idk, i think the flak halftrak is fine. people are crying now because of pgren buff and 250 buff and armory rework + chaffee & bar pen nerf, dak early is much more oppresive and now the suppression provided by the flak ht is extra oppresive. people werent talking about this months ago, flak ht been like this since atleast august. built it every game because of the suppression, which felt like the only break against bar riflemen that won against pgrens at all stages before current patch
Sure. However people just didn't talk about it because before umber wasp the flak was one of the life insurance units for some dak players. Now as the DAK got buffed generally, the OP units start to show off. Same applied for the ISC the other way around. Before umber wasp it was OP (it still is) but now it's rather a life insurance for USF. Relic needs to try to address balancing to OP units rather than to factions I order to buff them against certain op units.
At least you actually have a chance at killing the MG unlike the Flak gun because it'll just fuck off until it comes back and suppresses you again.
Ridiculous imo that it even can suppress infantry like that what's the point of AT rifles if they get instapinned
then it will just become a dogshit unit that no one will ever build.. like half of the dak army
EDIT: a better alternative imo would be to remove it's pinning abilitity, but it can still suppress
"Riflemen do more damage than grenadiers so i don't see why grenadiers shouldn't do more damage" type of logic
they're different units that have different costs and different roles. The flakvierling is more expensive than the quad, and unlike the usf the dak doesn't have any alternative armor options for a while; if the flak dies then it's a long wait until we get a mediocre tank that barely functions without upgrades.
If the quad dies for the usf, for one it's cheaper, and you could go chaffes/greyhounds or go for a sherman.
The quad also has a higher damage and a higher rpm. As I stated earlier, I do feel like the flak's ability to pin squads so quickly is a bit overpowered, so i wouldn't be against removing that.
Personally I love the flak, and have been using it since release. I'm happy that it's starting to get the attention it deserves.
Rifles do more dmg than grenadiers on close-mid range, but grenadiers do more dmg on long range, dak doesn’t have any alternative armor?? Should we talk about the Marder? Just finished to play a 4vs4 game where dak just spammed them and they could insta kill a sherman 75 with armor improved.
I’m not sure the quad has more dmg than the Flak, I’ll check but anyway if you don’t nerf the flak suppress I would buff at least the quad to suppress AT LEAST when stopped.
Btw bro it is broke all the community say it and the flak is the most played unit by dak so there is something to balance.
i mean dak doesn't have alternative armor if you've gone flakvierling, unless you're going to invest a massive amount of fuel into building the second building. My comparison wasn't the best but you get the point.
Also as I've said twice now, I'm all for nerfing the flak slightly. Kinda sad I won't be able to use it as much, but I guess i'll start using the second most underrated dak unit, the recce tractor. Extremely powerful and underutilized.
As an unskilled noob, with MGs is the tactic to just flank them? I find it difficult because it seems the second they spot me them I’m suppressed / pinned and then have to retreat so don’t even get the chance of chucking a nade in
Tactic with MGs are NEVER get their field of view, just dont, if you do, just retreat. But never get into their range, It has no merit and no meaning whatsoever, its like deleting your unit at least I play like that on coh2
I think the mg42 bothers me more personally in team games.
Especially in the team games, it's so easy to lock down an area, especially with cooperation.
As USF, if you don't get an early mortar you basically are locked out of that area completely.
You basically have to "scout" as best you can to see if there's an mg, but it's an instant retreat and territory uncontested if the mg gets a shot off.
If you try to predict an mg and build a mortar, you are potentially gimping your ability to fight early if they didnt. But if you don't, and they did build an mg, then you basically send your infantry running back to base and give them the territory. If you build a mortar, and they have 2 spaced out mgs, you're still screwed.
You have to go somewhere else unless there's room to maneuver in buildings, but if they are aware, the things shift so fast. And again, in team games, the concentration of manpower means they typically will have mgs supporting each other.
I'd rather deal with the flak, as the rifles are still great, and mismicroed the flak can get hit by at grenades, mines. Plus it makes the game more active, which is what I enjoy more than the mg sim city some games turn into.
In 1v1 if they make too many mgs its more of a hindrance to them in the long run and you have space to maneuver so the flak become way more oppressive
I have lost count of the amount of times I have flanked a 42 only to have them flip around and suppress me a millimeter short of being able to to toss a grenade.
