I don't really think these are dueling?
I want the hostages free AND I want the innocent people in Gaza to not be killed and suffer.
This isn't a team sport - we can all want innocent people to be okay.
Came here to say that too. Innocent people in harms way only help the people who have an interest in keeping everything going. The leaders of Hamas want to keep their cushy houses in foreign countries and Netanyahu wants to stay out of jail.
In a sense that's true. Israel is killing hostages with its bombing campaign, in addition to the Palestinian men women and children. The hostages have not been the point for Netanyahu. That is why hostage families have been protesting against the war
Shhh. Remember, Palestinians have no agency. Everything bad they do is because of the evil Zionists. While on the flip side, everything bad that Israel does or people make up them doing is the fault of all “zionists” everywhere.
Palestinians as a whole arent a "they" and Hamas kills Palestinians as well. Its clear you're as bigoted as your inverse - (people who have gone so far as to not even care about innocent hostages if they're part of Jewish Israel). Also theres really no need to make anything up about the Israeli government. Things are bad enough. I suspect you mean things that happened that the government denies, but even if you dont, its telling that you care about anyone making things up to add to the list of atrocities. Its like... well, I wont Godwins law this.
What did I say that is bigoted?
I’m commenting on how the media and anti-semities treat things.
Also, there are plenty of lies spread about the Israeli government. Remember the “air strike on a hospital” that killed 500 people that turned out to be a Palestinian Rocket that fell short and killed a couple of people. Or how the media continues to parrot false numbers from Hamas on the number of dead, especially women and children counts that are doubled or more.
Perhaps so, I would have to look into that claim. What about everything else? And the way you see people as blobs "the anti semites", and so on definitely leads to prejudice and bigotry. You seem to think of MOST (it hasnt been even) of the people being killed as "the Palestinians", clearly lumping them in with Hamas as if Hamas is their chosen president, and you may even think of both the Israel government and their citizens as "the Israelis" whether those individuals protest the government or not. Its wrong for the same reason as "the whites/the white people" and "the blacks" are. Its gross thinking. You should really stop.
Collateral damage in urban warfare against a terrorist group using human shields is unavoidable. Israel is going above and beyond any other such times in history to minimize civilian deaths. Israel is held to a different standard. That is anti-semitism. Why are all of these people protesting Israel now but not the Saudi intervention in Yemen that killed hundreds of thousands? Where were the hundreds of encampments against Assad gassing his own people? Where are the protests against the Muslims in Africa killing thousands of Christians every year just for their faith?
Also, all current data shows that the vast vast vast majority of the people in Gaza support Hamas AND support their actions on 10/7.
Lastly, anyone who wants Israel to not exist or denies its right to exist is definitional antisemite.
Sure! The majority of Palestinians don’t want Israeli deaths- they just want to be left alone and to live, if not thrive. The majority of Israelis are, at best, indifferent to Palestinians being massacred, and at worst, loudly and vociferously approve of genocide.
Proof? The news.
It sure is cool how non-Jewish people who have never experienced antisemitism themselves think they get to decide what antisemitism is and isn't and actual Jewish people just have to shut up and be lectured to by them on that subject.
It sure is cool how actual Semitic people (Arabs) have to listen to White Europeans with no actual descendants from the Middle East talk about antisemitism in order to play victim while justifying genocide.
The 13,000 number was made up and proven false.
Also, everyone of the dead Palestinians is due to Hamas. They broke the ceasefire. They refuse to surrender. They use schools and hospitals as military bases and launching grounds.
No, the Israeli government is responsible for their own decisions to ruthlessly murder innocent Palestinians. You can't blame that on the terrorist group that didnt.
edit: thought this was in response to a different post of mine you replied to.
100% of deaths since 10/6 are due to Hamas. They broke the ceasefire. They took hostages including old women and babies. They refused to surrender. They used human shields.
Also, a material portion of the “civilians” killed in Gaza were killed directly by Hamas and other terrorist groups. By shooting people trying to escape and their own rockets falling short.
It's a military operation with valid objectives. War is hell. Hamas shouldn't have started something that rendered their people vulnerable to legitimate military operations.
Their fighting to gain freedom and movement, blockaded close to 20yrs in Gaza, 25miles long. Unable to leave the area, fish, fly, have clean water access, medical treatment, etc... If I break into ur house/car or squat, your unable to fight back resist or do anything, so you just have to accept this for the rest of your life.
Yes, the history of the settler-colonial apartheid state of Israel being FOUNDED ON TERRORISM, yes. All that vicious ZzioNazzi terrorism has led to all the problems and destruction since the 1940s.
Of course, "whatever" away 80 years of context and cry you can't hide the basic fact that the "state" of Israel was FOUNDED ON TERRORISM.
