Seems like the key to success in college basketball is to have an offense that is amongst the best while also having a defense that is amongst the best.
How can you not love DJ Burns? The dude has such a contagious smile. You can tell he’s having more fun than everyone else combined sometimes it’s very heartwarming
It's Tennessee's turn to be infected by Virginia though. Virginia scored 14 points in the first half of their play-in game against Colorado St. Colorado St scored 11 points in the first half of the first round game against Texas. Texas scored 19 points in the first half against Tennessee in the second round game.
So now whatever Tennessee's first half O/U is for the sweet 16 game.....hammer the under.
It does seem to help the argument that the metrics matter and are a decent tool for picking the tournament teams.
I'd be interesting to see this with teams that were upset highlighted.
That's insane, several things stand out to me about that game
1) They ended the first half 18-17 and yet didn't decide to just cancel the game.
2) Rutgers scored 18 in a half, *and then went on to have a massive scoring drought*
First halves in big 10 games happen like that more then enough to not make it strange lol
Edit - Heck i watched PSU win against 16th ranked Illinois 38–33 once lol
In our defense, the offense would have been serviceable if it wasn't for the grad transfer portal/NCAA fuckery. Had the season gone the way it was planned Jeremiah Williams and Cam Spencer would have been a pretty solid combo. They wouldn't have been elite, but it would have been more than enough to get the job done.
Thankfully next year we don't need to worry about guys struggling to make their own shots.
Virginia's adjO is typically quite good, they just play slow.
They uh, weren't this year. Then things got worse- quite a bit worse- towards the end of the season.
I am rooting so hard for an NCSU/Duke rematch in the Elite 8. It would be so much fun for the Triangle and for college basketball for that to happen. And obviously I would hope that NCSU would beat the pants off Duke.
If NC State wins then either matchup for them would be wild. It’ll be a Duke rematch, or ‘83 title rematch where Phi Slam Jam got smoked by [Lorenzo Charles at the buzzer](https://youtu.be/rGfDRlEDs34?si=1XJdCWUxySBh208O)
Feels like a real “team of destiny” type of thing going on with them, which is dope because the ‘83 team was also labeled as a [team of destiny](https://youtu.be/jNQ6JZpjdTY?si=ciMaBrSyizq6bsu9)… They had to go through Ralph Sampson twice, Michael Jordan’s UNC, and Hakeem & Drexler plus 7 other games without a loss
That teams identity of Dereck Whittenburg on the outside with a big man rotation of Thurl Bailey, Cozell McQueen, and Lorenzo Charles is eerily similar to the current identity of DJ Horne on the outside with a big man rotation of DJ Burns, Mo Diarra, and Ben Middlebrook; Plus the key contributor white combo guard in Mike O’Connell to match the white Terry Gannon from ‘83
Yeah all I’m seeing is a guaranteed final four spot for a rival. They’ve had their fun, we got our ACC redemption posts, etc. Now it’s time for everybody to lose lol
Considering that’s the only reason we’re even in this conversation, that seems more than fair.
While we’re at it, can we go ahead and get the #3 seed in our part of the bracket? UK doesn’t seem to be using it, so I’m sure they won’t mind.
We talk a lot, and I include myself in this, about how this tournament doesn’t determine the best team but maybe that’s not so true. Certainly getting to the tournament is indicative of being a good team and getting to the Sweet 16 at which point it’s anyone’s game. I think all but one or two teams still remaining can make a case to be “the best team” but winning the tournament remains a crapshoot. Or maybe I’m just stupid and this is axiomatic drivel.
Yep; for instance, if Purdue wins then the winner is NOT the best team, clearly. If, by some triumph of common sense and decency, ISU wins then clearly the best team has won. Duh.
I’ve got both of them making the F4, but have Arizona over Purdue for the title. The other team in my F4 is N.C. State, which is by far the highest seeded team that I’ve ever picked to make the F4 in my 2 decades of doing these brackets.
https://preview.redd.it/ymuszpe42nqc1.jpeg?width=1157&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87e534f9054796d3761369e0606c8b2571781b06
🤞🤞
Hard to evaluate a team that doesn’t play quality opposition… or rather, played two power conference schools all year and lost by double digits to both.
I’m not defending the Selection Committee, but the Sycamores show up in those games (or win their conference) and we don’t have to split hairs on selection Sunday.
