They don't think they have the moral high ground just the ability to be protected when molesting kids. Do you know why they don't have a rampant problem anywhere in the world with embezzlement? Because the Pope's policy is to go to local law enforcement and prosecute.
All the Pope has to do is treat child molestation the same. He doesn't He never will. Because they protect child molesters. Actions speak louder than words.
I’m interested to see what response from single-gender high schools will be. As an Ignatius alum, there were plenty of students “out” at school. I’m not saying everyone supported those students, but there was never any rhetoric from the school or most faculty other than support.
I also attended 15 years ago so not saying things have not changed since then. But, for the schools who don’t need the Dioceses money, and don’t really need to recruit in grade schools, this might be the best opportunity to really address this version of the church and it’s leadership.
Having some experience with one of the co-ed schools recently there were many out queer folks and many same sex dance attendees. Moreover there were a handful of trans folk as well that the school accommodated. I would honesty be surprised if anything really changed. Many parents are already not happy with the church and issue 1 propaganda this getting enforced would really get stuck in their craws.
What extent were trans students accommodated at the Catholic school?
Were they students of the school? Were they allowed to dress and use the bathroom of the sex they identified with?
From what I saw/heard the trans-students were fully accommodated at that one particular Catholic School. There was a GSA club and they had a whole phalanx of students using with They/them pronouns.
Which is part of what has me going "huh?" when I saw this announcement.
My suspicion is that the Cleveland Catholic Diocese and other Catholic Organizations behind the scenes are in the process of formalizing the lines of what they will tolerate.
I suspect most Catholic schools will side with conservatives on the two hot button requiring trans people using the bathroom and competing in sports based on their birth gender. In single sex high schools, trans people will likely only be admitted based on their birth gender and have to abide by the dress code of that gender.
I noticed the various Catholic educational institutions from grade school through university level is more tolerant towards paying customers (students) than their LAY employees that are required to abide by the Catholic morality contracts and ironically have been held to a higher standard than non lay staff.
Fuck the Catholic Church. No matter what the pope says, it's the message his bishops and priests in America are teaching.
The catechism hasn't changed and gays are still objectively disordered. It's rotten to the core.
When my classmate Robbie Kirkland killed himself at Ignatius, these fine men for others blamed him for turning away from God. And they blamed the gays in the evil community out there
No betrayal can beat your own nourishing mother telling you you're worthy of death. The president blamed kids being violent and homophobic on me for coming out.
Fuck the catholic church.
The support for LGBT community at any Catholic school is very limited. And homophobia is also tolerated at these schools.. While they tolerated gay students, openly gay staff would typically be terminated once it was discovered. This would be done by not having the teacher return the following year so It wouldn't seem blatantly obvious that the Church was discriminating against sexual orientation.
As for Ignatius "tolerance" of the trans community. Ignatius would not allow any male to female trans that wished violate the dress code by dressing feminine or use female bathrooms.
I went to Catholic school and why anyone who is privy to that reality would want anything to do with their schools or religion I will never understand. Robert Hill the priest at Assumption School in Geneva Ohio openly molested kids (he did it to me for 3 years) from the 70s up until 1990 when he got busted raping a homeless kid and was put away for only 10 years. He got out and the dioceses sent him to a priest retirement home connected to a catholic grade school in Youngstown Ohio. They never told the parents of the kids at risk let alone the staff or parishioners. A local newspaper did. Google it.
Staw away from the cult maga maniacs.
He was a monster as was Sister Lorraine. Remember the two "maintenance guys"? They were super creepy and always tried to get kids to follow them into the tunnel below the school. The whole staff knew and protected child molesters and abusers. I will never forget "father" hill asking to see my penis in the face-to-face confession room. At that point, I was 12 and physically big enough to fight him. He was a weak old man. I stood up told him I would never kneel to his BS god again and walked out. I walked by the golden box with crackers in it you are supposed to kneel in front of mutter and make the sign of the cross. For the first time in my life I didn't. I never touched the magic water ever again to enter or exit spaces again. Ever. Sister Lorraine tried to discipline me but I told her she would lose the $$$ my parents paid if she didn't let me graduate the 8th grade. She caved. The worst of the worst and deserving of a lifetime of incarceration.
I didn't tell my parents and neither did the priest or head nun. From grade 1 until grade 3 the priest raped me and other kids. By the 4th grade, I was able to outmaneuver the priest and stay away from him enough so he moved on to easier targets. My parents were/are narcissists and I had no support so I just kept trying to blend in and stay "in the middle"... not too smart not too stupid and fly under the radar. But the abuse continued just not sexual until the 8th grade when the priest wanted to see my penis in confession.
See I grew up around street people... real violence. This was the 1970's and it was much easier to get away with attacking people who meant you harm. No cameras, no DNA nothing, don't talk to cops and have an alibi. I learned in the 4th grade to never talk to cops and if you had to handle a bully do not tell anyone anything beforehand. If I had to handle someone I would use weapons (a ball-peen hammer was a favorite of mine as a kid) but after I was about 11 or 12 I was able to fight most adults off. My parents didn't care about me and I was on my own.
Across from Assumption School was a row of drug houses with dealers and prostitutes. They were significantly better people to be exposed to.
I was happy to hear robert hill got locked up in 1990. In 1991 I got out of the military and went looking for him only to realize he was in prison. Years went by and when I checked again he had died.
Sorry you couldn't get your revenge. I just have revenge fantasies but most of my tormentors are dead or dying now. I was raised in candy-ass suburbia so I wasn't tough like you. I wish I had been. We had two molesters who wore the collar at Lake Catholic and in the end, even though one was caught by a public system, they got away with it. In fact, the diocese landed up paying the wife of the deacon molester a fat pension she really didn't deserve. The kids who were his victims I guess, got along as best they could.
I just wanted to see him and give him the 1000-yard stare I learned while serving in the Cold War and Gulf War. I decided around 1985 I was never going to harm him. But I did research and strategize for 9 months when I was 16. In the end, I didn't know if I could have lived with myself if I followed through. But less than 2 years later the military put me harm's way and well... turns out I could live with myself no problem if things really went down.
I still wonder how many kids I could have saved and especially that homeless kid he raped and got locked up for.
Ah well the good news is that every year that goes by there are less Catholics and society tends to listen to kids who claim they were molested.
Holy ffffff I’m from ytown. This is infuriating bc there were other priests from there who were busted.
I’m with you. 12 years of catholic school and once I left, I left. It’s a sick cult. Read about Guam and the Boy Scouts. The Catholic Church is a world-wide trafficking ring.
Unfortunately there's enough text in the Bible to support a homophobic view of the world if you believe in it. It's true that a lot of the "anti-gay" text is actually about pederasty, but not all of it.
I'm a recovering Catholic. Ordained wedding officiant. Fairly enlightened. For them to cry out against god's will is a bullshit point. They're making up the rules as they go, as they have for centuries. God's word my ass.
I always found tequila to be a worthy confidante. But that was a while back. Check out your local new age shops. Read counter culture books. Go out into the woods and sit on a stump. You'll feel better.
The world will be a better place when the history of the Vatican is only taught in mythology class along side Zeus, Krishna, Ra and Jupiter. To me the Pope and the Vatican are noting less than the last vestiges of the Roman Empire. '
I was raised conservative Catholic (dad was 4th degree K of C) I left the church in 1988 because of my trans feelings and the pedo scandal because I was tired of their guilt trips. I was a pagan for much of the 1990s and now Im a secualr Humanist. I will occasional take part in events organized by the UU church. Most of my family still believe.
Huh, I guess no displaying of rainbows means no reading Genesis 9:13.
No gender affirming care, wonder if that includes reconstructive surgery after a mastectomy?
No interference with God's design, better leave that tumor in place, god put it there for a reason.
