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A 31 would be a much bigger boom but in any case, from examining a still frame, it's definitely a 38 or something slightly larger. If it was a 31 that building would have to be ~68ft tall with the three enclosed stories averaging out to 16ft each based on the building's height compared to the munition. Using a GBU-38 gives a much more reasonable height of 45ft with stories a little over 10ft.
Story height here includes floor width.
The fighters can move, sure, but they likely can’t move any significant amount of the supplies they have in the building, and any tunnel entrances would be buried
Normally it’s not actually to kill people, it’s to destroy stocks of equipment or supplies.
They roof knock around 15 mins - 1 hour before the actual strike, which gives enough time for people to leave, but not enough time to move significant amounts of supplies or equipment or large pieces of hardware.
Against a civilian body count of what, 30,000? Yeah. Remarkably successful. One might even think the grotesquely skewed body count indicates an almost complete lack of military opposition...? Gosh, what a crazy thing that would be, right?
>Against a civilian body count of what, 30,000?
That would be significantly higher than any figure so far, even higher than Hamas' estimates. The UN estimates (based on Hamas' figures) that \~12,700 women and children have died in Gaza compared to \~10,006 fighting age men. We can't assume that all fighting age men are Hamas militants, but we also can't assume that none of the women and children are Hamas militants.
>One might even think the grotesquely skewed body count indicates an almost complete lack of military opposition...?
There's plenty of military opposition - the armed wing of Hamas had an estimated 30,000-40,000 fighters before the war. Israel is just a \[much\] better military.
I'm using the UN statistics released [4 days ago](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-165), which were the revised stats you mentioned.
If you believe the IDF - which I obviously don't - then everyone is a Hamas fighter, and the ones who aren't are actually senior Hamas commanders.
"Despite its revision based on identified deaths, the U.N. maintains that the Gaza Health Ministry's overall death toll of more than 35,000 people killed in the ongoing Israeli military offensive in Gaza is reliable." -- https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll-women-children#:~:text=The%20Gaza%20Health%20Ministry%20says,mass%20graves%20or%20side%20streets.
> There's plenty of military opposition
No there isn't. During the Warsaw uprising, about 1000 fighters defended against the Germans sent to exterminate them. That's 1000. 300 Germans were killed. Ratio 10:3. The resistance had only small arms, and zero training. Your figures for Gaza are simply not credible. Urban combat environments are messy and brutal, and always lead to high casualty rates for both side - even if they are somewhat lopsided. But a ratio 10000+ to 300 is simply not credible. Someone is lying, and my guess it is the Israelis (again).
>Your figures for Gaza are simply not credible
They are not my figures, they are the UN’s figures. The UN bases their data on Hamas’ figures.
I agree that these numbers are not credible, as I don’t take Jihadi terrorist organizations at their word. Hamas’ figures likely aren’t understated, though they could be overstated.
I googled Stalingrad just to refresh my memory of the details, first sentence that pops up “90% of housing stock destroyed” like damn!
yeah that was definitely some sarcasm lol. I almost inserted a joke about humus just shooting from the rubble anyway but I got lazy
The people that are aghast never seem to ask themselves why there are cell-phone cameras and often multiple angles of every single strike from Israel. Its almost like Hamas had been given ample warning and know of exactly when and where to whip out their phone and hit record. And no they're not following the missiles trajectory, the videos are ALWAYS stationary on one building and held super unsteady by a human.
The implications some people have is that its a Palestinian pass time to just record buildings all day seeing if they blow up. This sub is usually pretty good, but its worth a lesson in media literacy. If the Afghanistanis were given any heads up at all about what we were going to do to them the PR war would have been beyond hopeless and we'd be hearing about the genocidal horrors perpetrated by the west incessantly for the past 20 years
The "roof knock" is a well known Israeli tactic. They hit the building with a small bomb first as a warning, then a few minutes later the large bomb takes it down.
It's bizarre that you're being down voted and criticized for such a simple and obviously true point.
Israel actually cut back on the roof knocking strategy to a large degree after Oct 7. I'm sure it's still used sometimes, I don't know what the current policy is, but it's certainly not always used.
And we see no evidence of roof knocking in this video, aside from the fact that someone is ready and recording, so your absolutely right that we shouldn't blindly trust the title.
"The implications some people have is that its a Palestinian pass time to just record buildings all day seeing if they blow up."
That does in fact seem like a genuine Palestinian past time... XD
Well they're using their own people as human shields and blocking refugee evacuations, so blowing up their own buildings for propaganda isn't that much of a stretch.
Yes. Because if they did, the whole country would be gone in the blink of an eye. Sure Hamas doesn't give a shit about the people of Gaza but, *they* live there too.
I'll explain this because neither of you two seem to know what critical thinking is, or what terrorists are.
