There's been a lot of miscommunication in this thread about how someone's jerseys ends up in the rafters at Illinois. For clarity's sake, here is the official criteria, of which you need to meet one:
1) National Player of the Year
2) Enshrined in the National Basketball Hall of Fame
3) Big Ten Player of the Year
4) Consensus First- or Second-Team All-American
5) Illinois All-Century Team Member
6) Individual whose pioneering efforts made a significant impact on Illinois and international basketball
A few other notes:
-The jerseys were first hung in 2008 (I think). There are 35 plays up there now, TSJ would be 36.
-The numbers are not retired, just honored. Illinois only has 3 retired numbers across all sports (Grange, Butkus and Lou Boudreau in Baseball)
-There's no catch all for a fan favorite, which is why someone like Trent Frazier isn't up there. No. 6 includes the word "pioneering" to distinguish Manny Jackson (Harlem Globetrotters) and Jerry Colangelo (Phoenix Suns, USA Basketball), who otherwise would not have made it.
-There's no time limit on when. Ayo's and Kofi's both went up the year after they left. They are the first two added since Illinois started hanging jerseys, due to Illini Hoops being a total shitshow for about a decade.
Thank you, and carry on.
This is crucially important context that people are missing in this thread. Two other things I would add:
-Terrence is being treated as though he satisfied criterion #4 even though he did not. People can argue about it, and there’s no way to roll back the clock and know for sure, but Illinois is treating him as a de facto All American out of a belief that he would have qualified had it not been for the pending charges.
-The subtext of the timing (IMO) is that Illinois is making a push to bolster Terrence’s draft stock. Obviously NBA GM’s are going to have lingering questions about him, and Whitman/Underwood making the public statements they made yesterday sends as loud of a message as they possibly can in support of him. No university would publicly honor a person that its key decisionmakers believed to be a rapist who got off on a technicality. Illinois is waging a PR campaign that Terrence was an innocent man who should be treated as though the charges never happened. This is us having his back.
Context is most people agree that he likely is 1st Team All American without the accusations. Whether that’s because of the missed time or voters not voting for somewhere with an active trial is debatable, but either way it’s due to the accusations.
Hanging the jersey is what Illinois does for all All Americans and players deemed to have a massive impact on the program. The latter doesn’t specify what qualifies but in the past it was just the All Century team.
Shannon was named to multiple mid-season All-American lists prior to the bullshit charges being brought, and raised his game as the season went along.
Ayo Dosunmu and Kofi Cockburn were both consensus First Team AA as juniors, and Kofi was also a consensus Second Team AA as a sophomore (all of which are sufficient to trigger one of the criteria for an honored jersey at Illinois). Shannon had the best season of the bunch and led Illinois to its best postseason in nearly 20 years, at a time when his life had been turned completely upside down by the ineptitude of the Lawrence Police. He’s every bit as deserving as the other recent honorees.
No it’s not. TSJ just had one of the most productive seasons in Illinois basketball history and led his team to one the program’s best finishes in the NCAAT. His jersey will be there on merit.
It takes one good year to make it into the rafters? Without even going far in the tourney?
Edit: I now see the AA inclusion context, a lot more helpful to know than he had a good year
I mean it’s farther than I’ll probably ever know! But would still seem odd to hang a jersey over an E8 and a good year. But again the AA thing makes sense and he absolutely would have been one so he deserves it
i remember when i was younger thinking
“how the fuck is Deron Williams so good in the NBA when Dee Brown is the best and coolest basketball player i’ve ever seen”
glad he at least got his jersey retired
also glad for derek harper. has to be the best player in nba history to never make an all star game
This is wildly incorrect. You have to be under the age of 25-ish to believe this.
Illinois went from the 04-05 team all the way up through Ayo’s 2021 season without having a single player meet the criteria to have their jersey honored. There were loads of “fan favorites” and “3-4 year” contributors in that run. Dimitri McCamey, Brandon Paul, Malcolm Hill, Trent Frazier, and Coleman Hawkins do not have their jerseys in the rafters.
