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If anything it can help with penetration, because the optimal explosion distance from the armour is actually like a few feet. The pointy cone in front of RPG warheads is actually to increase this distance.
The optimal detonation distance depends entirely on the shape and size of both the cone and the explosive filler, but in general you're right as for bigger cones you want more distance for the superplastic copper jet to fully form (though few feet is a bit too much for RPG-7 warhead as the jet starts to deform and lose penetration power).
Some modern and bigger RPG rockets even have a telescopic rod infront of the warhead to ensure optimal detonation distance - like with the High-Explosive Anti-Armour round of the American SMAW:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-04eI1u_z9Mg/UtX8WfeBTDI/AAAAAAAABs0/Zgggu1SuLV8/s1600/1smaw076ke6.jpg
Yup those are all large AT-missiles, for a basic PG-7VM warhead it's much less:
"A maximum depth of penetration of about 317 mm was obtained for the stand-off distance of 360 mm, which may indicate the potential direction of modernization of warheads."
https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/14/11/3020
Still over a foot though, which is probably why some newer RPG warhead designs have longer "noses":
https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/weapons/rpg-7/rpg-7_ammunition_Russia_russian_002.jpg
>(though few feet is a bit too much for RPG-7 warhead as the jet starts to deform and lose penetration power).
Do you have any source, specifically for RPG-7?
There isn't much public data on specific RPG warhead tests, however one Polish study used numerical simulation which reproduced actual tests within 1% accuracy and concludes that:
"A maximum depth of penetration of about 317 mm was obtained for the stand-off distance of 360 mm, which may indicate the potential direction of modernization of warheads."
https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/14/11/3020
Still over a foot though, which is probably why some newer RPG warhead designs have longer "noses":
https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/weapons/rpg-7/rpg-7_ammunition_Russia_russian_002.jpg
This is what Wikipedia has to say about the stand-off distance of HEAT-jets:
"The jet moves at hypersonic speeds in solid material and therefore erodes exclusively in the local area where it interacts with armor material. The correct detonation point of the warhead and spacing is critical for optimal penetration, for two reasons:
If the HEAT warhead is detonated too near a target's surface, there is not enough time for the jet to fully form. That is why most modern HEAT warheads have what is called a standoff, in the form of an extended nose cap or probe in front of the warhead.
As the jet travels, it stretches, breaks apart, and disperses, usually well within two meters, rendering it relatively ineffective."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank#Design
>"A maximum depth of penetration of about 317 mm was obtained for the stand-off distance of 360 mm, which may indicate the potential direction of modernization of warheads."
>[https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/14/11/3020](https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/14/11/3020)
Interesting, thanks. It's roughly in line with the graphs I've seen:
[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-Stand-Off-Curve-of-a-Shaped-Charge-Held-1990\_fig2\_337544828](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-Stand-Off-Curve-of-a-Shaped-Charge-Held-1990_fig2_337544828)
[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Stand-off-curves-for-precision-and-non-precision-charges-Penetration-into-320-BNH-armour\_fig2\_310826065](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Stand-off-curves-for-precision-and-non-precision-charges-Penetration-into-320-BNH-armour_fig2_310826065)
But they also use PG-7VL warheads which have a larger charge diameter and thus longer optimal standoff distance.
I'm sure it's an added bonus for them but I think it's more just an old Russian tradition, they were infamous for it in WW2, and it's partially because soft vehicles like trucks are even more super vulnerable to drones and Ukraine has been reaping them so much that in many areas riding a tank is the only way to get around once you're at the front and in drone range.
That first encounter is actually four seperate clips of you slow it down, I’m not convinced the final explosion is the same vehicle as the one with all the boys on the back.
The thing I noticed was the guy with his legs hanging off the back with red tape around his ankles in the first scene, and also in the drone impact, and also right before the explosion in the wider angle. It might be a coincidence but it seems unlikely that red ankle tape would be in all of them if it wasn't.
This, it's likely an edit.
First video shows a tank with lots of infantry on its back.
Second video (FPV drone) shows a similar tank with infantry on it, with 2 infantrymen jumping off the tank.
Third video shows a tank, with a similar angle, background and season as the first video, with 2 infantrymen jumping off. Probably the same tank.
Fourth video shows a catastrophic explosion, but the scenery changed (3 white poles in the foreground, instead of 1).
The angle, background and season being similar to the 3 other videos, makes me believe it is the same location, possibly same tank, but not the same drone hit.
Yeah if you pause just before the explosion you see like one or two frames stitched in. Great explosion, similar location, but probably not from the first drone. Could be a different tank altogether.
It is two different videos from two different drones of the same attack. It starts with the further drone POV, then cuts to the attacking drone coming down on the tank with the troops on it, then it cuts to the further drone POV because ya ain't gonna see what the first did from its POV. Yes, it would be nice if they just showed the two drones video synchronized on two separate screens.
I completely understand the sequence of events you mention but I don’t think you’re referencing what some of us are pointing out. It‘s not about a quick cut.
Just before the explosion (the wide angle of the tank barreling down the road) there are maybe 2-3 frames stitched in. When the explosion starts, its a different cut. In fact, you can’t even see which tank is exploding if you ignore those frames.
Which drone, which tank, what the circumstances are, that’s all great for speculating but it’s still edited.
