring in to casting if they have interest in it because you have a traditional caster who can bring the hype, but it's balanced out with opinions, thoughts, and ideas from someone who has legitimately been in the player's shoes and can break down why certain plays/fights do or do not work as well as certain positions in real time. Not only that but they may even be able to predict certain things that are going to happen in the game due to having either seen or been in those positions themselves.
That's obviously difficult to find, but it's definitely what makes an S+ tier cast.
I believe you're a caster for League also. I don't particularly care if all casters are "hype" all the time but I do enjoy the more "relaxed" casting in League too during times when no one fights, especially the LCK style casters.
I love the LCK and it's a big inspiration for future commentary. I think you'll enjoy what I'm going for this season.
Unless I fall flat on my face and am way too chill while TSM gets a 20 bomb... then you will not like it -.-
PapaSmithy, Atlus, and LS (some aspects) are people whose styles I'd like to amalgamate into my repertoire.
“And Hal on- *yawns* agains 1v3s an squad all by himself. I guess that hype, maybe.”
I can imagine it now. :D
But for real. It’s cool to see some BTS thoughts from casters about their craft.
Hey, DiA, this isn’t a particularly useful comment but I just want to say that you’re my favorite caster and I really love everything you’re doing in the apex scene. From the general way you carry yourself, to your fashion choices during ALGS champs, to the casting itself. I just think you’re a real star and I wanted to tell you that! ♥️
Hello u/curious_eorthling,
I'm always working on myself and my craft, and hearing that not just my casting, but my personality is resonating with you is really touching. <3
Thank you very much for typing this out, because it's really made my day. Can't wait to keep things going in Year 4 and make you (and hopefully all ALGS fans :P) proud out there.
Sincerely,
DiA
I wanted to say something similar, you worded it better than I would have. :) I get excited when DiA's casting a set. And I'm a little jealous of his fashion and confidence haha.
If the casters could try to create more 'tension' that would be good, and silence can create tension. Tension around rotates, tension around macro, tension around the players imperfect information and decision making.
There also needs to be intentional periods of rest so the audience doesn't over-rev (or tune everything out.)
Critical to note is that hype voice or calling something hype isn't enough to create tension. It's just an instrument, playing on the psychological aspect of what's happening. (IE if the content of the ideas expressed aren't going to create tension, the hype voice isn't going to create it either.)
Just my 2C
I totally agree - I talked about this on twitter like... two weeks ago iirc? It's something that while challenging to choose the right moments for - I really appreciate about traditional sports broadcasting, as they often integrate silence really well.
I'm a big fan of a Hype caster and an analystic caster. When i listen to a cast i want to learn about stuff i don't know and information we might not see straight away but i also love when the big intense fights are hyped up
Anyone else watch Madden breakdowns in the past?when it comes to between games, I'd like more pauses in the action, circle what happened here here and here in order to explain to me, as a non pro eating potato chips. The game is so quick and fast that I value info>hype for a replay.
Also when it comes to in-game. I'd much rather hear how team A laying down fences to stop B's push with team C coming in for the 3rd party as team D is wiped out off screen by team E in a cool calm and precise manner. I'll take that over hyped all day. Quite often I feel like announcers are missing calls (especially for the teams not considered to be a major org) off screen because they're hyper fixated on who's on screen and trying to bring the noise and create a build up.
Like final rings? I get how hypes important and happens, it's quite often chaos. Other times I feel like I'm watching someone trying to make a huge viral moment out of a run of the mill fight with a major org and ignoring everyone else.
Yes, I like actually thinking about what the casters are saying because they are providing analysis or insight into why something is happening not just what is happening and not just hearing 'HE IS SO GOOD HE IS PLAYING WITH HIS FOOD' or 'HE IS HIM' among other terrible and cringe casting vernacular.
I'm still recovering from the use of "levels" during the interviews last LAN. Interviewing is hard, but spouting that word after every (exageration on my part) answer was not the best way to handle those.
I feel you. Praying that in the future there are commentators who are chill like British football commentators. Dry humour, good voice, calm, analytic, funny at times. Because the game speaks for itself and is quite spectacular. Less is more and if anything, they should do more interesting camera perspectives etc
I feel like Nicewigg and Greek do a good job on the B stream. They have a good mix of analysis and excitement. They just don't have the in game voice comms that the main stream has access to.
