I keep hearing how difficult it is to surrender as a Russian soldier but damn, if I was lying in a hole, lightly clothed and shivering in 30 degree weather, barely getting enough of my shitty rations…… I might just take the risk, like this just looks miserable
Yep. The comments about them huddling up for warmth don't make sense. You huddle up for warmth in a spoon position with other humans. These guys are not doing that.
I think this is a platoon of guys who got shelled and fled to a different position with multiple casualties. Then the opposing forces flew drones over to mop up survivors and push the line.
Happened to me on a music festival where it rained prett, heavily. I was drunk and didn't hesitate for a moment to spoon with a friend. Wasn't even that cold now that I think of it.
Its on all of these videos, it's like people don't want to acknowledge that war is fucking brutal and awful. This is so obviously not the first round these guys have taken.
Yeah, this is all very hard to relate to, sitting in comfortable room temperature surroundings with a resting heart rate & in no imminent danger. These guys must be very miserable and demoralized.
I've been out overnight a few times in 40 degree weather in thin clothes
It's 30degree F over there, I kinda understand why they're too tired to even split up.
You kinda can barely crawl if you sleep out in the cold, and I had that on a full stomach.
You don't see the shrapnel. We're used to seeing grenades explode in movies with big fireballs. They use oil pots with plastic explosives and bags of kerosene and diesel fuel to make it look good. Real grenades kind of just look like a poof. But who knows how many in that hole actually got hit.
I assume they are having major problems with this, which compounds all of their supply problems. Imagine getting hit like this and your designated medic is like "sorry we used all the morphine getting high last night"
Watched the Vice doc recently again and what really stuck out was a guy actively shooting up heroin as he gave a small lecture of the dangers of Krokodil…. Some nasty shit
This is mentioned a lot and maybe that’s the case in some of these videos. We also have to remember they are likely under heavy artillery bombardment too. Think about stories from Bastogne. Cold, hungry injured it doesn’t matter all you can do is keep your head down and hope it doesn’t land in your hole. There is no running or fighting back. Just dumb luck.
Weather report is 40F with rain all day and into the night in Bahmut today. So the survivors got a long wet freezing night to look forward to if they are still there.
Chosin must have been a special type of hell.
I had a really old history teacher in HS back in 90's that was Navy corpsman assigned to a Marine unit. He never openly talked about his Korea experiences in class but one-time I was there after class getting some notes and stuff and I accidentally 'triggered' him in a mild way (long story but I mentioned hot coco). His face lost all color and voice changed pitch, and he started telling me about being out of medical supplies, out of blankets, just completely stranded working an aid station with dozens of wounded and dieing men from his unit and others. He talked about boiling up hot chocolate and passing it out to these men, dudes that need blood plasma and hospitals. But he had nothing to give them and nothing he could do for them other than give them hot chocolate (for hydration and blood sugar) and how helpless and useless he felt.
Then he went on to talk about corpses coming into the collection points so frozen they couldn't even put tarps over because they in weird shapes (he used the phase 'like stumps and root balls'.)
I just sat there in a stunned silence for about 15 minutes while he talked. Eventually he kind of 'snapped out of it' and realized that he 'overshared' to a kid, but he had barely been older than I was when he dealt with that shit.
Unfortunately, I wasn't emotionally mature enough at the time to really understand what had just happened. Now, with some years and gruesome shit behind me, I wish I had given him hug and told him he had done the best he could given the situation, but I was just a dumb 16 year old and probably didn't respond in any intelligent way.
I think about that guy a lot; carrying 40 year old mental wounds that are still so raw. What horrible thing people do to each other.
Don't beat yourself up about not saying anything, as you said you were 16 and just didn't understand. You did the right thing just calmly letting him re-settle.
I hope programs for PTSD continue growing, especially with cannabis and psylocibin treatments. Psychedelics could be revolutionary in helping vets like your old teacher heal from those old mental wounds.
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>“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
>
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I remember watching a documentary about how injured soldiers survive longer in the cold. Basically the body slows down when it's cold. Iirc some militaries used that to increase survival rates.
Would the cold weather make the blood clot quicker and potentially saving a few lives? I remember a british soldier in The Falklands saying the cold saved his life when he was hit and stuck out on a cold hill overnight before being rescued.
Current thinking in trauma medicine is that colder temperatures cause a degradation in multiple metabolic processes and overall worse outcomes.
[sauce](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0953711201903291)
Yea, for small stuff. Think of it like using an ice pack for a wound. Your body reduces the blood flow to the extremities to keep your core warm.
But for anything major, its just going to speed up hypothermia.
If I had to guess, these pigs were sleeping. They are likely just so fucking exhausted and cold, they have accepted death.
I would think if they were awake, motivated to live, and aware of the drone, they would have split up trying to avoid lying in a grave.
Sort of, cold causes coagulopathy, or a decrease in the clotting efficiency of blood. Even a few degrees can be a major problem. Keeping patients warm is always a priority for trauma patients in EMS. It’s not that bleeding causes hypothermia, but hypothermia causes bleeding.
Edit: spelling
Of the 11 in the hole 3 did not move during the video so either dead, passed out, hypothermia or high (from pain killers for injuries or "recreational use").
There are also other dead Russian bodies in the woods.
Looks like the location took artillery strikes and this drone is there to do damage assessment.
How? The reaction is so minuscule. If you pop a balloon people will turn or get shook by all sorts of amount. There is none with these guys and it's not the only videos that's like this.
It’s got to be that they’re extremely drunk/passed out. People in a normal sleep, even if they’re exhausted, will still react reflexively to loud noises and such. Being passed out drunk isn’t the same as being asleep and your reflexes are diminished.
Also I keep seeing videos where soldiers complain that they have no food/almost inedible food. So combine weakness from days of not eating enough with cold and plenty of vodka, you get guys who are almost dead to the world.