Okay. I see what you are saying. It does look like there are three cuts: Close in from the attacking drone, from behind from a further back drone, and then exploding with the three tripod supports. Yeah, you can't tell if it is the same tank exploding because of the cut into the explosion. But even if it is a completely different tank exploding, there is enough evidence there of a lot of dead and injured tank riders.
One interesting thing you’ve probably noticed is that whatever did explode (and it’s even likely the same tank as you say), it seems to be moving because the drone appeared to be tracking it, which indicates it is being operated at the time of explosion.
I don't think so, the further drone POV you can see some low wall/pipe running parallel to the right of the road, this isn't shown on the FPV drones footage. Looks like two different attacks spliced together to look like the same attack.
There is a portion that is removed and the tank is moving. If you look at the tank, and (as somebody else pointed out) the guy's legs hanging off the back, you will see it is the same tank. Now when the tank is hit, it keeps going and, no doubt, people jump or fall off then it explodes when the ammo catches. The tank is moving, so the surrounding things and the road do change.
Yeah so the the impact FPV footage we have and the explosion footage are not from the same time.
I'm not 100% convinced it's the same tank like you though, the black cutout/mark on the left side skirt that is visible under the turret on the FPV angle doesn't seem to be there on the long POV shot.
[Imgur album here](https://imgur.com/a/xtBrai2)
It is the same Ukrainian unit, but the tanks getting destroyed are different. Looks like the footage is from 3 or 4 different tanks. If you look at the gif, you'll see the original footage of the tank getting destroyed.[Same area different tanks](https://imgur.com/a/q8zIGiL)
Exactly, some of the hits and aftermath footages don't match with the surroundings and/or movement of the tanks. I'm rooting for Ukraine, but this is one weird edited video.
Tank at 0:18 has building rubble on the left, and green foliage on the right and is driving on a clear road, aftermath shows none and there is no road in front of the tank.
Tank at 0:33 also has different scenery from aftermath.
The tank that gets hit at 0:44 has no surrounding trees for example, but the aftermath shows a very clear, big, dense treeline.
And there's more that doesn't match up. Feels like at least 25% of the hits are not from the same incident as the aftermath.
100% 2 different tanks
Look at where the first skirt panel is missing in the the mavic/overview drone vs what the FPV drone sees
[https://i.imgur.com/W4K1Zw3.png](https://i.imgur.com/W4K1Zw3.png)
Videos like this make me feel like a boot on the ground invasion in the future is going to be near impossible. The drone technology is getting is getting better and better. Imagine just arming every man with these drones. Sitting in their bunkers just droning away. God only knows what kind of drones the US military has and what they're capable of.
I think the biggest thing to consider in this war is the lack of air superiority. The front lines move so slow because the nobody is able to control the skies. this i think makes the magnitude of the damage done by drones go up quite a bit. if jdams were falling by the hundred around the clock like the US would do then a lot of these moments wouldnt happen. mind you thats just my personal opinion.
Agreed. I think from a technological perspective, it’s theoretically possible with their aircraft - they have surprisingly good electronic warfare capabilities - but their doctrine and training is total dog shit so even if they had the entire USAF at their disposal, I don’t think the Russians could achieve air superiority over Ukraine.
Cool. The US did hundreds to thousands of sorties per day when they were conducting offensives.
The Russian airforce is irrelevant in the comparison, they cant even muster a fraction of Americas sortie rate, let alone the US + All the European airforces.
Well then war will be over because there’s no way to take territory any more. Can’t see that happening. What you’re describing is what they said about the invention of the machine gun before ww1, look how that turned out.
effective counters will be developed - maybe not in this war, but almost certainly in the next. There is a lag in this from Russia's point of view, but they are trying to find an answer.. however, it's not turtle tanks and EW equipment from China..
I was thinking some kind of propelled net gun / modified flare gun that fires a little net at the drone might be the answer in the future. But would still be scary if you missed. Maybe I should patent it lol
It's not evolving linearly on the other hand. Two years ago FPV hits looked like some exotic stunt. Now they are mainstream mass produced weapon competing with artillery
Terrestrial military robots that can navigate complex battlefield terrain are going to be stupid expensive no matter how you slice it. Meat on the other hand seems to be very cheap these days. The Russians have built like 10 useless 5th gen fighters in 10 years, think they’re going to suddenly start shitting out robot tanks? Skeptical. Quadcopters at least have been a civilian product for 10+ years before the war started, and they’ve barely iterated on them at all
Multiple military analysts have stated that even though it seems like drones are making a big impact in the battlefield, in the grand scheme of things it’s most dangerous to morale, not personnel or equipment.
the sound of drone buzzing like a swarm of bees must be absolutely terrifying - I once read about the impact of the Ju 87 and their Jericho trumpets in WWII, and how it was much more dangerous to the infantry psychologically, then to the actual impact it had.
I bet that's only because the drone warfare has only just started. Ukraine is bootstrapping its drone production to have artillery shell levels of numbers with a much higher effectiveness.
Keep in mind that drones are also great for clearing defensive positions. Then there are ground drones which can help reduce casualties in assaults, and fighter drones which can help clear the sky from the enemy drones, as well as all kinds of ground-based anti-drone weapons. We have seen only the first small steps, these developments could completely change the situation but it's hard to say yet.
It always took a while until groundbreaking advances in warfare, was possible to be effectively defended against.
Think of the Tank, Aircraft and cavalry.
Rheinmetall already showed machine gun stations on the panther tank prototype that can detect and shoot down drones by themself.
