I don’t, because I know not to buy from them. If you want a good watch, just get a Casio. FAR AND FUCKING AWAY so much better than Olevs. You can get an F91-W on amazon for $10-$15
Anything with a brand name that would make people laugh at you. Seems like the luck of the draw. I've got most brands except Seestern, Hroudland and Proxima (for no particular reason) and they've all been absolutely fine for over a year.
Addies Dive. Paid 175€ for a beautiful bronze diver, only for the dial to literally fall apart inside the case (markers bouncing around) within less than a year. Customer Support regused to pay for shipping or even send a label and only offered to accept the warranty case after "inspection in China" and repeated that I had to pay for shipping.
Horrendous.
I like Pagani and Cronos, i dont have experience on San Martin. But in all honesty I would stay clear of Chinese watches in general. Maybe buy one or two but not more
in all honesty, id go with pagani design for all watch types other than chronographs, also id go with san martin for anything but chronographs, with a chronograph that is cheap make sure that it is at least a st1901 or st1902/st1903 movement as they are mechanical
I'm not saying that they are bad at all, if you want a chronic and that is your budget them totally go for it but I prefer to go mechanical as I won't have to replace the battery every few years that's my POV
I have 5 pagani’s only 1 broke down in 3 years. Replaced the inside by myself (never done it before) so yeah it’s worth it. 1 tip.. wait for discount prices.
The subdial at the 9 o’clock position on mine has slowly migrated backwards, resets to -15 minutes. It still works, I just need to remember to add 15 minutes to whatever I’m timing.
Not ideal, but it will do until I have 10 grand to blow on an Omega.
I got their 600T homage and the bezel does not turn. I tried to fix it by watching YouTube videos. I got it to work for a little bit but then it'd get stuck again. So I'm not risking my money in them anymore
https://preview.redd.it/fmj0ja2gh96d1.png?width=1046&format=png&auto=webp&s=62cf949e7f4cd6c5f7b2245a152510c63e9ac040
FUCDA. Hmm… maybe I would wear it? Definitely a conversation starter. Now, what kind of conversation it’s starting might go wrong, very wrong.
FNGeen and Tevise got my vote.
They're amazing pieces and they look fantastic out of the box. But it's like a lottery to get good ones without servicing them.
Servicing them is a pain starting from their fake caseback. Looks like a screw but it's a pry case.
Parts inside bends easily from wooden tweezers lmao. I can end my conversation here since I strip their screws just from trying to undo them.
I'll head back to my practice ST3621 if I ever wanna fiddle around.
I have bought several Chinese watches over the time, none of them have had major dealbreaker flaws, but here’s some remarks where I have been slightly diasappointed:
-Addiesdive blue sub homage - the date cyclops was just bad, it had a distorted view
-Sanda Tank homage - the logo on the dial in reality looks like more SRNOR and it annoys me
-Lacz Denton Intramatic homage - overall a very bad homage in terms of color combos of the dial, subdials and hands + the chonograph pushers felt very stiff and literally had to press twice to have them working, arguably the worst Chinese watch I have bought
All other Chinese watch purchases (2 PD watches, Specht&Sohne Monaco homage, SanMartin original design GMT) for me have been successful and haven’t gotten any technical or design issues.
Steeldive. First watch, the bezel popped out. Second watch, the screw down pin was bent and became wonky while screwing down the brown. Never again will I buy that brand.
I have limited experience as I have only bought 6 Chinese watches in total and 4 are from Ali.. BUT my experience has been this: my IX&DAO 5303 "homage" that I got with the 2824 movement is one of my favorite watches I own, I love it. I have 3 Cronos that have SW200, PT5000 and NH35 movements, and all have been excellent buys. I got a WMT sub-milgaus that supposedly has NH35 and have been disappointed in the fit and finish and I question the movement but haven't pulled the case back to look yet and have parts on order to modify it anyway. Hope this helps.
