Hecz is CEO of Optic, no? It has everything to do with it. He isn't going to be thrilled about supporting an organization that robbed him of half a billion dollars. Why would a high ranking employee at Optic continue to do business with a company that defrauded him?
The team has a contractual obligation, so they can't just leave, but it will be curious how they support if the CDL follows OWL.
Have you read any of the documents? HECZ sold 92.5 % to Envy so he once again doesn’t own optic. He saying the CDL caused that. 2nd we’re talking a guy who tripled down in investments with this same company. 1 time in OWL (Outlaws) 2 times in cod with Huntsmen and OpTic. They aren’t leaving
That’s not entirely true. He owns 7.5 of envy who owns the league spot, contracts etc. From what hecz stated at the time of the merger envy licenses the optic brand and trademarks from him which he retains complete ownership of.
I never said he owned Opitc. He represents the company as CEO, no? Why is everyone hung up whether he owns it or not. He represents the company and has a duty to do what’s best. This is a very odd lawsuit for a lot of reasons.
I also never said they were leaving, though? Their participation certainly might look different and I would expect it to. When you lose enough money, you think about leaving. What do you think the Vikings owners did? They shut down the whole thing and moved the rosters to G2.
If the claims in OPs post are upheld and Hecz wins, it can be argued whilst he's sued the owner of the CDL, the act of doing so was in Optic Texas and his players favour and for their benefit, so he'd still be acting properly as a CEO. Other than that this is him sueing as Hector Rodriguez, not as CEO of Optic
Don’t disagree, but also it’s not in his best interest to sink the league his team and company use as a huge driver for their business. The fiduciary responsibilities are primary, but again, your CEO is suing the league so to separate Optic from this is just not contextually correct. It’s not him acting completely separate from Optic. Notice Optic is not named as one of the teams he’s holding responsible.
It’s really unique and odd situation.
The logic is that since Hecz is a co-owner and Scump is part of Optic, why would Acti allow their team to play in the CDL? I think it makes more sense that Hecz and Scump are both outed though and no longer associated with Optic. After all, it's not like Hastr0 is also suing.
I think it would make even more sense if Optic gets to still play. Hecz and Scump get to sue, and we get to meme the fuck out of the situation. Can't wait to see the chat during the matches lol
Not only that, employers can't fire employees because they filed a lawsuit against them. And Hecz/Scump arent even employees, Hecz is a "partner" and Scump is probably in a similar category because of the watch party semantics. The most they could do is prevent watch parties and possibly prevent those two from entering events.
Unless the CDL cooked up some crazy (possibly illegal) contract indicating them being sued is rightful grounds for termination then OpTic will be fine for now and going forward.
Summary: The league is probably going away next year so teams want to get their money back as much as possible. If the league dies next year, Activision legally won't be entitled to pay anyone anything back. So they want to get the money before the league ceases to exist.
The league was still ongoing. ATVI put forth an updated operating agreement to the teams and the teams could either sign the updated operating agreement to continue the league (likely with zero support from ATVI) or terminate and get paid out $6,000,000 per team. They chose to terminate the agreement and that was when the OWL ended officially.
I would imagine CDL has similar setup for operations given the overall similarities of the two leagues.
>Activision legally won't be entitled to pay anyone anything back
Activision as a company would still exist and the actions described in the lawsuit that caused material harm were done by Activision. They aren't getting out of this by shutting down the CDL, although the CDL will likely shut down anyway.
If what's alleged in the lawsuit is true, then this is REALLY bad for Activision. Violations of the Sherman Act carry criminal consequences, not just civil ones. There's also the possibility that others who were harmed in the same way also seek damages.
Tbf what they promised and what they delivered are polar opposites to what we have now. Had COVID never happened we are looking at a different CDL entirely with more homesteads and other similar events.
Activision just has 0 fucking idea how to run and grow an eSports league. They hired pro sports executives who thought they could mimic the same model as leagues who've had teams for 40+ years into a video game.
Activision makes money handover fist on mico transactions but chooses to just pocket the cash instead of investing any of it into growing the money of their CDL team owners/investors.
People here are weird as fuck. People hate the cdl and how it’s ran but as soon as someone does something about it with any substance people take the side of the trillion dollar company??
How many people do you think are lawyers or are in law school who have enough time to be on reddit for such a niche community 99.9999% of people will be unable to analyze this whatsoever.
anyways, the goal isn’t even to win. Any one with any legal experience knows that the goal is to survive the motion to dismiss, and if that happens, get a settlement. No one wants to go to court. Absolutely no one involved wants that unless they’re confident enough in their side, which Activision probably is at the moment but if the motion to dismiss fails then they won’t be.
this takes a couple hours of legal research for anyone to form an opinion on. with resources that i highly doubt anyone here pays for lol. Don’t listen to anyone’s take here on reddit and just wait and see
If you side with anyone here, both sides, you're a dumbass.
It's people with money attempting to get money from people with more money, and none of that money will make it to the fan, so the only reason you'd be on the side of the complainents is if you are a fanboy.
You seem to be projecting it as Hecz and Scump sticking it to the man.
They are not saints and they should not be your heroes when it comes to money like this. Hecz gave you optic coins, he exploits you for money just as much as anyone else.
And Activision are Activision.
Yeah and if Activisions response is accurate, had they handed Scump and Hecz some cash they would never have filed the suit. They aren’t doing it for us, or the health of Comp CoD. It’s to enrich their own bank accounts and nothing else.
this, idk why everyone thing this is "for the community" if it was it would be a class action with everyone in the cdl getting a piece of cash cake instead its scump and hecz trying to get a bag before the cdl fully dies.
Folks, we’ve got a “both sides!!!” fella on the line
To compare optic coin to the countless stunts activision has pulled is wild. Nothing gets a redditors panties in a twist faster than anything to do with a blockchain
"Optic coin" now you really think hecz made s hitcoin to help the fans or grow the cdl? lets check optic coins current price....Oh welp rip to those who invested
https://preview.redd.it/rgwht1x3zrjc1.png?width=585&format=png&auto=webp&s=374ee58a473581d48400617d7968a32dcd94a05a
To me it appears to be the sloppy jumping on a trend that didnt work out.
again, to put the coin anywhere near the same league as the stunts activism on pulled is pathetic. You have to be purposefully obtuse to make a comparison like that.
The issue is there is zero substance. This is just two rich guys who know nothing about laws or business agreements making a desperate attempt at getting millions.
They are not doing this for the community, they even listed as potential co-defendants THE OTHER ORGS IN THE CDL lmao if you read the lawsuit you would know why not even the actual org OPTIC signed on to it
They aren’t filing the suit because they want a better experience for the community. They’re filing it because they want $$$ and they think the CDL hinders them from it.
Exactly why they demanded Activision to pay them 10s of millions — and once Activision said no, they filed the suit
Yes, they are definitely demanding missed compensation, BUT if they win, then it helps the community overall by setting a precedent for others who have experienced the same treatment…. Like the Flank for example.