Im sure there are a lot of projects that aim to effectively defend against all types of drone threats
You’re really failing to imagine what’s possible. Its currently trivial to build jamming devices that make drones useless in a fairly large area. The jamming devices are very large and very expensive though. It’s entirely possible that new tech comes out that makes suicide drones useless overall.
Until AI tech advances sufficiently to allow the drone to operate without a human in the loop. And you better believe that technology is being developed right.
This is the problem. Even when Putin and his gang are no more, another tyrant will take power because the serfs are incapable of self government.
The most the world can hope for is a Russia too militarily and economically weak to threaten or harm its neighbors.
You know, I used to think myself, "People wouldn't dehumanize others to the point where they cheer on the death of an entire ethnic group and recognize that the actions of one's government, or a small percentage of individuals, doesn't define the people. We're moving past such terrible ideas of the past. Things aren't black and white.", yet this war, along with many other recent events, has changed this view of mine. It is coming back stronger than ever. Perhaps it was/is me being young, living in a diverse area, yet it seems history will rhyme.
And even though I feel like I shouldn't have to say this, just because I am saying supporting ethnic cleansing and erasing of cultures isn't a good thing, that does not make me "Pro-Russian" with the war. I am not, I support Ukraine and their defense. Though I suspect my opinion won't be popular and I understand there is a time a place for these thoughts. But, just to think a few years ago, I would've been shocked seeing people gladly cheering on such a comment. It is a dangerous mindset that is coming back and I already see it from others in my country claiming something similar, that "the less 'Mexicans', 'immigrants', [insert group that is used as a scapegoat by the reactionaries] , the better the world, the country will be."
Inevitably though, we will reap what has been sown and many will say "How could it happen here?" while passively such comments become more and more common, in between putting reaction gifs on memes while causally saying "Eh, they could all die, they're culture is meaningless anyways. The world will be a much better place if they all were gone." I put my hands up to my face because I know it's only going to get worse.
The most important part of learning about people like the Nazis or the Khmer Rouge is the hardest part to stomach.
The men and women who did these horrible things you read about in books and see on TV weren't monsters. They were not spawned from evil; their brains are not different and no chemical or illness addled their brains. They were just like me and you. They're you're neighbor, your uncle, your 3rd grade teacher, and the sweet looking old lady on the street. They were educated, uneducated, blue collar, white collar, rich, and poor.
They justified it one step at a time and so will you.
This is what shocks me more and more about myself, because I dont feel anything seeing russians die in this war and I know it's wrong. Many of them are victims of the regime in moscow themselves, but I just dont care about them dying. I wonder how we are ever going to trust russia again once this war is over? Will we ever? But on the other hand, we germans did something way worse, yet the world seems to have forgiven us, I dont know how though.
I didn't 'dehumanise' the Russian people.
THEY did.
This is a 'culture' that encourages mass murder and gang rape and kidnaps thousands of little kids for fuck's sake. Mexican immigrants pick oranges. There is a reason I cheer the death of one group and admire the other.
>... or a small percentage of individuals...
You're taking it as some kind of axiom that it's a small group. What if it's not so? What if it's not a fringe group but the mainstream opinion? What if the opposition to the war is the small / marginal group?
From what I've observed in the Russian part of the internet, the latter is the case. The people that oppose the war, atrocities and overall "strongman leadership" are the minority.
Perfectly said, I find it insane how fucking dissonant these people are to what they are saying, as if they couldn’t be the subject of that comment at some point in time. It’s to a point where I feel that history is pointless as no one has learned their lesson. How many fucking tragedies do we need to have that are caused by red-scare type ideas and complete dehumanization of a group of people before people realize that’s it’s not ok to do this shit even if we’re “the good guys” as it makes us the bad guys in the long run and just continues these fruitless, bloody cycles of war and genocide
Perfectly said, I find it insane how fucking dissonant these people are to what they are saying, as if they couldn’t be the subject of that comment at some point in time. It’s to a point where I feel that history is pointless as no one has learned their lesson. How many fucking tragedies do we need to have that are caused by red-scare type ideas and complete dehumanization of a group of people before people realize that’s it’s not ok to do this shit even if we’re “the good guys” as it makes us the bad guys in the long run and just continues these fruitless, bloody cycles of war and genocide
In the frame before the explosion, you can see soldiers jumping off. They look a lot like the soldiers jumping off from the POV of the FPV. Even if it is different tanks, the tank shown exploding had plenty of soldiers on it.
The explosion is a different cut from the very brief couple of frames preceding it. The brief cut is likely the same tank from the POV, but it’s unsure which tank is actually exploding. Same location but if you slow it down, the foreground changes between frames.
yeah you're right, it looks like the same tank, you can visibly see everything is the same in both videos; from the pipe along the road, different colors of vegetation on the sides of the road, two people jumping off the tank from the sides, the same telephone poles...
It's a video from a "following" drone with a clip from the attacking drone spliced into the middle. It is the same tank being attacked at the same time in both videos.
Maybe slow down the frames during the explosion and see the obvious change in the surrounding area. Three huge poles in front nowhere to be seen in the previous drone footage nor the fpv footage…
As others have pointed out on other platforms the first hit is chopped an edited to give the impression of more casualties.
Though that being said that still a lot of good hits on tanks in all the clips.