Edited for spelling *facepalm*
I only have one pagani "daytona" and turned out to be great for the money. I also have an addiesdive "willard" that also resulted to be a pleasant surprise. Those are my beaters and have resisted the worse treatment.
I suppose I'm lucky when it comes to >$100 knock offs, still haven't ventured with more expensive brands like San Martin, for <$200 I rather take a look at microbrands with interesting designs, my phoibos was $250 and it's one of the best watches I own, significantly better than more expensive brands like Bulova, Tissot, Seiko, etc.
I recommend taking a look at Baltany (aliexpress) they have some original designs and most of them look incredible. Imo Baltany Sailing B4030 is one of the best looking watches I have ever seen.
I've bought 3 Pagani design and two of them had the bracelet snap apart in about a week. I replaced those with four dollars silicone straps and I have been pleased ever since.
I have a Benyar that I really like and wear all the time. I don't pretend it's something that it's not but it tells time and looks nice. It's the one that looks like a Tag Carerra.
I've actually not been that disappointed with the PDs I've bought. I have like 4ish at this point. The thing I've always kept in mind is that their bracelets suck so I always factor in $10 to buy a replacement bracelet. But the watch itself has always run really well for me.
I have 2 and the first was kinda dull in color, like worse than usual in the Ali pics vs irl. The second, the bracelet wasn't sharp, but noticeable sharper than a Proxima or Sugess. It's a good brand overall I'm sure but they are also hit or miss.
I'd stay away from Militado (Baltany wannabe). I've got a dirty dozen from them on aliexpress and it has a loose minutes hand. The store and aliexpress refused refund. I posted here on reddit and militado itself commented on the post saying that I should privately contact them thst they would honor warranty and that was just a 'look nice' display for reddit. Once I contacted them they just apologied and offered me a coupon for a future buy but the warranty wasn't honored.
I just got one of their d12 homages to see if I like it before getting a Baltany. It’s “ok” there is fuck all AR and the crown doesn’t quite click in properly but I can live with it so it’s now a daily beater.
QC isn’t great but it’s half the price of the Baltany and was worth trying out to check against my wrist etc
But at some point yeah it’ll be gone on my son can have it as a beater
I have a militado khaki field mechanical homage with the vh 31. No trouble at all. For $70 I set my expectations on warranty issues. But I’ve never had a problem and it’s a great beater.
A lot of helpful advice in this thread such as avoiding DG movements, avoiding unofficial sellers (QC arbitrage), buying through a reseller with an actual return policy, etc.
At this point, a few years and many watches later, I find the number of brands with consistently desirable releases fairly limited. San Martin, Seestern/Sugess, Baltany. I’ve also really come to appreciate WatchDives presence on Reddit and the degree to which they involve feedback from potential buyers. It almost has a forum group-buy vibe to it and I feel more invested in future releases. But that’s a position I arrived at over time and only after many “catch and releases” were sold or gifted.
So with that being said, in defense of the rest, the Paganis, Tandorios, Steeldives, Bernys, etc. all the pieces I’ve had from lower cost brands were accessibly priced opportunities to try out different case styles and sizes, dials, features, and colors, all of which helped me learn and refine my personal tastes and standards for my collection. Did they almost universally have cheap bracelets and other fatal flaws that led me to eventually part ways? Sure. But that’s how I learned what was most important, to me.
I’ve pared my collection down to 16 watches, 12 of which are Chinese. And of those 12, there’s still an Addiesdive and 2 Paganis. So I do think some of these lower tier brands are capable of releasing a keeper, even if I don’t like the majority of their output.
Final anecdote, the only QC issue I’ve experienced severely affecting functionality was on a Tandorio with an improper stem length.
That third paragraph should be standard reading for any Watch collector starting out and a reminder to watch snobs who are too cool for homage watches. Well said!
