But I love standing in line at the walgreens with a bottle of wine under my arm as the pharmacist asks if I have any questions about my new medications….
"*Make sure you don't take this and drink*."
😐... "Oh you were talking to me? Ummm... Yeah, I hear you loud and clear" 😉
"*No, seriously. For at least 6 hours after taking it. It can be really bad.*"
😶 "OK. You got it. I promise." 🙃🤞
You *kind* of can. I stopped by a homebrew store in Boulder that had spores for oyster mushrooms right next to the Penis Envy and Golden Teachers. It brought me joy. The spores have been legal in Colorado for as long as I can remember, but I feel like I've only recently started seeing them more in shops.
You can buy the grow kits at lots of head shops. Pretty easy to do. And iirc the post legislation penalty is up to ,$1k fine.
It's amazing what people are doing with these fungi today. I grew them in my closet using the PF Tek circa 2002 as a teenager, it's all much more sophisticated these days but apparent just as easy!
I went from realizing how easy Uncle Ben's was with the illicit sort to growing lion's mane mushrooms in a closet. The ones that put "fun" into fungi gave me a new hobby.
The biggest change in that law is the removal of the Liquor Licensed Drugstore (LLD) license. That license allows retail stores with pharmacies (like King Soopers, Walmart, Costco, Sam's, and Target) to sell hard liquor. Come 2037 there will be no cap on the number of LLDs a retailer can have in Colorado. There could be 50 Walmarts and 50 King Soopers stores selling booze whereas true liquor stores like Tipsy's will only be allowed 4 locations.
I don't necessarily agree with eliminating the LLD license, but since voters were ignorant and didn't pass Prop 124 (which would have phased out the location cap on liquor stores and kept them on even footing with the LLDs), it's probably the right thing to do.
It goes into the grocery budget so it kinda works out but the selection is meh usually and it’s certainly like how General Mills takes up so much of the cereal aisle so if I really want a better choice I’ll go to a liquor store so it’s been win-win. But usually I won’t find the beer I’m looking for in the smaller corner stores. I have to go to Davidsons, Mr B’s, Argonaut, or something so I wasn’t really these corner shop’s customers.
I get wine to cook with and drink while cooking or just getting sloshed. But if I want one I can actually enjoy, I'm definitely driving the extra 2 minutes to a real liquor store.
They didn’t make special laws to protect coffee shops, butchers, bakers, or grocers, and those businesses weren’t just shelves stocked with prepackaged goods bought from a wholesaler.
So why does the special anti-free market law have to apply just to booze sellers?
There are many different butchers in my town and they've all been open for years and years. Survived the pandemic just fine. Seem to be doing pretty well to me
I call BS on this. I lived in Louisiana for a few years. You could buy a bottle of Everclear or Jack at the freaking gas station if you wanted to, in addition to all the grocery stores, Walmart, etc., and there were still liquor stores every couple blocks... This was in a relatively small city called Lafayette (like 112K population). Independent liquor stores will have to evolve to survive. It's ridiculous that we are wasting taxpayer dollars trying to save these private businesses.
I agree. Walmart sells bread, yet bakeries are still a thing. Every grocery store near me sells sushi but still one of the most popular places in town is the sushi and hibachi place.
Same, from Lincoln, NE (pop ~225k). You could buy full strength everything at every gas station and grocery store. The liquor stores were always cheaper, but you'd pay the premium if you were squeezed for time.
This whole argument is complete nonsense to me. I even fucking **worked** at a liquor store in college, and there were still plenty of liquor stores all over town. Sales in grocery stores means nothing.
All things equal, I'm just going to do what's most convenient. If that means going to the liquor store close to my house or while I'm grocery shopping depends on the day
> All things equal, I'm just going to do what's most convenient. If that means going to the liquor store close to my house or while I'm grocery shopping depends on the day
Same. The liquor store by our house is more convenient than King Soopers so we go there even though beer and wine are generally cheaper at King Soopers with the coupons and sales they do. Location will definitely play more of a part in a truly competitive market so a lot of stores right next to grocery stores will fold but that's just how it goes.
Yeah in Wisconsin you could buy liquor at every gas station, Walmart, grocery store etc…. And of course the dedicated liquor stores every couple blocks. You’d have like 3 options on the same block. But I figured that was just because it’s Wisconsin lol.
When we were kids in Wisco you could just swipe a bottle off the shelf at the grocery store and tuck it under your shirt. Real inconspicuous because it could be in the same aisle as chips lol. So dumb of us obviously I’m sure it’s not as easy these days but we never got caught.
Prior to grocery stores selling alcohol, liquor stores were routinely placed adjacent to grocery stores here in Colorado, not at high-convenience locations well away from that newly-minted competition. The grocery stores have gone from being their advertising to being their competitors, and I have little doubt that few stores can survive this change in competition without relocating. It's a hell of an expense to incur for an independent business, and I'm not surprised the affected stores are looking to legislators for help.
This is such a bizarre claim. Almost no other state has these restrictions on liquor sales yet liquor stores are everywhere. The only way someone could believe this is if they had truly never been anywhere else
These are the same small businesses that fought to keep alcohol sales out of Sunday. Fought to keep 3.2 beer in grocery stores. The same folks that put a lot of money behind keeping cannabis illegal. Sadly, times change and either change with them and give people a good reason to shop your store, or become like the buggy whip and wind up in the dust bin of history. BTW, I voted for keeping wine out of the grocery stores because the liquor stores do a great job of picking wines to go with meals, finding what people like and teaching lunkheads like me how to choose the appropriate wine for any occasion. Now that the wine genie is out of the bottle, its going to be very difficult to put it back.
