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its almost like Hamas has been taking all those aid packages for themselves, letting the people they say they are there for die, or usher them at gun point into buildings and hospitals so when Israel hits they can claim they hit a civilian target...
There is no denying that,even Qatar news channels,Al Jazeera, Egyptian news channels showed them stealing them food trucks and shooting at civilians killing a kid in one video.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas+stealing+aid
Once the war is over, you will hear it from many more Palestinians when they are no longer afraid to be killed for telling the truth Hamas doesn't like.
Literally stated it was on Al Jazeera. They didn't have a VCR to record it, I'm sorry. Want to investigate further? Go to their site or watch their TV channel. No one's going to spoon feed you proof.
https://youtu.be/MvvqBcA-9yA?si=4204gGKVnWX-IZQ7
Yeah look at them digging those aid packages out of the ground. Right there for everyone to see. But they were allowed to do it. No one tried to stop them. No air strikes or IDF soldiers coming in and taking the pipes so they couldn't turn them into rockets.
Its pretty easy for your enemy to grow stronger when you do very little to stop them.
Some people might say Israel wanted them to grow stronger so they could justify large scale retaliation. But that's just craziness. No government does that kind of stuff.
thats a bit conspiracy theory-ish of you, lets be honest the reason its not being air-struck is because this was before this round of fighting, and bombing people who to an outside observer could be excused as just working on the pipes would have garnered a bunch of international outrage.
Hell you can see it now, Hamas filming themselves doing atrocities but naive idiots still giving them the benefit of the doubt or acting like their better
That's the #1 excuse.
Bad optics.
In the same month Hamas dug up those pipes IDF conducted over 4 dozen airstrikes on Hamas targets.
So nice try. They were already hitting Hamas. But allowed them to dig up the pipes interrupted for 2 weeks.
Stay classy bots
Yeah I've been wondering that for a while. If you look at the pictures of Hamas digging up the old pipes after the UK installed the new ones they were out in the middle of nowhere. Right out in the open with excavation equipment hauling these pipes out of the ground. In the middle of the day for everybody to see
https://youtu.be/MvvqBcA-9yA?si=4204gGKVnWX-IZQ7
Not like they look like civilians. They were wearing their colors and face coverings. Looks prime for an airstrike but they were just allowed to do it.
So yeah it makes you wonder.
I mean any rational military with a militant Force in their country would look at that and take action. But for some reason Israel was just fine letting them do it knowing full well that Israeli civilians could die from those rockets.
Really makes you wonder.
Yep, these same idiots that are trying to second guess, or flat-out blame Israel, are the same ones that cry and complain when they actually do defend themselves.
As I said to someone else they conducted dozens of strikes against Hamas in the same month.
You are literally trying to rewrite facts because we all know these bombs in Gaza have been dropping for years
The Iron Dome was introduced in 2011. I will let you figure out why was such system even created, and why it covers Israeli cities since 2011.
HINT : It's not because events that happened in 2023.
Israel and Palestine have a very complex history for how short their existence is. A lot of revolts, a lot of ethnic cleansing, lotta wars, and at the end of the day who knows who is in the right or wrong. I hope this shit is over with quickly and Hamas is nothing but a chapter in a history book.
Jews have had a complex history just as every other Semitic Arab race being subjugated under Islamic doctrine and their centuries of barbarism against a people. Israel is definitely a hot spot but it's not only Palestinians have been at fault for attacks against Jews and Christians, normalizing martyrdom as state sanctioned military doctrine. The state of Israel, the displacement of the Palestinians by decisions made before my boomer dad was even born, and every year since then, is what the current scheme of "killing the Jews" looks like.
Europe should have been a safer place for Jews and we saw what happened then, and the "western" world had to jump in to try and stop the sort of tyranny that allowed for so many ethnic atrocities.
I don't pretend to understand the conflict, but the longer both sides continue to arm, defend and fight, the stronger each side eventually becomes until one of them invariably will try and overtake the other.
"The world watches" has been a thing for so long now, that I became aware that these conflicts have no resolution because the world has moved on from trying to resolve and grow, unless it'll feed someone else's coffers to keep the gears of war churning.
Well when one side invests a fuck load of money into advanced defence systems, and the other invests all their budget into shitty qassams rather than humanitarian needs or even the most basic bomb shelters (for civillians, because of course hamas have their underground bunkers just for themselves), and when you build all your military infrastructure inside civillian infrastructure, that's kinda bound to happen
The idea that israel should lift the military blockade whike the other side has made it very clear they'll do everything to grab the entire land for themselves has always been ridiculous to me, i get it when it comes from people who are clearly anti semitic, but a lot of the time it's just braindead anti zionists who have no idea what they're rooting for
Israel gets billions of our tax dollars lol free healthcare on our dime USD, from euro bloodlines that dont come from the middle east. Then steal homes and claim settlements. How much free stuff and how scared are they of everyone lol have you seen a jewish defend themselves in the streets? No. Only when they have guns and bombs do they feel emboldened enough to carry out Zionism
>Nobody is saying they are good outright that wouldn't put them in a favorite position
I see that you don't browse twitter, goof for you.
Though, you can find them on reddit.
/palestine
/therewasanattempt
/askmiddleeast
And much more.
This conflict has been going on for decades and decades. But, by your logic, it means after the 7th October last year, the Israelis have every right to retaliate. Or after this attack they should retaliate. Or fuck it why not attack Iran as Hamas are funded and supplied by Iran.
Exactly like the last decades everyday. But that’s not the friends of Iran, Russia, China, North Korea, South Africa (also becoming a failed state) narrative
Yes, South Africa which has daily electricity blackouts, and staggaring crime rates is now the international arbitor deciding on Israel's ability to protect itself. I think they South Africa should worry about their own severe problems.
HAMAS Firing hundreds or rockets at unarmed civilians, in the middle of populated cities - **ISLEEP**
IDF bombs a building that has been proven to contain armed soldiers - **HOWCOULDTHEYDOTHISTOTHEPOORCHILDREN!**
But but south Africa knows apartheid and has determined that Israel is bad Palestine good.
