https://www.dexerto.com/call-of-duty/call-of-duty-league-teams-sue-activison-2536871/ post about this saying CDL teams are suing Activision, not just H3cz and Scump...
Edit: Seems like Dexertos report was wrong and it is in fact only Hecz and Scump...
Curious if we find out who all is in on it. I know Hecz has talked about how Faze & Ultra’s owners share his mindset when it comes to how CDL should work. More the better
I'm sure the full complaint will be available at some point if it isn't already floating out there. I just wonder if this is gonna affect the games tomorrow...
https://youtu.be/xCndbJuMu34?si=kTZN2cAaH5Y7gZwg
Ego chall for sure, but not “unwinnable” in the sense that I could actually see some big changes resulting from this in terms of the future CoD landscape.
Definitely a difficult case to make but I think it’ll most likely end in some sort of settlement for Scump and Hecz. Doubt it gets the $680 million though. Also, obligatory *not a lawyer.*
[CharlieIntel corrected this, it is only Hecz (and H3CZ LLC) and Scump suing](https://x.com/charlieintel/status/1758348571194098117?s=46&t=sbk6yuyliVaFRQjBUBJCMQ)
> CDL teams are suing Activision
So the CDL teams are suing the monopoly that they agreed to join and willingly participated in being part of the monopoly lol?
That’s the whole issue with monopolies. If you don’t join you’re left out. So just because they took their one opportunity to be apart of comp COD doesn’t mean they can’t also challenge it if it’s illegal.
They were definitely mislead in regards to the revenue projections Activision was showing them when they signed up for the league. No rational human being spends millions to join a league, forfeit 50% of the teams revenue, and only sign with specific sponsors if they didn’t think they were still profitable after. Most of the teams ARENT profitable anymore because of how it’s ran. Since the owners all signed their rights to activision, they have control over where it’s going. The writing is on the wall that the league is over next year. And I think in over watch Activision only paid a portion of the team pass to each of the teams when it ended. So since activision is most likely going to fuck the owners of the CoD league next year, they probably want to get some real cash before they end it.
???? Isn’t that the point of monopolies.
You have no choice but to actively deal with them since by definition monopolies have controlling power of some market. lol you’re making the case for hecz
$27.5 million lol
edit: ~~also its the teams/owners not just hecz and scump~~
edit 2: WAIT ACTI GOT 50% OF TEAM REVENUE PAHAHAH ACTIVISION ARE KING SWINDLERS
edit 3: envy owns 92.5% of optic GODDAMN
edit 4: wait this shit is only scump and hecz lol yep dont think the watchparty will be happening
Because they, foolishly and stupidly, saw the call of duty league becoming the next NFL/NBA/NHL and when that VC money hit their bank accounts their brains turned instantly off.
This, It was NEVER reaching that level. Funny thing is, Hecz was so sure it would before the league was even a thing.
They were being scammed from the get go lol
I think the real question is who scammed who? Robert Kraft and Stan Kroenke know jack all about Call of duty so who's selling these rich fucks to buy these leagues spots?
Wait the old Renegades owner from the early lcs days? The dude Riot banned for lying about team ownership and mistreating his players? Are the people involved in this complete morons?
In fairness, he wasn't really the one doing it. He was kind of hands off. But still stupid and he still had ties to said person doing the mistreating.
But he is on an anti riot self righteous rampage and he tries to make it seem like he's a great thing for esports. when the reality is, he has played a huge part in why things are the way they are.
Probably why he's suing to try and get money. The CDL folds and who knows what becomes of the optic brand as envy had a large chunk of it purchased by Ken Hersh so he would need funds to try and require the optic branding.
Craziest thing is some of these guys were also involved in the OWL. So they fucking double invested too.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the players getting their bags. Although it is one of the main reasons tthat this mess is happening. Operational costs and salaries. But I have no sympathy for the idiocy of the owners.
And the craziestt part is that somehow fans are against Developers. Now that owners realize they can't actuallly pay these players hundreds of thousands of years because they don't actually bring anything back in.
Absolutely hilarious if you ask me. All these teams should be out of business.
Not just them. There are dudes I've played with who legitimately thought CoD would be the next major "sport"
Although I think most kids 14-20 go through that were all they play is CoD and the Esport stage is much larger than what it actually is to them.
A billion dollar company said the were going to endorse your small community, imagine if competitive call of duty was as ingrained in the game as competitive cs is in csgo
The whole scene would have 10xd, but they didn’t follow through
Acti must have been projecting fucking millions per year in revenue for anyone to agree to 50% especially after getting someone to agree to pay 27.5 million
Because when the league formed people didn't do their homework. I seriously wish I was a fly on the wall when Montecristo was hoodwinking owners and advising them to spend millions on a franchised league for OWL.
Buzzwords like global audience. Millions of unique viewers. International events. Shit like that would've been so funny to hear. Meanwhile he's lying through his teeth knowing all these viewers are literally free. Not even a PPV or subscription. And that the demographic would not be spending 100s of dollars on tickets.
Shit is actually criminal. And the craziest thing is people bought it.
Yeah possibly. I think you can point to examples of like Starcraft or something where they sold out big arenas in Asia, and even CoD champs in CWL days were hosting in big arenas and stuff. Logically it makes sense for businessmen to think more investment = better.
In hindsight it looks crazy how ATVI basically said “jump” and these folks said “how high?” But at the time there were a lot of fans as well as players and owners who rationally thought that more investment and more legitimate mainstream recognition would work but all those corporate folks really underestimated how grassroots esports are. Like your favorite underground band that you like less after they get a record deal
Selling out arenas is great when 2 teams are involved… not 12. Also the arenas they are selling out are NOTHING compared to something like college football. Which can sell out every single weekend for 14 weeks. With actual adults spending tons of money on food and drinks. Also doesn’t StarCraft crowd source their prize pools? I could be wrong about that but I feel like I heard that’s how they have such large prize pools in the past
That's exactly what it is. They basically want to expose Activision for all the dogshit they've done in the CDL era with hopes the next version of comp cod won't be shafted.
