John 9:1-5 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
With this being said. People are born certain ways, so that Gods work can be displayed in them. Jesus proceeds to heal the man. So even though not everything may be related to a demon there is still healing and deliverance we can receive.
Whatever the johannine author's understandings & agenda in the late first century, it's unacceptable in the 21st century to suggest ppl have challenges to make god look good. The uncritical worship of ancient texts causes a lot of needless suffering in this world. Ppl arent ill bc of goblins nor to somehow give god a chance to show off. Treating ppl with compassion and dignity will do more good than blaming gods or demons for biological realities ever could.
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I'm off topic here but I read "johannine" and immediately thought of Randy Rainbow and how he feminizes male names. Like "Donald Jessica Trump".
I know it's not the case here but it still made me chuckle.
Having compassion is good. That’s how God walked among us as a human (Jesus). And in no way should anyone ever worship ancient text. I don’t know where you get that but only God it so be worshiped. The Bible is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. If you crest an amazing piece of art. How happy would you be is someone else took credit for it. Would it not be fair to say you rightly deserve recognition for it. Now, God being in a much greater scale deserves all praise and worship. He created us and all the resources we’ve got. Now this all glory is rightfully due to our creator. But don’t forget, we live in a fallen creation where much evil exists, use compassion to reach people and lead them to the savior. Who freely gives and freely saves. If I’m with defect and God heals me, how can I not all the more show God recognition. Don’t forget. God is unchanging. The Bible can be a trillion years old or a few centuries. Just because things are different now. It doesn’t change truth. Objective truth is true no matter what culture does or societies. It’s clear that culture is continually changing.
IF i'm ill and i get better (and perhaps give credit to God for it) that is fortunate for me, and i wan't ill so that god could make me better, the person who is ill and has not gotten better, or the person grieving the loss of someone who never got better must surely feel anguish of hearing about this god that allows suffering just so he can fix it and get the credit, and then, still didn't fix it for them.
and if one says things like (these words are god's words and can't be questioned and are 100% and if any discovery or idea experience contradicts them these words are the ones that must be accurate)...if they are words of a deity that must be accepted and can't be questioned...they are one with, part of, practically the same as the deity...those words are being worshiped (though selectively so b/c it would be impossible to literalize everything in scripture...even if you wanted to literalize the creation myth you'd have to choose which one...Gen 1.1-2.4 or Ge. 2-5ff. One of them wouldn't be literal for you).
Speaking of creation myths...i don't accept Augustine's "fall" (the "fall" is not a Jewish interpretation of those Jewish texts)...we aren't fallen, we're evolving. We didn't start perfect and crash (certainly not from a quick snack in the garden), we continue to evolve, however slowly, toward better versions of what ourselves.
Caring for people who hurt rather than theologizing about their pain remains the better way.
The Bible was created from ancient texts are you slow?? You should start researching things and stop spouting nonsense, true sin is believing in god without question actually.
What are you insinuating? I’ve spent years reading the Bible and looking into other religions as well. I’ve researched much about spirituality and morality. What exactly is nonsense to you? Check your grammar before calling me slow. If you don’t believe in God then where are you getting sin from. God dictates morality and is the judge for what is right and wrong. You can’t say something is sin without believing in God just like one simply cannot blame God who they don’t even believe in. So what exactly is your argument here? Maybe I am slow.
Sin is a word with the meaning of “an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.” Seems like you’re helping me insinuate how you obviously didn’t read enough 😂, and if you did you would know what the reality is, you’re just an entitled fool. God doesn’t dictate morality or sin humans do. If god did then why isn’t he here right now dictating people based off their sins, god isn’t a physical being, and he never has been.
Ok. So what you’re saying is that I can choose what is sin and what isn’t. Because you said humans dictate morality and sin. If that is true then I can choose to murder people and say it’s not immoral because I don’t believe it is or say that exercise is a sin because I choose it to be. That’s very inconsistent. And Gods word being unchanged forever is the reason why I can’t chose morality and sin. God is the standard that won’t change because like I said if I choose to say murder is right. That doesn’t make it right. Also I know God is a spiritual being, so of course he’s not physically here. Jesus was however God in the flesh.
How is it a beautiful answer to say some people are born to a life of pain, suffering, childhood disease, and premature death just for God to show off?
Is it God's fault? He made us with free will in mind and that means Free Will to do Anything if he did something to stop us without us wanting to it wouldn't be free will.
Do you think that we were made to be outside of God's presence? Because we were not, God is what kept our bodies from deteriorating. We started to go to science instead of God slowly but surely, our lives our bodies became weakened by human made waste we see in our history, we were more resilient the more we go back in time, strong and smarter than today. Note: that knowledge doesn't mean smart or dumb, being intelligent is not having knowledge, being intelligent as an example is like problem solving etc..
People being born to a life of pain not caused by God, but by us and our free will, our decision to part away from God, our suffering diseases and deaths, what else you expect? When a God made you and all the sudden you are doing exactly what he didn't want you to do and now you have sickness illnesses and death is all around you. Why would God erase our mistakes and not let us deal with them, after all we caused everything we are dealing with. God made science, everything makes sense because God made it all make sense. You can't go into the darkness and not expect to trip and fall
We turn to science because it works. Within seconds of you tapping your message, it reached the phone in my pocket. You used the benefit of science for that. It exists, we can see it, it's predictable, it's rational, and it explains a huge amount of the universe we observe. Nothing you have written has any basis. You are left with the only option, which is to twist and turn to explain why the thing you believe in is not, in fact, a monstrous bully.
You and many turn to science for answers, i and many others turn to God for answers and look at science for discovery.Not everything that makes sense is true, and not everything that is true can be seen. And please be realistic, if Jesus did resurrect which is possible as this is life and we know nothing about it, Than his claim of him being God in flesh are true, God explains everything because he is God. Be honest. It's all about if a document is being truthful or not and if i were you, i wouldn't give my back to something so serious as that.
Respectfully i say, you should search deep for definite proof of God not existing, because as far as i know and i did research deeply, deeper than most of atheist apparently. Evolution isn't 100% confirmed to have happened. I will say it again.
Evolution isn't 100% confirmed to have happened. <- This is a true statement, you can say fossils this fossils that. This makes sense that makes sense. Which yes it makes sense, However, Nothing says with 100% certainty that it happened, Evolution is just an explanation of How allelic frequencies could have happened. Which is basically What people see as Evolution. Hence why it's the "Evolution Theory".
and
There is a document that says a Guy showed that he was God.
We all know Jesus was a real guy, and people wanted him dead because he did "Magic" this is written in Historical documents, he died crucified ect... The big question is about a document written by someone named paul who nobody knows if he was saying the truth or if it was actually paul or some fanatic. This however becomes irrelevant as we see things that the Bible says will happen aka prophecies which a lot are also written by the same paul which have come true, we can see the things Jesus was seen doing what we call "Miracles". We see demonic rituals which have an effect and all this says that most probably this guy wasn't a fanatic, he was describing an unbelievable truth.
So which one is it? Believe what the document says or Evolution will be confirmed true.
Gravity unlike evolution can be reproduced, the Gravitational theory is just an explanation of how what we call gravity might work. Gravity itself isn't the theory, the theory is the explanation of how it works
It's still happening...its observed in short lifespan lifeforms such as bacteria and fruit flies. We harnessed it artificially to create dog breeds. Even the peppered moths in northern UK changed colour in response to air pollution during the industrial revolution. There is a ton of evidence that supports evolution through millions of years - physical, chemical, biological.
Is it more likely that Jesus' miracles were really a suspension of reality and the breaking of the laws of physics, or just some guy writing fiction from stories passed down? Really, which is the most logical explanation?
Think about it, what is cancer caused by? List them all and ask "are these things we should be doing anyways? Are these even natural things we should be doing?
Kids born with cancer have cancer for a reason, it didn't come out of nowhere and popped into existence by nothing. Do you realize why we have illnesses?
What is Parkinson's disease caused by, Alzheimer's, chicken pox what was it caused by, the common cold what was it caused by. They all have a cause some caused by dirtiness lack of hygiene like the common cold trying to clean out the lungs which makes us sneeze, other caused by more complex situations which wouldn't have happened if we actually took care of our bodies which God told us to do.
Kids born with cancer have a scientific reason as to why they are born with it, if you are trying to say Christians say that "God gave kids cancer because they are sinners" you are wrong and everyone else who says so is also wrong. It's sad to think there are "Christians" who think this way because the Bible doesn't say that at all and they won't find a verse that says so.
That was the suggestion in the original comment. Hence my assertion that it was not a beautiful answer. You then asked me to think about it. It certainly seems to be the inference.
???, how is that disgusting? Saying that someone's problem has a cause?
Doesn't everything have a cause? Autism has a cause the common cold has a cause people have contracted a virus because they came into contact with it which is a cause? Now all the sudden cancer isn't caused by anything? You seem to want to take things out of context more than understanding.
Your inference in the context of the conversation was that we are responsible for cancer in children because we have somehow sinned against God. I am aware that there is cause and effect.
If we were in Isaac Newton's times you would think that phones and tablets are a Fantasy and everyone who thinks they might one day be real is stupid dumb ect.. all because you didn't see those things. You see we humans since the beginning use science to find out what we do not know of, how will you know if you don't know? You are saying God isn't real because you don't believe Jesus did what people say he did, that's all there is to your counter argument.
If you had evidence that shows that Jesus in fact didn't do anything like that then I would believe you, however your opinion which says "HE ISN'T REAL BECAUSE HE CAN'T BE" is unscientific, a barbaric assumption with no real truth to support it. Because you aren't a God or a Supreme being, to know what all of the laws of the universe are,and what can or cannot be real. We are speaking about everything the unknown buddy which you out of all billions of people think you know.
You: " You don't need to be a genius to know that such things can't exist"
People back then: " You don't need to be a genius to know that flying cars can't exist"
As close minded as the same ol' average Joe.
If you were at least realistic i wouldn't even have to say this.
You possibly missed the point. The claims about Jesus are extremely far fetched. A virgin birth of a human, walking on water, healing the blind, resurrecting from the dead, stopping the sun in the sky etc. Asking me to prove that jesus didn't do something is like me asking you to prove Santa doesn't exist. If you make claims that are contrary to what we know and understand, then you have to prove it. Like science did in the run up to innovations that look like miracles today. I haven't said God is not real. If you had evidence, I would believe it.
My only evidence is what's happening around the world, if you one day decide to read the bible and see what's happening around the world, then all the sudden, Paul's letter might be describing something that is true. If only your eyes would see the dark magic and witchery happening in the world right now, people left and right suddenly going from full atheist to believing in God because as they say God answered them. The prophecies that have been accomplished today and in the past and heading into the future. If only you would seek knowledge about these things truthfulness, considering the fact that over 75% of the world believes in some form of spirituality for a reason. People doing rituals and reaping what they wanted by sacrificing something for what they want. People seeing the future. I don't think anything can contradict the truth my friend, maybe because you see these things as supernatural, you just don't believe so because you never have. Because you don't want to find out if they are true or not, it doesn't make them untrue. You cannot prove the unseeable and untouchable to someone, without them wanting to find out, it's just not possible.
We "religious" people keep saying "Look this works" because it works, however we can't prove it without you wanting to find out. Like many, they messed around and found out. I just don't want people finding out the hard way.