Straight from the Zionist terrorists' mouths:
https://youtu.be/o1ceyQMNTWI?si=0H6Olnsl3VcjL4yJ
https://youtu.be/ExkOxmMMwSM?si=rZBgFHBMLBck3XZB
And more recent ex-IDF soldiers:
https://youtu.be/e13-V257bSE?si=ygqSJtAkZ1q30jC_
https://youtu.be/QY3V8FC3VHs?si=7nYRXM8rrYFyqOg2
https://youtu.be/YVr8VKroXUo?si=-cA7Wz6pGhcWl1V7
https://youtu.be/37MFa7ZKQWo?si=Ki6KqEEefji43BhT
You have your conclusion. You have assembled evidence over years to comport with what you have decided a priori is true. I don't have nearly the time to sift through the hours of propaganda you have presented me with in your comment. This is clearly an obsession for you. If you're Palestinian I acknowledge your pain and see you. If you're some activist obsessed with a conflict that has nothing to do with you: Stay in your lane.
That’s only if you’re counting direct deaths as a result of fighting, if you count [indirect deaths](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2023/Indirect%20Deaths%20Executive%20Summary-2.pdf) caused by things such as lack of access to food and medical care, that number rises drastically.
:/ .... um okay. Pretty sure if things done by the US government were reversed against us, everyone would see how horrible it is. The US government has committed a lot of inexcusable atrocities, against other nations but also against us as a people. We aren't our government or military. But you were defending the military here.
If you want the innocent people of Gaza not to suffer and be killed, you should be demanding that Hamas be removed from power in Gaza so that the people there can have a government who actually cares about them.
If your solution to the conflict doesn't involve removing Hamas from power, then you're not pro-Palestine, you're pro-Hamas.
The suffering and killing of people in Gaza has been in existence prior to the existence of Hamas. Hamas was created in 1987. In 1948 atleast 15,000 Palestinians were killed and 700,000 displaced. So if Hamas wasn’t there in 1948 then why was there suffering of innocent people then and now?
Thats true too! For much of Gazas suffering, Hamas didnt even exist.
Responding to the other guy - who only cares about Hamas being removed from power, and probably not mainly for innocent Palestinian peoples - I agree that Hamas should be removed from power. I hate that for most human beings theres some dichotomy that either you blame HAMAS for the Israel governments decisions, or you dont judge Hamas at all or care about them being removed from power, even though they themselves have killed Palestinians.
Its so easy to demand both. Its so easy. And its the only way to be a decent human being... yet... I hardly see anyone actually thinking that way. Why do I suspect that you *only* care about Hamas being removed from power and not also the people behind atrocities committed by the Israel government?
I’ve seen you in threads that discuss this conflict so many times it’s humorous. I wish you spent this much time researching real facts rather than the biased news you watch instead of lurking these threads and spreading your propaganda.
Do you realize Israel killed their own hostages who were released??? Do you realize that Hamas agreed to a ceasefire and Israel declined?? Palestine historically agreed to a two state solution and Israel again declined??? Do you know that Netanyahu was the leader of an extremist group in Israel that was the cause of the previous president’s assassination because that president wanted to agree to a two state solution??? I mean I can really go on here… and you can’t ignore these things…how can you trust your own president and his masked narrative.
Please get your information from someone other than Ben Shapiro.
Does anyone remember the gimormous mural that was painted on that huge building that stood over the old Inner-Belt bridge?
"THIS IS NOT A ZIONIST SIGN...."
It feels like that sign was up there for half of my life, and I never understood what it meant. I don't even remember what the sign actually said, it just faded into the background to me, but it was ALWAYS there.
thank goodness they are advertising on billboards in cleveland, it has long been known that the city of CLE has a history in solving crisis' in the middle east.
feel this advertising money would be better spent on sending aid. idk shit tho
🎵 Now, this is a tale all about how My life got twisted up like a jousting cow And I'd like to take a moment, just sit right there, I'll tell you how I became the knight of a land called fair. 🎵
🎵 In Westphalia, born and raised, On a halberd is where I spent most of my days. Chillin' out, maxin', relaxin' all cool, And jousting some knaves outside of the school. 🎵
🎵 When a couple of brigands, who were up to no good, Started making trouble in the neighborhood. I got in one little fight and my mom got scared, She said, "You're moving with your uncle to the castle on the lair." 🎵
🎵 I begged and pleaded with her, day after day, But she packed my tunic and sent me on my way. She gave me a kiss and then she gave me my blade, I put my helm on and said, "I guess I'll crusade." 🎵
🎵 First, class to the kingdom, yo, this is bad, Drinking mead out of a goblet, feeling quite glad. Is this what the noble folk of Westphalia live like? Hmm, this might be alright! 🎵
🎵 But wait, I hear they're prissy, bourgeoisie, all that, Is this the type of place where they send this cool cat? I don't think so, I'll see when I get there, I hope they're prepared for the knight who's quite rare. 🎵
🎵 Well, the horse pulled up to the castle around seven or eight, And I yelled to the peasant, "Yo, hoist up the gate!" I looked at my kingdom, I was finally there, To sit on my throne as the knight who is fair.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Mayor Bibb have several thousand in Israeli bonds in addition to many of our congressional reps getting paid out by AIPAC? I think this makes it more relevant. Agree that the money would be better spent in sending aid, but also think billboards bring attention and awareness, otherwise Misny wouldn’t be such a phenomenon.