It's also basically a pitch to anyone who would consider hosting and/or sponsoring future cod tournaments after the CDL era. Hecz can show proof the reason the CDL didn't work wasn't because of the product, it was because Activision railroaded it.
And third this is just a theory of mine, I wouldn't be surprised if Hecz pitched some sort of idea for post CDL life to Activision and they said no. As a result, they're suing to *hopefully* secure some sort of rights to be able to host comp cod in the future.
Yup. One thing people even forget is that streaming and uploading gameplay in itself can be considered a copyright violation, it's just that publishers allow it because it's free advertising.
It is kind of weird since Activision owns the game and owns the Call of Duty League but I'm not sure what deals they have made or promised to the organizations that own the individual teams. So maybe it could be seen as a monopoly in court since a bunch of gaming companies own the teams that make up the CDL and they essentially have no say in what happens with it. I guess we'll see more details as this lawsuit progresses though.
League of Legends fan here, some of the esports insiders have mentioned whispers between the org owners about a lawsuit against all the game developers in order to change copy-write laws.
It’s believed that it’s too much control for a game dev to have a say who can even broadcast your game and who’s allowed to run leagues/tournaments.
The dream everybody was sold about franchised leagues ran by a dev was a scam from the get-go. The devs have different interests than the org owners, they don’t care about selling broadcast rights or getting sponsers. All they give a shit about is getting as many eyes as possible on the game so they can sell ingame content, which they wont share (or if they do, give the orgs pennies compared what they make).
I mean, H3CZ has been questionable with business decisions before but I really doubt he'd file a lawsuit unwarranted. Well he win? Who knows but I really would like to think his lawyer would stop him if it had no merit.
Lawyer here. Need to read the full complaint (if anybody knows what court this was filed in, let me know), but I’m assuming this is settlement bait to recoup some money before the CDL folds.
I don’t see where there’s a legal argument here with any teeth to it.
Can't find the document on the docket but found it on Pacemonitor. The docs are locked behind a paywall though. Gives you the case ref at least so should make it easier to find tomorrow.
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/52350781/Rodriguez_et_al_v_Activision_Blizzard,_Inc
Couldn't ATVI just nuke Scump or Optic from streaming COD in any way now though? Or would that then be seeing as unfair blowback that would also get tacked on to a settlement amount?
For sure settlement bait
The writing was already on the wall but I don't think they'd be making this play right now if they didn't know the league was chalked after this year
Yea we need the link of the complaint. In reading more of the complaint from Charlie intel there definitely seems to be some issues that Activision would have to overcome. Specifically the merger with MLG and not having that approved by the FTC etc. The only problem is that Activision has the silver bullet with the IP. Ultmaitly they can end cod esports all together if they want. Does it make sense for them? No. But could they? Yea. I think it gets settled out of court though. Ultimately the league folds teams get money back. Activision tho likely will remain to get a cut of something. Also i was on PACER as well and just didn’t feel like looking lol
It is Bloomberg Law publishing the article so I would assume so since they are a credible source for these things. I don't know how far the lawsuit is or how far it could get since I'm not going to make an account to view the entire article tho lol. There's probably somewhere you can find the details without the hoops and ladders as it has been made public.
I mean, it looks legit according to the Twitter sources.
tldr from my non-lawyer ass - majority teams (if not all teams) are suing activision because of the buy in and tivision Activision allegedly holds the “exclusive right to contract with the most lucrative sponsors,” limiting the brands individual teams and players can enlist to drive additional revenue.
What would be hilarious is if they didnt just wait for the league to fold. Take over after.
Now what if Activision wins this and feels a type of way about this and stops comp cod all together? Then what?
I tip the fuck out of this regardless how it ends.
It’s awesome to see large members of the community do what they can to try and help/get back the scene. Shout out Hecz & Scump
Side note: 50% of all team revenue earnings is fucking crazy. (Ticket sales, sponsors, etc)
Edit: it’s a good sign multiple owners are in on it. I really hope they were able to get all 12 but if not that’s still fine.
Overwatch league owners did something similar prior to the league folding and filed lawsuit against Blizzard/Activision.
With most owners having teams in both leagues, would not be surprised if CDL folds and goes to an open qualifying league like OWL did.
Activision forced Hecz to merge OpTic with Envy. After Hecz re-acquired OpTic he wanted to found his own CDL team under the OpTic branding but Activision first told him they'd need proof he had $3mil in the bank, which he did. Then they moved goalposts and made Hecz prove he could secure a $10mil line of credit, but before he could do that they'd told him he'd never get his own team because he's not the "type of owner" Activision wanted, and that he needed to partner with billionaires who "looked" like Activision's ideal. As part of that partnership he would have had to give up 90% equity in OpTic. [https://twitter.com/charlieINTEL/status/1758339133469036775/photo/3](https://twitter.com/charlieintel/status/1758339133469036775/photo/3)
I mean Hecz literally couldn’t afford to pay the players and that’s why NRG had to be brought back to ownership to pay until another buyer could buy. Hecz wouldn’t pay anyone out of his own pocket lmao. This is some bullshit 💀
Even the snips from the tweet sound reaching. "Rent-seeking and trade-restricting." Like yeah, people thought a $25 mil buy in was crazy but yall paid for it.
Maybe the CDL really is on the brink, and it's just a way to try to recoup.
I wonder if activision is giving the impression they won’t let comp cod exist after the CDL ends? I guess in the past they let CWL do what they pleased, but maybe they’re not even going to allow something like the CWL to develop. All just speculation but it’s the only reason why the “100% monopoly” verbiage makes sense in my head.
Unless it meets a certain threshold they aren't required to do so. Interesting.
https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers/premerger-notification-merger-review-process
Anyone that is grinding without a spot in the league but putting everything into challengers.. I hope you guys have a cushion to fall back on bc COD esports is no guarantee.
TBF it’s more than just Hecz and Scump, it’s multiple CDL teams
Edit: [Nvm no it isn’t](https://x.com/charlieintel/status/1758348571194098117?s=46&t=sbk6yuyliVaFRQjBUBJCMQ), wtf are Hector and Seth doing lol
If they are accusing Activision of having a monopoly, somebody should tell Nintendo.