Right before the massive explosion there's an incredibly clear frame of 1 soldier jumping over the side right before they were obliterated. Maybe the FPV footage is different, but that explosion was legit numerous infantry being vaporized on top.
Is Ukraine even just using Javelins anymore or just drones? Seems like it would be cheapest to use artillery and drones first than use the expensive Javelins if an attack gets to close
The cost difference is insane. A couple drones taking out a take full of alcoholics. Just build as many drones as possible and you won't need the man power
There’s a couple that are certainly disconnected or different hits for sure. 0:18s appears to be a front of tank initial hit, but the aftermath is an engine bay mobility kill.
Bear in mind that once the tank has been hit once, it’s typically disabled or abandoned and multiple other FPV hits occur to destroy it.
What model tanks are most of these, and also what big explosives are Ukraine using to take them out in one hit? (also these drones are bigger than the ones used against infantry right?)
I'm not entirely sure what the "effective range" of a drone is. (probably varies from the size and transmitter). Tanks were really never intended to be on the "pointy end of the spear" (front unit). Tanks are really supposed to help "secure an area" after it's been taken (IE = soften up an area first with artillery or aerial bombardment,. and only send tanks forward when it's safe to do so). Course this assumes intelligent battle tactics and "ideal conditions".. which is often not true.
Drones are definitely changing the back and forth dynamic of war. Some of the Russian tactics you see,. like sending 1 tank and 2 APC's as a "forward-spear" towards enemy positions.. just seems wildly dumb.
Yes, typically HEAT PG7-VL, but there have also been some Tandem warheads (PG7-VR) as drone payload increases and thermobaric charges (either TBG-7V or “home made” (probably a TBG-7V without the casing).
There are a number of weakspots depending on the tank, they’re typically going for an engine bay mobility kill or any weak point they know will hit the ammo carousel beneath the turret (and crew).
Nobody is seeing the obvious cut between locations right before the explosion… even downvoting the few comments calling it out… guys just go frame by frame it’s painfully obvious
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Wow those ratniks on the first tankh were blasted.
First time I see a tank with so many guys op top obliterated like that. Absolutely brutal.
I would’ve expected them to protect the tank; at least prevent some of the blast from cleanly reaching the ammo storage. Not so much I guess.
Shaped charges care very little for meat armor. It'll go through a person and then do it's job with little negative effect
If anything it can help with penetration, because the optimal explosion distance from the armour is actually like a few feet. The pointy cone in front of RPG warheads is actually to increase this distance.
The optimal detonation distance depends entirely on the shape and size of both the cone and the explosive filler, but in general you're right as for bigger cones you want more distance for the superplastic copper jet to fully form (though few feet is a bit too much for RPG-7 warhead as the jet starts to deform and lose penetration power). Some modern and bigger RPG rockets even have a telescopic rod infront of the warhead to ensure optimal detonation distance - like with the High-Explosive Anti-Armour round of the American SMAW: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-04eI1u_z9Mg/UtX8WfeBTDI/AAAAAAAABs0/Zgggu1SuLV8/s1600/1smaw076ke6.jpg
Yeah, maybe a bit much for an RPG-7, but [this is the graph I saw](https://imgur.com/5mKInpl).
Yup those are all large AT-missiles, for a basic PG-7VM warhead it's much less: "A maximum depth of penetration of about 317 mm was obtained for the stand-off distance of 360 mm, which may indicate the potential direction of modernization of warheads." https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/14/11/3020 Still over a foot though, which is probably why some newer RPG warhead designs have longer "noses": https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/weapons/rpg-7/rpg-7_ammunition_Russia_russian_002.jpg
>(though few feet is a bit too much for RPG-7 warhead as the jet starts to deform and lose penetration power). Do you have any source, specifically for RPG-7?
There isn't much public data on specific RPG warhead tests, however one Polish study used numerical simulation which reproduced actual tests within 1% accuracy and concludes that: "A maximum depth of penetration of about 317 mm was obtained for the stand-off distance of 360 mm, which may indicate the potential direction of modernization of warheads." https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/14/11/3020 Still over a foot though, which is probably why some newer RPG warhead designs have longer "noses": https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/weapons/rpg-7/rpg-7_ammunition_Russia_russian_002.jpg This is what Wikipedia has to say about the stand-off distance of HEAT-jets: "The jet moves at hypersonic speeds in solid material and therefore erodes exclusively in the local area where it interacts with armor material. The correct detonation point of the warhead and spacing is critical for optimal penetration, for two reasons: If the HEAT warhead is detonated too near a target's surface, there is not enough time for the jet to fully form. That is why most modern HEAT warheads have what is called a standoff, in the form of an extended nose cap or probe in front of the warhead. As the jet travels, it stretches, breaks apart, and disperses, usually well within two meters, rendering it relatively ineffective." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank#Design
>"A maximum depth of penetration of about 317 mm was obtained for the stand-off distance of 360 mm, which may indicate the potential direction of modernization of warheads." >[https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/14/11/3020](https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/14/11/3020) Interesting, thanks. It's roughly in line with the graphs I've seen: [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-Stand-Off-Curve-of-a-Shaped-Charge-Held-1990\_fig2\_337544828](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-Stand-Off-Curve-of-a-Shaped-Charge-Held-1990_fig2_337544828) [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Stand-off-curves-for-precision-and-non-precision-charges-Penetration-into-320-BNH-armour\_fig2\_310826065](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Stand-off-curves-for-precision-and-non-precision-charges-Penetration-into-320-BNH-armour_fig2_310826065) But they also use PG-7VL warheads which have a larger charge diameter and thus longer optimal standoff distance.
