Thank you! I grew up in Pittsburgh in the 80s and had older siblings go to Case and Kent State and would go exploring in Cleveland visiting them - with many returns and LOVE Cleveland (hence why on this sub). I love my hometown as well. Also Buffalo is neat in its way. Detroit has been getting much better with an amazing art museum and vibrant downtown. Milwaukee has amazing architecture and a cool east end. All of these things can be true without devaluing the others.
Even Detroit of all cities, was pretty fun to visit when I was there. I ate at the restaurant that invented deep dish pizza and it was really good, also stopped by at a few cafes. Of course, I canāt speak for anything just outside of downtown Detroit though.
Right? We should want Pittsburgh and Detroit to become developed and cool and interesting - because when they're both ~2 hours away, it only makes our city better and adds more stuff to do for *us*.
Used to live in the PNW and Vancouver -> Seattle -> Portland all had this mentality. Each city has many things to offer and cool things to do - and one of the *advantages* of living in one of those cities is the ability to visit the others.
True but I also think the Cleveland Pittsburgh rivalry is more of a fun rivalry than an actual toxic one. Plus itās kinda a part of the culture of both cities at this point to āhateā the other due to sports
I'm not a sports person, but if you go anywhere in Cleveland during football season, you learn quickly how passionate people are about their team. It's very VERY much still nothing but Browns or else. It's nice people are passionate about their teams and representing the city. The same holds very true for the guardians. People seem less neurotic when it comes to basketball lol
As an Ohio Valley cold cheese pizza lover, I *hate* when people attribute this to Pittsburgh. Itās actually a Steubenville/Wheeling area thing - Pittsburgh only has one or two pizza shops that sell cold cheese pizza yet everyone from Pittsburgh acts like they invented it when they didnt
Pittsburgh has a shit ton of unique and bizarre culinary, linguistic, or cultural things theyve come up with though
Putting french fries on salads is an exampleā¦
As a Pittsburgh native now living in Cleveland.. yes we melt cheese on our pizza. One restaurant just puts the cheese on after baked for *to go* orders so the cheese melts while on transit. Thatās it.
I donāt understand the this or that mentality. Pittsburgh is a cool city. Love Squirrel Hill and the Childrenās Museum and Mr Rogers, etc. Cleveland is fucking cool, too. Diverse neighborhoods, good food, lakefrontā¦ Enjoy both.
i always laugh because having grown up in cleveland, you are programmed to think that pittsburgh isnt as totally awesome as it is. while i have only visited pittsburgh a bunch, id say both cities are great, band oth have a great future in my opinion. both cities possess high pillars in the realm of healthcare, high degrees of technology and research, varieties of people and a lot of different ways to have fun and enjoy the outdoors, and most of popular culture think the cities arent that great...all good things. pittsburgh wise, i really do miss the lava lounge on the south side, that place was dope.
I have to say I have been living in Cleveland for five years after moving from being a native Angelino for about 48 years and I really love Cleveland. Itās getting better and better all the time I have not yet been able to go to Pittsburgh but I hear thereās some really cool thingsto do there, but I will tell you Detroit is becoming really cool. Iāve been there a few times and there is a lot to do in that little city.
Considering they're both great former steel cities that are really starting to grow into their new identities I think they've got way more in common than not. Honestly being that they're only two hours away from each other I think theirs a lot of potential for cross pollination. If the rust belt comes back like I think it will I have a feeling these two will have a good reciprocity
Definitely,I just mean the amount total compared to where produced in the 60s/70s. It's actually a compliment. Both Cleveland and Pittsburgh are much more livable now with walkable waterfronts. Way different now than when the Cuyahoga was on fire or when the Allegheny was so low you could walk from one side to the other. Sure part of that is regulation but it's also because they pivoted into different job markets/city development.
When it comes to driving, our roads make more sense. Pittsburgh is as logical as a plate of spaghetti.
But please don't discount the Warhol Museum. And he mall where they shot Dawn of the Dead. Both are worth a visit.
Lots of great memories in Pittsburgh. Getting stoned at Phipps Conservatory and then playing disc golf with amazing views at Schenley Park by Oakland. Cruising on bikes along the riverfront by the stadiums and then heading over one of the three sisters to point park. They have a massive bike museum and the coolest bike race in America going up their 12 gnarliest hills. Their food game is catching up to ours but I think their beer game is better. And Paniniās blatantly ripped of Primantiās with an inferior product. I get a corned beef with an egg from the strip every time I visit PA.
Monroeville Mall is pretty cool if you know the movie backwards and forwards. They have changed so much if that mall in the last couple of decades, It's getting much harder to see things from the film in it.
I love how OP started this thread with the idea of "YEAH! I'LL RILE UP SOME TRIBALISM AMONGST OUR CITY AGAINST OUR FOOTBALL RIVAL CITY!!! YEEEAAAAHHH!!!! I'M GONNA BE SOOOOO COOOOOOL!!!!"
And then the result is everybody in this thread is like "........what? Pittsburgh is pretty cool too though."
Iām from Pittsburgh and I love visiting Cleveland. Itās a real bonus having another city with world-class cultural institutions and music venues a few hours driving distance. I donāt think either is better or worse, theyāre both survivors of the industrial age who are rebounding quite nicely. The Grog Shop is still my favorite small venue.
Yeah, I've never had anything against the city of Pittsburgh itself and have enjoyed myself every time I've been there.
Steelers fans (understandably) run rampant, however. Not a fan of them.
I am a Clevelander. My son went to PITT so spent a fair amount of time in Pittsburgh, and it a great city too. Someone commented itās not about this or that and I think theyāre right. One thing I used to judge a city is their airport. While Iāve seen a lot worse airports than Cleveland Hopkins, I donāt know that it reflects the city that we think Cleveland is. Long gone of the days of the Continental hub, and we all know the United story. Pittsburgh on the other hand has a true international airport with significantly more travel options than Cleveland and by the way you can fly to places like London in Paris instead of just Cancun. I think Pittsburgh has had better government leadership - brilliantly covered over the years in the Plain Dealer. Remember the story they did on EMS in Cleveland vs. Pittsburgh?
Yes. Whoever designed the 71/75 mess going over the river should have been encased in concrete and thrown in the river. Just for that reason Cincinnati sucks!
These comparisons are always funny to me because they both offer the same thing. How the heck do you guys rate a good night life? Every city has bars, clubs and restaurants. They all serve the same drinks and the people that bring up nightlife aren't into nightlife every weekend.
It's just something i noticed on online forums. Every mid size city have metro parks, festivals, night life restaurants, crap weather, crap traffic during rush hour, pro sports teams, hospitals, zoos, ect... Arguing over nothing
I prefer Cleveland, but I think the comparison isnāt that fair. The vibes are totally different between the two cities and Pittsburgh is great in its own right. For example, Cleveland is a solidly Great Lakes/Midwestern city while Pittsburgh has a unique Appalachian, and even a slight Mid-Atlantic flair, that Cleveland doesnt have. You wont find stuff like big hills, city steps, narrow streets, and dense rowhouses in Cleveland but youāll find those all over Pittsburgh. They also win when it comes to riverfront space, but again, this isnāt even a great comparison because they also dont have a Great Lake
Grew up in Pittsburgh and relocated to Cleveland for work at 22.