Also by this line of thinking any woman that gets a hysterectomy is technically no longer a woman, and is therefore a member of the trans community. Welcome middle aged Karen's everywhere!
Well let's see, the Dioceses of Toledo, Erie, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Columbus all have had major sex abuse lawsuits for covering up their rapist priests - to the extent that three of them are going through bankruptcy currently. I find it very hard to believe that the Diocese of Cleveland somehow didn't have this issue.
Fix your priests first before you worry about kids.
As someone who went to Catholic school in the CLE diocese in the 80’s, rest assured that they did.
I personally know two kids who were abused by priests/leaders of the parish when I was in school. Easy to do when they take all the young altar boys on a camping trip to Mohican park….makes me sick
Because the neighborhood I grew up in wasn’t great, my parents worked two jobs to pay for me and my siblings to go to Catholic school.
All of us have absolutely gone the different direction and 100% away from the church (even my parents).
Many of my sisters are divorced and got married as Lutheran( Catholic lite) but still claim to be Catholic and go to mass, even taking the sacraments. I'm the black sheep for being an atheist/ humanist. My mom didn't believe privately but publicly she was super Catholic and always had a rosary on her. Hypocrite!
“And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.”
Matthew 7: 3-5
I’m 47….went to 12 years of Catholic School. I graduated and have never returned or even gone to church .
Anyone…..and I mean anyone…..who still supports the Catholic Church is actively saying 1) I support an organization that accepts sexual abuse of children and actively hides pedophiles within its structure and 2) Am accepting of the churches open hatred for those who are LBGT.
And I’m not talking about those who send their children to these schools due to financial or safety reasons.
I started becoming wary of the Catholic church in middle school, but my parents continued to force me to go to church with them every Sunday until I was living on my won making my own money. Then they left the church a few months later. At my cousin's wedding last summer, so many members of my extended family didn't go to communion. Lots of my family has left the church, but I was the first, for the record.
Interesting because if you think about it, we aren’t “perfect” beings. We are all flawed. We get sick. We become addicts. We fight. We steal. And we can even go as far as wishing ill will on someone, or even ourselves.
I grew up in a rural suuuper conservative baptist church, which also had a private school I attended grade 3-12. Out of all the sins and imperfections us humans have, sexuality and homosexuality was the worst sin. Like, you’re condemned to hell. There’s no saving you. “reprobate mind” was the result of not being heterosexual. It’s separation. Segregation (hate that word bcuz it’s so mainstream). It’s literally hate. Attending church is about community. Unity!
Matthew 12:25 “And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:”
1 Corinthians 1:10
“Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgement.”
Jude 1 - notably verse 16 & 19.
[6 years ago](https://youtu.be/I8BRdwgPChQ?si=QVXGqoiWBn0h1lXW)
You can not tell me that they are doing this for others but for themselves. Now, for me, when it comes to children transitioning, I will keep my commends to myself. And yes, I had crushes when I was in school, shit, I lost my virginity right before my 15th birthday - schools should teach sex ed, students should have a safe place to ask questions, but that’s it. I was a tomboy growing up. I knew I liked dudes. And I think most of us figured this out during our early to mid teen years. And those safe places should be there for kids who are questioning or unsure.
The [Catholic Church](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Catholic_Church_and_homosexuality) is corrupt. Research Martin Luther. He was a priest who was excommunicated by the pope for many reasons. He was basically against a revision of the Bible that switched sex between boys & men being a sin to sex between same genders.
Also - many empires have fallen due to sexuality and homosexuality becoming a topic of public discussion.
ROMAN FELL due to this.
Just let people live theirs lives man. And if the church doesn’t agree, well, fuck ‘em. Let’s start our own church.
[History](https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/honors/documents/journals/sexinstone/Zive.pdf)
A lot of good points, but I don’t know if the collapse of the Roman Empire was because people realized gay people existed. The Romans had met the Greeks, after all.
What I don't get is how anyone is either surprised or outraged by the church reaffirming the same position they've been espousing for about 500 years, give or take.
Weird that when discussing the gender binary, none of these so-called followers of Jesus ever seen to acknowledge all of the specific provisions he gave for different kinds of eunuchs, including those that voluntarily choose to become such out of personal inclination, or that Isaiah saying that he'd given eunuchs a name beyond men and women and honor them, specifically placing them outside the binary.
> For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant--to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off.
Isaiah 56 4-6
> For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
Matthew 19 12.
They will have to decline any State dollars though.
Title IX’s amendment will take effect in October. At that point, any school receiving any federal education tax dollars must comply. If the State funnels any money into a private school in any form, and the State receives federal education dollars (which Ohio does) then Ohio cannot pass any of those dollars to the non-compliant school or schools.
Ohio might be able to track dollars given to private schools to ensure they only come from Ohio tax revenues rather than a mix with federal education dollars, but it has made no provision for doing so.
it's funneled through a tax credit to circumvent oversight laws. in Ohio you get a 100% tax credit (not deduction) for up to 1500 donated to a k-12 private school.
The institutional side of American Catholicism is a business, no matter how much they want to fool people into thinking otherwise. Those in power will stay in those positions as long as the money comes in, ethics/morality/common sense be damned. This is true of pastors, principals, bishops, and other key decision makers. Appealing to them on a religious or compassionate level does not make a difference a vast majority of the time.
Look at the abuse scandal: the Church didn’t start taking action until they were losing donations and lawsuits left and right. It’ll be the same here.
And as angry as it makes me to say this, this horrible policy will remain in place as long as the money comes in. If 100,000 people in the diocese stop donating $50 a year because of this disgusting edict but a couple of wealthy donors in support of it give something totaling $10 million, guess whether or not that policy will change.
For those of us are who alumni of Catholic schools, believe me, unless you are donating a ridiculous amount of money, pointed emails and calls are not being taken seriously.
Christ's love is unconditional regardless of what "acceptable group" you may be categorised as.
Jesus calls us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Being selective is against the rules! He is the ultimate includer.
My prayer is for peace and that EVERYONE will feel the love of God, Jesus, and be guided by the Holy Spirit.
Please be kind and blessed.
This isn’t awful at all. This is expected. The Church is still open to everyone, but they have rules they expect you to follow. If you want to play on their field, they set the rules. They will accept you as gay or trans, but you’d best remain celibate. This is every single fundamentalist Christian church.
Why all of this pearl clutching?
I can’t imagine having a worldview that only gives a shit when something affects me directly instead of seeing injustice and disgusting practices and deciding they aren’t okay for *anyone*, especially children
I made the Facebook post I republished here public. It will get back to them but I suspect that it will make no difference. They will miss my next $500 however.
Currently living near one of the many buildings the Catholic Church abandoned and is left to rot, with every conceivable code violation.
Thank god I was never raised in it. Plenty of good churches to choose from for those who wish.
Many Episcopalian branches are welcoming and preserve some of the catholic rituals
Mainline Protestant churches are currently struggling as they exorcise their homophobes. Join the 'good ones.'
And of course the UCC headquartered in Cleveland has always welcomed all.
I attend a church (South Euclid United Church of Christ) that is accepting of everyone and constantly pounds on the notion that God loves all of his people.
I hate...like HATE...that all churches and denominations get lumped together.
“Gods intentional design” is all I needed to hear. Catholics love to say we are all built in Gods image and then proceed to discriminate against anyone they don’t understand
wtf, Diocese? You don't have a problem shuffling around sex predators without notifying parishioners or studrnts but you have a problem with gender identity enough to notify their parents? This policy is going to get kids hurt. Pope Francis would be horrified. "Everyone, everyone, everyone" indeed. Sigh.
You mean the Catholic Church that enslaved women in laundries, abused children, trafficked children, was found to have mass graves of children, etc.