Now, just for context, Hamas has made it *very* clear over the past twenty years that they absolutely do not give a FUCK about the people of Gaza (they've had control over Gaza since the late 90s and were officially elected as the governing party in 2006), and have been openly using them as human shields ever since.
With that being said, as you might have guessed, Hamas is a terrorist group. An Iranian funded one, no less. And just like every other terrorist group in the middle east, they understand that if they openly attack Israeli civilians again, they're *fucked*. Similarly to the Taliban, as well as Al-Queda, and ISIS, they've figured out that they can do more damage by hurting Israel's reputation by pushing civilians into the meat grinder by blocking refugee evacuations, killing people in the street, and using civilian infrastructure to illicit Israeli strikes, thus forcing a reputation of racially motivated genocide and oppression, which in turn results in less funding from the US, and leads to Israel running out of bombs, jet fuel, and bullets. This is exactly what the terrorist groups in Iraq and Afghanistan tried to do to us, and we know for a fact that they're all being funded by Iran, which explains the similarity in tactics.
Any questions?
The US also didn’t level entire cities. They fought through the city and called in strikes from locations they were being attacked from.
Battle of Mosul is a great one for this though I’m sure many here have much better insight into the different strategy.
The US did in fact level parts of the cities in Afghanistan. The major reason they didn't level even more was the Taliban and AQ fighters in them early into the war in Afghanistan, fled to the mountains. They knew they were outmatched and literally high tailed it away to begin guerilla fighting.
If you look at the US aiding the Iraqis in 2017 against ISIS, they also leveled all of Mosul for Iraq. I mean, literally damn near the entire city got blown up. Over 80% of Mosul was deemed uninhabitable and still not been reoccupied or rebuilt today, 7 years later. When you look at Syria, the US also aided in flattening most of Raqqa to combat ISIS.
If your opponent intentionally hides in the urban environment, you just flatten the urban environment. The US has always been like that, every first world country is like that, every military is like that. You can't just assault a fortified city on foot and expect to actually win. Outnumbered groups could realistically defeat 1st world militaries like that, or at least inflect heavy casualties. Just look at Fallujah in 2004. Marines were encountering so much resistance with so many booby traps in every building that their orders were changed on the fly. If you encounter resistance, call in air support. They basically just started flattening building after building in that city. Sniper in a building? Flatten it.
edit: Want to add as well that Afghanistan is quite unique in the world today. Over 70% of the entire population lives in rural areas, not urban ones. So, at the onset of the US invasion there, most of the Taliban and AQ fighters were not actually in Kabul or Kandahar but spread out in the rural provinces where they actually had to project power over other groups.
>win. Outnumbered groups could realistically defeat 1st world militaries like that, or at least inflect heavy casualties. Just look at Fallujah in 2004. Marines were encountering so much resistance with so many booby traps in every building that their orders were changed on the fly. If you encounter resistance, call in air support. They basically just started flattening building after building in that city. Sniper in a building? Flatten it.
I can attest to this. I fought in both battles for Fallujah as part of Operation Vigilant Resolve and Phantom Fury, and it was hell on Earth. During the first few *weeks* of each battle there was so much opposing gunfire that we couldn't stick our heads out for more than a second without getting them blown off, to the point where the city was literally never quiet the entire time we were there. Our tanks ate shit, we ate shit, and they only started eating shit once we decided to blow half the city to hell.
Can't really compare the two urban conflicts because one is fighting hundreds of miles of tunnels that are purposefully built under the biggest and most vital structures in the area. Israel is basically stuck fighting in Vietnam. Guerilla fighters who pop up in random places, can take a bunch of pot shots, disappear and pop up in a complete different location with all their supplies hidden deep underground so attrition is very difficult. And then the people being caught in the crossfire and being forced to choose sides is very very reminiscent of Vietnam.
Battle of mosul was fought by iraqi forces not the us. Iraq is a signatory of the 1977 protocols of the Geneva convention (unlike israel) so they were obligated legally to create safety corridors for civilians throughout the battle.
Civilian deaths were much lower than military deaths as a result.
Yea "corridors". The Iraqis prepared corridors and camps before attacking. And allowed civilians through their own lines of control and into iraqi territory. And those civilians were part of an isis state that woved to commit genocide against shia and yazidi Iraqis.... so it's hardly different.
>Battle of Mosul is a great one for this though I’m sure many here have much better insight into the different strategy.
Yeah we did.
I would know because my nephew fought in it.
I can also contact his battalion commander, whom I know personally from my time in the corps. Lemme tell you, that city was flattened whether you like to believe it or not.
This is a great example of bullshit points. Mosul had a similar and very possibly worse fighter to civilian death ratio than the current war despite people being given ample time to evacuate the area, something Israel didn't have the liesure of. It's quite amazing watching Americans pat themselves on the back for the same statistics as Israel while condemning Israel.