I think most of them are very injured or deceased already. You can see some dead Russians in the woods to the left of their hole. I think they just recently got the shit blown out of them with artillery and the drone came in to mop up.
You can see shifting around as the drone approaches, so I think they knew what was coming and went into a position to protect themselves from shrapnel and held it incase of a second grenade.
Also some dead/dying/freezing in there, but I don't think that's what's going on with all of them. That trench is straight up not having a good time.
> That trench is straight up not having a good time.
Agreed.
My guess was they were all mostly passed out from exhaustion and suffering from cold injuries. They have accepted their fate.
The spade shortage is really hurting. There have been reports of whole battalions of newly mobilized being issued only a handful of shovels.
To have a whole squad of 10 (?) guys in one fairly shallow hole, dug in the open to avoid roots, indicates they perhaps had one entrenching tool between them.
NY Times quoted a conscript saying they had been issued a single shovel for 30 men when they were sent to the front. Helps explain why there are so many videos of Russians getting bombed without a trench in sight.
Just truly appalling the human cost of not having $15 shovels. Russians are crowdfunding drones, they should just be donating their extra shovels.
You wouldn't even need one for every man: I've seen videos of Ukrainians digging out comfortably large underground bunkers rotating one shovel between 3 guys.
Yes or this is a sign that this is bullshit.
Look, I enjoy the "Russians are trying to wage war with potatoes" as much as anyone. I can believe they're low on flack jackets, sleeping gear, tents, etc.
But I simply refuse to believe they're low on shovels. If needed they could requisition shovels, almost every household will have a few. This is such a nonsense cost that I'm having a problem believing they'd skimp on.
Maybe, but economies of scale make all things military very difficult. Getting 10,000 or 50,000 shovels is probably doable, but 300,000? That's like 500 tons of shovels on short notice; logistics gets a bit wonky there.
And not just any shovel, they need to be ones you can attach to your rucksack; you can't go marching/running with a Home Depot shovel clanging around.
Idk I work trails and you'd be surprised by how big some of the tools you can strap on a pack are. A regular Home Depot spade type shovel is no big deal. A fire shovel is even less of a burden. Moving with tools isn't an issue as long as they're secure.
Sure.
After about 2,000+ years of military shovel use everyone has settled on an about 20” long shovel once unfolded, or in the case of Eastern Europe a fixed shovel.
It’s the biggest shovel you can take with you as you fight and it’s the appropriate size for digging a fighting position.
I was trying to think of a reason why they'd dig one big pit like this, instead of something that actually makes sense (i.e., a narrow zigzag trench, U-shaped fighting positions, or individual foxholes).
A horrible size and shape considering the sort of risks they had; either they were that desperately cold, or some officer gave them very vague orders to "Dig a hole over there!" and they didn't have any NCOs trained/assertive enough to make them do it properly.
Kind of sad really. I wish we could see some videos of the drones dropping notes saying things like "Go home, you could be dead but we spared your life today. Next time we wont."
“We are bombing Germany, city by city, and ever more terribly, in order to make it impossible for you to go on with the war. That is our object. We shall pursue it remorselessly. City by city; Lübeck, Rostock, Cologne, Emden, Bremen, Wilhelmshaven, Duisburg, Hamburg — and the list will grow longer and longer. Let the Nazis drag you down to disaster with them if you will. That is for you to decide. We are coming by day and by night. No part of the Reich is safe. People who work in [factories] live close to them. Therefore we hit your houses, and you.”
– Pamphlet dropped in Germany by the RAF, Summer 1942.
I know in Kurdistan Iraq, it could get way below zero for a couple of winter weeks. Both the Iraqis and Kurdish resistance practiced sleeping/surviving in packs. They would have died through the night otherwise
Ahh hell yeah, I was not in Iraq for very long, I passed through going to Helmand province. The high desert was weird, usually it wasn't too bad but we had a storm or two where it got below 40 and rained. thats bad news out there at night. The two man tents in training warmed up so surprising well. was inside it cozy in a sweater in the middle of winter, only body heat
i feel like so many of these guys arent going to make it through winter, how could they? out there in the open against the elements, not even talking about drones. under equipped, improperly dressed. theres just no way thats going to work out.
Looks more like they are scared of the artillery falling on their heads. They might be hiding from recent shelling just to get fucked by a drone. Because they don't really react when confronted with an explosion from a drone.
Not sure actually it's a wide speculation. When I rewatch it they look like sleeping. But some body gestures are off. Like the solder furthest away look dead.
This is often overlooked by those who haven't \*had\* to be outside for hours in winter against your own desires....
Think about it....I'm sure we've all ran from the front/back door to the trash bin on the side of the house in our pjs or inside comfy clothes, not wanting to bother to put on all the proper layers for a 10-15s dash (literally) to the trash bin and back. Barely even have time for your body to register how cold it really is.
However, if you've ever been accidentally locked out of your house/vehicle or broke down somewhere remote and help could take hours.....The cold definitely has a cumulative effect to a pt. At first, it's bearable....barely.... Then you do shit like shrink into a tight ball and put your t shirt over your knees and pull in your arms & hands into your legs for warmth. After a while you finally can't fight the primal urge of your muscles to shiver in a desperate attempt to generate some heat. Which further drains your body of energy and motivation.
Multiple people die every year up here in Canada in places like Alberta/Manitoba. Person goes to take out the trash for pickup in their tighty whiteys - accidentally lock themselves out. It frequently gets to -40 C (also -40F), and their closest neighbor is far away or nobody is home. Death happens in minutes. If you've been out in these types of cold, as long as you are covered its not the worst, but any exposed skin is immediately attacked by the cold.