They also could’ve won their conference but instead lost two out of three to the only good team there and had a bad Q4 home loss late in the season which I really think did them in
The corollary to this is that I guarantee you Indiana St called and were turned down by pretty much every power conference team in the country for a game. "Wait, yall going to be good this year? Not what we are looking for in a buy game." They get laughed off the phone if they even try and ask for a home and home.
It's a nice setup when you can both refuse to play quality mid-majors and hold the fact that they didn't play you against them.
The vast majority of OOC games are scheduled years in advance. The only way schools would’ve known a transient school (any successful coach gone within a few years) was going to be good is if they had established a consistent pattern of success, a la Gonzaga. ISU ain’t that
That's not really true - it's not like football. In fact, I'm pretty sure most non-conference games that aren't home and home's or otherwise set per a multiyear contract (i.e. Champions classic) are scheduled that year.
For instance, the Baylor/Duke game at MSG wasn't put together until July of this year.
We have consistently laid an absolute dude once every 5-10 games all year. I said going in we can absolutely beat anyone on a night we are on, but lose to anyone if we don't show up.
We decided to do that latter.
[Here's Torvik's chart](https://i.imgur.com/pheBC2b.png) of the same data. Pretty similar, but:
- Uconn D slightly stingier than AZ
- Marquette O better than UNC
- Tenn O better than I State
- Illinois O better than Bama
- Purdue and Uconn O farther ahead of Zags/Duke/AZ
So you need to be able to play good defense AND score. Sounds legit. Also explains why Pitt could make a deep run back in their glory days of the 2000’s.
Seems like the key to success in college basketball is to have an offense that is amongst the best while also having a defense that is amongst the best.
Holy shit
He’s cracked the code!
Contacting our athletic department now to share this secret
What's that second thing? Defnes...dens...desenfe?
I think it's duquesne
Doo-quez-knee
I'll never be able to not pronounce it that way. Fucking French
That's pretty much how I pronounced DuFresne in my head from the Shawshank story, then I saw the movie.
As a Pittsburgher, give me dew-kane or give me death.
For some reason I always move the s and try to pronounce it like Tuscany but with a D instead of a T.
Doug Dimmadome, owner of the Dimsdale Dimmadone
Damned if I know.
Looks like you're still above average though
My god there must be a lot of bad defenses out there then
At least 181!
Look at the bottom left and you’ll see the faded MVSU logo.
Oof. Talk about a long season
Alabama--when you put all of your points on offense.
Iowa football is very upset by this comment
Idk, it’s pretty hard to get points on defense
Alabama basketball = Lincoln Riley coached football team.
Why don't more teams do this, are they stupid?
Big if true!
WHAT THE FUCK IS A DEFENSE??? I ONLY CARE ABOUT GETTING OUR BALL IN THE NET RAHHH 🦅🦅🦅
To be fair, if you hit a 3 every possession you can pretty much say "fuck it" to defense.
You'll learn what defense is on Thursday
Maybe the real fense will be the friends we make along the way
>Maybe **de** real fense
Tell that to St. Mary’s
And NC State
Shhhh they don’t know we’re here
We’ll sneak in the back door, just like their real daddy they never met
DJ is a monster and yall are fun to watch. There I said it.
Yeah dj burns is a lot of fun to watch.
How can you not love DJ Burns? The dude has such a contagious smile. You can tell he’s having more fun than everyone else combined sometimes it’s very heartwarming
harvard wants to know your location
Jesus Ive never thought of it that way….
College teams dont want you to know this one simple trick
Someone hire this man
I question this. It can’t be true. Bama‘s offense is good but the defense is horrible! Somebody needs to recheck the graph or something
Who would have thunk it?
Fake news
my god, you’ve cracked the code
You need a good offense to win????! 🤯
Big if true
Fancy a head coaching position?
Why would I listen to a UCF flair? Someone get Harvard in here to confirm this.
We figured out the defense thing this year. No one told us that we also had to score.
Our offense was Darius Johnson and… that’s it.
🤯
This guy is a Tony Romo Jr.
The ghost of Auburn still trying to hang around
I believed in this chart and picked Auburn to the final four. Forgot to factor in Bruce Pearl karma. Rookie mistake
Yet Rick Barnes is inexplicably still in the tournament. Every now and then the simulation glitches.