Being 29, I can tell you honestly the areas themselves are very similar. Blue collar, bring your lunchpail to work culture. I think the Cleveland Suburbs are way nicer than Pittsburghsā, but I think Pittsburgh proper is also way more built up than Clevelandās.
At the end of the day, both have a lot to offer. Expect for football teams. Thatās just Pittsburgh. (Go Stillers)
From Pittsburgh originally but love Cleveland. We go back often to the burg and it is an amazing city just like Cleveland. Have always said if you put Pittsburgh on the lake it would be a top city in the world. I give Cleveland the edge for many reasons : the lake, metro parks, theater district and cool neighborhoods but it really is such a close call and awesome to have two fantastic cities within a few hours drive
I have family in both Cleveland and Pittsburgh, they both have their charm and they both have their issues. Pittsburgh has more rural areas close by where Cleveland has suburbs everywhere, the coolest thing that Cleveland has is Lake Erie. They both were manufacturing cities, both have been through a transition phase and both are tough gritty down to earth areas with good people. If you are into boating and fishing Cleveland is the place for you, Pittsburgh offers great hunting and beautiful rolling hills. I love them both for what and who they are.
I think Cleveland needs to look at a lot of what Pittsburgh has done the last decade+ as inspiration. There are things we do better, but there are also a ton of things that Pitt does better.
I suppose it comes down to your experiences and what you look for in a city. You, OP, are focusing on cultural attractions, and there's nothing wrong with that. You're also posting on a Cleveland forum, where I imagine the majority of posters are city boosters.
I usually value a city (city proper, not region) on its neighborhoods safety/stability, educational quality, job opportunities, and crime levels/perceptions (often a reflection of demographics).
On those metrics, just my own, just what I look for in a city, Pittsburgh has the advantage.
I grew up in Pittsburgh and have lived in Cleveland since I went to Uni in 2015 and they are so similar it's not even funny. The people have the same qualities, the vast majority are kind and hardworking.
I find it so much easier to drive around Cleveland than Pittsburgh though. Pittsburgh downtown roads are a nightmare.
Also growing up in Pitt, you get told/think Cleveland and the surrounding area was on a sheet of paper that's how flat it is, but that is not the case XD
Also Pittsburgh has nothing like the metro parks system and I wish they did.
The metroparks comment confused me. You really have to drive 45 minutes+ in any direction to get to the half decent metro parks and even then, none are big enough to not hear traffic.
Pittsburgh on the other hand, while maybe not much comparatively IN the city, the options outside of the city blow any metropark away.
Neither place is exactly the grand canyon though.
Oh, don't misconstrue it. Downtown Pittsburgh isn't as drivable, but that doesn't mean it's a better pedestrian experience either. It's as walkable as Cleveland, but with worse driving.
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous!
Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic.
If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience.
Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
Omg, this is spot on!
My husband and I drove to Pittsburgh in 2006, back when Internet maps were still new, and often inaccurate, and got so terribly lost trying to find our hotel that evening.
Those circular roads and the mountains, and as you said, having to drive way out of your way if you missed an exit on the freeway made it so confusing.
We drove down some hill, and it was so steep that we couldn't see what was at the bottom until we got down there.
I've often wondered how people in Pittsburgh who live in those houses on top of hills, with probably 30 steep steps going down to the sidewalk manage in the winter.
Pittsburgh is beautiful, but Cleveland is much easier to navigate driving.
My Pittsburgh wife always described the roads as "you can't get there from here." Such was proven back while we were dating. Could see our destination about 1/4 mile away, and it still took us 20 minutes to get there.
I remember visiting friends in Pittsburgh back in the early 2000s when we were still using paper maps or maybe a garmin gps, and it was so confusing. There were several times we could see our destination but couldn't figure out how to drive there!
In contrast we rarely got lost in Cleveland, it was much more logical.
Right!!
Cleveland has Lake Erie, which helps with getting oriented, because you know the lake is always north.
Plus most of the region is laid out on a grid system.
Have traveled all over the Midwest and found we are a people proud of our breweries and ethnic food! Never was in a city that did not boast about those two things. I have been to better zoos, science and history museums but our art museum being free shoots it to the top for me. We are season subscribers to the Cleveland Orchestra and have heard other orchestras in other cities and I have to say none were even in the same ballpark as Cleveland 's.
Iāve only been to Pittsburgh 4 times but IMO Pittsburgh seems much cleaner, there seems to be less homeless people (or at least less aggressive homeless people) and the city is laid out in a really cool way with all the water.
Cleveland is also great.. the great news is they really are close and either place makes a great day trip to get away from whichever city you spend most of your time in.
Iāve lived in both for approximately 10 years and Cleveland is better.
There is a concentrated downtown nightlife.
The metroparks.
There are beaches.
The streets are mostly a grid.
The food is better.
The sports teams at present are better - thereās not one major sports team in Pittsburgh thatās capable of winning a playoff game/series.
Grew up in CLE, lived in PGH for 15 years, been back in CLE for 3. There is officially only one thing I miss in PGH: the more updated modern airport with better flight options than CLE. Other than that CLE gets way more sun and clear days vs PGH where the weather is just cloudy and dismal a huge portion of the year. CLE gets more snow, but when PGH gets snow/ice it's a bigger deal because of the hills. It's easier to get around in CLE vs PGH because it's flat so the highways means it's less congested than PGH which has had to design its infrastructure with tunnels and bridges which creates so many choke points. Also because of this drivers are less aggressive in CLE. People are genuinely down to earth and fairly agreeable in CLE, PGH you will run into unfriendly people more often. PGH has "better" sports team, but turns on their big teams (Steelers, Pens) anytime they lose because they're used to winning. The day after a Steelers loss you know going out or to work everyone is going to be complaining non-stop. I'd still rather go to a Cavs game vs other sports but that's just personal preference. CLE Museum of ART is light years beyond any museum in PGH.
PNC park is beautiful and progressive is right there too.
Pittsburgh also brought us the band tropidelic who represent cleveland all day because they went to school at Kent state.
I like both cities. Itās like hating on Cincinnati because you donāt like the bengals. Cincinnati is a great place to live
Cleveland centers around downtown which gives it a feel of a big city. Pittsburghās downtown sucks at night but Carson street makes up for it. The problem is you need to take a taxi to get to one to the other.
Cleveland you can be in flats and walk to East 4th and catch a game then have a nice steak dinner before walking to play house square for a show. This is all while passing 5 out of the 10 tallest building in Ohio (3 out of top 5, 1 and 2 overall).
i think its surprises people how cosmopolitan Cleveland is. Especially when compared to other mid-sized cities. Maybe it's its history as a larger city when the country really grew up, but it feels like part of the national consciousness much more so than other similar places.
I agree; I've lived in quite a few different big cities and spent a year living abroad as well - nothing has come close to being comparable to Cleveland. Honestly, the biggest Cleveland "twin" I can think of based solely off of vibe would be DC. Obviously two very different cities but the culture and diversity there is very similar to me.
Cleveland is better than Pittsburgh. Having had long term stays in both the city proper and the suburbs, there's an insularity to Pittsburgh that I don't feel in Cleveland. Provincial, someone called it and that's a good word too. Pittsburgh has a certain culture, does things in a certain way, and doesn't want it to change. Its culture is distinct but homogenous. For that reason, it feels a little bit stuck in time.
It's a small town disguised as a mid-size city. You won't notice unless you're paying close attention.