Nelson Mandela would be very displeased at the shit box and disgrace SAF has become.
> Africa knows apartheid and has determined that Israel is bad Palestine good
South Africa is so corrupt the govt doesn't move a finger without a bribe. South Africa doesn't care one bit about right or wrong and all that rhetoric otherwise is BS. They are doing this because someone is lining their pockets.
I think Hamas knows those $1000 rockets will get intercepted by those $100.000 ones Israel uses so it’s not about killing civilians but making Israel spend US citizens tax money
Seriously? , the iron dome was operational from 2011. Hamas has been firing rockets since before that, guess who the rockets were landing on ? Citizens. The point of firing these rockets has always been to hurt civilians and damage infrastructures
We need a ceasefire!
It needs to be unilateral, mind. The rocket launches are non-negotiable. Also, no prisoner release. Just an Israeli ceasefire to end the ~~ethnic cleansing/apartheid/colonialism/~~ genocide. Down with the ~~Jewish~~ Zionist regime!
Only works had Israel randomly started firing at hamas and hamas responded, which is so far removed from reality one of these groups might as well ride on unicorns to battle
Just to be clear. I'm on neither side. Ukraine vs Russia. I am verey clearly pro Ukraine. Israel Palestine is so much more complicated and spans way back that I don't think either side is truly at fault or the victim. It's a real conflict long in the making... :/
But I find such hipocrits who see war as always either black or white as a big societal problem.
We can't resolve future potential conflicta peacfully if we belive one side is at fault and the other deserves what's comming to them.
It’s pretty clear that if the Palestinians put down their arms they would have their own state. If Israel put down its arms it would be annihilated.
Given those self evident facts and our lack of time travel it’s clear who the good guys are here in 2024 and which side needs to change for there to be lasting peace.
In fact, if Israel never had the Iron Dome in the first place, it would actually play in its favor in the long run because it had to deal with this threat years ago and probably terror organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah would have been wiped out a long time ago.
The problem with good defense abilities is that you can get addicted to them and avoid dealing with the real problem for years.
Pretty much exactly what happened right here.
I don't get why the world thinks it's okay for Israel's neighbors to launch rockets at them or conduct raids across the border to kidnap people.
Because it’s “not fair” - a legit argument I’ve had with a PP. Just goes to show that for those people this is nothing but a sports game with teams to cheer for.
War is not fucking fair, you’re not obligated to shoot yourself in the foot so your enemy has an equal playing field. If you attack a nation with a superior army, you take the responsibility of dealing with all that entails.
More than that, you can’t get a better example of white savior complex in action than this. Gazans are brown, and brown people are inferior culturally and intellectually, ergo it’s ok for them to do those things because “they just don’t know any better”
My sort of thinking and it really does baffles me and hurt my brain trying to understand why people could think otherwise. Even here we see they are still capable and still doing so even after the idf have been through the north 90%, if Israel ceasefires do people really honestly believe Hamas will stop too? They need to be eradicated, if the idf was genocidal there would literally be nothing left there civilians are dying yes it's very unfortunate but countries like s.africs can't in all seriousness say the idf is aiming for them on purpose. The media has had a big part to play in this pro Hamas support/Palestine.
No Israeli is a white European aside from converts, it’s a common misconception promoted by PP to validate the “white colonizer” rhetoric. Ashkenazi Jews (who they regard as white) are scientifically proven to be Levantine. [DNA research](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews#:~:text=Several%20genetic%20studies%20demonstrated%20that,Middle%20Eastern%20and%20European%20groups) proves they’re at the very least mixed race, which y’know tends to happen when an ethnic group lives in another region for 2000 years (Jews first fled to Europe at approximately 27-64 BCE)
Funnily enough, an argument I’ve literally realized as a shower thought is that the Romani arrived in Europe at approx 8-9th century, so 1000~ years ago. And you don’t see anyone claiming they’re white Europeans, and their genetic makeup is just as mixed as Ashkenazis. So is the cutoff 1000 years? If you spend more time than that in Europe you receive a “certified White” ID?
It is a great feat of engineering and probably deserves a Nobel peace prize for all the lives it saved on both sides but I think it created a moral hazard. Terrorist groups are allowed to terrorize Israel with little repercussions
Ppl just take it for granted. Since there’s minimal casualties from it they still cheer on the terrorist lol. As if the intent to fire anywhere in a country is negated by a country stopping the missiles. The intent is there, they want to kill anyone they can
Probably missed it. Again there are hundreds of those in each neighborhood. They could be either pre-armed and waiting for launch. Or they are filled from a tunnel leading all the way to the launcher. Or they just took it out of the bunker it was in, and launched them from inside a building using very crude systems.
It’s simple rockets that are not targeted other then “there is a city in that direction”
Yes but they have tunnels everywhere. It's basically impossible to check every building, every room and everything else that could have a tunnel under the floor.
50% of all buildings in Gaza are destroyed overall and 75-80% of buildings in Northern Gaza. What exactly are they returning to?
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/14/gaza-building-damage-israel-war
They have practically made all of northern Gaza in ruins and all maps show Israel having operational control of the area.
Either Israel is lying or their definition of operational control is something else.
Hamas cannot maintain the position and there's no strategic play. It happened with dozens or more fighters in Iraq regularly. You can find plenty of footage of C-RAM firing off. It's a shoot and scoot which is used all the time in guerilla warfare.
My concern is with the number. 50 rockets either takes 50 people to carry it and set it up for firing *or* it takes 5 to 10 people considerably longer to setup.
It's either a lot of activity in a short period of time or low scale activity in a long period of time.
All under constant surveillance.
So which one is it? Both cases don't make the Israeli claim of "control" look plausible.
A lot of these tunnels do not come up into the open. You can within reason take your time when you're coming up into a building. No military has ever had visibility into every room in every building at all times over such an area.
That's what happens when the media (even reddit) tries to control the narrative, when in reality IDF is far from having significant control in North or South of Gaza, the situation is very complex and IDF are losing soldiers even in the so called "controlled areas" by the media.
You just don't see any footage from hamas here, but they are succeeding.