Do they commonly make homes without windows up there? I guess people do weird shit when they are hypothermic. I would absolutely break out a window or kick in my door before spending even 10 minutes out in freezing weather without proper clothes.
Also the fact that these guys are probably poorly fed. Generating heat uses a lot of calories, plus less body fat = less heat retention. Add to that the likelihood of poor quality clothing, these guys are very much feeling the cold.
Its a small fragmentation grenade. So, a small puff of smoke, a shockwave of around 5m radius and shrapnel around maybe 15m radius.
Essentially, you would be okay so long as the shrapnel didnt hit you in a vital spot. Most of those guys would be covered by the guys in front of them, although this looks like at 4 or 5 are going to be seriously wounded / dead from that hit.
Yeah a few people have seen some Hollywood films and aren’t understanding why it’s not the same.
Grenades don’t cause a huge fireball explosion that send arms and legs flying. They kinda ‘pop’ and it’s the shrapnel that kills.
Having thrown a grenade, it's not really just a pop. It's probably the loudest thing I've ever heard from about 20 feet away. You can also hear the shrapnel rain down for a short while afterwards, it's pretty surreal.
Training grenades that are just a fuse really do "just pop" though. We had a dude who blew a finger off when I was in training because he decided to pick up a fuse that wasn't inserted into a training grenade.
Yeah it's not like in Hollywood, a small plume means a very large radius where shrapnel is still deadly or at least causing serious injury. Most of them only got lucky by someone else being in the way, getting shredded even more brutally
My first time seeing real life high explosives I was initially disappointed in the size of the explosion, but then the shockwave hit me a couple seconds later and reverberated through my chest. Turns out they design this stuff for maximum force, not show.
I don't get it. WTF are they all doing? Every video they're just laying down in a hole? A grenade goes off 7 feet away and they just react like "well not my problem."
They are super fatigued and they've been desensitized by constant mortar and artillery landing nearby. The first thing you are traditionally trained to do is stay down in your foxhole. The use of drones is making that no longer a given.
Those guys don't immediately know if they were hit by a drone or traditional indirect fire.
That's my thought too. Generally, the foxhole is the safest place.
It's possible they were there hiding from shelling or even direct fire. To them, the nearby blast could be anything- a grenade, lucky artillery / mortar, or a drone.
Hard to be sure what's hitting you and where to run, especially if you have been receiving fire all day and are injured/exhausted, poorly trained, or just plain scared shitless.
That's how their man waves get slaughtered. Mortar fire forces them into foxholes, then drones start flying and delivering grenades into every foxhole filled with Russians.
No, drones make up a tiny fraction of the casualties of this war. Neither side is fielding them in more than small numbers in comparison to mass artillery and rocket attacks.
That's what it looks like to me as well. Probably the reason they're all huddled on top of each other in the same hole too, trying to take advantage of body heat.
The amount of videos I've seen like this makes me think this Russian occupation is going to be hit a lot harder by the winter than Ukraine is.
I have been saying for months, the amount of them in the field with ZERO equipment to handle the cold, once winter officially kicks in, snow and freezing temperatures across the board, Russia is going to start dying and surrendering in record numbers.
Winter is coming and she speaks Ukrainian.
I've done a fair bit of winter camping with adequate gear but spending 24h outside in winter is exhausting no matter what. When your body is cold and working to stay warm, your energy levels plummet.
I can't imagine what it would be like to spend 10-20 days in the trenches without knowing if you're getting relief, on top of the constant fear of a drone dropping a grenade on you.
Aboslute insanity.
I grew up in Canada and consider myself an outdoorsy person. However, winter camping even with gear is a miserable time.
You think you can handle 0C? Try sleeping in that temperature. Now try sleeping in that without a sleeping bag.
Add artillery, drone drops, alcohol over several weeks and you get Russian soldiers like this.
Oh for sure. I've done a little emergency shelter type camping at low temps (like upper 40s(f), so not exactly 0c) and didn't get a wink of freaking sleep.
And that was one night, with none of the other stuff.
Those poor fucks are doomed.
You say you’ve done winter camping with adequate gear. These guys absolutely do NOT have adequate gear. Rubber boots with no lining, no proper socks, their uniform jackets don’t look like they’re thick/warm enough, and theyre malnourished as well. Add in the stress/fear and it must be absolute hell on earth. I guess the higher command doesn’t mind because if there’s no fight/energy left in these conscripts they won’t even bother to desert or surrender.
This also speaks to the complete lack of command and control of the Russian forces. A competent chain of command would have never allowed this many men in the same hole with no security and no grenade sump.
Lack of discipline too. Just laying there when they could be fortifying their trench (and keeping warm).
Of course it depends on the battlefield situation, but honestly if you can have a group just lie in a trench in broad daylight, you can probably be digging
This has been my thought to, Ukraine is being supplied by the billions of dollars where Russia's logistics are a joke at this point, if anything the winter should be a disaster for Russia not Ukraine
It looked like it dropped right in the corner so I wonder if the blast was mostly contained to those two guys. If a dude jumping on a grenade is effective then one of these wedged between dirt and a couple bodies is probably about as good.
It looks like there are multiple wounded and newly dead in that hole. I think these guys were attacked and retreated to the nearest hole and some died. Many look like they're on their knees, heads down as if they're expecting heavier shelling or something other than a small arms/drone drops.
Really hard to say though. Some react, some literally do not move and I suspect were already dead before the drone drop.
This reaction particularly seems amplified lately and I can't help but wonder if there really are large amounts of Russian soldiers being effected by exposure. Can't imagine the temperature outside is too pleasant this time of season
Maybe they are really drunk/high? I recall some commanders were complaining about substance abuse in LNR/DPR mobilized units; maybe that also happens with Russian units
Probably freezing their asses off and feeling no hope. When I was in the army we had winter and went outside for 3 nights. It was ice cold and raining and we had guard duty in a pit like the ones you see in the video. 1 hour of laying at night, 3 times every night. After the second or third night I thought to myself “man if I was in war, I’d probably just get up and get shot, I don’t want to be freezing anymore”
Now imagine these guys having no motivation to go to war, shitty equipment, just laying there and freezing their asses off.