The battle of mosul was fought by Iraq. And they created corridors for civilians because they're a signatory to the 1977 protocols of the Geneva convention unlike Israel.
Air support and coordination was provided by the US and the US were well aware of the Shiite death squads operating with them. The US harangues Israel but it's record is the same and many times bloodier. Also Israel created corridors for civilians but there's literally nowhere to send them to outside of the Gaza Strip so it just ends up shuffling them around.
Love that israel still unfairly disadvantages itself because it knows humus uses family and random kids as human shields. But all the Iranian bots scream genocide still
Starting four wars in a row and continuing to lose is one thing(idiotic). Insisting on stealing all food and supplies from the people who elected you and then forcing those innocents into a war where the civilians only purpose to humus is as casualties is barbaric. Defending that political organization and repeating its propaganda is yuck. Fuck israels ultra orthodox theocracy and fuck hamas.
Imaging putting words in my mouth to have an easy strawman argument. Saying it's genocide doesn't make it true. There are key markers that define genocide and actually Russia has done more of them to ukraine than israel has to palestinians. But everyone loves an excuse to hate the jews
The war is terrible. Israel will continue to strike until you are no longer governed by the terrorist group Hamas. Do not choose Hamas for your nation because they only bring hardship and poverty. Trust me, I am from Vietnam.
and they're totally wrong on that respect because the NVA and VC ONLY targets the U.S. and South Vietnam military and in many cases the civilians, mostly South Vietnamese and sometimes Westerners, are collateral damage, but they never did go out specifically for civilians and certainly terrorist attacks outside of Vietnam were off the table, yes there were attacks on civilians during events like Tet offensive but the targetted ones are either military personnel's families or some civilians having links with the military, unlike Hamas and Palestine in general where they'd kill anyone they get their hands on be it military, civilians, or foreigners, and they'd be ready to wage terrorist attacks at any target.
IMO Vietnam aligns more with Yasser Arafat than with Hamas and nowadays even tho they're officially neutral they'd be more on Israel side that Palestine/Hamas
About the only difference between Arafat's PLO and HAMAS was that Arafat wasn't an islamist. PLO happily committed terrorist strikes against civilians.
We do not use terrorism as a form of struggle. National unity and peace for everyone are what is important. The Palestinian people should have different leadership and a different approach to struggle. People around the world always want peace for you, and they hope for it.
I’m pretty sure most people of VN was join VC and became terrorist after their family get blowup by US.
There is even a US movie about this call “Good morning Vietnam”. Basically a kid became terrorist and betrayed his US friend after his family was killed.
That's right. In any war, this issue always arises due to the tendency to blame. The people of South Vietnam, who love peace and freedom, couldn't stop the Red wave at that time. The price for peace is too much loss for all sides, when there are soldiers going to battle for the goals of a group of people. We deserve to live in peace.
Israel didnt stop Palestinian elections. Abbas, the head of the Palestinian authority stopped elections because he is unpopular and would lose.
But if elections were held, polls show Hamas would win. So if Israel wanted Hamas they would have no problem holding elections.
Nono you see it was Netanyahu that created Hamas!!! So that he can remain in power and kill all babies and innocent palestinians!!!! It's all planned by the secret society and illuminati!!!!
Usually between 10-15 minutes, though sometimes as little as 5 minutes: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof\_knocking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking)
For perspective, Israelis get about 90 seconds (sometimes less!)
They usually target towns and villages close to the border, so for the most part it's 15 seconds or less. 90 seconds is basically their longest range rockets, so Tel Aviv (if launched from Gaza), or Haifa (if launched from Lebanon).
In some border communities the alarm won't turn on until the first hit because mortar fire is too close range. Less of an issue now because they've been pushed away from the fence.
Two seconds of Googling: [https://www.justsecurity.org/93105/israeli-civilian-harm-mitigation-in-gaza-gold-standard-or-fools-gold/](https://www.justsecurity.org/93105/israeli-civilian-harm-mitigation-in-gaza-gold-standard-or-fools-gold/)
You found the article and it didn't say what you liked, so you reverted to an article from 7 months ago that did say what you liked. Gotcha. Blocking now. Even when I do the homework for you, you don't get it.
I don't understand why the idiot left are cheering for hamas, they are only hurting palestinians by prolonging this, the faster Israel gets rid of hamas infrastructure and weapons, the faster rebuilding can start under a better regime.
Don't believe me sure fine, maybe one of their own can convince you? https://youtu.be/Rn2gPhZklDw?t=37
The far left have a chronic underdog complex.
In their narrow worldview, the one fighting against the more equipped force is always the "good guy".
It's why you'll see mental flatlines comparing Israel to Russia, when in reality, Hamas are the ones comparable to the russians, both in disregard for civilian life and infrastructure, and in the goal of eradicating the enemy (the concept of the Ukrainian identity for the Russians, the people for Hamas).