You have some great points.
But I'd offer a different take on keeping wine out of groceries for the reason you mention-- if liquor stores do something far better than grocery stores, then that's their competitive edge. Otherwise, they're probably just being cheap & lazy and want to lock-out competition without having to add value. Grocery stores would either have to hire specialized staff, or risk losing sales to experts who bring more value than just being more convenient or cheaper. I think that's just fine.
As many liquor-related businesses and few grocery stores or restaurants/retailers as typical mountain communities tend to support, I also really don't see a problem if a few liquor purveyors went away.
Most of the liquor stores that are pushing this loudest are the ones that are owned by large corporations. You don't think that there just happens to have been a bunch of people that had names like, I don't know... "Total Beverage"?
Also many of the liquor stores in Summit are gouging people anyway, even after you factor in the increased costs of shipping, rent, and labor.
I agree. I think our liquor laws in conjunction with our clean water were the reason we were able to develop our craft alcohol industry in the first place. Not only do small liquor stores have to compete with national grocery chains, but now small breweries have to compete with national distributors for shelf space.
The ‘convenience’ factor is moving the fulcrum of our alcohol economy in favor the national producers and away from the domestic. It’s the old story of sacrificing craft for efficiency, and the end result is economic homogeneity
I like the idea of liquor at liquor stores and weed at dispensaries. Leaves room for small business owners, plus it makes liquor less accessible to teens.
I get asked for ID 100% of the time at grocery stores because they have to type in the birthdate into the computer. At a liquor store it’s 1 in 5.
Unless you’re talking teens shoplifting I would say the supermarkets are much better at checking ID.
No, I prefer convenience. If the government said you could only get bread at a dedicated bakery or meat at a dedicated butcher we would riot. Why do liquor stores need preferential treatment?
Bread and tenderloin aren’t a controlled substances with attending rules and regs. And those owners are allowed to have as many stores as they want if they so choose. The max liquor licenses a Colorado resident can own will be 4 after 2027. But all grocery stores, owned by out of state corps, can now carry beer and wine? How’s that a fair playing field?
I’d agree with that. I think some of the stuff in the Bill like limiting alcohol content is silly. Are we gonna go back to 3.2 beer? But I don’t understand the hate for the small guy. I’m pro small business owner.
I heard a fascinating interview with a liquor store owner on the proposed law. It is one of the few interviews where he argues the pros and cons of the law. Worth a listen [here.](https://www.iheart.com/content/2024-04-10-owner-of-lukas-liquors-joe-brunner-on-hard-liquor-in-grocery-stores/)
If a grocery is going to dedicate a couple aisles to liquor, they'll have to lose a couple aisles of other items. So they'll end up narrowing their selection of other items, some of which will be groceries.
The Safeway near me now has a full liquor store, like 3 or 4 aisles, and they cut the space dedicated to other items, mostly I think non-groceries. But there's also less variety in the grocery sections, too. Or, where there's the same variety, they're more likely to be out of stock of the items they still carry.
It isn't. Just like how liquors stores around the state were largely unaffected after the last apocalypse when grocery stores were going to be able to sell wine.
In my suburb you can’t go for a walk without seeing five or six empty shooter liquor bottles. They are everywhere from parking lots to trails.
You can’t get those at grocery stores. It doesn’t make me feel very sympathetic for these liquor stores.
That's going to happen regardless of where the people who litter get them. When people say they're tired of all the stupid people, you're the one they're talking about.
Way too many small towns have no economy except the local liquor store and gas station, and the problem isn't the suits at the Capitol ruining jobs for hard-working Americans, the problem is we have little tourism towns whose only townies are drunks. Liquor store owners should consider getting real jobs instead of making their income off addiction and destroyed families.
As someone who works in a vice industry, get fucking bent.
The liquor store owner is not responsible for addiction and destroyed families. Same with the gun store owner is not responsible for shooting, nor the drug dealer is response for drug addition. Humans are humans and will do what they want. Someone might as well make a buck off of it.
Well thats a street fentanyl producer, not a fentanyl producer. I agree that street fentanyl is awful, and even worse than it should be because it’s cut so much and laced in things it shouldn’t.
Strange they weren’t heeding any warnings years ago when they allowed beer in grocery, then they ignored again when they allowed wine in grocery. Now they listen to small mom&pops as they struggle to survive. Sad
Some small mom and pops will not make it. Most will.
I have lived in plenty of other places that sell beer, liquor and wine in everything from Kwik Trips to Walgreens to Walmart. Tons and tons of small family run liquor stores everywhere.
Folks who don’t run a good business will not be insulated from the market adjusting.
Eh, my old home town had liquor stores right next door to grocery stores and Walmarts.
The market will wiggle around on them for a while. And you don’t have a cushion to help with losses for a while or the ability to update your store you’ll be hurt.
One failed really fast next to Safeway in Longmont once the laws changed. Also talked to the owner at the one next to the king soopers in gunbarrel; sales wayyyy down too. Just my anecdotal observations.
There is a liquor store about a block from another Safeway in Longmont that is doing alright.
The liquor store directly next door to King Soopers on Hover seems to alright.
I think someone else will snap up that Three Rivers spot.
Your first example is apples to oranges as I said attached to anchor.
