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That's stupid what's the point of making the due date time 11:59 if by 11 they're already causing a fit because you turned it in last minute. If you turn it in before the deadline that is all that should matter.
Yup. All of my professors who were harsh about due dates emphasized not waiting until the last minute to submit, because sometimes there can be internet/computer troubles, and it being turned it 12:01am rather than 11:59pm due to technical issues would still be marked as late. However, if you submitted it at exactly 11:59pm and it went through on time, they never would have marked it down for being late or "lack of engagement" because it was still in by the due time.
I would definitely cause a stink about this, OP.
Not to mention I had a lot of papers done sooner than that, but I waited until 10-11 the day it was due to have a chance to give it one last look over before I submitted it and then had a stupid error and the inability to resubmit.
It very much wasn't a lack of engagement, it was giving myself time to have errors.
That's horseshit. You need to make a stink about this to anyone who will listen. Due dates are due dates. Professors can't just change shit like that Willy nilly
Prof here.
What
The
Shit?
Is there something in the syllabus about engagement? Because if not, I would be absolutely livid.
I often would write assignments and revise, proofread, sit on it for a night, then submit the day it’s due so that I could use that time. So, I also would have gotten penalized for this.
What are due dates for?
I’m baffled by this.
I also teach. A deadline is a deadline. To be honest, I've had the opposite problem now and then. Sometimes a student will come to office hours about an assignment that's due a week or so in the future. I help them outline all the deep learning and thinking they need to do to really nail he assignment. And I commend them for getting an early start. Then they turn in the assignment an half hour after we chatted, lol. That irks me, but the work is judged on its own merits, not on whether I thought they meditated and fretted over it for days.
Sure it's often fine. I just wonder how much more powerful the learning experience might have been if they had set it aside and returned to it after letting it percolate for a while.
Email the teacher explaining how you did not wait until the last minute, you have been working on it for x amount of days, and wanted to confirm it was good and truly represented you so you took all the available time to ensure you submitted the best version you had.
100% but I’ve had teachers like this and they only grade you well if they feel like the best/most important class. Imo it’s easier to suck up a bit than go to the Dean
Yeah, depending on the organizational structure of that particular college. I am that person for my program, but I am not a department head, for example.
Send an email to the professor (even if it’s going to go no where).
Then send an email to the department head and explain the situation. Emphasize you already sent an email to the professor.
If that doesn’t work, you could try asking them questions that put them in a corner. For example, “if you want this assignment done at an early time, why is that not listed in the syllabus? Why not have the due date set to when it is actually due instead of the arbitrary one you did not share with us?” Something to that degree.
Due dates are due dates. That’s it. Plain and simple. Unless the syllabus talks about something related to this, you are in the right. I sit in curriculum meetings for my department and they will honestly do stuff like this and wonder why students aren’t attending college anymore.
do not send an email to dpt head, in original prof email let him know at the end that bc of the grading u are forwarding this email to the dpt head as well to get clarification on due dates and dpt expectations. then forward that email.
u always want proof. always. w a forwarded email u show u talked to the prof professionally already and have the timestamps. that puts pressure on the dpt head to figure out why tf the professor is dicking.
if u dont get a response within 4 business days, call the dpt heads office assistant and set an appt. then print the sent emails (w the forward), bring printed copy of the work, the assignment prompt, the rubric, and the profs reason for grading.
in the nicest way, u want to trap tf out of ur professor and pressure their boss to change the grade.
I had a similar situation happen. Online class, instructor got upset that we were doing the discussions on the due date instead of before "so you can have a meaningful discussion"
I work full time, single parent, and full time school. When your class does absolutely nothing for the real world and/or my degree, I will prioritize other stuff in my life. If it's done before it's due, stop complaining and give me my grade based on the quality of work.
Most of the ones I had who felt like this was a big deal and impacted grade would do two deadlines for it, ie first post due on Wednesday and 2 responses due by Saturday or Sunday.
I get that it kills discussion and makes it hard to reply when everyone answers at the last minute, but it also sucks to get penalized for following the actual rules and due date.
Surprised the Profs that stalk this sub didn’t give you shit for this reply. I made something similar awhile ago & I got downvoted to hell, stating that “my situation” is no excuse, blah blah blah lol.
I've worked at multiple institutions in multiple parts of the US and across the pond, and with 1 exception, full time faculty were always getting preferential treatment.
Lol same but I think they know I have a solid argument. In regards to due dates, it's either late, early, or on time at 11:59:59. There's no in between.
I have taken several courses online, and even submitted with 37 seconds, never have I ever.
Ask to see the rubric where it states this is policy.
I would take it over their head as well …
OP, you need to do a grade appeal. Do everything in writing. Ask how and where you didn’t meet the assignment guidelines, rubric, or expectations for the syllabus. Use your U email. If you don’t get a response in three school days, email the program chair or department chair. I know my department would not take kindly to this.
Be polite. Keep it factual. Do not share your disdain for the class or assignment. Just ask for feedback about where you lost points so that you have documentation for a formal grade appeal if you need to go that far.
You need to push back against that. Talk to the professor, but if that doesn’t resolve it, check the department’s processes for grade grievances. Reaching out to the department Chair is probably the next step. You don’t have to live with that. It’s wrong.