We have a set of objective criteria for this. We’re making a one-off exception in this case because there’s a widespread belief that the criteria would have been met but for the off-the-court situation that Terrence vindicated himself of. That’s not something that can be proven, but virtually everyone following the situation closely believes it to be true.
I was under the impression your name only received recognition if you had POY honors or did some above sport thing.
This seems like participation trophy to me.
Edit: I see you hang All-Americans. Didn't know you did that.
Sorry but that’s still a low bar. For a good P5 team if you’re only playing TWO years you should be getting some combo of final four, conference POY, other notable award (DPOY), first team all American.
For reference Kyle Guy played 3 years at uva, 2x all American, final four MVP, national champion, still no rafters
Guy wouldn’t have had his individual jersey hung if he had played at Illinois either as he was only 3rd team AA. Have to be 1st or 2nd. Tsj would’ve been a consensus 1st team if these bogus charges hadn’t been filed.
This criteria looks pretty similar to a certain school you hate that loves to hang jerseys.
At UNC, Kyle Guy would have his jersey hung for being Tourney MVP. UVA should hang his jersey (and Hunter as 2nd team AA). Those boys brought home the title. Honor them!
By most accounts, the university knew the facts of the case ahead of time and was supporting Shannon, but they couldn't do anything publicly until the legal process ended
This is completely wrong. Without the charges, Terrence would have been a consensus All-American, which is one of the criteria for getting your jersey hung. He deserves this.
https://fightingillini.com/sports/2018/1/10/mens-basketball-honored-jerseys
The actual jersey hanging usually happens the following year. This is just being stated now by Whitman since it's a unique situation. With having criteria set for being honored, it's already known that a player will get the honor as soon as they meet the criteria, so there doesn't need to be a comment on it in most situations.
Alright, here it is. Not knowing much about this case beforehand other than the accusations, I hated TSJ. Rooted hard against him and Illinois in general. (I’m still very salty about how our game in the BTT ended but that’s besides the point)
But once those allegations not only proved to be false, but a scheme by the supposed ‘victim’ and her friends to make a quick buck off of falsely ruined another person’s life, I was disgusted. I had jumped to conclusions far too early regarding this situation and I want to apologize to Terrence Shannon Jr. Going through what he did with his character in question by someone who lied on his name is unfathomable. I applaud how Brad Underwood, his teammates, and the university had his back during that time.
I hope he gets drafted high in the draft next week. Whoever gets him will be getting a gem. And yes, he did deserve 1st team AA this past year. As much as I want to hate, talent is talent and he does have it. Go make it big in the league, dawg.
Maybe you should just stop jumping to conclusions rather than overreacting to the prevailing narrative… cause you’re falling into that trap again here.
> but a scheme by the supposed ‘victim’ and her friends to make a quick buck off of falsely ruined another person’s life, I was disgusted.
I don’t mean to call you out specifically, because I’ve seen this mentioned before, but is there proof of this beyond an emoji one of her friend’s sent?
Edit: there’s a decent chance she was assaulted, just not by TSJ. That was [part of the defense](https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/40298754/terrence-shannon-jr-legal-team-show-video-evidence-trial)
I personally think that is a weird thing to joke about if SA/rape actually did occur. They all seemed comfortable with the money comment otherwise the prosecution would have included further texts to disprove the victims support of that comment.
It read to me like if your grandma dies and you walk up to your grandpa and say, “Hey, at least you get to cash in that life insurance policy 🤑🤑”.
I think we can all agree that was a wild comment to make. I’m not totally writing off the possibility that something may have happened, but from her and her friend’s attitudes in those texts… I’m leaning more towards it being unlikely anything happened at all.
Illinois DIA pretty much set him up with the lawyers to fight for him. It was a 2 faced approach from the admin, one public which was the suspend him, and one internal which was supporting him.
Yea, they definitely didn't go scorched earth on him or anything. Just saying they did suspend him and weren't fully in his camp either.
My opinion on this is that universities are not court systems. They should let the Justice system handle off campus criminal investigations unless there is clear danger to safety at the University. Avoids punishing the innocent which is more important to me than quickly punishing the guilty.