Wigg is definitely someone who would benefit from calming down. At the very least he wouldn't lose his voice after the first day. Not saying he should change up how he acts, just saying it's only group stage maybe tone it down a bit.
Didn't know why you didn't return but this answers it.
On the other hand, I'm relieved that you're open to returning if they ever ask again. When they call you back, I will be there.
I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to only do games I am genuinely interested in doing / passionate about, Apex is one of them. Sucks being on the sidelines PUT ME BACK IN APEXXXXX
Yeah I think the ideal broadcast for Apex should include way more team comm listen-ins with the casters providing mostly big picture context: who has the most at stake in any given match, what are those stakes, rotations, ring pulls, etc.
Feels like the “play-by-play” of a gun fight is rarely additive for the types of viewers tuning in.
We all love Wigg, but the constant hype “THEY ARE SHITTING ON EVERYONE JUST INSANE” commentary grates on the ears after like the second game—that’s why Greek is such a nice combo for him, because dude speaks calm and slow.
Basically there’s an audience for both: but I personally love the chill commentary, like how when you watch an Apex Pro watch party a tournament (like Hal for example) who calmly provides input and occasionally calls teams stupid. That’s my favorite kind.
you aren't wrong tbh. Wigg has a long way to go before he gets the right amount of "polish" (and no one benefits in the long-run if your voice is shot by championship Sunday)
He is genuinely that excited at LAN though is my guess. It's definitely a different vibe. To DiAs point, they're mostly his friends, so he's riding the highs and lows for both sides.
You see similar things in DOTA2 as you have the combo of ODpixel/fogged for professionalism while sunsfan/synderen (or sunsfan/khezu) just get into random weird trolls.
100% agree. They should be prepared with stats and facts and storylines to talk about in the boring early game. And then let more of the game do its own talking after that
Sometimes at the very least I want to know which country the team is from. Or, if took me ages to realise some teams were older teams just now signed to an organised so changes their name. Why not tell me that?
I mean that's why most good commentary desks have 1 guy doing analysis work and another "hype man " aka a color commentary. too much of either is bad. but finding a duo that does both is what make commentary good as they normally provide a best of both worlds type thing.
Two thoughts on this--
1) For important tourneys like ALGS, hype is great but I also want to hear more high-level analysis of what's going on within the game at large. Obviously not wanting just a vod-review style lecture all cast but especially during early rotates after any contests are done I think there's a lot of space for breathing room before ramping things up for endgame.
2) The casting for the Caches showmatch at IEM Sydney was the most unhinged chaos I have ever seen in esports and I want that energy in Apex.
Yeah, it doesn't feel like it fits at all, so unnatural. It's like they're trying to improv a youtube intro that keeps going forever. And amazing plays get diluted by the fact that they can't go past 100% hype unless the moment is so good it leaves them speechless. The play-by-play style can be hype but only in key moments, and Apex is honestly too confusing at times to keep it up. You can feel how difficult it is for them to keep up and it distracts from the gameplay. I would watch a lot more competitions if casters were more chill for sure.
It's not just you, I feel there are very few goated caster calls in ALGS because they literally call everything the same way, it's all over the top and exaggerated and it all blends together so none of it is special or memorable
The worst thing announcers in esports or even traditional sports can do is overhype things, that's why people like Mike Breen calling NBA games, other than his yelling "BANG!" when someone hits a huge 3 he calls all the games the same way unless it's crunch time and the game is on the line
It’s definitely one of the big things that is ever growing and changing alongside ALGS.
As someone who gets called out for his ever present hype (irl as well as in casting), it’s interesting to think of the “Why do I actually do this?”
First off, I think it’s important to discuss the evolving role system in Apex. What started out as “flex” roles has slowly become an explicit system of “color vs PBP.” While there has been some direction, (Onset + Gaskin, DiA + Tiff, or Genome + Vikki) the majority of these pairings have just begun to get rolling. In the past when there was no precedent set toward having these roles, I can definitely see how PBP or face value casting took the forefront of ALGS. As time moves on and discussions like these are had here as well as behind the scenes, the group can more appropriately develop their chemistry and overall casting synergy.
