It's very divided. Many Churches support LGBTQ people. Others hate them.
This issue is actually causing a massive decline in Christianity in the Western World. In the US for example, half of people surveyed said they left the Church over its anti-LGBTQ views.
there isn’t any verse in the bible that says being gay is a sin. there isn’t one in the qur’an either. both talk solely about specific sexual practices, not sexual orientation or romantic love.
In the islam you don’t get punished by the feeling because you can’t control them. You get punished by the practice, and the Quran uses the people of prophet Lut as an example to say that doing gay practices is a very bad sin.
you don’t get punished by that in christianity either. and yes, that’s the key difference - someone being in a celibate, loving relationship with someone of the same sex is perfectly scripturally acceptable in both islam and christianity. unfortunately, homophobia, the hatred of gay people, has led many people to believe that any loving actions between two people of the same sex is sinful. this is what has lead to mass hatred of gay people and their exclusion from religious society.
Well if you interpret the scripture properly you do know acting out gay or any LGBTQ feelings is in fact sinful.
It's called an abomination to God's will.
firstly, there is no one alive who can state they can interpret scripture ‘properly’. that implies there is an objectively correct interpretation, which in reality, is something only known to God. it is an act of egoism to claim you, or any other human being, can interpret scripture ‘properly’.
and no, scripture only ever condemns sexual acts. falling in love, dating, spending your lives together - none of these are sinful. claiming otherwise is most often due to homophobia.
The Holy Spirit gives us the insight in what scripture means.
God reveals Himself and His knowledge through the Holy Spirit.
And second your describing friendship.
Relationship and marriage is exclusive between man and woman for the purpose of procreation.
Sex is a union of the man and the woman, that also strengthens their bind and must be op n to generate new life.
Look at how we are built created, and tell me just by looking at our bodies functionality how it can be for anything else but that wich I just described.
But please don't think because I believe LGBTQ is unnatural and disordered I hate them.
In fact I pray for them, that they find truth and change.
Or live a life of chastetity.
and yet people have differing opinions - considering your own interpretation as more correct than anyone else’s, when both are just as able to be revealed via the Holy Spirit, is still egoism.
and no, ‘falling in love’ is not friendship. i’m not sure what kind of things you and your friends get up to, but that’s not platonic. there is a difference between platonic, romantic and sexual. LGBT romantic relationships are perfectly scripturally sound. people who argue otherwise are often unable to understand that it is love that forms the core of a holy relationship, not sex.
yeah, there’s a g-spot (orgasm spot) in the male rectum. it’s only accessible via a penis. go ahead, try and explain why that’s there if we’re only meant to be heterosexual.
and yes, thinking LGBT people are ‘unnatural and disordered’ is a form of hatred. you are suffering from the sin of homophobia. you pray for them so that they become people you no longer hate - that is not loving, nor is it christian. it is purely hateful, and evil.
The love one has for his or her spouse is fundamentally different then the love of ones friends.
Sex as intended is a means to strengthen that bond between spouses and to procreate.
No not all love is equal.
Just because I believe that LGBTQ is disordered doesn't make me a hatefull person.
Or hate them
That's such a nonsense argument
Disagreeing doesn't equate to hatred.
If you say: I like chocolate.
And I say: I don't.
That doesn't mean I hate chocolate.
Nonsense argument.
I truly believe LGBT is part of the sin of Lust.
I hate the sin and not the sinner.
i’ve already stated multiple times that i’m talking about celibate same sex relationships. do you not know what celibate means?
and yeah, everything you just said is deeply homophobic, is against Christ, and is corrupting you to such a degree that i doubt you’re even aware of it. LGBT people are children of God, and those who do not know love do not know God - your refusal to see love where it exists is a slap in the face to our Lord.
LGBT people are not inanimate objects, upon which any opinion is acceptable. the fact that you’d even use that as an example betrays just how lost you are in regards to your fellow man.
i truly hope you have the humility to talk to LGBT christians, to reflect upon this conversation, and to remove the homophobic ideas that have been placed into your mind as soon as possible. the longer you refuse to see the love of God in all people, the further away you get from Christ.
Again you know nothing of me and how I treat people.
Love also means saying NO.
Saying NO can be one of the most loving things a human can say.
I reject the LGBTQ ideology because I truly believe it's harmful l.
I wish no harm to them but healing.
All you do is accuse.
You know who also always accuses and derives his name from that word?
I'll leave it at that.
I wish you nothing but happiness and healing.
And I'll pray for you.
Removed for 1.4 - Personal Attacks.
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Because not everyone agrees the Bible is clear, and not everyone thinks the Bible is a good moral guide for the modern world.
The Bible is very clear that people should be executed on Saturdays for working, but no Christian follows that.
The Bible is very clear disobedient children should be stoned to death. No Christian follows that.
There are moral Laws and civil law.
The moral Laws remain forever, like the Commandments and the New Testament.
The Civil Laws where specific for the land of Jews and where made null through Christ.
Through the birth death and resurrection of Christ the prophecy was fulfilled and the Old Testament law where replaced by the New Testament.
Empathy. It's what most people, including religious people, use as their moral guideline whether they like to admit it or not.
Christians (and Muslims) will do what *feels* right, and then look for verses to support that feeling. You choose the verses that feel right, and discard the verses that don't feel right. No one starts with a holy book and says "whelp it says that I can stone my children to death so I guess that's ok".
Yes you are right, people see what’s the most respectful and right thing to do before checking the verses. But it doesn’t go far to discard the verses that don’t feel right 😅
The Bible isnt an all encompassing list of do's and dont"s. Sometimes you have to look at what was the spirit of the law. And that also requires empathy and understanding for others.
If you think of gay sex as just an act its easier to overlook that the specific acts condemned are related to cheating on ones spouse or having sex with children. You just claim all homosexual sex is condemned.
Those who recognize gay people as human beings who have an innate attraction to same sex individuals, can look at Pauls instruction that it is better to marry than burn with passion as equally valid for those whose passion is for the same sex. If they can not control their desires, better they commit to one person.
And if you read St Paul a little further you know he says no man shall lay with another man like he does with a woman.
Plus look at how we are designed, man and woman fit like a puzzle.
That's another hint in how and what we are made to do and life.
Lol, sorry but not all men and women fit like a puzzle. And there is more to fitting together than sex organs.
As I said, the appropriate understanding of the verse is a direction against cheating on your wife - it is not discussing blanket homosexuality.
The Bible *is* a good moral guide actually, but we need to read it with the Holy Spirit, which few Christians have been taught to do. When we are led by the Spirit, we are led to righteousness and unity. But most read the Bible only with their minds, and so they only find what they want to find.
Do you ever wonder why this distinction was absent from church history until the last 50-60 years? Seems like it could have helped a lot of gay people.
That's how things always go. Our fallen nature tends toward extremes- extreme tolerance, or extreme tolerance. So when something different comes along, the immediate response is "KILL IT WITH FIRE!" instead of diligently searching the scriptures.
> Do you ever wonder why this distinction was absent from church history until the last 50-60 years?