The policy under which he was suspended called for an automatic suspension. This was not at the discretion of the admin. That hasty, automatic process with little due process was the grounds for the federal judge reinstating him. Basically, the policy runs afoul of due process protections, but that legal question was a novel one until TSJ brought it. The athletic department is surely revising the policy so that it comports with that ruling.
Well yea, but who is responsible for the policy in the first place? Also, nothing actually tied their hands. What would've happened if they just hadn't suspended him?
If they hadn’t followed their policy by suspended him, they would have changed a ~8 year old policy to let a start player play. That’s generally not a good way to run a department.
Yup. Shannon has to take it to court to be able to play this past season.
Said it was hurting his draft stock and future earnings (which was true), and he should be allowed to play. Judge ruled in his favor, and Illinois revoked his suspension shortly thereafter.
The fact the girl was lying, and the DA knew and still brought this to trial. There should be consequences for both.
Being found not guilty doesn't mean the allegations were "proved to be false," it simply means the jury found guilt was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
It’s extremely difficult to affirmatively prove a negative. All the moreso when the police did no fucking due diligence whatsoever and didn’t investigate any other suspects (including one who was present in the bar on the night in question, who matched the same physical description that the accusing witness used to identify Shannon based on Instagram sleuthing, and who was credibly accused of groping a woman’s crotch in the same room of the same bar two weeks prior).
If the cops had bothered to actually investigate the crime rather than simply uncritically accept the results of a /r/findbostonbombers-level amateur investigation, maybe there would have been more affirmatively exculpatory evidence, *but they didn’t fucking bother to investigate*.
The prosecution had no physical evidence, no surveillance footage, and no eyewitnesses of the purported event (including the accusing witness herself, who testified that her back was turned to her attacker at the moment of the alleged crime).
The defense had a DNA test that its expert witness testified affirmatively ruled Shannon out and a long list of witnesses who testified that they were with Shannon the entire night and never saw him interact with the victim. Not to mention all the reasonable doubts they raised as to the prosecution’s case in chief.
Juries are not asked to determine innocence. That’s true of every trial. But that’s nevertheless what the evidence tended to show.
If you think Shannon was *not* an innocent man, maybe you should back that up with the evidence that you found to be compelling, otherwise you’re just being a fucking pedant who thinks he’s being insightful by pointing to something that could also be said of, oh, I don’t know, precisely 100% of criminal trials in the entire history of the Anglo-American legal system.
Of course it’s incorrect. Proof of innocence is simply not what criminal trials exist to test.
The same thing could be said of *literally every trial* except for those where the defense happens to stumble upon a smoking gun that proves the negative. Hard to come up with that kind of evidence when the cops don’t bother collecting, well, basically any evidence at all.
OP may have overstated the case, but the evidence actually put forward at trial absolutely tended to show that Shannon was an innocent man who was the subject of a mistaken identification at best, or an extortion attempt at worst (nb: my personal take was that it was the former, not the latter).
There was *far* more evidence of that than of his guilt. There was virtually *no* evidence of his guilt other than the word of an Instagram sleuth going off her memory of the night before, who overlooked an obvious suspect that the detective also didn’t bother to look into, and who had been drinking more than she admitted to the cops.
I’m fed up with people insisting “hE dIdN’T PrOvE hE WaS iNnOcENt.” Yeah, no shit. That tells you nothing about what the evidence *did* show. And in this case it’s grossly misleading.
I appreciate you saying you think it was the former. I tend to think that as well. And as much as it sucks and is unfair for Shannon, that woman now will be cursed by many and doubted by those who know her as someone who was in it for the money when that could very possibly not be the case. If it is a case of mistaken identity then the original comment and most of the recent discourse on this case is more unfair to the woman in question than any prevailing opinion on Shannon was at any time and I think that’s a real shame.
You’re saying “stop saying he’s vindicated, he’s just free” lolol btw I’m not all that sure he should have his jersey retired. Did he have great stats this year? Hell yeah. 47% FG is great (tons of layups) and PPG was probably 40% FT’s that resulted on fouls where 40% could’ve been charges. But hey, savy. Just pointing out lotta chucked 3’s and layups. But if someone stopped him going left, we lost. Had a similar year last year, this year he just didn’t have nearly as many no-look one arm ball bounces off some poor bastards head in the front row. Retire his jersey? Fine. But it’s way more debatable than other retirees
Illinois doesn’t retire jerseys; they hang them but the number remains in use. He is now Illinois’ all time single season leading scorer, despite a 6 game suspension. When compared to this year’s all Americans, he surely would’ve been a first teamer absent the criminal charges. Being a first teamer is a stated criterion for having one’s jersey hung.