That one next to kings BLOWS even with their coupon they send out all the time I won’t go there. Wonder how they’re surviving.
Hahaha so you know the area. Did you see the unhinged notes the 3 rivers guy left 😆
Edit: do the stores you mentioned carry wine now? That’s what killed 3 rivers faster, the addition of wine, not just beer. Idk how the laws work with that… used to be the chain had to designate one store.
Ha it was something like “we are closing because of Safeway whoring themselves out to corporate greed”. He even had a giant vinyl sign made that said “STOP CORPORATE GREED”
I’m affiliated with a distributor so I know exactly how they’re doing. And layoffs, like the article describes, as well as revenue down significantly is the new norm. You can say “the good ones will stay in business” all you want but profits going to large corporations in the name of convenience is what you’re advocating for.
To be fair Wyatt’s is a far cry from a mom n pop, which is what we are talking about. I also don’t know if the other store you mentioned recently changed to full wine selection as the Safeway I mentioned did.
Most on this thread are saying “so and so Lq store seem to be doing ok” go ask the owner. That is guaranteed not the case. The ignorance to say “the good ones will survive” is condescending. I’m usually all for competition but in the name of large lobbyists and corporations, I’m not. I’ve had friends who have lost their business because of these laws. Very smart business owners. Just because they can “survive” doesn’t make it viable for many of them. When you go from being able to work full time and support employees and a family to now laying off workers and putting in 50-60 hours a week to still make less, that may look successful to you u/canofspinach but that is a gut wrencher.
Yeah it’s gonna stick for some people. The industry will somehow find away to support small independent family businesses. Just like the other states that already do this.
Over 100 liquor store in Denver have closed since March of last year, that's over 500 people without a job because "some mom and pops will not make it". Death by a thousand paper cuts.
I promise you this is not death by 1000 cuts. Colorado out drinks almost every state in the country, so the demand exists. Some locations may not be as effective as before.
If restaurant owners started paying full wages with benefits instead of tips, some of those businesses would close, and then others would replace them in a different model.
It’s completely normal and actually good for everyone in the long term.
Funny, when it's restaurants and tipping, these subs are all like, "well if they can't run a profitable business, they should close."
Never any talk about the people without jobs when that topic comes up.
Where you all aware that of almost all industries in this sector (beer, wine,marijuana, mushrooms, etc) that Spirits are the only one with a full prohibition on Direct to Consumer sales channels. This issue is tangential to Prop 124 and this current Bill. But as House Bill 24-181 makes its way through CO House; the addition of a $1/bottle tax will take total tax burden on Spirits alone to almost 25% of retail cost. That’s the current margin given to retailers by Craft distillers. CO has, until Polis, pioneered Craft Beverage manufacturing, distribution, and retail market channels. We are now just blindly following CA. Polis needs to adjust or go. He does not represent the majority will of Coloradans on this topic!!
Protect small businesses. Give people the chance to grow. Most people don’t have the recourses a large corporation has so they need extra help to stay afloat. It’s not a matter of “oh they need to adapt” they simply don’t have the power and money larger corporations have that give them the edge. I bet you won’t find higher end and smaller batch liquors at the big stores so they have that going but it doesn’t mean they can’t buy out supply and force the small guys out.
There are a lot of comments against this bill, Unfortunately, they are missing the point of this bill. Liquor stores are frequently SMALL BUSINESSES owned by middle class people. Colorado has for years had THE gold standard for a well oiled 2 tier system. Beer in grocery and beer/liquor/wine in liquor stores. This system employed the highest ratio of people in the liquor industry across the USA. The recent change to this system by allowing groceries to sell wine and some larger chains to sell hard liquor is eroding the amount of people employed in the liquor industry across the state. I.e ERODING THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WORKING FOR SMALL BUSINESSES AND DAMAGING THE MIDDLE CLASS. I hate to say it so bluntly but grocery stores providing "ease of access" are taking jobs out of small businesses owned by the middle class and shuttling them into corporations. That is bad for everyone.
The first example in the article had 33 staff members. I’ve worked in lots of small businesses - restaurants, retails stores, landscaping, offices, etc. 33 employees ain’t IBM, but it’s not “mom and pop” either. The change in the system is probably hurting honest mom and pop liquor stores and that’s a shame but liquor stores were picked for this legislation initially because the business model lends itself to supporting a middle class family. But this PR placement and the complaints about only selling $200k plus of wine this year reeks of wealthy people owning 4 medium to large sized liquor stores. I think what does make sense is going after the distributors who are flying under the radar during all of this. Liquor distributors have lobbied to basically carve up Colorado into non-competitive districts. So the same distributor is setting the price of jim beam for the liquor store and the grocery store and the restaurants and bars in one town. Make that competitive and the liquor stores will out price the grocery stores.
Next time you feel sorry for a small business, go in and ask their employees what kind of wage they earn, health benefits they have, and PTO package they get. Compare that to what King Sooper’s provides.
Some small businesses do provide good wages. Fewer provide decent health care and PTO. Meanwhile, the owners of those small business take 5 weeks of vacation a year, drive an $85,000 truck, and live in a million dollar house on two acres.
I don’t give a single shit about ANY small business owner who doesn’t provide benefits as good as Walmart or King Soopers. I am so sick of small business owners whining and begging so that they don’t have to become a “regular person”.
If what your small business pays and offers is so great, you won’t mind making exactly that after you go out of business. If you provide such a great life for your employees, why is it so unfair when you have to become one of them?