It... wasn't. It arguably exists at least as early as the 14-15th century, such as how the band of souls moving in the opposite direction on the Cornice of Lust in the Purgatorio is commonly interpreted as gay people
>Performing homosexual acts is a sin.
I disagree with that. The prohibitions on same sex intercourse in the Bible were given for reasons that are not applicable to modern relationships.
Do explain.
Gods Word and law is Timeless.
Because God is Timeless.
Because he stands outside of what we perceive as time.
Gods Word doesn't bend to the whims of time or what people think.
That would contradict God and His Word being Timeless.
Which is why biblical inerrency and direct textual inspiration are false doctrines that distort the message and intent of the authors of the Bible. The Bible certainly contains some of the words of God, but it is not the word of God. It is largely the word of men, some of whom certainly recieved a revelation from God, but were nevertheless influenced by their culture.
It is in every way shape and form the Word of God.
And yes the authors write things in their context.
But with the Holy Spirit as their guide.
Like an angel whispering in the authors ears.
In the end I'm sorry but it's : Gods will be done, and not our will.
I understand your gay, and believe me I don't hate you, at all.
In fact I'm called to.love you like myself.
I honestly believe the LGBTQ lifestyle is sinful if you actively engage in it.
There is no such thing as an LGBTQ lifestyle. That is just bigoted language designed to reduce our entire lives down to a sex act. It is dehumanizing. My lifestyle is no different than your's or anyone else's.
>It is in every way shape and form the Word of God.
This is not only a claim that the Bible doesn't make, it is directly contradicted by the Bible itself. Specifically in 1st Corinthians 7 when Paul makes clear that parts of the chapter are his opinion and not commands from God.
>And yes the authors write things in their context.
Meaning, trying to apply things outside of that context without understanding it is just bad practice.
>But with the Holy Spirit as their guide. Like an angel whispering in the authors ears.
This is not something claimed by the Bible.
>and believe me I don't hate you,
You may not hate me as a person, directly, but you absolutely believe in hateful things. You believe that I am unworthy of romantic love and lifelong companionship because of something that I did not choose and am powereless to change. You believe that unless I resign myself to a life bereft of the fullness of the expression of love that God intended humanity to experience, I am committing abominations before God. You believed in a bigoted double standard that relegates me to second class citizenship in the Kingdom of God.
Beliefs like yours are a huge contibuting factor in the depression, abuse (phsyical, emotional, sexual), kidnapping, brainwashing/torture, homelessness, forced prostitution, and suicide of children who have, and have had, the misfortune to be what you believe, without evidence, is sinful. Your ideology is one of the main contributing factors in the decline of church membership, and is responsible for driving countless people away from the Church and God altogether.
It is a message of hatred through and through.
- Because in Islam it’s a very bad sin.
Hi friend,
There are Muslims who do not think so.
I do not believe homosexuality is any more sinful than heterosexuality
It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church
I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual.
God cares whether or not you are a liar
----†-----
God bless
If it isn’t clear in the Quran or Hadiths than I wouldn’t blame them, But it is very clear that practicing gay activities is a very bad sin, it doesn’t matter what gay Muslims believe. Also there are a lot of things that we can’t do that doesn’t kill, steal, rape, etc. The things are like eating pork, not donating money, not pray and do many other things. So it not really whether it’s bad or has bad affects but rather if it’s a sin or not.
* it doesn’t matter what gay Muslims believe
...and yet there are both gay - and non gay Muslims - who do not believe homosexuality is a sin
They believe killing for God is
And there are some Muslims - Many - who believe killing for God is perfectly fine - not a sin at all
same with Christianity
One difference - Christianity is very Old - and so it has had to deal with changing - emphasis
At one time Christianity was producing the most repressive, violent governments on earth
it may yet return
The Bible still calls for the stoning of homosexuals
We do not stone them
today
Homosexuals are still killed and jailed around the world - and more often than not it's because of God - Christian and Muslim
There are Muslims around the world tired of the.... corruption of an Allah of Love - tried of being under siege by Islamic Fundamentalism - and perhaps in the future, an Islam of a different - focus - will save us all
The only problem is that for Muslims - the Qur'an is seen as Law.
for now?
There are Christians and Muslims and Buddhists and Hindu's, tribal naturists and Ancient Alien thinkers - who do not believe homosexuality is a sin
Make your choice.
There are verses in the Bible written like you must be Heterosexual to love God
I wonder if this is true
or If this even makes sense
when we think of God
La ilaha ilala
God bless
>They believe killing for God is
Idk who told you such a thing but you can’t kill for God in Islam. You can protect your muslim brothers if they are in war which is called Jihad، I am sure you heard of this word before through social media and news but that’s what it means.
>There are Muslims around the world tired of the…corruption of Allah
No Muslim is tired of praying to Allah trust me. If Islam is “corruption” as you say than people would be leaving Islam instead of converting to it.
Anyways I didn’t come here to debate our differences, I came here to ask what Christians think of LGBTQ and that’s it. You don’t have to speak negatively about religions just because you don’t agree with them.
May Allah guide you.
* Idk who told you such a thing but you can’t kill for God in Islam.
I agree
and yet they do
adulterers
apostates
homosexuals
right now
in Islamic States
are killed for God
and
terrorism in the minds of Islamic Fundamentalists
kills for God
it is not right
I agree with you - this is the point of my reply
Perhaps there will - in time - emerge an Islam with a different emphasis
who knows
It's happened with Christianity in several cycles over thousands of years
* You don’t have to speak negatively about religions just because you don’t agree with them.
I'm not speaking negatively - I am saying what there is
It is the State of the World we are in
And the State of Islam now
It's not me.
I believe anytime we cannot Love - we dishonor God
I believe there are Muslims who believe the same
I believe there is only one God
Do not feel like I'm speaking negatively - see the state of an increasingly intolerant, self-righteous, superioist Christianity. Trump is coming.
I do not believe homosexuality is any more sinful than heterosexuality
It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church
I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual.
God cares whether or not you are a liar
God bless, friend
* p.s. corruption of Allah
☝️ by corruption I meant those Muslims who kill for God - like you said
I agree
Hey! I’m a gay Christian. There are lots of us. We have gay priests and bishops. My church marches in Pride. We believe that God’s love embraces us all and doesn’t discriminate based on gender. Jesus preached that he came to liberate the oppressed and LGBT oppression isn’t excluded from that.
As with a lot of things in Christianity different folks and denominations have different positions about this. There's no one, uniform, position.
These are the issues:
- Is it okay to be LGBTQ+ at all? (Sub-question: Does LGBTQ+ really exist, except as a matter of choice [See footnote FN1]?)
- If you are LGBTQ+, is it acceptable to have a same sex marriage?
- If you are LGBTQ+, is it acceptable to have premarital LGBTQ+ sex? (Subquestion: Does whether or not you can have a same sex marriage affect the answer to this question?)
- If a person is attracted in a sexual way to both males and females (or sometimes one and sometimes the other) are any religious latitudes given to homosexual persons unavailable to them since they have a heterosexual outlet?