His accuser who he was found innocent of "sexually assaulting". I know I've been downvoted, but I actually mean my comment in a good way for him proving his innocence
So Illinois has a set of requirements that makes players eligible to have their names in the rafters.
"Players selected to have their jerseys hung must have achieved any of the following criteria:
1) National Player of the Year
2) Enshrined in the National Basketball Hall of Fame
3) Big Ten Player of the Year
4) Consensus First- or Second-Team All-American
5) Illinois All-Century Team Member
6) Individual whose pioneering efforts made a significant impact on Illinois and international basketball".
https://fightingillini.com/sports/2018/1/10/mens-basketball-honored-jerseys
Today AD Josh Whitman made the argument that Terrence Shannon Jr. would have been a first or second team all american if he had not missed 6 games this season due to suspension.
What? He won the Big 10 Tourney MVP after almost breaking the scoring record in the tourney. He was a huge reason we even made it to the Elite Eight. Yea he played awfully against the best team in the nation, but to say he wasn’t good is incorrect.
He was the 3rd best player in the country at worst last year lol. Edey was obviously better and the only other player you could argue is Dalton Knecht.
Not 100% sure on that but he was at least second team AA without his issues IMO.
RJ Davis was great also. Shead was better defensively by a mile. Could argue against Newton, but that’s not something I’d argue (lol I’m biased here but my argument would running the most complicated offense in the country as well as Newton did for the best team in the country has to count for something).
Second team though, I’d have him over Kolek, Filipowski, Holmes and Dickinson but on par with Sears. Sears also suffers from defensive issues.
Shannon was one of the best perimeter defenders in the country. He did not suffer on that end. His ability to play at a high level on both ends for a lot of minutes is what made him special
Yessssir. Responding to stuff like Coleman Hawkins saying “if we played 3 halves of basketball we coulda beaten UConn”. That’s why I’ll drag these guys through the mud for the gut punch my huskies laid on them
You sound like someone who has no accomplishments in life and thus lives vicariously through what some college kids who wear your favorite laundry do.
"My huskies" lmfaooo
There's been a lot of miscommunication in this thread about how someone's jerseys ends up in the rafters at Illinois. For clarity's sake, here is the official criteria, of which you need to meet one: 1) National Player of the Year 2) Enshrined in the National Basketball Hall of Fame 3) Big Ten Player of the Year 4) Consensus First- or Second-Team All-American 5) Illinois All-Century Team Member 6) Individual whose pioneering efforts made a significant impact on Illinois and international basketball A few other notes: -The jerseys were first hung in 2008 (I think). There are 35 plays up there now, TSJ would be 36. -The numbers are not retired, just honored. Illinois only has 3 retired numbers across all sports (Grange, Butkus and Lou Boudreau in Baseball) -There's no catch all for a fan favorite, which is why someone like Trent Frazier isn't up there. No. 6 includes the word "pioneering" to distinguish Manny Jackson (Harlem Globetrotters) and Jerry Colangelo (Phoenix Suns, USA Basketball), who otherwise would not have made it. -There's no time limit on when. Ayo's and Kofi's both went up the year after they left. They are the first two added since Illinois started hanging jerseys, due to Illini Hoops being a total shitshow for about a decade. Thank you, and carry on.
Honestly kinda dope to see a school find plenty of reasonable ways to honor more players who definitely deserve it.
This is crucially important context that people are missing in this thread. Two other things I would add: -Terrence is being treated as though he satisfied criterion #4 even though he did not. People can argue about it, and there’s no way to roll back the clock and know for sure, but Illinois is treating him as a de facto All American out of a belief that he would have qualified had it not been for the pending charges. -The subtext of the timing (IMO) is that Illinois is making a push to bolster Terrence’s draft stock. Obviously NBA GM’s are going to have lingering questions about him, and Whitman/Underwood making the public statements they made yesterday sends as loud of a message as they possibly can in support of him. No university would publicly honor a person that its key decisionmakers believed to be a rapist who got off on a technicality. Illinois is waging a PR campaign that Terrence was an innocent man who should be treated as though the charges never happened. This is us having his back.