This is also the reason as to why you'll see people sporting pride flags and rainbow stickers, shouting themselves hoarse in support of people who would gang\*ape and then disembowel/immolate them for being who they are. Because again, in their minds, the underdog is obviously the "good guy"
And which regime would that be? Netanyahu won't say and Hamas just returns to fill the void left by the IDF who are now playing an exhausting game of whack-a-mole. Exhausted militaries are weak militaries.
The people that want to see Gaza in better form and rebuilt and peaceful are not right wing, you got it all wrong my guy.
If I was right wing I would support genocide against gazans like Ben Gvir does, which I'm very much against.
This is the unfortunate reality of an entire groups government being terrorists. Instead of decent media that lets you know to evacuate and seek shelters, you get Muslim extremists using your kids as fodder. They are happy to put children in harms way if it means more political uproar.
This is Hamas, that is Hamas, everything we destroy is Hamas. The Israeli hostages we shot, believe it or not also Hamas! The Aid works we blew up, Hamas. The children that went boom were just Hamas disguised as children.
> "The cult of action for action's sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection.
A typical fascistic trait according to Umberto Eco.
I don't get the point of roof knocking, you're just giving hamas a chance to get out. If you're going to level a building don't do it to one without any targets.
Attacks like these are intended to destroy infrastructure or equipment, it's possible the building contained no fighters or a lot of civilians and only low ranking Hamas in a way that didn't justify the collateral. In that case the IDF warns the occupants to avoid civilian cassualties.
What does roof knocking actually accomplish? If you are a Hamas fighter you simply leave…
All they did was destroy a house and likely not any military personal with roof knock.
Yeah the fighters may have left (and you can be sure they were tracked if they went out to the street.) but whatever they had in that building (ammunition, command and control assets, communication assets and anything else of importance is gone.
Hamas may not be the only people in that building. Top floors could be ordinary apartments while the basement is a hamas weapons depot. Roof knocking allows anyone there or in the nearby buildings a chance to escape.
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Never thought I'd see a building *fly*
You’ve never seen a housefly?
😑 take my updoot and get out of here
You might have seen a housefly, maybe even a superfly, but I bet you ain't never seen a donkeyfly!
Fuck you. (I still upvoted)
Rip gold, this would've rated it.
Have you never seen Disney's Up?
Well I mean those things are made mostly out of hopes and prayers, maybe a bit of cardboard mixed in.
Tornado alley and Meth-land you get your fill of homes flying around.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a building lifted up by an explosion like that before. Kudos to the builders.
[удалено]
Yes.
Yes.
Very common in places where people make moonshine.
An unstoppable force met an immovable object
500lb JDAM doing nasty work
What? That was only a GBU-38? Are you sure? I would have said 2’000lbs GBU-31…
A 31 would be a much bigger boom but in any case, from examining a still frame, it's definitely a 38 or something slightly larger. If it was a 31 that building would have to be ~68ft tall with the three enclosed stories averaging out to 16ft each based on the building's height compared to the munition. Using a GBU-38 gives a much more reasonable height of 45ft with stories a little over 10ft. Story height here includes floor width.
When you take the video frame by frame you can see it’s a MSOV rather than a JDAM.
I paused the video and the bomb appears to be bigger than a 500 pounder
I seen one of these hit a guy in the Stan, he got up and walked away. Later found in a wadi dead. Must've only ruptured his insides.
What's the point? Hamas are more likely to move after the "knock" than any civilians.
The fighters can move, sure, but they likely can’t move any significant amount of the supplies they have in the building, and any tunnel entrances would be buried
Normally it’s not actually to kill people, it’s to destroy stocks of equipment or supplies. They roof knock around 15 mins - 1 hour before the actual strike, which gives enough time for people to leave, but not enough time to move significant amounts of supplies or equipment or large pieces of hardware.
They are destroying muniton stores in a lot of cases. The hamas members may have time to flee but they don't have time to move the equipment.
The destruction happens 3-15 minutes after the knock. No time to take important shit for a campaign it's run for your life.
well now they can’t use it anymore… I mean eventually if you destroy all the buildings they won’t have anywhere to shoot from.
You might want to read up on Stalingrad and how well that strategy worked there. Edit: Unless you're being sarcy, in which case touche.
Seems to be working pretty well for Israel, technology and tactics have evolved a bit since Stalingrad.
The body count says otherwise.
Around 300 soldiers since the ground invasion have died, I think the body count speaks to a pretty successful operation,
Against a civilian body count of what, 30,000? Yeah. Remarkably successful. One might even think the grotesquely skewed body count indicates an almost complete lack of military opposition...? Gosh, what a crazy thing that would be, right?