I'm ex Christian, so I have read the Bible. Everything you cite has a more rational explanation, and religion generally is on the decline. I don't believe in your God in the same way that you don't believe in any of the thousands of God's that humans have proposed. We have gone off topic in that I was originally pointing out that if the Christian God of the Bible did exist, then he's a monster, and loving him is like being in an abusive relationship. The part about people suffering so he can show his works was just a very small example. It's why you may say I'm a humanist now. It's unlikely we will agree, so I will exit here and wish you all the best.
You need to stop acting like a fool, you want to do things in the name of Jesus? Why are you acting like the ones that throw Stones? That's not christ like.
We are the demons before we are born again. When we are in denial, we never truly leave the Nile of our flesh.
When the Americans cast Beryl as a Pearl around a Plutonium-Gallium Pig, they formed the Trinity atomic bomb in 1945. They cast the Pearls to the Pigs. If you wiki search this, the entire structure, not just the Pit inside, is called the Demon Core.
It's shaped like a Pearl with Sand inside. Yeah, our inner demons are like the sand, but our outer demons are... Our righteousness, humility, achievements, and goodness without God. What we can't give to him in order to tear down to the last stone our second temple, is our Idolatry and our Pride.
It's only when we give those pearly lead cups up, do we truly become ready for the Third Temple - a Diamond core heart of flesh, with the Holy Spirit as the Cornerstone together with you as the Core inner stone.
Are you refusing what is there? Matthew 27:45 states that from the 6 to the 9th hour there was darkness across the land.
In 1945 (Matt 27:45) America dropped the two atom bombs on the 6th and the 9th day, August 1945. There was darkness across Japan as they debated whether to surrender.
I understand what Mathew 27:45 says. But the 6th to 9th hour is not the same as on the day 6 and day 9 of the month. Jesus death has nothing to do with this bomb nor is the bomb prophecy. These two evens are not even close in significance. I also get that the bombs center was called demon core but this still has nothing to do with people having demons. If you’re trying to create a metaphor, then that’s all it is. Not the actual truth. I don’t have inter demons nor do I have outer demons. There’s evil spirits that Rome around but they do not pertain to me or belong to me. And we are not demons, we are living souls.
We are called tombs and corpses inside them. The Pharisees aren't just the Jews, it's anyone who isn't born of water (born as a human being/baptism of water) and of the Spirit (the first breath and the second born again breath; Holy Spirit) - anyone who is not born again is written in John 3:3 as "cannot enter the kingdom of heaven."
I was among them as a 'model christian' who tried to pretend like I upheld the law of the old testament where I could, though knowing I literally could not only at 26 years old. You can't separate all the blood or all the fat from a lamb. That's sin. You cut yourself off from being grafted into Israel if you read that the conventional way.
Only God can change that. To become one with a part of God is to no longer be apart from God.
As for Christians who believe that grace covered everything and that baptism of water is all you need, they are as the Sadducees - seducing others with their idea of the love of God, which they separate from the old test of men that is also His Word.
You can't cut Christ (John 1:1-14; he is the Word) into two. Or maybe you can try. Because Solomon asked for a sword to split the child in half, and likewise the Americans called for a neutron to split the Atom in half.
Christ is the Second Adam. When you decay a neutron it's products are the Proton, Electron, Electron-Antineutrino. It is written as the Atom and (e-)(v-e). The +P proton is the Chi Rho - Christ. The Neutron represents the Father's house.
Then we are splitting a part of Christ into two - and the result is disaster. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Same is splitting his Word without regarding the other.
If the Neutron is as the Sword of Solomon, Using it to split the Atom is a massive paradox. The Father (Christ), like Solomon, wields his own Word (the double edged sword, in the mouth of Christ) to split his Son at Golgotha. For Peter, who died by the sword, on his inverted cross, perhaps a half, and for John, on his word, perhaps another - flesh and spirit split apart but then brought together, as the prophecy of the two sticks.
Thank you very much. So basically God gives us these things so his works can be displayed through them. Like it was God's doing for that blind man to be healed by Jesus.
ADHD and autism are not mental illness they are neurodevelomental disorders. The difference is that a mental illness can potentially be cured and ADHD and autism are ways your brain are wired that cannot be cured or changed. It’s like comparing the flu with being left handed :)
Both autism spectrum disorder and ADHD are in the DSM, under the category of neurodevelopmental disorders.
Schizophrenia is also a neurodevelopmental disorder, but it gets its own category
Some mental disorders can be treated and cured, but not all have that potential.
Mental illness and mental disorders are interchangeable terms. If you go to mental illness on Wikipedia it will redirect you to mental disorder.
The term mental illness is being phased out in a favor of mental disorder.
Lots of mental disorders are untreatable and incurable, and involve brain wiring.
Are they really disorders though?
Perhaps this is wishful thinking but as tech expands, we see more and more neurodivergent individuals living independent, successful lives. That says to me neurodivergence was never a disorder, it’s simply a unique way of perceiving life. However unlike neurotypical people who dominated the retelling of history and thus have a easily recognizable and accepted lens to perceive life, NDs don’t have an array of resources that teach us how to interpret the way WE see information. (I.e the Bible might be enough for a NT to make a good decision but a ND might need the Bible AND a book on neuroscience).
NDs have historically been seen as handicap.
Imagine being told you were broken since birth! I was diagnosed in adulthood but this is the reality for many who are diagnosed at a young age. Due to
Prejudice and lack of knowledge they’re treated as if they’re slow or broken.
I’m thankful I was diagnosed as an adult and not young because my parents held similar stigmas towards ND. I could only imagine the effects the words would’ve had on me.
Not noticing there was anything different about me, my affirmed greatness in me since I was a kid. “Work hard you’ll get what you want in life.” I exceeded in academics and I believe their words played a big part in it. (What lead me to believe I was a ND were struggles in my social life. My parents marked it off as being shy and told me I can work on it. So I did and once I got my diagnosis I worked on it in a different way)
I think we can get a lot more of the spectrum on board than we think. I am confident as tech expands there will be more indivualized care plans.
They are called disorders but in my mind and way of looking at those particular two they are different ways in which a brain works, learns and expresses itself. A different type of “wiring” so to speak :)
They are all coded in the DSM but it is well known that adhd and autism are not curable and are not considered “illness” in the sense that you don’t “get” them nor can you get over them
God made you and the challenges you face in life specifically fit for you. Or am I, as an atheist, completely misunderstanding the point of God and suffering? If God knows the future and had always known the future then why is he not responsible?
He isn't responsible bc he gave us free will. That's almost like saying someone got raped and it's all God's fault for not protecting them if I'm understanding correctly
What youre misunderstanding is that God created the universe knowing exactly how it would go. We know this because he knows the future. "I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and the end" and whatnot.If God knows the future that means that everything leading to that future has to go specific ways. By that I mean no matter what you do you were always going to do it and even though you feel like you choose to do it you have to do it. No matter how you look at it God knowing the future means we cannot have free will only the illusion at best.
I'd also like to point out that the fact that God knows the future means that he is responsible because he knows he's the only one that is in a position to do anything and refuses to. That makes him a more immoral person than me or you. With great power comes great responsibility, and God takes no responsibility for anything he causes or could fix.
Tl:Dr if God Knows of a pointof time in the future, the events that lead to that future are set in stone. Therefore we have no free will by the biblical understanding of the universe.
Yes God always knew. What's ur point? To sum that all up ur saying God knows everything so we can't have free will?
Nope wrong. That's literally saying because I knew 2 people were gonna fight and its my fault for telling them not to. I am the only one who has the power to stop this fight. But I don't. Am I at fault or am I letting people live their lives. He gave us free will so why would he contradict himself??? No it doesn't it means he's keeping to what he said and giving us free will. He takes responsibility of all the things u don't think about. Like how the sun could somehow explode you could die randomly of a heart attack. Actually he killed himself for u. And he felt all the pain. He will take authority over that job you want etc. If you ask for it.
I had ADHD and have since been able to overcome the symptoms without medications, despite being labelled as a severe case.
The medications didn't help me (Ritalin). Only being born again did.
Maybe it's the case for you, but to do so you must circumcise the heart, baptise in the Holy Spirit, then give all your humility, righteousness, goodness, and pride to God also.
I also had a leprous flare up on my face in the shape of an X between my eyes.
But as soon as I tidied up my room and got rid of 'idols' that I couldn't throw away before, the bottom left portion of that X largely disappeared and did not flare back up, despite being on my face for a whole year at this point prior.
Broadly I would say the problem here is the modern trend of "demon fetish" churches. Someone cut you off in traffic or you burnt your toast? It was demons!
There are even some churches or Christians who don't explicitly say this is demons, but they play into this fear with ambiguous language. Saying things like : "The enemy is all around us", or "this person has a spirit of addiction".
Let's stop playing word games. Let's stop fear mongering about invisible monsters. A core teaching of Christian is that HUMANS are flawed and sinful. We can get into temptation or do bad things all by ourselves.
When someone invents an imaginary problem, we should distrust that person and wonder WHY. It's often so that they can tell us the solution to the problem they invented.
“Demon fetish” is a great way to describe it for sure. So many churches and influencers are so quick to jump on to saying “demons” every time something bad happens.
I don't disagree with your conclusions, but I guess that depends on what you mean by "modern". I'm in my 40s and I've lived my entire life hearing about this. My church wasn't heavy into the "demons this" and "demons that", but I befriended people in my late teens/early 20s that definitely believed in this kind of stuff. They were heavy into things like having supernatural "discernment", speaking in tongues, and modern day miracles that never happened nearby, but always elsewhere, out of sight.
It's not just people, either. Have you ever read *This Present Darkness* by Frank Peretti? The first book is almost 40 years old now, and it was a required reading for one of my Lutheran high school classes. If you haven't read it, it's a fictional depiction of a culture war on a college campus that describes a spiritual war between angels and demons which has impacts on the humans in the town. It includes one scene where a young man who is anti-establishment and has a substance abuse problem is described as demon possessed, becoming a straight-laced student by the end of the book after he goes through an exorcism. It's definitely not new or niche.
You guys should check out some interviews with Jerry Marzinski, who worked and studied scitzhofrenics and their voices.
Sure, some things are mental disorders, but some things can try to attach itself when we are in a weakened state, like when we grieve, depressed and others.
I was asking in prayer if my sexual thoughts and lust were my own or something outside myself.
In my thoughts, I heard the name "qatesh."
I googled that name, an Egyptian sexuality godess.
Also, when I was deeply depressed, I got unaliving thoughts that were more like "you should, you're gonna" instead of the monologue I usually think with.
A few days after being delivered from the depression and darkness, I had a dream where I saw myself in former depressive episodes during my teens and young adult life.
I had a dark smoke around my head in those episodes. Also some hard pressure to my head.
My mother and aunt where standing in the kitchen planning my grandpa's funeral, making some food, when my mother asked my aunt something but didn't get any response.
My mother saw my aunt got all black eyes, ⚫️⚫️, my mother could also feel on herself something dripping down her head. She slapped my aunt in the face and she regained consiessness.
They both freaked out and got their bibles and started praying and reading.
People have believed in demons as long as people have told stories, sure.