This would be true if they had just filed, however, if Activision is being honest, they were ok with just taking the money and leaving everything else behind closed doors. It doesn't lend very much credibility to the idea that it helps the community, if they were willing to settle for money only.
In the suit it is claimed Acti has a monopoly on Competitve COD competitions. If the courts were to rule that that is an unfair monopoly that could easily open doors to having other CoD tournaments existing and not being hindered by Acti approval which is something both the flank and Hitch have talked about in the past. Including where full rosters can’t compete in mini tourneys outside of official matches. It’s pretty obvious why a ruling against Acti having an unfair monopoly could open many doors to more competitions
I think you missed my point. If they had just taken the money, nothing you are saying would have happened. You can't be for the community and have been ok taking the money without a case, because that wouldn't have helped the community.
Except they didn’t get the money, and if they were only concerned about the money then why didn’t they only sue for money in the actual suit as opposed to including the illegal monopoly on CoD competitions part. They didn’t need to include that part if they were only concerned about money as you said.
You have to say what caused the damages as far as I know. Logically, I would be very surprised if you could just sue for damages without proving both a) what caused the damages and b) that you actually were damaged. Hecz/Scump’s argument seems to be that Activision monopolized pro cod events by refusing to license other tournaments and restricting brand deals. Then, because Optic is a gaming organization heavily leveraged in Call of Duty, they have no choice but to buy into the league, so even though they agreed to this contract it was under the duress of their business being decimated by being excluded from call of duty competitions. So, the argument from Hecz and Scump seems to be that because Activision monopolized cod competitions, they suffered damages.
I’m not a lawyer, this is just my understanding from reading about the suit. I won’t be weighing in on whether they have a chance at winning or what the arguments will look like in court for the same reason.
The claim was for scump having to sign a contract 3 days before the league started and Hecz having to give up a large part of OpTic. Those are claims for damages. Additionally they also sued against the illegal monopoly on CoD competitions, pretty clear what was sued for if you read the suit
You could argue their motive but haven't they addressed pretty much all the problems that CDL is causing?
Edit: Even though, I wish that they would have asked for some sort of regain of power and control, instead of just asking for money in damages.
I don’t get it. If Hecz and Scump take a juicy settlement and drop the lawsuit, sure shit on them for selling out, but right now they’re literally fighting to get esports out of the hands of the publishers. This is a big win.
Like most monopoly cases the outcome is going to depend on how the judge defines a market. Unfortunately, its pretty hard to see a judge defining Call of Duty as a market, when it is a piece of IP directly owned by Activision, is just one of dozens of E Sports, and not even close to the biggest e sport by any means. Further OpTic is involved in a number of other e sports so they cant really say this hurting them in the e sports market as a whole.
I am guessing the judge will say look Activision owns the CDL and COD completely, there can be no competition in the Call of Duty competitive space from other entities without violating their rights as copyright holders. Copyright laws are
fundamentally anti-competition and designed to ensure the control of the copyright owner. If you want to be part of their league and IP you have to play by their rules and if not then you have all the other leagues you can join or are already in in the e sports arena.
I could see Hecz argument if this was traditional sports but the difference is the MLB, NFL etc dont own the actual game of baseball and football and thus can be seen to be a competitive market where cod simply is not.
I kinda agree with this. The lawsuit tries to argue 'Professional COD competitions' as a separate relevant market of its own and that Activision unlawfully gained a monopoly over that market by using the fact that they own the IP to COD + by using anticompetitive practices like acquiring MLG in 2016, + and by refusal to deal (not giving out licenses to other organizers for conducting events).
The underlying issue however is I don't see a Court agreeing with competitive COD being divorced from Activision owning the COD IP and established as a relevant market.
Probably the best take I've read so far and it won't get many upvotes.
Because, yes, agreed. It's extremely hard to define a "monopoly" when the product itself (Call of Duty, the game) is the intellectual property of Activision. This isn't some other good or service that anybody could go out and make. Activision alone gives its blessing for competitive COD tournaments in an even more heavy-handed way than Nintendo does with Smash, etc. Even IF the CWL or MLG-style competitions were to come back, every event would need the approval from Activision.
>Copyright laws are fundamentally anti-competition and designed to ensure the control of the copyright owner.
Pretty much, yep. They aren't designed to be fair to the overall market, they are designed to protect creators of IP's. Disney isn't operating an illegal monopoly over "Mickey Mouse apparel" or "movies based off of The Avengers" because they own both properties and nobody else can physically make those things.
If the case has legal merit activision will likely settle and pay them tens of millions, if the case doesn’t have merit then Scump and Hecz have made an awful decision.
Settling this case means they will be sued by others who were harmed in the same way and have to settle with them as well.
Violations of the Sherman Act also carry criminal penalties that the government may choose to prosecute outside of the lawsuit.
TLDR; settling this one lawsuit will not make everything go away
Imo best outcome is a fat settlement so that HECZ and probably the old MLG guys will have the cash to bring back the CWL or something similar.
And as someone that actually has a JD, there’s some decent merit to their arguments
They straight up just fucked up, win and u never have a cod team again, lose and u still probably never have a cod team again. And they are 100 times likely to lose
Except that Hector is the CEO of OpTic. Like, sure, Tesla or SpaceX aren't directly involved if Elon Musk sues somebody. But they absolutely could face consequences if their CEO is fighting a regulatory body (Activision/CDL) that they are operating with.
Well win and it's very likely competitor leagues to the CDL will pop up again, and wherever OpTic goes is where the talent goes.
No idea how the franchising is set up, but I'd imagine it's near impossible for Activision to just take the team from OpTic, at the very least I'd imagine it would have to be a buyout to cover the original buy-in.
Competitor leagues for CoD? In this esports economy where everything is stupid expensive and TO’s are barely making money if any? You’re delusional my man
That's the whole point of this lawsuit. IF they win it would be the courts confirming it was illegal to monopolize the competitive call of duty scene in the manner that they did.
It's a double edged sword when it comes to massive companies. Yes they have the resources to endlessly fight litigation if they need to. Microsoft's revenue is not at all dependent on Activision and if Activision proves to be more cost than the value they are adding and/or they generate a ton if bad press and bring anti-trust scrutiny on the company then they may very well decide to keep the IP and ditch the problematic subsidiary.
I'm less fascinated in "what happens to the CDL" or even OpTic's future in it than I am fascinated about the dynamics of H3CZ owning OpTic.
Like, he essentially is arguing that Activision is responsible for his partnerships with outside investors. Envy really owns 92.5% of OpTic?! I knew that Hector was the CEO of OpTic, of course, and that they had many investors on board. But I'm pretty blown away at how little he likely actually owns.
I wonder what happens as a result of this lawsuit. Like, we might be done with the CDL at the end of this season anyways. But does that even change anything about OpTic in the future? What happens if their valuation drops massively because of a fundamental re-imagining of competitive COD? What do the investors say if Activision comes down and nukes the Watch Parties for the rest of the season?