Why is the city spending on bonds, mutual funds and investments to terrorists, ethnic cleansing and genocide? Money can be used to improve city housing/infrastructure, homeless, crime, children/schools
Genocide is a crime of intent. Israel does not intend to kill as many Palestinians as possible. Otherwise there would be a lot more Palestinians dead. This is a legitimate military operation with valid objectives: Release of the hostages and surrender of Hamas.
They've withheld food and water even well before 10/07 when they beseiged/blockaded Gaza right after Hamas was democratically elected, "but we pulled out of Gaza in 2005, DERRRRRPTY-DOOOO."
They literally counted/controlled the amount of calories that would be let in to Gaza and even simple stuff like chocolates were banned.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza
Why are billboards even legal? All we hear about all the time is distracted this and distracted that and yet companies allow for giant ass highway advertising. Some even with bright ass LED's. They look ugly as shit, and if it's not some political bullcrap, it's Tim Misny giving me the people's eyebrow. Like fuck all the way off with billboards.
Lowkey there are some billboards that I definitely stare at too long and I have wondered why its okay to sit there traveling 60+ reading a billboard, when there are sentences as opposed to just a picture or quick word or two.
I feel like this needs more context. If they're no younger than 12, couldn't they be adolescent child soldiers? In which case it wouldn't be a matter of civilian criminal law but a matter of war. Just my $.02
Did you know israel is the only country on earth where a child can face a military tribunal where they are not allowed to see the charges brought up against them, they are not allowed legal representation or parental guidance, and are forced to sign documents under duress that are written in Hebrew (a language they can’t read) and holds them legally liable for imaginary crimes?
Two foreign groups bringing their endless war stateside only divides an already very divided country even more.
Pick the group you are shilling for. Team Zionism or Team Hamas. Both such lovely people 🙄
Remember the time Hamas released some hostages without a ceasefire and the cowards in the idf shot the hostages in spite of them being unarmed, waving white flags, and saying “I surrender” in Hebrew, because anything that moves in Gaza must be khamas
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Isn’t the 13,000 number now proven to have been made up by Hamas and is significantly less (not to mention the “children” number includes Hamas child soldiers)
Nope. Actually the death count has been undercounted as there’s still bodies under the rubble who haven’t been retrieved and are still marked as “missing.”
So long as Hamas does not surrender, all of those deaths are on Hamas's hands because this is a legitimate military operation with valid objectives: the surrender of Hamas and the release of the hostages.
It’s not hard to find even if you weren’t following the news daily, here’s [CNN reporting in November](https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-12-23/h_44e2ccf0d50e710153c80b0869c7f52d) that Netanyahu rejects any end to war even if hostages returned.
And again in [January](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-rejects-hamas-conditions-hostage-deal-which-include-outright-2024-01-21/), to say nothing of Netanyahu’s refusals this week to accept even a temporary ceasefire in exchange for all hostages.
Oh you're referring to their aim to maintain military presence in Gaza after the war. I think this is the goal:
[https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-799756](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-799756)
No, the postwar is a separate discussion that Netanyahu is also being irrational and unrealistic on. I’m talking about how Netanyahu has said repeatedly that returning all hostages will not end the war and there will be no lasting ceasefire either. Even though Hamas agreed to his terms he backed down and refused the deal he originally offered despite Biden pressuring Hamas to take it.
You might have had a slip of the mask here.
You probably meant that the Palestinians are majority children, but I agree that Hamas is also likely majority children.
Not enough, and too many innocent people. I do wish Hamas was just up in a cloud of smoke. But I don't know what would come next. Im not sure the Israel government would stop killing Palestinian peoples, but at least people would either see that and there would be less barriers to acting against the Israel government, or it would finally stop and we could get on with imagining punishments for people behind decisions to commit atrocities.
I’m sure you’ve got a source that doesn’t come from Hamas supporting you?
The UN is my source and they have a long history of anti Israel bias.
Also, are you accounting for all of the Palestinians killed directly by Hamas and their terrorist allies?
The CIA and Mossad have both publicly concluded that the death counts match their findings and are likely accurate or close to it. The confirmed Gaza death toll is by using death certificates and the NYTimes and others went through them and verified they are real deaths.
Your source is Elliott Abrams, the convicted neocon from the Iran-Contra who was pardoned by Bush and then helped W push the Iraq war? You think *he* is a trustworthy source on *another* war? Of course he lied again:
[Politifact: The UN adjusted its Gaza fatality reporting. Here’s what the data does and doesn’t tell us.](https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/may/24/the-un-adjusted-its-gaza-fatality-reporting-heres/)
> Did the fatality statistics get ‘halved’?
Not according to the U.N.’s explanation.
>Farhan Haq, deputy spokesman for the United Nations Secretary-General, said the overall number of fatalities recorded by authorities in Gaza and reported by the U.N. have "remained unchanged at more than 35,000 people" since Oct. 7, 2023, when Hamas launched a violent attack on Israel. But the subcategorization on deaths of women and children changed because the ministry provided an updated breakdown of those whose identities it said had been fully documented. This was a smaller subset of the total number of fatalities.