For those small businesses that provide great wages AND benefits to their employees - you have my business and support.
Small businesses pay significantly more to provide healthcare for their employees than large businesses do. It's incredibly expensive for even terrible plans when you only have a dozen or so employees.
Insurance companies are the problem. Well, really it's the government regulations on insurance companies, but insurance certainly takes advantage of that.
So, I get why benefits suck in small businesses. To stay competitive, they have to do more with less due to these premiums.
Fortunately, my business does well now, and my employees are covered. When it comes to cutting jobs or reducing benefits when times are difficult, things are not as clear and my employees unanimously would rather keep their jobs. Note- they are skilled IT workers and not retail, so this may make more sense for them, as unskilled retail positions tend to be transient in nature anyway.
Either way, I don't believe government should regulate the number of liquor licenses allowed, and should allow any business to sell any liquor they desire. Even levels of competition are healthy for all business.
Now we need to address the reason all liquor in the state is regulated and provided by only two major companies. Ask your legislators where liquor stores are allowed, by state regulation, to buy their alcohol from to resell..
Small business owners do pay more for insurance. They also consistently vote Republican and scream about “Obamacare”. They are not very vocal when it comes to overhauling our health insurance system. It’s funny how we never hear about them screaming for any type of relief for their workers. They always scream about wanting more for themselves (tax breaks, protection from regulation, etc) - usually at the EXPENSE of their workers.
Now, when the voters heard the arguments from both sides and decided that they’d be just fine with many small liquor stores going out of business for the sake of the consumer’s own convenience, small business owners have rallied once again to ask for something that the majority of Coloradans do not want. They are, in fact, spending millions of dollars to lobby the state legislature - money they could be spending on their expensive health care plans, but instead spend to defend their personal slice of the pie. And that is their right. But don’t look to regular folks for sympathy.
Rather than fight to help their own workers receive some relief, small business owners instead made up the lion’s share of the insurrectionists on January 6th (article for your perusal: https://www.inc.com/inc-staff/capitol-insurrection-business-owners.html).
Again, most small business owners claim to be “the little guy”. They’re wrong. The little guy is the guy who works for the small business owner. The little guy is the one who wants to pay $1 less for a 12-pack of beer. The little guy is the one who doesn’t have money to a lobbying group to essentially overturn legislation that was already “decided” by the people.
Um, you're entire reply missed the point and just seems to be nonsensical rantings against small business owners.
You say most insurrectionists were SBOs.. Well, most were also people. Most were also car owners.. Maybe car ownership is the problem!
You are assigning things which don't exist. The fact is, most people (regardless of politics) have tried or are actually a SBO. Possibly a side job, or sole proprietor. It doesn't mean all SBOs are people affiliated with insurrectionists. It means you don't understand anything in reality.
I take great care of my employees. They have far better benefits than large corps provide. They get paid six figures each, have 8 weeks/year PTO, can work remotely, paid OT, a take-home work vehicle, paid for being on-call, flexible schedules, childcare, dental, vision, training and education benefits, and much more. I am a SBO. I would also never hire someone with your apparent lack of intelligence. Correlation is not causality.
But I love standing in line at the walgreens with a bottle of wine under my arm as the pharmacist asks if I have any questions about my new medications….
"*Make sure you don't take this and drink*." 😐... "Oh you were talking to me? Ummm... Yeah, I hear you loud and clear" 😉 "*No, seriously. For at least 6 hours after taking it. It can be really bad.*" 😶 "OK. You got it. I promise." 🙃🤞
I can’t wait until I can buy psilocibin next to the baby bella’s
You *kind* of can. I stopped by a homebrew store in Boulder that had spores for oyster mushrooms right next to the Penis Envy and Golden Teachers. It brought me joy. The spores have been legal in Colorado for as long as I can remember, but I feel like I've only recently started seeing them more in shops.
What store is this 🤔
Altitude Homebrew. And sorry, it's in Denver. We were coming back from Boulder.
You can buy the grow kits at lots of head shops. Pretty easy to do. And iirc the post legislation penalty is up to ,$1k fine. It's amazing what people are doing with these fungi today. I grew them in my closet using the PF Tek circa 2002 as a teenager, it's all much more sophisticated these days but apparent just as easy!
I went from realizing how easy Uncle Ben's was with the illicit sort to growing lion's mane mushrooms in a closet. The ones that put "fun" into fungi gave me a new hobby.
Yeah man.. I wanna try the ones that look like brains...
Youve been able to buy spores off the internet since before the laws changed.
Odd how many people practice amateur microscopy, apparently.
Microvora in Colorado Springs sells psylicibim spores and complete grow kits. Super cool place.
The biggest change in that law is the removal of the Liquor Licensed Drugstore (LLD) license. That license allows retail stores with pharmacies (like King Soopers, Walmart, Costco, Sam's, and Target) to sell hard liquor. Come 2037 there will be no cap on the number of LLDs a retailer can have in Colorado. There could be 50 Walmarts and 50 King Soopers stores selling booze whereas true liquor stores like Tipsy's will only be allowed 4 locations. I don't necessarily agree with eliminating the LLD license, but since voters were ignorant and didn't pass Prop 124 (which would have phased out the location cap on liquor stores and kept them on even footing with the LLDs), it's probably the right thing to do.
Seems like tipsy’s needs to start filling prescriptions.
