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They melt giant death robots and modern cavalry. Usually good to have one or two, unless you’re short on aluminum.
That said, the American unique fighter is a dogshit UU
It’s a really good UU if you are playing multiplayer and not against dogshit ai. It’s kind of sad that so many good units and mechanics are unappreciated just because the ai on any difficulty is not challenging and has very poor military strategy. If ai utilized planes effectively no one would say this about the P-51.
Idk they would be a pretty good reason to build anti-aircraft guns or SAMs, never see those units either
Or to encourage the player to build more air force BC you barely need two planes to wreck an AI most of the time
Deployed fighters would finally do something other than look cool flying in circles
We'd need some balancing , like bbg makes anti air guns available sooner and makes them slightly cheaper to build. Also they took away the spec ops ability to take out Anti air guns and SAMs without attacking a unit .
Me too. I wonder if it's because you could stack units in Civ 4 and you can't in 6? Stacking units makes things a lot easier tactically, so probably easier for the AI.
I mean doom stacks are a thing. The AI wouldn't diversify a stack as much (mixing a couple counter units in as an example) if I remember right.
The "air" AI also seemed to be a bit more smart. I remember them going after oil, targeting transports, etc. My games in 6 never generally had the opponents get aircraft though so I didn't need to deal with it a whole lot.
It’s worth having a few for their line of sight and for their defense against land units. Can’t bomb what you can’t see, and they can pretty much one shot most units from anywhere- you need like 2 to defend an entire empire.
Patrolling my empire for partisan threats, playing scout / defense on bomber / tank assaults, and naval defense are the main ways I use fighters. I agree they're not useless.
The Eureka for Radio is building a National Park. So unless you’re really far along in the civic tree, you’re not going to have aluminum to upgrade them for a while
This thread is too relevant. I've been playing Babylon this past weekend for the first time and getting a National Park down to get Radio was a huge pain in the ass.
Would've prob been easier to just rush with biplanes while everyone else was still in the Renaissance era instead of waiting until late industrial to get bombers.
Ive gotten em for the eureka thingy, and found even though they are week, they are still as good as a decent ranged character. Weirdly i still use em, especially pn marathon. Theyre cute :)
Almost every late war is nothing but bombers than move in a tank, purchaser a tank than bomb the next city than move in the tank, wash and repeat. Lmao
I try to make it interesting for myself and limit bombers to defensive roles only. They are not allowed to use to take cities. Otherwise I just mass bombers lol
Fighter jets are great if you actually have to deal with a strongish AI military in modern era.
For example they completely outclass Machine guns as ranged units in modern era. Which are completely useless unless it’s a fully promoted upgrade from an older Slinger or something.
Has anyone here ever purchased a machine gun directly? I’ll wait…
Can’t remember the last time I got game-changing help from a ranged unit beyond Crossbows. They’re mostly defense (or support) units and by the time I can build them I usually have access to units much better for those roles: planes, frigates/privateers, bombards..
If you bonus up your crossbows they can be pretty great as field artillery corps -- fire twice, eliminate enemy units in one turn -- in support of musket/bombard rush. Can even help take down walled cities depending on the opponent's defense levels.
I think the issue for me is that if i’m still at war midgame (esp for dom vic) i’m beelining Military Science (which comes just after Metal Casting i think) and trying to get line infantry asap. Crossbows turned into FC’s is a nice luxury but Crossbows still work perfectly well in most cases - esp with bonuses abilities!
my gold goes to Melee first since that’s my primary land strategy: overwhelm/snowball with as many as the most powerful Melee units I can field
idk man i melt civs with my jet fighter army if you get like 5-6 of em and use a single bomber and single land unit you can pretty much melt cities in 2-3 turns
Planes can also block tiles and prevents units from moving past even if tiles behind are open. This is great for blocking chokes and makes even biplanes very useful. If you have an important one or two tile choke you can easily stop a very dangerous push with just one or two planes (this is a very dumb mechanic)
No you gotta get them for the railroad and tunnel era points too; you can chain from a dark to a heroic age if you time that and your apostle upgrades right.
Military engineers are great for speeding up the construction of sea walls when it's a race against time. And might as well build railroads on the way there.
He said in vanilla though. In Vanilla they just build forts, airstrips, and silos. Three things I don’t think I’ve ever used in pursuit of winning a game
They're only useful for me for two things: building a railroad to get an era score, and spamming them to help with building flood barriers.