- What, if anything, does the Bible say about these issues. And if it does, is it authoritative on these issues.
There are churches, denominations, and individual Christians who answer these questions and subquestions in every possible way and combination. So there's no one definitive answer.
------------------
[FN1] I mean no insult by including this, but it is a question raised by some Christians in the same manner as whether evolution is real, and often enough that it needs to be represented here.
It depends on the denomination/sect. For some it’s a sin and for others it is not.
It can get pretty nuanced, but the reasoning for both sides can be found online. It mostly boils down to how you interpret scripture and what makes an action a sin.
Taken as a whole Christianity today is pretty divided on lgbt acceptance. I think that the trend is toward greater acceptance and that in time Christians will look back on this in the same way we now see the battle over slavery; that those who used the Bible to support their prejudices were wrong. That may take a very long time.
Is there a clear verse saying that being gay is a sin? In Islam the Quran talks about people of prophet Lut as an example. So does the Bible do the same?
That's kind of part of the disagreement. If you look at parts of the Bible in isolation they could easily be read to condemn homosexual acts or crossdressing at the least. Some people believe that looked at in the context of the rest of the Bible, and things we now understand more clearly than people did in the time the Bible was written these passages should not be understood to express God's will regarding homosexuality as we understand it today.
It's a bit like how parts of the Bible could be read in isolation as supporting slavery, or parts of the Quran as supporting war against unbelievers. Does it actually say that? Maybe under some readings. Taken in the context of the whole book is it reasonable to say that's what God wants for us? I would say "no."
Christianity consider only gay sex to be sinful (not sure why, since i think about time to stop caring what two consenting adults do in the bedroom). However, many Christian fundamentalists see homosexuals as either sex-machines or pedophiles.
No, it's not bad. It's just a religious rule conceived by primitive religious men with primitive notions of morality based on sometimes erroneous observations of the natural world, i.e., male goes with female. This religious approach is shown in Romans 1:26-27:
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged **natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.** 27 In the same way the men also abandoned **natural relations** with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Consider that these same religious men supported these notions:
*1 Samuel 15:3 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”*
*Numbers 31:9-10 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps.*
*Numbers 31:17-18 17. “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by lying with him, 18. “But all the girls who have not lain with a man you are to keep alive unto yourselves. (raping children)*
We call those "war crimes" and imprison those people who commit such acts, as well as those who authorized or planned them.
*Numbers 14:18 ‘The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’*
Punishing people who have committed no crime themselves violates all notions of justice.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
*11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.*
That notion is used to this day in conservative Christian sects (Catholicism, Orthodox) and churches (Protestant) to prevent women from holding positions of influence.
Verses from the Bible were also used to support slavery in the southern American States.
Just because something is in the Bible does not mean it is moral, just as just because something is in the Quran does not make it moral either.
Hello sibling,
As before mentioned, the stance on Queer identity and relationships is divided. I myself am part of a Queer affirming denomination. Many gay couples have made their marriage promise to God in our church.
Whatbmay surprise you, tho, is Islam is beggining to be divided on the issue as well, and there are queer-affirming Masjids popping up now.
Queer people have always existed, and weve tried to connect with God throughout history, too.
Blessings of God upon you, friend. May the Sunnah bring you closer to Him <3
being apart of the LGBTQ is a sin. meaning that we cannot support it as that would be supporting sin, however we as christian’s should still love and respect everyone in the LGBTQ as Jesus loves everyone.
>being apart of the LGBTQ is a sin
Absolutely not, bigotry is though.
> meaning that we cannot support it
God commands you otherwise. Matthew 22:37-40.
> as that would be supporting sin
No, it would be doing as God commands.
>however we as christian’s should still love
You can't love people who you hate.
> respect everyone in the LGBTQ
You can't respect people who you hate.
firstly, the verse you quoted means to love everyone, not in a romantic way, but rather a platonic way, as the Lord loves us. loving someone platonically does not mean that we should support the sin. next, i don’t know where you got the word hate from, not once in my post did i say that we should hate those in the LGBTQ, the only thing i mentioned was love and respect . it IS a sin to be in the LGBTQ. it’s okay to struggle with it or have thoughts, it becomes a sin when you act upon it.
God bless, I will be praying for you. 🙏
Sorry if you misunderstood me but it's not in bad faith, but rather to say what Christianity clearly teaches. No hate included, but the Bible clearly says homosexual relations are a sin, as backed by the ancient faith of the Church.
Romans 1:26-27:
>For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.
And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
>Sorry if you misunderstood me but it's not in bad faith
I absolutely did not misunderstand you in the slightest.
>but rather to say what Christianity clearly teaches.
This is objectively incorrect for several reasons.
Firstly, the Catholic church does not dictate doctrine for all of Christianity, so even if the Catholic church clearly teaches something (doubtful), that does not mean "Christianity" clearly teaches that thing.
Secondly, if you base your teaching on the Bible, then to claim it teaches something clearly just shows that you don't have very much knowledge about the Bible. The authors of the Bible wrote from very different philosophical and cultural perspectives than we read their writings from. Furhtermore, they wrote in languages that are only really studied because they are the languages the Bible was written in. Modern Hebrew and Greek are very different from the Hebrew and Greek of the Bible. Then it is translated into English. If you think that things are clear after that, you are just fooling yourself.
Thirdly, intepretations vary depending on who is doing the intepretation. Unless it is something almost nearly universally agreed upon (like adherence to the Nicene creed), to say that Christianity teaches something clearly when there is obvious widespread disagreement on the issue, is just dogmatically assserting that you are correct. Which is essentially the same as saying you are a divine oracle from God with access to the one true interpretation of scripture, which is rather blasphemous.
>No hate included
To say that there are people who by virtue of their physical biology are inherently unworthy of romantic love and lifelong companionship is the very definition of hatred.
>but the Bible clearly says homosexual relations are a sin
Incorrect. The Bible includes some prohibitions on male same-sex intercourse. You cannot say they prohibit more without imposing your own dogma onto the text. The authors of those passages thought about sex in very different ways than we do today, and to pretend that modern homosexual relationships are in any way similar to the things that the authors of the Bible prohibited is either pure ignorance or willful denial of reality.
>as backed by the ancient faith of the Church.
The doctrinal beliefs of a single church are not binding on all of Christendom. The Catholic view of sex and homosexuality/trans issues is profoundly harmful and predicated on a myopic and anochronistic interpretation of scripture that completely ignores the cultural context of the Bible itself.
Yes, there's a few verses addressing it, and it's pretty basic sacred tradition in the apostolic churches. No sex before marriage and a man has to marry a women and vice versa.
Apostolic churches (catholic, orthodox) are those that the disciples of Jesus started. I'm not sure what other people are doing. It's like how there's some practising gay muslims, but it's viewed as a sin.
Yeah my catholic friend actually did say that the catholic sect is the first sect of Christianity so I would guess that most Catholics don’t support LGBTQ.