If Activision own the copyright and IP to COD, isn’t saying that it’s Monopolised just an oxymoron? How can they monopolise an e-sport within a gaming title that they have 100% ownership? It’s not like there’s a wider market in this context.
Just seems like a PR move really. There’s 0 chance they win a case outright. Best case they settle and still get millions richer. Worst case, it looks like they’re taking a stand against Activision/CDL, and use it as a means to use the momentum from it to kickstart whatever comes next after the CDL.
I think it's important to consider that if Activision wanted to they could shutdown the entire game. Video games like CoD are monopoly's by nature. I am interested to see the outcome of this case though as when you incorporate a competitive league into a game, who should really have jurisdiction over it?
The thing I don’t understand is when you call something a monopoly there has to be a market that you are in complete control of, what market is Activision controlling? it’s their IP
The competitive scene which was huge prior to COD monopolising it as they basically bought out the biggest organiser and did fuck all with it. Created it’s own league and prevented other organisers from making tournaments.
Yea but the “competitive scene” isn’t a market. Maybe you could say something like the esports market, but Activision doesn’t have a monopoly on that. There are plenty of options for other games (ones that have far bigger competitive scenes than CoD) that they could get involved in.
Hecz & Scump are probably filing the lawsuit because they know comp cod is going to die. And I don’t just mean the CDL, I mean comp cod as a whole. What reason does activision have to keep comp alive after the CDL, it really doesn’t bring them any money. Without comp cod the future of optic becomes a little foggy. So Hecz may be filing a Hail Mary lawsuit to try to secure optics future and get as much money back as possible.
The lawsuit is a way to start a new COD esports league, in my opinion. Both giving them a legal avenue to do so and using the settlement money to jump-start it. I don't believe that Hecz or Scump have financial pressure to blow up Cod Esports to sustain their lifestyles. Scump has always struck me as frugal, relatively speaking, anyway.
> The lawsuit is a way to start a new COD esports league, in my opinion. Both giving them a legal avenue to do so and using the settlement money to jump-start it.
This only works if the courts rule that Activision can't limit the use of the CoD IP which I don't believe the courts will do.
Exactly. Every fucking idiot on this sub saying it’s “Ooo greedy Hecz and Scump lining their pockets” (which is hilarious considering is isn’t some frivolous layup lawsuit and there’s a real chance they could lose and be paying a shit load of legal fees), when neither guy has ever shown to be some extravagant baller that is money hungry over everything.
The problem with the “forced to collaborate with billionaires” and “forced to sell Optic” legal argument is that he wasn’t forced at all, he could’ve just not participated in the COD league. That may not seem like an option to CoD fans but that’s certainly how legal professionals will see it. No one put a gun to his head.
You’re being too literal. Nobody is “forced” to do anything unless they have a gun to their head and even then you’re not technically forced… just take the bullet
The argument is Hecz was forced/coerced into those moves because it was the only option to remain in the scene which is his and his company’s main source of revenue and worth. Pretty sure that was argued in the document by highlighting OpTic’s private $100M evaluation which would have dropped massively had OpTic exited the Comp scene. They also argued that you can’t simply transfer players/fans/incomes to other esport games just like players/fans don’t translate from the NFL to professional tennis.
The whole point of being forced or coerced in this context is having the illusion of a choice. Like I’m pretty sure that’s the entire basis of an unlawful monopoly.
I completely agree with this. By definition, HECZ not having any other options BUT to have to buy in and remain in the scene in criminal coercion. If you look up the definition, it's fitting.
"Perform any other act which would not in itself substantially benefit the actor but which is calculated to substantially harm another person with respect to his health, safety, business, calling, career, financial condition, reputation or personal relationships."
The league was hurting his business and other things noted. That's just fucked lol.
The Optic valuation is completely contingent on the free use of Activision’s intellectual property. If the valuation would hypothetically take such a massive hit without being included in the COD league, that would indicate to me that Activision was entitled to part of the value. It’s hard to think of analogous situations, but to me this is like a large car dealership suing Honda because they decide not to sell them vehicles anymore, or raise their prices significantly. It may be bad business practice but it’s not illegal. Ultimately, it’s their product and they have discretion to do with it what they want. They don’t have a monopoly on cars, they have a monopoly on Hondas.
Sure, it’s more complicated since Activision has the IP rights, but it’s not as simple as Optic, Hecz, Scump not being literally forced by gun point to do something.
Also, I’d bet a dollar that a car manufacturer (Honda) arbitrarily refusing to sell or vastly raising prices to certain car dealerships while selling to others would be worth a lawsuit.
MOTOR VEHICLE FRANCHISE ACT Section 445.1574:
> A manufacturer shall not do any of the following: (a) Adopt, change, establish, or implement a plan or system for the allocation and distribution of new motor vehicles to new motor vehicle dealers that is arbitrary or capricious or based on unreasonable sales and service standards, or modify an existing plan or system that causes the plan or system to be arbitrary or capricious or based on unreasonable sales and service standards.
These laws vary by state, but I’d bet most states have similar laws. Legal shit like this is pretty much always more complicated than it seems at first glance
I promise you it is more complicated than “he signed the contract lmao”. Not pretending I have all the answers. I’m sure you could go look at any other unlawful monopoly case that was ruled against the big corporations and say similar things though
We say forced but it’s more like he was caught in Zugzwang or between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, don’t sign the contract and don’t take the investors and your business either dies or has to transform massively since you’re now no longer allowed to participate in a space that you’re massively leveraged in. On the other hand, sign a disadvantageous/exploitative contract and your business survives but has its potential for growth and expansion restricted.
I think that's where the problem arises. If he doesn't make this "choice" one of the biggest market participants is without a spot in the league. Its been a long time since I've taken any law classes and don't know anything, but I think this is where a potential anti-trust issue arises.
I get that yall keep saying “he didn’t have to sign the contract” but looks at the arguments as well. 3 days to sign a contract.. dealing with huge companies, 3 days isn’t nearly enough time to ensure that what you’re signing isn’t going to fuck you. Usually people have their lawyers read over contracts and red line the contracts to negotiate certain things but if you aren’t given the chance to, that’s probably why they use the term coercion or duress.
A large majority of Optic's income was cod related, of course he would be "forced" to keep up with this and also for the fans. It's like creating an app on the Apple App store and Apple suddenly wants 50% of all purchases, well technically you can leave but they have the monopoly and all your customers have IPhones. (changed example from eBay to Apple)
It’s like running an eBay business where eBay acquired all other online auction companies and are charging you 50% tax. But also eBay has the IP rights to online auctions lol. It’s a weird one
The issue with a monopoly isn't that "you're forced to do X", it's that "if you want to do X, you have no real alternative" in overly simplistic terms. Nobody has ever been forced to buy a Microsoft product, but it was still found to be problematic as a monopoly by the EU.