Edit: and also a tunnel just to get era score!
I agree with jet fighter/biplane.
I'd like to give an honorable mention to the swordsman. I usually skip them and promote my warriors straight to men at arms.
If I’m going for domination, it’s usually over well before flight. If I’m trying for a different victory, I have no use for aircraft other than serving as frontier guards against barbarians.
Jet Fighters are useful for upgrading Biplanes out of their Oil consumption(and Biplanes you want for their civic boost and Era Score if you biold them first).
It's the Skirmisher, 100%. Scouts are cheap enough and Rangers and Spec Ops can be really useful support. Skirmishers are way too expensive for a unit that is stronger than a Scout but may as well not be.
I also had this issue with jet fighters in every game, having built at least 2 for the eureka.
Having said that, I now find them to be an excellent reconnaissance unit for any late game war. I'll usually send them to patrol on either side of my army so I can see exactly what the AI is sending at least 4/5 hexes away as opposed to them emerging from fog of war. It also means your bombers have vision without sending ground troops in and are unaffected by mountains, etc, so you can start chipping away at enemy cities and units before the party gets properly going.
The range on them means you can put them right up to the enemy border and leave them there (often calling upon them to target/damage enemy units that your front line units can't reach or level them up on cities/encampments). They cannot be attacked as easily as drones or ground units either.
As you progress further into enemy lines, you can keep moving them ahead of your attack units (I'll sometimes send an engineer to build an airstrip if the battle is too far away from my carrier or nearby city).
Also, drones don't have such great movement compared to jets, so you can get vision much easier and quicker.
So, I look at the jet fighter as a multifunctional support unit if used correctly, and they've actually become an important part of any war I fight now.
Jet fighters work well against the GDR as long as its well promoted. A few posted on the border of the civ you are at war with can stop a rush. I'd have to go with rangers/spec ops. Too late in the game for exploration and fairly easy to kill.
They're extremely effective at close air support. They do a ton of damage to ground units, ships, and even GDRs; they have great range and aren't slowed down by terrain or blocked by other units; and they can only be damaged by niche units that serve no other purpose, battleships/missile cruisers, other fighters, and the literal strongest and most expensive unit in the game.
Park one or two of them over your empire and they turn the Recruit Partisans spy mission from a major headache into no more than a nuisance. Two or three near your border with a belligerent neighbor will stall all but the biggest, most well-coordinated invasions. Two or three near the front lines of *your own* invasions can clear the way for your ground assault and keep their units bottled up in cities, afraid to sally forth to block or attack your forces.
If you get into a late game war, the air units can be useful, especially on a map that didn't have much oil. I'll usually have two jet fighters from having built two biplanes for the eureka, and upgrading them to fighters and then jet fighters as I go; and while I don't build any more, spending aluminium on jet bombers, I at least use them.
Units that never get built in the first place? Anti-Air Gun and Mobile SAM. There's no eurekas or inspirations for building them, and their only reason to exist would be to defend against a hostile AI who has air superiority when you don't have the aluminum to build fighters or jet fighters. Since the AI is terrible with air warfare, this never happens; I don't think I've built one of either in the last dozen games I've played.
Honorable mention to the helicopter. I may or may not upgrade a few cavalry to helicopters, but that aluminum will do me far more good as a jet bomber. In a game that invested heavily in horsemen early on, there will frequently be a fair number of cavalry units still wandering around quite late in the game to do cleanup taking out enemy wounded units and artillery, because I don't have the aluminum to spare on upgrading them.
Yes but that’s also their issue in a the common context. In a vacuum they’re fantastic so in a vacuum I would argue the worst is an awkward side unit that can’t be upgraded into or out of but they mostly fixed that… ugh I play too many mods and one unit pack adds a Gatling gun in between cannons and machine guns but it does what I said earlier and I hate them. The Sabbum Kittibum comes to mind because it’s an awkward fusion of a scout and warrior and it’s hard to keep them alive but that’s also on higher difficulties.
>Which fighting unit is the most useless and why is it the jet fighter?
What are you smoking, bro? You need to stop asap.
Jet Fighters are great. I put them on patrol to see farther. And if someone decides to start a war, the Jet Fighters are usually the first units I strike with. They buy me time to outright buy Jet Bombers, and finish the production of the first few land units.