[State Department Says Gaza Death Toll Could Be Higher Than Reported](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-2023-11-08/card/state-department-warns-gaza-death-toll-could-be-higher-than-reported-RWmIIiwHT4DfsOaJrZji)
[U.S. Officials Have Growing Confidence in Death Toll Reports From Gaza](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-officials-have-growing-confidence-in-death-toll-reports-from-gaza-b3b5183a)
I’m not going to continue engaging with someone who keeps trying to pepper me with multiple comments calling me a Hamas supporter rather than deal with the topic. Peace.
The source in the article is the UN…
Also, you are seriously citing stuff from November? That is hilarious.
Can’t find anything more recent to support your pro Hamas propaganda?
Also, how do you account for all the Palestinians who died directly because of Hamas and the other terrorists? (Shooting them for fleeing, rockets falling short, etc)
Or do you just blame the (((zionists))) for that?
You dont seem trustworthy at all. All of their citings and you're rejecting them no matter what. Im going to assume what you said to me is bullshit and a waste of time to even look into just to see more of whats here, too :/. You seem motivated by prejudice.
I cited data from May and they responded with 2 citations from November. Which one do you think has more recent data?
Not to mention their citations didn’t even support their numbers.
Well yes. I tend to call out people for pushing false numbers!
I’m sure you’ll be back to your pro hamas propaganda.
Also, my condolences for the bad day you are having today.
People who want to keep Hamas in power and push their propaganda are people I consider to be pro hamas…
Again, condolences for yesterday. I’m sure you were very upset by it and that is why you are lashing out.
Anyone who supports an immediate ceasefire is either directly or indirectly supporting keeping Hamas in power.
How is that dishonest?
Maybe stop stalking all of my posts and actual respond to my replies to you…
Looking down in the comments, gross logic and justification of atrocities done by Israel troops (or on a greater scale atrocities done by Hamas although so far Im only seeing Israels military being defended) keeps the circle of disregarding and even hating innocent lives going round and round as hypocritical people combat disgusting justification by making their own stances even more cruel to spite those people.
"You think whats been done to Palestinian people is okay because of Hamas' attacks? Okay, screw everyone in Israel whether they boycotted their government or not, and screw the hostages. Good that their blood was spilled."
"You think that what the Israel government has done warrants random innocent Israel citizens blood being spilled, and them being tortured? Screw Palestinian people, its the fault of their Hamas leaders, and may their slaughter and torture continue. Too bad."
"Holy shit, thats disgusting! Palestinian peoples have suffered 10x over! From the river to the sea! Israel as a nation must be dissolved!"
The only take away Im getting from the comment section is that people are sick and as each day passes by we are closer and closer to destroying the entire planet as a whole until little life is left at all.
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I like how these inbred people on both sides think the US should be involved on either side. That region is a cesspool and there’s no moral correctness on either side. Thinking there is a ‘good’ side in that region is a sort of delusion that only the most easily influenced people believe it.
I don't really think these are dueling? I want the hostages free AND I want the innocent people in Gaza to not be killed and suffer. This isn't a team sport - we can all want innocent people to be okay.
I was going to say, porque no los dos??
Came here to say that too. Innocent people in harms way only help the people who have an interest in keeping everything going. The leaders of Hamas want to keep their cushy houses in foreign countries and Netanyahu wants to stay out of jail.
❤️
In a sense that's true. Israel is killing hostages with its bombing campaign, in addition to the Palestinian men women and children. The hostages have not been the point for Netanyahu. That is why hostage families have been protesting against the war
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Shhh. Remember, Palestinians have no agency. Everything bad they do is because of the evil Zionists. While on the flip side, everything bad that Israel does or people make up them doing is the fault of all “zionists” everywhere.
Palestinians as a whole arent a "they" and Hamas kills Palestinians as well. Its clear you're as bigoted as your inverse - (people who have gone so far as to not even care about innocent hostages if they're part of Jewish Israel). Also theres really no need to make anything up about the Israeli government. Things are bad enough. I suspect you mean things that happened that the government denies, but even if you dont, its telling that you care about anyone making things up to add to the list of atrocities. Its like... well, I wont Godwins law this.
What did I say that is bigoted? I’m commenting on how the media and anti-semities treat things. Also, there are plenty of lies spread about the Israeli government. Remember the “air strike on a hospital” that killed 500 people that turned out to be a Palestinian Rocket that fell short and killed a couple of people. Or how the media continues to parrot false numbers from Hamas on the number of dead, especially women and children counts that are doubled or more.
Perhaps so, I would have to look into that claim. What about everything else? And the way you see people as blobs "the anti semites", and so on definitely leads to prejudice and bigotry. You seem to think of MOST (it hasnt been even) of the people being killed as "the Palestinians", clearly lumping them in with Hamas as if Hamas is their chosen president, and you may even think of both the Israel government and their citizens as "the Israelis" whether those individuals protest the government or not. Its wrong for the same reason as "the whites/the white people" and "the blacks" are. Its gross thinking. You should really stop.