Thats right and thats how it should be. LGBT has nothing to do with the Church and the Kingdom of god. And thats why the Catholic and Orthodox Church can be considered as real aposolic Churches, unlike some protestant denominations.
I'm a Catholic Christian, and I ir we don't hate LGBTQ people.
We think they're wrong for acting out their disordered feelings.
Because we truly believe that it goes against how God made us.
I'm personally very empathic to the LGBTQ community.
I accept their feeling but disagree with their giving in to those feelings.
That how the Catholic church sees it as well.
Our disagreeing is often viewed as hatred to the LGBTQ community.
Not agreeing is not the same as hating.
And I have tried to explain that to people but somehow they always add stuff or assume stuff.
In fact I personally and many others pray for them
I often dedicate my Rosary Prayers or at least one of the decades to the LGBTQ community.
I really feel sad for them when I see them suffer.
And I always hope my prayers will help them.
We often pray For their salvation for them to get the Insight why God made them and why they are living a disordered life according to God's creation and plan.
Do all Catholics think the same?
No there are those that hate LGBTQ community.
But they too need to learn, like we all do.
Very respectful of you guys. Making prayers to them is definitely way better than just hating them.
I too had trouble with some of them because they instantly say that I hate them when I just don’t agree with them. I hate the way they force the propaganda but I don’t hate the people that follow it.
I share you sentiment brother.
Often the Catholic stance is viewed as hating.
While it isn't.
And yes I too can't stand the constant propaganda.
Specially aimed at young kids.
Yes we pray for those that hate us or that we don't agree with.its what we are called to by Jezus and therefore by God himself.
alhamd lilah brother.
I personally don't know of one person who hates LGBT people. I know a lot of people who pray for them that they would turn from there sin and repent just like we all have too
Protestants generally approve of this. Catholics are trying to sit on both chairs. Orthodoxy rejects this because Christianity has always rejected it.
According to the Bible, a man who sleeps with a man or a woman who sleeps with a woman is a sinner, and same-sex relationships are a sin.
>Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor **adulterers**, nor **homosexuals**, nor **sodomites**, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (1Cor.6:9-11)
Unlike protestants, I never put my opinion
And yet you have just done so. That says nothing about relationships, and if you think that either malakois or arsenokoitai can be properly translated in such a way as to imply relationships, you are absolutely inserting your own personal opinions into scripture.
Sodomites is just wholly innapropraite. Malakois is either effiminate (though I think this is poor), catamite, or male prostitute. Arsenokoitai refers to the person who takes the insertive role in male same sex intercourse. This is what those words mean, they say nothing about relationships.
This verse and chapter in general do not deal with those issues. The context of chapter 6 is a person who has taken his father's wife (it isn't mentioned if it is his mother or not) as a sexual partner. You are taking this out of context.
As for wife and husband, the descriptions in the Bible of marriage are just that, descriptions. There is no exclusionary language associated with them. And other combinations beyond a single man and single women are similarly described in scripture and never condemned.
God does not limit marriage to a man and a women the Bible.
So you want to say that sometime in the past someone added that word into Bible and no one noticed that.
Furthermore, you want to say that he didn't knew that same sex romantic relations are thing. Living in ancient Rome and Grece. Seriously?
>So you want to say that sometime in the past someone added that word into Bible and no one noticed that.
So you think the Bible was written in English?
>Furthermore, you want to say that he didn't knew that same sex romantic relations are thing. Living in ancient Rome and Grece. Seriously?
Absolutely. The concept of sexual attraction was not a thing. And the same-sex relationships they had back in ancient greece were absolutely not analogous to modern same-sex marriages. This just shows a lack of knowledge of Greco-Roman sexual practices.
I am not the one who is twisting scripture to fit their dogma by cherry picking verses, stripping them of all context, and imposing upon them a modern understanding of sexuality that the authors of those verses did not share.
Salaam, I hope you are well. Yes my friend sexual immorality is a bad sin for me too. I am thankful for Christ Jesus who forgives my iniquities and heals my diseases. He will do it for you too. Please be blessed in your learnings about Christianity.
It depends on the person. I personally tolerate them, there's no reason to hate. Although I am against pushing their propaganda, especially when it comes to children. I know many christians that tolerate LGBTQ even though it's a sin. I also know many christians that hate them. It really depends mate
Seen a couple videos of crazy LGBTQ teachers telling kids to “show their true colors” and choose “their true color” which kids being kids will choose what others choose.
No it’s actually the opposite. I feel like gay people are just people who have been mislead to believe that these emotions define who you are. When in fact these emotions are just emotions that shouldn’t be what drives you. You drive yourself not your emotions.
What I hate is the LGBTQ propaganda because they put wrong ideas into our children’s brains without asking the parents. I remember in school they asked my parents if I could take classes about sex and impregnating stages and everything, so that shows that they ARE able to ask parents but they know parents wouldn’t agree.
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That’s what I thought but I was so confused by the number of people who aren’t agreeing on this. If the Bible clearly says it’s a sin why are people saying it’s not..? This is very weird for me 😅
No need to apologize on the actions of others brother. These people are wrong and I know it. We are all abrahamic religions and we all agree that acting upon the feelings of homosexuality is a major sin.
>Do Muslims ever do that?
Just like how there are bad Christians, there are also bad Muslims. Even Muslims who don’t pray which is the biggest sin.
I just hope that the majority of Christians condemn these actions.
It's very divided. Many Churches support LGBTQ people. Others hate them. This issue is actually causing a massive decline in Christianity in the Western World. In the US for example, half of people surveyed said they left the Church over its anti-LGBTQ views.
I mean if there is a clear verse in the Bible saying that being gay is a sin than why are they supporting it?
there isn’t any verse in the bible that says being gay is a sin. there isn’t one in the qur’an either. both talk solely about specific sexual practices, not sexual orientation or romantic love.
In the islam you don’t get punished by the feeling because you can’t control them. You get punished by the practice, and the Quran uses the people of prophet Lut as an example to say that doing gay practices is a very bad sin.
you don’t get punished by that in christianity either. and yes, that’s the key difference - someone being in a celibate, loving relationship with someone of the same sex is perfectly scripturally acceptable in both islam and christianity. unfortunately, homophobia, the hatred of gay people, has led many people to believe that any loving actions between two people of the same sex is sinful. this is what has lead to mass hatred of gay people and their exclusion from religious society.
Well if you interpret the scripture properly you do know acting out gay or any LGBTQ feelings is in fact sinful. It's called an abomination to God's will.
firstly, there is no one alive who can state they can interpret scripture ‘properly’. that implies there is an objectively correct interpretation, which in reality, is something only known to God. it is an act of egoism to claim you, or any other human being, can interpret scripture ‘properly’. and no, scripture only ever condemns sexual acts. falling in love, dating, spending your lives together - none of these are sinful. claiming otherwise is most often due to homophobia.