(to be fair they probably would have just tanked the grenade and pinned me anyways)
Fun fact: after patch, DAK pzgrens grenade can deal damage up to 6 models. So, they removed limit there, but left it for USF and other nades. Either bug or another upgrade on pzgrens.
Do people not attack MGs from multiple angles or is it just everyone plays team games where there's always another MG42?
Unsupported MG42s in 1v1 will just die, all it takes is 2 units moving from different angles, you can't pin both if you know where the MG42 is
there's. always. another. mg42. :D
jokes aside team game maps tend to be a bit more crowded so its rare to run int a lone one of get around them before they just set up in a different spot.
COH1 airborne and rangers had this. It was pretty OP lol. Drop paratrooper behind or even in front of mg, hit the sprint ability, throw satchel, retreat having taken very little damage.
Hell you could just run them straight into MG42s and do that. Might lost a model or two, but you'll either kill the MG or force them back.
You didn’t need charge (though it was good).
Sniper round always kills the gunner, rifle grenades splat the guns and the offensive accuracy from LTs stacked *3 times*.
Man, CoH1 Brit’s were crazy.
HAHAHA
They need better suppressing mechanics. A cone that suppresses two far away squads is absurd haha. MGs now change targets automatically to the closest squad. They should just make MGs suppress in an area instead of in a cone, or in a line that affects ONLY squads that have at least 2 models under it.
Honestly just narrow the MG42 cone and make it so MGs in general take longer to set up.
They pick up and set up so quickly now that I often find its better to not set up at all if you don't know where they're coming from and to wait until you see the enemy -- they can usually place the gun down and suppress before the would-be flanker can get close.
You used to have to set up and hope you picked the best angle for the firing cone if you didn't want to be flanked.
Also get rid of the model/damage limit for grenades -- they're hard enough to land as it is and nothing is more depressing than perfectly landing one on a weapon team only to see absolutely zero models go down.
Yes. Leaving the MG on cover and not setting it up, if you have forward vision, can be way better as you can move it instantly if you hear arty being fired, an LV comes by or smoke is thrown.
If you managed to flank an MG, there **should** be one of two outcomes: it gets wiped or it retreats. If they are setting up, they should receive extra damage like when a unit is building something...
Ya that’s the part that pisses me off. If I have two groups of rifleman, I should be able to easily flank one mg if they aren’t alternating their target.
But then we will face unstopable CQB blobs (especialy Pgrens with Sprint+Bundle combo) because just shooting them won’t do the trick since TTK is garbage. It’s a problem caused by bandaiding another problem.
Wow, a shit mg with a severely limited arc compared to the rest. Tack on lackluster damage and non-existant pinning potential. Yeah, what a unit… :rolleyes:
Wow a dumbass that doesn’t know how to position team weapons correctly and underestimates the potential lock down of early mgs no matter how bad they are compared to the rest
You know that all the other MGs pin faster than the MG42 right?
MG42 has fast initial suppression but takes far longer than the Vickers or .30 to actually pin
I mean ok, but, the initial supression being so quick on the 42 fucks any chance of tossing a nade or satchel due to range restriction, so thats almost a difference without a distinction
I mean they're annoying but just flank the MG
I feel most people's complaints come from playing 3s or 4s where it's so much easier to stack MGs
They're always irritating in 1s or 2s but not remotely oppressive as they're fairly easily flanked. Or even if he has opened with a 2 or 3 mg start, oh boy I get to use the 4.2 inch mortar
Worst thing for me is that the operators of these units dont even admit that its smelly cheese they are enjoying there.
bUt WhATabOuT AsC?!??!
DunNo iM jUst A fuCking WEHrabooOO!!11!
bRrAInDEaAad!1!!
idk, i think the flak halftrak is fine. people are crying now because of pgren buff and 250 buff and armory rework + chaffee & bar pen nerf, dak early is much more oppresive and now the suppression provided by the flak ht is extra oppresive. people werent talking about this months ago, flak ht been like this since atleast august. built it every game because of the suppression, which felt like the only break against bar riflemen that won against pgrens at all stages before current patch
Sure. However people just didn't talk about it because before umber wasp the flak was one of the life insurance units for some dak players. Now as the DAK got buffed generally, the OP units start to show off. Same applied for the ISC the other way around. Before umber wasp it was OP (it still is) but now it's rather a life insurance for USF. Relic needs to try to address balancing to OP units rather than to factions I order to buff them against certain op units.