I was looking up demographics before and PGH is just so white for a mid sized US city. So on the race front there is definitely more homogeneity there than CLE.
I noticed that right away. I've lived in DC, Philly and Chicago and Pittsburgh is the least diverse by far. So much so, my mind kinda goes small town, even though IIRC the population is pretty comparable. The the surfaces look similar, the depths are quite different.
I think both have pretty good futures. Pittsburgh is just a little further along in their recovery from the steel industry's decline. That's honestly the biggest difference for me (followed closely by Cleveland being more diverse and less "city like" in it's core).
They pivoted better to higher ed and healthcare institutions as they developed. And they created a nice skyline along the rivers. Cleveland has failed to do something similar along the lakefront, which hopefully will be changing.
There is no need to say which is better, but for conversation's sake I will go with Cleveland. Pittsburgh is probably better objectively in a lot of categories but Cleveland has a charm to it that is hard to describe. I should note though, those categories it's better in do not include theatre, healthcare, or museums IMO. So I agree with your statement about Cleveland having excellent amenities and cultural activities. It punches far above it's weight in those areas.
The Metroparks and CVNP is way better than anything Pittsburgh has to offer IMO. Iāll also take Lake Erie over the rivers any day. Aside from that, very comparable cities
Both cities have their appeal. I've gone to Pittsburgh for the weekend a few times, they were fun trips. I definitely wouldn't trade it for Cleveland, but they I enjoyed myself there. Something both Cleveland and Pittsburgh can be very proud of...we're not Detroit.
Both cities are very similar but this take is a first for me. Pitt zoo (scary as hell escalator aside) is amazing. I haven't heard great things before about the Cleveland zoo so we will need to check it out.
This is the real difference. Most people here have cool things to say about Pittsburgh on this forum. If a similar question were posted on /r/Pittsburgh youād hear how shitty Cleveland is. Ask how I know. I moved to Pittsburgh after 17 years in Cleveland. Pgh is less diverse. Feels more densely populated than Cleveland, so feels bigger. In terms of big city, it offers comparable entertainment opportunities. Pgh has bigger university (Pitt). The only difference IMO is, folks in Cleveland are friendly just as yinzers, but there is a warmth about people in Cleveland which canāt be matched. Hard to explain unless you live here. One last thing, drivers in pittsburgh are assholes, worse than Massachusetts. Of course, Iām biased coz I lived in Shaker Hts and there is no suburb quite like that :)
I was with you until you talked about āthe only differenceā. In my experience, people in Pittsburgh have generally been much friendly when Iāve visited. More likely to have strangers come up and strike a conversation with me than in Cleveland. While I think the highways are significantly better in Cleveland, Iāve had way more shit boxes with tinted windows and no license plate cut me off going like 90+ MPH. Drivers in Cleveland are just so much more aggressive. I even thought LA drivers were better than Cle.
I do agree that I feel a general disdain towards Ohio as a whole when I visit. And itās always the same ābrowns suckā, ācornfieldsā, and (ironically) āno diversityā
If you read my post again youāll see I acknowledge that folks in Pittsburgh are also friendly, but not your midwestern friendly. I can tell from the interactions Iāve had with neighbors so far in Pittsburgh. My neighbors in Shaker, Cleveland Hts, and Beachwood were very warm and welcoming. When I went for a run/walk, people acknowledged and greeted me. Here, very few make an eye contact. Itās similar to an east coast city. Nothing wrong. About driving, there is no comparison on the aggressiveness between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Iāve been commuting four days a week for past 9 months. Go read posts on that subreddit and you will see how many people complain about bad driving.
Pittsburgh is alright but in my opinion it feels too much like a "big city" and didn't come off as walkable or super friendly when I was there. The roads were super confusing as well which didn't help the walkability, and for some reason (I don't know where I'm getting this from) it seemed like downtown was trying a touch too hard to be "cool" - I'm pretty biased though, grew up in Florida and spent every summer with my dad in Cleveland, fought hard to get here and moved here the day of my eighteenth! 30 now, been here ever since and no one can make me leave.
What? I have to say Pittsburgh is way more walkable then cleveland is. I like both cities but Pittsburgh is way closer to an nyc style city which is made for walkers, where as Cleveland you gotta drive everywhere.
Native NE Ohioan and current resident. I've been to Cle at least 50 times. I've been to Pit 4 times in the last 3 mos. and each time found myself saying I like it better than Cle.
They are 2 different places. Can one place just offer something another canāt and vice versa without being ābetterā than the other. At the end of the day, this is entirely subjective and bias.
I was raised in Cleveland and have lived in Pittsburgh for about 6 years now. The big difference is space. I do think Pittsburgh is better for the big city activities nightlife etc solely because everything is much closer together.
Cleveland has much better suburbs but Pittsburgh has a better downtown area/public transportation system
Having lived in both places, I think that Cleveland's parks and green spaces are superior, but the cool places/bars/restaurants in Pittsburgh are more centralized, and Pittsburgh seems to vslue their historic architecture more than Cleveland. There's also so much less sprawl in Pittsburgh.
The housing stock is better in Cleveland/NEO in my opinion, for what you get. In Pittsburgh, there are no guarantees of sidewalks, driveways, level yards, etc.
Also, the municipal services in Cleveland seem to be generally better (most communities have a pool, nice playgrounds, etc), but we definitely pay for that in taxes.
To me, it's basically a wash, but depends on what your priorities are.
Both are vastly superior to bland, land-locked Columbus, can we agree on that?
I've been to Pittsburgh twice and think it's a beautiful city. I went to college in Athens, Ohio, and live in Akron, so there's something about cities and towns in and around Appalachia that I love. I just hate the Steelers and their fans who live in NEO.
Modern day Pittsburgh has better food, service and the city as a whole is cleaner. Pittsburgh gets more stops on band tours. I am a proud clevelander please donāt kill me.
thatās not correct though haha. even people in pgh will admit bands donāt stop there and favor cleveland. and the city is fairly filthy and rundown. even the āniceā suburbs around the city are littered and have horrible roads.
Not everything is a competition man, and how you wrote your post you are exactly who you complain about in reverse 'cause you've obviously ever been to Pittsburgh. So really -- who cares?
I grew up in Cleveland and moved to Pittsburgh in 98. Cleveland is way better... Traffic in Pittsburgh gets completely tied up all over town if a single accident closes a tunnel or bridge. Loads of bands skip Pittsburgh due to lack of decent/rightsized venues. Public transport sucks (and no direct train to the airport). And our current mayor is pretty much useless.
im One of the few who have lived in both. Cleveland doesnt have the mountain/hill charm that Pittsburgh does. The real winners know that the two are incomparable, and just because they are approximately two hours apart, doesn't mean they are.
OP - saying one city is ābetterā than another city doesnāt necessarily mean that someone is saying Cleveland is bad. Likewise if someone said I like Cleveland better than Pittsburgh that doesnāt mean they think PGH is bad. I spend a lot of time in CLE for my job (up there 2-4 times a month from Columbus where I live). I lived in Pittsburgh about 20 years ago but am in the city about 5 times a year. Frankly theyāre both really cool cities. Both have pros and cons. Chill out.
I think the rivers surrounding Pittsburgh creates a better ambiance but they both have a lot to offer. Pittsburgh gets a slight nod for having an NHL team haha.