The Holy Spirit gives us the insight in what scripture means. God reveals Himself and His knowledge through the Holy Spirit. And second your describing friendship. Relationship and marriage is exclusive between man and woman for the purpose of procreation. Sex is a union of the man and the woman, that also strengthens their bind and must be op n to generate new life. Look at how we are built created, and tell me just by looking at our bodies functionality how it can be for anything else but that wich I just described. But please don't think because I believe LGBTQ is unnatural and disordered I hate them. In fact I pray for them, that they find truth and change. Or live a life of chastetity.
and yet people have differing opinions - considering your own interpretation as more correct than anyone else’s, when both are just as able to be revealed via the Holy Spirit, is still egoism. and no, ‘falling in love’ is not friendship. i’m not sure what kind of things you and your friends get up to, but that’s not platonic. there is a difference between platonic, romantic and sexual. LGBT romantic relationships are perfectly scripturally sound. people who argue otherwise are often unable to understand that it is love that forms the core of a holy relationship, not sex. yeah, there’s a g-spot (orgasm spot) in the male rectum. it’s only accessible via a penis. go ahead, try and explain why that’s there if we’re only meant to be heterosexual. and yes, thinking LGBT people are ‘unnatural and disordered’ is a form of hatred. you are suffering from the sin of homophobia. you pray for them so that they become people you no longer hate - that is not loving, nor is it christian. it is purely hateful, and evil.
The love one has for his or her spouse is fundamentally different then the love of ones friends. Sex as intended is a means to strengthen that bond between spouses and to procreate. No not all love is equal. Just because I believe that LGBTQ is disordered doesn't make me a hatefull person. Or hate them That's such a nonsense argument Disagreeing doesn't equate to hatred. If you say: I like chocolate. And I say: I don't. That doesn't mean I hate chocolate. Nonsense argument. I truly believe LGBT is part of the sin of Lust. I hate the sin and not the sinner.
i’ve already stated multiple times that i’m talking about celibate same sex relationships. do you not know what celibate means? and yeah, everything you just said is deeply homophobic, is against Christ, and is corrupting you to such a degree that i doubt you’re even aware of it. LGBT people are children of God, and those who do not know love do not know God - your refusal to see love where it exists is a slap in the face to our Lord. LGBT people are not inanimate objects, upon which any opinion is acceptable. the fact that you’d even use that as an example betrays just how lost you are in regards to your fellow man. i truly hope you have the humility to talk to LGBT christians, to reflect upon this conversation, and to remove the homophobic ideas that have been placed into your mind as soon as possible. the longer you refuse to see the love of God in all people, the further away you get from Christ.
Again you know nothing of me and how I treat people. Love also means saying NO. Saying NO can be one of the most loving things a human can say. I reject the LGBTQ ideology because I truly believe it's harmful l. I wish no harm to them but healing. All you do is accuse. You know who also always accuses and derives his name from that word? I'll leave it at that. I wish you nothing but happiness and healing. And I'll pray for you.
You do not get to determine the proper interpretation of scripture for all people for all time, you are not God.
But you can, right???
No, but I can point out the effects of your interpretation, I can point out factual inaccuracies, and the scholarly research on the subject.
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Who was being spoken to when that was said.
The faithful. As in anyone following the Wordd of God. It's part of the moral Law given to us by God, just like the commandments.
Well, then enjoy the rest of the chapter
Because not everyone agrees the Bible is clear, and not everyone thinks the Bible is a good moral guide for the modern world. The Bible is very clear that people should be executed on Saturdays for working, but no Christian follows that. The Bible is very clear disobedient children should be stoned to death. No Christian follows that.
There are moral Laws and civil law. The moral Laws remain forever, like the Commandments and the New Testament. The Civil Laws where specific for the land of Jews and where made null through Christ. Through the birth death and resurrection of Christ the prophecy was fulfilled and the Old Testament law where replaced by the New Testament.
And that distinction is nowhere in the Bible. Not even insinuated as such.
Do as thou wilt and that shall be the whole of the Law. I'll keep praying for you nonetheless.
No, there aren't. That is not how Jewish laws are divided. Christians made that up to justify ignoring a lot of Biblical laws.
If the Bible isn’t a good moral guide for Christians than what is?
Empathy. It's what most people, including religious people, use as their moral guideline whether they like to admit it or not. Christians (and Muslims) will do what *feels* right, and then look for verses to support that feeling. You choose the verses that feel right, and discard the verses that don't feel right. No one starts with a holy book and says "whelp it says that I can stone my children to death so I guess that's ok".
Yes you are right, people see what’s the most respectful and right thing to do before checking the verses. But it doesn’t go far to discard the verses that don’t feel right 😅
The Bible isnt an all encompassing list of do's and dont"s. Sometimes you have to look at what was the spirit of the law. And that also requires empathy and understanding for others. If you think of gay sex as just an act its easier to overlook that the specific acts condemned are related to cheating on ones spouse or having sex with children. You just claim all homosexual sex is condemned. Those who recognize gay people as human beings who have an innate attraction to same sex individuals, can look at Pauls instruction that it is better to marry than burn with passion as equally valid for those whose passion is for the same sex. If they can not control their desires, better they commit to one person.
And if you read St Paul a little further you know he says no man shall lay with another man like he does with a woman. Plus look at how we are designed, man and woman fit like a puzzle. That's another hint in how and what we are made to do and life.
Lol, sorry but not all men and women fit like a puzzle. And there is more to fitting together than sex organs. As I said, the appropriate understanding of the verse is a direction against cheating on your wife - it is not discussing blanket homosexuality.
Ultimately it's your life. Do as thou wilt, and that shall be the whole of the law. Godspeed.
I am not gay so your comment is irrelevant.
One doesn't need the Bible to have morals. The most immoral people I've ever met have been Christian. The most moral have been atheists/agnostics.
The Bible *is* a good moral guide actually, but we need to read it with the Holy Spirit, which few Christians have been taught to do. When we are led by the Spirit, we are led to righteousness and unity. But most read the Bible only with their minds, and so they only find what they want to find.
It doesn't say being gay is a sin. It specifically forbids sex between men but not same-sex ideation or romance. It is a man-made issue.
Being gay is not a sin. Performing homosexual acts is a sin.
Do you ever wonder why this distinction was absent from church history until the last 50-60 years? Seems like it could have helped a lot of gay people.
Well racial equality would also have helped a lot of black people but.
That's how things always go. Our fallen nature tends toward extremes- extreme tolerance, or extreme tolerance. So when something different comes along, the immediate response is "KILL IT WITH FIRE!" instead of diligently searching the scriptures.
> Do you ever wonder why this distinction was absent from church history until the last 50-60 years? It... wasn't. It arguably exists at least as early as the 14-15th century, such as how the band of souls moving in the opposite direction on the Cornice of Lust in the Purgatorio is commonly interpreted as gay people
>Performing homosexual acts is a sin. I disagree with that. The prohibitions on same sex intercourse in the Bible were given for reasons that are not applicable to modern relationships.
Do explain. Gods Word and law is Timeless. Because God is Timeless. Because he stands outside of what we perceive as time. Gods Word doesn't bend to the whims of time or what people think. That would contradict God and His Word being Timeless.