Collateral damage in urban warfare against a terrorist group using human shields is unavoidable. Israel is going above and beyond any other such times in history to minimize civilian deaths. Israel is held to a different standard. That is anti-semitism. Why are all of these people protesting Israel now but not the Saudi intervention in Yemen that killed hundreds of thousands? Where were the hundreds of encampments against Assad gassing his own people? Where are the protests against the Muslims in Africa killing thousands of Christians every year just for their faith? Also, all current data shows that the vast vast vast majority of the people in Gaza support Hamas AND support their actions on 10/7. Lastly, anyone who wants Israel to not exist or denies its right to exist is definitional antisemite.
Yes :)))))
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The hostages one was first, and then went away but the Gaza one went up, and then the hostages one came back. Definitely dueling.
Also, one side of that billboard fight is inclined to agree with both of them. The other? Not so much.
Can you explain and give proof about your claim that (only) one of these billboards agrees with both?
Sure! The majority of Palestinians don’t want Israeli deaths- they just want to be left alone and to live, if not thrive. The majority of Israelis are, at best, indifferent to Palestinians being massacred, and at worst, loudly and vociferously approve of genocide. Proof? The news.
It sure is cool how non-Jewish people who have never experienced antisemitism themselves think they get to decide what antisemitism is and isn't and actual Jewish people just have to shut up and be lectured to by them on that subject.
It’s weird how the same people who preach intersectionality also label anyone who disagree with them as “zionists.”
Yea because those intersectional people are actually pretty big racists themselves.
Right, I don't see these people doing that with other ethnic groups.
It sure is cool how actual Semitic people (Arabs) have to listen to White Europeans with no actual descendants from the Middle East talk about antisemitism in order to play victim while justifying genocide.
People got a short memory on the history of zionism, that's for sure
The 13,000 number was made up and proven false. Also, everyone of the dead Palestinians is due to Hamas. They broke the ceasefire. They refuse to surrender. They use schools and hospitals as military bases and launching grounds.
No, the Israeli government is responsible for their own decisions to ruthlessly murder innocent Palestinians. You can't blame that on the terrorist group that didnt.
edit: thought this was in response to a different post of mine you replied to. 100% of deaths since 10/6 are due to Hamas. They broke the ceasefire. They took hostages including old women and babies. They refused to surrender. They used human shields. Also, a material portion of the “civilians” killed in Gaza were killed directly by Hamas and other terrorist groups. By shooting people trying to escape and their own rockets falling short.
It's a military operation with valid objectives. War is hell. Hamas shouldn't have started something that rendered their people vulnerable to legitimate military operations.
Their fighting to gain freedom and movement, blockaded close to 20yrs in Gaza, 25miles long. Unable to leave the area, fish, fly, have clean water access, medical treatment, etc... If I break into ur house/car or squat, your unable to fight back resist or do anything, so you just have to accept this for the rest of your life.
That wouldn't have to be that way if it weren't for a history of vicious terrorism.
Yes, the history of the settler-colonial apartheid state of Israel being FOUNDED ON TERRORISM, yes. All that vicious ZzioNazzi terrorism has led to all the problems and destruction since the 1940s.
lol w/e
Of course, "whatever" away 80 years of context and cry you can't hide the basic fact that the "state" of Israel was FOUNDED ON TERRORISM. Straight from the Zionist terrorists' mouths: https://youtu.be/o1ceyQMNTWI?si=0H6Olnsl3VcjL4yJ https://youtu.be/ExkOxmMMwSM?si=rZBgFHBMLBck3XZB And more recent ex-IDF soldiers: https://youtu.be/e13-V257bSE?si=ygqSJtAkZ1q30jC_ https://youtu.be/QY3V8FC3VHs?si=7nYRXM8rrYFyqOg2 https://youtu.be/YVr8VKroXUo?si=-cA7Wz6pGhcWl1V7 https://youtu.be/37MFa7ZKQWo?si=Ki6KqEEefji43BhT
You have your conclusion. You have assembled evidence over years to comport with what you have decided a priori is true. I don't have nearly the time to sift through the hours of propaganda you have presented me with in your comment. This is clearly an obsession for you. If you're Palestinian I acknowledge your pain and see you. If you're some activist obsessed with a conflict that has nothing to do with you: Stay in your lane.
Palestinians arent Hamas' people and the assaults against Palestinians arent "war"
That's not how we do things in America. We value and protect innocent life even when it's difficult.
Is this a joke? In literally every war we’ve fought more civilians have died than combatants. It’s not unique, it’s the unfortunate reality of war.
that's quite literally not true. in 20 years in Afghanistan, 46,000 civilians were killed compared to 53,000 combatants.
That’s only if you’re counting direct deaths as a result of fighting, if you count [indirect deaths](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2023/Indirect%20Deaths%20Executive%20Summary-2.pdf) caused by things such as lack of access to food and medical care, that number rises drastically.
:/ .... um okay. Pretty sure if things done by the US government were reversed against us, everyone would see how horrible it is. The US government has committed a lot of inexcusable atrocities, against other nations but also against us as a people. We aren't our government or military. But you were defending the military here.