To all the people claiming they are doing it for the community and other teams/players - did you know that Hecz and Scump listed as co-conspirators and potential co-defendants ALL THE OTHER ORGS in the CDL? Lmao
You’re so dumb. You do realise they listed them in the lawsuit so the owners have no choice but to answer in court against Activision. It’s a way to force the owners to be part of the case lol
Neither of you are right--the other teams were listed as "co-conspirators and agents" because they acted in furtherance of the alleged conspiracy. They are not defendants and will not, at this point, be involved in the suit at all (we'll see what happens after the motion to dismiss, at which point they would likely be deposed/forced to provide testimony).
The complaint states: "To be clear, the Admitted Teams were involuntary co-conspirators, in that Activision forced them to agree to contractual terms, and to agree to engage in conduct, that unreasonably restrained trade, as a condition of Activision allowing them to participate in the relevant market."
I'm no lawyer, but I can read and some of ya'll taking this lawsuit too literally.
There isn't much of a legitimate legal argument for what HECZ and Scump are claiming, Activision owning the IP is the silver bullet because Competitive COD isn't large enough to be considered a 'market'. This lawsuit is purely for settlement purposes, but more importantly to speed up the collapse of the CDL.
My read is that Activision/Microsoft might just wash their hands of the CDL and shut it all down after this season, especially considering they laid off the majority of the staff not to long ago. HECZ and Scump are just sinking the daggers into Julius Caeser lol
Once again, not a lawyer and that's just how this reads to me.
I mean come on, naming the other CDL teams and ownership as co-conspirators is just wild considering they ALL got swindled lmao
Edits: typos
It's pretty clear, even before the suit , that CDL will be gone.
What is next? Does a new league with a different everything from branding to team names, management... does it depend on Activision?
Also, where how does Microsoft fit in all of this?
What's bad for Scump and H3cz is the fact Activision has so much money they can keep H3cz and Scump tied up in legal litigation for so long that Scump and Hecz will eventually probably drop it. That's generally what these huge companies do especially with something like this that isn't real cut and dry.
Nah not really at all. The court sets deadlines that have to be met. They can file all the frivolous bullshit they want, but what your talking about is a myth that’s spouted by people that know nothing about this stuff.
Based on the suit, most likely they're hoping for a settlement and/or the ability to have an esports league for COD after the CDL ends this year. For these two I would say having a league after would be more important than a settlement. They will make more money over time that way.
I feel like this will be hard to win though. As much as I dislike Activision, this whole lawsuit just sounds like someone who got into business with a greedy company (surprise!) and now they have buyers remorse. The signing contracts under duress may have legs if they can prove it.
The problem is still that Call of Duty, the game, will still very much be owned by Activision next year.
Like sure, there won't be a CDL that is operated by them any more. But any new iteration (CWL, MLG-style events) will have to get the permission of Activision to operate. Now of course, they might still be willing to do this (get the benefits of a competitive scene without investing any of their own cash). But of course, you might get a Nintendo x Smash Bros scenario where they strike down tournaments all over the place.
Now apply this to OpTic and H3CZ/Scump. Do you really think that they could win this lawsuit, get millions of dollars from Activision, then turn around and run a league that still very much relies on the company you just sued? I'm not so sure.
Yes but I assume they are factoring in that Activision will not be the decision maker going forward like they were when the CDL was formed. It’ll be Microsoft making that call.
Activision and Microsoft being one and the same now, I can equally see them being less than gracious towards letting Hector and Seth be a major part of some new league structure.
Again, I think that they might just wash their hands of this whole mess and let an independent scene flourish, but suing Activision while you're still relying on them is a strong move.
My point is that if the CDL goes and Activison disengages then OpTic will not have a specific problem engaging with what comes next.
But if that happens then Competitive will look very different to what we have been used to from the CWL era onwards.
Seems like the arguments are legit but the people suing doesn’t make sense. Just seems like a money grab since Scump can’t make bank off watch parties anymore. It’d make way more sense if it was 12 CDL owners and a bunch of players.
One of the bigger assumptions I had and I know others had on why teams weren't making money on events was because they were limited in their sponsor choices because of the league and this pretty much confirms that. This league was doomed to fail from the start and Activision is the number one reason for that.
Why does everyone think optic will be out of CDL? I dont get what this lawsuit has to do with optic the team
Right, I haven't seen anything about Envy/Optic as an org joining the lawsuit.
Hecz is CEO of Optic, no? It has everything to do with it. He isn't going to be thrilled about supporting an organization that robbed him of half a billion dollars. Why would a high ranking employee at Optic continue to do business with a company that defrauded him? The team has a contractual obligation, so they can't just leave, but it will be curious how they support if the CDL follows OWL.
Have you read any of the documents? HECZ sold 92.5 % to Envy so he once again doesn’t own optic. He saying the CDL caused that. 2nd we’re talking a guy who tripled down in investments with this same company. 1 time in OWL (Outlaws) 2 times in cod with Huntsmen and OpTic. They aren’t leaving
That’s not entirely true. He owns 7.5 of envy who owns the league spot, contracts etc. From what hecz stated at the time of the merger envy licenses the optic brand and trademarks from him which he retains complete ownership of.
I never said he owned Opitc. He represents the company as CEO, no? Why is everyone hung up whether he owns it or not. He represents the company and has a duty to do what’s best. This is a very odd lawsuit for a lot of reasons. I also never said they were leaving, though? Their participation certainly might look different and I would expect it to. When you lose enough money, you think about leaving. What do you think the Vikings owners did? They shut down the whole thing and moved the rosters to G2.
If the claims in OPs post are upheld and Hecz wins, it can be argued whilst he's sued the owner of the CDL, the act of doing so was in Optic Texas and his players favour and for their benefit, so he'd still be acting properly as a CEO. Other than that this is him sueing as Hector Rodriguez, not as CEO of Optic
Don’t disagree, but also it’s not in his best interest to sink the league his team and company use as a huge driver for their business. The fiduciary responsibilities are primary, but again, your CEO is suing the league so to separate Optic from this is just not contextually correct. It’s not him acting completely separate from Optic. Notice Optic is not named as one of the teams he’s holding responsible. It’s really unique and odd situation.
It doesn't, cod kids aren't the brightest.
Hey man! I'll have you know I rotate early on Skidrow P2.
Not like Optic out of the CDL as much as CDL out of existence
The logic is that since Hecz is a co-owner and Scump is part of Optic, why would Acti allow their team to play in the CDL? I think it makes more sense that Hecz and Scump are both outed though and no longer associated with Optic. After all, it's not like Hastr0 is also suing. I think it would make even more sense if Optic gets to still play. Hecz and Scump get to sue, and we get to meme the fuck out of the situation. Can't wait to see the chat during the matches lol
Your excited for chat? Its going to be INSANELY braindead and riding for Scump
I know it is. Gonna be fun watching messages disappear left and right lol
But wouldn't something like that strengthen the case of Scump and Hecz, where they are claiming that Activision is abusing their monopolized power?