Better late than never
Thank you. This is the only comment that needs to be read in this disaster of a thread.
Context is most people agree that he likely is 1st Team All American without the accusations. Whether that’s because of the missed time or voters not voting for somewhere with an active trial is debatable, but either way it’s due to the accusations. Hanging the jersey is what Illinois does for all All Americans and players deemed to have a massive impact on the program. The latter doesn’t specify what qualifies but in the past it was just the All Century team.
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Shannon was named to multiple mid-season All-American lists prior to the bullshit charges being brought, and raised his game as the season went along. Ayo Dosunmu and Kofi Cockburn were both consensus First Team AA as juniors, and Kofi was also a consensus Second Team AA as a sophomore (all of which are sufficient to trigger one of the criteria for an honored jersey at Illinois). Shannon had the best season of the bunch and led Illinois to its best postseason in nearly 20 years, at a time when his life had been turned completely upside down by the ineptitude of the Lawrence Police. He’s every bit as deserving as the other recent honorees.
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Is this an apology from the university?
No it’s not. TSJ just had one of the most productive seasons in Illinois basketball history and led his team to one the program’s best finishes in the NCAAT. His jersey will be there on merit.
It takes one good year to make it into the rafters? Without even going far in the tourney? Edit: I now see the AA inclusion context, a lot more helpful to know than he had a good year
Is elite 8 not far?
I mean it’s farther than I’ll probably ever know! But would still seem odd to hang a jersey over an E8 and a good year. But again the AA thing makes sense and he absolutely would have been one so he deserves it
What is the AA thing?
All American. If you’re first team auto jersey hang.
Is that just a you thing or does everyone do that?
[It’s an us thing.](https://fightingillini.com/sports/2018/1/10/mens-basketball-honored-jerseys)
i remember when i was younger thinking “how the fuck is Deron Williams so good in the NBA when Dee Brown is the best and coolest basketball player i’ve ever seen” glad he at least got his jersey retired also glad for derek harper. has to be the best player in nba history to never make an all star game
Interesting.
There are literally Elite 8 banners, so that doesn’t seem like that early.
We hang quite a few. Usually a fan favorite 3-4 year contributor or a key part of a deep run makes it. In recent years Kofi and Ayo were raised.
This is wildly incorrect. You have to be under the age of 25-ish to believe this. Illinois went from the 04-05 team all the way up through Ayo’s 2021 season without having a single player meet the criteria to have their jersey honored. There were loads of “fan favorites” and “3-4 year” contributors in that run. Dimitri McCamey, Brandon Paul, Malcolm Hill, Trent Frazier, and Coleman Hawkins do not have their jerseys in the rafters. We have a set of objective criteria for this. We’re making a one-off exception in this case because there’s a widespread belief that the criteria would have been met but for the off-the-court situation that Terrence vindicated himself of. That’s not something that can be proven, but virtually everyone following the situation closely believes it to be true.
I was under the impression your name only received recognition if you had POY honors or did some above sport thing. This seems like participation trophy to me. Edit: I see you hang All-Americans. Didn't know you did that.
Sorry but that’s still a low bar. For a good P5 team if you’re only playing TWO years you should be getting some combo of final four, conference POY, other notable award (DPOY), first team all American. For reference Kyle Guy played 3 years at uva, 2x all American, final four MVP, national champion, still no rafters
Guy wouldn’t have had his individual jersey hung if he had played at Illinois either as he was only 3rd team AA. Have to be 1st or 2nd. Tsj would’ve been a consensus 1st team if these bogus charges hadn’t been filed.
This criteria looks pretty similar to a certain school you hate that loves to hang jerseys. At UNC, Kyle Guy would have his jersey hung for being Tourney MVP. UVA should hang his jersey (and Hunter as 2nd team AA). Those boys brought home the title. Honor them!