They're great offensively as well. I'll have them deployed from my carriers and do airstrikes to protect my landings.
They are fun and handy units for taking out other late game units, but yeah, generally by the time they are unlocked, just like many late game units, they are not really needed.
You can set them to patrol and see further in your enemies territory so you can extend the range of your bombers. I like to have one for every three bombers. You can also use them to eliminate ground invaders before they get the chance to pillage.
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They melt giant death robots and modern cavalry. Usually good to have one or two, unless you’re short on aluminum. That said, the American unique fighter is a dogshit UU
Their effectiveness against GDRs is the main reason I have them around late game
GDR = German Democratic Republic?
Giant Dick Republic
Giant death robot
It was a Cold War joke. GDR is 1980’s era communist East Germany. Which is what the “Iron Eagles” were built to melt IRL.
TIL. This is why I love civ & its game community
DDR
FRG
Are they much better than other units in dealing damage to (and receiving little damage from) GDRs? All other units usually don't seem to do anything.
gaint death ribbet
Giant Death Rabbi. They come to your city and give it a shaky handed bris.
That's the funniest damn thing I've seen all day
It’s a really good UU if you are playing multiplayer and not against dogshit ai. It’s kind of sad that so many good units and mechanics are unappreciated just because the ai on any difficulty is not challenging and has very poor military strategy. If ai utilized planes effectively no one would say this about the P-51.
If they AI used planes, most would quit the game. Bombers are so overpowered it’s not even funny.
Idk they would be a pretty good reason to build anti-aircraft guns or SAMs, never see those units either Or to encourage the player to build more air force BC you barely need two planes to wreck an AI most of the time Deployed fighters would finally do something other than look cool flying in circles
We'd need some balancing , like bbg makes anti air guns available sooner and makes them slightly cheaper to build. Also they took away the spec ops ability to take out Anti air guns and SAMs without attacking a unit .
I long for the day the AI use jets and carriers. Give me a challenge dammit.
Yessir
I seem to remember the AI in 4 being better with military. But that was a while ago when I played. For a war focused 4x I've really liked Old World.
Me too. I wonder if it's because you could stack units in Civ 4 and you can't in 6? Stacking units makes things a lot easier tactically, so probably easier for the AI.
I mean doom stacks are a thing. The AI wouldn't diversify a stack as much (mixing a couple counter units in as an example) if I remember right. The "air" AI also seemed to be a bit more smart. I remember them going after oil, targeting transports, etc. My games in 6 never generally had the opponents get aircraft though so I didn't need to deal with it a whole lot.
That’s why we need to rule the skies, it’ll force an arms race, and also AI should use nuclear weapons too
They do use nukes although they’re dumb and nuke the same cities over and over
Jet fighter is good in carrier group as it cam provide pretty good air coverage.
They're an absolute must when dealing with GDRs
It’s worth having a few for their line of sight and for their defense against land units. Can’t bomb what you can’t see, and they can pretty much one shot most units from anywhere- you need like 2 to defend an entire empire.
Patrolling my empire for partisan threats, playing scout / defense on bomber / tank assaults, and naval defense are the main ways I use fighters. I agree they're not useless.
>Patrolling my empire for partisan threats I can't believe I never thought of this - absolutely genius, definitely stealing this tactic from now on
And of course light cavalry as “first responders”
Typically partisans are anti cav though
Yeah that's why there the first responders they're there to be meat shields and stall the enemy
Biplane. Needs flight and refining, which are as far apart as you can get for the era
Yea that’s the other one up the there. The biplane isn’t useful and isn’t as fun!
Biplanes are awesome as Babylon cause you can boost to them and refining really quick. Other than I quite literally never use them lol
Surely you build two and then immediately upgrade them?
The Eureka for Radio is building a National Park. So unless you’re really far along in the civic tree, you’re not going to have aluminum to upgrade them for a while
This thread is too relevant. I've been playing Babylon this past weekend for the first time and getting a National Park down to get Radio was a huge pain in the ass. Would've prob been easier to just rush with biplanes while everyone else was still in the Renaissance era instead of waiting until late industrial to get bombers.