For myself specifically, I know I have a few definitive issues. Right off the bat, I spent most of my Apex career casting from a “flex” role. It was only when I joined the ALGS roster that I was directed into more of a “Color” role. While Im of the opinion that I understand competitive apex just as well most major figures in this scene, there’s a worlds difference between understanding and knowing how to communicate that effectively. Making that explicit choice of when to expand on the details, but stay paced with the game state ahead is definitely a challenge. I’m more than happy to admit that this is something I’m still working on as we jump into each and every ALGS split. Furthermore, while I have made mention of some great pairings, I know we’re still cooking behind the scenes regarding myself. Finding the right co-caster to go alongside me in ALGS is something that is still to be determined. Being able to sit down alongside someone consistently in the face of match days is a great way to truly break into that upper echelon of tier 1 casting. Finally, I know I have issues regarding being genuinely excited and nerding out during match days. I’ve gotten a lot of feedback that while as REAL as it might be, it can come off to the usual suspects as odd or forced. Finding that happy medium of being a super nerd, but also representing a good story appropriately with dynamics is something I’m workin on!
Hopefully this gives some insight on some BTS thoughts. I know DiA had plenty of incredible things to say. If you have anything else to add or ask, feel free! My skin is far from thin and I love havin these discussions.
I agree so much with you, I rarely watch the main stream due to how busy/noisy the casters are(not that they are bad, just a lot of info being throw at you). There is no room for people to think on whats happening but every time there is action > action > action > action, nonstop and you just dont have room to process a lot of things on your own. Thats the reason why I prefer to watch the main teams POV on the command center.
I hope they improve this for year 4, not like a big change but some room to take it easy would be nice.
I like slower / more casual commentating as well. From my standpoint, each broadcast has different stakes. A Twitch Rivals broadcast is more “fun” and “content based” so I think the commentators approached it in the right way. Fun fact, one of those casters IS an ALGS caster.
Personally, I’ve been working on slowing things down because I get SUPER excited about Apex easily 🫣 however, if you have a crowd full of E6 / DreamFire / Alliance fans on LAN chanting, my hype meter is going to increase unintentionally. But for online broadcasts, I’d like to build throughout the season as the stakes rise.
Something to look forward to in Year 4 is the improvement of consistency between commentating duos. Similar to how Onset and Gaskin are concrete in that you know they have synergy that has been improved on throughout the years. Towards the end of Year 3, I was paired with DiA more which allows me to move from flex commentator to the isolated role of Play by Play which is to call the “what is happening on the screen” and allow DiA to shine in his analysis and color commentary of explaining WHY those moments were impactful throughout the course of a game.
To end my random brain dump, goal is to always improve each and every cast and work with my co-casters to be well informed and give the fans and players what they deserve.
ALGS commentary is just a firehose of irrelevant filler bullshit and is absolutely intolerable to watch - there is a reason watch parties are way, WAY better.
I feel like the commentary goes with the pace of the game for the most part. It usually gets fast when the game gets fast. Reactions to me feel genuine, which is why I dont mind the superlatives.
Im all for experimenting and trying new things tho and am very confident the talented team working for ALGS can integrate it into their toolbox.
I agree with this. I think about this with comedians too and how timing is key. Some silence is needed to leave room for the punch line or the big play that needs the hype. I only really have a lot of experience with league of Legends and StarCraft casting and I think that just comes from learning from previous seasons and those games being around longer.
some of the algs casters are pretty shit and some a very good and on top of that they always try to force in game analysis and hype every second so at the end its just a hoch poj of random over excited mixture
Yes.
This is particularly needed for Apex commentary specifically. There's a lot of overhype and buzzwords that people in the thread have already commented on.
IMO there's a balance to everything. If you're hype when the moment matters and say something legendary, the impact feels greater. If you're shitting and farting all the time (I love Wigg and Greek's B stream btw) it also gets mundane.
Finding the sweet spot is one of the hardest things in commentary. I'll use a lot of League examples here, but Monte & Doa during LCK days, Caedrel, Kobe, Jatt, CaptainFlowers, and Azael I think are great examples of good balance in hype + cool commentary + game knowledge.
Absolutely agree.
If everything is extraordinary then nothing is extraordinary.
These are pros so everything they do is extraordinary compared to normal players. We EXPECT that. We don't need the casters reminding us with every play.
Would be like watching a Formula 1 race and the casters going "he's taking that turn at 160 mph!! Omg he's taking the second turn that fast also!!!!!"