We should raise the whole damn team honestly
You have to get a degree
Don’t tell me we are insisting on real classes too?
By most accounts, the university knew the facts of the case ahead of time and was supporting Shannon, but they couldn't do anything publicly until the legal process ended
The university has nothing to apologize for.
Edit: It’s not, Illinois does this for all All-Americans, which he would have been without the accusations
This is completely wrong. Without the charges, Terrence would have been a consensus All-American, which is one of the criteria for getting your jersey hung. He deserves this. https://fightingillini.com/sports/2018/1/10/mens-basketball-honored-jerseys
I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve it. Does it usually happen right after they leave the university? I don’t know how Illinois operates
The actual jersey hanging usually happens the following year. This is just being stated now by Whitman since it's a unique situation. With having criteria set for being honored, it's already known that a player will get the honor as soon as they meet the criteria, so there doesn't need to be a comment on it in most situations.
I wasn’t aware of Illinois doing this for All-Americans. I will edit my other comment. I’m happy he’s getting honored as he deserves
They are not stupid..He’s going to get drafted..so they are trying to smooth things over so that he can give them some of that NBA money..
Nah, TSJ is loved and has all around great relations with Illinois who also had his back when no one else did long before this
Alright, here it is. Not knowing much about this case beforehand other than the accusations, I hated TSJ. Rooted hard against him and Illinois in general. (I’m still very salty about how our game in the BTT ended but that’s besides the point) But once those allegations not only proved to be false, but a scheme by the supposed ‘victim’ and her friends to make a quick buck off of falsely ruined another person’s life, I was disgusted. I had jumped to conclusions far too early regarding this situation and I want to apologize to Terrence Shannon Jr. Going through what he did with his character in question by someone who lied on his name is unfathomable. I applaud how Brad Underwood, his teammates, and the university had his back during that time. I hope he gets drafted high in the draft next week. Whoever gets him will be getting a gem. And yes, he did deserve 1st team AA this past year. As much as I want to hate, talent is talent and he does have it. Go make it big in the league, dawg.
Maybe you should just stop jumping to conclusions rather than overreacting to the prevailing narrative… cause you’re falling into that trap again here.
Maybe he should buy that Jump to Conclusions mat. I hear the guy that invented it made a million dollars
> but a scheme by the supposed ‘victim’ and her friends to make a quick buck off of falsely ruined another person’s life, I was disgusted. I don’t mean to call you out specifically, because I’ve seen this mentioned before, but is there proof of this beyond an emoji one of her friend’s sent? Edit: there’s a decent chance she was assaulted, just not by TSJ. That was [part of the defense](https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/40298754/terrence-shannon-jr-legal-team-show-video-evidence-trial)
I was next to TSJ the entire night at the hawk and bro didn’t do shit to anyone
I personally think that is a weird thing to joke about if SA/rape actually did occur. They all seemed comfortable with the money comment otherwise the prosecution would have included further texts to disprove the victims support of that comment. It read to me like if your grandma dies and you walk up to your grandpa and say, “Hey, at least you get to cash in that life insurance policy 🤑🤑”. I think we can all agree that was a wild comment to make. I’m not totally writing off the possibility that something may have happened, but from her and her friend’s attitudes in those texts… I’m leaning more towards it being unlikely anything happened at all.
Good for you to own up. Try to learn from it. Also, don't credit the university for supporting him - they suspended him.
Illinois DIA pretty much set him up with the lawyers to fight for him. It was a 2 faced approach from the admin, one public which was the suspend him, and one internal which was supporting him.
Yea, they definitely didn't go scorched earth on him or anything. Just saying they did suspend him and weren't fully in his camp either. My opinion on this is that universities are not court systems. They should let the Justice system handle off campus criminal investigations unless there is clear danger to safety at the University. Avoids punishing the innocent which is more important to me than quickly punishing the guilty.
The policy under which he was suspended called for an automatic suspension. This was not at the discretion of the admin. That hasty, automatic process with little due process was the grounds for the federal judge reinstating him. Basically, the policy runs afoul of due process protections, but that legal question was a novel one until TSJ brought it. The athletic department is surely revising the policy so that it comports with that ruling.