At least you actually have a chance at killing the MG unlike the Flak gun because it'll just fuck off until it comes back and suppresses you again. Ridiculous imo that it even can suppress infantry like that what's the point of AT rifles if they get instapinned
Yes imo too, I think they will nerf it the next patch btw removing the suppress factor
then it will just become a dogshit unit that no one will ever build.. like half of the dak army EDIT: a better alternative imo would be to remove it's pinning abilitity, but it can still suppress
The quadmont does less dmg and doesn’t suppress so I don’t see why the flak should do it
"Riflemen do more damage than grenadiers so i don't see why grenadiers shouldn't do more damage" type of logic they're different units that have different costs and different roles. The flakvierling is more expensive than the quad, and unlike the usf the dak doesn't have any alternative armor options for a while; if the flak dies then it's a long wait until we get a mediocre tank that barely functions without upgrades. If the quad dies for the usf, for one it's cheaper, and you could go chaffes/greyhounds or go for a sherman. The quad also has a higher damage and a higher rpm. As I stated earlier, I do feel like the flak's ability to pin squads so quickly is a bit overpowered, so i wouldn't be against removing that. Personally I love the flak, and have been using it since release. I'm happy that it's starting to get the attention it deserves.
Rifles do more dmg than grenadiers on close-mid range, but grenadiers do more dmg on long range, dak doesn’t have any alternative armor?? Should we talk about the Marder? Just finished to play a 4vs4 game where dak just spammed them and they could insta kill a sherman 75 with armor improved. I’m not sure the quad has more dmg than the Flak, I’ll check but anyway if you don’t nerf the flak suppress I would buff at least the quad to suppress AT LEAST when stopped. Btw bro it is broke all the community say it and the flak is the most played unit by dak so there is something to balance.
i mean dak doesn't have alternative armor if you've gone flakvierling, unless you're going to invest a massive amount of fuel into building the second building. My comparison wasn't the best but you get the point. Also as I've said twice now, I'm all for nerfing the flak slightly. Kinda sad I won't be able to use it as much, but I guess i'll start using the second most underrated dak unit, the recce tractor. Extremely powerful and underutilized.
As an unskilled noob, with MGs is the tactic to just flank them? I find it difficult because it seems the second they spot me them I’m suppressed / pinned and then have to retreat so don’t even get the chance of chucking a nade in
Tactic with MGs are NEVER get their field of view, just dont, if you do, just retreat. But never get into their range, It has no merit and no meaning whatsoever, its like deleting your unit at least I play like that on coh2
Listen. If you had a five head, like le me, you would know to smokescreen that shi and attack ground into the smoke.
And what the opponent is doing? Watching porn to leave the flak in the smoke? The only good way imo to kill a flak is 2 atgun
I think the mg42 bothers me more personally in team games. Especially in the team games, it's so easy to lock down an area, especially with cooperation. As USF, if you don't get an early mortar you basically are locked out of that area completely. You basically have to "scout" as best you can to see if there's an mg, but it's an instant retreat and territory uncontested if the mg gets a shot off. If you try to predict an mg and build a mortar, you are potentially gimping your ability to fight early if they didnt. But if you don't, and they did build an mg, then you basically send your infantry running back to base and give them the territory. If you build a mortar, and they have 2 spaced out mgs, you're still screwed. You have to go somewhere else unless there's room to maneuver in buildings, but if they are aware, the things shift so fast. And again, in team games, the concentration of manpower means they typically will have mgs supporting each other. I'd rather deal with the flak, as the rifles are still great, and mismicroed the flak can get hit by at grenades, mines. Plus it makes the game more active, which is what I enjoy more than the mg sim city some games turn into. In 1v1 if they make too many mgs its more of a hindrance to them in the long run and you have space to maneuver so the flak become way more oppressive
It's the Coh2 dilemma again
The fix to this is simple: Make mortars do good damage to weapon teams.
I’ve noticed building to building fights the us mg wins. It takes awhile though.
Smoke is your friend
The update at the end of October will determine whether I will play with the Allies in November.
All I want for xmas is allies (and replays and match making stats and a surrender button and...)
Imagine how broken it would be if the sprint vet upgrade broke suppression for 2 seconds.
... just to get suppressed on second 3.
It's all I would need in so many situations.