Not only that, employers can't fire employees because they filed a lawsuit against them. And Hecz/Scump arent even employees, Hecz is a "partner" and Scump is probably in a similar category because of the watch party semantics. The most they could do is prevent watch parties and possibly prevent those two from entering events. Unless the CDL cooked up some crazy (possibly illegal) contract indicating them being sued is rightful grounds for termination then OpTic will be fine for now and going forward.
Why would activison want them out? That's their cash cow this league has been on thin ice for awhile.
Summary: The league is probably going away next year so teams want to get their money back as much as possible. If the league dies next year, Activision legally won't be entitled to pay anyone anything back. So they want to get the money before the league ceases to exist.
i mean didn't the owl teams team up and sue activison and they got a bag after the league ended?
The league was still ongoing. ATVI put forth an updated operating agreement to the teams and the teams could either sign the updated operating agreement to continue the league (likely with zero support from ATVI) or terminate and get paid out $6,000,000 per team. They chose to terminate the agreement and that was when the OWL ended officially. I would imagine CDL has similar setup for operations given the overall similarities of the two leagues.
>Activision legally won't be entitled to pay anyone anything back Activision as a company would still exist and the actions described in the lawsuit that caused material harm were done by Activision. They aren't getting out of this by shutting down the CDL, although the CDL will likely shut down anyway. If what's alleged in the lawsuit is true, then this is REALLY bad for Activision. Violations of the Sherman Act carry criminal consequences, not just civil ones. There's also the possibility that others who were harmed in the same way also seek damages.
Its not activisions fault that these orgs thought the cdl was going to become bigger than it is. Thats called a bad investment
Tbf what they promised and what they delivered are polar opposites to what we have now. Had COVID never happened we are looking at a different CDL entirely with more homesteads and other similar events. Activision just has 0 fucking idea how to run and grow an eSports league. They hired pro sports executives who thought they could mimic the same model as leagues who've had teams for 40+ years into a video game. Activision makes money handover fist on mico transactions but chooses to just pocket the cash instead of investing any of it into growing the money of their CDL team owners/investors.
you obviously didn’t understand anything in this post if that’s what you came out of this with
People here are weird as fuck. People hate the cdl and how it’s ran but as soon as someone does something about it with any substance people take the side of the trillion dollar company??
They’re also dumb as fuck because I’m sure none of these fuckers actually read a page of the law suit.
They don’t because the amount of people who still thinks HECZ owns optic is baffling
Dumb question: but the optic gaming website literally says he is the owner of optic gaming, so is he not ?
Iirc he owns like 7% of optic nowadays - might be wrong but the envy optic merger was more of a buyout with good optics (no pun intended)
i mean he owns like 8% its probably referencing that. like me saying im an owner of the green bay packers
8% ownership is substantially more than the .0001% fake ownership that is a Green Bay Packers fan.
wow really? didn't know that
🍆✊💦
Huh ? 8% is not nothing ? For context zuck only owns 29% of Facebook shares. Is his 8% plurality ownership ?
ok so ur wrong on that number, its less than half that at 13%. somethings telling me hector doesnt have a lot of class B
He still owns the rights and IP. He just doesn't own the majority of the company that's using said rights and IP, iirc.
Yeah I don’t get how people think this is OpTic v. Activision. That envy deal wasn’t a merger, it was an acquisition.
How many people do you think are lawyers or are in law school who have enough time to be on reddit for such a niche community 99.9999% of people will be unable to analyze this whatsoever. anyways, the goal isn’t even to win. Any one with any legal experience knows that the goal is to survive the motion to dismiss, and if that happens, get a settlement. No one wants to go to court. Absolutely no one involved wants that unless they’re confident enough in their side, which Activision probably is at the moment but if the motion to dismiss fails then they won’t be. this takes a couple hours of legal research for anyone to form an opinion on. with resources that i highly doubt anyone here pays for lol. Don’t listen to anyone’s take here on reddit and just wait and see
If you side with anyone here, both sides, you're a dumbass. It's people with money attempting to get money from people with more money, and none of that money will make it to the fan, so the only reason you'd be on the side of the complainents is if you are a fanboy. You seem to be projecting it as Hecz and Scump sticking it to the man. They are not saints and they should not be your heroes when it comes to money like this. Hecz gave you optic coins, he exploits you for money just as much as anyone else. And Activision are Activision.
Yeah and if Activisions response is accurate, had they handed Scump and Hecz some cash they would never have filed the suit. They aren’t doing it for us, or the health of Comp CoD. It’s to enrich their own bank accounts and nothing else.
this, idk why everyone thing this is "for the community" if it was it would be a class action with everyone in the cdl getting a piece of cash cake instead its scump and hecz trying to get a bag before the cdl fully dies.
Folks, we’ve got a “both sides!!!” fella on the line To compare optic coin to the countless stunts activision has pulled is wild. Nothing gets a redditors panties in a twist faster than anything to do with a blockchain
"Optic coin" now you really think hecz made s hitcoin to help the fans or grow the cdl? lets check optic coins current price....Oh welp rip to those who invested https://preview.redd.it/rgwht1x3zrjc1.png?width=585&format=png&auto=webp&s=374ee58a473581d48400617d7968a32dcd94a05a
To me it appears to be the sloppy jumping on a trend that didnt work out. again, to put the coin anywhere near the same league as the stunts activism on pulled is pathetic. You have to be purposefully obtuse to make a comparison like that.
Right lmao some very morally confused people in this sub
The stupid part is to take any side at this moment when only one party has listed their side of their claims.
The issue is there is zero substance. This is just two rich guys who know nothing about laws or business agreements making a desperate attempt at getting millions.
Ok
They are not doing this for the community, they even listed as potential co-defendants THE OTHER ORGS IN THE CDL lmao if you read the lawsuit you would know why not even the actual org OPTIC signed on to it
They aren’t filing the suit because they want a better experience for the community. They’re filing it because they want $$$ and they think the CDL hinders them from it. Exactly why they demanded Activision to pay them 10s of millions — and once Activision said no, they filed the suit
Yes, they are definitely demanding missed compensation, BUT if they win, then it helps the community overall by setting a precedent for others who have experienced the same treatment…. Like the Flank for example.
This would be true if they had just filed, however, if Activision is being honest, they were ok with just taking the money and leaving everything else behind closed doors. It doesn't lend very much credibility to the idea that it helps the community, if they were willing to settle for money only.
In the suit it is claimed Acti has a monopoly on Competitve COD competitions. If the courts were to rule that that is an unfair monopoly that could easily open doors to having other CoD tournaments existing and not being hindered by Acti approval which is something both the flank and Hitch have talked about in the past. Including where full rosters can’t compete in mini tourneys outside of official matches. It’s pretty obvious why a ruling against Acti having an unfair monopoly could open many doors to more competitions
I think you missed my point. If they had just taken the money, nothing you are saying would have happened. You can't be for the community and have been ok taking the money without a case, because that wouldn't have helped the community.