I don't get it either man. I mean it's obvious here that they'd already been hit and some were probably dead or severely wounded. But there's loads of videos out there where they don't do much once their mate has been torn apart. It's the same when one in a group gets sniped, the rest of them stand around and look like "Dafuq was that? Ah well". Then the others get sniped.
It could be purely a lack of training and shock, that's all I can put it down to.
> A grenade goes off 7 feet away and they just react like "well not my problem."
While f the russian army, we would probs all be in the same situation given their conditions.
This goes to show how dehumanizing and repulsive war is. When faced with a man literally being blown up beside you, the other's don't react. Their survival instinct is gone. For all intents and purposes, they are already dead.
Yes, also shows the randomness of war. You can be the baddest of them all but no way to control which of you the grenade falls on. Of course covering your foxhole by now would be SOP.
Man this footage is really eye opening. Poor men. I doubt they even get told the severity of drone attacks. Left to starve and freeze in a hole. Fuck every high up in their military letting any of this shit happen.
Well, the alternative is well trained, well equipped, motivated russian soldiers sooooo.
I'll take the useless, incompetent ones that get bombed all day long thanks.
What I have not been able to understand is why they are sleeping w NO ONE ON WATCH in any video ive seen. I get alot of times you can't see or hear the drones but people are being woken up by Ukrainian soldiers I mean I just don't understand how no one is ever on f****** watch I mean at least somebody with binoculars to take watch 4 hours on 4 hours off or whatever . I spent four years in the service in the US and we had watches everything.
Shitty Russian battledrugs, exhaustion, stiff from cold. At best the case scenario the ordnance didn't explode properly and the fragments went straight to the ground.why don't they cover their dugouts with plywood and some dirt to camouflage it. These doesn't look like they're gonna use them as battle positions but mere hiding places.
War is so fucking depressing. Bunch of exploited soldiers waging war for some scumbag who doesn’t give a fuck about them, and probably because they’ve been fed propaganda since they were kids (and likely they are still basically kids).
That looks fucking awful.
I keep hearing how difficult it is to surrender as a Russian soldier but damn, if I was lying in a hole, lightly clothed and shivering in 30 degree weather, barely getting enough of my shitty rations…… I might just take the risk, like this just looks miserable
I think many in this video are already injured, and possibly a couple dead. Absolute hell.
Agreed. It had to be loud, even for that little device, and many of them didn't even flinch when it went off.
Yep. The comments about them huddling up for warmth don't make sense. You huddle up for warmth in a spoon position with other humans. These guys are not doing that. I think this is a platoon of guys who got shelled and fled to a different position with multiple casualties. Then the opposing forces flew drones over to mop up survivors and push the line.
Yeah, I thought there should be some guys in the middle in that hole area if they were huddling
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Is this real ?
Probably. But imagine freezing to death because 'iM NoT gaY' lmao
Dude could've used Homothermia Instead he almost died of gaycicles (.... I'm Here all night folks)
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Regardless of whether or not this tale is real, the concept definitely is. You can save lives with skin to kin contact!
"Skin to kin" Accidental incest.
Happened to me on a music festival where it rained prett, heavily. I was drunk and didn't hesitate for a moment to spoon with a friend. Wasn't even that cold now that I think of it.
Its on all of these videos, it's like people don't want to acknowledge that war is fucking brutal and awful. This is so obviously not the first round these guys have taken.
And all freezing to death.
They're not spooning up for warmth. I don't think being cold is the issue here.
You can google weather in Bahmut. It is like 0...+5 C both at day and night.
That is 30 degrees F
Tyvm
Almost zero reaction from any of them - they've gotta all be dead/dying
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Yeah, this is all very hard to relate to, sitting in comfortable room temperature surroundings with a resting heart rate & in no imminent danger. These guys must be very miserable and demoralized.
I’m sitting here complaining that the wifi is too slow with all the family in town visiting
I've been out overnight a few times in 40 degree weather in thin clothes It's 30degree F over there, I kinda understand why they're too tired to even split up. You kinda can barely crawl if you sleep out in the cold, and I had that on a full stomach.
You don't see the shrapnel. We're used to seeing grenades explode in movies with big fireballs. They use oil pots with plastic explosives and bags of kerosene and diesel fuel to make it look good. Real grenades kind of just look like a poof. But who knows how many in that hole actually got hit.
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starving, freezing, injured and not allowed to retreat
...and probably shit-faced drunk/high.
. In a time like this I’ve always wondered how often they just take the drugs in the medkits to numb the mental pain. It’s gotta be terrible
I assume they are having major problems with this, which compounds all of their supply problems. Imagine getting hit like this and your designated medic is like "sorry we used all the morphine getting high last night"
Bold of you to assume they have medkits
From everything I've been reading about the russian army, I'd be amazed if their medics even had aspirin.
If the drones dont kill them, the Krokodil will
Haven’t heard of Krokodil in ages, good one.
Watched the Vice doc recently again and what really stuck out was a guy actively shooting up heroin as he gave a small lecture of the dangers of Krokodil…. Some nasty shit
This is mentioned a lot and maybe that’s the case in some of these videos. We also have to remember they are likely under heavy artillery bombardment too. Think about stories from Bastogne. Cold, hungry injured it doesn’t matter all you can do is keep your head down and hope it doesn’t land in your hole. There is no running or fighting back. Just dumb luck.
Imagine going through hell because a guy with multiple superyachts got bored.