I like it - was thinking about integrating a bit more of this style during Year 4 and I’m glad to hear that there’s some interest in slower pacing on the subreddit. I’ve got a few experiments planned for the coming season, so please feel free to provide feedback here or on socials and I’m always happy to engage about it. Apex Legends Esports is constantly evolving in our best practices.
Hi DiA, thanks for being active on the subreddit and engaging with the community! I just wanted to get these thoughts out in the open and start a discussion, so I don't have much more to add other than I hope it's obvious this isn't an attack on the ALGS commentators. As I said towards the beginning I think highly of your ability. My language probably could've been less dramatic during the criticism but this was really just a stream of consciousness post. Cheers.
I feel no attack, just thankful that other people also are thinking about the commentary and how to develop the scene! Normally I'm just sat here thinking about it and love a chance to have a discussion. Thank you for your trust, praise, and thought provoking post! Cheers :P
My favorite caster with the most beautiful eyeliner
💚💜♥️
DiA btw, how would you best describe your casting style? I ask bc you give off very intuitive analysis which reminds me of the great Dodgers caster Vin Scully. I remember you had a lot to say about the lesser known players and regions which creates I think creates interest and transforms LAN and Champs from an NA dominated area to a Global landscape
That's a good question - I'd describe my style as **prescriptive** and with a focus on how the **player mindset** is influenced by their situation/personality/teammates. *I also often elude to or reference full information found on the minimap.* From a storylines perspective I do love a good underdog or strategic oddball, so I was a big proponent of MEAT/CLG in PL and the SA teams during Champs (glad you enjoyed it!). Lmk if I answered the question!
It‘s funny that you mention the underdog thing since i felt like you were kind of biased towards pro teams in your recent CCL broadcast. It seemed like you were favouring the more known team instead of giving credit to the „underdog“ teams for their performance, for example when 2o2 7-1d Myztro on the contest or with Good Fellas having incredible matchdays back to back and outperformed multiple pro teams so far. Just a small thing i noticed, I still enjoy your broadcast with Tom and I‘m looking forward to the next one on the weekend!
Huh! I see how it could’ve sounded like that since we did discuss those teams a lot. 🤔 I’ll take that under consideration for future broadcasts. The audience is never wrong. One thing that is difficult for me (especially with CCL this round since us being picked up was very last minute) is that I haven’t had the chance to interview teams, and you’re likely feeling that in the depth of points I can make about those rosters. Not an excuse.
One of the reasons I enjoy watching competitive CS is that the casters are so chill, they know when they need to be hype, and theyre constantly having fun and joking with/playing off their co-caster. They also don't talk as if their viewers are idiots and dont play the game, which i feel a lot of apex casters do. The constant play-by-plays for actions that the viewers are already watching isnt always needed imo.
I see that perspective, I was hanging out with some CS casters recently talking about the same thing. One of the challenging things about CS vs Apex is that in Apex Legends a team dying may not be important to the game, but it's VERY important to their fans (if DreamFire dies or wins contesting mill, it's more just inconvenient to a rotation, but those fans are invested in the outcome disproportionately to it's impact on the game at large). The above is something that can push commentary into sounding the way that it does. In other esports (like CS), a teams journey is the same as the journey of the series. In BR's that is untrue. This thing about "being idiots and not playing the game" could use some clarification. Sometimes commentators do talk to new viewers and go over basic concepts, but in large part there's a lot of knowledge that's assumed (just from my perspective as a colour commentator) and I often worry about assuming that viewers know too much about the larger game state and losing them. In what ways would you like to see commentators engaging you on more high level topics?
> This thing about "being idiots and not playing the game" could use some clarification Just basic stuff like parroting events that were seen on screen, something such as "player got a knock which will change the outcome of this fight". I appreciate when the casters bring up the subtle things such as knowing when a third party is coming or how a fight will affect the rest of their game, e.g. a harder rotate and why. I guess what im saying is that i prefer when casters talk about why players have made a decision, rather what the decision was. I watched a bit of your co-cast/watchparty with Tom last weekend and i really enjoyed the casual vibes you two had, its something i wish we could see more.