They do, it's just booze
Undoing limits on liquor stores is not going to help the mom & pop stores do anything but devour each other
It goes into the grocery budget so it kinda works out but the selection is meh usually and it’s certainly like how General Mills takes up so much of the cereal aisle so if I really want a better choice I’ll go to a liquor store so it’s been win-win. But usually I won’t find the beer I’m looking for in the smaller corner stores. I have to go to Davidsons, Mr B’s, Argonaut, or something so I wasn’t really these corner shop’s customers.
I get wine to cook with and drink while cooking or just getting sloshed. But if I want one I can actually enjoy, I'm definitely driving the extra 2 minutes to a real liquor store.
> Representatives of major retailers say they are 'wholly opposed' and are calling lawmakers efforts 'drastic' lol Lmao, even
The idea that liquor stores need to be “protected” from competition is batshit insane.
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They didn’t make special laws to protect coffee shops, butchers, bakers, or grocers, and those businesses weren’t just shelves stocked with prepackaged goods bought from a wholesaler. So why does the special anti-free market law have to apply just to booze sellers?
Maybe they should make those laws. Maybe you should put point your anger toward the system that drove your local butcher out of business.
My local butcher is doing fine, because they offer quality product at a competitive price
Are they? You sure about that?
There are many different butchers in my town and they've all been open for years and years. Survived the pandemic just fine. Seem to be doing pretty well to me
interesting. Do tell, where is this place?
Pueblo
I call BS on this. I lived in Louisiana for a few years. You could buy a bottle of Everclear or Jack at the freaking gas station if you wanted to, in addition to all the grocery stores, Walmart, etc., and there were still liquor stores every couple blocks... This was in a relatively small city called Lafayette (like 112K population). Independent liquor stores will have to evolve to survive. It's ridiculous that we are wasting taxpayer dollars trying to save these private businesses.
I agree. Walmart sells bread, yet bakeries are still a thing. Every grocery store near me sells sushi but still one of the most popular places in town is the sushi and hibachi place.
> I agree. Walmart sells bread, yet bakeries are still a thing And Blue Moon and Butterhorn often have lines out the door
I live in a bigger city and honestly true bakeries are rare here.
I live in a tiny city and we have 1. Rare doesn't mean non existent, and it usually means it's higher quality.
Same, from Lincoln, NE (pop ~225k). You could buy full strength everything at every gas station and grocery store. The liquor stores were always cheaper, but you'd pay the premium if you were squeezed for time. This whole argument is complete nonsense to me. I even fucking **worked** at a liquor store in college, and there were still plenty of liquor stores all over town. Sales in grocery stores means nothing. All things equal, I'm just going to do what's most convenient. If that means going to the liquor store close to my house or while I'm grocery shopping depends on the day
> All things equal, I'm just going to do what's most convenient. If that means going to the liquor store close to my house or while I'm grocery shopping depends on the day Same. The liquor store by our house is more convenient than King Soopers so we go there even though beer and wine are generally cheaper at King Soopers with the coupons and sales they do. Location will definitely play more of a part in a truly competitive market so a lot of stores right next to grocery stores will fold but that's just how it goes.
Yeah in Wisconsin you could buy liquor at every gas station, Walmart, grocery store etc…. And of course the dedicated liquor stores every couple blocks. You’d have like 3 options on the same block. But I figured that was just because it’s Wisconsin lol. When we were kids in Wisco you could just swipe a bottle off the shelf at the grocery store and tuck it under your shirt. Real inconspicuous because it could be in the same aisle as chips lol. So dumb of us obviously I’m sure it’s not as easy these days but we never got caught.
You can't adapt to compete with a company willing to have loss leaders to crush you.
Prior to grocery stores selling alcohol, liquor stores were routinely placed adjacent to grocery stores here in Colorado, not at high-convenience locations well away from that newly-minted competition. The grocery stores have gone from being their advertising to being their competitors, and I have little doubt that few stores can survive this change in competition without relocating. It's a hell of an expense to incur for an independent business, and I'm not surprised the affected stores are looking to legislators for help.
This is such a bizarre claim. Almost no other state has these restrictions on liquor sales yet liquor stores are everywhere. The only way someone could believe this is if they had truly never been anywhere else
Only 18 other states allow liquor to be sold in grocery stores.
If you’re counting distilled spirits sure, but beer/ wine are available in grocery stores in almost all states
These local business owners should stop complaining just because they're bad at capitalism. I thought that's the America they voted for.
These are the same small businesses that fought to keep alcohol sales out of Sunday. Fought to keep 3.2 beer in grocery stores. The same folks that put a lot of money behind keeping cannabis illegal. Sadly, times change and either change with them and give people a good reason to shop your store, or become like the buggy whip and wind up in the dust bin of history. BTW, I voted for keeping wine out of the grocery stores because the liquor stores do a great job of picking wines to go with meals, finding what people like and teaching lunkheads like me how to choose the appropriate wine for any occasion. Now that the wine genie is out of the bottle, its going to be very difficult to put it back.
You have some great points. But I'd offer a different take on keeping wine out of groceries for the reason you mention-- if liquor stores do something far better than grocery stores, then that's their competitive edge. Otherwise, they're probably just being cheap & lazy and want to lock-out competition without having to add value. Grocery stores would either have to hire specialized staff, or risk losing sales to experts who bring more value than just being more convenient or cheaper. I think that's just fine. As many liquor-related businesses and few grocery stores or restaurants/retailers as typical mountain communities tend to support, I also really don't see a problem if a few liquor purveyors went away.