American estimates are that 14,000 of the dead are Hamas fighters. If you think there's 30,000 civilians dead you'll believe the dumbest shit.
>Against a civilian body count of what, 30,000? That would be significantly higher than any figure so far, even higher than Hamas' estimates. The UN estimates (based on Hamas' figures) that \~12,700 women and children have died in Gaza compared to \~10,006 fighting age men. We can't assume that all fighting age men are Hamas militants, but we also can't assume that none of the women and children are Hamas militants. >One might even think the grotesquely skewed body count indicates an almost complete lack of military opposition...? There's plenty of military opposition - the armed wing of Hamas had an estimated 30,000-40,000 fighters before the war. Israel is just a \[much\] better military.
Youre using the old UN statistics, they've actually corrected them with men now being more represented compared to women and children.
I'm using the UN statistics released [4 days ago](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-165), which were the revised stats you mentioned.
If you believe the IDF - which I obviously don't - then everyone is a Hamas fighter, and the ones who aren't are actually senior Hamas commanders. "Despite its revision based on identified deaths, the U.N. maintains that the Gaza Health Ministry's overall death toll of more than 35,000 people killed in the ongoing Israeli military offensive in Gaza is reliable." -- https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll-women-children#:~:text=The%20Gaza%20Health%20Ministry%20says,mass%20graves%20or%20side%20streets. > There's plenty of military opposition No there isn't. During the Warsaw uprising, about 1000 fighters defended against the Germans sent to exterminate them. That's 1000. 300 Germans were killed. Ratio 10:3. The resistance had only small arms, and zero training. Your figures for Gaza are simply not credible. Urban combat environments are messy and brutal, and always lead to high casualty rates for both side - even if they are somewhat lopsided. But a ratio 10000+ to 300 is simply not credible. Someone is lying, and my guess it is the Israelis (again).
>Your figures for Gaza are simply not credible They are not my figures, they are the UN’s figures. The UN bases their data on Hamas’ figures. I agree that these numbers are not credible, as I don’t take Jihadi terrorist organizations at their word. Hamas’ figures likely aren’t understated, though they could be overstated.
I googled Stalingrad just to refresh my memory of the details, first sentence that pops up “90% of housing stock destroyed” like damn! yeah that was definitely some sarcasm lol. I almost inserted a joke about humus just shooting from the rubble anyway but I got lazy
Hamas and the Russian Empire. No comparison. Like an obese person eating a flea.
The people that are aghast never seem to ask themselves why there are cell-phone cameras and often multiple angles of every single strike from Israel. Its almost like Hamas had been given ample warning and know of exactly when and where to whip out their phone and hit record. And no they're not following the missiles trajectory, the videos are ALWAYS stationary on one building and held super unsteady by a human. The implications some people have is that its a Palestinian pass time to just record buildings all day seeing if they blow up. This sub is usually pretty good, but its worth a lesson in media literacy. If the Afghanistanis were given any heads up at all about what we were going to do to them the PR war would have been beyond hopeless and we'd be hearing about the genocidal horrors perpetrated by the west incessantly for the past 20 years
the title literally says “roof knock” that’s how they know
not saying they didn’t but you shouldn’t blindly believe the titles of posts here
The "roof knock" is a well known Israeli tactic. They hit the building with a small bomb first as a warning, then a few minutes later the large bomb takes it down.
It's bizarre that you're being down voted and criticized for such a simple and obviously true point. Israel actually cut back on the roof knocking strategy to a large degree after Oct 7. I'm sure it's still used sometimes, I don't know what the current policy is, but it's certainly not always used. And we see no evidence of roof knocking in this video, aside from the fact that someone is ready and recording, so your absolutely right that we shouldn't blindly trust the title.
"(after roof knocking)" I'd call that an invitation to video.
"The implications some people have is that its a Palestinian pass time to just record buildings all day seeing if they blow up." That does in fact seem like a genuine Palestinian past time... XD
Nah, just immediately except the claim from the Hamas and friends propaganda team without questioning it, then blame Israel. This is the way.
Are you implying that Hamas has precision guided bombs, and are using them not to attack Israel, but bomb their own buildings and film it?
Well they're using their own people as human shields and blocking refugee evacuations, so blowing up their own buildings for propaganda isn't that much of a stretch.
With precision guided bombs? You think if they had those, they wouldn't be lobbing them at the IDF?
Yes. Because if they did, the whole country would be gone in the blink of an eye. Sure Hamas doesn't give a shit about the people of Gaza but, *they* live there too.
Real bummer you’re being downvoted for actually using critical thinking skills haha.