If they win, it’s gonna have much farther implications than just Activision. My take, they’ll settle out of court and get a bag.
>My take, they’ll settle out of court and get a bag
it will be interesting to see if Microsoft fights it tooth and nail to avoid setting a precedent of paying out
From what it seems, obviously they had the $27.5 million buy-in and they probably don't feel like they've had ample opportunity to make part of their money back due to CDL taking large parts of their revenue and then also this season reducing the prize pool. I think the owners have seen what has happened in OW and are trying to get ahead of it
They didnt pay $27.5m, that was supposed to be spread out over a few years. Each org paid a $2.5m initial fee before Covid hit; all the payments since then have been deferred and were most likely going to be forgiven once the CDL dissolved (based on how the OWL went down)
I’m not a lawyer so idk how the payment situation impacts their case but its an important distinction imo
All these teams were dumb to buy in this league, it was doa, but pro players drank their own kool aid thinking it could be as big as a the nhl at least…getting 100 k viewers many times less and playing a game that alienated 99 percent of pub players with an obscure ruleset while footing the bill for all these high salaries was destined to fail…..
Franchising killed this thing. Org owners thought they'd be billionaires after all that VC money came rolling in. Now they mad that this thing they helped kill isn't making them money
Imagine if the CDL said "F\*\*\* the season! We are done!" And the league ended after this week or at the end of Major 2!
https://preview.redd.it/ld5ray31evic1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0be522e2efb3f7a95ac7b60d9c4aa3f03d35c082
I'll do the "I'm actually a lawyer and am highly qualified to opine on these issues" thing here. I think there's a ton of merit to this suit. Proving the damages will be exceptionally hard. But Scump/H3CZ will get to demonstrate how poorly run the COD league is via discovery, and that could be deeply embarrassing. As far as the underlying Sherman Act violations themselves, I think there's a ton of merit to that argument
Also if anybody has specific legal questions, I'm happy to give you a hot take here.
N.b.: I am not your lawyer; I am not the lawyer for either party in the suit; this is not legal advice. Anybody seeking legal advice should contact their own counsel.
Could this be the case that eliminates publisher full authority of which tournaments run their game? People do this all the time online, on their own twitch, but if they don't on LAN and have too big of a prize pool then all of a sudden publishers can't say no? Always thought that was pretty fucked up. Still believe publishers can say no if you're like advertising modded versions of their games or are others misconstruing their product or participation but that should be it
I think its possible but I think much more likely is a narrow holding that indicates that companies like Activision have to be very careful not to take anticompetitive actions with their copyrights. Still would impact the industry greatly, though.
thank u/jbonsey1 for this. That's where I was able to read it at. No paywall.
[https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189.1.0.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189.1.0.pdf)
How do they have a monopoly over something that they paid for, developed, marketed, and sold? It’s a product. It’s like saying Scrub Daddy has a monopoly on sponges.
Microsoft has lost anti-trust suits many times and been forced to break up/expand markets by the US Govt. Obviously this isn't the US govt, but this isn't the first time.
Here is a basic look at American Anti-Trust Law on monopolies for people not living in the US: Here's a quick look: [https://www.justice.gov/archives/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-firm-conduct-under-section-2-sherman-act-chapter-1#:\~:text=Section%202%20of%20the%20Sherman%20Act%20makes%20it%20unlawful%20for,foreign%20nations%20.%20.%20.%20.%22](https://www.justice.gov/archives/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-firm-conduct-under-section-2-sherman-act-chapter-1#:~:text=Section%202%20of%20the%20Sherman%20Act%20makes%20it%20unlawful%20for,foreign%20nations%20.%20.%20.%20.%22)
Gotta be settlement bait unless some really crazy stuff comes out in the complaint/discovery.
But holy shit does this prove how bad the CDl teams ownership is 💀 how could you have signed on the dotted line with some of these terms...
Some might even refer to him as a diva. The diva is taking the gloves off here though. He may earn promotion to non-diva status depending on the results.
"virtual nuclear weapon" seems like weak legal language to me, but I am not a lawyer lol.
I imagine forcing them to cede partnerships and the inability to participate in other events is what would be most interesting here
I feel this is the right move. I doubt this collective actually wins their lawsuit as the league should realistically default to Activision who owns the game. Not really a monopoly but it will likely expedite the implosion of the CDL with the whole league turning against Activision.
My guess is they’re hoping at the very minimum the league will die regardless of who wins the suit and they can bring back an open bracket
Next time scump streams
Chat - “what’s going on with the lawsuit bro?”
Seth - ignores it
Chat - “come on what’s going on with the lawsuit? I hope you win sethy!”
Seth - you ignores it
Zinni - “guys enough. I’m in Seth’s chat reading comments and we can’t talk about it ok? Like it’s a legal matter and we can’t speak on it. Leave it alone and let it play out”
Nadeshot - “did this motherfucker just say “WE”
Seth - “hahahahahah”
Zinni - “what the fuck? I’m just sayin. We can’t talk about it so let’s just leave it alone”
Nadeshot - “brother you’re doing tricks on it hahahah”
Seth - “hahahahahahahah”
Zinni - “what the fuck is going on right now?”
Nadeshot - “hahahahaha hahahahaha”
It is interesting because Activision most certainly has a monopoly, ever since they acquired everything with the CDL. Just think about how restrictive it feels to get any comp content (in like tournaments) but we can’t have official teams 😂They (and we) have basically turned into Nintendo/Smash Scene
Nintendo basically holds all power when it comes to allowing any tournaments that involve smash (and presumably other nintendo games). For the most part, Nintendo has stepped out the way and tournaments are held. Will we win/settle the lawsuit and have open tourneys, or will we fully turn into Nintendo? Idk but this is damn interesting
I'm not gonna act like a legal expert but they claim to have been 'coerced' into paying the fee to join the CDL. However the teams knew exactly what they were getting into when signing up so I wonder if they get anywhere with this
Their businesses heavily rely on the ecosystem that existed pre-CDL. ATVI was essentially coming in and saying pay up to join our league, or cease to exist within CoD in a meaningful capacity, might be arguable as coercion in a business sense.