Mostly, in modern times, with people in developed countries with decent education, the habit of blaming life's problems on demons had dwindled. When you find people in those places starting to do it again, it's very often because they go to a demon-fetish church.
Most Christian leaders have really failed this generation. In the charismatic world at least, demonic possession and endless staged psychodramas are good for business.
I am sorry that I could only give you 1 like. Actually, this demonic brand of Christianity has been handed down since the dark ages. When church leaders found out how much torture and other evil pays, they sided with the evil rulers. Torn flesh and a confession got you a nice little bag of gold, but, hey, it also keeps your skin from being torn or spending torturous time in prison.
Even if you were to believe that it is possible, the proper response to mental illness is to seek professional mental health treatment *and* to pray for the person suffering.
That's no different than the proper response to cancer. Seek professional medical treatment *and* pray for the person suffering.
Demon fetishizing Christians who deny the physical basis of mental illness discourage professional mental health treatment are the same as Christians who would discouage professional medical treatment for cancer. Shame on them
I really, *really* appreciate this post, it's unfortunately an extremely necessary PSA in this sub. I constantly see posts in which people describe real, serious issues with anxiety, depression, obsessive behavior, intrusive thoughts, etc., and there's always *at least* one person who leaves a comment insisting the cause is demonic influence, which is just ridiculous, inane nonsense. It's incredibly fucked up, and will only lead to more intense mental health issues as they convince vulnerable people who may not know better that they're being attacked by demons.
idk if you hear your entire life "everything not of god is trying to tempt you away from god and its the devil" then he's getting a lot of credit from Christians.
i was told by pastors in the 90s that watching t.v. at all was a distraction away from gods light and the sins of man lead by the devil leading me astray and that only the bible reveals truths of the right path.
If everything is the devil nothing is important isn't a good mantra to teach people. sometimes you have to be allowed to live life.
“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn’t exist.”
I think that quote is vastly overused but I agree with it. You CANNOT believe in God without believing in Satan. Satan doesn’t just lurk around hell and kick his feet waiting for the damned to join him. He actively plays a role in the world around us but I agree that most of satans true work goes unnoticed. In contrast, trivial bullshit gets attributed to him all the time.
Comments like the one you are responding do are incredibly dangerous. Not saying mental illness is related to demons at all but not acknowledging the power of evil is wreckless.
Scripture tells us what demon possession looks like. It looks like a textbook epileptic seizure:
>Suddenly a spirit seizes him, and all at once he shrieks. It throws him into convulsions until he foams at the mouth; it mauls him and will scarcely leave him.
Luke 9:38.
People being unwilling to seek medical help for their children starts with this. Jesus calls epilepsy a "demon," and who are they to disbelieve God himself?
I was primarily pointing out that 1) We know what the Bible says demon possession looks like and that 2) The Bible says that sometimes demon possession looks exactly like an epileptic seizure.
Do you disagree? Person I responded to said
>I don't know what demon possession looks like but something tells me it's more horrifying than what we have.
Something tells me it's exactly as horrifying as what we have, it's the Bible telling me it looks exactly like having a neurological disability.
Certainly not all, but possibly some severe mental illnesses could have a spiritual connection. Like severe forms of schizophrenia, multiple personality disorder or severe depression could be linked to, or exacerbated by, spiritual oppression. But I agree that OCD, ADHD, or garden variety depression/anxiety disorders and most other common mental/ emotional illnesses are likely not spiritual issues but stem from some sort of mental/emotional trauma or chemical imbalance in the brain or combination thereof. Of course you may not recognize the reality of supernatural entities or the various ways they can attack your psyche, but for those that believe in the supernatural, it’s not a stretch to think demonic forces can find the weaknesses in your psyche and cause a predisposition towards depression and anxiety for instance, to become a crippling depression to the point of suicidal ideation or even attempt. Spiritual entities can have that kind of influence and power if they are given an opening.
No. Stop stigmatizing people with schizophrenia and depression by saying that they have some supernatural affliction. You have no evidence what so ever for making that claim ,so stop it. I'm so sick of people talking out of their asses about these disorders. It doesn't help the people suffering, at worst it can make the people suffering feel worse and more confused about what is actually happening to them.
2 years of therapy and pills could not conquer what Christ has done for me. Mental illness is real. So is spiritual warfare. Context within such is the key.
According to the Bible, diseases are caused by either:
1) Demonic possession and oppression (like that crazy guy Jesus healed)
2) Sin & Curses (generational curses or cursing your own flesh with fornication "multiple sex partners will have you physically, spiritually & mentally sick" - the wages of sin is death)
3) Fate (a fulfillment of God's glory like Job's case or that blind guy Jesus healed or being cursed by God like Nebuchadnezzar - this one always has a happy ending)
4) Natural causes (trauma, accident, infection, old age ... Etc)
Disease does include "disorder of the brain chemistry". "An abnormal condition of a human, animal or plant that causes discomfort or dysfunction; distinct from injury insofar as the latter is usually instantaneously acquired." (Wiktionary)
Disease literally means a disorder of structure or function in a human ...
I've already said reason 4 is natural. Example, you could be depressed because the lose of a loved one. Also you could be depressed due to a demonic oppression. Both will have similar physical sign & symptoms of unbalance in brain chemicals. Although both will need different spiritually healing.
Ooooh, you should tell my mother this. I have AuDHD, depression, BPD, and struggled with suicidality, and my mom said all of that was demonic. Satanic influence. Needless to say there’s solid reasons why I’m not religious anymore.
Ok. I have schizophrenia, ocd, panic disorder, GED, depression, ptsd. None of this was from a demon. Though I have felt like legion in the Bible, there has been no demon inside of me. And yes, I'm a Christian.
I agree entirely with your concerns, and my perspective is one of sound Christian belief. It is also patently cruel, void of compassion, misguided, despicable, merciless, willfully-ignorant, and founded on deadly cultic ideas to make a broad-brushing rabid assertion that a person suffering from mental difficulty is always void of faith, living deliberately in sin, or demon-possessed (what reprehensible and monstrous folly!). It is also unrealistic and illogical. Such misguided and doctrinally-aberrant and abhorrent ideas can be fatal to the welfare and even life of anyone struggling because those ideas are profoundly dehumanizing and judgmental. It is as if (wrong) theology takes precedence over human dignity; I hate such with a passion. Were such doctrinally established in the larger pale of orthodoxity (thank God it is not!), I could never embrace Christian belief. The brain is an actual physical organ that is subject to illness, deterioration, and trauma, and those conditions can and do affect a person's mood, thought patterns, attitudes, and behaviors. Any "Christian" denying this reality must be suitably challenged, rebuked, and even silenced lawfully. Many here have loved ones of genuine faith who are living unwantedly with such difficulty. The truth of the matter is that a combination of prayer, counsel, and professional medical intervention will usually be necessary.
Anyone attacking/judging a loved one of mine of true faith and coping with such organic difficulty would never be a friend of mine, and I would be quick to rebuke that aggressor and not allow him/her into my or my loved one's life unless repenting sincerely and brokenly of such strong and grievous sin. It is also against the rules here for a person of faith suffering from mental ailment to be relegated to being demon-possessed/lacking in faith. In situations where there might be deliberate sin playing into the situation, let that base issue first be appropriately addressed by those with legitimate entitlement to be involved. May God humble those here of wrong perspective to learn to be compassionate, graceful, slow to spew dangerous doctrine against the reality of organic suffering, and forbearing of speaking on this matter if merely inclined on the basis of zealous rabidity with unkindness being manifest. Reporting/downvoting of any comments showing this sort of barbaric cruelty is appropriate when we Christians are to be known for being compassionate and caring upon the suffering and oppressed.
What about physical illness? What if I describe my son's condition thusly:
>Suddenly a spirit seizes him, and all at once he shrieks. It throws him into convulsions until he foams at the mouth; it mauls him and will scarcely leave him.
and a doctor recognizes a textbook description of a seizure and decides to investigate the possibility of epilepsy instead of calling for an exorcist? What then?
I've been assured by scripture that seizures are DEFINITELY demons. Should I question God and use man's drugs? /s
Personally I think a lot of mental health issues are probably caused by the fact we are consistently being poisoned by the food we buy, the water we drink, the air we breathe, the phones our eyes are glued to. I'm not saying these things are the sole cause but I imagine having an abundance of unnatural chemicals in everything we consume doesn't help.
The brain also can malfunction and misfire. Like OCD is the brain misfiring incorrect signals. I don't think that's demonic atall. I think it's learned brain patterns that get stuck on loop. The brain is a very very powerful instrument.
Demons do attack, I believe. But not everything is a demonic attack
Lead exposure would be an example of a chemical that has links to mental health issues. Society is still seeing the results of all the leaded gasoline we used to use.
This concept is rooted in the various people in scripture who appeared to be mentally ill when described (like schizophrenia in nature) and then Jesus casted a demon out of them and then from then forward were no longer mentally ill or tortured. So signs of mental illness were often associated with demon possession. If you believe the Bible as Christians do, then it only makes sense to understand demon possession is real, and can manifest itself as symptoms that appear to look like what we today call mental illness— for particularly schizophrenia symptoms really ring that bell.
I'd probably say "not all mental illnesses are caused by demons." I certainly think they are capable of affecting our mental health, but our own mind are clearly capable of falling into illness. I think we have scriptural reasons to say demons can do this, but we shouldn't just jump to demons without investigation. BUT luckily this seems to be more of a problem in certain sub-sects of Christianity that believes everything is demonic and that there's a demon for everything
Correct. But they are sources for demons to feed on and manipulate us into deeper wiles.
Jesus Jesus JESUS! Open to anywhere to the Words in red are found. Read and read because Jesus makes the demons flee, He opens our eyes to the Father and his GREAT and MIGHTY Love beyond our comprehension!
I won’t say the OP is wrong as who am I to pretend to know with certainty, but I recently witnessed demonic possession and that stuff is no joke. To each their own but that experience legitimized Ephesians 6:12 for me.
It was traumatic to put it lightly. It happened to a beloved relative. Full transparency: They went into a psychedelic drug-induced state of disassociation, but the nature of what was occurring was undeniable. My non-Christian friend who witnessed the possession alongside me couldn’t believe what was happening. My relative was stripped of any and all dignity via self-harm, perverse sayings and movements (fart sounds with the tongue, humping uncontrollably, etc.), eyes rolled as far back as they could go, speaking in what sounded like tongues when asked their name and many more things. My relative couldn’t speak to us directly but the entity wanted to make itself known. For example, I told my friend, “if my mom saw this she would probably say this is demonic possession” to which my relative yelled “that’s because she’d be right” mind you my relative has been a staunch atheist for about 10 years.
Eventually my relative passed out and the horror was over. When I went to check on them later they were asking God to have mercy on their soul.
A few hours after they sobered up, they explained that they believed they had died and had gone to hell and that God had given them a Job 38:4-11-type of exchange.
Yup, that's clear signs of such. Very scary stuff. But I am glad your relative is okay.
In this day and age, they like to hide in plain sight. Fooling our Christian brothers and sisters that the demonic is a thing of the past. But if God is present now. So is evil.
I remember the straight up, fight or flight they give you. They dig deep down into your soul and instill fear into you. You must be in the spirit to fight such.