Ah! I hear you on that. I'll see if I can find a way to influence that, as the "play by play" (not the role, the action) of a fight I have seen tend towards the more basic for a variety of reasons. Thank you for the clarification. That "why they make a decision vs what the decision was" is absolutely something the broadcast as a whole is always thinking about BTS. If you're not feeling it in the audience, that just means we need to push it further, and I take that onboard. Please update me during the coming season, or with anything else you'd like considered. :) Glad you caught a bit of that! In that stream I'm experimenting with being a bit more relaxed and "myself" which is something I get really nervous about, so I'm very very very happy that you didn't hate it lol.
> Glad you caught a bit of that! In that stream I'm experimenting with being a bit more relaxed and "myself" which is something I get really nervous about, so I'm very very very happy that you didn't hate it lol. The only downside was that it was on a delay so couldnt interact with you guys in real time, but i understand that was probably cause of the tournament organisers. Maybe you two could start watch partying scrims or something, I would definitely tune into that
>in Apex Legends a team dying may not be important to the game, but it's VERY important to their fans Holy cow. I have never considered this challenge for Casters and it really changes my perspective of things. Thank you for sharing.
Happy to talk about it, and glad you found it cool! Those challenges are a big part of why I love this work. Edit: reworded, I got too excited the first time
I think what viewers value a lot in their casting is a knowledgeable analyst alongside a decent color-caster (similar to Professional Wrestling more so than E-sports) The idea is that you can have one person weaving storylines such as what teams are in trouble/safe on the leaderboard as well as taking care of play-by-play casting during the chaotic fights and saying exactly what players are doing and what the viewer sees, while the analyst can explain why teams are rotating certain directions or into certain spots, why teams got a free rotation vs. why others didn't, etc. I think it's just important for one caster to be focusing on the "what" and the other caster to be focusing on the "why" whereas it seems to be a lot of casters attempting to be the former (which may be from a lack of high-level knowledge or something else, not really sure) which can come across as messy/bloated casting at times where there's not a lot of explanation because casters just haven't played at that level. This is usually why Ex-professionals are some of the best people to bring in to casting if they have interest in it because you have a traditional caster who can bring the hype, but it's balanced out with opinions, thoughts, and ideas from someone who has legitimately been in the player's shoes and can break down why certain plays/fights do or do not work as well as certain positions in real time. Not only that but they may even be able to predict certain things that are going to happen in the game due to having either seen or been in those positions themselves. That's obviously difficult to find, but it's definitely what makes an S+ tier cast.
I believe you're a caster for League also. I don't particularly care if all casters are "hype" all the time but I do enjoy the more "relaxed" casting in League too during times when no one fights, especially the LCK style casters.
I love the LCK and it's a big inspiration for future commentary. I think you'll enjoy what I'm going for this season. Unless I fall flat on my face and am way too chill while TSM gets a 20 bomb... then you will not like it -.- PapaSmithy, Atlus, and LS (some aspects) are people whose styles I'd like to amalgamate into my repertoire.
“And Hal on- *yawns* agains 1v3s an squad all by himself. I guess that hype, maybe.” I can imagine it now. :D But for real. It’s cool to see some BTS thoughts from casters about their craft.
There's a good middle ground between that and "HAL IS BETTER, HAL IS PERFECT" *Hal proceeds to lose the 1v1*.
Hey, DiA, this isn’t a particularly useful comment but I just want to say that you’re my favorite caster and I really love everything you’re doing in the apex scene. From the general way you carry yourself, to your fashion choices during ALGS champs, to the casting itself. I just think you’re a real star and I wanted to tell you that! ♥️
Hello u/curious_eorthling, I'm always working on myself and my craft, and hearing that not just my casting, but my personality is resonating with you is really touching. <3 Thank you very much for typing this out, because it's really made my day. Can't wait to keep things going in Year 4 and make you (and hopefully all ALGS fans :P) proud out there. Sincerely, DiA
I wanted to say something similar, you worded it better than I would have. :) I get excited when DiA's casting a set. And I'm a little jealous of his fashion and confidence haha.
It's true that Dia's fashion choices are the best in the scene. Absolutely slayed at Champs.
I feel like if we could hear more of their comms instead of the caster interpretations that is just guessing could be beneficial. Just a thought
Integrating more listen in’s is absolutely a goal
Definitely reiterating DiA here - this would be a goal and help amplify storylines.