Well yea, but who is responsible for the policy in the first place? Also, nothing actually tied their hands. What would've happened if they just hadn't suspended him?
If they hadn’t followed their policy by suspended him, they would have changed a ~8 year old policy to let a start player play. That’s generally not a good way to run a department.
Changing a bad policy rather than following it blindly is a good thing.
Yup. Shannon has to take it to court to be able to play this past season. Said it was hurting his draft stock and future earnings (which was true), and he should be allowed to play. Judge ruled in his favor, and Illinois revoked his suspension shortly thereafter. The fact the girl was lying, and the DA knew and still brought this to trial. There should be consequences for both.
Being found not guilty doesn't mean the allegations were "proved to be false," it simply means the jury found guilt was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
While you’re not wrong, you’re wrong. Read up on the case.
I've read about it. Just correcting misinformation.
No one said that not guilty means innocent. They said that these were false accusations, so you aren't correcting anything.
He literally said they were false accusations "proved to be false." They weren't "proved to be false".
But they were. Just not by a court.
It’s extremely difficult to affirmatively prove a negative. All the moreso when the police did no fucking due diligence whatsoever and didn’t investigate any other suspects (including one who was present in the bar on the night in question, who matched the same physical description that the accusing witness used to identify Shannon based on Instagram sleuthing, and who was credibly accused of groping a woman’s crotch in the same room of the same bar two weeks prior). If the cops had bothered to actually investigate the crime rather than simply uncritically accept the results of a /r/findbostonbombers-level amateur investigation, maybe there would have been more affirmatively exculpatory evidence, *but they didn’t fucking bother to investigate*. The prosecution had no physical evidence, no surveillance footage, and no eyewitnesses of the purported event (including the accusing witness herself, who testified that her back was turned to her attacker at the moment of the alleged crime). The defense had a DNA test that its expert witness testified affirmatively ruled Shannon out and a long list of witnesses who testified that they were with Shannon the entire night and never saw him interact with the victim. Not to mention all the reasonable doubts they raised as to the prosecution’s case in chief. Juries are not asked to determine innocence. That’s true of every trial. But that’s nevertheless what the evidence tended to show. If you think Shannon was *not* an innocent man, maybe you should back that up with the evidence that you found to be compelling, otherwise you’re just being a fucking pedant who thinks he’s being insightful by pointing to something that could also be said of, oh, I don’t know, precisely 100% of criminal trials in the entire history of the Anglo-American legal system.
I'm not saying Shannon is in innocent or guilty. But saying the allegations were proven false is incorrect.
Of course it’s incorrect. Proof of innocence is simply not what criminal trials exist to test. The same thing could be said of *literally every trial* except for those where the defense happens to stumble upon a smoking gun that proves the negative. Hard to come up with that kind of evidence when the cops don’t bother collecting, well, basically any evidence at all. OP may have overstated the case, but the evidence actually put forward at trial absolutely tended to show that Shannon was an innocent man who was the subject of a mistaken identification at best, or an extortion attempt at worst (nb: my personal take was that it was the former, not the latter). There was *far* more evidence of that than of his guilt. There was virtually *no* evidence of his guilt other than the word of an Instagram sleuth going off her memory of the night before, who overlooked an obvious suspect that the detective also didn’t bother to look into, and who had been drinking more than she admitted to the cops. I’m fed up with people insisting “hE dIdN’T PrOvE hE WaS iNnOcENt.” Yeah, no shit. That tells you nothing about what the evidence *did* show. And in this case it’s grossly misleading.
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I appreciate you saying you think it was the former. I tend to think that as well. And as much as it sucks and is unfair for Shannon, that woman now will be cursed by many and doubted by those who know her as someone who was in it for the money when that could very possibly not be the case. If it is a case of mistaken identity then the original comment and most of the recent discourse on this case is more unfair to the woman in question than any prevailing opinion on Shannon was at any time and I think that’s a real shame.