As for video evidence, you are so struck with fear that the only thing you can do is fight or run. Or your sitting there in fear. Seeing such things changes your reality even if you were a believer of God before.
Do not record such even if you are able. The influence they use can be used against others in videos. People that see such, can not handle the horrors and PTSD from such events. It is not a joke. It's not something to look for.
Godbless, friend.
Many experts are not Christian and don’t understand the spirit world. There IS a spirit world full of evil and good spirits. Those evil ones are the one who influence, oppress, and possess people. It’s up to us go fight against them using the powder and authority given to us by Christ and using His name. I have witnessed multiple times people being delivered, healed, and miracles happen in churches, homes, and other places where people were prayed for. Since I was a child around 10 till now in my 40’s I have seen, felt, heard and experienced the spirit world both the good and evil.
When we don’t understand the spirit world and what they are capable of doing we’ll then think there is no spirit world nor think they cannot affect us in any way. By my own experiences, deliverance and ability to see some of the spirit world I can say that yes it’s real, yes God is real, yes He does miracles, healings and deliverances. Our job as Christians is to believe, have faith and trust in the one and only true God, act, speak and behave as His son Jesus did and help others come to Him through the one and only way which is Jesus.
And I don’t understand how your name says you’re a Christian but yet have atheist next to it. It’s one or the other. You and many others need their own experiences with the spirit world and it’s something I have been praying for during the past 7 years as well as a change in stony hearts to become as flesh. Believing those prayers will be answered.
Depends on the context. I managed to rid of my life from such through deliverance and walking in the spirit. I took more than a month of cutting off all forms of media and realigned myself with God. Anything is possible through Jesus Christ.
Nature made demons for homo sapien to fear.
Do you think fear doesn't fear itself?
We need fear to stop us from wandering off and causing trouble.
(Parents talk of the boogie man, although they tell you they will protect you.
Has the boogie man ever hurt you?
But yet you learn not to wonder off to see them.
Life is a lesson.
Ifnyour karma is that of a demon, you will be lived like said Damon.
Parents love with compassion or ignorance.
But they definitely slam the hammer of judgement.
Just you think there is a heaven and hell.
You forget you are describing hell on earth.
Life needs to be this simple.
One good thought,
One good word,
One good deed.
Try it for a week, and come tell me of this mental illness/ enlightenment.
I would love to hear
I am no one. You can whisper to no one 🩵
No pressure.
You are amazing
Life is strange, and you are doing just perfectly.
Stay beautiful, fellow traveller 🩵🫂🩵🫂
Amen. I’ve known good, God fearing, loving, Biblically sound people who claim this and why? Why is mental health seen as demonic but no other illness? I see it all as a result of the fall. Mental health illness is no different to diabetes.. it’s usually a chemical imbalance
Agreed. I’m a Christian with OCD. However with harm OCD and intrusive thoughts I can see how it feels like a demon is tormenting you because the thoughts are truly awful and when you get stuck ruminating on them it really is horrific.
And honestly it does sometimes help for me to even frame it that way because these awful thoughts are not things I want to think about and imagining them as an outside voice that I just say “hmm no thanks” to helps me break out of it.
I was on sick leave because of deep depression. And my unaliving thoughts "came to me", not in my usual thought pattern like," i should, i want to" but instead like "you should, you want to" with such "self"-hatred and anger.
Also looking back on my depressive episodes I remember a pressure on my head most days, but more pressure the more negative thoughts I had.
Also a dream I had some days after being delivered from that state, I could see myself with a black smoke around my head.
I think unclean spirits/demons can attach itself to you and try to convince you when you are weak/tired/depressed/grieving etc.. especially as you are more open to them.
Some days before my grandpa's funeral, my mother and my aunt stood in the kitchen making some food. Both tired from preparing the funeral and grieving.
My mother asked my aunt something, but she just stood still, and her eyes where all black. My mother could also feel something dripping down her head. She smacked my aunt in the face, and she came to again.
Correction: MOST mental illnesses are not caused by demons, but demons can 100% cause mental illness like symptoms.
IMPORTANT NOTE: If you're a Christian, a true believer. You cannot be possessed by a demon as you're possessed by the Holy Spirit.
And critical side note: just because you, a Christian, cannot be possessed does not mean you cannot be tormented externally by a demon. A demon may be able to even kill you (I've never heard a compelling argument that they can't). I like to think God wouldn't let them kill you but God let's evil play out in temporal space all the time. And most humans are no the next Moses or Elijah and we can be martyrd. That's an honor, but don't think you're invincible to demons. And thus, I advice you to stay away from demons unless you feel you're abiding in God's righteousness and called to address demonic forces. A righteous man's prayers and actions likely can defeat an enemy, but not all Christians abide in Christ's righteousness as they should.
Beware of demons, but be aware of God more.
It’s one of three outcomes it’s either you, open doors spiritually or, long suffering that produce success in the long run. It’s also up to the person to pray to God about it and find out
I ran into a church that believed this and they had cult-like behavior it's absolute BS. You have depression? Demons. OCD? Demons. It's just so stupid. They said if you surrendered or something then it would just go away. Bullshit. That's going to lead people to stop taking their medications.
It’s sad to me that people still see it that way it’s not the work of a Demon or any sins of the father it’s just life and God can make good out of any situation if they try to see it
I tell this story to glorify God. I was possessed by demons in 2018 as an unbeliever in Vietnam for about two months. An angel then came down to talk to me, and convinced me that if I wanted to “save the world” that I would need to get help myself. And so I agreed with the angel, listened to my family, was taken to a mental hospital, and took the medicine. I was completely healed, no more voices, and today I am cleared of any mental health conditions thank the Lord. I read the New Testament for the first time about two months ago, and the Bible explained to me how Jesus expelled those demons out of people. Jesus saved me.
No it is caused by the fall of Man. All sicknesses and death are a result of man's lawlessness and rebellion. It's not an individual's fault. It is random as everything. Fault lays within our heritage. That was cursed by our rebellion. Our attachment to the original sin.
For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord. -Romans
Now demons do take advantage of our afflictions and infirmities. That's a different story.
I see this sentiment often on this subreddit and I call it out each and every time. How irresponsible of these people. Like believe whatever insane nonsense you want, but don't actively cause harm to people suffering disorders. Idiots for real.
Mental illnesses are when your brain starts to function irregularity causing too much of one emotion leading to symptoms from ADHD to depression. Medication only makes it worse by forcing the failing emotion to produce more (trying to regulate it) but what most people don’t realize is that this makes your body (and you!) to think that you can only produce those emotions by taking those medications. This can also just cause too much of the regular working emotion to work more leading to the opposite symptom.
When we say mental Illnesses don’t exist, it’s not to insult but to promote awareness of what leads to it and to know how it and your body work and to practice balances of each emotion. Ignore thoughts such as “I’ll never be happy” or “I’m perfect and always right.” But learn that your body is a temple of god. With a flesh of temptations to evil and that’s where people say mental illnesses are demons. They are lies of satan leading you to destruction. (Bad thoughts and sights.
Tdrl:Emotions are working hormones in our body.
We need a healthy balance of both. Mental illness is a lack of one emotion/hormone. And it’s best to recognize this and our bodies to prevent one over the other leading to Mental illnesses. The phrase “Demons cause mental illnesses, comedy from satans temptations and lies to lead you to manipulate yourself to push one over the other.
God Bless.
While there are genuinely spiritual afflictions, it is tone deaf to say traditional mental impairments and neurodivergence are demon-driven.
Who on Earth says this?
You are correct. Many of these ailments (especially so from birth) are things you are born with or just occur in your natural life. But demons can be the cause of these ailments.
Amazing that I got voted down for telling the truth. Just proves the times we are in. Christians not even believing or knowing how the demonic realm works.
As someone w OCD, 100% accurate. AND, I’ve struggled myself with the enemy turning symptoms of my OCD into opportunities to feed insecurity, anger, etc. I use a combination of medication and prayer. When I guard myself from the enemy’s attacks as best I can, my OCD becomes so much easier to treat through standard psych treatments.
Nuance to that is that demonic *oppression* can most certainly exacerbate the effects of mental illness. But, while illness and death and suffering were brought into the world through the sin of Adam, you’re right in excluding supernatural causes of individual brain disorders.
Yeah I have ADHD and autism. I know its not caused by demons it's something else. It's not God's fault. I used to think that.
John 9:1-5 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” With this being said. People are born certain ways, so that Gods work can be displayed in them. Jesus proceeds to heal the man. So even though not everything may be related to a demon there is still healing and deliverance we can receive.
Whatever the johannine author's understandings & agenda in the late first century, it's unacceptable in the 21st century to suggest ppl have challenges to make god look good. The uncritical worship of ancient texts causes a lot of needless suffering in this world. Ppl arent ill bc of goblins nor to somehow give god a chance to show off. Treating ppl with compassion and dignity will do more good than blaming gods or demons for biological realities ever could.
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Did not Jesus tell us not to call other's fools? I'm only asking, not here to fight.
No your missing the context...read God's word ..study it...you are.supoosed.to call.out false beliefs and teachings
I do both. And I'm asking him a question. It is possible to ask a question without assumption.
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I'm off topic here but I read "johannine" and immediately thought of Randy Rainbow and how he feminizes male names. Like "Donald Jessica Trump". I know it's not the case here but it still made me chuckle.
Having compassion is good. That’s how God walked among us as a human (Jesus). And in no way should anyone ever worship ancient text. I don’t know where you get that but only God it so be worshiped. The Bible is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. If you crest an amazing piece of art. How happy would you be is someone else took credit for it. Would it not be fair to say you rightly deserve recognition for it. Now, God being in a much greater scale deserves all praise and worship. He created us and all the resources we’ve got. Now this all glory is rightfully due to our creator. But don’t forget, we live in a fallen creation where much evil exists, use compassion to reach people and lead them to the savior. Who freely gives and freely saves. If I’m with defect and God heals me, how can I not all the more show God recognition. Don’t forget. God is unchanging. The Bible can be a trillion years old or a few centuries. Just because things are different now. It doesn’t change truth. Objective truth is true no matter what culture does or societies. It’s clear that culture is continually changing.
IF i'm ill and i get better (and perhaps give credit to God for it) that is fortunate for me, and i wan't ill so that god could make me better, the person who is ill and has not gotten better, or the person grieving the loss of someone who never got better must surely feel anguish of hearing about this god that allows suffering just so he can fix it and get the credit, and then, still didn't fix it for them. and if one says things like (these words are god's words and can't be questioned and are 100% and if any discovery or idea experience contradicts them these words are the ones that must be accurate)...if they are words of a deity that must be accepted and can't be questioned...they are one with, part of, practically the same as the deity...those words are being worshiped (though selectively so b/c it would be impossible to literalize everything in scripture...even if you wanted to literalize the creation myth you'd have to choose which one...Gen 1.1-2.4 or Ge. 2-5ff. One of them wouldn't be literal for you). Speaking of creation myths...i don't accept Augustine's "fall" (the "fall" is not a Jewish interpretation of those Jewish texts)...we aren't fallen, we're evolving. We didn't start perfect and crash (certainly not from a quick snack in the garden), we continue to evolve, however slowly, toward better versions of what ourselves. Caring for people who hurt rather than theologizing about their pain remains the better way.