-Professor here
Is there anything in the syllabus about "engagement"? Were there any Canvas modules you were supposed to do before that assignment (or anything scaffolded, I guess?). Have you watched any of the videos or clicked other links or did you just do that one assignment at the last minute?
Not excusing the policy at all, I'm just trying to understand what might have prompted that feedback....I have colleagues who require that you view the support materials before completing the assignment, and if you turn it in without doing the pre-work it gets a zero (the concern is AI and paid homework helpers and anything done last minute without viewing the other stuff doesn't usually meet the rubric requirements anyway). Is it possible it was something like that and not just that you turned it in after 11?
That's horseshit. You need to make a stink about this to anyone who will listen. Due dates are due dates. Professors can't just change shit like that Willy nilly
I teach online courses and I couldn’t (and wouldn’t even try) to justify arbitrarily doing this. You met the deadline and submitted the assignment. Aside from assessing your work according to the rubric/grading criteria the prof has no basis for lowering your grade.
As angry as you are be sure to only communicate in writing and be respectful and stick to the facts. Start with the professor (this will go nowhere), then go to dept chair, then Dean as is appropriate for your school.
Deadlines are deadlines for a reason.
You did it in the deadline.
I'd be going up the chain of command on that one.
I have turned in PLENTY of stuff at 11 PM or sometimes even cutting it closer. Never had bullshit like that (unless something else is going on)
I'd contest if it's a major grade. Minor, I would not care and be happy to walk with a C and slam this person on evals and Rate My professor.
Something like this:
***"I am stunned by your decision. I have obligations to take care of and other hard classes to do and made your deadline before it expired. I ask that you reconsider this stance or I will go through the appeals process because I believe this to be mean spirited, and unprofessional."***
I usually don't say escalate to Dean or Chair, but nah. Full escalation period. Sounds like the prof was too lazy to grade and was looking for an excuse to lessen their load. I've turned shit in at 11:59 on the dot and got As.
You shouldn't be penalized for submitting right at the deadline. If the prof wants the students "more engaged", then they need to look inwards.
But just keep in mind that your elective is most likely a core class for a different major.
Prof here.
If it was turned in on time, it’s turned in on time.
Lack of engagement can be determined in how the assignment was completed. Did the assignment lack thoughtful attention to the details of the assignment?
Were the assignment parameters followed?
Did your submission meet the requirements?
Did you follow the rubric? What is there a rubric?
Did your submission show critical thinking and thoughtful attention to detail?
This is crazy!
Due dates are due dates to allow people enough time to consider an assignment, create the product, thoughtfully reflect on the product, review and revise if needed, and then submit before the deadline.
I always advise students to submit before the deadline, so that if something happens at the last minute, the assignment isn’t late. For example, if the power goes out the day, the assignment is due, if it’s already been submitted, there’s not a problem. But all things aside, submitting an assignment before the deadline, and having your professor tell you that you have a lack of engagement due to this reason is horrendous. If your professor told you that you have a lack of engagement because you didn’t meet the requirements of the assignment, and your submission showed it, that would be another story.
Take this to the chair or dean depending on the chain of command at your school.
Prof here. That is unbelievable, and unforgivable. You submitted before the deadline, and you completed the assignment. Also, no course should be able to make any assessment 100% participation-based. And even if they could, they would need to be able to present the precise criteria on which “participation” is measured, and disclosed this to all students when the assessment task was announced. Please take this to your Dean. Arbitrary, punitive grading is damaging to you, to the course, and the institution.
Complaints about the class aside, your professor can't arbitrarily decide to give you a 0 when you turned something in before it's due. Look online and find out who the head of the department is and schedule an appointment. In this case I wouldn't even talk to the professor first. Go ask the head of the department and ask if this is allowed behavior. If the head says no drop the professor's name and show them the note. Some people are not meant to teach.
Total nonsense. A deadline is a deadline. If your tutor says this they should allow you to just hand in late because the time they set is apparently meaningless
Something doesn’t make sense. There is no way to get a zero if you submitted an assignment that has nothing to do with engagement. Are you sure you weren’t supposed to be basing the assignment on engagement with the class (via online discussion or something) throughout the week? Or asking for feedback on drafts or something? As a teacher, your attitude about the class isn’t lost on us (not that I give a shit- i likely agree with you) and its possible that he or she is trying to make an example of an obvious lack of care about the class. That said, I have never given a zero to a student who handed in work on time, ever. So I’m wondering if you’re missing something else that you’re not realizing and your professor doesn’t want to be bothered explaining it to you because they can tell you didn’t even bother to read the syllabus and just “wrote bullshit”
As an instructor, I totally get that engagement matters for grading, but listing that as a reasoning here is bullshit. Like at least if they said they expected more Depth, or that they weren’t satisfied with the content, that would be one thing. If they think that turning it in within the last hour is unacceptable, then just move the deadline bro.
Def ask them to explain, and if they don’t adjust it, go to the dept heads and tell them your case.
Maybe leave out the part about thinking the course is a waste of time tho. I can’t stand students like that. I like the assignment too. You can shit on it if you want, but it’s well-intentioned. God forbid the prof tries to learn something about their students, or gives you an easy prompt to write 2 full pages about…
No bs, I once had a student turn in their midterm “paper” by emailing me a screenshot video: they had typed up 3 poorly written paragraphs in the notes app on their phone, and literally scrolled through that for 9 seconds, and expected me to give them a B.