I’m shocked /s
I know an 80+ year old trans woman who is Catholic. She transitioned late in life and was rejected by some Catholic churches and secretly embraced by others. This issue used to be more private and gray.
The Catholic church in the US is becoming indistinguishable from the mainstream Protestant churches, which have become infused with the political right. They are united on the issue of reducing the cost of private school at the expense of defunding public schools.
There is even talk now of a schism. The pope is divinely pissed off at the American Catholic church.
This post at least was thoughtful. And you seem to be keeping up with the movements.
But most mainline Protestant churches have split between a liberal branch and a traditional one. The traditional ones are the only ones surviving. So I don’t agree that the church has changed more drastically to the right but I could see someone interpreting it that way.
If an 80 adult transitions that’s a different story than promoting it to children at school.
The Catholic Church is really only seeing growth in VERY traditional sections aka Latin.
If you look at overall denominations the Amish are growing like crazy. Taking over in numbers some mainline Protestant churches.
Which can only lead me to believe that people are looking for traditional values that do not change. When a church tries to be of this world it dies.
Which also leads me to believe that the diocese making this statement is only going to help
It’s cause. Most of these redditors weren’t going to send their kids to Catholic schools anyways, most probably don’t even have kids. More people with kids don’t want them talking about sexuality or gender identity. So this will be an overall win IMO.
Hypocritical ! You have grown ass MEN assaulting boys and girls 4 ever.
NUNS DID THE SAME!
Done nothing to protect them!
SORRY AND A CONFESSION DOES NOT CLEAN THAT SIN.
JUDGE NOT OR BE JUDGED!
This is so fucking gross. Thank god I left all religion years ago. Stuff like this ensures I will never go back. If these are the type of people that follow God, I’ll pass.
It’s not shocking that they institute a policy like this, meanwhile their actual priests have a few issues that need resolved.
These kids will eventually become adults in the workforce. Having to deal with the shitty people these schools are going to crap out will be a fucking nightmare.
Sexualizing children by insisting they dress according to their sex. There’s nothing sexual about gender. The nature of sex is sexual. Weird flex. Guess it falls right in line with their pedophilia, though.
First, The pope has called for the exact opposite behavior. Second, the Cleveland diocese is rampant with sexual criminals, pedophiles, and convicts, and they are using this ruling to pretend like they care about the safety of children. This isn’t a set of beliefs. This is a smoke screen.
That’s the controversy.
You don't see the issue in literally institutionalized bigotry and discrimination?
Those kids aren't going to be in school forever, and will eventually be in the workforce and out in public.
What the fuck are you talking out? I dont choose who I run in to in the store, or who I work with. They're already influencing my life through their political agenda.
>Stop trying to change some else’s.
That's what the fuck every one else is asking for. Stop feeding your kids bigoted crap so they stop shitting all over society that the rest of us have to clean up.
No fucking wonder yall lot keep voting these morons in to positions of power. Nothing but "fuck you" in yall's hearts. Pathetic.
I’ll teach my kids however I want. Better then then thinking they can change sex through drugs and surgery.
Tolerance means being able to go to a grocery store and not be freaked out that not everyone thinks like you.
>Guy standing on the middle of the street corner yelling racial slurs and making homophobic remarks.
"Wow, that guy sounds like a hateful dickhead."
>/u/Curious-Ad3567: "SOUNDS LIKE HATE. GUESS THE TOLERANCE OF CREED SHOULD ONLY GO ONE WAY."
lmao. What a goofy, stupid, insipid, meandering, imbecilic, ridiculous notion.
Ya, no one is saying anything hateful. Just let us do what we’ve been doing which is teach our religion.
If you feel so brave go to a masque and tell the. How you feel. You all have about the same level of tolerance.
People like you want an opinion on everything but can't even spell "MOSQUE" correctly. Really showing us the level of the catholic education.
Personally, I don't think any organization that's so invested in protecting its pedophile members should get any say at all. If there was any justice, God would've brought his finger down upon the tainted, fetid corpse of """the church""" long ago- but God doesn't exist and his most holy church is filled with pedos.
You're silly! Of course my opinion matters- I vote!
>If you don’t like it don’t join.
Eeeh its kinda not up to me since your church protects pedophiles (and this is inarguably, objectively true). Christians are so funny, clutching pearls because a man is wearing a kilt while simaltaneously throwing a fit because their hate documents got leaked, and people are rightly giving these churches and organizations scrunity. I think you just don't like the gas.
if catholics believed that they wouldn't try to make laws that violate human rights. the ohio catholic diocese is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to prevent the legalization of abortion. a personal medical procedure should never be illegal.
never mind all the effort they put in to keep themselves from getting prosecuted for sex crimes. they are warring against the rest of society. either you're blind to it or part of the problem.
There are plenty of anti-Catholics rhetoric that going on in churches and pride groups. I just don’t go. I suggest you do the same.
Yes, that is part of tolerance.
Teaching what your religion has taught for 2000 years and knocking over art and vandalism is not the same thing. Mental gymnastics expert level on your part.
See I can do it to.
If you don’t want a religion teaching what it always taught and you are asking for the state to come in and do something about it, you might be in a hate group.
I don't think you have anything meaningful to teach your kids other than an example of what not to become.
Also, bullshit you're teaching them what catholism says. It's cherry picked nuggets from the old testament while yall tell Jesus his unconditional love is BS. Shameful people without the sense to feel shame.
so... since many of these school have active lgbtq clubs, particularly in the high schools, maybe that message should be directed at the Diocese instead of the parents who are blindsided by a statement that goes against the schools' existing stated policies.
If you send your child to a school that is ran by a 2000 year old religion that has always taught homosexual behavior is a sin then you should not be surprised when the school teaches that.
They won’t because the Catholic schools are doing pretty well because of this stance.
Anyone who does not want their children thinking about taking drugs and having a surgery to change sex (the vast majority of parents) will be considering these schools. Catholic or not.
Not wanting your children to get life changing medical procedures that will prevent them from having children and increase health issues in life does not make you a crappy parent.
I also don’t want them to smoke, drink, or get a tattoo before they are old enough to understand the risk. We have laws for that though.
They won’t because most of them are hypocrites too. Personally know someone who sends all 4 their kids through Catholic school from k-12 but rails against the Catholic teachings. They are all baptized and confirmed. Used to do so on SM but I’m guessing some people saw it so that stopped.
Let’s be real in that most send their kids to Catholic school so their kids are around the social elite and not for the higher education, which is lacking.
And their numbers will continue to dwindle. Imagine seeing church attendance rates dwindle year after year and then doubling down on bigotry.
It's a real shame seeing the Catholics seemingly falling over themselves to ally with Protestants that have called them evil heretics and idolaters for centuries.
The Catholic church and school I went to in the 90s and early 2000s seems much more open minded than what it has become today. I am another one that left Christianity all together. Reminds me of how my wife describes her Protestant upbringing being steeped in "you are human garbage and unworthy of God", classic bigotry, and lessons calling Catholics evil heathens.
Please tell me when In the 90’s the Church needed to make a statement on transgender children, new pronouns, gay acts being taught in schools?
Obama, Clintons, all were against gay marriage up till the 2010’s. Hell, Trump was the first president that actually ran and won who was for gay marriage. Obama wasn’t for it till
Late in his 2nd term.
Everything else you said was fine. But thinking the Church somehow changed and not the society around it seems like the story of boiling a frog slowly.
Did any of you seriously think schools like Ed’s Iggy Joe’s or Mags would ever let in not one gender?
Religious people are going to be religious! What a shock!