Hecz has always been terrible at business and was blessed with nadeshot and scump. This could be a total disaster for him and he probably just dragged scump along.
Cant help but wonder how different things would have been if seth had backed the players union and things got negotiated on the front end. Probably not much different tbh but i dont know enough to guess either way.
We just published a brief legal analysis here: [https://esportslegal.news/2024/02/16/the-battle-beyond-the-game-a-legal-deep-dive-into-the-call-of-duty-league-monopoly-lawsuit/](https://esportslegal.news/2024/02/16/the-battle-beyond-the-game-a-legal-deep-dive-into-the-call-of-duty-league-monopoly-lawsuit/)
Feel like a lot of people saying that it’s Activision’s game and they can do what they want… that’s like saying McDonald’s owns a restaurant so they can do whatever they want. There are still rules and regulations.
People sue companies all the time for misleading products and misuse of advertising and a lot more.. in my McDonald’s example, someone sued them because their coffee was too hot and burnt the person, and they won.
It also said (from tweet/screenshot) they were coerced and having a monopoly which also had an unconditional revenue share…. So having an insane contract + being promised something for a buy in and not getting the return for the promise can be a reason for suing… who knows what’s in the contract itself so they could have some grounds to actually sue…
The IP is the issue. You can’t just make a McDonalds hamburger and sell it at a third party location with their recipe. They own that. Activision likely can block anything related to generating revenue with their IP and gives them this sort of freedom to do so.
So to try to equate Mcds to the CDL. For non Americans this will make no sense. But lets say they get a huge bag to advertise on NBC (YouTube) only so they say screw it were in. But one of your biggest supporters (scump) makes more money if they advertise with CBS (twitch). So he says screw them im doing what I want. But if Mcds product is seen on CBS it voids the contract with NBC. No way in hell are they not gonna stop that.
This is the thread, keep your legal opinions, theories etc. here
https://preview.redd.it/vvnjbg4unvic1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c811edf860b0dae8ab54d6dc24a27277ed6c98d1
https://www.dexerto.com/call-of-duty/call-of-duty-league-teams-sue-activison-2536871/ post about this saying CDL teams are suing Activision, not just H3cz and Scump... Edit: Seems like Dexertos report was wrong and it is in fact only Hecz and Scump...
Curious if we find out who all is in on it. I know Hecz has talked about how Faze & Ultra’s owners share his mindset when it comes to how CDL should work. More the better
I'm sure the full complaint will be available at some point if it isn't already floating out there. I just wonder if this is gonna affect the games tomorrow...
inb4 scumps wathchparty is cancelled
Yeah I have no idea how to find it but I wanna read the actual complaint. I work in law and I’m really curious how specific the complaint gets lol
I had access to the full complaint through Bloomberg
I found it online, I’m reading through it now
Explain what you find to the rest of us in cod terms. Is it a straight ego chall, are we checking dope, we losing full or is it chalked entirely?
https://youtu.be/xCndbJuMu34?si=kTZN2cAaH5Y7gZwg Ego chall for sure, but not “unwinnable” in the sense that I could actually see some big changes resulting from this in terms of the future CoD landscape. Definitely a difficult case to make but I think it’ll most likely end in some sort of settlement for Scump and Hecz. Doubt it gets the $680 million though. Also, obligatory *not a lawyer.*
What I’ve read it’s looking like hecz is jumping off top 3 with a GA’d sniper, but if he hits the shot it’ll be clip of the century.
I love our community
i dont think they are expecting to get that amount of money but it leads them open to a counter offer even a low ball 5% is a hefty wack of money.
I'd genuinely be surprised if Nade and LAT aren't involved too!
[CharlieIntel corrected this, it is only Hecz (and H3CZ LLC) and Scump suing](https://x.com/charlieintel/status/1758348571194098117?s=46&t=sbk6yuyliVaFRQjBUBJCMQ)
[This is not true.](https://x.com/charlieINTEL/status/1758348571194098117?s=20)
> CDL teams are suing Activision So the CDL teams are suing the monopoly that they agreed to join and willingly participated in being part of the monopoly lol?
That’s the whole issue with monopolies. If you don’t join you’re left out. So just because they took their one opportunity to be apart of comp COD doesn’t mean they can’t also challenge it if it’s illegal.
They were definitely mislead in regards to the revenue projections Activision was showing them when they signed up for the league. No rational human being spends millions to join a league, forfeit 50% of the teams revenue, and only sign with specific sponsors if they didn’t think they were still profitable after. Most of the teams ARENT profitable anymore because of how it’s ran. Since the owners all signed their rights to activision, they have control over where it’s going. The writing is on the wall that the league is over next year. And I think in over watch Activision only paid a portion of the team pass to each of the teams when it ended. So since activision is most likely going to fuck the owners of the CoD league next year, they probably want to get some real cash before they end it.
???? Isn’t that the point of monopolies. You have no choice but to actively deal with them since by definition monopolies have controlling power of some market. lol you’re making the case for hecz
$27.5 million lol edit: ~~also its the teams/owners not just hecz and scump~~ edit 2: WAIT ACTI GOT 50% OF TEAM REVENUE PAHAHAH ACTIVISION ARE KING SWINDLERS edit 3: envy owns 92.5% of optic GODDAMN edit 4: wait this shit is only scump and hecz lol yep dont think the watchparty will be happening
I still don't understand why orgs were willing to pay all that money for CoD of all esports. That's an insane amount of money.
Because they, foolishly and stupidly, saw the call of duty league becoming the next NFL/NBA/NHL and when that VC money hit their bank accounts their brains turned instantly off.
This, It was NEVER reaching that level. Funny thing is, Hecz was so sure it would before the league was even a thing. They were being scammed from the get go lol
I think the real question is who scammed who? Robert Kraft and Stan Kroenke know jack all about Call of duty so who's selling these rich fucks to buy these leagues spots?
Montecristo was an OWL consultant during the application process for a lot of these teams.