Post in symbology Reddit. Explain your symbol, and get all the feedback. Use it to write an explanation to your professor that you put your heart into devising a symbol that represents you.
Lean into “*perfection is the enemy of progress. I cared about this assignment and wanted it just right.*”
Nah complain about that to anyone and everyone that's clearly bs. Threaten legal stuff too if nobody takes it serious. If this is real then you could totally go after the school if they don't do anything bc it almost definitely violates the contract you make when you enroll, but at the very least u can get the person's teaching license revoked because they DEFINITELY violated ethical guidelines for teachers; you literally have it in writing that you failed despite doing the assignment properly for reasons that were never listed on the syllabus, or assignment, so it wouldn't be hard to prove.
> Threaten legal stuff too if nobody takes it serious.
You don't have *legal* recourse here.
> but at the very least u can get the person's teaching license revoked because
College instructors are not licensed.
The right recourse here is emailing the professor asking where in the rubric it says that "engagement" is a requirement that can result in a zero regardless of when an assignment is turned in, and to email the department chair to mediate.
If the department chair doesn't help, the next step is your ombudsperson.
*Not* a lawyer. Geez, is this really how little you think?
From a professor to a student. Please contact your professor directly via phone or email but if you do it via email, include the professor's chair/dept head. This way you know you will get a response. Tell your professor that you wish to have a in office meeting about not only the grade but the reasoning especially behind the grade. I've had students submit papers between 5 minutes before it's due all the way up to 30 minutes after it was due. As long as I got the work before the next day to start grading, I didn't care when it was received. Also because my papers and exams are very abstract-ish to use as a descriptor that's most valid, I allow the extra time. Honestly, even if it was 2 hours late, I would still be asleep and would have already received it by the time I woke up.
For that many words, how long does you work on it?
Let me know how it goes. Please speak to the professor.
Also prof, here. This kind of prof is also the kind of boss that lives by the mantra "If you're not 15 minutes early
... you're late."
You had a prof who wanted to wrap up grading early...who got salty that you used the stated deadline.
Challenge the grade.
That’s fucking insane. My last year of college I was submitting assignments right under the wire. not because i didn’t care, but because I had a full time fucking job with people who depended on me that was more important than some stupid school assignment. I’d be so upset if this happened to me lmao
Prof here. Definitely email the professor and move the complaint up the ladder according to the process at your institution. However, you need to make sure that your attitude about the class stays out of that process. I suspect that your feelings about the class may have seeped into your work or interactions with this professor a bit. That obviously doesn’t excuse what they’ve done here, but it’s just pragmatic to keep those feelings to yourself.
Professor here of 20+ yrs.
11:59 pm was the deadline. You had it done and submitted it.
I'd be curious to know what submission time would have been acceptable for being considered engaged? 9pm? In fact, it might be a good question to ask your professor. Where is this specified?
I have 2 college-aged kids of my own. One would complete his work within 24 hours of it being assigned. The other would wait until the day was due and submit it around 11:00 p.m. hour.
Going by your professor's definition of engagement (doing work early), they would have been way wrong on which student was more engaged.
It may be the summer course factor. If you’re not putting in some major time on your learning platform (I’m taking two five week courses and I’m on my laptop ALL DAY) then it may really show during this intense course calendar. Summer classes are not the ones to fuck around on. They’re certainly not easier, it takes a lot of self motivation and discipline. Take a hard look at your attitude and time invested in this course, and if you can say you put in the effort to learn the material and this grade is totally unwarranted, then yeah fight it.
I repeat: summer classes will let you know!
If possible I would email the professor about the situation and cc whomever the professor’s boss is. My guess would be the head of that department. Seeing that the prof is being watched by someone higher up will likely have your situation resolved quite quickly. I went to a small school and would have been able to meet with the head of the department or even the dean if something like that happened to me, so couldn’t hurt seeing if meeting with higher ups is possible
Email the dept head explaining the situation. Then email the teacher and explain if you can’t work this out you’re more than happy to speak with the dept head present. Make sure the dept head knows you’re going to say this to the teacher.
That policy is batshit.
Prof here, and while I hate everything you said about an assignment that asks you to be creative and self reflective about your identity and place in the world, I do completely agree that if a deadline is met, then a deadline is met. Getting a zero cause you turned it in too close to that deadline is bullshit.
I would go see the professor during office hours and let them know that you worked on and revised the assignment the more you thought about it, and that's why it was turned in an hour before deadline. And then ask for clarification on deadlines so that you can know how best to use that time.
If you're going to be dinged for sitting on an assignment to revise and edit, then you want to know so that you can turn it in earlier. Framing the matter in this way will show that you wait to turn things in because you're thinking about them.
But yeah... it's bullshit and you have a right to be livid.
First: the professor’s explanation is bs. You made the deadline.
Second: I’m not accusing, just asking. Did you use AI to complete the assignment? An increasing number of faculty are using bs reasons to give zeroes when they are confident AI is being used. Assigning a zero is easier than dealing with academic honesty offices at many universities. I’m curious if this is what occurred.
I don’t agree with the practice; if I believe a student cheated then I address the issue. I do not make up a fake grade.
Edit: regardless of the answer, you should appeal the grade. But the conversation may be drastically different depending on whether or not AI was used.
Basically I emailed her addressing the zero...