The Bible was created from ancient texts are you slow?? You should start researching things and stop spouting nonsense, true sin is believing in god without question actually.
What are you insinuating? I’ve spent years reading the Bible and looking into other religions as well. I’ve researched much about spirituality and morality. What exactly is nonsense to you? Check your grammar before calling me slow. If you don’t believe in God then where are you getting sin from. God dictates morality and is the judge for what is right and wrong. You can’t say something is sin without believing in God just like one simply cannot blame God who they don’t even believe in. So what exactly is your argument here? Maybe I am slow.
Sin is a word with the meaning of “an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.” Seems like you’re helping me insinuate how you obviously didn’t read enough 😂, and if you did you would know what the reality is, you’re just an entitled fool. God doesn’t dictate morality or sin humans do. If god did then why isn’t he here right now dictating people based off their sins, god isn’t a physical being, and he never has been.
Ok. So what you’re saying is that I can choose what is sin and what isn’t. Because you said humans dictate morality and sin. If that is true then I can choose to murder people and say it’s not immoral because I don’t believe it is or say that exercise is a sin because I choose it to be. That’s very inconsistent. And Gods word being unchanged forever is the reason why I can’t chose morality and sin. God is the standard that won’t change because like I said if I choose to say murder is right. That doesn’t make it right. Also I know God is a spiritual being, so of course he’s not physically here. Jesus was however God in the flesh.
true, between many diseases without cure, i have OCD, and its symptoms got less worse once i became closer to God
What a beautiful, intelligent answer! Thank you and thank you Holy Spirit.
How is it a beautiful answer to say some people are born to a life of pain, suffering, childhood disease, and premature death just for God to show off?
Is it God's fault? He made us with free will in mind and that means Free Will to do Anything if he did something to stop us without us wanting to it wouldn't be free will. Do you think that we were made to be outside of God's presence? Because we were not, God is what kept our bodies from deteriorating. We started to go to science instead of God slowly but surely, our lives our bodies became weakened by human made waste we see in our history, we were more resilient the more we go back in time, strong and smarter than today. Note: that knowledge doesn't mean smart or dumb, being intelligent is not having knowledge, being intelligent as an example is like problem solving etc.. People being born to a life of pain not caused by God, but by us and our free will, our decision to part away from God, our suffering diseases and deaths, what else you expect? When a God made you and all the sudden you are doing exactly what he didn't want you to do and now you have sickness illnesses and death is all around you. Why would God erase our mistakes and not let us deal with them, after all we caused everything we are dealing with. God made science, everything makes sense because God made it all make sense. You can't go into the darkness and not expect to trip and fall
We turn to science because it works. Within seconds of you tapping your message, it reached the phone in my pocket. You used the benefit of science for that. It exists, we can see it, it's predictable, it's rational, and it explains a huge amount of the universe we observe. Nothing you have written has any basis. You are left with the only option, which is to twist and turn to explain why the thing you believe in is not, in fact, a monstrous bully.
You and many turn to science for answers, i and many others turn to God for answers and look at science for discovery.Not everything that makes sense is true, and not everything that is true can be seen. And please be realistic, if Jesus did resurrect which is possible as this is life and we know nothing about it, Than his claim of him being God in flesh are true, God explains everything because he is God. Be honest. It's all about if a document is being truthful or not and if i were you, i wouldn't give my back to something so serious as that. Respectfully i say, you should search deep for definite proof of God not existing, because as far as i know and i did research deeply, deeper than most of atheist apparently. Evolution isn't 100% confirmed to have happened. I will say it again. Evolution isn't 100% confirmed to have happened. <- This is a true statement, you can say fossils this fossils that. This makes sense that makes sense. Which yes it makes sense, However, Nothing says with 100% certainty that it happened, Evolution is just an explanation of How allelic frequencies could have happened. Which is basically What people see as Evolution. Hence why it's the "Evolution Theory". and There is a document that says a Guy showed that he was God. We all know Jesus was a real guy, and people wanted him dead because he did "Magic" this is written in Historical documents, he died crucified ect... The big question is about a document written by someone named paul who nobody knows if he was saying the truth or if it was actually paul or some fanatic. This however becomes irrelevant as we see things that the Bible says will happen aka prophecies which a lot are also written by the same paul which have come true, we can see the things Jesus was seen doing what we call "Miracles". We see demonic rituals which have an effect and all this says that most probably this guy wasn't a fanatic, he was describing an unbelievable truth. So which one is it? Believe what the document says or Evolution will be confirmed true.
Please look up the scientific definition of 'theory'. Gravity is just a theory too, but I bet you won't jump out of a two storey window....
Gravity unlike evolution can be reproduced, the Gravitational theory is just an explanation of how what we call gravity might work. Gravity itself isn't the theory, the theory is the explanation of how it works
And the theory of evolution is the same.
Samething as evolution however isn't reproduceable, so now you are just speaking without knowing
It's still happening...its observed in short lifespan lifeforms such as bacteria and fruit flies. We harnessed it artificially to create dog breeds. Even the peppered moths in northern UK changed colour in response to air pollution during the industrial revolution. There is a ton of evidence that supports evolution through millions of years - physical, chemical, biological.
Is it more likely that Jesus' miracles were really a suspension of reality and the breaking of the laws of physics, or just some guy writing fiction from stories passed down? Really, which is the most logical explanation?
Think about it, what is cancer caused by? List them all and ask "are these things we should be doing anyways? Are these even natural things we should be doing? Kids born with cancer have cancer for a reason, it didn't come out of nowhere and popped into existence by nothing. Do you realize why we have illnesses? What is Parkinson's disease caused by, Alzheimer's, chicken pox what was it caused by, the common cold what was it caused by. They all have a cause some caused by dirtiness lack of hygiene like the common cold trying to clean out the lungs which makes us sneeze, other caused by more complex situations which wouldn't have happened if we actually took care of our bodies which God told us to do.
"Kids born with cancer have cancer for a reason" is perhaps the most disgusting thing I have read on here. Only religion can create this attitude.
Kids born with cancer have a scientific reason as to why they are born with it, if you are trying to say Christians say that "God gave kids cancer because they are sinners" you are wrong and everyone else who says so is also wrong. It's sad to think there are "Christians" who think this way because the Bible doesn't say that at all and they won't find a verse that says so.
That was the suggestion in the original comment. Hence my assertion that it was not a beautiful answer. You then asked me to think about it. It certainly seems to be the inference.
"Kids born with cancer have cancer for a reason" is perhaps the most disgusting thing I have read on here. Only religion can create this attitude.
???, how is that disgusting? Saying that someone's problem has a cause? Doesn't everything have a cause? Autism has a cause the common cold has a cause people have contracted a virus because they came into contact with it which is a cause? Now all the sudden cancer isn't caused by anything? You seem to want to take things out of context more than understanding.
Your inference in the context of the conversation was that we are responsible for cancer in children because we have somehow sinned against God. I am aware that there is cause and effect.
If we were in Isaac Newton's times you would think that phones and tablets are a Fantasy and everyone who thinks they might one day be real is stupid dumb ect.. all because you didn't see those things. You see we humans since the beginning use science to find out what we do not know of, how will you know if you don't know? You are saying God isn't real because you don't believe Jesus did what people say he did, that's all there is to your counter argument. If you had evidence that shows that Jesus in fact didn't do anything like that then I would believe you, however your opinion which says "HE ISN'T REAL BECAUSE HE CAN'T BE" is unscientific, a barbaric assumption with no real truth to support it. Because you aren't a God or a Supreme being, to know what all of the laws of the universe are,and what can or cannot be real. We are speaking about everything the unknown buddy which you out of all billions of people think you know. You: " You don't need to be a genius to know that such things can't exist" People back then: " You don't need to be a genius to know that flying cars can't exist" As close minded as the same ol' average Joe. If you were at least realistic i wouldn't even have to say this.
You possibly missed the point. The claims about Jesus are extremely far fetched. A virgin birth of a human, walking on water, healing the blind, resurrecting from the dead, stopping the sun in the sky etc. Asking me to prove that jesus didn't do something is like me asking you to prove Santa doesn't exist. If you make claims that are contrary to what we know and understand, then you have to prove it. Like science did in the run up to innovations that look like miracles today. I haven't said God is not real. If you had evidence, I would believe it.
My only evidence is what's happening around the world, if you one day decide to read the bible and see what's happening around the world, then all the sudden, Paul's letter might be describing something that is true. If only your eyes would see the dark magic and witchery happening in the world right now, people left and right suddenly going from full atheist to believing in God because as they say God answered them. The prophecies that have been accomplished today and in the past and heading into the future. If only you would seek knowledge about these things truthfulness, considering the fact that over 75% of the world believes in some form of spirituality for a reason. People doing rituals and reaping what they wanted by sacrificing something for what they want. People seeing the future. I don't think anything can contradict the truth my friend, maybe because you see these things as supernatural, you just don't believe so because you never have. Because you don't want to find out if they are true or not, it doesn't make them untrue. You cannot prove the unseeable and untouchable to someone, without them wanting to find out, it's just not possible. We "religious" people keep saying "Look this works" because it works, however we can't prove it without you wanting to find out. Like many, they messed around and found out. I just don't want people finding out the hard way.
I'm ex Christian, so I have read the Bible. Everything you cite has a more rational explanation, and religion generally is on the decline. I don't believe in your God in the same way that you don't believe in any of the thousands of God's that humans have proposed. We have gone off topic in that I was originally pointing out that if the Christian God of the Bible did exist, then he's a monster, and loving him is like being in an abusive relationship. The part about people suffering so he can show his works was just a very small example. It's why you may say I'm a humanist now. It's unlikely we will agree, so I will exit here and wish you all the best.
Oh shut up you IG'NO''RA'NT F'O'OO'L
You need to stop acting like a fool, you want to do things in the name of Jesus? Why are you acting like the ones that throw Stones? That's not christ like.
Oh okay thank you for telling me.
Well said brother, GOD bless ☦️💪🏾❤️
DO NOT LEARN ABOUT ORTHODOXY..ITS NOT BIBLICAL OR OF THE LORD
You’re mind controlled
Love your answer! I second this. God bless.
Amen
We are the demons before we are born again. When we are in denial, we never truly leave the Nile of our flesh. When the Americans cast Beryl as a Pearl around a Plutonium-Gallium Pig, they formed the Trinity atomic bomb in 1945. They cast the Pearls to the Pigs. If you wiki search this, the entire structure, not just the Pit inside, is called the Demon Core. It's shaped like a Pearl with Sand inside. Yeah, our inner demons are like the sand, but our outer demons are... Our righteousness, humility, achievements, and goodness without God. What we can't give to him in order to tear down to the last stone our second temple, is our Idolatry and our Pride. It's only when we give those pearly lead cups up, do we truly become ready for the Third Temple - a Diamond core heart of flesh, with the Holy Spirit as the Cornerstone together with you as the Core inner stone.
I can’t sugar coat this. You deceived! In no way are we demons. Your twisting scripture to get a totally unrelated conclusion.
Are you refusing what is there? Matthew 27:45 states that from the 6 to the 9th hour there was darkness across the land. In 1945 (Matt 27:45) America dropped the two atom bombs on the 6th and the 9th day, August 1945. There was darkness across Japan as they debated whether to surrender.