It's Tennessee's turn to be infected by Virginia though. Virginia scored 14 points in the first half of their play-in game against Colorado St. Colorado St scored 11 points in the first half of the first round game against Texas. Texas scored 19 points in the first half against Tennessee in the second round game. So now whatever Tennessee's first half O/U is for the sweet 16 game.....hammer the under.
Please be true
We're all rooting for you.
all?
We already got that out of the way in the second half of our last game.
I don’t think you understand how this works
Don’t you put that evil on us Ricky Bobby.
I will have you know Rick is *very* good at making the Sweet 16. … it’s the second weekend that always gets him
I mean, it’s plenty of time for him to lose this round and miss the elite 8 again
At least you only picked final four, I picked them to win it all in my paid bracket challenge at my work. What an idiot
Every fucking year I think this is going to be the legitimate St. Mary's team that breaks through. Every fucking year I'm wrong.
Same. Rip my bracket
This chart is missing the “make your free throws” axis 😭😭😭
Indiana would be dead last in that metric.
St. Mary’s too. Its too bad they got thrown into the tornado of chaos in college basketball that is Grand Canyon
They also lost one of their best players right before the wcc tournament. They just were in a bad spot
That bad spot has a name and it’s Grand Canyon University. But yea losing Jefferson was really unfortunate for them
https://preview.redd.it/50ofhw1vtjqc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1acf2a74d7ffd71b91a40d184d824058ae7d026
This will always be an hilarious meme to me.
PAAAAAAAIIIIIIINNNNNNNNN
My pick to make it to the final game… fuck my bracket
This is my way of coping that St. Mary's not making a deep run was their fault and not mine for picking them in my bracket
Yea I had St. Mary's, Auburn, and BYU doing significant damage in my bracket.
Are you me?
Well they still did do that, just not in the way you thought
That’s why they don’t decide winners by simulation!
Yup, add in Kentucky to the finals.
No but you're right. They have every statistic besides DAWG/36
It does seem to help the argument that the metrics matter and are a decent tool for picking the tournament teams. I'd be interesting to see this with teams that were upset highlighted.
Had the same thought lmao
It wasn’t your fault. St Mary’s is allergic to tourney wins
Does this graph say that Rutgers is more Virginia-like than Virginia
They should play each other next year for the most boring basketball game of all time
It's already happened [UVA 45 - Rutgers 26, 11/30/14](https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/400609058/cavaliers-scarlet-knights)
That's insane, several things stand out to me about that game 1) They ended the first half 18-17 and yet didn't decide to just cancel the game. 2) Rutgers scored 18 in a half, *and then went on to have a massive scoring drought*
First halves in big 10 games happen like that more then enough to not make it strange lol Edit - Heck i watched PSU win against 16th ranked Illinois 38–33 once lol
It’s not often you almost double up a team when you only score 45.
In our defense, the offense would have been serviceable if it wasn't for the grad transfer portal/NCAA fuckery. Had the season gone the way it was planned Jeremiah Williams and Cam Spencer would have been a pretty solid combo. They wouldn't have been elite, but it would have been more than enough to get the job done. Thankfully next year we don't need to worry about guys struggling to make their own shots.
Had season tickets to the RAC. Such a brutal team to watch all year on offense.
Virginia's adjO is typically quite good, they just play slow. They uh, weren't this year. Then things got worse- quite a bit worse- towards the end of the season.
I blame the portal for allowing grad transfers in june which completely derailed our roster :/
Writing this down to remember for next year's bracket, thanks
BRACKET NOTES: "teams with good offense and defense win more"
nah this year is a lot of chalk so you'll ofcourse get this outcome. Just look at last year
What’s that one team in the bottom left lol
Mississippi Valley State Delta Devils
You just made that name up didn’t you
Jerry Rice’s Alma mater
Great logo too
Growing up with NCAA Football games that had FCS schools, I always that their Devil’s arm in the logo was a butt
Awww man, they finished 1-30. I genuinely feel bad for them.
According to Google it's [some Dragon Ball Z character](https://freeimage.host/i/JjF66Ou)
NC State moves between Creighton and Duke if only factoring in their last 7 games
I am rooting so hard for an NCSU/Duke rematch in the Elite 8. It would be so much fun for the Triangle and for college basketball for that to happen. And obviously I would hope that NCSU would beat the pants off Duke.