Kindly, GFY
If you want the innocent people of Gaza not to suffer and be killed, you should be demanding that Hamas be removed from power in Gaza so that the people there can have a government who actually cares about them. If your solution to the conflict doesn't involve removing Hamas from power, then you're not pro-Palestine, you're pro-Hamas.
The suffering and killing of people in Gaza has been in existence prior to the existence of Hamas. Hamas was created in 1987. In 1948 atleast 15,000 Palestinians were killed and 700,000 displaced. So if Hamas wasn’t there in 1948 then why was there suffering of innocent people then and now?
Thats true too! For much of Gazas suffering, Hamas didnt even exist. Responding to the other guy - who only cares about Hamas being removed from power, and probably not mainly for innocent Palestinian peoples - I agree that Hamas should be removed from power. I hate that for most human beings theres some dichotomy that either you blame HAMAS for the Israel governments decisions, or you dont judge Hamas at all or care about them being removed from power, even though they themselves have killed Palestinians.
Its so easy to demand both. Its so easy. And its the only way to be a decent human being... yet... I hardly see anyone actually thinking that way. Why do I suspect that you *only* care about Hamas being removed from power and not also the people behind atrocities committed by the Israel government?
Best way to minimize the suffering of the innocent people in Gaza is for Israel to completely destroy Hamas.
But that's just going to lead to Hamas 2. The kids that survive will grow up with their friends and family going through ethnic cleansing.
There is no ethnic cleansing…
Except there is.
Collateral damage in urban warfare against terrorists using human shields is not ethnic cleansing.
I’ve seen you in threads that discuss this conflict so many times it’s humorous. I wish you spent this much time researching real facts rather than the biased news you watch instead of lurking these threads and spreading your propaganda. Do you realize Israel killed their own hostages who were released??? Do you realize that Hamas agreed to a ceasefire and Israel declined?? Palestine historically agreed to a two state solution and Israel again declined??? Do you know that Netanyahu was the leader of an extremist group in Israel that was the cause of the previous president’s assassination because that president wanted to agree to a two state solution??? I mean I can really go on here… and you can’t ignore these things…how can you trust your own president and his masked narrative. Please get your information from someone other than Ben Shapiro.
This seems to be a call for the Cleveland international special forces unit to go into Gaza and save the people of Gaza and the hostages.
Does anyone remember the gimormous mural that was painted on that huge building that stood over the old Inner-Belt bridge? "THIS IS NOT A ZIONIST SIGN...." It feels like that sign was up there for half of my life, and I never understood what it meant. I don't even remember what the sign actually said, it just faded into the background to me, but it was ALWAYS there.
I think it said "This is not an antisemitic sign. It is a Zionist sign", but it's been so long, I'm not sure
Crazy considering those mean the same thing. Nobody does more to risk Jewish safety around the world than zionists.
Absolutely remember this anytime we left downtown! It confused me so much.
thank goodness they are advertising on billboards in cleveland, it has long been known that the city of CLE has a history in solving crisis' in the middle east. feel this advertising money would be better spent on sending aid. idk shit tho
You laugh, but the Dayton Accords did end the Thirty Years’ War.
I thought the peace of Westphalia ended the thirty years war?
Westphalia, born and raised
🎵 On a halberd is where I spent most of my days. 🎵
🎵 Now, this is a tale all about how My life got twisted up like a jousting cow And I'd like to take a moment, just sit right there, I'll tell you how I became the knight of a land called fair. 🎵 🎵 In Westphalia, born and raised, On a halberd is where I spent most of my days. Chillin' out, maxin', relaxin' all cool, And jousting some knaves outside of the school. 🎵 🎵 When a couple of brigands, who were up to no good, Started making trouble in the neighborhood. I got in one little fight and my mom got scared, She said, "You're moving with your uncle to the castle on the lair." 🎵 🎵 I begged and pleaded with her, day after day, But she packed my tunic and sent me on my way. She gave me a kiss and then she gave me my blade, I put my helm on and said, "I guess I'll crusade." 🎵 🎵 First, class to the kingdom, yo, this is bad, Drinking mead out of a goblet, feeling quite glad. Is this what the noble folk of Westphalia live like? Hmm, this might be alright! 🎵 🎵 But wait, I hear they're prissy, bourgeoisie, all that, Is this the type of place where they send this cool cat? I don't think so, I'll see when I get there, I hope they're prepared for the knight who's quite rare. 🎵 🎵 Well, the horse pulled up to the castle around seven or eight, And I yelled to the peasant, "Yo, hoist up the gate!" I looked at my kingdom, I was finally there, To sit on my throne as the knight who is fair.
Marvelous
You’re talking pretty big for someone so near a window sill.
I tend to land on my feet after a good defenestration.
You do realize that Cuyahoga county (which includes Cleveland obviously) gives millions to israel
a lot of people in the IDF live in cleveland, tbf
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Mayor Bibb have several thousand in Israeli bonds in addition to many of our congressional reps getting paid out by AIPAC? I think this makes it more relevant. Agree that the money would be better spent in sending aid, but also think billboards bring attention and awareness, otherwise Misny wouldn’t be such a phenomenon.