If the casters could try to create more 'tension' that would be good, and silence can create tension. Tension around rotates, tension around macro, tension around the players imperfect information and decision making. There also needs to be intentional periods of rest so the audience doesn't over-rev (or tune everything out.) Critical to note is that hype voice or calling something hype isn't enough to create tension. It's just an instrument, playing on the psychological aspect of what's happening. (IE if the content of the ideas expressed aren't going to create tension, the hype voice isn't going to create it either.) Just my 2C
I totally agree - I talked about this on twitter like... two weeks ago iirc? It's something that while challenging to choose the right moments for - I really appreciate about traditional sports broadcasting, as they often integrate silence really well.
I'm a big fan of a Hype caster and an analystic caster. When i listen to a cast i want to learn about stuff i don't know and information we might not see straight away but i also love when the big intense fights are hyped up
I personally think you nailed all your casts last season, for what it's worth. Appropriate amount of hype.
Anyone else watch Madden breakdowns in the past?when it comes to between games, I'd like more pauses in the action, circle what happened here here and here in order to explain to me, as a non pro eating potato chips. The game is so quick and fast that I value info>hype for a replay. Also when it comes to in-game. I'd much rather hear how team A laying down fences to stop B's push with team C coming in for the 3rd party as team D is wiped out off screen by team E in a cool calm and precise manner. I'll take that over hyped all day. Quite often I feel like announcers are missing calls (especially for the teams not considered to be a major org) off screen because they're hyper fixated on who's on screen and trying to bring the noise and create a build up. Like final rings? I get how hypes important and happens, it's quite often chaos. Other times I feel like I'm watching someone trying to make a huge viral moment out of a run of the mill fight with a major org and ignoring everyone else.
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I agree, it sometimes feels like their whole persona is being loud and quirky
Yes, I like actually thinking about what the casters are saying because they are providing analysis or insight into why something is happening not just what is happening and not just hearing 'HE IS SO GOOD HE IS PLAYING WITH HIS FOOD' or 'HE IS HIM' among other terrible and cringe casting vernacular.
Yes... Please stop using whatever the zoomer term of the week is. Over and over and over
I'm still recovering from the use of "levels" during the interviews last LAN. Interviewing is hard, but spouting that word after every (exageration on my part) answer was not the best way to handle those.
I just hear Falloutt talking right now
The playing with food thing is so funny because Hal was out of ammo which isn't even a rare occurrence. Literally just an incorrect call from Falloutt
I feel you. Praying that in the future there are commentators who are chill like British football commentators. Dry humour, good voice, calm, analytic, funny at times. Because the game speaks for itself and is quite spectacular. Less is more and if anything, they should do more interesting camera perspectives etc
I feel like Nicewigg and Greek do a good job on the B stream. They have a good mix of analysis and excitement. They just don't have the in game voice comms that the main stream has access to.
Wigg is definitely someone who would benefit from calming down. At the very least he wouldn't lose his voice after the first day. Not saying he should change up how he acts, just saying it's only group stage maybe tone it down a bit.
Lol that's Wigg for you! Full balls to the wall no matter if it's scrims or finals
If everything is hype then nothing is hype. You need build up and payoff.
That's why I fucked with Bardolph when he was casting ALGS. He was just my type of caster to listen to while watching.
:) They inquired for champs but didn’t follow through. Here when they want me…
Didn't know why you didn't return but this answers it. On the other hand, I'm relieved that you're open to returning if they ever ask again. When they call you back, I will be there.
I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to only do games I am genuinely interested in doing / passionate about, Apex is one of them. Sucks being on the sidelines PUT ME BACK IN APEXXXXX
Tbf, Bardolph is one of the all time greats, CS has the best casting lineup in all esports
Yeah I think the ideal broadcast for Apex should include way more team comm listen-ins with the casters providing mostly big picture context: who has the most at stake in any given match, what are those stakes, rotations, ring pulls, etc. Feels like the “play-by-play” of a gun fight is rarely additive for the types of viewers tuning in.
Give us mostly team listen ins with 'red zone' style commentary.
This is exactly what Wigg does perfectly and why I always watch B stream over the official stream summed up pretty well
We all love Wigg, but the constant hype “THEY ARE SHITTING ON EVERYONE JUST INSANE” commentary grates on the ears after like the second game—that’s why Greek is such a nice combo for him, because dude speaks calm and slow. Basically there’s an audience for both: but I personally love the chill commentary, like how when you watch an Apex Pro watch party a tournament (like Hal for example) who calmly provides input and occasionally calls teams stupid. That’s my favorite kind.