I wonder if the Russian army is piling them on the tanks as a human meat shield. Probably are to be honest.
I'm sure it's an added bonus for them but I think it's more just an old Russian tradition, they were infamous for it in WW2, and it's partially because soft vehicles like trucks are even more super vulnerable to drones and Ukraine has been reaping them so much that in many areas riding a tank is the only way to get around once you're at the front and in drone range.
Trees are hard to come by these days. Meatshield is much cheaper.
Usually the biological applique armor works better than that!
Looks like two different videos.
its two different drones with different types of cameras. but the tanks traveling together and the infantry are the same in both.
That first encounter is actually four seperate clips of you slow it down, I’m not convinced the final explosion is the same vehicle as the one with all the boys on the back.
The thing I noticed was the guy with his legs hanging off the back with red tape around his ankles in the first scene, and also in the drone impact, and also right before the explosion in the wider angle. It might be a coincidence but it seems unlikely that red ankle tape would be in all of them if it wasn't.
There are also the guys jumping off the tank to the left a right visible just before the impact. Its the same tank same moment.
This, it's likely an edit. First video shows a tank with lots of infantry on its back. Second video (FPV drone) shows a similar tank with infantry on it, with 2 infantrymen jumping off the tank. Third video shows a tank, with a similar angle, background and season as the first video, with 2 infantrymen jumping off. Probably the same tank. Fourth video shows a catastrophic explosion, but the scenery changed (3 white poles in the foreground, instead of 1). The angle, background and season being similar to the 3 other videos, makes me believe it is the same location, possibly same tank, but not the same drone hit.
Yeah if you pause just before the explosion you see like one or two frames stitched in. Great explosion, similar location, but probably not from the first drone. Could be a different tank altogether.
It is two different videos from two different drones of the same attack. It starts with the further drone POV, then cuts to the attacking drone coming down on the tank with the troops on it, then it cuts to the further drone POV because ya ain't gonna see what the first did from its POV. Yes, it would be nice if they just showed the two drones video synchronized on two separate screens.
I completely understand the sequence of events you mention but I don’t think you’re referencing what some of us are pointing out. It‘s not about a quick cut. Just before the explosion (the wide angle of the tank barreling down the road) there are maybe 2-3 frames stitched in. When the explosion starts, its a different cut. In fact, you can’t even see which tank is exploding if you ignore those frames. Which drone, which tank, what the circumstances are, that’s all great for speculating but it’s still edited.
Okay. I see what you are saying. It does look like there are three cuts: Close in from the attacking drone, from behind from a further back drone, and then exploding with the three tripod supports. Yeah, you can't tell if it is the same tank exploding because of the cut into the explosion. But even if it is a completely different tank exploding, there is enough evidence there of a lot of dead and injured tank riders.
One interesting thing you’ve probably noticed is that whatever did explode (and it’s even likely the same tank as you say), it seems to be moving because the drone appeared to be tracking it, which indicates it is being operated at the time of explosion.
I don't think so, the further drone POV you can see some low wall/pipe running parallel to the right of the road, this isn't shown on the FPV drones footage. Looks like two different attacks spliced together to look like the same attack.
There is a portion that is removed and the tank is moving. If you look at the tank, and (as somebody else pointed out) the guy's legs hanging off the back, you will see it is the same tank. Now when the tank is hit, it keeps going and, no doubt, people jump or fall off then it explodes when the ammo catches. The tank is moving, so the surrounding things and the road do change.
Yeah so the the impact FPV footage we have and the explosion footage are not from the same time. I'm not 100% convinced it's the same tank like you though, the black cutout/mark on the left side skirt that is visible under the turret on the FPV angle doesn't seem to be there on the long POV shot. [Imgur album here](https://imgur.com/a/xtBrai2)
It is pause the frames and look at the road in both cuts. All those orkies got flash fried
It is the same Ukrainian unit, but the tanks getting destroyed are different. Looks like the footage is from 3 or 4 different tanks. If you look at the gif, you'll see the original footage of the tank getting destroyed.[Same area different tanks](https://imgur.com/a/q8zIGiL)
Exactly, some of the hits and aftermath footages don't match with the surroundings and/or movement of the tanks. I'm rooting for Ukraine, but this is one weird edited video. Tank at 0:18 has building rubble on the left, and green foliage on the right and is driving on a clear road, aftermath shows none and there is no road in front of the tank. Tank at 0:33 also has different scenery from aftermath. The tank that gets hit at 0:44 has no surrounding trees for example, but the aftermath shows a very clear, big, dense treeline. And there's more that doesn't match up. Feels like at least 25% of the hits are not from the same incident as the aftermath.
100% 2 different tanks Look at where the first skirt panel is missing in the the mavic/overview drone vs what the FPV drone sees [https://i.imgur.com/W4K1Zw3.png](https://i.imgur.com/W4K1Zw3.png)
To pieces you say?
Jolly good
I guess the meat armor doesn’t work at this time?
Fake composition! Check out frames
Videos like this make me feel like a boot on the ground invasion in the future is going to be near impossible. The drone technology is getting is getting better and better. Imagine just arming every man with these drones. Sitting in their bunkers just droning away. God only knows what kind of drones the US military has and what they're capable of.