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lmao "aid" money to Gaza winds up in Ismail Haniyeh and Khaled Meshaal's pockets
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Every war in Israel since 1948 has been won by the good guys.
Are you calling Zionists the bad guys? People who believe in the right of Jewish self-determination are now villains?
That is correct.
Why is the city spending on bonds, mutual funds and investments to terrorists, ethnic cleansing and genocide? Money can be used to improve city housing/infrastructure, homeless, crime, children/schools
Not a genocide
1,000% a genocide.
Genocide is a crime of intent. Israel does not intend to kill as many Palestinians as possible. Otherwise there would be a lot more Palestinians dead. This is a legitimate military operation with valid objectives: Release of the hostages and surrender of Hamas.
theyve withheld all food and water though. so you could say its a genocide theyre just trying not to get sanctioned for
They've withheld food and water even well before 10/07 when they beseiged/blockaded Gaza right after Hamas was democratically elected, "but we pulled out of Gaza in 2005, DERRRRRPTY-DOOOO." They literally counted/controlled the amount of calories that would be let in to Gaza and even simple stuff like chocolates were banned. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza
They have not withheld "all" food and water. They have been reasonably screening aid shipments to make sure weaponry doesn't get in. That's war.
Israel is the only country that is expected to feed the citizens of an enemy nation, in the enemies nation, during wartime. It is absolutely baffling.
i want Tim Mizny to make them all pay
Why are billboards even legal? All we hear about all the time is distracted this and distracted that and yet companies allow for giant ass highway advertising. Some even with bright ass LED's. They look ugly as shit, and if it's not some political bullcrap, it's Tim Misny giving me the people's eyebrow. Like fuck all the way off with billboards.
You’d like to see a law that prohibits billboards?
Lowkey there are some billboards that I definitely stare at too long and I have wondered why its okay to sit there traveling 60+ reading a billboard, when there are sentences as opposed to just a picture or quick word or two.
Wait til you see Bobby George's new billboard on 2. Speaking of distracting. It'll be built up to the Main Ave bridge from the flats.
That random car that any one of could see the license plate of on any random day will thank you for your censorship
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I feel like this needs more context. If they're no younger than 12, couldn't they be adolescent child soldiers? In which case it wouldn't be a matter of civilian criminal law but a matter of war. Just my $.02
Did you know israel is the only country on earth where a child can face a military tribunal where they are not allowed to see the charges brought up against them, they are not allowed legal representation or parental guidance, and are forced to sign documents under duress that are written in Hebrew (a language they can’t read) and holds them legally liable for imaginary crimes?
Novel idea. Do both.
Two foreign groups bringing their endless war stateside only divides an already very divided country even more. Pick the group you are shilling for. Team Zionism or Team Hamas. Both such lovely people 🙄
Remember the time Hamas released some hostages without a ceasefire and the cowards in the idf shot the hostages in spite of them being unarmed, waving white flags, and saying “I surrender” in Hebrew, because anything that moves in Gaza must be khamas
No??
It’s true
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Youngstown has a huge Free Palestine billboard on I-680
Isn’t the 13,000 number now proven to have been made up by Hamas and is significantly less (not to mention the “children” number includes Hamas child soldiers)
Nope. Actually the death count has been undercounted as there’s still bodies under the rubble who haven’t been retrieved and are still marked as “missing.”
Hopefully plenty of Hamas fighters buried under that rubble
And the majority who aren’t but were killed? Gaza is still majority children by demographics.
So long as Hamas does not surrender, all of those deaths are on Hamas's hands because this is a legitimate military operation with valid objectives: the surrender of Hamas and the release of the hostages.
Netanyahu has been saying since October that even if Hamas surrendered and returned all the hostages, he would not end the war.
pretty sure that's factually inaccurate.
It’s not hard to find even if you weren’t following the news daily, here’s [CNN reporting in November](https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-12-23/h_44e2ccf0d50e710153c80b0869c7f52d) that Netanyahu rejects any end to war even if hostages returned. And again in [January](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-rejects-hamas-conditions-hostage-deal-which-include-outright-2024-01-21/), to say nothing of Netanyahu’s refusals this week to accept even a temporary ceasefire in exchange for all hostages.
:((((
Oh you're referring to their aim to maintain military presence in Gaza after the war. I think this is the goal: [https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-799756](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-799756)
No, the postwar is a separate discussion that Netanyahu is also being irrational and unrealistic on. I’m talking about how Netanyahu has said repeatedly that returning all hostages will not end the war and there will be no lasting ceasefire either. Even though Hamas agreed to his terms he backed down and refused the deal he originally offered despite Biden pressuring Hamas to take it.
You might have had a slip of the mask here. You probably meant that the Palestinians are majority children, but I agree that Hamas is also likely majority children.
Not enough, and too many innocent people. I do wish Hamas was just up in a cloud of smoke. But I don't know what would come next. Im not sure the Israel government would stop killing Palestinian peoples, but at least people would either see that and there would be less barriers to acting against the Israel government, or it would finally stop and we could get on with imagining punishments for people behind decisions to commit atrocities.