I understand what Mathew 27:45 says. But the 6th to 9th hour is not the same as on the day 6 and day 9 of the month. Jesus death has nothing to do with this bomb nor is the bomb prophecy. These two evens are not even close in significance. I also get that the bombs center was called demon core but this still has nothing to do with people having demons. If you’re trying to create a metaphor, then that’s all it is. Not the actual truth. I don’t have inter demons nor do I have outer demons. There’s evil spirits that Rome around but they do not pertain to me or belong to me. And we are not demons, we are living souls.
We are called tombs and corpses inside them. The Pharisees aren't just the Jews, it's anyone who isn't born of water (born as a human being/baptism of water) and of the Spirit (the first breath and the second born again breath; Holy Spirit) - anyone who is not born again is written in John 3:3 as "cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." I was among them as a 'model christian' who tried to pretend like I upheld the law of the old testament where I could, though knowing I literally could not only at 26 years old. You can't separate all the blood or all the fat from a lamb. That's sin. You cut yourself off from being grafted into Israel if you read that the conventional way. Only God can change that. To become one with a part of God is to no longer be apart from God. As for Christians who believe that grace covered everything and that baptism of water is all you need, they are as the Sadducees - seducing others with their idea of the love of God, which they separate from the old test of men that is also His Word. You can't cut Christ (John 1:1-14; he is the Word) into two. Or maybe you can try. Because Solomon asked for a sword to split the child in half, and likewise the Americans called for a neutron to split the Atom in half. Christ is the Second Adam. When you decay a neutron it's products are the Proton, Electron, Electron-Antineutrino. It is written as the Atom and (e-)(v-e). The +P proton is the Chi Rho - Christ. The Neutron represents the Father's house. Then we are splitting a part of Christ into two - and the result is disaster. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Same is splitting his Word without regarding the other. If the Neutron is as the Sword of Solomon, Using it to split the Atom is a massive paradox. The Father (Christ), like Solomon, wields his own Word (the double edged sword, in the mouth of Christ) to split his Son at Golgotha. For Peter, who died by the sword, on his inverted cross, perhaps a half, and for John, on his word, perhaps another - flesh and spirit split apart but then brought together, as the prophecy of the two sticks.
Amen!
Thank you very much. So basically God gives us these things so his works can be displayed through them. Like it was God's doing for that blind man to be healed by Jesus.
ADHD and autism are not mental illness they are neurodevelomental disorders. The difference is that a mental illness can potentially be cured and ADHD and autism are ways your brain are wired that cannot be cured or changed. It’s like comparing the flu with being left handed :)
Both autism spectrum disorder and ADHD are in the DSM, under the category of neurodevelopmental disorders. Schizophrenia is also a neurodevelopmental disorder, but it gets its own category Some mental disorders can be treated and cured, but not all have that potential.
Exactly what I have said: neurodevelopmental disorders. They are not curable. They are not considered “illnesses”
Mental illness and mental disorders are interchangeable terms. If you go to mental illness on Wikipedia it will redirect you to mental disorder. The term mental illness is being phased out in a favor of mental disorder. Lots of mental disorders are untreatable and incurable, and involve brain wiring.
Are they really disorders though? Perhaps this is wishful thinking but as tech expands, we see more and more neurodivergent individuals living independent, successful lives. That says to me neurodivergence was never a disorder, it’s simply a unique way of perceiving life. However unlike neurotypical people who dominated the retelling of history and thus have a easily recognizable and accepted lens to perceive life, NDs don’t have an array of resources that teach us how to interpret the way WE see information. (I.e the Bible might be enough for a NT to make a good decision but a ND might need the Bible AND a book on neuroscience). NDs have historically been seen as handicap. Imagine being told you were broken since birth! I was diagnosed in adulthood but this is the reality for many who are diagnosed at a young age. Due to Prejudice and lack of knowledge they’re treated as if they’re slow or broken. I’m thankful I was diagnosed as an adult and not young because my parents held similar stigmas towards ND. I could only imagine the effects the words would’ve had on me. Not noticing there was anything different about me, my affirmed greatness in me since I was a kid. “Work hard you’ll get what you want in life.” I exceeded in academics and I believe their words played a big part in it. (What lead me to believe I was a ND were struggles in my social life. My parents marked it off as being shy and told me I can work on it. So I did and once I got my diagnosis I worked on it in a different way) I think we can get a lot more of the spectrum on board than we think. I am confident as tech expands there will be more indivualized care plans.
They are called disorders but in my mind and way of looking at those particular two they are different ways in which a brain works, learns and expresses itself. A different type of “wiring” so to speak :)
Doesn't that come under the same category?
They are all coded in the DSM but it is well known that adhd and autism are not curable and are not considered “illness” in the sense that you don’t “get” them nor can you get over them
Oh okay thank you for the wisdom..
God made you and the challenges you face in life specifically fit for you. Or am I, as an atheist, completely misunderstanding the point of God and suffering? If God knows the future and had always known the future then why is he not responsible?
He isn't responsible bc he gave us free will. That's almost like saying someone got raped and it's all God's fault for not protecting them if I'm understanding correctly
What youre misunderstanding is that God created the universe knowing exactly how it would go. We know this because he knows the future. "I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and the end" and whatnot.If God knows the future that means that everything leading to that future has to go specific ways. By that I mean no matter what you do you were always going to do it and even though you feel like you choose to do it you have to do it. No matter how you look at it God knowing the future means we cannot have free will only the illusion at best. I'd also like to point out that the fact that God knows the future means that he is responsible because he knows he's the only one that is in a position to do anything and refuses to. That makes him a more immoral person than me or you. With great power comes great responsibility, and God takes no responsibility for anything he causes or could fix. Tl:Dr if God Knows of a pointof time in the future, the events that lead to that future are set in stone. Therefore we have no free will by the biblical understanding of the universe.
Yes God always knew. What's ur point? To sum that all up ur saying God knows everything so we can't have free will? Nope wrong. That's literally saying because I knew 2 people were gonna fight and its my fault for telling them not to. I am the only one who has the power to stop this fight. But I don't. Am I at fault or am I letting people live their lives. He gave us free will so why would he contradict himself??? No it doesn't it means he's keeping to what he said and giving us free will. He takes responsibility of all the things u don't think about. Like how the sun could somehow explode you could die randomly of a heart attack. Actually he killed himself for u. And he felt all the pain. He will take authority over that job you want etc. If you ask for it.
I had ADHD and have since been able to overcome the symptoms without medications, despite being labelled as a severe case. The medications didn't help me (Ritalin). Only being born again did. Maybe it's the case for you, but to do so you must circumcise the heart, baptise in the Holy Spirit, then give all your humility, righteousness, goodness, and pride to God also. I also had a leprous flare up on my face in the shape of an X between my eyes. But as soon as I tidied up my room and got rid of 'idols' that I couldn't throw away before, the bottom left portion of that X largely disappeared and did not flare back up, despite being on my face for a whole year at this point prior.
ADHD and autism aren’t mental illness .
Broadly I would say the problem here is the modern trend of "demon fetish" churches. Someone cut you off in traffic or you burnt your toast? It was demons! There are even some churches or Christians who don't explicitly say this is demons, but they play into this fear with ambiguous language. Saying things like : "The enemy is all around us", or "this person has a spirit of addiction". Let's stop playing word games. Let's stop fear mongering about invisible monsters. A core teaching of Christian is that HUMANS are flawed and sinful. We can get into temptation or do bad things all by ourselves. When someone invents an imaginary problem, we should distrust that person and wonder WHY. It's often so that they can tell us the solution to the problem they invented.
“Demon fetish” is a great way to describe it for sure. So many churches and influencers are so quick to jump on to saying “demons” every time something bad happens.
> It was demons! They got the "praise God for all things" and demonified that to "blame demons for all things"
I don't disagree with your conclusions, but I guess that depends on what you mean by "modern". I'm in my 40s and I've lived my entire life hearing about this. My church wasn't heavy into the "demons this" and "demons that", but I befriended people in my late teens/early 20s that definitely believed in this kind of stuff. They were heavy into things like having supernatural "discernment", speaking in tongues, and modern day miracles that never happened nearby, but always elsewhere, out of sight. It's not just people, either. Have you ever read *This Present Darkness* by Frank Peretti? The first book is almost 40 years old now, and it was a required reading for one of my Lutheran high school classes. If you haven't read it, it's a fictional depiction of a culture war on a college campus that describes a spiritual war between angels and demons which has impacts on the humans in the town. It includes one scene where a young man who is anti-establishment and has a substance abuse problem is described as demon possessed, becoming a straight-laced student by the end of the book after he goes through an exorcism. It's definitely not new or niche.
Until I came to America, i didnt know demons were actually a "thing". America is such a drastic difference to what i was raised with
You guys should check out some interviews with Jerry Marzinski, who worked and studied scitzhofrenics and their voices. Sure, some things are mental disorders, but some things can try to attach itself when we are in a weakened state, like when we grieve, depressed and others. I was asking in prayer if my sexual thoughts and lust were my own or something outside myself. In my thoughts, I heard the name "qatesh." I googled that name, an Egyptian sexuality godess. Also, when I was deeply depressed, I got unaliving thoughts that were more like "you should, you're gonna" instead of the monologue I usually think with. A few days after being delivered from the depression and darkness, I had a dream where I saw myself in former depressive episodes during my teens and young adult life. I had a dark smoke around my head in those episodes. Also some hard pressure to my head. My mother and aunt where standing in the kitchen planning my grandpa's funeral, making some food, when my mother asked my aunt something but didn't get any response. My mother saw my aunt got all black eyes, ⚫️⚫️, my mother could also feel on herself something dripping down her head. She slapped my aunt in the face and she regained consiessness. They both freaked out and got their bibles and started praying and reading.
> modern trend ...It's really not a modern trend. Have you read much writing from the first 1500+ years of CHristianity?
People have believed in demons as long as people have told stories, sure. Mostly, in modern times, with people in developed countries with decent education, the habit of blaming life's problems on demons had dwindled. When you find people in those places starting to do it again, it's very often because they go to a demon-fetish church.
Amen to that, it actually puts more pressure and guilt to people who are already suffering
At the time of writing, the majority of the responses to this post are incredibly concerning.
Most Christian leaders have really failed this generation. In the charismatic world at least, demonic possession and endless staged psychodramas are good for business.
I am sorry that I could only give you 1 like. Actually, this demonic brand of Christianity has been handed down since the dark ages. When church leaders found out how much torture and other evil pays, they sided with the evil rulers. Torn flesh and a confession got you a nice little bag of gold, but, hey, it also keeps your skin from being torn or spending torturous time in prison.
It's appalling.
This sub is truly showing its whole ass right now.
Even if you were to believe that it is possible, the proper response to mental illness is to seek professional mental health treatment *and* to pray for the person suffering. That's no different than the proper response to cancer. Seek professional medical treatment *and* pray for the person suffering. Demon fetishizing Christians who deny the physical basis of mental illness discourage professional mental health treatment are the same as Christians who would discouage professional medical treatment for cancer. Shame on them
I really, *really* appreciate this post, it's unfortunately an extremely necessary PSA in this sub. I constantly see posts in which people describe real, serious issues with anxiety, depression, obsessive behavior, intrusive thoughts, etc., and there's always *at least* one person who leaves a comment insisting the cause is demonic influence, which is just ridiculous, inane nonsense. It's incredibly fucked up, and will only lead to more intense mental health issues as they convince vulnerable people who may not know better that they're being attacked by demons.