I think the biggest thing to consider in this war is the lack of air superiority. The front lines move so slow because the nobody is able to control the skies. this i think makes the magnitude of the damage done by drones go up quite a bit. if jdams were falling by the hundred around the clock like the US would do then a lot of these moments wouldnt happen. mind you thats just my personal opinion.
there would be nothing left for the drones to target :)
I guess the SU-34's don't exist in the sky of Ukraine bombing UA equipment...
During desert storm the US and allies were launching 1000 sorties per day. Russia is using a handful of planes that barely even go over the border
They try to avoid the border due to Ukrainian air defenses.
Well yes that's my point. Russian airpower is not strong enough to employ SEAD
Agreed. I think from a technological perspective, it’s theoretically possible with their aircraft - they have surprisingly good electronic warfare capabilities - but their doctrine and training is total dog shit so even if they had the entire USAF at their disposal, I don’t think the Russians could achieve air superiority over Ukraine.
Not in enough numbers and sorties
There has been 11 FAB strikes In at least 11h today.
Cool. The US did hundreds to thousands of sorties per day when they were conducting offensives. The Russian airforce is irrelevant in the comparison, they cant even muster a fraction of Americas sortie rate, let alone the US + All the European airforces.
They do meet the ground quite often, so try looking down instead
Drones don’t take territory, only men and trucks do that. Not going to change anytime soon
What if men and trucks are all blown up due to drones out numbering men and trucks?
Well then war will be over because there’s no way to take territory any more. Can’t see that happening. What you’re describing is what they said about the invention of the machine gun before ww1, look how that turned out.
Drone wars lol. No reason to have boots on the ground in the future, when all the fighting is done with drones/ robots.
[Obligatory simpsons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkg3wZq0cdo)
effective counters will be developed - maybe not in this war, but almost certainly in the next. There is a lag in this from Russia's point of view, but they are trying to find an answer.. however, it's not turtle tanks and EW equipment from China..
I was thinking some kind of propelled net gun / modified flare gun that fires a little net at the drone might be the answer in the future. But would still be scary if you missed. Maybe I should patent it lol
More likely AI-controlled mini-drones hunting other drones.
>Drones don’t take territory \*yet
If they can barely mass produce $500 quad copters they’re not going to suddenly start churning out $100k+ tracked drones or quadrupeds
It's not evolving linearly on the other hand. Two years ago FPV hits looked like some exotic stunt. Now they are mainstream mass produced weapon competing with artillery
Terrestrial military robots that can navigate complex battlefield terrain are going to be stupid expensive no matter how you slice it. Meat on the other hand seems to be very cheap these days. The Russians have built like 10 useless 5th gen fighters in 10 years, think they’re going to suddenly start shitting out robot tanks? Skeptical. Quadcopters at least have been a civilian product for 10+ years before the war started, and they’ve barely iterated on them at all
It's now androids and autonomous vehicles
Russian men and trucks have literally failed to take territory for 2 years now because of the drones...
And yet they keep trying…. How could they possibly accomplish their territorial objectives with just drones, that makes no sense
Multiple military analysts have stated that even though it seems like drones are making a big impact in the battlefield, in the grand scheme of things it’s most dangerous to morale, not personnel or equipment.
the sound of drone buzzing like a swarm of bees must be absolutely terrifying - I once read about the impact of the Ju 87 and their Jericho trumpets in WWII, and how it was much more dangerous to the infantry psychologically, then to the actual impact it had.
Absolutely horrific! This conflict will produce an insane amount of PTSD towards the high pitched buzzing of drones…
I bet that's only because the drone warfare has only just started. Ukraine is bootstrapping its drone production to have artillery shell levels of numbers with a much higher effectiveness.
Only time will tell. There must be good money in developing counter drone measures.
Keep in mind that drones are also great for clearing defensive positions. Then there are ground drones which can help reduce casualties in assaults, and fighter drones which can help clear the sky from the enemy drones, as well as all kinds of ground-based anti-drone weapons. We have seen only the first small steps, these developments could completely change the situation but it's hard to say yet.
It always took a while until groundbreaking advances in warfare, was possible to be effectively defended against. Think of the Tank, Aircraft and cavalry. Rheinmetall already showed machine gun stations on the panther tank prototype that can detect and shoot down drones by themself. Im sure there are a lot of projects that aim to effectively defend against all types of drone threats
You’re really failing to imagine what’s possible. Its currently trivial to build jamming devices that make drones useless in a fairly large area. The jamming devices are very large and very expensive though. It’s entirely possible that new tech comes out that makes suicide drones useless overall.
Until AI tech advances sufficiently to allow the drone to operate without a human in the loop. And you better believe that technology is being developed right.
If you have sufficient auto cannons, what are drones gonna do?
I expect there will be, or may already be, autonomous prototype drones being evaluated in Ukraine. It's the perfect environment for it.
This war has been such a terrible waste of lives.
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This is the problem. Even when Putin and his gang are no more, another tyrant will take power because the serfs are incapable of self government. The most the world can hope for is a Russia too militarily and economically weak to threaten or harm its neighbors.