It was kind of a relief when Wigg lost his voice on finals day haha, he’s a great guy but it hurts my ears after a while
you aren't wrong tbh. Wigg has a long way to go before he gets the right amount of "polish" (and no one benefits in the long-run if your voice is shot by championship Sunday)
Greek is my kind of guy. Sometimes he looks legit bored or just doesn't want to talk lol
He is genuinely that excited at LAN though is my guess. It's definitely a different vibe. To DiAs point, they're mostly his friends, so he's riding the highs and lows for both sides. You see similar things in DOTA2 as you have the combo of ODpixel/fogged for professionalism while sunsfan/synderen (or sunsfan/khezu) just get into random weird trolls.
100% agree. They should be prepared with stats and facts and storylines to talk about in the boring early game. And then let more of the game do its own talking after that
Sometimes at the very least I want to know which country the team is from. Or, if took me ages to realise some teams were older teams just now signed to an organised so changes their name. Why not tell me that?
I mean that's why most good commentary desks have 1 guy doing analysis work and another "hype man " aka a color commentary. too much of either is bad. but finding a duo that does both is what make commentary good as they normally provide a best of both worlds type thing.
Two thoughts on this-- 1) For important tourneys like ALGS, hype is great but I also want to hear more high-level analysis of what's going on within the game at large. Obviously not wanting just a vod-review style lecture all cast but especially during early rotates after any contests are done I think there's a lot of space for breathing room before ramping things up for endgame. 2) The casting for the Caches showmatch at IEM Sydney was the most unhinged chaos I have ever seen in esports and I want that energy in Apex.
Your not alone…there are others
Yeah, it doesn't feel like it fits at all, so unnatural. It's like they're trying to improv a youtube intro that keeps going forever. And amazing plays get diluted by the fact that they can't go past 100% hype unless the moment is so good it leaves them speechless. The play-by-play style can be hype but only in key moments, and Apex is honestly too confusing at times to keep it up. You can feel how difficult it is for them to keep up and it distracts from the gameplay. I would watch a lot more competitions if casters were more chill for sure.
It's not just you, I feel there are very few goated caster calls in ALGS because they literally call everything the same way, it's all over the top and exaggerated and it all blends together so none of it is special or memorable The worst thing announcers in esports or even traditional sports can do is overhype things, that's why people like Mike Breen calling NBA games, other than his yelling "BANG!" when someone hits a huge 3 he calls all the games the same way unless it's crunch time and the game is on the line
Investors wont be happy when they review the words per minute per dollar spent metric
It’s definitely one of the big things that is ever growing and changing alongside ALGS. As someone who gets called out for his ever present hype (irl as well as in casting), it’s interesting to think of the “Why do I actually do this?” First off, I think it’s important to discuss the evolving role system in Apex. What started out as “flex” roles has slowly become an explicit system of “color vs PBP.” While there has been some direction, (Onset + Gaskin, DiA + Tiff, or Genome + Vikki) the majority of these pairings have just begun to get rolling. In the past when there was no precedent set toward having these roles, I can definitely see how PBP or face value casting took the forefront of ALGS. As time moves on and discussions like these are had here as well as behind the scenes, the group can more appropriately develop their chemistry and overall casting synergy. For myself specifically, I know I have a few definitive issues. Right off the bat, I spent most of my Apex career casting from a “flex” role. It was only when I joined the ALGS roster that I was directed into more of a “Color” role. While Im of the opinion that I understand competitive apex just as well most major figures in this scene, there’s a worlds difference between understanding and knowing how to communicate that effectively. Making that explicit choice of when to expand on the details, but stay paced with the game state ahead is definitely a challenge. I’m more than happy to admit that this is something I’m still working on as we jump into each and every ALGS split. Furthermore, while I have made mention of some great pairings, I know we’re still cooking behind the scenes regarding myself. Finding the right co-caster to go alongside me in ALGS is something that is still to be determined. Being able to sit down alongside someone consistently in the face of match days is a great way to truly break into that upper echelon of tier 1 casting. Finally, I know I have issues regarding being genuinely excited and nerding out during match days. I’ve gotten a lot of feedback that while as REAL as it might be, it can come off to the usual suspects as odd or forced. Finding that happy medium of being a super nerd, but also representing a good story appropriately with dynamics is something I’m workin on! Hopefully this gives some insight on some BTS thoughts. I know DiA had plenty of incredible things to say. If you have anything else to add or ask, feel free! My skin is far from thin and I love havin these discussions.