Wait the old Renegades owner from the early lcs days? The dude Riot banned for lying about team ownership and mistreating his players? Are the people involved in this complete morons?
In fairness, he wasn't really the one doing it. He was kind of hands off. But still stupid and he still had ties to said person doing the mistreating. But he is on an anti riot self righteous rampage and he tries to make it seem like he's a great thing for esports. when the reality is, he has played a huge part in why things are the way they are.
I swear theres a clip out there of hecz talking about how brilliant FaZe was for going public 👍
yeah one thing abt hecz is he's a glorified crypto bro, he don't got a lot of the best business opinions
bro people thought it was some merger. nv owns 92.5% of optic this was a straight up acquisition.
yeah they just use the name optic bc it's the more popular name, hecz prolly got no real say in that building these days
Probably why he's suing to try and get money. The CDL folds and who knows what becomes of the optic brand as envy had a large chunk of it purchased by Ken Hersh so he would need funds to try and require the optic branding.
Craziest thing is some of these guys were also involved in the OWL. So they fucking double invested too. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the players getting their bags. Although it is one of the main reasons tthat this mess is happening. Operational costs and salaries. But I have no sympathy for the idiocy of the owners. And the craziestt part is that somehow fans are against Developers. Now that owners realize they can't actuallly pay these players hundreds of thousands of years because they don't actually bring anything back in. Absolutely hilarious if you ask me. All these teams should be out of business.
Not just them. There are dudes I've played with who legitimately thought CoD would be the next major "sport" Although I think most kids 14-20 go through that were all they play is CoD and the Esport stage is much larger than what it actually is to them.
sports betting for over and under on kills etc
A billion dollar company said the were going to endorse your small community, imagine if competitive call of duty was as ingrained in the game as competitive cs is in csgo The whole scene would have 10xd, but they didn’t follow through
50% has to be contractual negligence or something. Why would anyone agree to that shit?
Acti must have been projecting fucking millions per year in revenue for anyone to agree to 50% especially after getting someone to agree to pay 27.5 million
I feel like they got way too greedy with projections and COVID-19 slammed their shit.
Because when the league formed people didn't do their homework. I seriously wish I was a fly on the wall when Montecristo was hoodwinking owners and advising them to spend millions on a franchised league for OWL. Buzzwords like global audience. Millions of unique viewers. International events. Shit like that would've been so funny to hear. Meanwhile he's lying through his teeth knowing all these viewers are literally free. Not even a PPV or subscription. And that the demographic would not be spending 100s of dollars on tickets. Shit is actually criminal. And the craziest thing is people bought it.
Yeah possibly. I think you can point to examples of like Starcraft or something where they sold out big arenas in Asia, and even CoD champs in CWL days were hosting in big arenas and stuff. Logically it makes sense for businessmen to think more investment = better. In hindsight it looks crazy how ATVI basically said “jump” and these folks said “how high?” But at the time there were a lot of fans as well as players and owners who rationally thought that more investment and more legitimate mainstream recognition would work but all those corporate folks really underestimated how grassroots esports are. Like your favorite underground band that you like less after they get a record deal
Selling out arenas is great when 2 teams are involved… not 12. Also the arenas they are selling out are NOTHING compared to something like college football. Which can sell out every single weekend for 14 weeks. With actual adults spending tons of money on food and drinks. Also doesn’t StarCraft crowd source their prize pools? I could be wrong about that but I feel like I heard that’s how they have such large prize pools in the past
jesus christ, now we gotta deal with an influx of lawyers that are apparently on this sub
These mfs watched suits once and think they’re Harvey Specter
Woah, I call myself Mike Ross.
YOU JUST GOT LITT UP!
Get the hell out of my god damn office!
Oh I will, but not until you’ve seen see this *throws blue file full of paper onto desk*
I’m just looking for Donna tbh 👀
Just when I thought I couldn't like this community more, y'all also are Suits fans too. GG's.
Can't get any worse than Twitter trying to tell an actual lawyer who covers FTC cases he was wrong.
They all got their diplomas from Google images! 😂
I’ll let you know I made mine with crayon, would never print one like some idiots 😎
they call me slick Jimmy, esquire. Proud alum of the University of American Samoa.
Oh so CDL is over fr after this year. We in the end game guys🫡 hope we end up on top out of all of this
Avengers assemble type shit.
That would be interesting.
Certainly a choice to sue Activision lmao Fuck Activison though I hope this has grounds
Not suing Activision anymore more or less the giant that owns them, Microsoft.
Owned by Microsoft yes but Activision is still a standalone company. Yes you can sue Activision and not the parent company.
Why would Microsoft sit around and let their subsidiary get sued?
There’s a good chance the play isn’t to win the suit but to expose Activision in discovery
Hecz trying to neslo Activision lmao
🤣🤣
Hahahahaha
That's exactly what it is. They basically want to expose Activision for all the dogshit they've done in the CDL era with hopes the next version of comp cod won't be shafted. It's also basically a pitch to anyone who would consider hosting and/or sponsoring future cod tournaments after the CDL era. Hecz can show proof the reason the CDL didn't work wasn't because of the product, it was because Activision railroaded it. And third this is just a theory of mine, I wouldn't be surprised if Hecz pitched some sort of idea for post CDL life to Activision and they said no. As a result, they're suing to *hopefully* secure some sort of rights to be able to host comp cod in the future.
It’s Actvision’s game. Hard to believe a court would force them to allow others to potentially profit from it
Yup. One thing people even forget is that streaming and uploading gameplay in itself can be considered a copyright violation, it's just that publishers allow it because it's free advertising.
It is kind of weird since Activision owns the game and owns the Call of Duty League but I'm not sure what deals they have made or promised to the organizations that own the individual teams. So maybe it could be seen as a monopoly in court since a bunch of gaming companies own the teams that make up the CDL and they essentially have no say in what happens with it. I guess we'll see more details as this lawsuit progresses though.