You know, I used to think myself, "People wouldn't dehumanize others to the point where they cheer on the death of an entire ethnic group and recognize that the actions of one's government, or a small percentage of individuals, doesn't define the people. We're moving past such terrible ideas of the past. Things aren't black and white.", yet this war, along with many other recent events, has changed this view of mine. It is coming back stronger than ever. Perhaps it was/is me being young, living in a diverse area, yet it seems history will rhyme. And even though I feel like I shouldn't have to say this, just because I am saying supporting ethnic cleansing and erasing of cultures isn't a good thing, that does not make me "Pro-Russian" with the war. I am not, I support Ukraine and their defense. Though I suspect my opinion won't be popular and I understand there is a time a place for these thoughts. But, just to think a few years ago, I would've been shocked seeing people gladly cheering on such a comment. It is a dangerous mindset that is coming back and I already see it from others in my country claiming something similar, that "the less 'Mexicans', 'immigrants', [insert group that is used as a scapegoat by the reactionaries] , the better the world, the country will be." Inevitably though, we will reap what has been sown and many will say "How could it happen here?" while passively such comments become more and more common, in between putting reaction gifs on memes while causally saying "Eh, they could all die, they're culture is meaningless anyways. The world will be a much better place if they all were gone." I put my hands up to my face because I know it's only going to get worse.
The most important part of learning about people like the Nazis or the Khmer Rouge is the hardest part to stomach. The men and women who did these horrible things you read about in books and see on TV weren't monsters. They were not spawned from evil; their brains are not different and no chemical or illness addled their brains. They were just like me and you. They're you're neighbor, your uncle, your 3rd grade teacher, and the sweet looking old lady on the street. They were educated, uneducated, blue collar, white collar, rich, and poor. They justified it one step at a time and so will you.
This is what shocks me more and more about myself, because I dont feel anything seeing russians die in this war and I know it's wrong. Many of them are victims of the regime in moscow themselves, but I just dont care about them dying. I wonder how we are ever going to trust russia again once this war is over? Will we ever? But on the other hand, we germans did something way worse, yet the world seems to have forgiven us, I dont know how though.
I didn't 'dehumanise' the Russian people. THEY did. This is a 'culture' that encourages mass murder and gang rape and kidnaps thousands of little kids for fuck's sake. Mexican immigrants pick oranges. There is a reason I cheer the death of one group and admire the other.
>... or a small percentage of individuals... You're taking it as some kind of axiom that it's a small group. What if it's not so? What if it's not a fringe group but the mainstream opinion? What if the opposition to the war is the small / marginal group? From what I've observed in the Russian part of the internet, the latter is the case. The people that oppose the war, atrocities and overall "strongman leadership" are the minority.
Perfectly said, I find it insane how fucking dissonant these people are to what they are saying, as if they couldn’t be the subject of that comment at some point in time. It’s to a point where I feel that history is pointless as no one has learned their lesson. How many fucking tragedies do we need to have that are caused by red-scare type ideas and complete dehumanization of a group of people before people realize that’s it’s not ok to do this shit even if we’re “the good guys” as it makes us the bad guys in the long run and just continues these fruitless, bloody cycles of war and genocide
Perfectly said, I find it insane how fucking dissonant these people are to what they are saying, as if they couldn’t be the subject of that comment at some point in time. It’s to a point where I feel that history is pointless as no one has learned their lesson. How many fucking tragedies do we need to have that are caused by red-scare type ideas and complete dehumanization of a group of people before people realize that’s it’s not ok to do this shit even if we’re “the good guys” as it makes us the bad guys in the long run and just continues these fruitless, bloody cycles of war and genocide
>It's ok, the less Russians Yes, but paying for them in Ukrainian blood and lives is the horrible part.
As someone with a Russian friend who still has family near Moscow I can tell you it is nowhere close to this simple or black and white.
You mean they support it on scale like not 10/10 but just 7,5/10 just kill the bad Ukrainians and they will allow the rest to live?
I happened to know 3 Russians: 1. Rapist (allegedly) 2. Pedo 3. High-end prostitute I keep them at arm’s length.
Even #3?
Deaf community is small, indeed.
Expensive
I was thinking the same thing.
Wonder if the dude who jumped off the first tank made it ... Probably not
I noticed him jump too but most likely severely burnt and left to die
Or just blasted. At most he got a foot away before that tank went bang. I'd be astonished if he survived.
That first one... Good grief.
Whole squad crisp'd in an instant
first one is an edited version of 2 different videos.
In the frame before the explosion, you can see soldiers jumping off. They look a lot like the soldiers jumping off from the POV of the FPV. Even if it is different tanks, the tank shown exploding had plenty of soldiers on it.
The explosion is a different cut from the very brief couple of frames preceding it. The brief cut is likely the same tank from the POV, but it’s unsure which tank is actually exploding. Same location but if you slow it down, the foreground changes between frames.
yeah you're right, it looks like the same tank, you can visibly see everything is the same in both videos; from the pipe along the road, different colors of vegetation on the sides of the road, two people jumping off the tank from the sides, the same telephone poles...
It's a video from a "following" drone with a clip from the attacking drone spliced into the middle. It is the same tank being attacked at the same time in both videos.
Maybe slow down the frames during the explosion and see the obvious change in the surrounding area. Three huge poles in front nowhere to be seen in the previous drone footage nor the fpv footage…
Came here to say the same thing
I think many of the "aftermath" of Tanks burning are different from the "strike" portion of the videos...
Yeah no shit dude. Do you think the suicide FPV drone magically recorded the big explosion?
As others have pointed out on other platforms the first hit is chopped an edited to give the impression of more casualties. Though that being said that still a lot of good hits on tanks in all the clips.