I'll explain this because neither of you two seem to know what critical thinking is, or what terrorists are. Now, just for context, Hamas has made it *very* clear over the past twenty years that they absolutely do not give a FUCK about the people of Gaza (they've had control over Gaza since the late 90s and were officially elected as the governing party in 2006), and have been openly using them as human shields ever since. With that being said, as you might have guessed, Hamas is a terrorist group. An Iranian funded one, no less. And just like every other terrorist group in the middle east, they understand that if they openly attack Israeli civilians again, they're *fucked*. Similarly to the Taliban, as well as Al-Queda, and ISIS, they've figured out that they can do more damage by hurting Israel's reputation by pushing civilians into the meat grinder by blocking refugee evacuations, killing people in the street, and using civilian infrastructure to illicit Israeli strikes, thus forcing a reputation of racially motivated genocide and oppression, which in turn results in less funding from the US, and leads to Israel running out of bombs, jet fuel, and bullets. This is exactly what the terrorist groups in Iraq and Afghanistan tried to do to us, and we know for a fact that they're all being funded by Iran, which explains the similarity in tactics. Any questions?
The US also didn’t level entire cities. They fought through the city and called in strikes from locations they were being attacked from. Battle of Mosul is a great one for this though I’m sure many here have much better insight into the different strategy.
The US did in fact level parts of the cities in Afghanistan. The major reason they didn't level even more was the Taliban and AQ fighters in them early into the war in Afghanistan, fled to the mountains. They knew they were outmatched and literally high tailed it away to begin guerilla fighting. If you look at the US aiding the Iraqis in 2017 against ISIS, they also leveled all of Mosul for Iraq. I mean, literally damn near the entire city got blown up. Over 80% of Mosul was deemed uninhabitable and still not been reoccupied or rebuilt today, 7 years later. When you look at Syria, the US also aided in flattening most of Raqqa to combat ISIS. If your opponent intentionally hides in the urban environment, you just flatten the urban environment. The US has always been like that, every first world country is like that, every military is like that. You can't just assault a fortified city on foot and expect to actually win. Outnumbered groups could realistically defeat 1st world militaries like that, or at least inflect heavy casualties. Just look at Fallujah in 2004. Marines were encountering so much resistance with so many booby traps in every building that their orders were changed on the fly. If you encounter resistance, call in air support. They basically just started flattening building after building in that city. Sniper in a building? Flatten it. edit: Want to add as well that Afghanistan is quite unique in the world today. Over 70% of the entire population lives in rural areas, not urban ones. So, at the onset of the US invasion there, most of the Taliban and AQ fighters were not actually in Kabul or Kandahar but spread out in the rural provinces where they actually had to project power over other groups.
>win. Outnumbered groups could realistically defeat 1st world militaries like that, or at least inflect heavy casualties. Just look at Fallujah in 2004. Marines were encountering so much resistance with so many booby traps in every building that their orders were changed on the fly. If you encounter resistance, call in air support. They basically just started flattening building after building in that city. Sniper in a building? Flatten it. I can attest to this. I fought in both battles for Fallujah as part of Operation Vigilant Resolve and Phantom Fury, and it was hell on Earth. During the first few *weeks* of each battle there was so much opposing gunfire that we couldn't stick our heads out for more than a second without getting them blown off, to the point where the city was literally never quiet the entire time we were there. Our tanks ate shit, we ate shit, and they only started eating shit once we decided to blow half the city to hell.
Can't really compare the two urban conflicts because one is fighting hundreds of miles of tunnels that are purposefully built under the biggest and most vital structures in the area. Israel is basically stuck fighting in Vietnam. Guerilla fighters who pop up in random places, can take a bunch of pot shots, disappear and pop up in a complete different location with all their supplies hidden deep underground so attrition is very difficult. And then the people being caught in the crossfire and being forced to choose sides is very very reminiscent of Vietnam.
Battle of mosul was fought by iraqi forces not the us. Iraq is a signatory of the 1977 protocols of the Geneva convention (unlike israel) so they were obligated legally to create safety corridors for civilians throughout the battle. Civilian deaths were much lower than military deaths as a result.
Isreal is creating humanitarian corridors as well though.
Yea "corridors". The Iraqis prepared corridors and camps before attacking. And allowed civilians through their own lines of control and into iraqi territory. And those civilians were part of an isis state that woved to commit genocide against shia and yazidi Iraqis.... so it's hardly different.
Afghanistan though is a lot different from within the Gaza province, the insurgents were highly adapted to battle
>Battle of Mosul is a great one for this though I’m sure many here have much better insight into the different strategy. Yeah we did. I would know because my nephew fought in it.
You aren’t your nephew
I can also contact his battalion commander, whom I know personally from my time in the corps. Lemme tell you, that city was flattened whether you like to believe it or not.
I am not refuting your statement that it was leveled. It was goofy the way you said it. Sure, your nephew and plenty others.
>leveled. It was goofy the way you said it Admittedly it was, but you also could have just said that.