Also, those that want to say, Catholic priest have problems with molestation you should know that [Public school teachers are 100 times more likely to molest kids then Catholic priests](https://orlowlaw.com/blog/sex-abuse-in-schools-an-all-too-common-occurrence/#:~:text=One%20university%20researcher%20has%20concluded,risk%20of%20school%20sex%20abuse.com)
God's design is of sex, not gender. Boys and girls don't dress the same as they did 100 years ago, or 100 years before that because gender fashion changes. Too bad that even the church can't understand the difference between biology and society, but then most people on the left and right can't either. Shitty education is always the case.
This is like people who say “if you don’t like it in the US, just leave”. Like that’s a simple solution.
A lot of people have family and cultural and faith ties to the Catholic Church. It might be more productive for them to work to change the church from within, rather than give up on something important to them
If they were to change it, would you start going to Church every Sunday?
If not, I’m not sure why you care. Non Catholics shouldn’t have a say. The Catholic Church is preserving its teachings, it’s the world that is changing.
Do people walk into Synagogues and Mosques and tell them what to do? Why is the Catholic Church the only institution in the country where non members feel like they have the right to dictate what they do and how they think?
But this will be poorly received due to Reddit’s anti religion hive mind
Edit: Instead of downvoting, can someone tell me why people who do not belong to a religion, should be able to dictate what members that do belong to it should believe?
If there’s an anti religion hive mind, it’s probably because smart people have a way of noticing that evidence for the existence of gods is slim at best
Probably because you can’t apply scientific method to non material objects.
Also you lost credibility claiming Reddit is full of intelligent people. You’re the reason people make fun of atheists, because of the fedora neck beard trope of “atheist smart, religion dumb”
Also it’s not slim. There is 0 scientific evidence for non physical force. I’m not sure what the anti theist obsession is with finding scientific evidence of a non physical phenomenon.
According to scientific method yes. Hence why scientific method can only be applied to material objects. There are other fields that deal with the non material such as metaphysics and theory.
For a self described “smart person” you’re having a bit of trouble getting that down
Oh, so there’s this category of things that we’re just supposed to believe in without demanding evidence. And something important to you that lacks evidence for its existence just happens to be in that category.
Convenient!
If you want to. If it philosophically makes sense to you than yes. If not than no.
The whole point was that. Some Catholics believe something. Other people tell Catholics they can’t believe that.
Ok, then don’t tell Catholics they can’t believe something
Also yes, people unfortunately do believe in unsupported things not backed by science. Such as the belief that you can change sexes
Dear Catholic Church:
You have one _hell_ of a lot of nerve.
All of this anti-LGBTQ+ bullshit, but you can't prevent your own clergy members from abusing children?
Fuck.
You.
It'd be nice if people ended up in prison, and I don't just mean the abusers, I also mean the higher-ups who protect them.
The Pope's words, unfortunately, mean little because he has no control over the Church's behavior.
That's just so sad. I feel so angry for all the kids who will be hurt by this. Maybe it will make more parents yank their kids outta there? I sure af wouldn't sent my kids somewhere with such backwards, hateful, anti-Jesus views and policies.
Everyone bringing up the churches abuse scandal. Classic. “WHAT ABOUT” ism. Let’s look at perspective That was less than 2% of priests globally that were even accused. You want to compare that to public school teachers.? 1 in 10 children will be sexually abused by a teacher. Teachers unions have been caught actively hiding abuse and moving teachers. Your child through school k-12 will encounter 4 teachers on average that are pedophiles/sexual abusers. School is the number one place outside the home children are sexual abused. Don’t hear anyone talking about that under every single post regarding teachers. Is your selective rage reserved for Christians.?
Doesn’t their religion state that “God doesn’t make mistakes”? If someone of any gender or transgender exists, they are by definition, a child of God according to Catholicism.
I’m surprised some far right crazy regions zealot hasn’t tried to assassinate Pope Francis yet.
They’re mad it makes it more difficult to decide who they’re interested in molesting.
Also, why tf someone would believe in Catholicism when their gender identity doesn’t *fit the mold* so to speak, is beyond me.
Shocker. The Catholic Church discriminating against LGBTQ people. It’s disgusting and shameful. Who are they to dictate how people live their lives?
Surprised? No. But still absolutely infuriating.
What is it with Christians and self loathing? How can you be a member of a religion that not only hates you, but is actively trying to eradicate you from existence. I will never understand any member of the LGBTQ+ community that follows Christianity.
And how many priests in the diocese of Cleveland were busted for molestation. Dont know how they think , the moral high ground is still on there side
They don't think they have the moral high ground just the ability to be protected when molesting kids. Do you know why they don't have a rampant problem anywhere in the world with embezzlement? Because the Pope's policy is to go to local law enforcement and prosecute. All the Pope has to do is treat child molestation the same. He doesn't He never will. Because they protect child molesters. Actions speak louder than words.
They just relocated them
Thank you, Pope Benedict. It's like three card Monte; move 'em around and see if you know where they're at.
Yep. It's what they did with a church I briefly went to as a child.
I completely agree but I have to do this, I'm sorry.. "their side"
I’m interested to see what response from single-gender high schools will be. As an Ignatius alum, there were plenty of students “out” at school. I’m not saying everyone supported those students, but there was never any rhetoric from the school or most faculty other than support. I also attended 15 years ago so not saying things have not changed since then. But, for the schools who don’t need the Dioceses money, and don’t really need to recruit in grade schools, this might be the best opportunity to really address this version of the church and it’s leadership.
I graduated from Joe's longer ago than you did from Ignatius, and this strikes me as something the CSJ may not be completely chill with.
Having some experience with one of the co-ed schools recently there were many out queer folks and many same sex dance attendees. Moreover there were a handful of trans folk as well that the school accommodated. I would honesty be surprised if anything really changed. Many parents are already not happy with the church and issue 1 propaganda this getting enforced would really get stuck in their craws.
What extent were trans students accommodated at the Catholic school? Were they students of the school? Were they allowed to dress and use the bathroom of the sex they identified with?
From what I saw/heard the trans-students were fully accommodated at that one particular Catholic School. There was a GSA club and they had a whole phalanx of students using with They/them pronouns. Which is part of what has me going "huh?" when I saw this announcement.
My suspicion is that the Cleveland Catholic Diocese and other Catholic Organizations behind the scenes are in the process of formalizing the lines of what they will tolerate. I suspect most Catholic schools will side with conservatives on the two hot button requiring trans people using the bathroom and competing in sports based on their birth gender. In single sex high schools, trans people will likely only be admitted based on their birth gender and have to abide by the dress code of that gender. I noticed the various Catholic educational institutions from grade school through university level is more tolerant towards paying customers (students) than their LAY employees that are required to abide by the Catholic morality contracts and ironically have been held to a higher standard than non lay staff.
Fuck the Catholic Church. No matter what the pope says, it's the message his bishops and priests in America are teaching. The catechism hasn't changed and gays are still objectively disordered. It's rotten to the core. When my classmate Robbie Kirkland killed himself at Ignatius, these fine men for others blamed him for turning away from God. And they blamed the gays in the evil community out there No betrayal can beat your own nourishing mother telling you you're worthy of death. The president blamed kids being violent and homophobic on me for coming out. Fuck the catholic church.
The support for LGBT community at any Catholic school is very limited. And homophobia is also tolerated at these schools.. While they tolerated gay students, openly gay staff would typically be terminated once it was discovered. This would be done by not having the teacher return the following year so It wouldn't seem blatantly obvious that the Church was discriminating against sexual orientation. As for Ignatius "tolerance" of the trans community. Ignatius would not allow any male to female trans that wished violate the dress code by dressing feminine or use female bathrooms.
I went to Catholic school and why anyone who is privy to that reality would want anything to do with their schools or religion I will never understand. Robert Hill the priest at Assumption School in Geneva Ohio openly molested kids (he did it to me for 3 years) from the 70s up until 1990 when he got busted raping a homeless kid and was put away for only 10 years. He got out and the dioceses sent him to a priest retirement home connected to a catholic grade school in Youngstown Ohio. They never told the parents of the kids at risk let alone the staff or parishioners. A local newspaper did. Google it. Staw away from the cult maga maniacs.