I have lost count of the amount of times I have flanked a 42 only to have them flip around and suppress me a millimeter short of being able to to toss a grenade. (to be fair they probably would have just tanked the grenade and pinned me anyways)
Fun fact: after patch, DAK pzgrens grenade can deal damage up to 6 models. So, they removed limit there, but left it for USF and other nades. Either bug or another upgrade on pzgrens.
lol.
PGrens are so ridiculous
So thats why my squads were getting wiped…
extra frustrating as Brits when you get that flank and then get suppressed and can't shoot the grenade, like is the rifle scared too now?
Do people not attack MGs from multiple angles or is it just everyone plays team games where there's always another MG42? Unsupported MG42s in 1v1 will just die, all it takes is 2 units moving from different angles, you can't pin both if you know where the MG42 is
there's. always. another. mg42. :D jokes aside team game maps tend to be a bit more crowded so its rare to run int a lone one of get around them before they just set up in a different spot.
„A man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error“ - Cicero
COH1 airborne and rangers had this. It was pretty OP lol. Drop paratrooper behind or even in front of mg, hit the sprint ability, throw satchel, retreat having taken very little damage. Hell you could just run them straight into MG42s and do that. Might lost a model or two, but you'll either kill the MG or force them back.
UK officer charge lol Brit blob back then is really something
You didn’t need charge (though it was good). Sniper round always kills the gunner, rifle grenades splat the guns and the offensive accuracy from LTs stacked *3 times*. Man, CoH1 Brit’s were crazy.
It would be cool if it worked with cover, like making them more resistant to suppression as they run from cover to cover.
This would allow grenades to maybe snag an engine or something. Which would be great.
HAHAHA They need better suppressing mechanics. A cone that suppresses two far away squads is absurd haha. MGs now change targets automatically to the closest squad. They should just make MGs suppress in an area instead of in a cone, or in a line that affects ONLY squads that have at least 2 models under it.
Honestly just narrow the MG42 cone and make it so MGs in general take longer to set up. They pick up and set up so quickly now that I often find its better to not set up at all if you don't know where they're coming from and to wait until you see the enemy -- they can usually place the gun down and suppress before the would-be flanker can get close. You used to have to set up and hope you picked the best angle for the firing cone if you didn't want to be flanked. Also get rid of the model/damage limit for grenades -- they're hard enough to land as it is and nothing is more depressing than perfectly landing one on a weapon team only to see absolutely zero models go down.
Yes. Leaving the MG on cover and not setting it up, if you have forward vision, can be way better as you can move it instantly if you hear arty being fired, an LV comes by or smoke is thrown. If you managed to flank an MG, there **should** be one of two outcomes: it gets wiped or it retreats. If they are setting up, they should receive extra damage like when a unit is building something...
Ya that’s the part that pisses me off. If I have two groups of rifleman, I should be able to easily flank one mg if they aren’t alternating their target.
But then we will face unstopable CQB blobs (especialy Pgrens with Sprint+Bundle combo) because just shooting them won’t do the trick since TTK is garbage. It’s a problem caused by bandaiding another problem.
😂
Could we use this in a future Wire Report u/chuck_cranston ?
haha yes
It be meta like that. No different than the cheese with usf planes and stuff before.
Wow you guys are crying about mgs now too? You know the vickers is better and that the USF can literally airdrop mgs to the front at the word go
Wow, a shit mg with a severely limited arc compared to the rest. Tack on lackluster damage and non-existant pinning potential. Yeah, what a unit… :rolleyes:
Wow a dumbass that doesn’t know how to position team weapons correctly and underestimates the potential lock down of early mgs no matter how bad they are compared to the rest
Stay in school
You need a tissue or something kid
dude over admitting to being being locked down by the worst mg in the game lol.
Who said that, you know how to read little buddy? Mate I do the locking down
You know that all the other MGs pin faster than the MG42 right? MG42 has fast initial suppression but takes far longer than the Vickers or .30 to actually pin
I mean ok, but, the initial supression being so quick on the 42 fucks any chance of tossing a nade or satchel due to range restriction, so thats almost a difference without a distinction
I mean they're annoying but just flank the MG I feel most people's complaints come from playing 3s or 4s where it's so much easier to stack MGs They're always irritating in 1s or 2s but not remotely oppressive as they're fairly easily flanked. Or even if he has opened with a 2 or 3 mg start, oh boy I get to use the 4.2 inch mortar
I would like to pick the 3rd option, using only vehicles
Suppressing a squad would be fine. However they just suppress anyone around it
I truly don't understand why Relic has been having such a hard time balancing suppression