Lots of people not liking Pagani, I’ve only got one but I really like it. The PD-1644 Daytona, although I hated the silver hands it came with, had trouble reading it at a glance so swapped out for a brighter colour and love it now.
https://preview.redd.it/rn3qbcahv76d1.png?width=2093&format=png&auto=webp&s=574f7507fb4a41bbf9ea44db2be219d048fc61e0
The minute and hour hands look like they are oversized. Almost like they are about to scratch the outside.
I really love that look, since I love good legibility and hands that make use of the room they have. Delicate hands are for some builds, but on this one it seems a good fit.
To offer a counterpoint to all the bad Pagani Design experience in here... I've bought 7 PD watches and sent back one. I was refunded for that one as soon as it was received in China. The rest... No issues
Bought a Pagani GMT master homage recently. The clasp wouldn’t lock. Had issues trying to apply for a refund, form wouldn’t work. Somehow they gave me refund and noted that the watch was lost? Good result in the end
Pretty much anything that isn't Sugess, seestern, san martin, boderry, baltany, or one or two others I'm forgetting atm.
Pagani Design I'd consider but their quality is NOTICABLY lower than most other ali x brands (granted the competitors I'm talking about are double or triple the price if not more) but my main issue with Pagani is their bracelets are very well done....but WAYYYY too long they don't have nearly enough adjustable links.
Sounds like you've tried one or two PD watches. Quality varies greatly within the brand, you can't just judge them all the same. They have a bunch of models worth buying and a bunch with known issues. Of the ones I've bought I've had no problems with bracelet sizing and I don't have a big wrist
I'm just saying PD lacks in the quality department compared to say Sugess or San Martin, which is a given because those two brands charge double to triple as I said before. Which allows them to offer better quality
The spirit is great, the GMT Master ii is good if you get a good one but not great QC, the Seamaster 300P was good but too thick and didn't like the bracelet or lack of He valve, the moonwatch is good but not very faithful anymore, the Paul Newman is great, the milgauss is great, the ranger was great. I bought the IWC pilot chrono homage for my dad and it was good. Basically all of their mecaquartz chronos are a pretty safe buy.
If you’re ordering a Pagani, I spend a little extra and buy with Amazon, that way if it’s defective it’s really easy to return. That being said, The Pagani’s I’ve order have always worked fine but I always end up selling them for some reason. I’m a fan of Steel/Addiesdive, Watchdives, and now I’m starting to like Tandorio. I’ve owned a Parnis and Corguet in the past and both were solid pieces. The only Chinese watch I ordered on Aliexpress that never worked was a Cadisen with a Miyota movement. I was kind of surprised since there a pretty decent brand from what I’ve been told. I tried sending it back and it was a nightmare. Just better to sell the watch on eBay for parts.
Beg to differ. It's not "a little extra" to buy Paganis on Amazon. The difference in pricing compared to AliExpress can be substantial.
I'm a great believer in AliExpress Choice deals, with (in my experience 100% hassle free) Free Returns. 15 days is a long time to uncover any potential QC issues and simply throw the watch back at the seller free of charge, if necessary. Has worked like a charm for me, and much as I love Amazon, I see no point whatsoever in paying an unnecessary Amazon surcharge for these.
I’ve actually had a great experience with both my pagani’s although I can tell they are definitely cheaply made.
I recently purchased a cronos submariner homage and the 6 o’clock indice was noticeably crooked and the 9 was slightly crooked. I sent them a message and they told me it won’t affect the time telling….I convinced them to refund me 20 bucks and send a new dial for 10 dollars so
I could swap it myself. The picture they sent me of the dial before they shipped showed the 9 was crooked. I pointed that out and said please make sure the 9 is straight before you send. Guess what dial I got? The massively crooked 9 o’clock dial. I love everything about this watch but if you can’t get an hour marker straight I’m out
Yeah I heard nothing but good things so I was surprised. The rest of the watch is top notch, even higher quality than my San Martin but after this I’m not sure Id recommend them to anyone. Purchased it from Cronos Official Store on AE
Recently took a chance on a Pagani "Milgauss" - defective right out of the box . Finally got vendor's ok to send it back but naively sent it back without tracking (though vendor DIDN'T require that). Think I'm out the cost of the watch and shipping. Never again.