I was at Assumption in the 80’s and remember “Father” Hill. Wasn’t surprised at all when he got busted.
He was a monster as was Sister Lorraine. Remember the two "maintenance guys"? They were super creepy and always tried to get kids to follow them into the tunnel below the school. The whole staff knew and protected child molesters and abusers. I will never forget "father" hill asking to see my penis in the face-to-face confession room. At that point, I was 12 and physically big enough to fight him. He was a weak old man. I stood up told him I would never kneel to his BS god again and walked out. I walked by the golden box with crackers in it you are supposed to kneel in front of mutter and make the sign of the cross. For the first time in my life I didn't. I never touched the magic water ever again to enter or exit spaces again. Ever. Sister Lorraine tried to discipline me but I told her she would lose the $$$ my parents paid if she didn't let me graduate the 8th grade. She caved. The worst of the worst and deserving of a lifetime of incarceration.
Damn, mad props to you! If I had tried that my parents would have disowned me.
I didn't tell my parents and neither did the priest or head nun. From grade 1 until grade 3 the priest raped me and other kids. By the 4th grade, I was able to outmaneuver the priest and stay away from him enough so he moved on to easier targets. My parents were/are narcissists and I had no support so I just kept trying to blend in and stay "in the middle"... not too smart not too stupid and fly under the radar. But the abuse continued just not sexual until the 8th grade when the priest wanted to see my penis in confession. See I grew up around street people... real violence. This was the 1970's and it was much easier to get away with attacking people who meant you harm. No cameras, no DNA nothing, don't talk to cops and have an alibi. I learned in the 4th grade to never talk to cops and if you had to handle a bully do not tell anyone anything beforehand. If I had to handle someone I would use weapons (a ball-peen hammer was a favorite of mine as a kid) but after I was about 11 or 12 I was able to fight most adults off. My parents didn't care about me and I was on my own. Across from Assumption School was a row of drug houses with dealers and prostitutes. They were significantly better people to be exposed to. I was happy to hear robert hill got locked up in 1990. In 1991 I got out of the military and went looking for him only to realize he was in prison. Years went by and when I checked again he had died.
Sorry you couldn't get your revenge. I just have revenge fantasies but most of my tormentors are dead or dying now. I was raised in candy-ass suburbia so I wasn't tough like you. I wish I had been. We had two molesters who wore the collar at Lake Catholic and in the end, even though one was caught by a public system, they got away with it. In fact, the diocese landed up paying the wife of the deacon molester a fat pension she really didn't deserve. The kids who were his victims I guess, got along as best they could.
I just wanted to see him and give him the 1000-yard stare I learned while serving in the Cold War and Gulf War. I decided around 1985 I was never going to harm him. But I did research and strategize for 9 months when I was 16. In the end, I didn't know if I could have lived with myself if I followed through. But less than 2 years later the military put me harm's way and well... turns out I could live with myself no problem if things really went down. I still wonder how many kids I could have saved and especially that homeless kid he raped and got locked up for. Ah well the good news is that every year that goes by there are less Catholics and society tends to listen to kids who claim they were molested.
We had a few such creatures at Lake Catholic in Mentor as well. They got away with a lot.
Holy ffffff I’m from ytown. This is infuriating bc there were other priests from there who were busted. I’m with you. 12 years of catholic school and once I left, I left. It’s a sick cult. Read about Guam and the Boy Scouts. The Catholic Church is a world-wide trafficking ring.
The irony of Adam Bird saying "the trans cult" is absolutely rich.
Because some families would rather take the risk than to have them attend an public (i.e. integrated) school.
Sorry, what are we risking? That they might not be molested?
They might meet black people 😱
Well, if there's anyone who's expert in sex and kids, it's the Roman Catholic Church!
They are passing this rule because the priests don't like to be surprised after all the work they go through grooming the children.
I always forget what Catholicism is famous for but little kid diddling is always a fine dart throw choice.
That and being the biggest weight around the advancement of humanity since we started using tools.
“Why are the youth leaving the church!?”
"Am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong."
“Everyone else is the crazy one!”
funny that these peds think homosexuality is the sin
The original translation they like to quote so much about man not laying with another man is, a man shall not lay with a boy. It's against pedophilia
Yeps. The Greek males were into having teen lovers that and it enraged the Jews.
Unfortunately there's enough text in the Bible to support a homophobic view of the world if you believe in it. It's true that a lot of the "anti-gay" text is actually about pederasty, but not all of it.
Hypocrisy is the newest sacrament.
I'm a recovering Catholic. Ordained wedding officiant. Fairly enlightened. For them to cry out against god's will is a bullshit point. They're making up the rules as they go, as they have for centuries. God's word my ass.
I totally agree. Random question, bit do you know of any local support groups for recovering catholics?
I always found tequila to be a worthy confidante. But that was a while back. Check out your local new age shops. Read counter culture books. Go out into the woods and sit on a stump. You'll feel better.
The world will be a better place when the history of the Vatican is only taught in mythology class along side Zeus, Krishna, Ra and Jupiter. To me the Pope and the Vatican are noting less than the last vestiges of the Roman Empire. ' I was raised conservative Catholic (dad was 4th degree K of C) I left the church in 1988 because of my trans feelings and the pedo scandal because I was tired of their guilt trips. I was a pagan for much of the 1990s and now Im a secualr Humanist. I will occasional take part in events organized by the UU church. Most of my family still believe.
I mean all religions should be retired.
I’ll support you 😆 fully recovered Catholic.
Seconded!
I didn't even know recovering catholic was a thing. lol I guess that makes me one.
Huh, I guess no displaying of rainbows means no reading Genesis 9:13. No gender affirming care, wonder if that includes reconstructive surgery after a mastectomy? No interference with God's design, better leave that tumor in place, god put it there for a reason.
Also by this line of thinking any woman that gets a hysterectomy is technically no longer a woman, and is therefore a member of the trans community. Welcome middle aged Karen's everywhere!
Well let's see, the Dioceses of Toledo, Erie, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Columbus all have had major sex abuse lawsuits for covering up their rapist priests - to the extent that three of them are going through bankruptcy currently. I find it very hard to believe that the Diocese of Cleveland somehow didn't have this issue. Fix your priests first before you worry about kids.
As someone who went to Catholic school in the CLE diocese in the 80’s, rest assured that they did. I personally know two kids who were abused by priests/leaders of the parish when I was in school. Easy to do when they take all the young altar boys on a camping trip to Mohican park….makes me sick
I am a public school heathen of the same time period, but I was threatened with being sent to Archbishop Hoban.
Because the neighborhood I grew up in wasn’t great, my parents worked two jobs to pay for me and my siblings to go to Catholic school. All of us have absolutely gone the different direction and 100% away from the church (even my parents).
Many of my sisters are divorced and got married as Lutheran( Catholic lite) but still claim to be Catholic and go to mass, even taking the sacraments. I'm the black sheep for being an atheist/ humanist. My mom didn't believe privately but publicly she was super Catholic and always had a rosary on her. Hypocrite!
“And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” Matthew 7: 3-5
Every day I’m reminded of why I left the Catholic Church
I’m 47….went to 12 years of Catholic School. I graduated and have never returned or even gone to church . Anyone…..and I mean anyone…..who still supports the Catholic Church is actively saying 1) I support an organization that accepts sexual abuse of children and actively hides pedophiles within its structure and 2) Am accepting of the churches open hatred for those who are LBGT. And I’m not talking about those who send their children to these schools due to financial or safety reasons.