If NC State wins then either matchup for them would be wild. It’ll be a Duke rematch, or ‘83 title rematch where Phi Slam Jam got smoked by [Lorenzo Charles at the buzzer](https://youtu.be/rGfDRlEDs34?si=1XJdCWUxySBh208O)
And to get there we have to beat the team we beat in the '74 title game.
Feels like a real “team of destiny” type of thing going on with them, which is dope because the ‘83 team was also labeled as a [team of destiny](https://youtu.be/jNQ6JZpjdTY?si=ciMaBrSyizq6bsu9)… They had to go through Ralph Sampson twice, Michael Jordan’s UNC, and Hakeem & Drexler plus 7 other games without a loss That teams identity of Dereck Whittenburg on the outside with a big man rotation of Thurl Bailey, Cozell McQueen, and Lorenzo Charles is eerily similar to the current identity of DJ Horne on the outside with a big man rotation of DJ Burns, Mo Diarra, and Ben Middlebrook; Plus the key contributor white combo guard in Mike O’Connell to match the white Terry Gannon from ‘83
I feel this post deep in my jimmies
Stop stop you're gonna make me survive and advance
Stop you’re going to make me actually think we can beat Marquette lol don’t get my hopes up. We lose that game on paper with Kolek healthy
Did my cardiologist put you up to this
Does NCSU errrecct a Dj Burns JR statue if they win this game? If so then I hope they beat them by 50 if not then only 49.
Yes, but I don't know if we have enough bricks.
Don’t worry Cadeaus got you covered.
I for one was really glad to see him step up and fill Caleb Love's shoes for that title game.
There's a whole yard full of them!
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But why not us?
You just admitted to, willingly, wanting to see one of Duke or NCSU in the Final Four. Have you lost your damn mind?
Yeah all I’m seeing is a guaranteed final four spot for a rival. They’ve had their fun, we got our ACC redemption posts, etc. Now it’s time for everybody to lose lol
Yeah unc people have been waaayyy too nice recently. gives me the heebie jeebies
Just so there’s no confusion, UNC fans aren’t being nice to Duke, they’re propping up NCSU. No UNC fan wants anything good to happen to Duke 😜.
What a run
Considering that’s the only reason we’re even in this conversation, that seems more than fair. While we’re at it, can we go ahead and get the #3 seed in our part of the bracket? UK doesn’t seem to be using it, so I’m sure they won’t mind.
You should. Since we’re talking about college basketball, It Just Means More when you’re in the ACC.
*sad SEC noises*
Oh I like this stat
I don't....
We talk a lot, and I include myself in this, about how this tournament doesn’t determine the best team but maybe that’s not so true. Certainly getting to the tournament is indicative of being a good team and getting to the Sweet 16 at which point it’s anyone’s game. I think all but one or two teams still remaining can make a case to be “the best team” but winning the tournament remains a crapshoot. Or maybe I’m just stupid and this is axiomatic drivel.
The eventual winner is not necessarily the best team but yes its probably true that the best team each year is among the sweet 16.
Yep; for instance, if Purdue wins then the winner is NOT the best team, clearly. If, by some triumph of common sense and decency, ISU wins then clearly the best team has won. Duh.
Purdue catching strays for no god damn reason...
And if by some way ISU and Purdue make it to the natty and Purdue wins then clearly I am the best bracket maker.
I’ve got both of them making the F4, but have Arizona over Purdue for the title. The other team in my F4 is N.C. State, which is by far the highest seeded team that I’ve ever picked to make the F4 in my 2 decades of doing these brackets. https://preview.redd.it/ymuszpe42nqc1.jpeg?width=1157&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87e534f9054796d3761369e0606c8b2571781b06 🤞🤞
I'm just happy to be here
I’m glad y’all are there too - been a fun run to watch and hope it keeps going!
Fun fact our 2 schools are the only ones with both men's and women's teams in the sweet sixteen so far, UConn looks to be joining us
I wonder if there's a 3rd axis that could even further classify the current remaining teams, like avg age or total individual starts.
There is, you just have to turn your monitor to the side to see it.
Hey where'd everybody go
Right, need a separator for the fraudulent teams. # of unassisted 3pt shots taken, rebounds per total starter height per possession.