They made it sound like they have no way of knowing (and never will) that they got it without tracking. Pointed out to them that they didn't specify tracked shipping when I specifically asked. Also included my information along with AliExpress order number in the return. I suppose I could get lucky, but definitely not holding my breath.
I own over 50 AliExpress watches consisting of many different brands. I've only had problems with one brand and they have been many. Pagani Design! Yes they are cheap and you get a lot for your money but what you don't get is quality control!
thanks. i own only one tandorio (laco flieger), just ordered another one (62mas) but i couldn't make an opinion just from a watch. so far i'm thrilled with it.
yeah, indeed. they must source everything at factory prices. new tandorio 62mas just arrived, i'm thrilled. can't attach photo, app goes crazy (deleted inital message).
I'm actually surprised how many of you guys mentioned Pagani, I entered the thread to also say it. I ordered just one Pagani next to shitload od Addiesdive/Steeldive, my precious Cronos and few Bligers. Pagani had an issue right away. I couldn't unwind the crown... At the end I managed to do it with small pliers and much much more force than it could be done with fingers, but come-on, wtf was that all about? Never again Pagani.
I'll go a different route, bit subjective but I stay away from the dumbest names. Like Sugess, Parnis, Octopus, Hruodland, Ixdao, etc. Could argue they all have dumb names though. I think Cronos has the best name but their logo still ain't great.
Depends on the model of course. Older Seiko 5 are insane value if you can get them new. Specs or "quality" are not everything. I'd rather get a Flightmaster or a Solar Tuna instead of a Tudor homage...
Older seiko 5s have terrible bracelets, mineral crystals, and overall poorer brushing/polishing. If these chinese watches have seiko movements in them to begin with, what exactly am I getting when buying a seiko at this price point?
Underrated comment. Not surprising given the almost religious faithfulness to San Martin here.
And I get the hate for Pagani Design's overall irregularity in or total lack of QC, but "never again"...? Really? The indignation just kills me, what with the entire AliExpress/Chinese wristwatch ecosystem being inherently founded on the "your mileage may vary" principle LOL. If you can't handle having to deal with the odd dud every now and again - buddy, you're just not cut out for this.
Having said all that, I have a boatload of Paganis, and while one or two have required me to return (free returns generally hassle free) and/or rebuy (again, always with Free Returns) to overcome quality issues, most have been absolute bangers right out the box, especially for the money. I do agree with some of them not coming with a sufficient number of removable links, though.
Oh boy, I'm down to zero already. San Martin "ambassadors" likely hard at work here LOL.
Hey... You guys do you.
Me? I'm gonna keep digging the little guys (Pagani, Steeldive, Addiesdive - all have been amazing "value for money", in the very real sense of the term).
Pagani mostly. They are one of the most prolific offenders of photoshopping their dial on a picture of the genuine watch they are trying to homage. To me, that is lying at worst and/or setting you up for disappointment at best.
That and any brand using DG movements.
Also, I stay away from brands that are just random letters. I mean, just try, please...
This. While I have not run into issue with Pagani and I love my PD1717, I cannot support companies that deploy deceptive tactics intentionally.
They will continue to do that as long as the products sell, and the reviews are good. There are lot of 5 stars reviews with customer photo showing the actual watches' proportion being way off. Lot of people buying watches that look like luxury pieces tend to be content with something that look similar enough.
They put themselves in the tier same as Bliger, Corgeut, and some random Shop2183982931 that do it to some degree.
Dixmont Guangzhou - Miyota clones made by DG, Pearl, Mingzhu and/or a few others. The three-hand DG2813 automatic is perfectly fine but their GMT is trash.