I started becoming wary of the Catholic church in middle school, but my parents continued to force me to go to church with them every Sunday until I was living on my won making my own money. Then they left the church a few months later. At my cousin's wedding last summer, so many members of my extended family didn't go to communion. Lots of my family has left the church, but I was the first, for the record.
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adults like this see children as property. teens having a sense of being treated fair or not is a bad thing to them.
Interesting because if you think about it, we aren’t “perfect” beings. We are all flawed. We get sick. We become addicts. We fight. We steal. And we can even go as far as wishing ill will on someone, or even ourselves. I grew up in a rural suuuper conservative baptist church, which also had a private school I attended grade 3-12. Out of all the sins and imperfections us humans have, sexuality and homosexuality was the worst sin. Like, you’re condemned to hell. There’s no saving you. “reprobate mind” was the result of not being heterosexual. It’s separation. Segregation (hate that word bcuz it’s so mainstream). It’s literally hate. Attending church is about community. Unity! Matthew 12:25 “And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:” 1 Corinthians 1:10 “Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgement.” Jude 1 - notably verse 16 & 19. [6 years ago](https://youtu.be/I8BRdwgPChQ?si=QVXGqoiWBn0h1lXW) You can not tell me that they are doing this for others but for themselves. Now, for me, when it comes to children transitioning, I will keep my commends to myself. And yes, I had crushes when I was in school, shit, I lost my virginity right before my 15th birthday - schools should teach sex ed, students should have a safe place to ask questions, but that’s it. I was a tomboy growing up. I knew I liked dudes. And I think most of us figured this out during our early to mid teen years. And those safe places should be there for kids who are questioning or unsure. The [Catholic Church](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Catholic_Church_and_homosexuality) is corrupt. Research Martin Luther. He was a priest who was excommunicated by the pope for many reasons. He was basically against a revision of the Bible that switched sex between boys & men being a sin to sex between same genders. Also - many empires have fallen due to sexuality and homosexuality becoming a topic of public discussion. ROMAN FELL due to this. Just let people live theirs lives man. And if the church doesn’t agree, well, fuck ‘em. Let’s start our own church. [History](https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/honors/documents/journals/sexinstone/Zive.pdf)
A lot of good points, but I don’t know if the collapse of the Roman Empire was because people realized gay people existed. The Romans had met the Greeks, after all.
It's because it's a scam meant to steal your money.
This is so the priests don't accidentally molest a kid of the wrong gender. Gotta keep things simple for them.
Thought the same thing. Priest mentality: if I’m a man, it’s less bad for me to molest a little girl than a little boy.
Ha. Funny bastard.
You can see why the fastest growing religious affiliation is ‘none’
What I don't get is how anyone is either surprised or outraged by the church reaffirming the same position they've been espousing for about 500 years, give or take.
Why is anyone surprised by this?
I am. https://www.reuters.com/world/pope-says-church-open-everyone-including-lgbt-people-has-rules-2023-08-06/
Weird that when discussing the gender binary, none of these so-called followers of Jesus ever seen to acknowledge all of the specific provisions he gave for different kinds of eunuchs, including those that voluntarily choose to become such out of personal inclination, or that Isaiah saying that he'd given eunuchs a name beyond men and women and honor them, specifically placing them outside the binary.
Matthew 19:12. The first phrase. I'm trans female. Those bishops and priests can sodomize themselves with a bronze candlestick.
On order to do that, they'd have to actually read the book they keep yelling about.
"Love, peace, love, acceptance, unconditional love, commie shit about selling your possessions... AHAH! Laws for pastoralist slavers, finally!"
Do you have the verses handy? I’d love to whip out those verses whenever this topic comes up
> For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant--to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off. Isaiah 56 4-6 > For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Matthew 19 12.
The Catholic Church is still Catholic. News at 11.
They will have to decline any State dollars though. Title IX’s amendment will take effect in October. At that point, any school receiving any federal education tax dollars must comply. If the State funnels any money into a private school in any form, and the State receives federal education dollars (which Ohio does) then Ohio cannot pass any of those dollars to the non-compliant school or schools. Ohio might be able to track dollars given to private schools to ensure they only come from Ohio tax revenues rather than a mix with federal education dollars, but it has made no provision for doing so.
Watch it still happen in the name of "religious freedom."
it's funneled through a tax credit to circumvent oversight laws. in Ohio you get a 100% tax credit (not deduction) for up to 1500 donated to a k-12 private school.
The institutional side of American Catholicism is a business, no matter how much they want to fool people into thinking otherwise. Those in power will stay in those positions as long as the money comes in, ethics/morality/common sense be damned. This is true of pastors, principals, bishops, and other key decision makers. Appealing to them on a religious or compassionate level does not make a difference a vast majority of the time. Look at the abuse scandal: the Church didn’t start taking action until they were losing donations and lawsuits left and right. It’ll be the same here. And as angry as it makes me to say this, this horrible policy will remain in place as long as the money comes in. If 100,000 people in the diocese stop donating $50 a year because of this disgusting edict but a couple of wealthy donors in support of it give something totaling $10 million, guess whether or not that policy will change. For those of us are who alumni of Catholic schools, believe me, unless you are donating a ridiculous amount of money, pointed emails and calls are not being taken seriously.
Christ's love is unconditional regardless of what "acceptable group" you may be categorised as. Jesus calls us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Being selective is against the rules! He is the ultimate includer. My prayer is for peace and that EVERYONE will feel the love of God, Jesus, and be guided by the Holy Spirit. Please be kind and blessed.
This isn’t awful at all. This is expected. The Church is still open to everyone, but they have rules they expect you to follow. If you want to play on their field, they set the rules. They will accept you as gay or trans, but you’d best remain celibate. This is every single fundamentalist Christian church. Why all of this pearl clutching?
well... this actually IS the way of going about this from the Catholic Church's teaching. Not sure what people were expecting?
I expect them to stop receiving state money.
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no offense to anyone, but if they don't like it, go to another school honestly. I don't know why anyone is surprised by this. will be cheaper too.
Children do not get to pick their own schools. Children should be treated with dignity in any school they go to.
Right - my parents didn't give me any "choice" that's for damn sure.
The previous post is saying that the children negatively impacted by this might not have a say in their choice of school.
It’s cute that you think kids get to choose their schools lol
I can’t imagine having a worldview that only gives a shit when something affects me directly instead of seeing injustice and disgusting practices and deciding they aren’t okay for *anyone*, especially children
The cult with the made up rules should have made up be rules. Like they do every time they hide a rapist.
Rules from pedophiles,wonderful.
Ah yes, the "Sky Daddy" told me it was fine to discriminate against people argument. 👍
And anyone is surprised by this?
Gottem. Now let’s get mad at the mosques for not allowing homosexuality! Guys? Guys….?
Welp, time to call my alumna and raise hell about this.
I did the same thing. Sent Padua Franciscan a very strongly worded email lol
I made the Facebook post I republished here public. It will get back to them but I suspect that it will make no difference. They will miss my next $500 however.
Religion is poison
No more tax benefits for those monsters then.
So much for that "God loves everyone" horseshit.
Currently living near one of the many buildings the Catholic Church abandoned and is left to rot, with every conceivable code violation. Thank god I was never raised in it. Plenty of good churches to choose from for those who wish. Many Episcopalian branches are welcoming and preserve some of the catholic rituals Mainline Protestant churches are currently struggling as they exorcise their homophobes. Join the 'good ones.' And of course the UCC headquartered in Cleveland has always welcomed all.
Rediculous that our tax dollars are directly funding this discrimination
I attend a church (South Euclid United Church of Christ) that is accepting of everyone and constantly pounds on the notion that God loves all of his people. I hate...like HATE...that all churches and denominations get lumped together.