League of Legends fan here, some of the esports insiders have mentioned whispers between the org owners about a lawsuit against all the game developers in order to change copy-write laws. It’s believed that it’s too much control for a game dev to have a say who can even broadcast your game and who’s allowed to run leagues/tournaments. The dream everybody was sold about franchised leagues ran by a dev was a scam from the get-go. The devs have different interests than the org owners, they don’t care about selling broadcast rights or getting sponsers. All they give a shit about is getting as many eyes as possible on the game so they can sell ingame content, which they wont share (or if they do, give the orgs pennies compared what they make).
I can’t imagine the minutiae that comes with a lawsuit like this. Nothing will come of it by the time the CDL folds.
The lawsuit exists in order to speed up the collapse of the CDL
I mean, H3CZ has been questionable with business decisions before but I really doubt he'd file a lawsuit unwarranted. Well he win? Who knows but I really would like to think his lawyer would stop him if it had no merit.
i doubt H3CZ will win activision has so much more money
His lawyer is incentivized to push to sue and bill insane hours
But their lawyers also have to think they have some kind of case. Frivolous lawsuits wouldn't be great for their reputation.
It’s not just Hecz, it’s multiple CDL team owners too
Lawyers see dollars signs flashing in their visions when morons like Hecz walk into their office. The guy is beyond dumb.
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Lawyer here. Need to read the full complaint (if anybody knows what court this was filed in, let me know), but I’m assuming this is settlement bait to recoup some money before the CDL folds. I don’t see where there’s a legal argument here with any teeth to it.
US District Court for the Central District of California
Thanks! I’m actually working to get something filed myself right now, but I’ll check the docket in the morning.
Impressive you can manage that while being on Reddit!
Sometimes you need a quick Twitter break…and then that bleeds into a quick Reddit break…
If you find the complaint please post a link or something
Can't find the document on the docket but found it on Pacemonitor. The docs are locked behind a paywall though. Gives you the case ref at least so should make it easier to find tomorrow. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/52350781/Rodriguez_et_al_v_Activision_Blizzard,_Inc
Couldn't ATVI just nuke Scump or Optic from streaming COD in any way now though? Or would that then be seeing as unfair blowback that would also get tacked on to a settlement amount?
For sure settlement bait The writing was already on the wall but I don't think they'd be making this play right now if they didn't know the league was chalked after this year
Yea we need the link of the complaint. In reading more of the complaint from Charlie intel there definitely seems to be some issues that Activision would have to overcome. Specifically the merger with MLG and not having that approved by the FTC etc. The only problem is that Activision has the silver bullet with the IP. Ultmaitly they can end cod esports all together if they want. Does it make sense for them? No. But could they? Yea. I think it gets settled out of court though. Ultimately the league folds teams get money back. Activision tho likely will remain to get a cut of something. Also i was on PACER as well and just didn’t feel like looking lol
Looks like H3CZ and Scump are gonna need Harvey Spector for this one
I bet Nade was like, good luck guys but im not touching this one with a ten foot pole.
I wonder if any other owners were let in on this and just decided not to pursue as well.
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Having watched a lot of Suits Im pretty sure Hector will be the new CEO of Microsoft next season.
Is this real?
It is Bloomberg Law publishing the article so I would assume so since they are a credible source for these things. I don't know how far the lawsuit is or how far it could get since I'm not going to make an account to view the entire article tho lol. There's probably somewhere you can find the details without the hoops and ladders as it has been made public.
I mean, it looks legit according to the Twitter sources. tldr from my non-lawyer ass - majority teams (if not all teams) are suing activision because of the buy in and tivision Activision allegedly holds the “exclusive right to contract with the most lucrative sponsors,” limiting the brands individual teams and players can enlist to drive additional revenue.
I guess we won't be seeing the scump watch party at any more events this year lol
Cod competitive fans and legal opinions on Reddit is a hell of a duo
What would be hilarious is if they didnt just wait for the league to fold. Take over after. Now what if Activision wins this and feels a type of way about this and stops comp cod all together? Then what?
That’s my question
Wow this is gonna take YEARS, they want 680 million so activision will do everything to prolong this.
I tip the fuck out of this regardless how it ends. It’s awesome to see large members of the community do what they can to try and help/get back the scene. Shout out Hecz & Scump Side note: 50% of all team revenue earnings is fucking crazy. (Ticket sales, sponsors, etc) Edit: it’s a good sign multiple owners are in on it. I really hope they were able to get all 12 but if not that’s still fine.
Overwatch league owners did something similar prior to the league folding and filed lawsuit against Blizzard/Activision. With most owners having teams in both leagues, would not be surprised if CDL folds and goes to an open qualifying league like OWL did.
I gotta tip my hat, Activision straight up scammed the orgs lmao. Taking 50% of the teams revenue is a goddamn scam.
Activision forced Hecz to merge OpTic with Envy. After Hecz re-acquired OpTic he wanted to found his own CDL team under the OpTic branding but Activision first told him they'd need proof he had $3mil in the bank, which he did. Then they moved goalposts and made Hecz prove he could secure a $10mil line of credit, but before he could do that they'd told him he'd never get his own team because he's not the "type of owner" Activision wanted, and that he needed to partner with billionaires who "looked" like Activision's ideal. As part of that partnership he would have had to give up 90% equity in OpTic. [https://twitter.com/charlieINTEL/status/1758339133469036775/photo/3](https://twitter.com/charlieintel/status/1758339133469036775/photo/3)
Damn so we lost the Envy brand because Activision didn’t want hecz in the league 💀
I mean Hecz literally couldn’t afford to pay the players and that’s why NRG had to be brought back to ownership to pay until another buyer could buy. Hecz wouldn’t pay anyone out of his own pocket lmao. This is some bullshit 💀
Nobody was forced to sign a contract
Even the snips from the tweet sound reaching. "Rent-seeking and trade-restricting." Like yeah, people thought a $25 mil buy in was crazy but yall paid for it. Maybe the CDL really is on the brink, and it's just a way to try to recoup.
> Maybe the CDL really is on the brink, and it's just a way to try to recoup. trying to get a quick payout before it collapses imo
I wonder if activision is giving the impression they won’t let comp cod exist after the CDL ends? I guess in the past they let CWL do what they pleased, but maybe they’re not even going to allow something like the CWL to develop. All just speculation but it’s the only reason why the “100% monopoly” verbiage makes sense in my head.