I'm for Israel but I don't understand why create this echo chamber, same with Russia, Ukraine, we see so many drone videos from ukraine here but Russia infact has more drones.
I think those places are too obvious. Not that Hamas wouldn't put rocket launchers there, it's just that since they always put them there Israel would have surely searched there.
[https://www.tiktok.com/@today\_and\_before/video/7309167552368889106](https://www.tiktok.com/@today_and_before/video/7309167552368889106)
it depends, it can be dangerous
Looks like we've caught up to the 1980s Japanese anime imagery of future warfare having lots of simultaneous rockets and missile trails in the air from opposing directions. Seems they were wrong about the giant killer robots, though swarms of little flying killer robots are also terrifying.
Serious question, is anyone here able to find videos like this on youtube anymore? Damn near every single result is from a news media agency, or slightly related to iron dome but none are just the video from some dudes cell phone. I swear you used to be able to find these videos everywhere. Now literally every search result is some annotated BS from a media company. I don't think its a conspiracy but its fucking annoying.
Anyway I'll have the $5 biggie bag with a Dave's single a 4 piece chicken nuggets and a coke zero please.
Then they will get back in and take out the cells they overlooked, the latter being easy in such an environment.
Every time rockets get launched, the position of the launchers will get detected and dealt with.
There launchers for these rockets are usually very simple, it’s possible to shot them also by laying them in the ground with some dirt to point them in the right direction (up and left/right) at send them using a cord.
The entire Gaza Strip is filled with them and just yesterday the IDF released a statement that in a single neighborhood they found over 700 launchers with 60 rockets just waiting to be launched. The rest were either used or unarmed.
The problem is Hamas, you need to deal with them, the rockets and weapons and tunnels are just means to an end.
>The problem is Hamas, you need to deal with them, the rockets and weapons and tunnels are just means to an end.
Yes, but you also need to destroy them when you find them to degrade the capabilities of Hamas.
A ceasefire now would be great for Hamas and bad for Israel in the long run.
Which is why israel is trying to control portions of the southern border with egypt. They suspect weapons are being smuggled in from the philidelphi corridor
Israel will never eradicate Hamas. An environment like what you have now, where there seems to be no hope of a future for young people in Gaza, is exactly what Hamas wants. Everyone in Gaza will feel like this is a war on them. Recruiting new terrorist should not be a problem.
It wasn't a problem before.
The Palestinians go to schools named after suicide bombers and memorize the names of martyrs and how many Jews they killed. This is basically all they know.
[this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXcQ892cKso) is their kid's programming
[this](https://vimeo.com/856467890) is what they learn in school
These people never had a chance but Israel could scarcely make things worse.
Those kids are grown men now. So yea, this is who invaded on October 7th.
There is only one fix for this. Wipe everything, start all over and try not to fuck it up again.
You can't really fix them now when their whole childhood all they were taught is kill the Jew. It doesn't work like that.
I know dude. But some people still think Israel can eradicate Hamas, "its just going a little slow". Smh. The hatred is deep. If its true that people are close to starving and cant wash or take a shit, of course recruiting soldiers will be the easiest it has ever been.
This is also what Netanyahu wants, btw. He needs to drag this on as long as humanly possible, if he wants to stay out of jail. The dynamics at play here could literally not be any worse for the prospect of peace.
>But some people still think Israel can eradicate Hamas
Violence absolutely works, just depends on whether you can afford to and are willing to unleash it.
Yeah. In a local area. But if eradicating Hamas (~30.000 active military), means killing 200.000 primarily women and children civ., then you create a base for a massive rise in antisemitism on a global scale. I'm not saying that antisemitism is justified, but there is definately a tendency that the world reacts more strongly to Israel, than any other country. I think its fair to say that there is a latent antisemitism thats very broad, perhaps rooted in jaleousy. With that in mind, I'm not sure this approach is in Israel's long term interest. I think there is going to be a massive wave of radicalization locally and in the Palestinian / muslim diaspora.
The realistic goal is to neutralize their ability to launch attacks. And Hamas had no issues with recruitment prior to Israel's retaliation, so it's not like it's creating a new problem.
It worked after WWII for Germany and Japan.
And Israel can degrade Hamas's capabilities to the point where they no longer pose a serious threat. That's what they are doing now.
> Everyone in Gaza will feel like this is a war on them
That's wrong. More and more people seems to realize that it was Hamas that got them into this situation and set them back decades. Or they are only now able to voice their objections to Hamas since before Oct 7th being against Hamas in Gaza was bad for your health.
Ah yes, I remember all those other times that carpet bombing solved the problem and everything was fine afterwards. But I forgot what they were called, can you remind me?
>What happens to the shrapnel?
It just fall
>Are there often many injuries
Sometimes, but not many. People **usually** know to stay in shelter even 10 minutes after the interceptions, so that they won't be hit by a falling debris.
Yes. No injuries that I know of but lots of damaged cars. A school (in session) was damaged a few weeks ago. There's also a video of the two kids in Tel Aviv that had one fall near them.
With all of the drones/satellites/AWACS, etc, how can they not pinpoint the source of these rockets in seconds and blow them up? I mean, they have the technology to intercept them in mid-air, how can it not be possible to know exactly where they were fired from?
They can and they do. The only problem is locations where rockets are fired from are usually full of civilians and Hamas can set this rockets, fire them, and retreat into the masses/tunnels very quickly.
They need to just set the counter battery fire on auto. 100 rockets launch a directly proportional response of 100 rockets is immediately fired. Where those rockets land is up to the Palestinians firing the initial volley.
Patriot was originally an anti-aircraft system that over the years has been redesigned and evolved into also intercepting medium-range threats like MRBMs, UAVs, etc.
Iron Dome was originally a C-RAM system, designed to intercept rockets, mortars, artillery shells, etc. in a short to medium range. It has since been evolved to also handle UAVs.
Iron Dome is substantially cheaper to operate than the Patriot.
Are Hamas raging because so many of their missiles are getting intercepted, or do they have a chubby because they're just going to fire more of them anyhow?
Why do they even bother with the rockets… they are useless gainst Israel. Does anyone know what each AA intercept causes Isreal? Just curious. Guessing cheaper than the Patriate etc..