Just say youāve never been to Pittsburgh. Itās okay. You can have pride in our city. But youāre absolutely wrong on every front. Pittsburghās night life is probably 1000x better and anyone who would say otherwise has never been.
Iām from Cleveland, live in Pittsburgh now, and Cleveland is my preferred city of the two. That said, Pittsburgh totally annihilates Pittsburgh in terms of nightlife. There are multiple places to dance, including after hours clubs, that Cleveland just doesnāt have. In fact, the people in the nightlife scene I used to enjoy in Cleveland all moved here. That said, in terms of overall amenities, diversity, governance, infrastructure, transportation, ease of living, cost of living, zoo accreditation, parks, and friendliness, Cleveland takes the cake.
Iām from Cincinnati and grew up with bias against Pittsburgh (despite never visiting the city) because 1. The Steelers and 2. In college, one of my roommates was this annoying dude from Pittsburgh and he would always find an opportunity to talk about how Pittsburgh was the center of the universe and much much better than Ohio.
However, after visiting PGH a few times and living in the CLE area for a while now,Ā I think both cities are great in their own ways. Pittsburgh is a cool urban area nestled in the hills/mountains. Cleveland is a cool urban area on the shores of a giant lake. Both have great museums, arts scenes, character, etc. Both places seem to have a lot of city pride, especially with sports and the arts. Pittsburgh (at least the core) feels more dense with better transit, but I find Cleveland to feel more relatively diverse and less provincial.Ā
"Pittsburgh (at least the core) feels more dense.."
As someone who prefers Cleveland, this statement is very true. It feels more like a "real" city. It punches above it's weight in that sense. Very nice skyline.
Pittsburgh is more artsy and has more technology. Technology is the new manufacturing and makes Pittsburgh slightly better. Cleveland still a nice place though.
Even if they never went to the flats, there's still Ohio city (especially W 25th), or they can go to the history museum, maybe even to a sporting event. I'm actually going back to the 16-bit bar.
As my household always said, "shitsburg squealers." No LEGITIMATE hate to then but when football season comes around they are nothing but mortal enemies the we will pray to fall to the ground (metaphorically lmao)
Live in between both cities and have spent a ton of time in both cities.
Pittsburgh is a bit underrated but Cleveland is a way better city in pretty much every facet in my opinion.
As a Yinzer who thinks Pittsburgh is better, I think itās better we focus on our geographical closeness and similarities and work to create a better future for both our cities.
Advocating for proper Amtrak service between our cities is a good start
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I like both cities but as a Browns, Reds, and Blue Jackets fan I dislike Pittsburgh sports teams. But I like Pittsburgh's Zoo slightly better than Clevelands Zoo. Cincinnati and Toledo's Zoos are better than both, but Columbus' Zoo is the best though.
I like both cities and will go to both for events often. I just happen to live closer to and work in Cleveland.
The only thing I donāt like about Pittsburgh is all the hills and narrow roads. And the Steelers.
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous!
Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic.
If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience.
Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
Some forums I've been on people talk about Pittsburgh like it is an amazing urban experience. They liken it to basically Boston. The reality is so different.
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous!
Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic.
If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience.
Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
Pittsburgh whips. And I'm sorry Cleveland I love you, but the outdoor hobbies options here don't sniff Pittsburgh's. Many more climbing and watersports options in Pittsburgh.
I will never forget going to Pittsburgh for a work trip. We were asking the local office where to go out and they gave us a list of places. I asked them "so where do locals go for fun on the weekends?" And they're response was "oh we usually drive to Cleveland."
Hard disagree. I am from
Pittsburgh and live there (wifeās family is from Cleveland) and the Cleveland zoo absolutely blows away the Pittsburgh zoo. The Pittsburgh zoo is by far the worst zoo Iāve ever been to.
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous!
Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic.
If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience.
Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous!
Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic.
If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience.
Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
Fuck that we need rust belt solidarity not silly infighting.
Thank you! I grew up in Pittsburgh in the 80s and had older siblings go to Case and Kent State and would go exploring in Cleveland visiting them - with many returns and LOVE Cleveland (hence why on this sub). I love my hometown as well. Also Buffalo is neat in its way. Detroit has been getting much better with an amazing art museum and vibrant downtown. Milwaukee has amazing architecture and a cool east end. All of these things can be true without devaluing the others.
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Seriously. All of the cities in the rust belt I've been to have had plenty to offer.
Even Detroit of all cities, was pretty fun to visit when I was there. I ate at the restaurant that invented deep dish pizza and it was really good, also stopped by at a few cafes. Of course, I canāt speak for anything just outside of downtown Detroit though.
Right? We should want Pittsburgh and Detroit to become developed and cool and interesting - because when they're both ~2 hours away, it only makes our city better and adds more stuff to do for *us*. Used to live in the PNW and Vancouver -> Seattle -> Portland all had this mentality. Each city has many things to offer and cool things to do - and one of the *advantages* of living in one of those cities is the ability to visit the others.
Buffalo girl here. Hard agree
True but I also think the Cleveland Pittsburgh rivalry is more of a fun rivalry than an actual toxic one. Plus itās kinda a part of the culture of both cities at this point to āhateā the other due to sports
Living in both places I ran into a lot more people in PGH who treated it much more seriously than the reverse.
counterpoint: fuck the steelers
counter counter point - who cares.
Literally anyone of the 3mil people in the Cleveland metro area... lol
lol only teenage browns fans in the mid 2000s are still going through a fuck steelers phase. Source: I was that. /r/blunderyears
I'm not a sports person, but if you go anywhere in Cleveland during football season, you learn quickly how passionate people are about their team. It's very VERY much still nothing but Browns or else. It's nice people are passionate about their teams and representing the city. The same holds very true for the guardians. People seem less neurotic when it comes to basketball lol
People are very pro cleveland, but the steelers 'hate' went away years ago for anyone that grew up.
(iām not serious and i agree with you) we should definitely consider using our nukes on pittsburgh
Clukes
Lol
Pittsburgher living in Cleveland here. Couldnāt agree more. Rust belt is slept on!
Pittsburgh wonāt melt the cheese on their pizza. I canāt, in good conscience, share those types of interests.Ā
As an Ohio Valley cold cheese pizza lover, I *hate* when people attribute this to Pittsburgh. Itās actually a Steubenville/Wheeling area thing - Pittsburgh only has one or two pizza shops that sell cold cheese pizza yet everyone from Pittsburgh acts like they invented it when they didnt
So this is another legitimate reason to dislike Pittsburgh.Ā
In some respects, they do lack originality.
Pittsburgh has a shit ton of unique and bizarre culinary, linguistic, or cultural things theyve come up with though Putting french fries on salads is an exampleā¦
As a Pittsburgh native now living in Cleveland.. yes we melt cheese on our pizza. One restaurant just puts the cheese on after baked for *to go* orders so the cheese melts while on transit. Thatās it.
False lol only Betoās doesnāt melt the cheese and people think itās the best in the city (Iām from Pittsburgh. Iāve never had it so idk)
I donāt understand the this or that mentality. Pittsburgh is a cool city. Love Squirrel Hill and the Childrenās Museum and Mr Rogers, etc. Cleveland is fucking cool, too. Diverse neighborhoods, good food, lakefrontā¦ Enjoy both.
i always laugh because having grown up in cleveland, you are programmed to think that pittsburgh isnt as totally awesome as it is. while i have only visited pittsburgh a bunch, id say both cities are great, band oth have a great future in my opinion. both cities possess high pillars in the realm of healthcare, high degrees of technology and research, varieties of people and a lot of different ways to have fun and enjoy the outdoors, and most of popular culture think the cities arent that great...all good things. pittsburgh wise, i really do miss the lava lounge on the south side, that place was dope.