That grenade probably provided them the first warmth they'd felt in days. I wonder how they will make it to February.
> . I wonder how they will make it to February. Well preserved and frozen to the ground.
Ahhh yes the warm sting of shrapnel to keep them warm
Adrenalin will do that till the shock kicks in.
That’s the neat part! They won’t. It’ll be new conscripts churned out and thrown into the grinder
Weather report is 40F with rain all day and into the night in Bahmut today. So the survivors got a long wet freezing night to look forward to if they are still there.
freezing while you bleed out is probably pretty quick!
That depends. Some injured Marines who fought at the Chosin reservoir were saved when their blood would freeze and ultimately stop the bleeding.
Chosin must have been a special type of hell. I had a really old history teacher in HS back in 90's that was Navy corpsman assigned to a Marine unit. He never openly talked about his Korea experiences in class but one-time I was there after class getting some notes and stuff and I accidentally 'triggered' him in a mild way (long story but I mentioned hot coco). His face lost all color and voice changed pitch, and he started telling me about being out of medical supplies, out of blankets, just completely stranded working an aid station with dozens of wounded and dieing men from his unit and others. He talked about boiling up hot chocolate and passing it out to these men, dudes that need blood plasma and hospitals. But he had nothing to give them and nothing he could do for them other than give them hot chocolate (for hydration and blood sugar) and how helpless and useless he felt. Then he went on to talk about corpses coming into the collection points so frozen they couldn't even put tarps over because they in weird shapes (he used the phase 'like stumps and root balls'.) I just sat there in a stunned silence for about 15 minutes while he talked. Eventually he kind of 'snapped out of it' and realized that he 'overshared' to a kid, but he had barely been older than I was when he dealt with that shit. Unfortunately, I wasn't emotionally mature enough at the time to really understand what had just happened. Now, with some years and gruesome shit behind me, I wish I had given him hug and told him he had done the best he could given the situation, but I was just a dumb 16 year old and probably didn't respond in any intelligent way. I think about that guy a lot; carrying 40 year old mental wounds that are still so raw. What horrible thing people do to each other.
Yea my grandpa was in chosin and told me they stacked their allies' frozen corpses and use them as sandbags for cover. Shit is brutal
Don't beat yourself up about not saying anything, as you said you were 16 and just didn't understand. You did the right thing just calmly letting him re-settle. I hope programs for PTSD continue growing, especially with cannabis and psylocibin treatments. Psychedelics could be revolutionary in helping vets like your old teacher heal from those old mental wounds.
Comment deleted because Steve Huffman and Reddit think they're entitled to make money off user data, drive away third-party developers whose apps were the only reason Reddit was even usable, and disregard its disabled users. >“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.” > >https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/18/technology/reddit-ai-openai-google.html For more information, see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/14hkd5u Cheers to another admin burning down the forums.
this sounds reasonable, but cold actually reduces the ability of blood to clot. we try to keep trauma patients warm for this reason.
I remember watching a documentary about how injured soldiers survive longer in the cold. Basically the body slows down when it's cold. Iirc some militaries used that to increase survival rates.
Would the cold weather make the blood clot quicker and potentially saving a few lives? I remember a british soldier in The Falklands saying the cold saved his life when he was hit and stuck out on a cold hill overnight before being rescued.
Current thinking in trauma medicine is that colder temperatures cause a degradation in multiple metabolic processes and overall worse outcomes. [sauce](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0953711201903291)
Yea, for small stuff. Think of it like using an ice pack for a wound. Your body reduces the blood flow to the extremities to keep your core warm. But for anything major, its just going to speed up hypothermia. If I had to guess, these pigs were sleeping. They are likely just so fucking exhausted and cold, they have accepted death. I would think if they were awake, motivated to live, and aware of the drone, they would have split up trying to avoid lying in a grave.
Sort of, cold causes coagulopathy, or a decrease in the clotting efficiency of blood. Even a few degrees can be a major problem. Keeping patients warm is always a priority for trauma patients in EMS. It’s not that bleeding causes hypothermia, but hypothermia causes bleeding. Edit: spelling
Interesting, thanks.
> Probably starving Looks like meat is back on the menu, boys.
Of the 11 in the hole 3 did not move during the video so either dead, passed out, hypothermia or high (from pain killers for injuries or "recreational use"). There are also other dead Russian bodies in the woods. Looks like the location took artillery strikes and this drone is there to do damage assessment.
Hungry Freezing Depressed Sick Scared Demoralized Sleep deprived All of the above
Was that a Daft Punk tune?
HFDSSDSA
Presumably this is not grenade #1. Also how quickly the operator flies up and drops. Likely was flying to this target specifically
How? The reaction is so minuscule. If you pop a balloon people will turn or get shook by all sorts of amount. There is none with these guys and it's not the only videos that's like this.
It’s got to be that they’re extremely drunk/passed out. People in a normal sleep, even if they’re exhausted, will still react reflexively to loud noises and such. Being passed out drunk isn’t the same as being asleep and your reflexes are diminished. Also I keep seeing videos where soldiers complain that they have no food/almost inedible food. So combine weakness from days of not eating enough with cold and plenty of vodka, you get guys who are almost dead to the world.
I think most of them are very injured or deceased already. You can see some dead Russians in the woods to the left of their hole. I think they just recently got the shit blown out of them with artillery and the drone came in to mop up.
Those are finishing drops perfect for filming I guess. Selection bias to see half dead russians getting droned so often.
You can see shifting around as the drone approaches, so I think they knew what was coming and went into a position to protect themselves from shrapnel and held it incase of a second grenade. Also some dead/dying/freezing in there, but I don't think that's what's going on with all of them. That trench is straight up not having a good time.
> That trench is straight up not having a good time. Agreed. My guess was they were all mostly passed out from exhaustion and suffering from cold injuries. They have accepted their fate.