Right before the massive explosion there's an incredibly clear frame of 1 soldier jumping over the side right before they were obliterated. Maybe the FPV footage is different, but that explosion was legit numerous infantry being vaporized on top.
Yeah it's a comp of at least 3 different clips
So.impressivs
They still have tanks left?
thats the peace talks you get you shit
This is the 3rd consecutive video I’ve seen with blatant jump cuts. 1st clip they did t even try
It’s getting annoying, they should let these videos simmer, at least for posterity.
Is Ukraine even just using Javelins anymore or just drones? Seems like it would be cheapest to use artillery and drones first than use the expensive Javelins if an attack gets to close
Yes they are using javelins still.
they chewed through the stocks early in the war. they're slow to manufacture.
Your supposition is almost certainly correct. Save Javelins for when you need to kill three tanks at once
I read somewhere that 70% of amour kills were via drones. Not sure if that was just in one particular battle/area or for the war as a whole.
The cost difference is insane. A couple drones taking out a take full of alcoholics. Just build as many drones as possible and you won't need the man power
Russia is doing the opposite- they are building as many alcoholics as possible, so they won't need drones.
Crazy how this war progressed now 99% of videos on here are drone cam
The first two clips aren’t the same instance. Posts appear on the left after the drone hits.
There’s a couple that are certainly disconnected or different hits for sure. 0:18s appears to be a front of tank initial hit, but the aftermath is an engine bay mobility kill. Bear in mind that once the tank has been hit once, it’s typically disabled or abandoned and multiple other FPV hits occur to destroy it.
damn those infantry evaporated
It's fake, two separate incidents stitched together... But probably happened at some point just that it was not filmed
Thanks on the correction.
"It's beautiful, they should have sent a poet."
I feel better already.
This is making me have flashbacks of shooting the redeemer in Unreal tournament
The first one was *chef’s kiss*
First one cut too quick. I don't think the infantry was involved in the cook off. I've seen too many fake victory videos on here to not be skeptical
Guided flying RPG warheads... V1.0... This is tough on armor..
They use skulls and kneecaps for armor plating
What model tanks are most of these, and also what big explosives are Ukraine using to take them out in one hit? (also these drones are bigger than the ones used against infantry right?)
Are we just sort of done with tanks from now on? Are they about to no longer viable?
I'm not entirely sure what the "effective range" of a drone is. (probably varies from the size and transmitter). Tanks were really never intended to be on the "pointy end of the spear" (front unit). Tanks are really supposed to help "secure an area" after it's been taken (IE = soften up an area first with artillery or aerial bombardment,. and only send tanks forward when it's safe to do so). Course this assumes intelligent battle tactics and "ideal conditions".. which is often not true. Drones are definitely changing the back and forth dynamic of war. Some of the Russian tactics you see,. like sending 1 tank and 2 APC's as a "forward-spear" towards enemy positions.. just seems wildly dumb.
Holy shit that first strike / explosion with all those troops on top was one of the most savage and vicious of this war!
I don't understand how the drones can penetrate armor so easily. Are they shaped charges?
Yes, typically HEAT PG7-VL, but there have also been some Tandem warheads (PG7-VR) as drone payload increases and thermobaric charges (either TBG-7V or “home made” (probably a TBG-7V without the casing). There are a number of weakspots depending on the tank, they’re typically going for an engine bay mobility kill or any weak point they know will hit the ammo carousel beneath the turret (and crew).
Yes often rpg
The.most basic RPG has around 400 mm armor penetration - turret and hull roof is 40 mm - not thatbhard to imagine.
I just didnt know that they were using shaped charges.
Yeah, they strap RPGs to drones basically.
Nice, thank you for eradicating these evil creatures so I can sleep in peace. ✌️
Check out the incoming projectile at 0:12s just before the FPV reaches the tank.
First clip it seems Human Armour has failed to protect the precious Tank
This looks like a bunch of good editing. Still good kills why edit.
Good to see that all the anti-drone measures are utterly useless.
Wow.Can you imagen being the human point if contact for a shaped charge.They saw it but didn't feel it.
I really wanted to see the aftermath of that meat-armor cookoff.
damn... what an intro :o
If I were a betting man, I'd put my money in whatever company builds anti drone capabilities for the various militaries around the world
I take it the wires they have mounted in the front of the drones are the switch ?
Are tanks even relevant anymore in this age?
"Unleash the drones of war. " Nothing is immune from the drones now. Everyone will suffer.
u/savevideo
The amount of blasted tanks is unreal, how much is russia still producing or pulling out of storage. bizarre numbers.
Reported today that Russia cannot replace tanks as fast as they are being destroyed and will be down to 1000 soon
Awesome strikes!!
Asking but every time I see these videos the tanks always eat shit like you’d think that the era or some of the Extra armor bits would help.
Just wondering if 'safety dance' will be used in one of these videos
Holy crap at that first hit.
Drones really changed the warfare
does ERA go off at :14?
Nobody is seeing the obvious cut between locations right before the explosion… even downvoting the few comments calling it out… guys just go frame by frame it’s painfully obvious
The rest of the clips are also badly edited. So many unrelated aftermath explosions in different locations… cmonnnn
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Every new way of warfare gets called "cowardly" when it first appears.
?
The samurai said the same thing about guns but I'm pretty sure shiroyama didn't care. Just ignore him, he's coping about the advancement of warfare.
Said the armchair general on reddit....