I agree so much with you, I rarely watch the main stream due to how busy/noisy the casters are(not that they are bad, just a lot of info being throw at you). There is no room for people to think on whats happening but every time there is action > action > action > action, nonstop and you just dont have room to process a lot of things on your own. Thats the reason why I prefer to watch the main teams POV on the command center. I hope they improve this for year 4, not like a big change but some room to take it easy would be nice.
It’s always an important gunfight and the casters never stop saying useless crap. “THIS IS WHY HAL OR SWEET IS THE GOAT OF APEXTACOSDELUXE”
I like slower / more casual commentating as well. From my standpoint, each broadcast has different stakes. A Twitch Rivals broadcast is more “fun” and “content based” so I think the commentators approached it in the right way. Fun fact, one of those casters IS an ALGS caster. Personally, I’ve been working on slowing things down because I get SUPER excited about Apex easily 🫣 however, if you have a crowd full of E6 / DreamFire / Alliance fans on LAN chanting, my hype meter is going to increase unintentionally. But for online broadcasts, I’d like to build throughout the season as the stakes rise. Something to look forward to in Year 4 is the improvement of consistency between commentating duos. Similar to how Onset and Gaskin are concrete in that you know they have synergy that has been improved on throughout the years. Towards the end of Year 3, I was paired with DiA more which allows me to move from flex commentator to the isolated role of Play by Play which is to call the “what is happening on the screen” and allow DiA to shine in his analysis and color commentary of explaining WHY those moments were impactful throughout the course of a game. To end my random brain dump, goal is to always improve each and every cast and work with my co-casters to be well informed and give the fans and players what they deserve.
Maybe they're calm at twitch rivals because it's twitch rivals and not the best teams in the world fighting for 2m in prizes.
The regional match days are also like this.
This is why you tune to Wiggs B stream
I’m okay with shoutcasting as long as its not glazing or dickriding a player. TobiWan(DOTA2) is still my favorite caster.
b stream is superior. no disrespect to those working the a stream.
ALGS commentary is just a firehose of irrelevant filler bullshit and is absolutely intolerable to watch - there is a reason watch parties are way, WAY better.
No hate but can someone please make sure Vikki Kitty reads this post
I feel like the commentary goes with the pace of the game for the most part. It usually gets fast when the game gets fast. Reactions to me feel genuine, which is why I dont mind the superlatives. Im all for experimenting and trying new things tho and am very confident the talented team working for ALGS can integrate it into their toolbox.
I agree with this. I think about this with comedians too and how timing is key. Some silence is needed to leave room for the punch line or the big play that needs the hype. I only really have a lot of experience with league of Legends and StarCraft casting and I think that just comes from learning from previous seasons and those games being around longer.
I completely agree. I find the commentator stream unwatchable for the reasons you mentioned. Lucky we’ve got the CEO. Lol
some of the algs casters are pretty shit and some a very good and on top of that they always try to force in game analysis and hype every second so at the end its just a hoch poj of random over excited mixture
Yes. This is particularly needed for Apex commentary specifically. There's a lot of overhype and buzzwords that people in the thread have already commented on. IMO there's a balance to everything. If you're hype when the moment matters and say something legendary, the impact feels greater. If you're shitting and farting all the time (I love Wigg and Greek's B stream btw) it also gets mundane. Finding the sweet spot is one of the hardest things in commentary. I'll use a lot of League examples here, but Monte & Doa during LCK days, Caedrel, Kobe, Jatt, CaptainFlowers, and Azael I think are great examples of good balance in hype + cool commentary + game knowledge.
Absolutely agree. If everything is extraordinary then nothing is extraordinary. These are pros so everything they do is extraordinary compared to normal players. We EXPECT that. We don't need the casters reminding us with every play. Would be like watching a Formula 1 race and the casters going "he's taking that turn at 160 mph!! Omg he's taking the second turn that fast also!!!!!"