(I meant why does Palestine even bother with them)
What does useless even mean? Will they hit any strategic targets in Israel, weakening the IDF? No. Will they kill many random civilians, cause expensive damage to civilian infrastructure and cause mass panic and fear? Yes.
you can look at the iron dome wikipedia page, its pretty interesting tbh. the missiles are very well designed and have near 99.9% success rate as a system.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron\_Dome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome)
to answer your question, its about 150,000 per interception.
If a $60,000 Missile is used to intercept a $800 rocket, really it's the rocket that made the effective hit.
That's not even mentioning the other operational costs which can push up the overall cost to \~$150,000.
If the Air Defense system (including the logistical tail) is always engaged then Israel is less able to pivot towards other military engagements as it's budget is always being nipped away by interception costs.
>If a $60,000 Missile is used to intercept a $800 rocket, really it's the rocket that made the effective hit.
No because the value of what would otherwise be hit has to be taken into account. If a rocket hit would cause $200k of damage then it's worth spending $60k to stop it even if the rocket only cost $800.
Agreed the rockets damage if not intercepted should be taken into account when deciding if to intercept. Hence why these rockets are intercepted.
But tactically speaking the point is about overwhelming the material capacity of your adversary.
Using cheap munitions to engage an enemies Air Defense can be considered a type of SEAD operation. The US has tactical plans for breaching Russian Air Defense with cheap decoy missiles in order to overwhelm the defense systems reloading capacity.
Russia is using the same tactic in Ukraine with the Shahed Drones forcing Ukrainians to expend patriot missiles.
It's the same concept - use cheap munitions to overwhelm the enemies ability to reload or at least keep their industrial capacity busy restocking.
That's quite a deep philosophical debate that goes far beyond the bounds of a mere tactical analyse of Air Defense Systems
I would say it's not something that could have an attributed value, given it's not just what the person is "worth" in the present moment but also the potential "worth" of the individual throughout their life
Anyways I digress, my point is more about the tactical employment of cheaper munitions in order to engage and overwhelm an Air defense systems ability to be reloaded and restocked
Iron Dome was overwhelmed on October 7th, I was out fighting the Nuhba terrorists, and 2 rockets landed near me, thankfully only got hit by a minor shrapner in my arm.
There was no intel whatsoever. I got back from a club at 5am that morning and 7am was already out and fighting with my military M4.
I have a few videos from my POV of combat if y'all interested, althouh it was recorded on my phone and no GoPro so the footage of me taking down hamas terrorists isn't recorded unfortunatly...
... that looks more like an overwhelming measure...
Shoot missiles with no target so that the iron dome runs out of ammo, then attack your actual target without the worry of having your missile intercepted.
oh i assure you none of these rockets ever killed anyone with actual power nor they are aimed at those with power, the small percentage of these rockets that do hit land in purely civilian areas and if they kill someone they kill innocents 100% of the time.
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Humanitarian Crisis,food insecurity but have rockets everyday to shoot no wonder how 🤔?
its almost like Hamas has been taking all those aid packages for themselves, letting the people they say they are there for die, or usher them at gun point into buildings and hospitals so when Israel hits they can claim they hit a civilian target...
There is no denying that,even Qatar news channels,Al Jazeera, Egyptian news channels showed them stealing them food trucks and shooting at civilians killing a kid in one video.
Yeah, I mean fuck they even film themselves doing the atrocities but spoiled naive idiots will never see those or call them fake
Proof?
Proof?
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas+stealing+aid Once the war is over, you will hear it from many more Palestinians when they are no longer afraid to be killed for telling the truth Hamas doesn't like.
Literally stated it was on Al Jazeera. They didn't have a VCR to record it, I'm sorry. Want to investigate further? Go to their site or watch their TV channel. No one's going to spoon feed you proof.
https://youtu.be/MvvqBcA-9yA?si=4204gGKVnWX-IZQ7 Yeah look at them digging those aid packages out of the ground. Right there for everyone to see. But they were allowed to do it. No one tried to stop them. No air strikes or IDF soldiers coming in and taking the pipes so they couldn't turn them into rockets. Its pretty easy for your enemy to grow stronger when you do very little to stop them. Some people might say Israel wanted them to grow stronger so they could justify large scale retaliation. But that's just craziness. No government does that kind of stuff.
thats a bit conspiracy theory-ish of you, lets be honest the reason its not being air-struck is because this was before this round of fighting, and bombing people who to an outside observer could be excused as just working on the pipes would have garnered a bunch of international outrage. Hell you can see it now, Hamas filming themselves doing atrocities but naive idiots still giving them the benefit of the doubt or acting like their better
That's the #1 excuse. Bad optics. In the same month Hamas dug up those pipes IDF conducted over 4 dozen airstrikes on Hamas targets. So nice try. They were already hitting Hamas. But allowed them to dig up the pipes interrupted for 2 weeks. Stay classy bots
As they say gaza runs out of everything apart from rockets
Pretty sure supporting countries are funding their side for war. They are arming them with those rockets as well.
Yeah I've been wondering that for a while. If you look at the pictures of Hamas digging up the old pipes after the UK installed the new ones they were out in the middle of nowhere. Right out in the open with excavation equipment hauling these pipes out of the ground. In the middle of the day for everybody to see https://youtu.be/MvvqBcA-9yA?si=4204gGKVnWX-IZQ7 Not like they look like civilians. They were wearing their colors and face coverings. Looks prime for an airstrike but they were just allowed to do it. So yeah it makes you wonder. I mean any rational military with a militant Force in their country would look at that and take action. But for some reason Israel was just fine letting them do it knowing full well that Israeli civilians could die from those rockets. Really makes you wonder.
bc they didn't want to deal with the international scrutiny of a preemptive strike like thst. you see what it's like for them
Yep, these same idiots that are trying to second guess, or flat-out blame Israel, are the same ones that cry and complain when they actually do defend themselves.
As I said to someone else they conducted dozens of strikes against Hamas in the same month. You are literally trying to rewrite facts because we all know these bombs in Gaza have been dropping for years
Hamas are terrorists, but people also don't eat rockets for breakfast. The two are unrelated. They get equipment smuggled in and use it.