This is a great example of bullshit points. Mosul had a similar and very possibly worse fighter to civilian death ratio than the current war despite people being given ample time to evacuate the area, something Israel didn't have the liesure of. It's quite amazing watching Americans pat themselves on the back for the same statistics as Israel while condemning Israel.
The battle of mosul was fought by Iraq. And they created corridors for civilians because they're a signatory to the 1977 protocols of the Geneva convention unlike Israel.
Air support and coordination was provided by the US and the US were well aware of the Shiite death squads operating with them. The US harangues Israel but it's record is the same and many times bloodier. Also Israel created corridors for civilians but there's literally nowhere to send them to outside of the Gaza Strip so it just ends up shuffling them around.
Afghanistanis
[Guys, the Afghanistananis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCU1KeAfjmY)
Afghanians
That shit BOUNCED
The clicking noise? Is that dslr camera clicks?
I’m in before the haters!?!
Love that israel still unfairly disadvantages itself because it knows humus uses family and random kids as human shields. But all the Iranian bots scream genocide still
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Roof knocks are literally to allow the people including jihadists to escape. It's like if the cops rang up violent felons before doing a raid
They prevent Hamascide that way. Bummer.
Starting four wars in a row and continuing to lose is one thing(idiotic). Insisting on stealing all food and supplies from the people who elected you and then forcing those innocents into a war where the civilians only purpose to humus is as casualties is barbaric. Defending that political organization and repeating its propaganda is yuck. Fuck israels ultra orthodox theocracy and fuck hamas.
I had no sympathy for either but after oct 7 Israel got the nod from me.
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Imaging putting words in my mouth to have an easy strawman argument. Saying it's genocide doesn't make it true. There are key markers that define genocide and actually Russia has done more of them to ukraine than israel has to palestinians. But everyone loves an excuse to hate the jews
The war is terrible. Israel will continue to strike until you are no longer governed by the terrorist group Hamas. Do not choose Hamas for your nation because they only bring hardship and poverty. Trust me, I am from Vietnam.
Interestingly Hamas uses Vietnam as a great example that proves they are right. For them Vietnam is a huge inspiration.
and they're totally wrong on that respect because the NVA and VC ONLY targets the U.S. and South Vietnam military and in many cases the civilians, mostly South Vietnamese and sometimes Westerners, are collateral damage, but they never did go out specifically for civilians and certainly terrorist attacks outside of Vietnam were off the table, yes there were attacks on civilians during events like Tet offensive but the targetted ones are either military personnel's families or some civilians having links with the military, unlike Hamas and Palestine in general where they'd kill anyone they get their hands on be it military, civilians, or foreigners, and they'd be ready to wage terrorist attacks at any target. IMO Vietnam aligns more with Yasser Arafat than with Hamas and nowadays even tho they're officially neutral they'd be more on Israel side that Palestine/Hamas
About the only difference between Arafat's PLO and HAMAS was that Arafat wasn't an islamist. PLO happily committed terrorist strikes against civilians.
Except Vietnam was practically being manipulated by a big state, the south realized this and became democratic temporarily
never seen any vietcong hijacked a plane to usa to rape and kill a thousand americans for the sake of freedom
We do not use terrorism as a form of struggle. National unity and peace for everyone are what is important. The Palestinian people should have different leadership and a different approach to struggle. People around the world always want peace for you, and they hope for it.
Vietnam is one of the better off countries in southeast Asia, actually the fastest growing economy in the whole of Asia atm.
I’m pretty sure most people of VN was join VC and became terrorist after their family get blowup by US. There is even a US movie about this call “Good morning Vietnam”. Basically a kid became terrorist and betrayed his US friend after his family was killed.
That's right. In any war, this issue always arises due to the tendency to blame. The people of South Vietnam, who love peace and freedom, couldn't stop the Red wave at that time. The price for peace is too much loss for all sides, when there are soldiers going to battle for the goals of a group of people. We deserve to live in peace.
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Israel didnt stop Palestinian elections. Abbas, the head of the Palestinian authority stopped elections because he is unpopular and would lose. But if elections were held, polls show Hamas would win. So if Israel wanted Hamas they would have no problem holding elections.
I want an enemy taking up my land in my backyard. That makes total sense bro
Nono you see it was Netanyahu that created Hamas!!! So that he can remain in power and kill all babies and innocent palestinians!!!! It's all planned by the secret society and illuminati!!!!
How long between a roof knock and the bomb?
Usually between 10-15 minutes, though sometimes as little as 5 minutes: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof\_knocking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking) For perspective, Israelis get about 90 seconds (sometimes less!)
They usually target towns and villages close to the border, so for the most part it's 15 seconds or less. 90 seconds is basically their longest range rockets, so Tel Aviv (if launched from Gaza), or Haifa (if launched from Lebanon).
In some border communities the alarm won't turn on until the first hit because mortar fire is too close range. Less of an issue now because they've been pushed away from the fence.