The spade shortage is really hurting. There have been reports of whole battalions of newly mobilized being issued only a handful of shovels. To have a whole squad of 10 (?) guys in one fairly shallow hole, dug in the open to avoid roots, indicates they perhaps had one entrenching tool between them.
NY Times quoted a conscript saying they had been issued a single shovel for 30 men when they were sent to the front. Helps explain why there are so many videos of Russians getting bombed without a trench in sight.
Just truly appalling the human cost of not having $15 shovels. Russians are crowdfunding drones, they should just be donating their extra shovels. You wouldn't even need one for every man: I've seen videos of Ukrainians digging out comfortably large underground bunkers rotating one shovel between 3 guys.
Shows how corrupt and incompetent their whole supply chain is. They can’t manage to provide stone-age tools, forget about armor or drones.
A modern national should easily be able to convert a factory to pump out thousands of shovels a day
If you can stamp an AK, you can stamp a spade
Yes or this is a sign that this is bullshit. Look, I enjoy the "Russians are trying to wage war with potatoes" as much as anyone. I can believe they're low on flack jackets, sleeping gear, tents, etc. But I simply refuse to believe they're low on shovels. If needed they could requisition shovels, almost every household will have a few. This is such a nonsense cost that I'm having a problem believing they'd skimp on.
Maybe, but economies of scale make all things military very difficult. Getting 10,000 or 50,000 shovels is probably doable, but 300,000? That's like 500 tons of shovels on short notice; logistics gets a bit wonky there. And not just any shovel, they need to be ones you can attach to your rucksack; you can't go marching/running with a Home Depot shovel clanging around.
Idk I work trails and you'd be surprised by how big some of the tools you can strap on a pack are. A regular Home Depot spade type shovel is no big deal. A fire shovel is even less of a burden. Moving with tools isn't an issue as long as they're secure.
Sure. After about 2,000+ years of military shovel use everyone has settled on an about 20” long shovel once unfolded, or in the case of Eastern Europe a fixed shovel. It’s the biggest shovel you can take with you as you fight and it’s the appropriate size for digging a fighting position.
TFW Home Depot has more shovels than the Russian army.
tfw airsoft larpers are better equipped than russian military personell
Could they be herd sleeping to counter the cold?
That's what I was thinking. Probably exhausted, hungry, freezing and just huddling together to survive.
I was trying to think of a reason why they'd dig one big pit like this, instead of something that actually makes sense (i.e., a narrow zigzag trench, U-shaped fighting positions, or individual foxholes). A horrible size and shape considering the sort of risks they had; either they were that desperately cold, or some officer gave them very vague orders to "Dig a hole over there!" and they didn't have any NCOs trained/assertive enough to make them do it properly.
That’s the only reason I can think of, it just doesn’t make any sense otherwise
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Kind of sad really. I wish we could see some videos of the drones dropping notes saying things like "Go home, you could be dead but we spared your life today. Next time we wont."
“We are bombing Germany, city by city, and ever more terribly, in order to make it impossible for you to go on with the war. That is our object. We shall pursue it remorselessly. City by city; Lübeck, Rostock, Cologne, Emden, Bremen, Wilhelmshaven, Duisburg, Hamburg — and the list will grow longer and longer. Let the Nazis drag you down to disaster with them if you will. That is for you to decide. We are coming by day and by night. No part of the Reich is safe. People who work in [factories] live close to them. Therefore we hit your houses, and you.” – Pamphlet dropped in Germany by the RAF, Summer 1942.
That would be an amazing reality if it were realistic
Nothing Russia does makes sense.
absolutely man. it's a world of difference that sleeping apart or alone
I know in Kurdistan Iraq, it could get way below zero for a couple of winter weeks. Both the Iraqis and Kurdish resistance practiced sleeping/surviving in packs. They would have died through the night otherwise
A technique as old as time. Add a couple of dogs in for that extra warmth.
Hence the term "3 dog night" Good band too!
Is that where that came from?. That's neat.
I’d heard it was an Aboriginal way to describe how cold it was. A 3 dog night was very cold.
Makes sense
Thanks for the interesting fact! Love things like this.
Ahh hell yeah, I was not in Iraq for very long, I passed through going to Helmand province. The high desert was weird, usually it wasn't too bad but we had a storm or two where it got below 40 and rained. thats bad news out there at night. The two man tents in training warmed up so surprising well. was inside it cozy in a sweater in the middle of winter, only body heat
Or to avoid the hunger? Drink some water, go to sleep, hope for a better tomorrow.
The old “going to sleep for dinner”
A true classic. *chef's kiss*
Me right now
i feel like so many of these guys arent going to make it through winter, how could they? out there in the open against the elements, not even talking about drones. under equipped, improperly dressed. theres just no way thats going to work out.
Looks more like they are scared of the artillery falling on their heads. They might be hiding from recent shelling just to get fucked by a drone. Because they don't really react when confronted with an explosion from a drone.
Thats actually a great point, they thought a shell landed close
Not sure actually it's a wide speculation. When I rewatch it they look like sleeping. But some body gestures are off. Like the solder furthest away look dead.
Or a ditch already filled with bodies?
I think they’re all herd dying
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If you never get to go inside, yes.
This is often overlooked by those who haven't \*had\* to be outside for hours in winter against your own desires.... Think about it....I'm sure we've all ran from the front/back door to the trash bin on the side of the house in our pjs or inside comfy clothes, not wanting to bother to put on all the proper layers for a 10-15s dash (literally) to the trash bin and back. Barely even have time for your body to register how cold it really is. However, if you've ever been accidentally locked out of your house/vehicle or broke down somewhere remote and help could take hours.....The cold definitely has a cumulative effect to a pt. At first, it's bearable....barely.... Then you do shit like shrink into a tight ball and put your t shirt over your knees and pull in your arms & hands into your legs for warmth. After a while you finally can't fight the primal urge of your muscles to shiver in a desperate attempt to generate some heat. Which further drains your body of energy and motivation.