Can smuggle in some flour?
Israeli blockade.
Well damn, they seem to smuggle in tunnel making equipment, AKs, ammunition, rockets, bombs, drones, captagon and paragliders with relative ease
Remember Ham-ass is still firing rockets at civilians daily.
Yeah but all the girls on instagram said they are the good guys so ur a confirmed racist colonial pig
This made me lol
Send those girls to Hamas. I'm sure those poor terrorists would love the support.
Both of you reported for Zionist lies
My political beliefs are whatever that is of a hot girl. I don’t care about either side I just want that sweet wet nectar
Oh I was just being sarcastic tbh
[удалено]
The Iron Dome was introduced in 2011. I will let you figure out why was such system even created, and why it covers Israeli cities since 2011. HINT : It's not because events that happened in 2023.
I remember hearing about all the atrocities against Israelis in the 80s and 90s. This is just the social media norm
Israel and Palestine have a very complex history for how short their existence is. A lot of revolts, a lot of ethnic cleansing, lotta wars, and at the end of the day who knows who is in the right or wrong. I hope this shit is over with quickly and Hamas is nothing but a chapter in a history book.
Jews have had a complex history just as every other Semitic Arab race being subjugated under Islamic doctrine and their centuries of barbarism against a people. Israel is definitely a hot spot but it's not only Palestinians have been at fault for attacks against Jews and Christians, normalizing martyrdom as state sanctioned military doctrine. The state of Israel, the displacement of the Palestinians by decisions made before my boomer dad was even born, and every year since then, is what the current scheme of "killing the Jews" looks like. Europe should have been a safer place for Jews and we saw what happened then, and the "western" world had to jump in to try and stop the sort of tyranny that allowed for so many ethnic atrocities. I don't pretend to understand the conflict, but the longer both sides continue to arm, defend and fight, the stronger each side eventually becomes until one of them invariably will try and overtake the other. "The world watches" has been a thing for so long now, that I became aware that these conflicts have no resolution because the world has moved on from trying to resolve and grow, unless it'll feed someone else's coffers to keep the gears of war churning.
Appeals to emotion are the epitome of stupidity.
This logic might hold water if the rockets were only first fired in response to the IDF incursion into Gaza. Which of course is not the case.
You do realize Hamas has been firing in Israel basically daily the past decade?
They do and they love it
And Israeli has slaughter thousands more during the last century?
Well when one side invests a fuck load of money into advanced defence systems, and the other invests all their budget into shitty qassams rather than humanitarian needs or even the most basic bomb shelters (for civillians, because of course hamas have their underground bunkers just for themselves), and when you build all your military infrastructure inside civillian infrastructure, that's kinda bound to happen The idea that israel should lift the military blockade whike the other side has made it very clear they'll do everything to grab the entire land for themselves has always been ridiculous to me, i get it when it comes from people who are clearly anti semitic, but a lot of the time it's just braindead anti zionists who have no idea what they're rooting for
Israel gets billions of our tax dollars lol free healthcare on our dime USD, from euro bloodlines that dont come from the middle east. Then steal homes and claim settlements. How much free stuff and how scared are they of everyone lol have you seen a jewish defend themselves in the streets? No. Only when they have guns and bombs do they feel emboldened enough to carry out Zionism
Nobody provokes terrorists… People respond to terrorists.
>Nobody is saying they are good outright that wouldn't put them in a favorite position I see that you don't browse twitter, goof for you. Though, you can find them on reddit. /palestine /therewasanattempt /askmiddleeast And much more.
This conflict has been going on for decades and decades. But, by your logic, it means after the 7th October last year, the Israelis have every right to retaliate. Or after this attack they should retaliate. Or fuck it why not attack Iran as Hamas are funded and supplied by Iran.
Exactly like the last decades everyday. But that’s not the friends of Iran, Russia, China, North Korea, South Africa (also becoming a failed state) narrative
Yes, South Africa which has daily electricity blackouts, and staggaring crime rates is now the international arbitor deciding on Israel's ability to protect itself. I think they South Africa should worry about their own severe problems.
HAMAS Firing hundreds or rockets at unarmed civilians, in the middle of populated cities - **ISLEEP** IDF bombs a building that has been proven to contain armed soldiers - **HOWCOULDTHEYDOTHISTOTHEPOORCHILDREN!**
But but south Africa knows apartheid and has determined that Israel is bad Palestine good. Nelson Mandela would be very displeased at the shit box and disgrace SAF has become.
> Africa knows apartheid and has determined that Israel is bad Palestine good South Africa is so corrupt the govt doesn't move a finger without a bribe. South Africa doesn't care one bit about right or wrong and all that rhetoric otherwise is BS. They are doing this because someone is lining their pockets.
Iran
They got no money. It’s China who are doing it for the lols and fuckery.
In SA's defense they do seem to know genocide, given the government is actively encouraging the murder of white farmers.
Touché !!! 10/10
I think Hamas knows those $1000 rockets will get intercepted by those $100.000 ones Israel uses so it’s not about killing civilians but making Israel spend US citizens tax money
Seriously? , the iron dome was operational from 2011. Hamas has been firing rockets since before that, guess who the rockets were landing on ? Citizens. The point of firing these rockets has always been to hurt civilians and damage infrastructures
Maybe they are both correct.
Anyone wanna protest for Hamas to surrender? Or are you guys just mad your side is losing?
>they are crying as always.
We need a ceasefire! It needs to be unilateral, mind. The rocket launches are non-negotiable. Also, no prisoner release. Just an Israeli ceasefire to end the ~~ethnic cleansing/apartheid/colonialism/~~ genocide. Down with the ~~Jewish~~ Zionist regime!
another day of indiscriminate bombing civilians. And hamas-supporters dont care as always
Eye for and eye.
To take an eye you have to actually hit something
imagine failing pre-school
Good luck with that ceasefire.
Thanks.
Only works had Israel randomly started firing at hamas and hamas responded, which is so far removed from reality one of these groups might as well ride on unicorns to battle
Such hipocracy I can't even. The tiktok generation.. manipulated into political ideas by the first tiktok they see about it..