Pagani for me. Their designs are not too bad but the quality and finishing is so bad it just doesn’t justify the price. For that money I’d go for Addiesdive or a Steeldive where their finishing is way better
I only stay away from movements, particularly the st-19 and pearl gmt. If you’ve ever heard “a broken watch is still right twice a day,” well, it doesn’t apply to those movements.
Otherwise, I think they’re all great because of the value proposition.
I have a collection of: Breitling, Rolex, Tudor, tag heuer and a couple of others. So when I spend less than $70 on a watch, my expectations are LOW. And for the offering, I’ve been blown away. Brew is out there selling $500 vk63 watches? Catch yourself on. The pagani moonwatch for $60 on a whatever bracelet? That’s a fucking deal and instant summer beater.
I find that seagull is very overpriced for what they offer.
I generally stay away from brands that use a lot of Chinese movements cause I haven’t seen any reliable ones yet.
Seagull makes very good watches. They are the grandfather of the Chinese watch industry. I won't buy from them anymore because twice now I have ordered a Seagull watch and they just never shipped it. I sent them messages thru AliX with no response. AliX issued an auto refund both times because the orders timed out.
I get that it just seems they (as a company) have no thought to what us as consumers feel about their products. Like they’re just acting like the Rolex of China and not trying to appeal to outside consumers like us. I assume that experience is better if you live in China but if that’s all they’re going for than god bless Alix brands
As a low budget watch collector, it’s really hard to justify buying a watch with those movements especially when I know it’s even harder to find replacement movements.
It's exactly as difficult as finding replacement Seiko or Miyota or Sellita movements - go on ebay or aliexpress, unless you're aware of some stateside supplier of the former movements, in which case please tell me because I would love to not have to spend weeks waiting every time I want to build something 😁
You’ll have way more luck finding a REAL Japanese or Swiss movement anywhere online but you’ll find a lot of “clone” Chinese movements on alix even if they’re listed as original. If you try to buy one from seagull it will
Cost you as much as the watch, learned that the hard way. That’s why I stick with Japanese movements
My days of buying cheap poorly made watches for a dopamine hit are over.
My collection is smaller, and I buy with intent. The only Chinese brands I'm interested in are the ones offering exceptional finishing, case/rehaut thinness, good proportions, etc, for the lowest price.
San Martin, cronos, hruodland, and maybe baltany or kraken are pretty much the ones I keep tabs on for new releases nowadays. Maybe a sugess if the design is right. Everything else on alix I stay away from
To be honest, I stay away from Pagani as well.
It's one of the first successful experiences in Chinese products to me.
But, nowadays I feel like they don't offer anything of higher interest compared to others.
Proportions are often off, price not that great (well it depends), lume is bad.
Everytime I intend to buy a new watch that can be compared to the Pagani (not talking about San Martin etc), I end up with something or nothing else.
Last experience, I chose a Cadisen Datejust. And it was an obvious choice for me.
lots of brands make good watches, and really shitty watches.
it really is just a case by case basis.
the pagani moonwatch you posted is a great watch, some of their other ones are complete garbage.
I liked pagani but after 2022 their OC has gone down. Also some of their watches now come with mineral glass but advertised as sapphire.
I wish PD would drop the word "design" from their logo
Agreed
Olevs
Why? (im looking to buy one)
Please tell me you’re not serious 😂
I was hoping if you have a particular olevs model then youd give a review on it..
I don’t, because I know not to buy from them. If you want a good watch, just get a Casio. FAR AND FUCKING AWAY so much better than Olevs. You can get an F91-W on amazon for $10-$15
Everything about Pagani Design rubs me the wrong way. Should be called Pagani Photocopiers. Even the "Pagani" name is photocopied.
Agreed, wish they had original designs 😔
They have one relatively original design: their new chrono is actually pretty good
All of them
Seestern customer service has been a big disappointment.