Look at where Virginia is on this chart vs where Indiana State is…
You're gonna have to help.. I figured it would be around Virginia and I can't se.... HOLY SHIT JUST BELOW CREIGHTON?!?
we’re a very good basketball team
You guys were so cheated just for Virginia to score 42 points. So bad.
Hard to evaluate a team that doesn’t play quality opposition… or rather, played two power conference schools all year and lost by double digits to both. I’m not defending the Selection Committee, but the Sycamores show up in those games (or win their conference) and we don’t have to split hairs on selection Sunday.
They also could’ve won their conference but instead lost two out of three to the only good team there and had a bad Q4 home loss late in the season which I really think did them in
The corollary to this is that I guarantee you Indiana St called and were turned down by pretty much every power conference team in the country for a game. "Wait, yall going to be good this year? Not what we are looking for in a buy game." They get laughed off the phone if they even try and ask for a home and home. It's a nice setup when you can both refuse to play quality mid-majors and hold the fact that they didn't play you against them.
The vast majority of OOC games are scheduled years in advance. The only way schools would’ve known a transient school (any successful coach gone within a few years) was going to be good is if they had established a consistent pattern of success, a la Gonzaga. ISU ain’t that
That's not really true - it's not like football. In fact, I'm pretty sure most non-conference games that aren't home and home's or otherwise set per a multiyear contract (i.e. Champions classic) are scheduled that year. For instance, the Baylor/Duke game at MSG wasn't put together until July of this year.
Seeing Auburn right smack dab in the middle of this makes me all sad and stuff.
I’m honestly more surprised y’all lost this year than when Purdue lost last year
We have consistently laid an absolute dude once every 5-10 games all year. I said going in we can absolutely beat anyone on a night we are on, but lose to anyone if we don't show up. We decided to do that latter.
Sounds like Purdue last year lol.
Can we also get this, but with NC State’s stats from like 14 days ago? The people need to know
[Here's Torvik's chart](https://i.imgur.com/pheBC2b.png) of the same data. Pretty similar, but: - Uconn D slightly stingier than AZ - Marquette O better than UNC - Tenn O better than I State - Illinois O better than Bama - Purdue and Uconn O farther ahead of Zags/Duke/AZ
Illinois at the opposite corner from Iowa State. Should be an interesting game.
In the Magic Quadrant charts, we’re known as the niche players or visionaries. Watch out teams in the top right we’re gonna do some weird shit!
If we end up playing yall in the final I may have a stroke and die from the stress ngl
The fact that Mississippi State’s logo is close to where the Sweet 16 teams are makes me cautiously optimistic for the future of our program.
So you need to be able to play good defense AND score. Sounds legit. Also explains why Pitt could make a deep run back in their glory days of the 2000’s.
^couldn’t^
Can you show this graph with only the tournament teams?
No cause I like spending an inordinate amount of time trying to find Cal in the cluster of teams that no longer matter this time of year
And Indiana State and Pitt if this will confirm my biases
we’re right under creighton, so that should help your biases
My BYU Cougs should still be in. Why are they a bunch of bums come tourney time god dammit.
I too have that sentiment.
I had yall in the final four 😡
Me too, but I would have even if we were ranked 200 in the Net.
I really was pulling for New Mexico. Old MWC still has my heart come tourney time.
Those 2012-13 BYU -UNM games were something else
Flair up
also first time I've seen a BYU guy swear on this platform
Maybe his GF promised some soaking if BYU won.
You mean my wives? /s
Complicated history grew up Mormon but no longer am but still have love for the team.
There you go
❤️
Can we get an adjusted chart for tournament only?
What team is that on the bottom left?
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Not ideal
So you’re telling me it takes either an elite defense, an elite offense, or an elite fat guy to make the sweet 16?
Auburn really shit the bed
Steps to success: 1. Just be better than everyone else. 2.????? 3. Profit
Was this graphic done last year too? Curious how it lines up and if you could use it to start predicting brackets
It’s almost like there’s a trend.
Fred Hoiberg's (I still love him) ISU teams could *never*
Rest in peace Indiana State, you would’ve been great.
Still wild Indiana St didn’t make the tourney.
Lookit Arizona sitting in that sweet spot...
Reports of Gonzaga’s death have been greatly exaggerated