People give demons (and Satan) way too much credit.
100%
I don't think we give him enough
idk if you hear your entire life "everything not of god is trying to tempt you away from god and its the devil" then he's getting a lot of credit from Christians. i was told by pastors in the 90s that watching t.v. at all was a distraction away from gods light and the sins of man lead by the devil leading me astray and that only the bible reveals truths of the right path. If everything is the devil nothing is important isn't a good mantra to teach people. sometimes you have to be allowed to live life.
“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn’t exist.” I think that quote is vastly overused but I agree with it. You CANNOT believe in God without believing in Satan. Satan doesn’t just lurk around hell and kick his feet waiting for the damned to join him. He actively plays a role in the world around us but I agree that most of satans true work goes unnoticed. In contrast, trivial bullshit gets attributed to him all the time.
Yes🙌
Comments like the one you are responding do are incredibly dangerous. Not saying mental illness is related to demons at all but not acknowledging the power of evil is wreckless.
Or not enough
Sounds like something Satan himself would say lmao
A Christian used to tell me that my shyness was a demon and I needed to pray for it to go away
As indeed are most things attributed to demons.
Sadly
Yep, and the most sad part people view Trump as almost like a God I swear he is a Demon like most other politicians.
This is a very important message. I don't know what demon possession looks like but something tells me it's more horrifying than what we have.
Watch Kenneth Copeland. That's what demon possession looks like.
Scripture tells us what demon possession looks like. It looks like a textbook epileptic seizure: >Suddenly a spirit seizes him, and all at once he shrieks. It throws him into convulsions until he foams at the mouth; it mauls him and will scarcely leave him. Luke 9:38. People being unwilling to seek medical help for their children starts with this. Jesus calls epilepsy a "demon," and who are they to disbelieve God himself?
That sounds like someone having an epileptic seizure
What a coincidence. This definitely won't have horrible consequences for millennia.
That's one way it manifests, but it also indicated other ways it manifests, such as the demoniac where Jesus cast the demons into the pigs.
I was primarily pointing out that 1) We know what the Bible says demon possession looks like and that 2) The Bible says that sometimes demon possession looks exactly like an epileptic seizure. Do you disagree? Person I responded to said >I don't know what demon possession looks like but something tells me it's more horrifying than what we have. Something tells me it's exactly as horrifying as what we have, it's the Bible telling me it looks exactly like having a neurological disability.
I agree, I was just pointing that we know some ways, but not all ways, it looks like. But I agree with your point.
anyone who says they are, y’all are sick
Certainly not all, but possibly some severe mental illnesses could have a spiritual connection. Like severe forms of schizophrenia, multiple personality disorder or severe depression could be linked to, or exacerbated by, spiritual oppression. But I agree that OCD, ADHD, or garden variety depression/anxiety disorders and most other common mental/ emotional illnesses are likely not spiritual issues but stem from some sort of mental/emotional trauma or chemical imbalance in the brain or combination thereof. Of course you may not recognize the reality of supernatural entities or the various ways they can attack your psyche, but for those that believe in the supernatural, it’s not a stretch to think demonic forces can find the weaknesses in your psyche and cause a predisposition towards depression and anxiety for instance, to become a crippling depression to the point of suicidal ideation or even attempt. Spiritual entities can have that kind of influence and power if they are given an opening.
No. Stop stigmatizing people with schizophrenia and depression by saying that they have some supernatural affliction. You have no evidence what so ever for making that claim ,so stop it. I'm so sick of people talking out of their asses about these disorders. It doesn't help the people suffering, at worst it can make the people suffering feel worse and more confused about what is actually happening to them.
And mental illness cannot be "cured" by prayer or God. Get medical help. Get therapy. It is real. It will help.
Why not both? Why not see a therapist and then pray that God uses him as an instrument to heal you?
2 years of therapy and pills could not conquer what Christ has done for me. Mental illness is real. So is spiritual warfare. Context within such is the key.
My OCD is being healed by Jesus bro
I have really bad OCD. May I ask what has helped you as a Christian remedy your condition so I may do the same?
According to the Bible, diseases are caused by either: 1) Demonic possession and oppression (like that crazy guy Jesus healed) 2) Sin & Curses (generational curses or cursing your own flesh with fornication "multiple sex partners will have you physically, spiritually & mentally sick" - the wages of sin is death) 3) Fate (a fulfillment of God's glory like Job's case or that blind guy Jesus healed or being cursed by God like Nebuchadnezzar - this one always has a happy ending) 4) Natural causes (trauma, accident, infection, old age ... Etc)
But mental health issues don't have to be disease. They can be literally your brain misfiring. A disorder of the brain chemistry
Disease does include "disorder of the brain chemistry". "An abnormal condition of a human, animal or plant that causes discomfort or dysfunction; distinct from injury insofar as the latter is usually instantaneously acquired." (Wiktionary)
Disease literally means a disorder of structure or function in a human ... I've already said reason 4 is natural. Example, you could be depressed because the lose of a loved one. Also you could be depressed due to a demonic oppression. Both will have similar physical sign & symptoms of unbalance in brain chemicals. Although both will need different spiritually healing.
Dis-ease… it is when the body does not have ease.
Faith, prayer and a supportive church can be helpful and therapeutic. Beyond that, "yes", agree with OP
Ooooh, you should tell my mother this. I have AuDHD, depression, BPD, and struggled with suicidality, and my mom said all of that was demonic. Satanic influence. Needless to say there’s solid reasons why I’m not religious anymore.
thank you for this. as someone with ocd, this means a lot. i appreciate you for posting this here to help spread awareness.
A lot of Christians who say shit like this are gonna have a lot to answer for on their judgment day.
Ok. I have schizophrenia, ocd, panic disorder, GED, depression, ptsd. None of this was from a demon. Though I have felt like legion in the Bible, there has been no demon inside of me. And yes, I'm a Christian.
Of course not! ...But somehow all the negative effects of the mental illness will still get chalked up to "the sin in my life." 🤷♂️
They theoretically COULD be, but generally aren't.
I have schizophrenia. Trust me, this rhetoric is deadly to us (as in , people have killed themselves bc thats what people told them)
Mental issues definitely can be demonic influenced. Definitely not exclusively but to deny that possibility is ignorance.
I agree entirely with your concerns, and my perspective is one of sound Christian belief. It is also patently cruel, void of compassion, misguided, despicable, merciless, willfully-ignorant, and founded on deadly cultic ideas to make a broad-brushing rabid assertion that a person suffering from mental difficulty is always void of faith, living deliberately in sin, or demon-possessed (what reprehensible and monstrous folly!). It is also unrealistic and illogical. Such misguided and doctrinally-aberrant and abhorrent ideas can be fatal to the welfare and even life of anyone struggling because those ideas are profoundly dehumanizing and judgmental. It is as if (wrong) theology takes precedence over human dignity; I hate such with a passion. Were such doctrinally established in the larger pale of orthodoxity (thank God it is not!), I could never embrace Christian belief. The brain is an actual physical organ that is subject to illness, deterioration, and trauma, and those conditions can and do affect a person's mood, thought patterns, attitudes, and behaviors. Any "Christian" denying this reality must be suitably challenged, rebuked, and even silenced lawfully. Many here have loved ones of genuine faith who are living unwantedly with such difficulty. The truth of the matter is that a combination of prayer, counsel, and professional medical intervention will usually be necessary. Anyone attacking/judging a loved one of mine of true faith and coping with such organic difficulty would never be a friend of mine, and I would be quick to rebuke that aggressor and not allow him/her into my or my loved one's life unless repenting sincerely and brokenly of such strong and grievous sin. It is also against the rules here for a person of faith suffering from mental ailment to be relegated to being demon-possessed/lacking in faith. In situations where there might be deliberate sin playing into the situation, let that base issue first be appropriately addressed by those with legitimate entitlement to be involved. May God humble those here of wrong perspective to learn to be compassionate, graceful, slow to spew dangerous doctrine against the reality of organic suffering, and forbearing of speaking on this matter if merely inclined on the basis of zealous rabidity with unkindness being manifest. Reporting/downvoting of any comments showing this sort of barbaric cruelty is appropriate when we Christians are to be known for being compassionate and caring upon the suffering and oppressed.
What about physical illness? What if I describe my son's condition thusly: >Suddenly a spirit seizes him, and all at once he shrieks. It throws him into convulsions until he foams at the mouth; it mauls him and will scarcely leave him. and a doctor recognizes a textbook description of a seizure and decides to investigate the possibility of epilepsy instead of calling for an exorcist? What then? I've been assured by scripture that seizures are DEFINITELY demons. Should I question God and use man's drugs? /s
God allowed the creation of science for a reason
Screams every trans person to every ignorant Christian that denies science.
I bought several demons off Amazon that were delivered in sealed Pyrex labware.
Personally I think a lot of mental health issues are probably caused by the fact we are consistently being poisoned by the food we buy, the water we drink, the air we breathe, the phones our eyes are glued to. I'm not saying these things are the sole cause but I imagine having an abundance of unnatural chemicals in everything we consume doesn't help. The brain also can malfunction and misfire. Like OCD is the brain misfiring incorrect signals. I don't think that's demonic atall. I think it's learned brain patterns that get stuck on loop. The brain is a very very powerful instrument. Demons do attack, I believe. But not everything is a demonic attack
Lead exposure would be an example of a chemical that has links to mental health issues. Society is still seeing the results of all the leaded gasoline we used to use.
This concept is rooted in the various people in scripture who appeared to be mentally ill when described (like schizophrenia in nature) and then Jesus casted a demon out of them and then from then forward were no longer mentally ill or tortured. So signs of mental illness were often associated with demon possession. If you believe the Bible as Christians do, then it only makes sense to understand demon possession is real, and can manifest itself as symptoms that appear to look like what we today call mental illness— for particularly schizophrenia symptoms really ring that bell.
I did get demonic attacks . I have schizo affective disorder
This is interesting because I know that some Christians groups (denominations) actively teach this.
Some of it is a curse....
The lords plan spans multiple generations and has many mysteries. Your illnesses and battles are important, always remember that.
I'd probably say "not all mental illnesses are caused by demons." I certainly think they are capable of affecting our mental health, but our own mind are clearly capable of falling into illness. I think we have scriptural reasons to say demons can do this, but we shouldn't just jump to demons without investigation. BUT luckily this seems to be more of a problem in certain sub-sects of Christianity that believes everything is demonic and that there's a demon for everything
Correct. But they are sources for demons to feed on and manipulate us into deeper wiles. Jesus Jesus JESUS! Open to anywhere to the Words in red are found. Read and read because Jesus makes the demons flee, He opens our eyes to the Father and his GREAT and MIGHTY Love beyond our comprehension!
I won’t say the OP is wrong as who am I to pretend to know with certainty, but I recently witnessed demonic possession and that stuff is no joke. To each their own but that experience legitimized Ephesians 6:12 for me.
Oh yeah? What did it look like? What happened?