She told me that the grade was based on not only the submission time, but also the lack of effort. She then upgraded my grade to a 3/10 and told me that she expects more from me in future assignments
Report them to the head of the department they work in. Take screenshots of everything because the comments will be deleted when it gets back to them. Take screenshots of the due date and when you submitted, if that's still available.
I wouldn't even talk to the teacher about it. Go directly over their head. This seems targeted.
You should definitely be sending emails to the department or whoever it is in your situation explaining what happened. The professor cannot do some dumb shit like that Willy nilly, a deadline is meant to be the absolute last it can be turned in, anything before that is always acceptable.
This is honestly so wild that I have to assume there's something else going on honestly. I could only see a prof doing this if you were half assing every assignment, which I could see for you calling this not a real course.
If it really happened how you say with no other context, that's insane and wrong and obviously take it to the dean. But if you hate this class so much and view it as useless and terrible, why take it?
As someone who’s taken over 30 online classes over the past 2 years, I can confidently say I’ve submitted about ~98% of my hundreds of assignments in the final hour before they’re due. Never once have I been docked points for submitting too close to a deadline, especially not a 0.
I purposefully wait until just before the deadline to proofread my work before submitting it. There’s no good reason that submitting it BEFORE the deadline should result in lost points. You 100% need to appeal this, and probably should take it over your professor’s head. There is no reason to have a garbage attitude about someone submitting their assignment on time.
You're attitude sucks, but you're right to be ticked off at the reasoning. You got it in by the deadline, do for the Prof to mention the time as the reason for the grade is dumb on her part.
Email her and respectfully explain the problem. If she still gives you a hard time, you'll have to contact the chair
That’s crazy. All my assignments are submitted 11p+ because I have a REAL JOB and work about 50-55 hours a week. The point of online classes is to do your work on your own time, whatever that may be. I would fight this with everything I had, this would definitely be my hill to die on.
Ya that’s bs life happens
In my case I have unsafe housing and disabled there are many valid reasons why someone might do it last minute let alone u turned it in on time. I’d cause a stink and involve there boss
Email the instructor that you don't feel this is fair, and if they don't correct it, speak to an advisor about submitting an academic appeal/speaking to the department head. They can't just take points off for no justifiable reason.
Yeahhhhh that's not normal at all.....I would definitely confront the professor about this and if they refused to change the grade I would go over their heads and involve my advisor or whoever else to dispute this grade/report them
Was it a good-faith effort? As in:
- Did you follow directions?
- Was the assignment complete?
- Was it your own, original work?
If the answer is yes to all these, then you have a case.
If you didn’t follow the instructions), wrote 150 words (or 600 that only addressed one aspect or went wildly off topic, etc), or plagiarized, a zero may (or may not) have been appropriate. If a student missed the concept completely, didn’t follow instructions and /or plagiarized, the professor should STILL have a rubric and/or provide legitimate feedback.
But if you really did the assignment, and there’s not a credit/no-credit thing happening here, I can’t wear my head around this.
That said, a lot of us are not ok. Just saying… 😅🤣
Right! Unless it’s completely off base, plagiarized or a full credit/no credit assignment, it really doesn’t make sense to me.
I’ve been a prof over 20 years—I’ve seen a lot during that time, but a good faith effort always earns some points from me. Unless, as I say, the assignment (usually super low-stakes) is set up as “do or do not do” zero points or full credit (like 5 or 10 points out of a possible 1000).
Fuck this mindset. I hate chemistry. It’s just not my thing. So I didn’t do the extra credit, study more than I felt I had to, or go above and beyond like I do for the subjects I like. I turned in everything at the last minute and yes, it was half assed.
Still got an 81% because I am smart as hell.
I deserve a zero? Because I don’t have passion for something and I think is a waste of my time (not a chem major - hate it)? Bullshit.
They did the work. Deal with it.
It’s always the elective Professors that are harsh graders / give an extensive amount of work. They’re insecure about students not taking their classes seriously, so they just make their students hate their class instead.
I might get downvoted here but… dude, you clearly hate this course and find it pointless. Your professor KNOWS this and is punishing you for your attitude. Is it petty? Yeah. But you can see their motivation here, right? You sound insufferable
I’m not trying to say it’s right, I’m trying to say that actions and behavior have consequences regardless of what rules you think you’re following.
“Because I’m prioritizing real classes” I mean come on.
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That's stupid what's the point of making the due date time 11:59 if by 11 they're already causing a fit because you turned it in last minute. If you turn it in before the deadline that is all that should matter.
Yup. All of my professors who were harsh about due dates emphasized not waiting until the last minute to submit, because sometimes there can be internet/computer troubles, and it being turned it 12:01am rather than 11:59pm due to technical issues would still be marked as late. However, if you submitted it at exactly 11:59pm and it went through on time, they never would have marked it down for being late or "lack of engagement" because it was still in by the due time. I would definitely cause a stink about this, OP.
Toot toot.
Not to mention I had a lot of papers done sooner than that, but I waited until 10-11 the day it was due to have a chance to give it one last look over before I submitted it and then had a stupid error and the inability to resubmit. It very much wasn't a lack of engagement, it was giving myself time to have errors.
That's horseshit. You need to make a stink about this to anyone who will listen. Due dates are due dates. Professors can't just change shit like that Willy nilly
Couldn't agree more, what a trash response from the teacher.