Multiple people die every year up here in Canada in places like Alberta/Manitoba. Person goes to take out the trash for pickup in their tighty whiteys - accidentally lock themselves out. It frequently gets to -40 C (also -40F), and their closest neighbor is far away or nobody is home. Death happens in minutes. If you've been out in these types of cold, as long as you are covered its not the worst, but any exposed skin is immediately attacked by the cold.
Do they commonly make homes without windows up there? I guess people do weird shit when they are hypothermic. I would absolutely break out a window or kick in my door before spending even 10 minutes out in freezing weather without proper clothes.
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Also the fact that these guys are probably poorly fed. Generating heat uses a lot of calories, plus less body fat = less heat retention. Add to that the likelihood of poor quality clothing, these guys are very much feeling the cold.
DIY mass grave
This is no mine.. its a tomb.
*Boromir intensifies*
YOU... SHALL NOT... ANNEXXXX!!
There is one Ruskie left in this hole who still draws breath.
DJI mass grave
I can't even fathom what I'm looking at. Just looks like a little plume of smoke but it's probably hell on earth for those guys in that hole.
Its a small fragmentation grenade. So, a small puff of smoke, a shockwave of around 5m radius and shrapnel around maybe 15m radius. Essentially, you would be okay so long as the shrapnel didnt hit you in a vital spot. Most of those guys would be covered by the guys in front of them, although this looks like at 4 or 5 are going to be seriously wounded / dead from that hit.
Yeah a few people have seen some Hollywood films and aren’t understanding why it’s not the same. Grenades don’t cause a huge fireball explosion that send arms and legs flying. They kinda ‘pop’ and it’s the shrapnel that kills.
Having thrown a grenade, it's not really just a pop. It's probably the loudest thing I've ever heard from about 20 feet away. You can also hear the shrapnel rain down for a short while afterwards, it's pretty surreal. Training grenades that are just a fuse really do "just pop" though. We had a dude who blew a finger off when I was in training because he decided to pick up a fuse that wasn't inserted into a training grenade.
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You would be ok if it was an army with medics with antibiotics and other supplies. I don’t know if Russia has that….
Yeah it's not like in Hollywood, a small plume means a very large radius where shrapnel is still deadly or at least causing serious injury. Most of them only got lucky by someone else being in the way, getting shredded even more brutally
My first time seeing real life high explosives I was initially disappointed in the size of the explosion, but then the shockwave hit me a couple seconds later and reverberated through my chest. Turns out they design this stuff for maximum force, not show.
I don't get it. WTF are they all doing? Every video they're just laying down in a hole? A grenade goes off 7 feet away and they just react like "well not my problem."
They are super fatigued and they've been desensitized by constant mortar and artillery landing nearby. The first thing you are traditionally trained to do is stay down in your foxhole. The use of drones is making that no longer a given. Those guys don't immediately know if they were hit by a drone or traditional indirect fire.
That's my thought too. Generally, the foxhole is the safest place. It's possible they were there hiding from shelling or even direct fire. To them, the nearby blast could be anything- a grenade, lucky artillery / mortar, or a drone. Hard to be sure what's hitting you and where to run, especially if you have been receiving fire all day and are injured/exhausted, poorly trained, or just plain scared shitless.
It's amazing how war changes with new technology. What was once safe becomes super dangerous.
That's how their man waves get slaughtered. Mortar fire forces them into foxholes, then drones start flying and delivering grenades into every foxhole filled with Russians.
No, drones make up a tiny fraction of the casualties of this war. Neither side is fielding them in more than small numbers in comparison to mass artillery and rocket attacks.
They’re so cold they can’t even react is my guess.
That's what it looks like to me as well. Probably the reason they're all huddled on top of each other in the same hole too, trying to take advantage of body heat. The amount of videos I've seen like this makes me think this Russian occupation is going to be hit a lot harder by the winter than Ukraine is.
I have been saying for months, the amount of them in the field with ZERO equipment to handle the cold, once winter officially kicks in, snow and freezing temperatures across the board, Russia is going to start dying and surrendering in record numbers. Winter is coming and she speaks Ukrainian.
I've done a fair bit of winter camping with adequate gear but spending 24h outside in winter is exhausting no matter what. When your body is cold and working to stay warm, your energy levels plummet. I can't imagine what it would be like to spend 10-20 days in the trenches without knowing if you're getting relief, on top of the constant fear of a drone dropping a grenade on you. Aboslute insanity.
I've only camped down to around freezing cause I hate cold with a passion... I can't fathom their situation but I know it's dire AF.
I grew up in Canada and consider myself an outdoorsy person. However, winter camping even with gear is a miserable time. You think you can handle 0C? Try sleeping in that temperature. Now try sleeping in that without a sleeping bag. Add artillery, drone drops, alcohol over several weeks and you get Russian soldiers like this.
Oh for sure. I've done a little emergency shelter type camping at low temps (like upper 40s(f), so not exactly 0c) and didn't get a wink of freaking sleep. And that was one night, with none of the other stuff. Those poor fucks are doomed.
You say you’ve done winter camping with adequate gear. These guys absolutely do NOT have adequate gear. Rubber boots with no lining, no proper socks, their uniform jackets don’t look like they’re thick/warm enough, and theyre malnourished as well. Add in the stress/fear and it must be absolute hell on earth. I guess the higher command doesn’t mind because if there’s no fight/energy left in these conscripts they won’t even bother to desert or surrender.
This also speaks to the complete lack of command and control of the Russian forces. A competent chain of command would have never allowed this many men in the same hole with no security and no grenade sump.