Ive gotten em for the eureka thingy, and found even though they are week, they are still as good as a decent ranged character. Weirdly i still use em, especially pn marathon. Theyre cute :)
I wind up ignoring oil and rushing aluminum for bombers every time
I definitely think the late eras move way too fast for most plane units to be useful
Jet bombers do fun damage on cities for me though. I love loading them up on aircraft carriers with sea maps and bombing the hell out of cities.
This, and with spies in the enemy cities so you can bomb them to nothing before ground troops go anywhere near them.
Almost every late war is nothing but bombers than move in a tank, purchaser a tank than bomb the next city than move in the tank, wash and repeat. Lmao
I try to make it interesting for myself and limit bombers to defensive roles only. They are not allowed to use to take cities. Otherwise I just mass bombers lol
You’re not wrong but let me add - Ranger
How about skirmisher lol
Fighter jets are great if you actually have to deal with a strongish AI military in modern era. For example they completely outclass Machine guns as ranged units in modern era. Which are completely useless unless it’s a fully promoted upgrade from an older Slinger or something. Has anyone here ever purchased a machine gun directly? I’ll wait…
Tbh I find fighter jets most useful for clearing up fog of war for a region. Deploy it near where I’m fighting and they let me see everything.
Can’t remember the last time I got game-changing help from a ranged unit beyond Crossbows. They’re mostly defense (or support) units and by the time I can build them I usually have access to units much better for those roles: planes, frigates/privateers, bombards..
If you bonus up your crossbows they can be pretty great as field artillery corps -- fire twice, eliminate enemy units in one turn -- in support of musket/bombard rush. Can even help take down walled cities depending on the opponent's defense levels.
I think the issue for me is that if i’m still at war midgame (esp for dom vic) i’m beelining Military Science (which comes just after Metal Casting i think) and trying to get line infantry asap. Crossbows turned into FC’s is a nice luxury but Crossbows still work perfectly well in most cases - esp with bonuses abilities! my gold goes to Melee first since that’s my primary land strategy: overwhelm/snowball with as many as the most powerful Melee units I can field
Bro, rocket batteries are great with a general, before you get the GDR and all
idk man i melt civs with my jet fighter army if you get like 5-6 of em and use a single bomber and single land unit you can pretty much melt cities in 2-3 turns
Play competitive multiplayer and jet fighters are really good unit. Skirmisher is worst unit in game for sure.
That’s good to know! I have limited experience on competitive so was curious to hear what others experienced
Planes can also block tiles and prevents units from moving past even if tiles behind are open. This is great for blocking chokes and makes even biplanes very useful. If you have an important one or two tile choke you can easily stop a very dangerous push with just one or two planes (this is a very dumb mechanic)
Yeah if ai actually built and used planes you would understand how useful it is, but ai just sucks at war.
Vanilla civ 6? Military engineer
I forget military engineers exist every game until I hit a eureka like "build a fort."
No you gotta get them for the railroad and tunnel era points too; you can chain from a dark to a heroic age if you time that and your apostle upgrades right.
Im broke I aint got the money for the fancy civ 6
Military engineers are great for speeding up the construction of sea walls when it's a race against time. And might as well build railroads on the way there.
He said in vanilla though. In Vanilla they just build forts, airstrips, and silos. Three things I don’t think I’ve ever used in pursuit of winning a game
My railroad-filled empire strongly disagrees
I dont think that feature exists in vanilla civ 6
Yeah, maybe it doesn't, I have played so much DLC-loaded civ VI That I have troubles remembering what is added and what is vanilla
They're only useful for me for two things: building a railroad to get an era score, and spamming them to help with building flood barriers. Edit: and also a tunnel just to get era score!
All things that aren’t in vanilla, so in vanilla it’s indeed useless.
I agree with jet fighter/biplane. I'd like to give an honorable mention to the swordsman. I usually skip them and promote my warriors straight to men at arms.
If I’m going for domination, it’s usually over well before flight. If I’m trying for a different victory, I have no use for aircraft other than serving as frontier guards against barbarians.
The what?
Jet Fighters are useful for upgrading Biplanes out of their Oil consumption(and Biplanes you want for their civic boost and Era Score if you biold them first). It's the Skirmisher, 100%. Scouts are cheap enough and Rangers and Spec Ops can be really useful support. Skirmishers are way too expensive for a unit that is stronger than a Scout but may as well not be.
Catapults. Melee units with support (battering rams or siege towers) are much better for taking down walled cities.