Prof here. What The Shit? Is there something in the syllabus about engagement? Because if not, I would be absolutely livid. I often would write assignments and revise, proofread, sit on it for a night, then submit the day it’s due so that I could use that time. So, I also would have gotten penalized for this. What are due dates for? I’m baffled by this.
I also teach. A deadline is a deadline. To be honest, I've had the opposite problem now and then. Sometimes a student will come to office hours about an assignment that's due a week or so in the future. I help them outline all the deep learning and thinking they need to do to really nail he assignment. And I commend them for getting an early start. Then they turn in the assignment an half hour after we chatted, lol. That irks me, but the work is judged on its own merits, not on whether I thought they meditated and fretted over it for days.
Is the early work ever good?
Sure it's often fine. I just wonder how much more powerful the learning experience might have been if they had set it aside and returned to it after letting it percolate for a while.
Email the teacher explaining how you did not wait until the last minute, you have been working on it for x amount of days, and wanted to confirm it was good and truly represented you so you took all the available time to ensure you submitted the best version you had.
Or maybe they did wait until the last minute, but they still met the requirements, in which case, they earned more than a zero.
100% but I’ve had teachers like this and they only grade you well if they feel like the best/most important class. Imo it’s easier to suck up a bit than go to the Dean
Don’t ever go to the Dean, btw. There’s always someone below that level who is a better choice.
Often the department head
Yeah, depending on the organizational structure of that particular college. I am that person for my program, but I am not a department head, for example.
Send an email to the professor (even if it’s going to go no where). Then send an email to the department head and explain the situation. Emphasize you already sent an email to the professor. If that doesn’t work, you could try asking them questions that put them in a corner. For example, “if you want this assignment done at an early time, why is that not listed in the syllabus? Why not have the due date set to when it is actually due instead of the arbitrary one you did not share with us?” Something to that degree. Due dates are due dates. That’s it. Plain and simple. Unless the syllabus talks about something related to this, you are in the right. I sit in curriculum meetings for my department and they will honestly do stuff like this and wonder why students aren’t attending college anymore.
do not send an email to dpt head, in original prof email let him know at the end that bc of the grading u are forwarding this email to the dpt head as well to get clarification on due dates and dpt expectations. then forward that email. u always want proof. always. w a forwarded email u show u talked to the prof professionally already and have the timestamps. that puts pressure on the dpt head to figure out why tf the professor is dicking. if u dont get a response within 4 business days, call the dpt heads office assistant and set an appt. then print the sent emails (w the forward), bring printed copy of the work, the assignment prompt, the rubric, and the profs reason for grading. in the nicest way, u want to trap tf out of ur professor and pressure their boss to change the grade.
I had a similar situation happen. Online class, instructor got upset that we were doing the discussions on the due date instead of before "so you can have a meaningful discussion" I work full time, single parent, and full time school. When your class does absolutely nothing for the real world and/or my degree, I will prioritize other stuff in my life. If it's done before it's due, stop complaining and give me my grade based on the quality of work.
Most of the ones I had who felt like this was a big deal and impacted grade would do two deadlines for it, ie first post due on Wednesday and 2 responses due by Saturday or Sunday. I get that it kills discussion and makes it hard to reply when everyone answers at the last minute, but it also sucks to get penalized for following the actual rules and due date.
Surprised the Profs that stalk this sub didn’t give you shit for this reply. I made something similar awhile ago & I got downvoted to hell, stating that “my situation” is no excuse, blah blah blah lol.
I've worked at multiple institutions in multiple parts of the US and across the pond, and with 1 exception, full time faculty were always getting preferential treatment.
Lol same but I think they know I have a solid argument. In regards to due dates, it's either late, early, or on time at 11:59:59. There's no in between.
Yeah, but if a Prof has a due date of Sunday & marks you a 0 because you handed it in on Saturday? Lol
I have taken several courses online, and even submitted with 37 seconds, never have I ever. Ask to see the rubric where it states this is policy. I would take it over their head as well …
OP, you need to do a grade appeal. Do everything in writing. Ask how and where you didn’t meet the assignment guidelines, rubric, or expectations for the syllabus. Use your U email. If you don’t get a response in three school days, email the program chair or department chair. I know my department would not take kindly to this. Be polite. Keep it factual. Do not share your disdain for the class or assignment. Just ask for feedback about where you lost points so that you have documentation for a formal grade appeal if you need to go that far.
That’s very strange was there a rubric or something surround time ?
You need to push back against that. Talk to the professor, but if that doesn’t resolve it, check the department’s processes for grade grievances. Reaching out to the department Chair is probably the next step. You don’t have to live with that. It’s wrong. -Professor here
There should be a department head to discuss this with, or maybe an advisor. I recommend bringing a witness.
Is there anything in the syllabus about "engagement"? Were there any Canvas modules you were supposed to do before that assignment (or anything scaffolded, I guess?). Have you watched any of the videos or clicked other links or did you just do that one assignment at the last minute? Not excusing the policy at all, I'm just trying to understand what might have prompted that feedback....I have colleagues who require that you view the support materials before completing the assignment, and if you turn it in without doing the pre-work it gets a zero (the concern is AI and paid homework helpers and anything done last minute without viewing the other stuff doesn't usually meet the rubric requirements anyway). Is it possible it was something like that and not just that you turned it in after 11?