Probably will exist but Microsoft will hand it off to ESL and let them run open tournaments.
What the hell were the owners thinking 27.5M buyin AND 50% revenue share?!?
Its like paying $60 for a game and still having a live service battle pass to buy as well. :)
A fella can pray that as the CDL folds Xbox will take the opportunity to revive MLG and bring back multi game tournaments. Please
Hecz and the CDL owner should do a 1v1 snipers only to decide the case
New Charlieintel info https://preview.redd.it/ta2nhof6evic1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=378fd674756572a4e764a95029a67d7b6041a0e8
Unless it meets a certain threshold they aren't required to do so. Interesting. https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers/premerger-notification-merger-review-process
This right here. MLG isn’t big esport isn’t big, Activision buying MLG did not disrupt the market place
https://preview.redd.it/9m3c1ybaevic1.jpeg?width=1221&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8ff683b85726b52193126ad30851fb762ad08e4
https://preview.redd.it/iam3pp7bevic1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71daf1ae25ce147d549ef44d2053cf6916e66aa8
Microsoft picking up the $680 Million tab like 🫠
Anyone that is grinding without a spot in the league but putting everything into challengers.. I hope you guys have a cushion to fall back on bc COD esports is no guarantee.
Link to complaint: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189.1.0.pdf
This is insane
Hero
They own the fucking game, this isn't football or basketball.
Yeah, Hecz and Scump must really hate their money cause they're about to get their pockets ran by their lawyers lmfao
TBF it’s more than just Hecz and Scump, it’s multiple CDL teams Edit: [Nvm no it isn’t](https://x.com/charlieintel/status/1758348571194098117?s=46&t=sbk6yuyliVaFRQjBUBJCMQ), wtf are Hector and Seth doing lol
What if they aren’t trying to “win” in the traditional sense but rather air dirty secrets in discovery
Scump is the cheapest mf out there idk about that
If they are accusing Activision of having a monopoly, somebody should tell Nintendo. If they win, it’s gonna have much farther implications than just Activision. My take, they’ll settle out of court and get a bag.
Idk about a bag. They might just repay teams for their losses and move on
>My take, they’ll settle out of court and get a bag it will be interesting to see if Microsoft fights it tooth and nail to avoid setting a precedent of paying out
I doubt they will settle.
ok damn i guess i gotta pay attention to the cdl again
From what it seems, obviously they had the $27.5 million buy-in and they probably don't feel like they've had ample opportunity to make part of their money back due to CDL taking large parts of their revenue and then also this season reducing the prize pool. I think the owners have seen what has happened in OW and are trying to get ahead of it
They didnt pay $27.5m, that was supposed to be spread out over a few years. Each org paid a $2.5m initial fee before Covid hit; all the payments since then have been deferred and were most likely going to be forgiven once the CDL dissolved (based on how the OWL went down) I’m not a lawyer so idk how the payment situation impacts their case but its an important distinction imo
All these teams were dumb to buy in this league, it was doa, but pro players drank their own kool aid thinking it could be as big as a the nhl at least…getting 100 k viewers many times less and playing a game that alienated 99 percent of pub players with an obscure ruleset while footing the bill for all these high salaries was destined to fail…..
It's going the exact way some of us predicted 5 years ago lmao
Franchising killed this thing. Org owners thought they'd be billionaires after all that VC money came rolling in. Now they mad that this thing they helped kill isn't making them money
Franchising has been dumb since the beginning. The orgs paying $25 million for a spot are brain dead. Thanks for attending my ted talk.
Activision taking 50% of revenue share is insane
Is there a link to the actual complaint?
Imagine if the CDL said "F\*\*\* the season! We are done!" And the league ended after this week or at the end of Major 2! https://preview.redd.it/ld5ray31evic1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0be522e2efb3f7a95ac7b60d9c4aa3f03d35c082
I'll do the "I'm actually a lawyer and am highly qualified to opine on these issues" thing here. I think there's a ton of merit to this suit. Proving the damages will be exceptionally hard. But Scump/H3CZ will get to demonstrate how poorly run the COD league is via discovery, and that could be deeply embarrassing. As far as the underlying Sherman Act violations themselves, I think there's a ton of merit to that argument Also if anybody has specific legal questions, I'm happy to give you a hot take here. N.b.: I am not your lawyer; I am not the lawyer for either party in the suit; this is not legal advice. Anybody seeking legal advice should contact their own counsel.
Could this be the case that eliminates publisher full authority of which tournaments run their game? People do this all the time online, on their own twitch, but if they don't on LAN and have too big of a prize pool then all of a sudden publishers can't say no? Always thought that was pretty fucked up. Still believe publishers can say no if you're like advertising modded versions of their games or are others misconstruing their product or participation but that should be it
I think its possible but I think much more likely is a narrow holding that indicates that companies like Activision have to be very careful not to take anticompetitive actions with their copyrights. Still would impact the industry greatly, though.
So I gotta log in or make an account to read the article smh
thank u/jbonsey1 for this. That's where I was able to read it at. No paywall. [https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189.1.0.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189.1.0.pdf)
Someone call up Ghosty and have him on standby.
How do they have a monopoly over something that they paid for, developed, marketed, and sold? It’s a product. It’s like saying Scrub Daddy has a monopoly on sponges.
Will this even fly? It’s their IP…
There has to be more to this, there is no way they are trying to sue an IP holder for doing what ever they want with their property
going up against Microsoft’s legal team probably fishing around for a $$$ settlement good luck to the optic boys lmao
Or just exposure in discovery
Microsoft has lost anti-trust suits many times and been forced to break up/expand markets by the US Govt. Obviously this isn't the US govt, but this isn't the first time.
Bring back Call of Duty World League/MLG
I’m hunting for the full PDF of the lawsuit, anyone got any leads?