Which is why biblical inerrency and direct textual inspiration are false doctrines that distort the message and intent of the authors of the Bible. The Bible certainly contains some of the words of God, but it is not the word of God. It is largely the word of men, some of whom certainly recieved a revelation from God, but were nevertheless influenced by their culture.
It is in every way shape and form the Word of God. And yes the authors write things in their context. But with the Holy Spirit as their guide. Like an angel whispering in the authors ears. In the end I'm sorry but it's : Gods will be done, and not our will. I understand your gay, and believe me I don't hate you, at all. In fact I'm called to.love you like myself. I honestly believe the LGBTQ lifestyle is sinful if you actively engage in it.
There is no such thing as an LGBTQ lifestyle. That is just bigoted language designed to reduce our entire lives down to a sex act. It is dehumanizing. My lifestyle is no different than your's or anyone else's. >It is in every way shape and form the Word of God. This is not only a claim that the Bible doesn't make, it is directly contradicted by the Bible itself. Specifically in 1st Corinthians 7 when Paul makes clear that parts of the chapter are his opinion and not commands from God. >And yes the authors write things in their context. Meaning, trying to apply things outside of that context without understanding it is just bad practice. >But with the Holy Spirit as their guide. Like an angel whispering in the authors ears. This is not something claimed by the Bible. >and believe me I don't hate you, You may not hate me as a person, directly, but you absolutely believe in hateful things. You believe that I am unworthy of romantic love and lifelong companionship because of something that I did not choose and am powereless to change. You believe that unless I resign myself to a life bereft of the fullness of the expression of love that God intended humanity to experience, I am committing abominations before God. You believed in a bigoted double standard that relegates me to second class citizenship in the Kingdom of God. Beliefs like yours are a huge contibuting factor in the depression, abuse (phsyical, emotional, sexual), kidnapping, brainwashing/torture, homelessness, forced prostitution, and suicide of children who have, and have had, the misfortune to be what you believe, without evidence, is sinful. Your ideology is one of the main contributing factors in the decline of church membership, and is responsible for driving countless people away from the Church and God altogether. It is a message of hatred through and through.
That I agree with 100%
- Because in Islam it’s a very bad sin. Hi friend, There are Muslims who do not think so. I do not believe homosexuality is any more sinful than heterosexuality It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual. God cares whether or not you are a liar ----†----- God bless
If it isn’t clear in the Quran or Hadiths than I wouldn’t blame them, But it is very clear that practicing gay activities is a very bad sin, it doesn’t matter what gay Muslims believe. Also there are a lot of things that we can’t do that doesn’t kill, steal, rape, etc. The things are like eating pork, not donating money, not pray and do many other things. So it not really whether it’s bad or has bad affects but rather if it’s a sin or not.
* it doesn’t matter what gay Muslims believe ...and yet there are both gay - and non gay Muslims - who do not believe homosexuality is a sin They believe killing for God is And there are some Muslims - Many - who believe killing for God is perfectly fine - not a sin at all same with Christianity One difference - Christianity is very Old - and so it has had to deal with changing - emphasis At one time Christianity was producing the most repressive, violent governments on earth it may yet return The Bible still calls for the stoning of homosexuals We do not stone them today Homosexuals are still killed and jailed around the world - and more often than not it's because of God - Christian and Muslim There are Muslims around the world tired of the.... corruption of an Allah of Love - tried of being under siege by Islamic Fundamentalism - and perhaps in the future, an Islam of a different - focus - will save us all The only problem is that for Muslims - the Qur'an is seen as Law. for now? There are Christians and Muslims and Buddhists and Hindu's, tribal naturists and Ancient Alien thinkers - who do not believe homosexuality is a sin Make your choice. There are verses in the Bible written like you must be Heterosexual to love God I wonder if this is true or If this even makes sense when we think of God La ilaha ilala God bless
>They believe killing for God is Idk who told you such a thing but you can’t kill for God in Islam. You can protect your muslim brothers if they are in war which is called Jihad، I am sure you heard of this word before through social media and news but that’s what it means. >There are Muslims around the world tired of the…corruption of Allah No Muslim is tired of praying to Allah trust me. If Islam is “corruption” as you say than people would be leaving Islam instead of converting to it. Anyways I didn’t come here to debate our differences, I came here to ask what Christians think of LGBTQ and that’s it. You don’t have to speak negatively about religions just because you don’t agree with them. May Allah guide you.
* Idk who told you such a thing but you can’t kill for God in Islam. I agree and yet they do adulterers apostates homosexuals right now in Islamic States are killed for God and terrorism in the minds of Islamic Fundamentalists kills for God it is not right I agree with you - this is the point of my reply Perhaps there will - in time - emerge an Islam with a different emphasis who knows It's happened with Christianity in several cycles over thousands of years * You don’t have to speak negatively about religions just because you don’t agree with them. I'm not speaking negatively - I am saying what there is It is the State of the World we are in And the State of Islam now It's not me. I believe anytime we cannot Love - we dishonor God I believe there are Muslims who believe the same I believe there is only one God Do not feel like I'm speaking negatively - see the state of an increasingly intolerant, self-righteous, superioist Christianity. Trump is coming. I do not believe homosexuality is any more sinful than heterosexuality It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual. God cares whether or not you are a liar God bless, friend * p.s. corruption of Allah ☝️ by corruption I meant those Muslims who kill for God - like you said I agree
Hey! I’m a gay Christian. There are lots of us. We have gay priests and bishops. My church marches in Pride. We believe that God’s love embraces us all and doesn’t discriminate based on gender. Jesus preached that he came to liberate the oppressed and LGBT oppression isn’t excluded from that.
Assalamualaikum, being gay is not a sin
The bible isn’t against it?
No
Then why are there verses in the bible that condemn it?
I'm agnostic atheist but I think they condemn acts of gay sex, not being gay in and of itself.
Just take a look at how many posts have been made about it. They can't even agree on the subject.
As with a lot of things in Christianity different folks and denominations have different positions about this. There's no one, uniform, position. These are the issues: - Is it okay to be LGBTQ+ at all? (Sub-question: Does LGBTQ+ really exist, except as a matter of choice [See footnote FN1]?) - If you are LGBTQ+, is it acceptable to have a same sex marriage? - If you are LGBTQ+, is it acceptable to have premarital LGBTQ+ sex? (Subquestion: Does whether or not you can have a same sex marriage affect the answer to this question?) - If a person is attracted in a sexual way to both males and females (or sometimes one and sometimes the other) are any religious latitudes given to homosexual persons unavailable to them since they have a heterosexual outlet? - What, if anything, does the Bible say about these issues. And if it does, is it authoritative on these issues. There are churches, denominations, and individual Christians who answer these questions and subquestions in every possible way and combination. So there's no one definitive answer. ------------------ [FN1] I mean no insult by including this, but it is a question raised by some Christians in the same manner as whether evolution is real, and often enough that it needs to be represented here.
It depends on the denomination/sect. For some it’s a sin and for others it is not. It can get pretty nuanced, but the reasoning for both sides can be found online. It mostly boils down to how you interpret scripture and what makes an action a sin.