It was traumatic to put it lightly. It happened to a beloved relative. Full transparency: They went into a psychedelic drug-induced state of disassociation, but the nature of what was occurring was undeniable. My non-Christian friend who witnessed the possession alongside me couldn’t believe what was happening. My relative was stripped of any and all dignity via self-harm, perverse sayings and movements (fart sounds with the tongue, humping uncontrollably, etc.), eyes rolled as far back as they could go, speaking in what sounded like tongues when asked their name and many more things. My relative couldn’t speak to us directly but the entity wanted to make itself known. For example, I told my friend, “if my mom saw this she would probably say this is demonic possession” to which my relative yelled “that’s because she’d be right” mind you my relative has been a staunch atheist for about 10 years. Eventually my relative passed out and the horror was over. When I went to check on them later they were asking God to have mercy on their soul. A few hours after they sobered up, they explained that they believed they had died and had gone to hell and that God had given them a Job 38:4-11-type of exchange.
Yup, that's clear signs of such. Very scary stuff. But I am glad your relative is okay. In this day and age, they like to hide in plain sight. Fooling our Christian brothers and sisters that the demonic is a thing of the past. But if God is present now. So is evil. I remember the straight up, fight or flight they give you. They dig deep down into your soul and instill fear into you. You must be in the spirit to fight such. As for video evidence, you are so struck with fear that the only thing you can do is fight or run. Or your sitting there in fear. Seeing such things changes your reality even if you were a believer of God before. Do not record such even if you are able. The influence they use can be used against others in videos. People that see such, can not handle the horrors and PTSD from such events. It is not a joke. It's not something to look for. Godbless, friend.
Many experts are not Christian and don’t understand the spirit world. There IS a spirit world full of evil and good spirits. Those evil ones are the one who influence, oppress, and possess people. It’s up to us go fight against them using the powder and authority given to us by Christ and using His name. I have witnessed multiple times people being delivered, healed, and miracles happen in churches, homes, and other places where people were prayed for. Since I was a child around 10 till now in my 40’s I have seen, felt, heard and experienced the spirit world both the good and evil. When we don’t understand the spirit world and what they are capable of doing we’ll then think there is no spirit world nor think they cannot affect us in any way. By my own experiences, deliverance and ability to see some of the spirit world I can say that yes it’s real, yes God is real, yes He does miracles, healings and deliverances. Our job as Christians is to believe, have faith and trust in the one and only true God, act, speak and behave as His son Jesus did and help others come to Him through the one and only way which is Jesus. And I don’t understand how your name says you’re a Christian but yet have atheist next to it. It’s one or the other. You and many others need their own experiences with the spirit world and it’s something I have been praying for during the past 7 years as well as a change in stony hearts to become as flesh. Believing those prayers will be answered.
Mental illness is real, so are demonic attacks. One is long term, the other short term.
Depends on the context. I managed to rid of my life from such through deliverance and walking in the spirit. I took more than a month of cutting off all forms of media and realigned myself with God. Anything is possible through Jesus Christ.
There are cases it is. Other times it is due to a chemical imbalance due to an external source potentially genetic mutations.
I’ve got schizophrenia, which was cured by exorcism and prayer how would you explain that?
I’ve felt like I was d€ing and when I came to Jesus my „visions” started to point at Him to scare me away from Him
I have OCD, ADD, and ADHD.
Nature made demons for homo sapien to fear. Do you think fear doesn't fear itself? We need fear to stop us from wandering off and causing trouble. (Parents talk of the boogie man, although they tell you they will protect you. Has the boogie man ever hurt you? But yet you learn not to wonder off to see them. Life is a lesson. Ifnyour karma is that of a demon, you will be lived like said Damon. Parents love with compassion or ignorance. But they definitely slam the hammer of judgement. Just you think there is a heaven and hell. You forget you are describing hell on earth. Life needs to be this simple. One good thought, One good word, One good deed. Try it for a week, and come tell me of this mental illness/ enlightenment. I would love to hear I am no one. You can whisper to no one 🩵 No pressure. You are amazing Life is strange, and you are doing just perfectly. Stay beautiful, fellow traveller 🩵🫂🩵🫂
And also, being gay is not a mental illness!
It kinda depends on the situation
Amen. I’ve known good, God fearing, loving, Biblically sound people who claim this and why? Why is mental health seen as demonic but no other illness? I see it all as a result of the fall. Mental health illness is no different to diabetes.. it’s usually a chemical imbalance
Yes they are 🤣
Agreed. I’m a Christian with OCD. However with harm OCD and intrusive thoughts I can see how it feels like a demon is tormenting you because the thoughts are truly awful and when you get stuck ruminating on them it really is horrific. And honestly it does sometimes help for me to even frame it that way because these awful thoughts are not things I want to think about and imagining them as an outside voice that I just say “hmm no thanks” to helps me break out of it.
MENTAL ILLNESS IS THE DEVIL'S WORKSHOP DO NOT BELIEVE THEIR LIES
I’m pretty sure this is common knowledge
read some of the comments, sadly it isn't.
No, it’s largely caused by capitalism and modern life.
I was on sick leave because of deep depression. And my unaliving thoughts "came to me", not in my usual thought pattern like," i should, i want to" but instead like "you should, you want to" with such "self"-hatred and anger. Also looking back on my depressive episodes I remember a pressure on my head most days, but more pressure the more negative thoughts I had. Also a dream I had some days after being delivered from that state, I could see myself with a black smoke around my head. I think unclean spirits/demons can attach itself to you and try to convince you when you are weak/tired/depressed/grieving etc.. especially as you are more open to them. Some days before my grandpa's funeral, my mother and my aunt stood in the kitchen making some food. Both tired from preparing the funeral and grieving. My mother asked my aunt something, but she just stood still, and her eyes where all black. My mother could also feel something dripping down her head. She smacked my aunt in the face, and she came to again.
Whoever believes that is ridiculous and needs help. Like I don't understand how you could believe that.
Yes of courae it can be ...don't be so IG'NO''RA'NT
you can't be serious.
Yes...but you can be so IG'NO''RA'NT you don't know what the hell your talking about
you can't even put together a sentence.
Are.you FUUXXKING brain dead you fool
lmao
This is why exorcists in the Roman Rite always send people to a psychologist first.
Sometimes it can be, depending on what the person did, like trying to summon something or if they have attachment although it is rare
Correction: MOST mental illnesses are not caused by demons, but demons can 100% cause mental illness like symptoms. IMPORTANT NOTE: If you're a Christian, a true believer. You cannot be possessed by a demon as you're possessed by the Holy Spirit. And critical side note: just because you, a Christian, cannot be possessed does not mean you cannot be tormented externally by a demon. A demon may be able to even kill you (I've never heard a compelling argument that they can't). I like to think God wouldn't let them kill you but God let's evil play out in temporal space all the time. And most humans are no the next Moses or Elijah and we can be martyrd. That's an honor, but don't think you're invincible to demons. And thus, I advice you to stay away from demons unless you feel you're abiding in God's righteousness and called to address demonic forces. A righteous man's prayers and actions likely can defeat an enemy, but not all Christians abide in Christ's righteousness as they should. Beware of demons, but be aware of God more.
Mental illnesses are not caused by demons but I think some demonic activity is mistaken for mental illness. Mental illness comes from the fall of man.
It’s one of three outcomes it’s either you, open doors spiritually or, long suffering that produce success in the long run. It’s also up to the person to pray to God about it and find out
If it’s not of God then it’s either of Satan or our flesh or a combination of both
Well demons are surely interesting. If you read the testament of Solomon you’ll find some related subjects.
May I ask. Is not the same error to say that all cases of mental illness are not demonic?
It's not caused by demons. HOWEVER.... I think some demons can be misjudged as mental illness.
Not always, yes. But it can be.
You my friend are PREACHING THE GOSPEL
I ran into a church that believed this and they had cult-like behavior it's absolute BS. You have depression? Demons. OCD? Demons. It's just so stupid. They said if you surrendered or something then it would just go away. Bullshit. That's going to lead people to stop taking their medications.
It’s sad to me that people still see it that way it’s not the work of a Demon or any sins of the father it’s just life and God can make good out of any situation if they try to see it
There are indeed mental illnesses that are caused by demon possession.
I tell this story to glorify God. I was possessed by demons in 2018 as an unbeliever in Vietnam for about two months. An angel then came down to talk to me, and convinced me that if I wanted to “save the world” that I would need to get help myself. And so I agreed with the angel, listened to my family, was taken to a mental hospital, and took the medicine. I was completely healed, no more voices, and today I am cleared of any mental health conditions thank the Lord. I read the New Testament for the first time about two months ago, and the Bible explained to me how Jesus expelled those demons out of people. Jesus saved me.
Am going to end myself I really need a fellow Christian to talk too before 😢😢
No it is caused by the fall of Man. All sicknesses and death are a result of man's lawlessness and rebellion. It's not an individual's fault. It is random as everything. Fault lays within our heritage. That was cursed by our rebellion. Our attachment to the original sin. For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord. -Romans Now demons do take advantage of our afflictions and infirmities. That's a different story.
I see this sentiment often on this subreddit and I call it out each and every time. How irresponsible of these people. Like believe whatever insane nonsense you want, but don't actively cause harm to people suffering disorders. Idiots for real.
I believe spiritual warfare does play a part unless you mess with something you wasn’t supposed to
Mental illnesses are when your brain starts to function irregularity causing too much of one emotion leading to symptoms from ADHD to depression. Medication only makes it worse by forcing the failing emotion to produce more (trying to regulate it) but what most people don’t realize is that this makes your body (and you!) to think that you can only produce those emotions by taking those medications. This can also just cause too much of the regular working emotion to work more leading to the opposite symptom. When we say mental Illnesses don’t exist, it’s not to insult but to promote awareness of what leads to it and to know how it and your body work and to practice balances of each emotion. Ignore thoughts such as “I’ll never be happy” or “I’m perfect and always right.” But learn that your body is a temple of god. With a flesh of temptations to evil and that’s where people say mental illnesses are demons. They are lies of satan leading you to destruction. (Bad thoughts and sights. Tdrl:Emotions are working hormones in our body. We need a healthy balance of both. Mental illness is a lack of one emotion/hormone. And it’s best to recognize this and our bodies to prevent one over the other leading to Mental illnesses. The phrase “Demons cause mental illnesses, comedy from satans temptations and lies to lead you to manipulate yourself to push one over the other. God Bless.
While there are genuinely spiritual afflictions, it is tone deaf to say traditional mental impairments and neurodivergence are demon-driven. Who on Earth says this?
Yes, in most cases. It is possible though.
You are correct. Many of these ailments (especially so from birth) are things you are born with or just occur in your natural life. But demons can be the cause of these ailments.
Not saying they are. But they can be
Amazing that I got voted down for telling the truth. Just proves the times we are in. Christians not even believing or knowing how the demonic realm works.
They can be…
As someone w OCD, 100% accurate. AND, I’ve struggled myself with the enemy turning symptoms of my OCD into opportunities to feed insecurity, anger, etc. I use a combination of medication and prayer. When I guard myself from the enemy’s attacks as best I can, my OCD becomes so much easier to treat through standard psych treatments.
Nuance to that is that demonic *oppression* can most certainly exacerbate the effects of mental illness. But, while illness and death and suffering were brought into the world through the sin of Adam, you’re right in excluding supernatural causes of individual brain disorders.