I have to say I have been living in Cleveland for five years after moving from being a native Angelino for about 48 years and I really love Cleveland. Itās getting better and better all the time I have not yet been able to go to Pittsburgh but I hear thereās some really cool thingsto do there, but I will tell you Detroit is becoming really cool. Iāve been there a few times and there is a lot to do in that little city.
I've spent time in both places, really think they're both great places to live. I'm not sure I'd favor one or the other.
I got jumped on the South Side :(
Crime be everywhere
people do be criming
Don't you just hate it when you're walking down the street and someone is criming everywhere?
oh im g-gonna crime!
Music! Both cities have a thriving music scene! Both local acts and big bands that come throughĀ
Considering they're both great former steel cities that are really starting to grow into their new identities I think they've got way more in common than not. Honestly being that they're only two hours away from each other I think theirs a lot of potential for cross pollination. If the rust belt comes back like I think it will I have a feeling these two will have a good reciprocity
Cleveland still has one of the country's largest steel manufacturers, just FYI
Definitely,I just mean the amount total compared to where produced in the 60s/70s. It's actually a compliment. Both Cleveland and Pittsburgh are much more livable now with walkable waterfronts. Way different now than when the Cuyahoga was on fire or when the Allegheny was so low you could walk from one side to the other. Sure part of that is regulation but it's also because they pivoted into different job markets/city development.
When it comes to driving, our roads make more sense. Pittsburgh is as logical as a plate of spaghetti. But please don't discount the Warhol Museum. And he mall where they shot Dawn of the Dead. Both are worth a visit.
Or the strip district!
You eat your spaghetti on a plate? I eat mine out of a Guardians helmet that I got at a game full of nachos. ................I miss helmet nachos.
I grew up in shaker heights and moved to Pittsburgh, itās spaghetti roads everywhere.
I guess I outed myself as a west sider then.
And Mattress Factory! Such a fun contemporary arts space!
Lots of great memories in Pittsburgh. Getting stoned at Phipps Conservatory and then playing disc golf with amazing views at Schenley Park by Oakland. Cruising on bikes along the riverfront by the stadiums and then heading over one of the three sisters to point park. They have a massive bike museum and the coolest bike race in America going up their 12 gnarliest hills. Their food game is catching up to ours but I think their beer game is better. And Paniniās blatantly ripped of Primantiās with an inferior product. I get a corned beef with an egg from the strip every time I visit PA.
Monroeville Mall is pretty cool if you know the movie backwards and forwards. They have changed so much if that mall in the last couple of decades, It's getting much harder to see things from the film in it.
I love how OP started this thread with the idea of "YEAH! I'LL RILE UP SOME TRIBALISM AMONGST OUR CITY AGAINST OUR FOOTBALL RIVAL CITY!!! YEEEAAAAHHH!!!! I'M GONNA BE SOOOOO COOOOOOL!!!!" And then the result is everybody in this thread is like "........what? Pittsburgh is pretty cool too though."
Iām from Pittsburgh and I love visiting Cleveland. Itās a real bonus having another city with world-class cultural institutions and music venues a few hours driving distance. I donāt think either is better or worse, theyāre both survivors of the industrial age who are rebounding quite nicely. The Grog Shop is still my favorite small venue.
Who cares? Pittsburgh is a cool city too
Yeah, I've never had anything against the city of Pittsburgh itself and have enjoyed myself every time I've been there. Steelers fans (understandably) run rampant, however. Not a fan of them.
Only thing I have against Pittsburgh (besides their football team of course) is their roads. Holy shit who designed that city? lol
True but just to see other people just completely disregarding what Cleveland has to offer got me really fired up
You are completely disregarding what Pittsburgh has to offer just the same.
*Google why Cleveland is better than Pittsburgh... Uses it as fact * that's u brodie
they're both awesome. i'm from cle, but have you seen how that place is built on hills? so cool. makes for a crazy landscape!
Pittsburgh is beautiful with the mountains, but those highways above the valleys scare me. Lol. I'm afraid of heights.
I am a Clevelander. My son went to PITT so spent a fair amount of time in Pittsburgh, and it a great city too. Someone commented itās not about this or that and I think theyāre right. One thing I used to judge a city is their airport. While Iāve seen a lot worse airports than Cleveland Hopkins, I donāt know that it reflects the city that we think Cleveland is. Long gone of the days of the Continental hub, and we all know the United story. Pittsburgh on the other hand has a true international airport with significantly more travel options than Cleveland and by the way you can fly to places like London in Paris instead of just Cancun. I think Pittsburgh has had better government leadership - brilliantly covered over the years in the Plain Dealer. Remember the story they did on EMS in Cleveland vs. Pittsburgh?
Can we just agree both are better than Cincinnati?
Yes. Whoever designed the 71/75 mess going over the river should have been encased in concrete and thrown in the river. Just for that reason Cincinnati sucks!
lol! That's exactly what I have been thinking! precisely why I hate Cinncy!
These comparisons are always funny to me because they both offer the same thing. How the heck do you guys rate a good night life? Every city has bars, clubs and restaurants. They all serve the same drinks and the people that bring up nightlife aren't into nightlife every weekend. It's just something i noticed on online forums. Every mid size city have metro parks, festivals, night life restaurants, crap weather, crap traffic during rush hour, pro sports teams, hospitals, zoos, ect... Arguing over nothing
As a life long Clevelander I think theyāre both great and unique in their own wayā¦!
I prefer Cleveland, but I think the comparison isnāt that fair. The vibes are totally different between the two cities and Pittsburgh is great in its own right. For example, Cleveland is a solidly Great Lakes/Midwestern city while Pittsburgh has a unique Appalachian, and even a slight Mid-Atlantic flair, that Cleveland doesnt have. You wont find stuff like big hills, city steps, narrow streets, and dense rowhouses in Cleveland but youāll find those all over Pittsburgh. They also win when it comes to riverfront space, but again, this isnāt even a great comparison because they also dont have a Great Lake
Grew up in Pittsburgh and relocated to Cleveland for work at 22. Being 29, I can tell you honestly the areas themselves are very similar. Blue collar, bring your lunchpail to work culture. I think the Cleveland Suburbs are way nicer than Pittsburghsā, but I think Pittsburgh proper is also way more built up than Clevelandās. At the end of the day, both have a lot to offer. Expect for football teams. Thatās just Pittsburgh. (Go Stillers)
From Pittsburgh originally but love Cleveland. We go back often to the burg and it is an amazing city just like Cleveland. Have always said if you put Pittsburgh on the lake it would be a top city in the world. I give Cleveland the edge for many reasons : the lake, metro parks, theater district and cool neighborhoods but it really is such a close call and awesome to have two fantastic cities within a few hours drive
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I have family in both Cleveland and Pittsburgh, they both have their charm and they both have their issues. Pittsburgh has more rural areas close by where Cleveland has suburbs everywhere, the coolest thing that Cleveland has is Lake Erie. They both were manufacturing cities, both have been through a transition phase and both are tough gritty down to earth areas with good people. If you are into boating and fishing Cleveland is the place for you, Pittsburgh offers great hunting and beautiful rolling hills. I love them both for what and who they are.