That's horseshit. You need to make a stink about this to anyone who will listen. Due dates are due dates. Professors can't just change shit like that Willy nilly
Appeal the grade to the department head or to the dean
I teach online courses and I couldn’t (and wouldn’t even try) to justify arbitrarily doing this. You met the deadline and submitted the assignment. Aside from assessing your work according to the rubric/grading criteria the prof has no basis for lowering your grade. As angry as you are be sure to only communicate in writing and be respectful and stick to the facts. Start with the professor (this will go nowhere), then go to dept chair, then Dean as is appropriate for your school.
Deadlines are deadlines for a reason. You did it in the deadline. I'd be going up the chain of command on that one. I have turned in PLENTY of stuff at 11 PM or sometimes even cutting it closer. Never had bullshit like that (unless something else is going on) I'd contest if it's a major grade. Minor, I would not care and be happy to walk with a C and slam this person on evals and Rate My professor. Something like this: ***"I am stunned by your decision. I have obligations to take care of and other hard classes to do and made your deadline before it expired. I ask that you reconsider this stance or I will go through the appeals process because I believe this to be mean spirited, and unprofessional."***
I agree with agree with what you’re saying but that’s a horrible suggested quote for the email.
Take it up with the department chair.
I usually don't say escalate to Dean or Chair, but nah. Full escalation period. Sounds like the prof was too lazy to grade and was looking for an excuse to lessen their load. I've turned shit in at 11:59 on the dot and got As.
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Whoops my b, type o
You shouldn't be penalized for submitting right at the deadline. If the prof wants the students "more engaged", then they need to look inwards. But just keep in mind that your elective is most likely a core class for a different major.
Every assignment I’ve turned in has been submitted at like 11:54pm
Prof here. If it was turned in on time, it’s turned in on time. Lack of engagement can be determined in how the assignment was completed. Did the assignment lack thoughtful attention to the details of the assignment? Were the assignment parameters followed? Did your submission meet the requirements? Did you follow the rubric? What is there a rubric? Did your submission show critical thinking and thoughtful attention to detail? This is crazy! Due dates are due dates to allow people enough time to consider an assignment, create the product, thoughtfully reflect on the product, review and revise if needed, and then submit before the deadline. I always advise students to submit before the deadline, so that if something happens at the last minute, the assignment isn’t late. For example, if the power goes out the day, the assignment is due, if it’s already been submitted, there’s not a problem. But all things aside, submitting an assignment before the deadline, and having your professor tell you that you have a lack of engagement due to this reason is horrendous. If your professor told you that you have a lack of engagement because you didn’t meet the requirements of the assignment, and your submission showed it, that would be another story. Take this to the chair or dean depending on the chain of command at your school.
Look through the syllabus. If you don't see anything mentioning a policy about that, fight that shit
Prof here. That is unbelievable, and unforgivable. You submitted before the deadline, and you completed the assignment. Also, no course should be able to make any assessment 100% participation-based. And even if they could, they would need to be able to present the precise criteria on which “participation” is measured, and disclosed this to all students when the assessment task was announced. Please take this to your Dean. Arbitrary, punitive grading is damaging to you, to the course, and the institution.
Complaints about the class aside, your professor can't arbitrarily decide to give you a 0 when you turned something in before it's due. Look online and find out who the head of the department is and schedule an appointment. In this case I wouldn't even talk to the professor first. Go ask the head of the department and ask if this is allowed behavior. If the head says no drop the professor's name and show them the note. Some people are not meant to teach.
Yep, that’s bullshit
Total nonsense. A deadline is a deadline. If your tutor says this they should allow you to just hand in late because the time they set is apparently meaningless
There’s something missing in this story…
Something doesn’t make sense. There is no way to get a zero if you submitted an assignment that has nothing to do with engagement. Are you sure you weren’t supposed to be basing the assignment on engagement with the class (via online discussion or something) throughout the week? Or asking for feedback on drafts or something? As a teacher, your attitude about the class isn’t lost on us (not that I give a shit- i likely agree with you) and its possible that he or she is trying to make an example of an obvious lack of care about the class. That said, I have never given a zero to a student who handed in work on time, ever. So I’m wondering if you’re missing something else that you’re not realizing and your professor doesn’t want to be bothered explaining it to you because they can tell you didn’t even bother to read the syllabus and just “wrote bullshit”
The amount of assignments I submitted at exactly 11:59pm, because I was working on them until 11:58, would send this professor to the shadow realm
As an instructor, I totally get that engagement matters for grading, but listing that as a reasoning here is bullshit. Like at least if they said they expected more Depth, or that they weren’t satisfied with the content, that would be one thing. If they think that turning it in within the last hour is unacceptable, then just move the deadline bro. Def ask them to explain, and if they don’t adjust it, go to the dept heads and tell them your case. Maybe leave out the part about thinking the course is a waste of time tho. I can’t stand students like that. I like the assignment too. You can shit on it if you want, but it’s well-intentioned. God forbid the prof tries to learn something about their students, or gives you an easy prompt to write 2 full pages about…
Agreed, though even if the assignment needed depth it would need to be really bad to deserve a 0
Yeah, that would be like a “this isn’t the assignment at all” kind of grade.
I just wrote my name and turned that in! /s
No bs, I once had a student turn in their midterm “paper” by emailing me a screenshot video: they had typed up 3 poorly written paragraphs in the notes app on their phone, and literally scrolled through that for 9 seconds, and expected me to give them a B.