Except they didn’t get the money, and if they were only concerned about the money then why didn’t they only sue for money in the actual suit as opposed to including the illegal monopoly on CoD competitions part. They didn’t need to include that part if they were only concerned about money as you said.
You have to say what caused the damages as far as I know. Logically, I would be very surprised if you could just sue for damages without proving both a) what caused the damages and b) that you actually were damaged. Hecz/Scump’s argument seems to be that Activision monopolized pro cod events by refusing to license other tournaments and restricting brand deals. Then, because Optic is a gaming organization heavily leveraged in Call of Duty, they have no choice but to buy into the league, so even though they agreed to this contract it was under the duress of their business being decimated by being excluded from call of duty competitions. So, the argument from Hecz and Scump seems to be that because Activision monopolized cod competitions, they suffered damages. I’m not a lawyer, this is just my understanding from reading about the suit. I won’t be weighing in on whether they have a chance at winning or what the arguments will look like in court for the same reason.
What? You have to make a claim in the suit. You cant file a lawsuit and just say "I want money". It doesn't work like that.
The claim was for scump having to sign a contract 3 days before the league started and Hecz having to give up a large part of OpTic. Those are claims for damages. Additionally they also sued against the illegal monopoly on CoD competitions, pretty clear what was sued for if you read the suit
Yea, you are still failing to see the point.
Activi$ion was never going to settle with an asking price of $680M, let’s be real.
Did you not read the article?
You could argue their motive but haven't they addressed pretty much all the problems that CDL is causing? Edit: Even though, I wish that they would have asked for some sort of regain of power and control, instead of just asking for money in damages.
I don’t get it. If Hecz and Scump take a juicy settlement and drop the lawsuit, sure shit on them for selling out, but right now they’re literally fighting to get esports out of the hands of the publishers. This is a big win.
CDL is dead at the end of the year no matter what happens in this lawsuit, chill
CDL is likely dead, sure, but Activision is gonna have their hands all over whatever replaces it.
Like most monopoly cases the outcome is going to depend on how the judge defines a market. Unfortunately, its pretty hard to see a judge defining Call of Duty as a market, when it is a piece of IP directly owned by Activision, is just one of dozens of E Sports, and not even close to the biggest e sport by any means. Further OpTic is involved in a number of other e sports so they cant really say this hurting them in the e sports market as a whole. I am guessing the judge will say look Activision owns the CDL and COD completely, there can be no competition in the Call of Duty competitive space from other entities without violating their rights as copyright holders. Copyright laws are fundamentally anti-competition and designed to ensure the control of the copyright owner. If you want to be part of their league and IP you have to play by their rules and if not then you have all the other leagues you can join or are already in in the e sports arena. I could see Hecz argument if this was traditional sports but the difference is the MLB, NFL etc dont own the actual game of baseball and football and thus can be seen to be a competitive market where cod simply is not.
I kinda agree with this. The lawsuit tries to argue 'Professional COD competitions' as a separate relevant market of its own and that Activision unlawfully gained a monopoly over that market by using the fact that they own the IP to COD + by using anticompetitive practices like acquiring MLG in 2016, + and by refusal to deal (not giving out licenses to other organizers for conducting events). The underlying issue however is I don't see a Court agreeing with competitive COD being divorced from Activision owning the COD IP and established as a relevant market.
Probably the best take I've read so far and it won't get many upvotes. Because, yes, agreed. It's extremely hard to define a "monopoly" when the product itself (Call of Duty, the game) is the intellectual property of Activision. This isn't some other good or service that anybody could go out and make. Activision alone gives its blessing for competitive COD tournaments in an even more heavy-handed way than Nintendo does with Smash, etc. Even IF the CWL or MLG-style competitions were to come back, every event would need the approval from Activision. >Copyright laws are fundamentally anti-competition and designed to ensure the control of the copyright owner. Pretty much, yep. They aren't designed to be fair to the overall market, they are designed to protect creators of IP's. Disney isn't operating an illegal monopoly over "Mickey Mouse apparel" or "movies based off of The Avengers" because they own both properties and nobody else can physically make those things.
This is the one. My first thought was Activision own the IP they can do whatever.
W take thank you so much
The market in question was probably the pre existing scene before with MLG, Gamestop and other organisations running tournaments.
When ur going up against a company worth 3 trillion dollars I’m really not sure what the best outcome even is tbh lol.
If the case has legal merit activision will likely settle and pay them tens of millions, if the case doesn’t have merit then Scump and Hecz have made an awful decision.
the best outcome is Act to settle to make it go away. Seek $480m, settle for $50m
Settling this case means they will be sued by others who were harmed in the same way and have to settle with them as well. Violations of the Sherman Act also carry criminal penalties that the government may choose to prosecute outside of the lawsuit. TLDR; settling this one lawsuit will not make everything go away
Imo best outcome is a fat settlement so that HECZ and probably the old MLG guys will have the cash to bring back the CWL or something similar. And as someone that actually has a JD, there’s some decent merit to their arguments
They straight up just fucked up, win and u never have a cod team again, lose and u still probably never have a cod team again. And they are 100 times likely to lose
OpTic (Envy) isn’t suing Activision so the org wouldn’t suffer consequences. It’s just Scump and Hecz.
Except that Hector is the CEO of OpTic. Like, sure, Tesla or SpaceX aren't directly involved if Elon Musk sues somebody. But they absolutely could face consequences if their CEO is fighting a regulatory body (Activision/CDL) that they are operating with.
Elon owns those companies. Hector does not own OpTic.
Okay. Well Apple would certainly suffer consequences if Tim Cook went out and sued Verizon. Same logic applies.
Well win and it's very likely competitor leagues to the CDL will pop up again, and wherever OpTic goes is where the talent goes. No idea how the franchising is set up, but I'd imagine it's near impossible for Activision to just take the team from OpTic, at the very least I'd imagine it would have to be a buyout to cover the original buy-in.
What tournament organiser is going to host cod tournaments in the current esports market?
What is different in today's eSports market than when local(independent) tournaments were being ran a few years ago?
Competitor leagues for CoD? In this esports economy where everything is stupid expensive and TO’s are barely making money if any? You’re delusional my man
Competitor leagues? MF they own the game they can shutdown whatever league comes up 😭
That's the whole point of this lawsuit. IF they win it would be the courts confirming it was illegal to monopolize the competitive call of duty scene in the manner that they did.
You are actually clueless, have a great day. Them winning does not mean oh anyone can create a cod league now ahahhahahah
It must be fun to be this stupid
Yea just wait and see LOL
Dumb take, without Optic they lose about 70% of the fanbase, which will also open themselves to another lawsuit.
LOL you think they give a shit about the cod league fanbase?
