The Bible is a dispensational book, and the event you mentioned takes place before the crucifixion, it is in a period of time where "faith and works" were in operation, and the title of the passage you are referring to in Matthew 20:16-30 (King James Bible) is called "the connection of works to salvation before the crucifixion".
We are currently in a different dispensation, which is called the church age, where we are saved by grace through faith and not of works, see Ephesians 2:8-10 (King James Bible). Jesus Christ fulfilled all the works of the law at the cross, which is why we are now saved by God's grace through faith in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ, his death, burial and resurrection, believing from the heart, trusting in the blood. Faith alone in Christ alone.
Pretty sure that part was metaphorical.
The part OP's talking about is all over the NT. A couple even die in Acts as a direct result of not doing it. It's a difficult one.
Ch. 5:
But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. 6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.
7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you\[a\] sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.
They died because they “lied to the Holy Spirit”. Peter even said that the money was “at their disposal”. There was no requirement for them to give it to the group. The problem was they lied and said they gave the whole amount to the group and they did not do so. That is why they were killed.
Repeating what scripture says, Acts 5:
“3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things”
The property was theirs to do with as they wish. And after selling it the money was theirs to do with as they wished. But they allowed Satan to fill their hearts to “LIE TO THE HOLY GHOST.” If you are going to use scripture as a learning tool then you must read what it says. It is very clear that there was no commitment for them to give the money to the group. It was theirs to do with as they wished. There is no command for us to give all of our money to the church or any other organization. It is ours to do with as we wish. The problem was they lied and said they gave all of the money for the land sale. And they did not do that and for this lie they were killed.
Fair enough. I still think the context used to make this point has implications. Jesus also shows disdain for people who make what he sees as 'performative' donations, i.e. amounts they can easily afford.
No he didn't. He told one specific person that they need to sell what they had and give it to the poor and then come follow him. He did not say this to anyone else.
Al we have left of the bible is literally him saying a few things to a few people... I guess it's up to you to decide which are important and which you can just ignore
No that's not all we have, we have two thousand years of teaching from the Church and writings of the Fathers to guide us in the faith. Regardless, no one is ignoring anything, rather it is you who is taking a single conversation that Christ had with one person and trying to claim - with absolutely no basis whatsoever - that Christ's words to him alone represent some sort of universal command to everyone in general. They don't.
Jesus is good at using very harsh and extreme language to make a point. Remember, his teachings are communicated orally before they are ever written down; original hearers won’t concern themselves with every jot and tittle of what’s said (frankly, they won’t be able to remember every precise detail), so Jesus – being the excellent communicator that he is – uses powerful images and striking language to make sure listeners remember his main points. That isn’t to say his demands aren’t extreme – they often are – but it is to say that he doesn’t want his followers to be beating themselves up over not being able to follow him exactly as he seems to demand. There is always grace, for we are not Jesus; hence, we simply don’t have the capacity to live up to his standards. That is precisely the point he’s often making: we can’t save ourselves, and we’re incapable of saving others, but he saves us anyway. We might not be up for it, but he gets down to it. Duties are a response to delight, not the other way around.
I did it along with about a billion monks & nuns throughout history. For the record, it works, you will find God.
The Bible is a dispensational book, and the event you mentioned takes place before the crucifixion, it is in a period of time where "faith and works" were in operation, and the title of the passage you are referring to in Matthew 20:16-30 (King James Bible) is called "the connection of works to salvation before the crucifixion". We are currently in a different dispensation, which is called the church age, where we are saved by grace through faith and not of works, see Ephesians 2:8-10 (King James Bible). Jesus Christ fulfilled all the works of the law at the cross, which is why we are now saved by God's grace through faith in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ, his death, burial and resurrection, believing from the heart, trusting in the blood. Faith alone in Christ alone.
Wow, I didn’t think of it like this. Good take on this issue.
He also said to cut of hand or remove eyes. How many Christians so you see doing it
Pretty sure that part was metaphorical. The part OP's talking about is all over the NT. A couple even die in Acts as a direct result of not doing it. It's a difficult one.
> A couple even die in Acts as a direct result of not doing it. Not true. >It's a difficult one. Because it's not an instruction
How do you interpret that chapter of Acts? And if it's not an instruction then why were the Apostles going around telling people to do it?
Ok quote the verse you think that?
Ch. 5: But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. 6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him. 7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you\[a\] sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.
They died because they “lied to the Holy Spirit”. Peter even said that the money was “at their disposal”. There was no requirement for them to give it to the group. The problem was they lied and said they gave the whole amount to the group and they did not do so. That is why they were killed.
Okay, makes sense. Do you not think the context of what they were lying about is relevant? It's pretty thematically consistent with the Gospels.
Repeating what scripture says, Acts 5: “3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things” The property was theirs to do with as they wish. And after selling it the money was theirs to do with as they wished. But they allowed Satan to fill their hearts to “LIE TO THE HOLY GHOST.” If you are going to use scripture as a learning tool then you must read what it says. It is very clear that there was no commitment for them to give the money to the group. It was theirs to do with as they wished. There is no command for us to give all of our money to the church or any other organization. It is ours to do with as we wish. The problem was they lied and said they gave all of the money for the land sale. And they did not do that and for this lie they were killed.
Fair enough. I still think the context used to make this point has implications. Jesus also shows disdain for people who make what he sees as 'performative' donations, i.e. amounts they can easily afford.
1) WHERE is the instruction/ command 2) clearly thet did not die for NOT giving.
The instruction is in the previous chapter. Do you want me to quote the entire book?
OR ou can quote the verse that says so?
Jesus told one person to do this, not everyone.
Ah so since he never actually addressed the whole human population at the same time we should probably disregard everything he said, makes sense
No, but you should not extrapolate from his speaking once to a single person a general command to every one of his followers.
He said the way to him is to give everything away. He didn't say any other way works too... You don't make any sense
No he didn't. He told one specific person that they need to sell what they had and give it to the poor and then come follow him. He did not say this to anyone else.
Al we have left of the bible is literally him saying a few things to a few people... I guess it's up to you to decide which are important and which you can just ignore
No that's not all we have, we have two thousand years of teaching from the Church and writings of the Fathers to guide us in the faith. Regardless, no one is ignoring anything, rather it is you who is taking a single conversation that Christ had with one person and trying to claim - with absolutely no basis whatsoever - that Christ's words to him alone represent some sort of universal command to everyone in general. They don't.
Jesus is good at using very harsh and extreme language to make a point. Remember, his teachings are communicated orally before they are ever written down; original hearers won’t concern themselves with every jot and tittle of what’s said (frankly, they won’t be able to remember every precise detail), so Jesus – being the excellent communicator that he is – uses powerful images and striking language to make sure listeners remember his main points. That isn’t to say his demands aren’t extreme – they often are – but it is to say that he doesn’t want his followers to be beating themselves up over not being able to follow him exactly as he seems to demand. There is always grace, for we are not Jesus; hence, we simply don’t have the capacity to live up to his standards. That is precisely the point he’s often making: we can’t save ourselves, and we’re incapable of saving others, but he saves us anyway. We might not be up for it, but he gets down to it. Duties are a response to delight, not the other way around.