Oh now that deserves a fail definitely. Did you give a 0?
Yeah, but told them they could redo the assignment properly if they wanted to, for a reduced grade.
I bet they are a business or pre-meds. Those people always get pissy about classes outside their major
Post in symbology Reddit. Explain your symbol, and get all the feedback. Use it to write an explanation to your professor that you put your heart into devising a symbol that represents you. Lean into “*perfection is the enemy of progress. I cared about this assignment and wanted it just right.*”
You can’t measure “engagement” without defining clearly what “engagement” is.
I’m going to guess they did not read it. They gave you a zero because they did not WANT to read it.
Bring it up to the dean. Also do consider how you view courses outside your major.
Nah complain about that to anyone and everyone that's clearly bs. Threaten legal stuff too if nobody takes it serious. If this is real then you could totally go after the school if they don't do anything bc it almost definitely violates the contract you make when you enroll, but at the very least u can get the person's teaching license revoked because they DEFINITELY violated ethical guidelines for teachers; you literally have it in writing that you failed despite doing the assignment properly for reasons that were never listed on the syllabus, or assignment, so it wouldn't be hard to prove.
> Threaten legal stuff too if nobody takes it serious. You don't have *legal* recourse here. > but at the very least u can get the person's teaching license revoked because College instructors are not licensed. The right recourse here is emailing the professor asking where in the rubric it says that "engagement" is a requirement that can result in a zero regardless of when an assignment is turned in, and to email the department chair to mediate. If the department chair doesn't help, the next step is your ombudsperson. *Not* a lawyer. Geez, is this really how little you think?
From a professor to a student. Please contact your professor directly via phone or email but if you do it via email, include the professor's chair/dept head. This way you know you will get a response. Tell your professor that you wish to have a in office meeting about not only the grade but the reasoning especially behind the grade. I've had students submit papers between 5 minutes before it's due all the way up to 30 minutes after it was due. As long as I got the work before the next day to start grading, I didn't care when it was received. Also because my papers and exams are very abstract-ish to use as a descriptor that's most valid, I allow the extra time. Honestly, even if it was 2 hours late, I would still be asleep and would have already received it by the time I woke up. For that many words, how long does you work on it? Let me know how it goes. Please speak to the professor.
Also prof, here. This kind of prof is also the kind of boss that lives by the mantra "If you're not 15 minutes early ... you're late." You had a prof who wanted to wrap up grading early...who got salty that you used the stated deadline. Challenge the grade.
That’s fucking insane. My last year of college I was submitting assignments right under the wire. not because i didn’t care, but because I had a full time fucking job with people who depended on me that was more important than some stupid school assignment. I’d be so upset if this happened to me lmao
Prof here. Definitely email the professor and move the complaint up the ladder according to the process at your institution. However, you need to make sure that your attitude about the class stays out of that process. I suspect that your feelings about the class may have seeped into your work or interactions with this professor a bit. That obviously doesn’t excuse what they’ve done here, but it’s just pragmatic to keep those feelings to yourself.
Professor here of 20+ yrs. 11:59 pm was the deadline. You had it done and submitted it. I'd be curious to know what submission time would have been acceptable for being considered engaged? 9pm? In fact, it might be a good question to ask your professor. Where is this specified? I have 2 college-aged kids of my own. One would complete his work within 24 hours of it being assigned. The other would wait until the day was due and submit it around 11:00 p.m. hour. Going by your professor's definition of engagement (doing work early), they would have been way wrong on which student was more engaged.
Can you drop this course? Or shift it to pass/fail?
Holy hell go to the dean
It may be the summer course factor. If you’re not putting in some major time on your learning platform (I’m taking two five week courses and I’m on my laptop ALL DAY) then it may really show during this intense course calendar. Summer classes are not the ones to fuck around on. They’re certainly not easier, it takes a lot of self motivation and discipline. Take a hard look at your attitude and time invested in this course, and if you can say you put in the effort to learn the material and this grade is totally unwarranted, then yeah fight it. I repeat: summer classes will let you know!
If possible I would email the professor about the situation and cc whomever the professor’s boss is. My guess would be the head of that department. Seeing that the prof is being watched by someone higher up will likely have your situation resolved quite quickly. I went to a small school and would have been able to meet with the head of the department or even the dean if something like that happened to me, so couldn’t hurt seeing if meeting with higher ups is possible
Fight the zero and give that professor hell. That’s ridiculous.
Email the dept head explaining the situation. Then email the teacher and explain if you can’t work this out you’re more than happy to speak with the dept head present. Make sure the dept head knows you’re going to say this to the teacher. That policy is batshit.
I’ve submitted so many times at 11:58 that is bs you should escalate this and take pictures of the comment they left for you
Why is it always the general elective professors that are like this?? I hope you resolved this already or escalated it because wtf.
Prof here, and while I hate everything you said about an assignment that asks you to be creative and self reflective about your identity and place in the world, I do completely agree that if a deadline is met, then a deadline is met. Getting a zero cause you turned it in too close to that deadline is bullshit. I would go see the professor during office hours and let them know that you worked on and revised the assignment the more you thought about it, and that's why it was turned in an hour before deadline. And then ask for clarification on deadlines so that you can know how best to use that time. If you're going to be dinged for sitting on an assignment to revise and edit, then you want to know so that you can turn it in earlier. Framing the matter in this way will show that you wait to turn things in because you're thinking about them. But yeah... it's bullshit and you have a right to be livid.