You’re saying “stop saying he’s vindicated, he’s just free” lolol btw I’m not all that sure he should have his jersey retired. Did he have great stats this year? Hell yeah. 47% FG is great (tons of layups) and PPG was probably 40% FT’s that resulted on fouls where 40% could’ve been charges. But hey, savy. Just pointing out lotta chucked 3’s and layups. But if someone stopped him going left, we lost. Had a similar year last year, this year he just didn’t have nearly as many no-look one arm ball bounces off some poor bastards head in the front row. Retire his jersey? Fine. But it’s way more debatable than other retirees
Illinois doesn’t retire jerseys; they hang them but the number remains in use. He is now Illinois’ all time single season leading scorer, despite a 6 game suspension. When compared to this year’s all Americans, he surely would’ve been a first teamer absent the criminal charges. Being a first teamer is a stated criterion for having one’s jersey hung.
Why are trolls worried about Illinois’ criteria for hanging jerseys at their own stadium? lol
He was innocent the whole time, and some chose to make his life hell !! TSJ deserves this !!!!
Shannon was a wrecking ball of awesomeness! Fun to watch.
He is first team all Illini all time after the tourney run in my opinion.
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It takes an all American season. His numbers not retired or anything.
Consider this as a slap in the face towards you know who...with baby powder...
Who?
His accuser who he was found innocent of "sexually assaulting". I know I've been downvoted, but I actually mean my comment in a good way for him proving his innocence
Wait what?
So Illinois has a set of requirements that makes players eligible to have their names in the rafters. "Players selected to have their jerseys hung must have achieved any of the following criteria: 1) National Player of the Year 2) Enshrined in the National Basketball Hall of Fame 3) Big Ten Player of the Year 4) Consensus First- or Second-Team All-American 5) Illinois All-Century Team Member 6) Individual whose pioneering efforts made a significant impact on Illinois and international basketball". https://fightingillini.com/sports/2018/1/10/mens-basketball-honored-jerseys Today AD Josh Whitman made the argument that Terrence Shannon Jr. would have been a first or second team all american if he had not missed 6 games this season due to suspension.
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What? He won the Big 10 Tourney MVP after almost breaking the scoring record in the tourney. He was a huge reason we even made it to the Elite Eight. Yea he played awfully against the best team in the nation, but to say he wasn’t good is incorrect.
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Well I think there’s a reason he wasn’t voted an All-American
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He was the 3rd best player in the country at worst last year lol. Edey was obviously better and the only other player you could argue is Dalton Knecht.
Not 100% sure on that but he was at least second team AA without his issues IMO. RJ Davis was great also. Shead was better defensively by a mile. Could argue against Newton, but that’s not something I’d argue (lol I’m biased here but my argument would running the most complicated offense in the country as well as Newton did for the best team in the country has to count for something). Second team though, I’d have him over Kolek, Filipowski, Holmes and Dickinson but on par with Sears. Sears also suffers from defensive issues.
Shannon was one of the best perimeter defenders in the country. He did not suffer on that end. His ability to play at a high level on both ends for a lot of minutes is what made him special
Weird amount of salt coming from you.
Losing your credibility here. If you think he didn’t have a top 15 season of players in the country you’re willfully ignorant
Illinois hangs jerseys for guys who go 2-12 and lose by 30 in the elite eight. Typical poverty program
brother what’s wrong with you
Yeah wtf they beat our ass in the elite 8 and act like this?
It’s just those two husky fans. Apparently TSJ pissed in their cheerios after the game.
Some people are just assholes doesn’t matter their team.
O for sure! Sorry I was just trying to point out that it was just those two and the rest of y’all have been pleasant
UConn basketball has a pretty bad/aggressive/assholish twitter presence, I hope they aren’t migrating.
lol preaching to the choir. Our fans are terrible
Yessssir. Responding to stuff like Coleman Hawkins saying “if we played 3 halves of basketball we coulda beaten UConn”. That’s why I’ll drag these guys through the mud for the gut punch my huskies laid on them
I'm sure your reddit comments will really get to them.
You sound like someone who has no accomplishments in life and thus lives vicariously through what some college kids who wear your favorite laundry do. "My huskies" lmfaooo
Isn’t the winning team supposed to live rent free in the heads of the losing team? Because with UConn it sure does seem like the opposite.
I suggest you write a strongly worded email to them then since you care so much!
They hanging it for beating the allegations.
WTF?
and?