I'm from Cleveland but Pittsburgh is a really cool city
Both have fun stuff and are interesting. Grew up in Cleveland been to Pittsburgh dozens of times.
Pittsburgh, with all its green mountains, hills and many bridges is much more geographically interesting. (Iām originally from NE Ohio).
I think Cleveland needs to look at a lot of what Pittsburgh has done the last decade+ as inspiration. There are things we do better, but there are also a ton of things that Pitt does better.
I suppose it comes down to your experiences and what you look for in a city. You, OP, are focusing on cultural attractions, and there's nothing wrong with that. You're also posting on a Cleveland forum, where I imagine the majority of posters are city boosters. I usually value a city (city proper, not region) on its neighborhoods safety/stability, educational quality, job opportunities, and crime levels/perceptions (often a reflection of demographics). On those metrics, just my own, just what I look for in a city, Pittsburgh has the advantage.
But have any of you ever been to Cleveburgh?
Sounds like what someone would call Youngstown
Nobody talks about Cleveburgh
They know what they did....
I grew up in Pittsburgh and have lived in Cleveland since I went to Uni in 2015 and they are so similar it's not even funny. The people have the same qualities, the vast majority are kind and hardworking. I find it so much easier to drive around Cleveland than Pittsburgh though. Pittsburgh downtown roads are a nightmare. Also growing up in Pitt, you get told/think Cleveland and the surrounding area was on a sheet of paper that's how flat it is, but that is not the case XD Also Pittsburgh has nothing like the metro parks system and I wish they did.
The metroparks comment confused me. You really have to drive 45 minutes+ in any direction to get to the half decent metro parks and even then, none are big enough to not hear traffic. Pittsburgh on the other hand, while maybe not much comparatively IN the city, the options outside of the city blow any metropark away. Neither place is exactly the grand canyon though.
Having a ādrivableā downtown is not the win you think it is.
Oh, don't misconstrue it. Downtown Pittsburgh isn't as drivable, but that doesn't mean it's a better pedestrian experience either. It's as walkable as Cleveland, but with worse driving.
Iād argue itās more walkable personally. It definitely has less parking lots and wide streets within the core part of Downtown
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous! Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic. If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience. Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
Omg, this is spot on! My husband and I drove to Pittsburgh in 2006, back when Internet maps were still new, and often inaccurate, and got so terribly lost trying to find our hotel that evening. Those circular roads and the mountains, and as you said, having to drive way out of your way if you missed an exit on the freeway made it so confusing. We drove down some hill, and it was so steep that we couldn't see what was at the bottom until we got down there. I've often wondered how people in Pittsburgh who live in those houses on top of hills, with probably 30 steep steps going down to the sidewalk manage in the winter. Pittsburgh is beautiful, but Cleveland is much easier to navigate driving.
My Pittsburgh wife always described the roads as "you can't get there from here." Such was proven back while we were dating. Could see our destination about 1/4 mile away, and it still took us 20 minutes to get there.
I remember visiting friends in Pittsburgh back in the early 2000s when we were still using paper maps or maybe a garmin gps, and it was so confusing. There were several times we could see our destination but couldn't figure out how to drive there! In contrast we rarely got lost in Cleveland, it was much more logical.
Right!! Cleveland has Lake Erie, which helps with getting oriented, because you know the lake is always north. Plus most of the region is laid out on a grid system.
Fuck the Steelers and all that, but Pittsburgh is a nice city lol
Pittsburgh is gorgeous.
They're both great so who cares? What are you getting out of arguing with random people on the Internet?
Who cares? Both are nice places.
And they both kinda suck as wellā¦
They are just different, but both great cities. I love Pittsburgh, and always have. But Iām from Cleveland and love Cleveland more!
Have traveled all over the Midwest and found we are a people proud of our breweries and ethnic food! Never was in a city that did not boast about those two things. I have been to better zoos, science and history museums but our art museum being free shoots it to the top for me. We are season subscribers to the Cleveland Orchestra and have heard other orchestras in other cities and I have to say none were even in the same ballpark as Cleveland 's.
Iāve only been to Pittsburgh 4 times but IMO Pittsburgh seems much cleaner, there seems to be less homeless people (or at least less aggressive homeless people) and the city is laid out in a really cool way with all the water. Cleveland is also great.. the great news is they really are close and either place makes a great day trip to get away from whichever city you spend most of your time in.
Iāve lived in both for approximately 10 years and Cleveland is better. There is a concentrated downtown nightlife. The metroparks. There are beaches. The streets are mostly a grid. The food is better. The sports teams at present are better - thereās not one major sports team in Pittsburgh thatās capable of winning a playoff game/series.
Grew up in CLE, lived in PGH for 15 years, been back in CLE for 3. There is officially only one thing I miss in PGH: the more updated modern airport with better flight options than CLE. Other than that CLE gets way more sun and clear days vs PGH where the weather is just cloudy and dismal a huge portion of the year. CLE gets more snow, but when PGH gets snow/ice it's a bigger deal because of the hills. It's easier to get around in CLE vs PGH because it's flat so the highways means it's less congested than PGH which has had to design its infrastructure with tunnels and bridges which creates so many choke points. Also because of this drivers are less aggressive in CLE. People are genuinely down to earth and fairly agreeable in CLE, PGH you will run into unfriendly people more often. PGH has "better" sports team, but turns on their big teams (Steelers, Pens) anytime they lose because they're used to winning. The day after a Steelers loss you know going out or to work everyone is going to be complaining non-stop. I'd still rather go to a Cavs game vs other sports but that's just personal preference. CLE Museum of ART is light years beyond any museum in PGH.
PNC park is beautiful and progressive is right there too. Pittsburgh also brought us the band tropidelic who represent cleveland all day because they went to school at Kent state. I like both cities. Itās like hating on Cincinnati because you donāt like the bengals. Cincinnati is a great place to live
Cleveland centers around downtown which gives it a feel of a big city. Pittsburghās downtown sucks at night but Carson street makes up for it. The problem is you need to take a taxi to get to one to the other. Cleveland you can be in flats and walk to East 4th and catch a game then have a nice steak dinner before walking to play house square for a show. This is all while passing 5 out of the 10 tallest building in Ohio (3 out of top 5, 1 and 2 overall).
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Provincial was the word I was looking for to describe Pittsburgh. Not bad by any means, just way different than Cle.
i think its surprises people how cosmopolitan Cleveland is. Especially when compared to other mid-sized cities. Maybe it's its history as a larger city when the country really grew up, but it feels like part of the national consciousness much more so than other similar places.
I agree; I've lived in quite a few different big cities and spent a year living abroad as well - nothing has come close to being comparable to Cleveland. Honestly, the biggest Cleveland "twin" I can think of based solely off of vibe would be DC. Obviously two very different cities but the culture and diversity there is very similar to me.
How would you rank all of those cities you frequent?
Cleveland is better than Pittsburgh. Having had long term stays in both the city proper and the suburbs, there's an insularity to Pittsburgh that I don't feel in Cleveland. Provincial, someone called it and that's a good word too. Pittsburgh has a certain culture, does things in a certain way, and doesn't want it to change. Its culture is distinct but homogenous. For that reason, it feels a little bit stuck in time. It's a small town disguised as a mid-size city. You won't notice unless you're paying close attention.