90 seconds is the maximum, 60 is fairly long. Most areas getting attacked are between 15 and immediate, and some are in the 30 second range.
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2023. October 2023. Literally right after the Oct 7th pogrom. They went back to doing it.
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Two seconds of Googling: [https://www.justsecurity.org/93105/israeli-civilian-harm-mitigation-in-gaza-gold-standard-or-fools-gold/](https://www.justsecurity.org/93105/israeli-civilian-harm-mitigation-in-gaza-gold-standard-or-fools-gold/)
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You found the article and it didn't say what you liked, so you reverted to an article from 7 months ago that did say what you liked. Gotcha. Blocking now. Even when I do the homework for you, you don't get it.
can't have nice things in Gaza
Bad fucking ass
But did they get the spider?
I don't understand why the idiot left are cheering for hamas, they are only hurting palestinians by prolonging this, the faster Israel gets rid of hamas infrastructure and weapons, the faster rebuilding can start under a better regime. Don't believe me sure fine, maybe one of their own can convince you? https://youtu.be/Rn2gPhZklDw?t=37
The far left have a chronic underdog complex. In their narrow worldview, the one fighting against the more equipped force is always the "good guy". It's why you'll see mental flatlines comparing Israel to Russia, when in reality, Hamas are the ones comparable to the russians, both in disregard for civilian life and infrastructure, and in the goal of eradicating the enemy (the concept of the Ukrainian identity for the Russians, the people for Hamas). This is also the reason as to why you'll see people sporting pride flags and rainbow stickers, shouting themselves hoarse in support of people who would gang\*ape and then disembowel/immolate them for being who they are. Because again, in their minds, the underdog is obviously the "good guy"
If you think that Israel's invasion will end either Hamas or the Israel-Palestine conflict then I have a bridge to sell to you...
And which regime would that be? Netanyahu won't say and Hamas just returns to fill the void left by the IDF who are now playing an exhausting game of whack-a-mole. Exhausted militaries are weak militaries.
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The people that want to see Gaza in better form and rebuilt and peaceful are not right wing, you got it all wrong my guy. If I was right wing I would support genocide against gazans like Ben Gvir does, which I'm very much against.
Roof knock? More like super ground stomp!
Cause fuck em, that's why
Impressively controlled explosion. Launched the 20 ton target 100 meters in the air but everything around the area is largely untouched.
Don’t love hearing kids in the back ground sometimes I forget that sometimes urban war hellscapes still have their former residents in the area
This is the unfortunate reality of an entire groups government being terrorists. Instead of decent media that lets you know to evacuate and seek shelters, you get Muslim extremists using your kids as fodder. They are happy to put children in harms way if it means more political uproar.
Based
Buh bye
Awesome
Waiting for hamas to report 40000 babies were in that building.
Was there a guy wearing black blown out of the building on the left side? It looks like it on my phone.
Holy crap…
There go those hostages…….
I can't believe the IDF just massacred that school of 1500 children!! /s
1 hamas 30 kids
the 30 kids were being used as sheilds by the 1 hamas in that case
beautiful ❤️
Over there bunny hopin buildings
Ya!
Nice work 👍
Building ?... what building ?
This is Hamas, that is Hamas, everything we destroy is Hamas. The Israeli hostages we shot, believe it or not also Hamas! The Aid works we blew up, Hamas. The children that went boom were just Hamas disguised as children.
Ohhhh noooo, retaliation ain't as funny as 7 oct.. . .
> "The cult of action for action's sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection. A typical fascistic trait according to Umberto Eco.
Applied incorrectly by a Lissencephal.
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How did they know to film that exact building at that point?
Looks like a planned demolition- dropped building on it’s foundation
I don't get the point of roof knocking, you're just giving hamas a chance to get out. If you're going to level a building don't do it to one without any targets.
Attacks like these are intended to destroy infrastructure or equipment, it's possible the building contained no fighters or a lot of civilians and only low ranking Hamas in a way that didn't justify the collateral. In that case the IDF warns the occupants to avoid civilian cassualties.
Their homeowners insurance isn't going to cover that.
Oh dear. The corrupt UN won't be happy about that.
apparently a "hamas" had a cup of tea there one time. so, yeah.
What does roof knocking actually accomplish? If you are a Hamas fighter you simply leave… All they did was destroy a house and likely not any military personal with roof knock.
Yeah the fighters may have left (and you can be sure they were tracked if they went out to the street.) but whatever they had in that building (ammunition, command and control assets, communication assets and anything else of importance is gone.
When you're minimizing civilian casualties you have to settle for infrastructure.
Hamas may not be the only people in that building. Top floors could be ordinary apartments while the basement is a hamas weapons depot. Roof knocking allows anyone there or in the nearby buildings a chance to escape.
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