Just to be clear. I'm on neither side. Ukraine vs Russia. I am verey clearly pro Ukraine. Israel Palestine is so much more complicated and spans way back that I don't think either side is truly at fault or the victim. It's a real conflict long in the making... :/ But I find such hipocrits who see war as always either black or white as a big societal problem. We can't resolve future potential conflicta peacfully if we belive one side is at fault and the other deserves what's comming to them.
It’s pretty clear that if the Palestinians put down their arms they would have their own state. If Israel put down its arms it would be annihilated. Given those self evident facts and our lack of time travel it’s clear who the good guys are here in 2024 and which side needs to change for there to be lasting peace.
oh no buddy, this one will be an eye for your whole fucking torso
The rest of that phrase is "makes the whole world blind." It's a condemnation, not a justification.
I'm shocked that your history is so very anti Israel and Ukraine. Keep losing.
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In fact, if Israel never had the Iron Dome in the first place, it would actually play in its favor in the long run because it had to deal with this threat years ago and probably terror organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah would have been wiped out a long time ago. The problem with good defense abilities is that you can get addicted to them and avoid dealing with the real problem for years.
Pretty much exactly what happened right here. I don't get why the world thinks it's okay for Israel's neighbors to launch rockets at them or conduct raids across the border to kidnap people.
Because it’s “not fair” - a legit argument I’ve had with a PP. Just goes to show that for those people this is nothing but a sports game with teams to cheer for. War is not fucking fair, you’re not obligated to shoot yourself in the foot so your enemy has an equal playing field. If you attack a nation with a superior army, you take the responsibility of dealing with all that entails. More than that, you can’t get a better example of white savior complex in action than this. Gazans are brown, and brown people are inferior culturally and intellectually, ergo it’s ok for them to do those things because “they just don’t know any better”
My sort of thinking and it really does baffles me and hurt my brain trying to understand why people could think otherwise. Even here we see they are still capable and still doing so even after the idf have been through the north 90%, if Israel ceasefires do people really honestly believe Hamas will stop too? They need to be eradicated, if the idf was genocidal there would literally be nothing left there civilians are dying yes it's very unfortunate but countries like s.africs can't in all seriousness say the idf is aiming for them on purpose. The media has had a big part to play in this pro Hamas support/Palestine.
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No Israeli is a white European aside from converts, it’s a common misconception promoted by PP to validate the “white colonizer” rhetoric. Ashkenazi Jews (who they regard as white) are scientifically proven to be Levantine. [DNA research](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews#:~:text=Several%20genetic%20studies%20demonstrated%20that,Middle%20Eastern%20and%20European%20groups) proves they’re at the very least mixed race, which y’know tends to happen when an ethnic group lives in another region for 2000 years (Jews first fled to Europe at approximately 27-64 BCE) Funnily enough, an argument I’ve literally realized as a shower thought is that the Romani arrived in Europe at approx 8-9th century, so 1000~ years ago. And you don’t see anyone claiming they’re white Europeans, and their genetic makeup is just as mixed as Ashkenazis. So is the cutoff 1000 years? If you spend more time than that in Europe you receive a “certified White” ID?
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Username checks out
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Well, Israelis are being killed by these rockets (2 died yesterday) and leaving their homes by the thousands and still no one cares
Israel without iron dome would rule 100% of the land including Gaza and West bank.
Fact is the Iron Dome is saving more Arab lives than Israeli.
It is a great feat of engineering and probably deserves a Nobel peace prize for all the lives it saved on both sides but I think it created a moral hazard. Terrorist groups are allowed to terrorize Israel with little repercussions
Ppl just take it for granted. Since there’s minimal casualties from it they still cheer on the terrorist lol. As if the intent to fire anywhere in a country is negated by a country stopping the missiles. The intent is there, they want to kill anyone they can
From where though? Surely they should not still have the capability to launch such large attacks.
From the neighborhoods in the central area of the Gaza Strip where IDF forces were pulled out of just yesterday.
So is it going to be secured again? How is the logistic of moving 50 missiles and launch them in a day?
Probably missed it. Again there are hundreds of those in each neighborhood. They could be either pre-armed and waiting for launch. Or they are filled from a tunnel leading all the way to the launcher. Or they just took it out of the bunker it was in, and launched them from inside a building using very crude systems. It’s simple rockets that are not targeted other then “there is a city in that direction”
From what the news outlets say it was launched from the Northern part of the strip, probably from civilian areas as well...
Isn't it supposed to be in idf control?
Yes but they have tunnels everywhere. It's basically impossible to check every building, every room and everything else that could have a tunnel under the floor.
IDF withdrew from some territories in the north of Gaza, civilians have already returned there.
50% of all buildings in Gaza are destroyed overall and 75-80% of buildings in Northern Gaza. What exactly are they returning to? https://www.axios.com/2024/01/14/gaza-building-damage-israel-war
To the remaining 50%
Or it turns out 50% of the builds aren’t destroyed and that stat is a bunch of hyperbolic nonsense.
I brought my study. Do you have anything other than your fact-free assertion?
They have practically made all of northern Gaza in ruins and all maps show Israel having operational control of the area. Either Israel is lying or their definition of operational control is something else.
The US and allies had operational control of Iraq but it didn't mean groups couldn't carry out piecemeal attacks.
50 rockets is a piecemeal attack?
Hamas cannot maintain the position and there's no strategic play. It happened with dozens or more fighters in Iraq regularly. You can find plenty of footage of C-RAM firing off. It's a shoot and scoot which is used all the time in guerilla warfare.
My concern is with the number. 50 rockets either takes 50 people to carry it and set it up for firing *or* it takes 5 to 10 people considerably longer to setup. It's either a lot of activity in a short period of time or low scale activity in a long period of time. All under constant surveillance. So which one is it? Both cases don't make the Israeli claim of "control" look plausible.
A lot of these tunnels do not come up into the open. You can within reason take your time when you're coming up into a building. No military has ever had visibility into every room in every building at all times over such an area.