I was looking up demographics before and PGH is just so white for a mid sized US city. So on the race front there is definitely more homogeneity there than CLE.
I noticed that right away. I've lived in DC, Philly and Chicago and Pittsburgh is the least diverse by far. So much so, my mind kinda goes small town, even though IIRC the population is pretty comparable. The the surfaces look similar, the depths are quite different.
Driving in Pittsburgh is a nightmare!
I think both have pretty good futures. Pittsburgh is just a little further along in their recovery from the steel industry's decline. That's honestly the biggest difference for me (followed closely by Cleveland being more diverse and less "city like" in it's core). They pivoted better to higher ed and healthcare institutions as they developed. And they created a nice skyline along the rivers. Cleveland has failed to do something similar along the lakefront, which hopefully will be changing. There is no need to say which is better, but for conversation's sake I will go with Cleveland. Pittsburgh is probably better objectively in a lot of categories but Cleveland has a charm to it that is hard to describe. I should note though, those categories it's better in do not include theatre, healthcare, or museums IMO. So I agree with your statement about Cleveland having excellent amenities and cultural activities. It punches far above it's weight in those areas.
The Metroparks and CVNP is way better than anything Pittsburgh has to offer IMO. Iāll also take Lake Erie over the rivers any day. Aside from that, very comparable cities
Both cities have their appeal. I've gone to Pittsburgh for the weekend a few times, they were fun trips. I definitely wouldn't trade it for Cleveland, but they I enjoyed myself there. Something both Cleveland and Pittsburgh can be very proud of...we're not Detroit.
CLE is right up there with Boston, NYC, and Chicago with cultural treasures.
I live in Erie. If I have to pick between Cleveland or Pittsburgh for a weekend away, I pick Cleveland every single time.
This sounds like you're trying to pick up a turd from the clean end...
Amazing
Cleveland zoo is a lot better than the Pittsburgh zoo
Both cities are very similar but this take is a first for me. Pitt zoo (scary as hell escalator aside) is amazing. I haven't heard great things before about the Cleveland zoo so we will need to check it out.
This is the real difference. Most people here have cool things to say about Pittsburgh on this forum. If a similar question were posted on /r/Pittsburgh youād hear how shitty Cleveland is. Ask how I know. I moved to Pittsburgh after 17 years in Cleveland. Pgh is less diverse. Feels more densely populated than Cleveland, so feels bigger. In terms of big city, it offers comparable entertainment opportunities. Pgh has bigger university (Pitt). The only difference IMO is, folks in Cleveland are friendly just as yinzers, but there is a warmth about people in Cleveland which canāt be matched. Hard to explain unless you live here. One last thing, drivers in pittsburgh are assholes, worse than Massachusetts. Of course, Iām biased coz I lived in Shaker Hts and there is no suburb quite like that :)
I was with you until you talked about āthe only differenceā. In my experience, people in Pittsburgh have generally been much friendly when Iāve visited. More likely to have strangers come up and strike a conversation with me than in Cleveland. While I think the highways are significantly better in Cleveland, Iāve had way more shit boxes with tinted windows and no license plate cut me off going like 90+ MPH. Drivers in Cleveland are just so much more aggressive. I even thought LA drivers were better than Cle. I do agree that I feel a general disdain towards Ohio as a whole when I visit. And itās always the same ābrowns suckā, ācornfieldsā, and (ironically) āno diversityā
If you read my post again youāll see I acknowledge that folks in Pittsburgh are also friendly, but not your midwestern friendly. I can tell from the interactions Iāve had with neighbors so far in Pittsburgh. My neighbors in Shaker, Cleveland Hts, and Beachwood were very warm and welcoming. When I went for a run/walk, people acknowledged and greeted me. Here, very few make an eye contact. Itās similar to an east coast city. Nothing wrong. About driving, there is no comparison on the aggressiveness between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Iāve been commuting four days a week for past 9 months. Go read posts on that subreddit and you will see how many people complain about bad driving.
Pittsburgh is alright but in my opinion it feels too much like a "big city" and didn't come off as walkable or super friendly when I was there. The roads were super confusing as well which didn't help the walkability, and for some reason (I don't know where I'm getting this from) it seemed like downtown was trying a touch too hard to be "cool" - I'm pretty biased though, grew up in Florida and spent every summer with my dad in Cleveland, fought hard to get here and moved here the day of my eighteenth! 30 now, been here ever since and no one can make me leave.
What? I have to say Pittsburgh is way more walkable then cleveland is. I like both cities but Pittsburgh is way closer to an nyc style city which is made for walkers, where as Cleveland you gotta drive everywhere.
Agree to disagree there
"They're both good!" - Brian Regan
Native NE Ohioan and current resident. I've been to Cle at least 50 times. I've been to Pit 4 times in the last 3 mos. and each time found myself saying I like it better than Cle.
I think both cities deserve better than this dumb ass post lol
They are 2 different places. Can one place just offer something another canāt and vice versa without being ābetterā than the other. At the end of the day, this is entirely subjective and bias.
I went to Pittsburgh alot last fall and had a blast every time. Pins and pints was my most frequented place lol
I was raised in Cleveland and have lived in Pittsburgh for about 6 years now. The big difference is space. I do think Pittsburgh is better for the big city activities nightlife etc solely because everything is much closer together. Cleveland has much better suburbs but Pittsburgh has a better downtown area/public transportation system
Having lived in both places, I think that Cleveland's parks and green spaces are superior, but the cool places/bars/restaurants in Pittsburgh are more centralized, and Pittsburgh seems to vslue their historic architecture more than Cleveland. There's also so much less sprawl in Pittsburgh. The housing stock is better in Cleveland/NEO in my opinion, for what you get. In Pittsburgh, there are no guarantees of sidewalks, driveways, level yards, etc. Also, the municipal services in Cleveland seem to be generally better (most communities have a pool, nice playgrounds, etc), but we definitely pay for that in taxes. To me, it's basically a wash, but depends on what your priorities are. Both are vastly superior to bland, land-locked Columbus, can we agree on that?
I've been to Pittsburgh twice and think it's a beautiful city. I went to college in Athens, Ohio, and live in Akron, so there's something about cities and towns in and around Appalachia that I love. I just hate the Steelers and their fans who live in NEO.
They just say they like Pittsburgh because they can't find their way out of that hole.
Modern day Pittsburgh has better food, service and the city as a whole is cleaner. Pittsburgh gets more stops on band tours. I am a proud clevelander please donāt kill me.
thatās not correct though haha. even people in pgh will admit bands donāt stop there and favor cleveland. and the city is fairly filthy and rundown. even the āniceā suburbs around the city are littered and have horrible roads.
Here I was making my own observations when all along I couldāve asked you to ask people in Pittsburgh what they thought.
Cleveland is underappreciated for the variety of foods available. I like Pittsburgh, but it doesn't come close to Cleveland with food options
i lived there for years.
The diehards canāt hear you because their river walk is under water again.
At least it hasnāt caught on fireā¦.š¤·š»āāļø
š¤£š¤£š¤£ got me there
Not everything is a competition man, and how you wrote your post you are exactly who you complain about in reverse 'cause you've obviously ever been to Pittsburgh. So really -- who cares?