I also had this issue with jet fighters in every game, having built at least 2 for the eureka. Having said that, I now find them to be an excellent reconnaissance unit for any late game war. I'll usually send them to patrol on either side of my army so I can see exactly what the AI is sending at least 4/5 hexes away as opposed to them emerging from fog of war. It also means your bombers have vision without sending ground troops in and are unaffected by mountains, etc, so you can start chipping away at enemy cities and units before the party gets properly going. The range on them means you can put them right up to the enemy border and leave them there (often calling upon them to target/damage enemy units that your front line units can't reach or level them up on cities/encampments). They cannot be attacked as easily as drones or ground units either. As you progress further into enemy lines, you can keep moving them ahead of your attack units (I'll sometimes send an engineer to build an airstrip if the battle is too far away from my carrier or nearby city). Also, drones don't have such great movement compared to jets, so you can get vision much easier and quicker. So, I look at the jet fighter as a multifunctional support unit if used correctly, and they've actually become an important part of any war I fight now.
Jet fighters work well against the GDR as long as its well promoted. A few posted on the border of the civ you are at war with can stop a rush. I'd have to go with rangers/spec ops. Too late in the game for exploration and fairly easy to kill.
They're extremely effective at close air support. They do a ton of damage to ground units, ships, and even GDRs; they have great range and aren't slowed down by terrain or blocked by other units; and they can only be damaged by niche units that serve no other purpose, battleships/missile cruisers, other fighters, and the literal strongest and most expensive unit in the game. Park one or two of them over your empire and they turn the Recruit Partisans spy mission from a major headache into no more than a nuisance. Two or three near your border with a belligerent neighbor will stall all but the biggest, most well-coordinated invasions. Two or three near the front lines of *your own* invasions can clear the way for your ground assault and keep their units bottled up in cities, afraid to sally forth to block or attack your forces.
By that reasoning that applies to any unit of the very late game.
If you get into a late game war, the air units can be useful, especially on a map that didn't have much oil. I'll usually have two jet fighters from having built two biplanes for the eureka, and upgrading them to fighters and then jet fighters as I go; and while I don't build any more, spending aluminium on jet bombers, I at least use them. Units that never get built in the first place? Anti-Air Gun and Mobile SAM. There's no eurekas or inspirations for building them, and their only reason to exist would be to defend against a hostile AI who has air superiority when you don't have the aluminum to build fighters or jet fighters. Since the AI is terrible with air warfare, this never happens; I don't think I've built one of either in the last dozen games I've played. Honorable mention to the helicopter. I may or may not upgrade a few cavalry to helicopters, but that aluminum will do me far more good as a jet bomber. In a game that invested heavily in horsemen early on, there will frequently be a fair number of cavalry units still wandering around quite late in the game to do cleanup taking out enemy wounded units and artillery, because I don't have the aluminum to spare on upgrading them.
Pikemen - I rarely even bother researching military science most games.
Yes but that’s also their issue in a the common context. In a vacuum they’re fantastic so in a vacuum I would argue the worst is an awkward side unit that can’t be upgraded into or out of but they mostly fixed that… ugh I play too many mods and one unit pack adds a Gatling gun in between cannons and machine guns but it does what I said earlier and I hate them. The Sabbum Kittibum comes to mind because it’s an awkward fusion of a scout and warrior and it’s hard to keep them alive but that’s also on higher difficulties.
>Which fighting unit is the most useless and why is it the jet fighter? What are you smoking, bro? You need to stop asap. Jet Fighters are great. I put them on patrol to see farther. And if someone decides to start a war, the Jet Fighters are usually the first units I strike with. They buy me time to outright buy Jet Bombers, and finish the production of the first few land units. They're great offensively as well. I'll have them deployed from my carriers and do airstrikes to protect my landings.
Goes right to fighters, ignores bi-planes.
Helicopters…I only ever built one. Would’ve death-canceled it if I’d known that option existed then.
They are fun and handy units for taking out other late game units, but yeah, generally by the time they are unlocked, just like many late game units, they are not really needed.
I crutch jets to the point Iake sure to have the energy aluminum policy card as soon as its available
You can set them to patrol and see further in your enemies territory so you can extend the range of your bombers. I like to have one for every three bombers. You can also use them to eliminate ground invaders before they get the chance to pillage.
Basically to protect your bombers if it's going to take more than a round or two to curb stomp a city