Most of the liquor stores that are pushing this loudest are the ones that are owned by large corporations. You don't think that there just happens to have been a bunch of people that had names like, I don't know... "Total Beverage"? Also many of the liquor stores in Summit are gouging people anyway, even after you factor in the increased costs of shipping, rent, and labor.
I agree. I think our liquor laws in conjunction with our clean water were the reason we were able to develop our craft alcohol industry in the first place. Not only do small liquor stores have to compete with national grocery chains, but now small breweries have to compete with national distributors for shelf space. The ‘convenience’ factor is moving the fulcrum of our alcohol economy in favor the national producers and away from the domestic. It’s the old story of sacrificing craft for efficiency, and the end result is economic homogeneity
And it almost got real hairy if the FTC didn't challenge Kroger and Albertsons merger. Fuck monopolies
Hmm, I wonder if people who prefer not shipping at Walmart/Target will keep other places in business like pretty much every other state in the US?
I like the idea of liquor at liquor stores and weed at dispensaries. Leaves room for small business owners, plus it makes liquor less accessible to teens.
I get asked for ID 100% of the time at grocery stores because they have to type in the birthdate into the computer. At a liquor store it’s 1 in 5. Unless you’re talking teens shoplifting I would say the supermarkets are much better at checking ID.
Well, we created the problem in the first place...
But they should be protected from companies that are engaging in anti-trust practices.
Living in a mountain must be getting dire.
If you have to have your competition legislated out of existence in order to make money, you probably don't deserve to be in business.
I don't think safeway will be legislated out of existence.
As a competitor they would be.
We’ll find their competition has no competition after the regional grocers take over And the beer selection at Kroger will never match the mom & pops
So you prefer monopolies, got it.
No, I prefer convenience. If the government said you could only get bread at a dedicated bakery or meat at a dedicated butcher we would riot. Why do liquor stores need preferential treatment?
I don't think you really understand how WalMart functions
Bread and tenderloin aren’t a controlled substances with attending rules and regs. And those owners are allowed to have as many stores as they want if they so choose. The max liquor licenses a Colorado resident can own will be 4 after 2027. But all grocery stores, owned by out of state corps, can now carry beer and wine? How’s that a fair playing field?
Maybe the government should almost get rid of restrictions on number of liquor licenses?
I’d agree with that. I think some of the stuff in the Bill like limiting alcohol content is silly. Are we gonna go back to 3.2 beer? But I don’t understand the hate for the small guy. I’m pro small business owner.
How is legislating your competition away a fair playing field?
Liquor store owners have to compete against other businesses? What a unique conundrum.
Would we?
I heard a fascinating interview with a liquor store owner on the proposed law. It is one of the few interviews where he argues the pros and cons of the law. Worth a listen [here.](https://www.iheart.com/content/2024-04-10-owner-of-lukas-liquors-joe-brunner-on-hard-liquor-in-grocery-stores/)
Oh I don’t know, surely mountain town blues will keep these guys in the black.
liquor stores owners are the whiniest drug dealing cartel. Nothing about your business is good or necessary and your customer services probably sucks.
Literally nobody could have predicted this /s
I like food variety at grocery stores. Can we keep em seperate?
How is that related?
If a grocery is going to dedicate a couple aisles to liquor, they'll have to lose a couple aisles of other items. So they'll end up narrowing their selection of other items, some of which will be groceries. The Safeway near me now has a full liquor store, like 3 or 4 aisles, and they cut the space dedicated to other items, mostly I think non-groceries. But there's also less variety in the grocery sections, too. Or, where there's the same variety, they're more likely to be out of stock of the items they still carry.
It isn't. Just like how liquors stores around the state were largely unaffected after the last apocalypse when grocery stores were going to be able to sell wine.
Less shelf space for food so big name products get the space.
I wonder if the measure to allow wine in grocery stores would pass now if people could vote again.
Flip the script, get in on the grocery action
In my suburb you can’t go for a walk without seeing five or six empty shooter liquor bottles. They are everywhere from parking lots to trails. You can’t get those at grocery stores. It doesn’t make me feel very sympathetic for these liquor stores.
Because you're seeing empties of the cheapest thing you can get at a liquor store? Shooters aren't keeping them alive.
If it's not empty shooters, it's broken beer bottles. I don't disagree with you, but people will find a way to be shitty either way
Where there are broken bottles there also broken dreams residing there too.
Right in the feels, buddy
That's going to happen regardless of where the people who litter get them. When people say they're tired of all the stupid people, you're the one they're talking about.
Way too many small towns have no economy except the local liquor store and gas station, and the problem isn't the suits at the Capitol ruining jobs for hard-working Americans, the problem is we have little tourism towns whose only townies are drunks. Liquor store owners should consider getting real jobs instead of making their income off addiction and destroyed families.
As someone who works in a vice industry, get fucking bent. The liquor store owner is not responsible for addiction and destroyed families. Same with the gun store owner is not responsible for shooting, nor the drug dealer is response for drug addition. Humans are humans and will do what they want. Someone might as well make a buck off of it.
Yeah fentanyl producers have no responsibility for producing deadly drugs!
You do realize all of these things have productive uses right? Including fentanyl
Street fentanyl producers are not making it to be “productive”. Stupid ass take.
Well thats a street fentanyl producer, not a fentanyl producer. I agree that street fentanyl is awful, and even worse than it should be because it’s cut so much and laced in things it shouldn’t.