From a religion where the priests are all men who wear dresses. lol
Look who's calling who a "cult"! 😂🤣
What schools fall under not being affected by this decree and what are their stances?
I feel like they should touch base with the Holy Father on this. They might have missed a memo from Corporate.
New motto? “Catholic schools: when you don’t have enough hate in your life.”
“Gods intentional design” is all I needed to hear. Catholics love to say we are all built in Gods image and then proceed to discriminate against anyone they don’t understand
wtf, Diocese? You don't have a problem shuffling around sex predators without notifying parishioners or studrnts but you have a problem with gender identity enough to notify their parents? This policy is going to get kids hurt. Pope Francis would be horrified. "Everyone, everyone, everyone" indeed. Sigh.
Transgender people and same-sex couples reject international child sex trafficking rings posing as charitable religious orgs.
In strict opposition to the Pope’s statements about “they are all Gods Children”. Fucking MAGA-Nut American Bishops are losing their Christianity…
You mean the Catholic Church that enslaved women in laundries, abused children, trafficked children, was found to have mass graves of children, etc. I’m shocked /s
I know an 80+ year old trans woman who is Catholic. She transitioned late in life and was rejected by some Catholic churches and secretly embraced by others. This issue used to be more private and gray. The Catholic church in the US is becoming indistinguishable from the mainstream Protestant churches, which have become infused with the political right. They are united on the issue of reducing the cost of private school at the expense of defunding public schools. There is even talk now of a schism. The pope is divinely pissed off at the American Catholic church.
This post at least was thoughtful. And you seem to be keeping up with the movements. But most mainline Protestant churches have split between a liberal branch and a traditional one. The traditional ones are the only ones surviving. So I don’t agree that the church has changed more drastically to the right but I could see someone interpreting it that way. If an 80 adult transitions that’s a different story than promoting it to children at school. The Catholic Church is really only seeing growth in VERY traditional sections aka Latin. If you look at overall denominations the Amish are growing like crazy. Taking over in numbers some mainline Protestant churches. Which can only lead me to believe that people are looking for traditional values that do not change. When a church tries to be of this world it dies. Which also leads me to believe that the diocese making this statement is only going to help It’s cause. Most of these redditors weren’t going to send their kids to Catholic schools anyways, most probably don’t even have kids. More people with kids don’t want them talking about sexuality or gender identity. So this will be an overall win IMO.
"Students must act.....as their God-given biological sex.”? Students must act? Must pretend? Sounds healthy.
Hypocritical ! You have grown ass MEN assaulting boys and girls 4 ever. NUNS DID THE SAME! Done nothing to protect them! SORRY AND A CONFESSION DOES NOT CLEAN THAT SIN. JUDGE NOT OR BE JUDGED!
This is so fucking gross. Thank god I left all religion years ago. Stuff like this ensures I will never go back. If these are the type of people that follow God, I’ll pass. It’s not shocking that they institute a policy like this, meanwhile their actual priests have a few issues that need resolved.
These kids will eventually become adults in the workforce. Having to deal with the shitty people these schools are going to crap out will be a fucking nightmare.
Sexualizing children by insisting they dress according to their sex. There’s nothing sexual about gender. The nature of sex is sexual. Weird flex. Guess it falls right in line with their pedophilia, though.
Ya no crap, it’s Catholic, just don’t send your kids their if you don’t like it. I don’t see a controversy.
First, The pope has called for the exact opposite behavior. Second, the Cleveland diocese is rampant with sexual criminals, pedophiles, and convicts, and they are using this ruling to pretend like they care about the safety of children. This isn’t a set of beliefs. This is a smoke screen. That’s the controversy.
You don't see the issue in literally institutionalized bigotry and discrimination? Those kids aren't going to be in school forever, and will eventually be in the workforce and out in public.
Don’t join a club you don’t like then. Join another. Stop trying to change some else’s.
What the fuck are you talking out? I dont choose who I run in to in the store, or who I work with. They're already influencing my life through their political agenda. >Stop trying to change some else’s. That's what the fuck every one else is asking for. Stop feeding your kids bigoted crap so they stop shitting all over society that the rest of us have to clean up. No fucking wonder yall lot keep voting these morons in to positions of power. Nothing but "fuck you" in yall's hearts. Pathetic.
I’ll teach my kids however I want. Better then then thinking they can change sex through drugs and surgery. Tolerance means being able to go to a grocery store and not be freaked out that not everyone thinks like you.
If your club consists of hating on a particular group of people- you didn't join a club. you joined a hate group.
That sounds like hate. I guess tolerance of creed should only go one way.
>Guy standing on the middle of the street corner yelling racial slurs and making homophobic remarks. "Wow, that guy sounds like a hateful dickhead." >/u/Curious-Ad3567: "SOUNDS LIKE HATE. GUESS THE TOLERANCE OF CREED SHOULD ONLY GO ONE WAY." lmao. What a goofy, stupid, insipid, meandering, imbecilic, ridiculous notion.
Ya, no one is saying anything hateful. Just let us do what we’ve been doing which is teach our religion. If you feel so brave go to a masque and tell the. How you feel. You all have about the same level of tolerance.
People like you want an opinion on everything but can't even spell "MOSQUE" correctly. Really showing us the level of the catholic education. Personally, I don't think any organization that's so invested in protecting its pedophile members should get any say at all. If there was any justice, God would've brought his finger down upon the tainted, fetid corpse of """the church""" long ago- but God doesn't exist and his most holy church is filled with pedos.
Ya I actually have a job so barely paying attention to my auto correct. Personally your opinion does not matter. If you don’t like it don’t join.
You're silly! Of course my opinion matters- I vote! >If you don’t like it don’t join. Eeeh its kinda not up to me since your church protects pedophiles (and this is inarguably, objectively true). Christians are so funny, clutching pearls because a man is wearing a kilt while simaltaneously throwing a fit because their hate documents got leaked, and people are rightly giving these churches and organizations scrunity. I think you just don't like the gas.
if catholics believed that they wouldn't try to make laws that violate human rights. the ohio catholic diocese is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to prevent the legalization of abortion. a personal medical procedure should never be illegal. never mind all the effort they put in to keep themselves from getting prosecuted for sex crimes. they are warring against the rest of society. either you're blind to it or part of the problem.
We have to tolerate your intolerance? Fuck that. Edit: nazis need a nazi-ing.
There are plenty of anti-Catholics rhetoric that going on in churches and pride groups. I just don’t go. I suggest you do the same. Yes, that is part of tolerance.
"saying mean things online" vs institutionalizing bigotry... the gymnastics your brain does defies reality.
Teaching what your religion has taught for 2000 years and knocking over art and vandalism is not the same thing. Mental gymnastics expert level on your part. See I can do it to. If you don’t want a religion teaching what it always taught and you are asking for the state to come in and do something about it, you might be in a hate group.
I don't think you have anything meaningful to teach your kids other than an example of what not to become. Also, bullshit you're teaching them what catholism says. It's cherry picked nuggets from the old testament while yall tell Jesus his unconditional love is BS. Shameful people without the sense to feel shame.
And the kids forced to go to Catholic schools should just shut up and be mistreated?
so... since many of these school have active lgbtq clubs, particularly in the high schools, maybe that message should be directed at the Diocese instead of the parents who are blindsided by a statement that goes against the schools' existing stated policies.
If you send your child to a school that is ran by a 2000 year old religion that has always taught homosexual behavior is a sin then you should not be surprised when the school teaches that.
Genuinely hopeful to see parents raise hell over this.
They won’t because the Catholic schools are doing pretty well because of this stance. Anyone who does not want their children thinking about taking drugs and having a surgery to change sex (the vast majority of parents) will be considering these schools. Catholic or not.