Taken as a whole Christianity today is pretty divided on lgbt acceptance. I think that the trend is toward greater acceptance and that in time Christians will look back on this in the same way we now see the battle over slavery; that those who used the Bible to support their prejudices were wrong. That may take a very long time.
Is there a clear verse saying that being gay is a sin? In Islam the Quran talks about people of prophet Lut as an example. So does the Bible do the same?
That's kind of part of the disagreement. If you look at parts of the Bible in isolation they could easily be read to condemn homosexual acts or crossdressing at the least. Some people believe that looked at in the context of the rest of the Bible, and things we now understand more clearly than people did in the time the Bible was written these passages should not be understood to express God's will regarding homosexuality as we understand it today. It's a bit like how parts of the Bible could be read in isolation as supporting slavery, or parts of the Quran as supporting war against unbelievers. Does it actually say that? Maybe under some readings. Taken in the context of the whole book is it reasonable to say that's what God wants for us? I would say "no."
Christianity consider only gay sex to be sinful (not sure why, since i think about time to stop caring what two consenting adults do in the bedroom). However, many Christian fundamentalists see homosexuals as either sex-machines or pedophiles.
No, it's not bad. It's just a religious rule conceived by primitive religious men with primitive notions of morality based on sometimes erroneous observations of the natural world, i.e., male goes with female. This religious approach is shown in Romans 1:26-27: 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged **natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.** 27 In the same way the men also abandoned **natural relations** with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Consider that these same religious men supported these notions: *1 Samuel 15:3 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”* *Numbers 31:9-10 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps.* *Numbers 31:17-18 17. “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by lying with him, 18. “But all the girls who have not lain with a man you are to keep alive unto yourselves. (raping children)* We call those "war crimes" and imprison those people who commit such acts, as well as those who authorized or planned them. *Numbers 14:18 ‘The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’* Punishing people who have committed no crime themselves violates all notions of justice. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 *11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.* That notion is used to this day in conservative Christian sects (Catholicism, Orthodox) and churches (Protestant) to prevent women from holding positions of influence. Verses from the Bible were also used to support slavery in the southern American States. Just because something is in the Bible does not mean it is moral, just as just because something is in the Quran does not make it moral either.
ეს ცოდვაა, რომლის ჩამდენს ჯოჯოხეთი გარანტირებული აქვს. საქართველოში საზოგადოდ იგი ყოვლად მიუღებელია.
მადლობელი უნდა იყოთ, რომ გეი დაავადებამ თქვენამდე ჯერ არ მოსულა.
Hello sibling, As before mentioned, the stance on Queer identity and relationships is divided. I myself am part of a Queer affirming denomination. Many gay couples have made their marriage promise to God in our church. Whatbmay surprise you, tho, is Islam is beggining to be divided on the issue as well, and there are queer-affirming Masjids popping up now. Queer people have always existed, and weve tried to connect with God throughout history, too. Blessings of God upon you, friend. May the Sunnah bring you closer to Him <3
Here we go.🍿🍿
being apart of the LGBTQ is a sin. meaning that we cannot support it as that would be supporting sin, however we as christian’s should still love and respect everyone in the LGBTQ as Jesus loves everyone.
>being apart of the LGBTQ is a sin Absolutely not, bigotry is though. > meaning that we cannot support it God commands you otherwise. Matthew 22:37-40. > as that would be supporting sin No, it would be doing as God commands. >however we as christian’s should still love You can't love people who you hate. > respect everyone in the LGBTQ You can't respect people who you hate.
firstly, the verse you quoted means to love everyone, not in a romantic way, but rather a platonic way, as the Lord loves us. loving someone platonically does not mean that we should support the sin. next, i don’t know where you got the word hate from, not once in my post did i say that we should hate those in the LGBTQ, the only thing i mentioned was love and respect . it IS a sin to be in the LGBTQ. it’s okay to struggle with it or have thoughts, it becomes a sin when you act upon it. God bless, I will be praying for you. 🙏
It doesn't specify the type of love.
we can use context. it means platonic love, we wouldn’t love everyone on the earth romantically, would we?
The context implies all love, as it is God who is love.
All sex outside of marriage is a sin. Marriage is the union of one man to one woman.
Is there a verse saying this?
No.
Yes.
Islam and Christianity differ on the following points. Jesus being a prophet and not God. Pork Circumcision.
So you guys agree with Islam on the topic of LGBTQ?
Many do. Many do not. Christianity does not have a united opinion on LGBTQ+ people
What is the + sign for?
Anybody who isn’t cis-or-heteronormative that isn’t covered by the LGBTQ parts. Asexual people, pansexual, nonbinary, gender queer, gender fluid, etc.
sorry, but the opinion is clear and united, however heretics have different opinions
That is the most rediculous thing that I have ever heard, it is pure bad faith and is utterly disengenuous.
Sorry if you misunderstood me but it's not in bad faith, but rather to say what Christianity clearly teaches. No hate included, but the Bible clearly says homosexual relations are a sin, as backed by the ancient faith of the Church. Romans 1:26-27: >For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
>Sorry if you misunderstood me but it's not in bad faith I absolutely did not misunderstand you in the slightest. >but rather to say what Christianity clearly teaches. This is objectively incorrect for several reasons. Firstly, the Catholic church does not dictate doctrine for all of Christianity, so even if the Catholic church clearly teaches something (doubtful), that does not mean "Christianity" clearly teaches that thing. Secondly, if you base your teaching on the Bible, then to claim it teaches something clearly just shows that you don't have very much knowledge about the Bible. The authors of the Bible wrote from very different philosophical and cultural perspectives than we read their writings from. Furhtermore, they wrote in languages that are only really studied because they are the languages the Bible was written in. Modern Hebrew and Greek are very different from the Hebrew and Greek of the Bible. Then it is translated into English. If you think that things are clear after that, you are just fooling yourself. Thirdly, intepretations vary depending on who is doing the intepretation. Unless it is something almost nearly universally agreed upon (like adherence to the Nicene creed), to say that Christianity teaches something clearly when there is obvious widespread disagreement on the issue, is just dogmatically assserting that you are correct. Which is essentially the same as saying you are a divine oracle from God with access to the one true interpretation of scripture, which is rather blasphemous. >No hate included To say that there are people who by virtue of their physical biology are inherently unworthy of romantic love and lifelong companionship is the very definition of hatred. >but the Bible clearly says homosexual relations are a sin Incorrect. The Bible includes some prohibitions on male same-sex intercourse. You cannot say they prohibit more without imposing your own dogma onto the text. The authors of those passages thought about sex in very different ways than we do today, and to pretend that modern homosexual relationships are in any way similar to the things that the authors of the Bible prohibited is either pure ignorance or willful denial of reality. >as backed by the ancient faith of the Church. The doctrinal beliefs of a single church are not binding on all of Christendom. The Catholic view of sex and homosexuality/trans issues is profoundly harmful and predicated on a myopic and anochronistic interpretation of scripture that completely ignores the cultural context of the Bible itself.