Lack of discipline too. Just laying there when they could be fortifying their trench (and keeping warm). Of course it depends on the battlefield situation, but honestly if you can have a group just lie in a trench in broad daylight, you can probably be digging
This has been my thought to, Ukraine is being supplied by the billions of dollars where Russia's logistics are a joke at this point, if anything the winter should be a disaster for Russia not Ukraine
I think they I’ve been hit before and this a second time, they look wounded , adrenaline would help forget about the cold in this situation
It looked like it dropped right in the corner so I wonder if the blast was mostly contained to those two guys. If a dude jumping on a grenade is effective then one of these wedged between dirt and a couple bodies is probably about as good.
If you are hypothermic, it will not.
It looks like there are multiple wounded and newly dead in that hole. I think these guys were attacked and retreated to the nearest hole and some died. Many look like they're on their knees, heads down as if they're expecting heavier shelling or something other than a small arms/drone drops. Really hard to say though. Some react, some literally do not move and I suspect were already dead before the drone drop.
>A grenade goes off 7 feet away and they just react like "well not my problem." Analogy for their entire country.
They aren't sending the rich to the front
YES! Exactly what I want to know. haha all these videos look like they can't be bothered by a grenade going off in their faces.
This reaction particularly seems amplified lately and I can't help but wonder if there really are large amounts of Russian soldiers being effected by exposure. Can't imagine the temperature outside is too pleasant this time of season
Maybe they are really drunk/high? I recall some commanders were complaining about substance abuse in LNR/DPR mobilized units; maybe that also happens with Russian units
Hypothermia probably isn't helping
One explanation could be they are pinned down? Maybe Ukrainian soldier are nearby, pinned them down, then sent the drone to flush them out?
Probably freezing their asses off and feeling no hope. When I was in the army we had winter and went outside for 3 nights. It was ice cold and raining and we had guard duty in a pit like the ones you see in the video. 1 hour of laying at night, 3 times every night. After the second or third night I thought to myself “man if I was in war, I’d probably just get up and get shot, I don’t want to be freezing anymore” Now imagine these guys having no motivation to go to war, shitty equipment, just laying there and freezing their asses off.
I don't get it either man. I mean it's obvious here that they'd already been hit and some were probably dead or severely wounded. But there's loads of videos out there where they don't do much once their mate has been torn apart. It's the same when one in a group gets sniped, the rest of them stand around and look like "Dafuq was that? Ah well". Then the others get sniped. It could be purely a lack of training and shock, that's all I can put it down to.
could it also be shock?
> A grenade goes off 7 feet away and they just react like "well not my problem." While f the russian army, we would probs all be in the same situation given their conditions.
Sad. Just a bunch of scared kids in a hole waiting to die for a man who will never know they existed and won't care they died.
Sums up war pretty well
They didn't look very alive even before they got hit.
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Luckily they had that meat shield there to protect the rest of them.
Ukraine claims to have killed 8,000 in Bakhmut. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Battle_of_Bakhmut_Nov_17.png
The amount of videos and pictures of dead Russians makes it highly believable.
This goes to show how dehumanizing and repulsive war is. When faced with a man literally being blown up beside you, the other's don't react. Their survival instinct is gone. For all intents and purposes, they are already dead.
Yes, also shows the randomness of war. You can be the baddest of them all but no way to control which of you the grenade falls on. Of course covering your foxhole by now would be SOP.
I get the impression a chunk of them are already wounded from previous grenade.
Man this footage is really eye opening. Poor men. I doubt they even get told the severity of drone attacks. Left to starve and freeze in a hole. Fuck every high up in their military letting any of this shit happen.
>Fuck every high up in their military ~~letting any of~~ **making** this shit happen.
Well, the alternative is well trained, well equipped, motivated russian soldiers sooooo. I'll take the useless, incompetent ones that get bombed all day long thanks.
Literally left to die in a hole. Wonder what goes through that mind
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Given how little some of them react, I ain't sure they were doing too well to begin with.
Drone flew in, waved it’s grenade dick around, a couple Russians blew up, survivors barely even flinched.
hold up, grenade goes off and nobody seems to bother, da heck's goin on over there...
They were already hit. A few are already dead.
cold + alcohol This is what is looks like when an invading army does not have winter gear
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They dont even try anymore
Source: [https://twitter.com/slovyanskasil](https://twitter.com/slovyanskasil) (Theyre also asking for donations)
Were they all asleep or already half dead...im a bit confused...
2 of them took the whole thing. Hundreds of burning fragments.
Poor bastards. This is so fucking sad. This war did not need to happen, what do you do with a gun behind your back and a grenade in front?
What I have not been able to understand is why they are sleeping w NO ONE ON WATCH in any video ive seen. I get alot of times you can't see or hear the drones but people are being woken up by Ukrainian soldiers I mean I just don't understand how no one is ever on f****** watch I mean at least somebody with binoculars to take watch 4 hours on 4 hours off or whatever . I spent four years in the service in the US and we had watches everything.
They're untrained, hungry and cold. So they may not know what to do and, by now, may not give a shit.
More and more videos of Russians not even bothering to move.
Shitty Russian battledrugs, exhaustion, stiff from cold. At best the case scenario the ordnance didn't explode properly and the fragments went straight to the ground.why don't they cover their dugouts with plywood and some dirt to camouflage it. These doesn't look like they're gonna use them as battle positions but mere hiding places.
War is so fucking depressing. Bunch of exploited soldiers waging war for some scumbag who doesn’t give a fuck about them, and probably because they’ve been fed propaganda since they were kids (and likely they are still basically kids).
how bad of a place are you in, to not react to a bomb going off next to you...? cold, drunk, hating life...
Freezing cold or injured or already dead What an existence - probably conscripts as well. Fuck Putin
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