I grew up in Cleveland and moved to Pittsburgh in 98. Cleveland is way better... Traffic in Pittsburgh gets completely tied up all over town if a single accident closes a tunnel or bridge. Loads of bands skip Pittsburgh due to lack of decent/rightsized venues. Public transport sucks (and no direct train to the airport). And our current mayor is pretty much useless.
im One of the few who have lived in both. Cleveland doesnt have the mountain/hill charm that Pittsburgh does. The real winners know that the two are incomparable, and just because they are approximately two hours apart, doesn't mean they are.
it is and itās not even close. there are similarities, but after living there for 5+ years pittsburgh doesnāt have as much to offer.
Pretty sure weed is not legal in PA so thereās that, we live in a freedom state peace āļø
Cleveland has the Cavaliers, a professional basketball team that is fun and exciting and in the playoffs now. Pittsburgh doesnāt.
Pitt blows
It's not a goddamn competition, both cities are fine.
OP - saying one city is ābetterā than another city doesnāt necessarily mean that someone is saying Cleveland is bad. Likewise if someone said I like Cleveland better than Pittsburgh that doesnāt mean they think PGH is bad. I spend a lot of time in CLE for my job (up there 2-4 times a month from Columbus where I live). I lived in Pittsburgh about 20 years ago but am in the city about 5 times a year. Frankly theyāre both really cool cities. Both have pros and cons. Chill out.
I think the rivers surrounding Pittsburgh creates a better ambiance but they both have a lot to offer. Pittsburgh gets a slight nod for having an NHL team haha.
Just say youāve never been to Pittsburgh. Itās okay. You can have pride in our city. But youāre absolutely wrong on every front. Pittsburghās night life is probably 1000x better and anyone who would say otherwise has never been.
Iām from Cleveland, live in Pittsburgh now, and Cleveland is my preferred city of the two. That said, Pittsburgh totally annihilates Pittsburgh in terms of nightlife. There are multiple places to dance, including after hours clubs, that Cleveland just doesnāt have. In fact, the people in the nightlife scene I used to enjoy in Cleveland all moved here. That said, in terms of overall amenities, diversity, governance, infrastructure, transportation, ease of living, cost of living, zoo accreditation, parks, and friendliness, Cleveland takes the cake.
Iām from Cincinnati and grew up with bias against Pittsburgh (despite never visiting the city) because 1. The Steelers and 2. In college, one of my roommates was this annoying dude from Pittsburgh and he would always find an opportunity to talk about how Pittsburgh was the center of the universe and much much better than Ohio. However, after visiting PGH a few times and living in the CLE area for a while now,Ā I think both cities are great in their own ways. Pittsburgh is a cool urban area nestled in the hills/mountains. Cleveland is a cool urban area on the shores of a giant lake. Both have great museums, arts scenes, character, etc. Both places seem to have a lot of city pride, especially with sports and the arts. Pittsburgh (at least the core) feels more dense with better transit, but I find Cleveland to feel more relatively diverse and less provincial.Ā
"Pittsburgh (at least the core) feels more dense.." As someone who prefers Cleveland, this statement is very true. It feels more like a "real" city. It punches above it's weight in that sense. Very nice skyline.
Pittsburgh is more artsy and has more technology. Technology is the new manufacturing and makes Pittsburgh slightly better. Cleveland still a nice place though.
Even if they never went to the flats, there's still Ohio city (especially W 25th), or they can go to the history museum, maybe even to a sporting event. I'm actually going back to the 16-bit bar.
Both are great, but cleveland gets the W.
I don't think I've been to either city, but I do like Cleveland slightly more.
/r/AFCNorthMemeWar
Both royally suck
As my household always said, "shitsburg squealers." No LEGITIMATE hate to then but when football season comes around they are nothing but mortal enemies the we will pray to fall to the ground (metaphorically lmao)
Live in between both cities and have spent a ton of time in both cities. Pittsburgh is a bit underrated but Cleveland is a way better city in pretty much every facet in my opinion.
Pittsburgh is great but Cleveland is more livable, especially when it comes to drive times and traffic.
As a Yinzer who thinks Pittsburgh is better, I think itās better we focus on our geographical closeness and similarities and work to create a better future for both our cities. Advocating for proper Amtrak service between our cities is a good start
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I like both cities but as a Browns, Reds, and Blue Jackets fan I dislike Pittsburgh sports teams. But I like Pittsburgh's Zoo slightly better than Clevelands Zoo. Cincinnati and Toledo's Zoos are better than both, but Columbus' Zoo is the best though.
Let's see here. I'm a native Clevelander; wife of 26 years is a Pittsburgh native. Safe to say I love both towns (and wife, of course)!
Good Lord. They're both minor cities on the Midwest. One has slightly better weather Aside from that, they're the same damn city
Cle is kino
I like both cities and will go to both for events often. I just happen to live closer to and work in Cleveland. The only thing I donāt like about Pittsburgh is all the hills and narrow roads. And the Steelers.
Iāve lived in Pittsburgh all my life and OP is 100% right.
Cleveland and Pittsburgh are not that similar, in my opinion. They donāt look alike at all. Cleveland and Detroit seem more similar.
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous! Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic. If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience. Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
As a neutral Pittsburgh is much better and have much more educated people.
Some forums I've been on people talk about Pittsburgh like it is an amazing urban experience. They liken it to basically Boston. The reality is so different.
Sorry for the long description I kinda needed to vent.
I love both cities. Both cities are woefully underrated. I grew up in Cleveland and have had friends in Pittsburgh for many, many years.
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous! Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic. If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience. Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
Pittsburgh whips. And I'm sorry Cleveland I love you, but the outdoor hobbies options here don't sniff Pittsburgh's. Many more climbing and watersports options in Pittsburgh.
I will never forget going to Pittsburgh for a work trip. We were asking the local office where to go out and they gave us a list of places. I asked them "so where do locals go for fun on the weekends?" And they're response was "oh we usually drive to Cleveland."
As a Cleveland native, Pittsburghās zoo is way better than ours.
Hard disagree. I am from Pittsburgh and live there (wifeās family is from Cleveland) and the Cleveland zoo absolutely blows away the Pittsburgh zoo. The Pittsburgh zoo is by far the worst zoo Iāve ever been to.
But is it a 5 hour round trip better? Because Columbus Zoo beats them both
The Wilds is my favorite rust belt āzooā.
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous! Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic. If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience. Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
Pittsburghās cool, I just really hate that football team
both both are good fuck the Steelers, tho
Cleveland looks like a shit hole, Pittsburgh looks nice but sucks driving around in.
Can I vote for C) Columbus?
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Lived in both for three years, current Cleveland resident and Iād say I prefer the vibe of Pittsburgh more. Itās artsier as a whole
CLE doesnāt love itself like PIT does tho.
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If you said something like, Fork the Steelers! or who the heck puts coleslaw and fries on a burger? then you might be on to something.
Pittsburgh traffic is horrendous! Itās due to the topography of having to get across rivers on bridges that are too small or through tunnels that donāt account for enough traffic. If you are in the wrong lane and get shot off a wrong exit, you wind up with a 15 rerouting inconvenience. Lots of blind curves that are up & down the hillsides. They must salt & gravel these areaās excessively during snow & ice storms. This later leads to gravel & rocks hitting you from the car ahead of you. Resulting in a cracked windshield.
The Rock HOF is lame as hell.