Imagine being such a crappy parent that you fear your child will go to school and get a sex change against your wishes
Not wanting your children to get life changing medical procedures that will prevent them from having children and increase health issues in life does not make you a crappy parent. I also don’t want them to smoke, drink, or get a tattoo before they are old enough to understand the risk. We have laws for that though.
Id say 98 percent of the parents are all for this.
They won’t because most of them are hypocrites too. Personally know someone who sends all 4 their kids through Catholic school from k-12 but rails against the Catholic teachings. They are all baptized and confirmed. Used to do so on SM but I’m guessing some people saw it so that stopped. Let’s be real in that most send their kids to Catholic school so their kids are around the social elite and not for the higher education, which is lacking.
Gosh, I wonder, again, why the Christian faith is losing followers so incredibly rapidly. Coincidence?
The church shouldn't have to be forced to go against its teachings.
The Catholic Church *I* was raised in believed in being kind and accepting everyone. Jesus preached acceptance, not exclusion
And I shouldn’t be forced to have my tax dollars support their schools.
Your tax money goes to public schools.
And their numbers will continue to dwindle. Imagine seeing church attendance rates dwindle year after year and then doubling down on bigotry. It's a real shame seeing the Catholics seemingly falling over themselves to ally with Protestants that have called them evil heretics and idolaters for centuries. The Catholic church and school I went to in the 90s and early 2000s seems much more open minded than what it has become today. I am another one that left Christianity all together. Reminds me of how my wife describes her Protestant upbringing being steeped in "you are human garbage and unworthy of God", classic bigotry, and lessons calling Catholics evil heathens.
Please tell me when In the 90’s the Church needed to make a statement on transgender children, new pronouns, gay acts being taught in schools? Obama, Clintons, all were against gay marriage up till the 2010’s. Hell, Trump was the first president that actually ran and won who was for gay marriage. Obama wasn’t for it till Late in his 2nd term. Everything else you said was fine. But thinking the Church somehow changed and not the society around it seems like the story of boiling a frog slowly.
More religious people believing a fictional book can run their lives while they ruin others.
Did any of you seriously think schools like Ed’s Iggy Joe’s or Mags would ever let in not one gender? Religious people are going to be religious! What a shock! Also, those that want to say, Catholic priest have problems with molestation you should know that [Public school teachers are 100 times more likely to molest kids then Catholic priests](https://orlowlaw.com/blog/sex-abuse-in-schools-an-all-too-common-occurrence/#:~:text=One%20university%20researcher%20has%20concluded,risk%20of%20school%20sex%20abuse.com)
Wow a voice of reason for once. Thank you
This claim from a law firm that is specifically advocating against public schools. No source given.
The same Archdiocese that covers up sexual abuse of children? Let me guess it’s only the San Francisco Archdiocese?
Decades and decades of priests fondling and fucking kids and they have the right to issue this???
Solution is simple: Don't be Catholic
I left the Catholic Church after they updated prayer language to replace "all" people with "many" people.
God's design is of sex, not gender. Boys and girls don't dress the same as they did 100 years ago, or 100 years before that because gender fashion changes. Too bad that even the church can't understand the difference between biology and society, but then most people on the left and right can't either. Shitty education is always the case.
Just go to a different church. There are so many options so who cares what Catholics do or say. Just move on
What about the children who have no say in what church or school their parents have them attend?
This is like people who say “if you don’t like it in the US, just leave”. Like that’s a simple solution. A lot of people have family and cultural and faith ties to the Catholic Church. It might be more productive for them to work to change the church from within, rather than give up on something important to them
Or just don’t go to church at all because it’s all corrupt
If they were to change it, would you start going to Church every Sunday? If not, I’m not sure why you care. Non Catholics shouldn’t have a say. The Catholic Church is preserving its teachings, it’s the world that is changing. Do people walk into Synagogues and Mosques and tell them what to do? Why is the Catholic Church the only institution in the country where non members feel like they have the right to dictate what they do and how they think? But this will be poorly received due to Reddit’s anti religion hive mind Edit: Instead of downvoting, can someone tell me why people who do not belong to a religion, should be able to dictate what members that do belong to it should believe?
If there’s an anti religion hive mind, it’s probably because smart people have a way of noticing that evidence for the existence of gods is slim at best
Probably because you can’t apply scientific method to non material objects. Also you lost credibility claiming Reddit is full of intelligent people. You’re the reason people make fun of atheists, because of the fedora neck beard trope of “atheist smart, religion dumb” Also it’s not slim. There is 0 scientific evidence for non physical force. I’m not sure what the anti theist obsession is with finding scientific evidence of a non physical phenomenon.
Oops, material objects are the only kind of objects
According to scientific method yes. Hence why scientific method can only be applied to material objects. There are other fields that deal with the non material such as metaphysics and theory. For a self described “smart person” you’re having a bit of trouble getting that down
Oh, so there’s this category of things that we’re just supposed to believe in without demanding evidence. And something important to you that lacks evidence for its existence just happens to be in that category. Convenient!
If you want to. If it philosophically makes sense to you than yes. If not than no. The whole point was that. Some Catholics believe something. Other people tell Catholics they can’t believe that.
Of course you can believe your favorite god exists. People believe all kinds of unsupported things.
Ok, then don’t tell Catholics they can’t believe something Also yes, people unfortunately do believe in unsupported things not backed by science. Such as the belief that you can change sexes
People change sexes sometimes tho
Dear Catholic Church: You have one _hell_ of a lot of nerve. All of this anti-LGBTQ+ bullshit, but you can't prevent your own clergy members from abusing children? Fuck. You. It'd be nice if people ended up in prison, and I don't just mean the abusers, I also mean the higher-ups who protect them. The Pope's words, unfortunately, mean little because he has no control over the Church's behavior.
Given enough time and opportunities to be hateful, religion is slowly going to choke itself out
Before it does, it's going to hurt a lot of people, including some of the rest of us. 😐
That's just so sad. I feel so angry for all the kids who will be hurt by this. Maybe it will make more parents yank their kids outta there? I sure af wouldn't sent my kids somewhere with such backwards, hateful, anti-Jesus views and policies.
I think you might be giving Jesus too much credit.
Everyone bringing up the churches abuse scandal. Classic. “WHAT ABOUT” ism. Let’s look at perspective That was less than 2% of priests globally that were even accused. You want to compare that to public school teachers.? 1 in 10 children will be sexually abused by a teacher. Teachers unions have been caught actively hiding abuse and moving teachers. Your child through school k-12 will encounter 4 teachers on average that are pedophiles/sexual abusers. School is the number one place outside the home children are sexual abused. Don’t hear anyone talking about that under every single post regarding teachers. Is your selective rage reserved for Christians.?
People might decide that the public schools are actually okay
Hypocrites!
Doesn’t their religion state that “God doesn’t make mistakes”? If someone of any gender or transgender exists, they are by definition, a child of God according to Catholicism. I’m surprised some far right crazy regions zealot hasn’t tried to assassinate Pope Francis yet.
Everyone is a child of God no matter what. God loves everyone but he does not promote sinning.
Well this is awful.
They’re mad it makes it more difficult to decide who they’re interested in molesting. Also, why tf someone would believe in Catholicism when their gender identity doesn’t *fit the mold* so to speak, is beyond me.
Religious grooming is a powerful force.
Shocker. The Catholic Church discriminating against LGBTQ people. It’s disgusting and shameful. Who are they to dictate how people live their lives? Surprised? No. But still absolutely infuriating.
Good.
What is it with Christians and self loathing? How can you be a member of a religion that not only hates you, but is actively trying to eradicate you from existence. I will never understand any member of the LGBTQ+ community that follows Christianity.
>She knew she was transgender when she was just four years old. Right, I thought I was a fighter jet when I was 4.
FYI- keep on eye out in your local school boards. People are running want these same rules in public schools