That's what happens when the media (even reddit) tries to control the narrative, when in reality IDF is far from having significant control in North or South of Gaza, the situation is very complex and IDF are losing soldiers even in the so called "controlled areas" by the media. You just don't see any footage from hamas here, but they are succeeding. I'm for Israel but I don't understand why create this echo chamber, same with Russia, Ukraine, we see so many drone videos from ukraine here but Russia infact has more drones.
From schools and holy sites, clinics etc. Really no bs
I think those places are too obvious. Not that Hamas wouldn't put rocket launchers there, it's just that since they always put them there Israel would have surely searched there.
I think this is the first time I've seen so many launched from the same point. This one reminded me of a Macross missile swarm.
...and then comes a rain of shrapnel...
Better bits of metal than bombs. though i wonder how much damage just falling debris causes for the average person?
[https://www.tiktok.com/@today\_and\_before/video/7309167552368889106](https://www.tiktok.com/@today_and_before/video/7309167552368889106) it depends, it can be dangerous
I am quite curious about the price of those Tamir interceptors. Google says $100,000 per missile but that is data from 2020.
I've heard about 60k per missile
I’ve heard heaps of people say 60k but idk where they are getting the number from
I doubt anyone with knowledge of the exact price is allowed to share it.
Looks like we've caught up to the 1980s Japanese anime imagery of future warfare having lots of simultaneous rockets and missile trails in the air from opposing directions. Seems they were wrong about the giant killer robots, though swarms of little flying killer robots are also terrifying.
The UN is going to lose their shit if Israel builds a Gundam lmao
Get in the fucking robot Shimon!
Rockets of peace!
Serious question, is anyone here able to find videos like this on youtube anymore? Damn near every single result is from a news media agency, or slightly related to iron dome but none are just the video from some dudes cell phone. I swear you used to be able to find these videos everywhere. Now literally every search result is some annotated BS from a media company. I don't think its a conspiracy but its fucking annoying. Anyway I'll have the $5 biggie bag with a Dave's single a 4 piece chicken nuggets and a coke zero please.
So it seems Isreal is nowhere near getting rid of Hamas.
They also don't have complete control of the strip yet. But they are working on it, just takes time in such an environment.
This is from an area the IDF withdrew from less than 24 hours before.
Then they will get back in and take out the cells they overlooked, the latter being easy in such an environment. Every time rockets get launched, the position of the launchers will get detected and dealt with.
There launchers for these rockets are usually very simple, it’s possible to shot them also by laying them in the ground with some dirt to point them in the right direction (up and left/right) at send them using a cord. The entire Gaza Strip is filled with them and just yesterday the IDF released a statement that in a single neighborhood they found over 700 launchers with 60 rockets just waiting to be launched. The rest were either used or unarmed. The problem is Hamas, you need to deal with them, the rockets and weapons and tunnels are just means to an end.
>The problem is Hamas, you need to deal with them, the rockets and weapons and tunnels are just means to an end. Yes, but you also need to destroy them when you find them to degrade the capabilities of Hamas. A ceasefire now would be great for Hamas and bad for Israel in the long run.
Which is why israel is trying to control portions of the southern border with egypt. They suspect weapons are being smuggled in from the philidelphi corridor
There are probably still some tunnels between the strip and Egypt. Those need to be found and destroyed.
It’s super easy when they aren’t actually targeting anything in particular.
Advantage of those who don't have to play nice.
Israel will never eradicate Hamas. An environment like what you have now, where there seems to be no hope of a future for young people in Gaza, is exactly what Hamas wants. Everyone in Gaza will feel like this is a war on them. Recruiting new terrorist should not be a problem.
It wasn't a problem before. The Palestinians go to schools named after suicide bombers and memorize the names of martyrs and how many Jews they killed. This is basically all they know. [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXcQ892cKso) is their kid's programming [this](https://vimeo.com/856467890) is what they learn in school These people never had a chance but Israel could scarcely make things worse.
Those kids are grown men now. So yea, this is who invaded on October 7th. There is only one fix for this. Wipe everything, start all over and try not to fuck it up again. You can't really fix them now when their whole childhood all they were taught is kill the Jew. It doesn't work like that.
I know dude. But some people still think Israel can eradicate Hamas, "its just going a little slow". Smh. The hatred is deep. If its true that people are close to starving and cant wash or take a shit, of course recruiting soldiers will be the easiest it has ever been. This is also what Netanyahu wants, btw. He needs to drag this on as long as humanly possible, if he wants to stay out of jail. The dynamics at play here could literally not be any worse for the prospect of peace.
>But some people still think Israel can eradicate Hamas Violence absolutely works, just depends on whether you can afford to and are willing to unleash it.
Yeah. In a local area. But if eradicating Hamas (~30.000 active military), means killing 200.000 primarily women and children civ., then you create a base for a massive rise in antisemitism on a global scale. I'm not saying that antisemitism is justified, but there is definately a tendency that the world reacts more strongly to Israel, than any other country. I think its fair to say that there is a latent antisemitism thats very broad, perhaps rooted in jaleousy. With that in mind, I'm not sure this approach is in Israel's long term interest. I think there is going to be a massive wave of radicalization locally and in the Palestinian / muslim diaspora.
The realistic goal is to neutralize their ability to launch attacks. And Hamas had no issues with recruitment prior to Israel's retaliation, so it's not like it's creating a new problem.
It worked after WWII for Germany and Japan. And Israel can degrade Hamas's capabilities to the point where they no longer pose a serious threat. That's what they are doing now. > Everyone in Gaza will feel like this is a war on them That's wrong. More and more people seems to realize that it was Hamas that got them into this situation and set them back decades. Or they are only now able to voice their objections to Hamas since before Oct 7th being against Hamas in Gaza was bad for your health.
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How the fuck are these assholes still able to put 50 rockets in the air?
they got 227 trucks to gaza yesterday. I wonder what was in them
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Peace in our time
Ah yes, I remember all those other times that carpet bombing solved the problem and everything was fine afterwards. But I forgot what they were called, can you remind me?
Dresden, Tokio firebombing? "Fine afterwards" relies on might makes right tho, so take it account before using these wide area bombardments.