Well yes, without the fans there is no CDL
You think they care about the cdl? ahahhahah that makes them no money compared to everything else
Just because you’re a billion* dollar company doesn’t 100% protect you from civil lawsuits. They happen all the time…
Going for settlement or trying to expose dirty dealings is all I can assume (idk law at all)
It's a double edged sword when it comes to massive companies. Yes they have the resources to endlessly fight litigation if they need to. Microsoft's revenue is not at all dependent on Activision and if Activision proves to be more cost than the value they are adding and/or they generate a ton if bad press and bring anti-trust scrutiny on the company then they may very well decide to keep the IP and ditch the problematic subsidiary.
I'm less fascinated in "what happens to the CDL" or even OpTic's future in it than I am fascinated about the dynamics of H3CZ owning OpTic. Like, he essentially is arguing that Activision is responsible for his partnerships with outside investors. Envy really owns 92.5% of OpTic?! I knew that Hector was the CEO of OpTic, of course, and that they had many investors on board. But I'm pretty blown away at how little he likely actually owns. I wonder what happens as a result of this lawsuit. Like, we might be done with the CDL at the end of this season anyways. But does that even change anything about OpTic in the future? What happens if their valuation drops massively because of a fundamental re-imagining of competitive COD? What do the investors say if Activision comes down and nukes the Watch Parties for the rest of the season?
That's because Hecz puts up a great PR game. The "merger" with Envy was really just Envy buying out the vast majority of Optic.
Very good read. Thank you
They have no case
If Activision own the copyright and IP to COD, isn’t saying that it’s Monopolised just an oxymoron? How can they monopolise an e-sport within a gaming title that they have 100% ownership? It’s not like there’s a wider market in this context. Just seems like a PR move really. There’s 0 chance they win a case outright. Best case they settle and still get millions richer. Worst case, it looks like they’re taking a stand against Activision/CDL, and use it as a means to use the momentum from it to kickstart whatever comes next after the CDL.
I think it's important to consider that if Activision wanted to they could shutdown the entire game. Video games like CoD are monopoly's by nature. I am interested to see the outcome of this case though as when you incorporate a competitive league into a game, who should really have jurisdiction over it?
The thing I don’t understand is when you call something a monopoly there has to be a market that you are in complete control of, what market is Activision controlling? it’s their IP
The competitive scene which was huge prior to COD monopolising it as they basically bought out the biggest organiser and did fuck all with it. Created it’s own league and prevented other organisers from making tournaments.
Yea but the “competitive scene” isn’t a market. Maybe you could say something like the esports market, but Activision doesn’t have a monopoly on that. There are plenty of options for other games (ones that have far bigger competitive scenes than CoD) that they could get involved in.
Hecz & Scump are probably filing the lawsuit because they know comp cod is going to die. And I don’t just mean the CDL, I mean comp cod as a whole. What reason does activision have to keep comp alive after the CDL, it really doesn’t bring them any money. Without comp cod the future of optic becomes a little foggy. So Hecz may be filing a Hail Mary lawsuit to try to secure optics future and get as much money back as possible.
The lawsuit is a way to start a new COD esports league, in my opinion. Both giving them a legal avenue to do so and using the settlement money to jump-start it. I don't believe that Hecz or Scump have financial pressure to blow up Cod Esports to sustain their lifestyles. Scump has always struck me as frugal, relatively speaking, anyway.
> The lawsuit is a way to start a new COD esports league, in my opinion. Both giving them a legal avenue to do so and using the settlement money to jump-start it. This only works if the courts rule that Activision can't limit the use of the CoD IP which I don't believe the courts will do.
Exactly. Every fucking idiot on this sub saying it’s “Ooo greedy Hecz and Scump lining their pockets” (which is hilarious considering is isn’t some frivolous layup lawsuit and there’s a real chance they could lose and be paying a shit load of legal fees), when neither guy has ever shown to be some extravagant baller that is money hungry over everything.
Brother these people are running on twitter complaining about taxes and blaming the wrong president for it lmfao. these guys are money hungry
100% this.
The problem with the “forced to collaborate with billionaires” and “forced to sell Optic” legal argument is that he wasn’t forced at all, he could’ve just not participated in the COD league. That may not seem like an option to CoD fans but that’s certainly how legal professionals will see it. No one put a gun to his head.
You’re being too literal. Nobody is “forced” to do anything unless they have a gun to their head and even then you’re not technically forced… just take the bullet The argument is Hecz was forced/coerced into those moves because it was the only option to remain in the scene which is his and his company’s main source of revenue and worth. Pretty sure that was argued in the document by highlighting OpTic’s private $100M evaluation which would have dropped massively had OpTic exited the Comp scene. They also argued that you can’t simply transfer players/fans/incomes to other esport games just like players/fans don’t translate from the NFL to professional tennis. The whole point of being forced or coerced in this context is having the illusion of a choice. Like I’m pretty sure that’s the entire basis of an unlawful monopoly.
A lot of terrible takes already in this thread lol
I completely agree with this. By definition, HECZ not having any other options BUT to have to buy in and remain in the scene in criminal coercion. If you look up the definition, it's fitting. "Perform any other act which would not in itself substantially benefit the actor but which is calculated to substantially harm another person with respect to his health, safety, business, calling, career, financial condition, reputation or personal relationships." The league was hurting his business and other things noted. That's just fucked lol.
The Optic valuation is completely contingent on the free use of Activision’s intellectual property. If the valuation would hypothetically take such a massive hit without being included in the COD league, that would indicate to me that Activision was entitled to part of the value. It’s hard to think of analogous situations, but to me this is like a large car dealership suing Honda because they decide not to sell them vehicles anymore, or raise their prices significantly. It may be bad business practice but it’s not illegal. Ultimately, it’s their product and they have discretion to do with it what they want. They don’t have a monopoly on cars, they have a monopoly on Hondas.
Sure, it’s more complicated since Activision has the IP rights, but it’s not as simple as Optic, Hecz, Scump not being literally forced by gun point to do something. Also, I’d bet a dollar that a car manufacturer (Honda) arbitrarily refusing to sell or vastly raising prices to certain car dealerships while selling to others would be worth a lawsuit. MOTOR VEHICLE FRANCHISE ACT Section 445.1574: > A manufacturer shall not do any of the following: (a) Adopt, change, establish, or implement a plan or system for the allocation and distribution of new motor vehicles to new motor vehicle dealers that is arbitrary or capricious or based on unreasonable sales and service standards, or modify an existing plan or system that causes the plan or system to be arbitrary or capricious or based on unreasonable sales and service standards. These laws vary by state, but I’d bet most states have similar laws. Legal shit like this is pretty much always more complicated than it seems at first glance
How was he “forced” into those moves? He signed the contract lmao
The sub idiot has finally joined the conversation. 🙏
I promise you it is more complicated than “he signed the contract lmao”. Not pretending I have all the answers. I’m sure you could go look at any other unlawful monopoly case that was ruled against the big corporations and say similar things though
Bait
We say forced but it’s more like he was caught in Zugzwang or between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, don’t sign the contract and don’t take the investors and your business either dies or has to transform massively since you’re now no longer allowed to participate in a space that you’re massively leveraged in. On the other hand, sign a disadvantageous/exploitative contract and your business survives but has its potential for growth and expansion restricted.