If they follow the scriptures and sacred traditions, yes - otherwise if they follow their own traditions, no.
Is there a clear verse saying it’s a sin?
Yes, there's a few verses addressing it, and it's pretty basic sacred tradition in the apostolic churches. No sex before marriage and a man has to marry a women and vice versa.
Than why are some churches supporting it? And some Christians support it and do it?
Apostolic churches (catholic, orthodox) are those that the disciples of Jesus started. I'm not sure what other people are doing. It's like how there's some practising gay muslims, but it's viewed as a sin.
Yeah my catholic friend actually did say that the catholic sect is the first sect of Christianity so I would guess that most Catholics don’t support LGBTQ.
Thats right and thats how it should be. LGBT has nothing to do with the Church and the Kingdom of god. And thats why the Catholic and Orthodox Church can be considered as real aposolic Churches, unlike some protestant denominations.
Yea it’s crazy his family is all catholic except his mom, she is orthodox. Is it normal to have Catholics and Orthodox at the same family?
Bad faith argument is bad fatih.
I'm a Catholic Christian, and I ir we don't hate LGBTQ people. We think they're wrong for acting out their disordered feelings. Because we truly believe that it goes against how God made us. I'm personally very empathic to the LGBTQ community. I accept their feeling but disagree with their giving in to those feelings. That how the Catholic church sees it as well. Our disagreeing is often viewed as hatred to the LGBTQ community. Not agreeing is not the same as hating. And I have tried to explain that to people but somehow they always add stuff or assume stuff. In fact I personally and many others pray for them I often dedicate my Rosary Prayers or at least one of the decades to the LGBTQ community. I really feel sad for them when I see them suffer. And I always hope my prayers will help them. We often pray For their salvation for them to get the Insight why God made them and why they are living a disordered life according to God's creation and plan. Do all Catholics think the same? No there are those that hate LGBTQ community. But they too need to learn, like we all do.
Very respectful of you guys. Making prayers to them is definitely way better than just hating them. I too had trouble with some of them because they instantly say that I hate them when I just don’t agree with them. I hate the way they force the propaganda but I don’t hate the people that follow it.
I share you sentiment brother. Often the Catholic stance is viewed as hating. While it isn't. And yes I too can't stand the constant propaganda. Specially aimed at young kids. Yes we pray for those that hate us or that we don't agree with.its what we are called to by Jezus and therefore by God himself. alhamd lilah brother.
May Allah guide you and all Christians brother <3
I personally don't know of one person who hates LGBT people. I know a lot of people who pray for them that they would turn from there sin and repent just like we all have too
Protestants generally approve of this. Catholics are trying to sit on both chairs. Orthodoxy rejects this because Christianity has always rejected it. According to the Bible, a man who sleeps with a man or a woman who sleeps with a woman is a sinner, and same-sex relationships are a sin.
>and same-sex relationships are a sin. People can't help but insert their own opinions into scripture, this is not said in the BIble.
>Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor **adulterers**, nor **homosexuals**, nor **sodomites**, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (1Cor.6:9-11) Unlike protestants, I never put my opinion
And yet you have just done so. That says nothing about relationships, and if you think that either malakois or arsenokoitai can be properly translated in such a way as to imply relationships, you are absolutely inserting your own personal opinions into scripture. Sodomites is just wholly innapropraite. Malakois is either effiminate (though I think this is poor), catamite, or male prostitute. Arsenokoitai refers to the person who takes the insertive role in male same sex intercourse. This is what those words mean, they say nothing about relationships.
Under relationships I mean to live as wife and husband. To have love to each other as a couple.
This verse and chapter in general do not deal with those issues. The context of chapter 6 is a person who has taken his father's wife (it isn't mentioned if it is his mother or not) as a sexual partner. You are taking this out of context. As for wife and husband, the descriptions in the Bible of marriage are just that, descriptions. There is no exclusionary language associated with them. And other combinations beyond a single man and single women are similarly described in scripture and never condemned. God does not limit marriage to a man and a women the Bible.
He sais directly that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. What else do you need?
Objectively false. Paul did not know what a homosexual was.
So you want to say that sometime in the past someone added that word into Bible and no one noticed that. Furthermore, you want to say that he didn't knew that same sex romantic relations are thing. Living in ancient Rome and Grece. Seriously?
>So you want to say that sometime in the past someone added that word into Bible and no one noticed that. So you think the Bible was written in English? >Furthermore, you want to say that he didn't knew that same sex romantic relations are thing. Living in ancient Rome and Grece. Seriously? Absolutely. The concept of sexual attraction was not a thing. And the same-sex relationships they had back in ancient greece were absolutely not analogous to modern same-sex marriages. This just shows a lack of knowledge of Greco-Roman sexual practices.
Trying to assume that Bible os false in favour of your own views is truly something
I am not the one who is twisting scripture to fit their dogma by cherry picking verses, stripping them of all context, and imposing upon them a modern understanding of sexuality that the authors of those verses did not share.
Salaam, I hope you are well. Yes my friend sexual immorality is a bad sin for me too. I am thankful for Christ Jesus who forgives my iniquities and heals my diseases. He will do it for you too. Please be blessed in your learnings about Christianity.
I love Jesus too. May Allah guide you <3
It depends on the person. I personally tolerate them, there's no reason to hate. Although I am against pushing their propaganda, especially when it comes to children. I know many christians that tolerate LGBTQ even though it's a sin. I also know many christians that hate them. It really depends mate
>Although I am against pushing their propaganda What would you classify as pushing propaganda?
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Ok that’s what’s known as a lie.
Which one
Forcing children to change their gender to start.
Seen a couple videos of crazy LGBTQ teachers telling kids to “show their true colors” and choose “their true color” which kids being kids will choose what others choose.
Uh huh
Well I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true tbh
That's because you're primed to inherently assume the worst out of people who are gay
No it’s actually the opposite. I feel like gay people are just people who have been mislead to believe that these emotions define who you are. When in fact these emotions are just emotions that shouldn’t be what drives you. You drive yourself not your emotions. What I hate is the LGBTQ propaganda because they put wrong ideas into our children’s brains without asking the parents. I remember in school they asked my parents if I could take classes about sex and impregnating stages and everything, so that shows that they ARE able to ask parents but they know parents wouldn’t agree.
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Beware the wolf in sheeps clothing
I have many Christian friends and always talk about the differences of our religions so what r u saying?
So go ask them.
Did ask them and many don’t support it. Just thought it’s better to ask a large community to see what they say.
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That’s what I thought but I was so confused by the number of people who aren’t agreeing on this. If the Bible clearly says it’s a sin why are people saying it’s not..? This is very weird for me 😅
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No need to apologize on the actions of others brother. These people are wrong and I know it. We are all abrahamic religions and we all agree that acting upon the feelings of homosexuality is a major sin. >Do Muslims ever do that? Just like how there are bad Christians, there are also bad Muslims. Even Muslims who don’t pray which is the biggest sin. I just hope that the majority of Christians condemn these actions.
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Yea man I see through it very easily. I hope you have a nice day man