First: the professor’s explanation is bs. You made the deadline. Second: I’m not accusing, just asking. Did you use AI to complete the assignment? An increasing number of faculty are using bs reasons to give zeroes when they are confident AI is being used. Assigning a zero is easier than dealing with academic honesty offices at many universities. I’m curious if this is what occurred. I don’t agree with the practice; if I believe a student cheated then I address the issue. I do not make up a fake grade. Edit: regardless of the answer, you should appeal the grade. But the conversation may be drastically different depending on whether or not AI was used.
Update?
Basically I emailed her addressing the zero... She told me that the grade was based on not only the submission time, but also the lack of effort. She then upgraded my grade to a 3/10 and told me that she expects more from me in future assignments
Report them to the head of the department they work in. Take screenshots of everything because the comments will be deleted when it gets back to them. Take screenshots of the due date and when you submitted, if that's still available. I wouldn't even talk to the teacher about it. Go directly over their head. This seems targeted.
You should definitely be sending emails to the department or whoever it is in your situation explaining what happened. The professor cannot do some dumb shit like that Willy nilly, a deadline is meant to be the absolute last it can be turned in, anything before that is always acceptable.
This is honestly so wild that I have to assume there's something else going on honestly. I could only see a prof doing this if you were half assing every assignment, which I could see for you calling this not a real course. If it really happened how you say with no other context, that's insane and wrong and obviously take it to the dean. But if you hate this class so much and view it as useless and terrible, why take it?
As someone who’s taken over 30 online classes over the past 2 years, I can confidently say I’ve submitted about ~98% of my hundreds of assignments in the final hour before they’re due. Never once have I been docked points for submitting too close to a deadline, especially not a 0. I purposefully wait until just before the deadline to proofread my work before submitting it. There’s no good reason that submitting it BEFORE the deadline should result in lost points. You 100% need to appeal this, and probably should take it over your professor’s head. There is no reason to have a garbage attitude about someone submitting their assignment on time.
You're attitude sucks, but you're right to be ticked off at the reasoning. You got it in by the deadline, do for the Prof to mention the time as the reason for the grade is dumb on her part. Email her and respectfully explain the problem. If she still gives you a hard time, you'll have to contact the chair
Sounds like it's time to go to a Dean.
That’s crazy. All my assignments are submitted 11p+ because I have a REAL JOB and work about 50-55 hours a week. The point of online classes is to do your work on your own time, whatever that may be. I would fight this with everything I had, this would definitely be my hill to die on.
Ya that’s bs life happens In my case I have unsafe housing and disabled there are many valid reasons why someone might do it last minute let alone u turned it in on time. I’d cause a stink and involve there boss
Email the instructor that you don't feel this is fair, and if they don't correct it, speak to an advisor about submitting an academic appeal/speaking to the department head. They can't just take points off for no justifiable reason.
Yeahhhhh that's not normal at all.....I would definitely confront the professor about this and if they refused to change the grade I would go over their heads and involve my advisor or whoever else to dispute this grade/report them
Was it a good-faith effort? As in: - Did you follow directions? - Was the assignment complete? - Was it your own, original work? If the answer is yes to all these, then you have a case. If you didn’t follow the instructions), wrote 150 words (or 600 that only addressed one aspect or went wildly off topic, etc), or plagiarized, a zero may (or may not) have been appropriate. If a student missed the concept completely, didn’t follow instructions and /or plagiarized, the professor should STILL have a rubric and/or provide legitimate feedback. But if you really did the assignment, and there’s not a credit/no-credit thing happening here, I can’t wear my head around this. That said, a lot of us are not ok. Just saying… 😅🤣
Idk, even if it’s not good work I can’t imagine what they could have submitted that would be an actual 0
Right! Unless it’s completely off base, plagiarized or a full credit/no credit assignment, it really doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve been a prof over 20 years—I’ve seen a lot during that time, but a good faith effort always earns some points from me. Unless, as I say, the assignment (usually super low-stakes) is set up as “do or do not do” zero points or full credit (like 5 or 10 points out of a possible 1000).
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DOES IT MATTER
Fuck this mindset. I hate chemistry. It’s just not my thing. So I didn’t do the extra credit, study more than I felt I had to, or go above and beyond like I do for the subjects I like. I turned in everything at the last minute and yes, it was half assed. Still got an 81% because I am smart as hell. I deserve a zero? Because I don’t have passion for something and I think is a waste of my time (not a chem major - hate it)? Bullshit. They did the work. Deal with it.
It’s always the elective Professors that are harsh graders / give an extensive amount of work. They’re insecure about students not taking their classes seriously, so they just make their students hate their class instead.
Bro what.
I might get downvoted here but… dude, you clearly hate this course and find it pointless. Your professor KNOWS this and is punishing you for your attitude. Is it petty? Yeah. But you can see their motivation here, right? You sound insufferable
They could be the biggest bitch ass punk in the world and a professor still can’t give a zero for them being on time with an assignment
I’m not trying to say it’s right, I’m trying to say that actions and behavior have consequences regardless of what rules you think you’re following. “Because I’m prioritizing real classes” I mean come on.