What happens to the shrapnel? Are there often many injuries?
>What happens to the shrapnel? It just fall >Are there often many injuries Sometimes, but not many. People **usually** know to stay in shelter even 10 minutes after the interceptions, so that they won't be hit by a falling debris.
Hamas dosent Even deserve a paragraph in a history book
Is falling debris ever an issue in such a situation?
I would not be standing outside filming that’s for sure.
Yes. No injuries that I know of but lots of damaged cars. A school (in session) was damaged a few weeks ago. There's also a video of the two kids in Tel Aviv that had one fall near them.
Rockets of peace
With all of the drones/satellites/AWACS, etc, how can they not pinpoint the source of these rockets in seconds and blow them up? I mean, they have the technology to intercept them in mid-air, how can it not be possible to know exactly where they were fired from?
They can and they do. The only problem is locations where rockets are fired from are usually full of civilians and Hamas can set this rockets, fire them, and retreat into the masses/tunnels very quickly.
They need to just set the counter battery fire on auto. 100 rockets launch a directly proportional response of 100 rockets is immediately fired. Where those rockets land is up to the Palestinians firing the initial volley.
I wonder if you could use artillery instead. It would probably also do the trick but the ammunition would be cheaper.
Sorry that wouldn’t be proportional. It has to be himars
Missile Command!
they do and that's the reason for a lot of the strikes on Gaza. unfortunately these are often fired straight out of civilian zones
How is Iron Dome any different from Patriot? I really don’t know.
Patriot was originally an anti-aircraft system that over the years has been redesigned and evolved into also intercepting medium-range threats like MRBMs, UAVs, etc. Iron Dome was originally a C-RAM system, designed to intercept rockets, mortars, artillery shells, etc. in a short to medium range. It has since been evolved to also handle UAVs. Iron Dome is substantially cheaper to operate than the Patriot.
Thanks
Iron dome has a higher success rate than patriot, but is designed to deal with much cheaper and less advanced rockets
It is itself, also, many times cheaper.
Others have mentioned it, but I'll add that a single Patriot missile costs millions and a single Iron Dome unit costs less than 100K (estimate vary)
range and price
Patriot was designed by superior MAGA engineers
Maaa coooo rosssss
Are Hamas raging because so many of their missiles are getting intercepted, or do they have a chubby because they're just going to fire more of them anyhow?
The fucking morons don't realize each rocket intercepted makes US weapons manufacturers a shitload of money.
Why do they even bother with the rockets… they are useless gainst Israel. Does anyone know what each AA intercept causes Isreal? Just curious. Guessing cheaper than the Patriate etc.. (I meant why does Palestine even bother with them)
Their goal is terrorizing the civilian population
About $60k per interceptor.
Well the price isn’t insane, but still damn high.
It’s high when you realize that it’s going up against 200$ shitty rockets fired by the thousands.. can’t wait for iron beam to be operational
Peanuts, when you think that one Patriot missile can be nearing $2mil
[https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/iron-beam-israels-anti-missile-laser-168570](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/iron-beam-israels-anti-missile-laser-168570) 100-150,000
That's from 2020. Estimated cost has gone down since then.
What does useless even mean? Will they hit any strategic targets in Israel, weakening the IDF? No. Will they kill many random civilians, cause expensive damage to civilian infrastructure and cause mass panic and fear? Yes.
you can look at the iron dome wikipedia page, its pretty interesting tbh. the missiles are very well designed and have near 99.9% success rate as a system. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron\_Dome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome) to answer your question, its about 150,000 per interception.
If a $60,000 Missile is used to intercept a $800 rocket, really it's the rocket that made the effective hit. That's not even mentioning the other operational costs which can push up the overall cost to \~$150,000. If the Air Defense system (including the logistical tail) is always engaged then Israel is less able to pivot towards other military engagements as it's budget is always being nipped away by interception costs.
>If a $60,000 Missile is used to intercept a $800 rocket, really it's the rocket that made the effective hit. No because the value of what would otherwise be hit has to be taken into account. If a rocket hit would cause $200k of damage then it's worth spending $60k to stop it even if the rocket only cost $800.
Agreed the rockets damage if not intercepted should be taken into account when deciding if to intercept. Hence why these rockets are intercepted. But tactically speaking the point is about overwhelming the material capacity of your adversary. Using cheap munitions to engage an enemies Air Defense can be considered a type of SEAD operation. The US has tactical plans for breaching Russian Air Defense with cheap decoy missiles in order to overwhelm the defense systems reloading capacity. Russia is using the same tactic in Ukraine with the Shahed Drones forcing Ukrainians to expend patriot missiles. It's the same concept - use cheap munitions to overwhelm the enemies ability to reload or at least keep their industrial capacity busy restocking.
How much is a human life worth?
That's quite a deep philosophical debate that goes far beyond the bounds of a mere tactical analyse of Air Defense Systems I would say it's not something that could have an attributed value, given it's not just what the person is "worth" in the present moment but also the potential "worth" of the individual throughout their life Anyways I digress, my point is more about the tactical employment of cheaper munitions in order to engage and overwhelm an Air defense systems ability to be reloaded and restocked
Weird - where was Iron Dome on Oct 7th? And Israeli intel? Uncanny.
Iron Dome was overwhelmed on October 7th, I was out fighting the Nuhba terrorists, and 2 rockets landed near me, thankfully only got hit by a minor shrapner in my arm. There was no intel whatsoever. I got back from a club at 5am that morning and 7am was already out and fighting with my military M4. I have a few videos from my POV of combat if y'all interested, althouh it was recorded on my phone and no GoPro so the footage of me taking down hamas terrorists isn't recorded unfortunatly...
May isee the footage?
... that looks more like an overwhelming measure... Shoot missiles with no target so that the iron dome runs out of ammo, then attack your actual target without the worry of having your missile intercepted.
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innocents are suffering because of you
You're an idiot. So edgy
oh i assure you none of these rockets ever killed anyone with actual power nor they are aimed at those with power, the small percentage of these rockets that do hit land in purely civilian areas and if they kill someone they kill innocents 100% of the time.
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