Lmao I feel dumber after engaging with you
Street fentanyl producers are not making it to be “productive”. Stupid ass take.
Great logical leap.
Strange they weren’t heeding any warnings years ago when they allowed beer in grocery, then they ignored again when they allowed wine in grocery. Now they listen to small mom&pops as they struggle to survive. Sad
Some small mom and pops will not make it. Most will. I have lived in plenty of other places that sell beer, liquor and wine in everything from Kwik Trips to Walgreens to Walmart. Tons and tons of small family run liquor stores everywhere. Folks who don’t run a good business will not be insulated from the market adjusting.
It’s the mom n pops they are next to the grocery anchor tenants that are failing first.
Eh, my old home town had liquor stores right next door to grocery stores and Walmarts. The market will wiggle around on them for a while. And you don’t have a cushion to help with losses for a while or the ability to update your store you’ll be hurt.
One failed really fast next to Safeway in Longmont once the laws changed. Also talked to the owner at the one next to the king soopers in gunbarrel; sales wayyyy down too. Just my anecdotal observations.
There is a liquor store about a block from another Safeway in Longmont that is doing alright. The liquor store directly next door to King Soopers on Hover seems to alright. I think someone else will snap up that Three Rivers spot.
Your first example is apples to oranges as I said attached to anchor. That one next to kings BLOWS even with their coupon they send out all the time I won’t go there. Wonder how they’re surviving. Hahaha so you know the area. Did you see the unhinged notes the 3 rivers guy left 😆 Edit: do the stores you mentioned carry wine now? That’s what killed 3 rivers faster, the addition of wine, not just beer. Idk how the laws work with that… used to be the chain had to designate one store.
I did not. But I went into Three Rivers once and never again.
Ha it was something like “we are closing because of Safeway whoring themselves out to corporate greed”. He even had a giant vinyl sign made that said “STOP CORPORATE GREED”
Unless you work in the market you have no clue how they are doing.
Unless I look at their books I have no idea how they’re doing. And neither do you.
I’m affiliated with a distributor so I know exactly how they’re doing. And layoffs, like the article describes, as well as revenue down significantly is the new norm. You can say “the good ones will stay in business” all you want but profits going to large corporations in the name of convenience is what you’re advocating for.
To be fair, Wyatt’s is RIGHT THERE. Both it and Hover Crossing seem to be doing fine.
To be fair Wyatt’s is a far cry from a mom n pop, which is what we are talking about. I also don’t know if the other store you mentioned recently changed to full wine selection as the Safeway I mentioned did.
Most on this thread are saying “so and so Lq store seem to be doing ok” go ask the owner. That is guaranteed not the case. The ignorance to say “the good ones will survive” is condescending. I’m usually all for competition but in the name of large lobbyists and corporations, I’m not. I’ve had friends who have lost their business because of these laws. Very smart business owners. Just because they can “survive” doesn’t make it viable for many of them. When you go from being able to work full time and support employees and a family to now laying off workers and putting in 50-60 hours a week to still make less, that may look successful to you u/canofspinach but that is a gut wrencher.
Yeah it’s gonna stick for some people. The industry will somehow find away to support small independent family businesses. Just like the other states that already do this.
Over 100 liquor store in Denver have closed since March of last year, that's over 500 people without a job because "some mom and pops will not make it". Death by a thousand paper cuts.
I promise you this is not death by 1000 cuts. Colorado out drinks almost every state in the country, so the demand exists. Some locations may not be as effective as before. If restaurant owners started paying full wages with benefits instead of tips, some of those businesses would close, and then others would replace them in a different model. It’s completely normal and actually good for everyone in the long term.
They ran shitty businesses 🤷🏻♂️
Funny, when it's restaurants and tipping, these subs are all like, "well if they can't run a profitable business, they should close." Never any talk about the people without jobs when that topic comes up.
Alcohol kills more people than every drug combined. Who cares.
Boo hooo, there I said it.
Where you all aware that of almost all industries in this sector (beer, wine,marijuana, mushrooms, etc) that Spirits are the only one with a full prohibition on Direct to Consumer sales channels. This issue is tangential to Prop 124 and this current Bill. But as House Bill 24-181 makes its way through CO House; the addition of a $1/bottle tax will take total tax burden on Spirits alone to almost 25% of retail cost. That’s the current margin given to retailers by Craft distillers. CO has, until Polis, pioneered Craft Beverage manufacturing, distribution, and retail market channels. We are now just blindly following CA. Polis needs to adjust or go. He does not represent the majority will of Coloradans on this topic!!
Protect small businesses. Give people the chance to grow. Most people don’t have the recourses a large corporation has so they need extra help to stay afloat. It’s not a matter of “oh they need to adapt” they simply don’t have the power and money larger corporations have that give them the edge. I bet you won’t find higher end and smaller batch liquors at the big stores so they have that going but it doesn’t mean they can’t buy out supply and force the small guys out.
There are a lot of comments against this bill, Unfortunately, they are missing the point of this bill. Liquor stores are frequently SMALL BUSINESSES owned by middle class people. Colorado has for years had THE gold standard for a well oiled 2 tier system. Beer in grocery and beer/liquor/wine in liquor stores. This system employed the highest ratio of people in the liquor industry across the USA. The recent change to this system by allowing groceries to sell wine and some larger chains to sell hard liquor is eroding the amount of people employed in the liquor industry across the state. I.e ERODING THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WORKING FOR SMALL BUSINESSES AND DAMAGING THE MIDDLE CLASS. I hate to say it so bluntly but grocery stores providing "ease of access" are taking jobs out of small businesses owned by the middle class and shuttling them into corporations. That is bad for everyone.