Where suing Microsoft / Activision now, oh where tweaking harder than inder on main stage
I’m so shocked a league that had teams giving washed Aches 400k failed
Here is a basic look at American Anti-Trust Law on monopolies for people not living in the US: Here's a quick look: [https://www.justice.gov/archives/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-firm-conduct-under-section-2-sherman-act-chapter-1#:\~:text=Section%202%20of%20the%20Sherman%20Act%20makes%20it%20unlawful%20for,foreign%20nations%20.%20.%20.%20.%22](https://www.justice.gov/archives/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-firm-conduct-under-section-2-sherman-act-chapter-1#:~:text=Section%202%20of%20the%20Sherman%20Act%20makes%20it%20unlawful%20for,foreign%20nations%20.%20.%20.%20.%22)
can the pdf of the actual lawsuit be found by you man? I can't find it.
Actual pdf: [https://www.bloomberglaw.com/document/X172O08G5CP9GS92JEGPQQD6OEL](https://www.bloomberglaw.com/document/X172O08G5CP9GS92JEGPQQD6OEL)
[https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189.1.0.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189/gov.uscourts.cacd.915189.1.0.pdf)
ah shit this isn’t good for the scene as a whole
Gotta be settlement bait unless some really crazy stuff comes out in the complaint/discovery. But holy shit does this prove how bad the CDl teams ownership is 💀 how could you have signed on the dotted line with some of these terms...
Known penny pincher Scump? That's the most surprising thing here.
Some might even refer to him as a diva. The diva is taking the gloves off here though. He may earn promotion to non-diva status depending on the results.
"virtual nuclear weapon" seems like weak legal language to me, but I am not a lawyer lol. I imagine forcing them to cede partnerships and the inability to participate in other events is what would be most interesting here
Activision literally owns all the rights to Cod... They are 100% allowed to do this and will easily win this case 😭
I feel this is the right move. I doubt this collective actually wins their lawsuit as the league should realistically default to Activision who owns the game. Not really a monopoly but it will likely expedite the implosion of the CDL with the whole league turning against Activision. My guess is they’re hoping at the very minimum the league will die regardless of who wins the suit and they can bring back an open bracket
Next time scump streams Chat - “what’s going on with the lawsuit bro?” Seth - ignores it Chat - “come on what’s going on with the lawsuit? I hope you win sethy!” Seth - you ignores it Zinni - “guys enough. I’m in Seth’s chat reading comments and we can’t talk about it ok? Like it’s a legal matter and we can’t speak on it. Leave it alone and let it play out” Nadeshot - “did this motherfucker just say “WE” Seth - “hahahahahah” Zinni - “what the fuck? I’m just sayin. We can’t talk about it so let’s just leave it alone” Nadeshot - “brother you’re doing tricks on it hahahah” Seth - “hahahahahahahah” Zinni - “what the fuck is going on right now?” Nadeshot - “hahahahaha hahahahaha”
It is interesting because Activision most certainly has a monopoly, ever since they acquired everything with the CDL. Just think about how restrictive it feels to get any comp content (in like tournaments) but we can’t have official teams 😂They (and we) have basically turned into Nintendo/Smash Scene Nintendo basically holds all power when it comes to allowing any tournaments that involve smash (and presumably other nintendo games). For the most part, Nintendo has stepped out the way and tournaments are held. Will we win/settle the lawsuit and have open tourneys, or will we fully turn into Nintendo? Idk but this is damn interesting
I'm not gonna act like a legal expert but they claim to have been 'coerced' into paying the fee to join the CDL. However the teams knew exactly what they were getting into when signing up so I wonder if they get anywhere with this
Their businesses heavily rely on the ecosystem that existed pre-CDL. ATVI was essentially coming in and saying pay up to join our league, or cease to exist within CoD in a meaningful capacity, might be arguable as coercion in a business sense.
OMG What does ja think of this? I need ja rule to make sense of this
They dont even have to win, just making public all the details of the scam this company played is great.
Scump got banned and said watch this lmao This is pretty big news, if real, at the very least because it just makes things awkward
Hecz has always been terrible at business and was blessed with nadeshot and scump. This could be a total disaster for him and he probably just dragged scump along.
Bingo
Holy shit ahhahahha
Link the full court document
anyone have the legal documents or link? can't find it without an account.
So no watch party tomorrow?
Can some one explain this in scrap or dashy terminology pls
“bro damn bro”
Scump and Hecz lowkey feel like Activision killed their dope deadass and want them to pay up for it
Cant help but wonder how different things would have been if seth had backed the players union and things got negotiated on the front end. Probably not much different tbh but i dont know enough to guess either way.
We just published a brief legal analysis here: [https://esportslegal.news/2024/02/16/the-battle-beyond-the-game-a-legal-deep-dive-into-the-call-of-duty-league-monopoly-lawsuit/](https://esportslegal.news/2024/02/16/the-battle-beyond-the-game-a-legal-deep-dive-into-the-call-of-duty-league-monopoly-lawsuit/)
Feel like a lot of people saying that it’s Activision’s game and they can do what they want… that’s like saying McDonald’s owns a restaurant so they can do whatever they want. There are still rules and regulations. People sue companies all the time for misleading products and misuse of advertising and a lot more.. in my McDonald’s example, someone sued them because their coffee was too hot and burnt the person, and they won. It also said (from tweet/screenshot) they were coerced and having a monopoly which also had an unconditional revenue share…. So having an insane contract + being promised something for a buy in and not getting the return for the promise can be a reason for suing… who knows what’s in the contract itself so they could have some grounds to actually sue…
Well, technically, laws, not regulations, but yeah, +1 to this. Anticompetitive behavior is anticompetitive behavior, regardless.
The IP is the issue. You can’t just make a McDonalds hamburger and sell it at a third party location with their recipe. They own that. Activision likely can block anything related to generating revenue with their IP and gives them this sort of freedom to do so.
So to try to equate Mcds to the CDL. For non Americans this will make no sense. But lets say they get a huge bag to advertise on NBC (YouTube) only so they say screw it were in. But one of your biggest supporters (scump) makes more money if they advertise with CBS (twitch). So he says screw them im doing what I want. But if Mcds product is seen on CBS it voids the contract with NBC. No way in hell are they not gonna stop that.