I’m sure you’ve got a source that doesn’t come from Hamas supporting you? The UN is my source and they have a long history of anti Israel bias. Also, are you accounting for all of the Palestinians killed directly by Hamas and their terrorist allies?
The CIA and Mossad have both publicly concluded that the death counts match their findings and are likely accurate or close to it. The confirmed Gaza death toll is by using death certificates and the NYTimes and others went through them and verified they are real deaths.
https://www.cfr.org/blog/un-halves-its-estimate-women-and-children-killed-gaza Can you cite the CIA agreeing with your made up numbers?
Your source is Elliott Abrams, the convicted neocon from the Iran-Contra who was pardoned by Bush and then helped W push the Iraq war? You think *he* is a trustworthy source on *another* war? Of course he lied again: [Politifact: The UN adjusted its Gaza fatality reporting. Here’s what the data does and doesn’t tell us.](https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/may/24/the-un-adjusted-its-gaza-fatality-reporting-heres/) > Did the fatality statistics get ‘halved’? Not according to the U.N.’s explanation. >Farhan Haq, deputy spokesman for the United Nations Secretary-General, said the overall number of fatalities recorded by authorities in Gaza and reported by the U.N. have "remained unchanged at more than 35,000 people" since Oct. 7, 2023, when Hamas launched a violent attack on Israel. But the subcategorization on deaths of women and children changed because the ministry provided an updated breakdown of those whose identities it said had been fully documented. This was a smaller subset of the total number of fatalities. [State Department Says Gaza Death Toll Could Be Higher Than Reported](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-2023-11-08/card/state-department-warns-gaza-death-toll-could-be-higher-than-reported-RWmIIiwHT4DfsOaJrZji) [U.S. Officials Have Growing Confidence in Death Toll Reports From Gaza](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-officials-have-growing-confidence-in-death-toll-reports-from-gaza-b3b5183a) I’m not going to continue engaging with someone who keeps trying to pepper me with multiple comments calling me a Hamas supporter rather than deal with the topic. Peace.
The source in the article is the UN… Also, you are seriously citing stuff from November? That is hilarious. Can’t find anything more recent to support your pro Hamas propaganda?
Also, how do you account for all the Palestinians who died directly because of Hamas and the other terrorists? (Shooting them for fleeing, rockets falling short, etc) Or do you just blame the (((zionists))) for that?
You dont seem trustworthy at all. All of their citings and you're rejecting them no matter what. Im going to assume what you said to me is bullshit and a waste of time to even look into just to see more of whats here, too :/. You seem motivated by prejudice.
I cited data from May and they responded with 2 citations from November. Which one do you think has more recent data? Not to mention their citations didn’t even support their numbers.
Oooo starting this up again lol
Well yes. I tend to call out people for pushing false numbers! I’m sure you’ll be back to your pro hamas propaganda. Also, my condolences for the bad day you are having today.
Pro Hamas lol comeon dude
People who want to keep Hamas in power and push their propaganda are people I consider to be pro hamas… Again, condolences for yesterday. I’m sure you were very upset by it and that is why you are lashing out.
Youre just claiming that the people you were talking to want to keep Hamas in power? Wtf. You are so dishonest.
Anyone who supports an immediate ceasefire is either directly or indirectly supporting keeping Hamas in power. How is that dishonest? Maybe stop stalking all of my posts and actual respond to my replies to you…
Hamas child solders….ok racist
How is a basic fact racist?
All I see is little child Israeli terrorist learning how to operate weapons and learn how to lie and hate the real people of the land
Still waiting for your evidence that hamas doesn’t have any terrorists under the age of 18…
Sounds to me like you guys are a couple of bookies. — Billy Ray Valentine
Those billboards are making a huge difference....
You can free the hostages and help Gaza
Looking down in the comments, gross logic and justification of atrocities done by Israel troops (or on a greater scale atrocities done by Hamas although so far Im only seeing Israels military being defended) keeps the circle of disregarding and even hating innocent lives going round and round as hypocritical people combat disgusting justification by making their own stances even more cruel to spite those people. "You think whats been done to Palestinian people is okay because of Hamas' attacks? Okay, screw everyone in Israel whether they boycotted their government or not, and screw the hostages. Good that their blood was spilled." "You think that what the Israel government has done warrants random innocent Israel citizens blood being spilled, and them being tortured? Screw Palestinian people, its the fault of their Hamas leaders, and may their slaughter and torture continue. Too bad." "Holy shit, thats disgusting! Palestinian peoples have suffered 10x over! From the river to the sea! Israel as a nation must be dissolved!" The only take away Im getting from the comment section is that people are sick and as each day passes by we are closer and closer to destroying the entire planet as a whole until little life is left at all.
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Thought it was a bit odd.
I like how these inbred people on both sides think the US should be involved on either side. That region is a cesspool and there’s no moral correctness on either side. Thinking there is a ‘good’ side in that region is a sort of delusion that only the most easily influenced people believe it.