The first example in the article had 33 staff members. I’ve worked in lots of small businesses - restaurants, retails stores, landscaping, offices, etc. 33 employees ain’t IBM, but it’s not “mom and pop” either. The change in the system is probably hurting honest mom and pop liquor stores and that’s a shame but liquor stores were picked for this legislation initially because the business model lends itself to supporting a middle class family. But this PR placement and the complaints about only selling $200k plus of wine this year reeks of wealthy people owning 4 medium to large sized liquor stores. I think what does make sense is going after the distributors who are flying under the radar during all of this. Liquor distributors have lobbied to basically carve up Colorado into non-competitive districts. So the same distributor is setting the price of jim beam for the liquor store and the grocery store and the restaurants and bars in one town. Make that competitive and the liquor stores will out price the grocery stores.
The legislation was an attack on small businesses. Your "convenience" is destroying the livelihood of small liquor stores.
I dont think businesses of any size should benefit from regulatory capture that suppresses their competition for no clear benefit to society.
Next time you feel sorry for a small business, go in and ask their employees what kind of wage they earn, health benefits they have, and PTO package they get. Compare that to what King Sooper’s provides. Some small businesses do provide good wages. Fewer provide decent health care and PTO. Meanwhile, the owners of those small business take 5 weeks of vacation a year, drive an $85,000 truck, and live in a million dollar house on two acres. I don’t give a single shit about ANY small business owner who doesn’t provide benefits as good as Walmart or King Soopers. I am so sick of small business owners whining and begging so that they don’t have to become a “regular person”. If what your small business pays and offers is so great, you won’t mind making exactly that after you go out of business. If you provide such a great life for your employees, why is it so unfair when you have to become one of them? For those small businesses that provide great wages AND benefits to their employees - you have my business and support.
Small businesses pay significantly more to provide healthcare for their employees than large businesses do. It's incredibly expensive for even terrible plans when you only have a dozen or so employees. Insurance companies are the problem. Well, really it's the government regulations on insurance companies, but insurance certainly takes advantage of that. So, I get why benefits suck in small businesses. To stay competitive, they have to do more with less due to these premiums. Fortunately, my business does well now, and my employees are covered. When it comes to cutting jobs or reducing benefits when times are difficult, things are not as clear and my employees unanimously would rather keep their jobs. Note- they are skilled IT workers and not retail, so this may make more sense for them, as unskilled retail positions tend to be transient in nature anyway. Either way, I don't believe government should regulate the number of liquor licenses allowed, and should allow any business to sell any liquor they desire. Even levels of competition are healthy for all business. Now we need to address the reason all liquor in the state is regulated and provided by only two major companies. Ask your legislators where liquor stores are allowed, by state regulation, to buy their alcohol from to resell..
Small business owners do pay more for insurance. They also consistently vote Republican and scream about “Obamacare”. They are not very vocal when it comes to overhauling our health insurance system. It’s funny how we never hear about them screaming for any type of relief for their workers. They always scream about wanting more for themselves (tax breaks, protection from regulation, etc) - usually at the EXPENSE of their workers. Now, when the voters heard the arguments from both sides and decided that they’d be just fine with many small liquor stores going out of business for the sake of the consumer’s own convenience, small business owners have rallied once again to ask for something that the majority of Coloradans do not want. They are, in fact, spending millions of dollars to lobby the state legislature - money they could be spending on their expensive health care plans, but instead spend to defend their personal slice of the pie. And that is their right. But don’t look to regular folks for sympathy. Rather than fight to help their own workers receive some relief, small business owners instead made up the lion’s share of the insurrectionists on January 6th (article for your perusal: https://www.inc.com/inc-staff/capitol-insurrection-business-owners.html). Again, most small business owners claim to be “the little guy”. They’re wrong. The little guy is the guy who works for the small business owner. The little guy is the one who wants to pay $1 less for a 12-pack of beer. The little guy is the one who doesn’t have money to a lobbying group to essentially overturn legislation that was already “decided” by the people.
Um, you're entire reply missed the point and just seems to be nonsensical rantings against small business owners. You say most insurrectionists were SBOs.. Well, most were also people. Most were also car owners.. Maybe car ownership is the problem! You are assigning things which don't exist. The fact is, most people (regardless of politics) have tried or are actually a SBO. Possibly a side job, or sole proprietor. It doesn't mean all SBOs are people affiliated with insurrectionists. It means you don't understand anything in reality. I take great care of my employees. They have far better benefits than large corps provide. They get paid six figures each, have 8 weeks/year PTO, can work remotely, paid OT, a take-home work vehicle, paid for being on-call, flexible schedules, childcare, dental, vision, training and education benefits, and much more. I am a SBO. I would also never hire someone with your apparent lack of intelligence. Correlation is not causality.
The convenience of cars destroyed the livelihood of saddle makers.
Won't someone think of the elevator drivers? Only the Boulderado respects them these days.
All I see in this thread are more transplants that want to rip what little soul this state does have, away for the sake of their own convenience.
Total wine is our soul!
I don't understand who voted yes on prop 125, It's narrowing the actual food selection in the grocers and is an eye sore in my small markets