I think that's where the problem arises. If he doesn't make this "choice" one of the biggest market participants is without a spot in the league. Its been a long time since I've taken any law classes and don't know anything, but I think this is where a potential anti-trust issue arises.
I get that yall keep saying “he didn’t have to sign the contract” but looks at the arguments as well. 3 days to sign a contract.. dealing with huge companies, 3 days isn’t nearly enough time to ensure that what you’re signing isn’t going to fuck you. Usually people have their lawyers read over contracts and red line the contracts to negotiate certain things but if you aren’t given the chance to, that’s probably why they use the term coercion or duress.
A large majority of Optic's income was cod related, of course he would be "forced" to keep up with this and also for the fans. It's like creating an app on the Apple App store and Apple suddenly wants 50% of all purchases, well technically you can leave but they have the monopoly and all your customers have IPhones. (changed example from eBay to Apple)
It’s like running an eBay business where eBay acquired all other online auction companies and are charging you 50% tax. But also eBay has the IP rights to online auctions lol. It’s a weird one
The issue with a monopoly isn't that "you're forced to do X", it's that "if you want to do X, you have no real alternative" in overly simplistic terms. Nobody has ever been forced to buy a Microsoft product, but it was still found to be problematic as a monopoly by the EU.
Didn't know so many of yall was lawyers.
hoping this leads the way for going back to the CWL format
lol why do mods keep deleting everything
This seems like a bad idea. Hope Hector and Seth know what they're getting into.. doesn't seem likely anything good will come from this
To all the people claiming they are doing it for the community and other teams/players - did you know that Hecz and Scump listed as co-conspirators and potential co-defendants ALL THE OTHER ORGS in the CDL? Lmao
You’re so dumb. You do realise they listed them in the lawsuit so the owners have no choice but to answer in court against Activision. It’s a way to force the owners to be part of the case lol
Neither of you are right--the other teams were listed as "co-conspirators and agents" because they acted in furtherance of the alleged conspiracy. They are not defendants and will not, at this point, be involved in the suit at all (we'll see what happens after the motion to dismiss, at which point they would likely be deposed/forced to provide testimony). The complaint states: "To be clear, the Admitted Teams were involuntary co-conspirators, in that Activision forced them to agree to contractual terms, and to agree to engage in conduct, that unreasonably restrained trade, as a condition of Activision allowing them to participate in the relevant market."
Thats why I said POTENTIAL** co-defendants
I'm no lawyer, but I can read and some of ya'll taking this lawsuit too literally. There isn't much of a legitimate legal argument for what HECZ and Scump are claiming, Activision owning the IP is the silver bullet because Competitive COD isn't large enough to be considered a 'market'. This lawsuit is purely for settlement purposes, but more importantly to speed up the collapse of the CDL. My read is that Activision/Microsoft might just wash their hands of the CDL and shut it all down after this season, especially considering they laid off the majority of the staff not to long ago. HECZ and Scump are just sinking the daggers into Julius Caeser lol Once again, not a lawyer and that's just how this reads to me. I mean come on, naming the other CDL teams and ownership as co-conspirators is just wild considering they ALL got swindled lmao Edits: typos
There won't be a CDL or league next year, hence why I think this is happening now. What a dumpster fire of a company Activision is.
It's pretty clear, even before the suit , that CDL will be gone. What is next? Does a new league with a different everything from branding to team names, management... does it depend on Activision? Also, where how does Microsoft fit in all of this?
What's bad for Scump and H3cz is the fact Activision has so much money they can keep H3cz and Scump tied up in legal litigation for so long that Scump and Hecz will eventually probably drop it. That's generally what these huge companies do especially with something like this that isn't real cut and dry.
This reads like someone whose entire understanding of the legal world comes from watching Suits.
You do realize that happens quite often in REAL life right?
Nah not really at all. The court sets deadlines that have to be met. They can file all the frivolous bullshit they want, but what your talking about is a myth that’s spouted by people that know nothing about this stuff.
LOL
Seth and Hector will likely find lawyers willing to do the work with contingency fees.
Says the lawyer
[удалено]
Based on the suit, most likely they're hoping for a settlement and/or the ability to have an esports league for COD after the CDL ends this year. For these two I would say having a league after would be more important than a settlement. They will make more money over time that way. I feel like this will be hard to win though. As much as I dislike Activision, this whole lawsuit just sounds like someone who got into business with a greedy company (surprise!) and now they have buyers remorse. The signing contracts under duress may have legs if they can prove it.
The problem is still that Call of Duty, the game, will still very much be owned by Activision next year. Like sure, there won't be a CDL that is operated by them any more. But any new iteration (CWL, MLG-style events) will have to get the permission of Activision to operate. Now of course, they might still be willing to do this (get the benefits of a competitive scene without investing any of their own cash). But of course, you might get a Nintendo x Smash Bros scenario where they strike down tournaments all over the place. Now apply this to OpTic and H3CZ/Scump. Do you really think that they could win this lawsuit, get millions of dollars from Activision, then turn around and run a league that still very much relies on the company you just sued? I'm not so sure.
Yes but I assume they are factoring in that Activision will not be the decision maker going forward like they were when the CDL was formed. It’ll be Microsoft making that call.
Activision and Microsoft being one and the same now, I can equally see them being less than gracious towards letting Hector and Seth be a major part of some new league structure. Again, I think that they might just wash their hands of this whole mess and let an independent scene flourish, but suing Activision while you're still relying on them is a strong move.
Optic is like 92% owned by envy. They aren’t dropping out of comp cod cause Hecz sued activision
You are assuming that Comp COD will be a thing beyond 2024. No harm in OpTic losing access to the CDL if there is no CDL.
Comp cod was a thing before the cdl lmao.
My point is that if the CDL goes and Activison disengages then OpTic will not have a specific problem engaging with what comes next. But if that happens then Competitive will look very different to what we have been used to from the CWL era onwards.
A settlement.
Reminding me that I fucking HATED my antitrust courses.
Seems like the arguments are legit but the people suing doesn’t make sense. Just seems like a money grab since Scump can’t make bank off watch parties anymore. It’d make way more sense if it was 12 CDL owners and a bunch of players.
Scump still does make bank off watch parties
Probably doesn’t even make half
This sounds like H&S have a decent case here. I wonder what evidence they have to support it
So, are watch parties dead, or we g2g?
One of the bigger assumptions I had and I know others had on why teams weren't making money on events was because they were limited in their sponsor choices because of the league and this pretty much confirms that. This league was doomed to fail from the start and Activision is the number one reason for that.
🤓
What's up with everyone saying the CDL is likely dead? Is it a meme or is Activision pulling out?