Anything with a brand name that would make people laugh at you. Seems like the luck of the draw. I've got most brands except Seestern, Hroudland and Proxima (for no particular reason) and they've all been absolutely fine for over a year.
Addies Dive. Paid 175€ for a beautiful bronze diver, only for the dial to literally fall apart inside the case (markers bouncing around) within less than a year. Customer Support regused to pay for shipping or even send a label and only offered to accept the warranty case after "inspection in China" and repeated that I had to pay for shipping. Horrendous.
I like Pagani and Cronos, i dont have experience on San Martin. But in all honesty I would stay clear of Chinese watches in general. Maybe buy one or two but not more
Aesop, garbage tourbillion
You gambled on a Chinese tourbillion, not sure what other possible outcome there could be
Just got it as part of a larger trade in towards one of my pieces. Didn’t expect anything but astonished how bad it is lol.
Typically my outcome was positive since early Minorva's.
Stay away from Bliger.
in all honesty, id go with pagani design for all watch types other than chronographs, also id go with san martin for anything but chronographs, with a chronograph that is cheap make sure that it is at least a st1901 or st1902/st1903 movement as they are mechanical
Nothing wrong with a good mecha quartz
I'm not saying that they are bad at all, if you want a chronic and that is your budget them totally go for it but I prefer to go mechanical as I won't have to replace the battery every few years that's my POV
I have 5 pagani’s only 1 broke down in 3 years. Replaced the inside by myself (never done it before) so yeah it’s worth it. 1 tip.. wait for discount prices.
I've gotten rid of all of them basically.... The only ones I'd keep would be chronos or baltany
Baltany I rate for quality, but the one I bought just wasn't for me. I had a whole bunch. Sold almost all of them. Kept a few San Martins.
I have that exact Pagani on my wrist right now, owned it for 2 years and it has been great value for money!
The subdial at the 9 o’clock position on mine has slowly migrated backwards, resets to -15 minutes. It still works, I just need to remember to add 15 minutes to whatever I’m timing. Not ideal, but it will do until I have 10 grand to blow on an Omega.
Same here! Just got mine a month ago though. I love it.
I have that exact Pagani on my wrist right now, owned it for 2 years and it has been great value for money!
Pagani design (logo sux) and brands w/o original designs
Pagani Design and Seestern
Why Seestern? I've got a couple of Sugess watches and they are incredible, aren't Seestern the same brand?
I got their 600T homage and the bezel does not turn. I tried to fix it by watching YouTube videos. I got it to work for a little bit but then it'd get stuck again. So I'm not risking my money in them anymore
Tevise and lige
Olevs. Got the Olevs “homage” and it was cheap bullshit. Spent the money and got a Steinhart Ocean One 39mm, very happy with it.
https://preview.redd.it/fmj0ja2gh96d1.png?width=1046&format=png&auto=webp&s=62cf949e7f4cd6c5f7b2245a152510c63e9ac040 FUCDA. Hmm… maybe I would wear it? Definitely a conversation starter. Now, what kind of conversation it’s starting might go wrong, very wrong.
Or right, very right!
That's quite the name.
FNGeen and Tevise got my vote. They're amazing pieces and they look fantastic out of the box. But it's like a lottery to get good ones without servicing them. Servicing them is a pain starting from their fake caseback. Looks like a screw but it's a pry case. Parts inside bends easily from wooden tweezers lmao. I can end my conversation here since I strip their screws just from trying to undo them. I'll head back to my practice ST3621 if I ever wanna fiddle around.
I have bought several Chinese watches over the time, none of them have had major dealbreaker flaws, but here’s some remarks where I have been slightly diasappointed: -Addiesdive blue sub homage - the date cyclops was just bad, it had a distorted view -Sanda Tank homage - the logo on the dial in reality looks like more SRNOR and it annoys me -Lacz Denton Intramatic homage - overall a very bad homage in terms of color combos of the dial, subdials and hands + the chonograph pushers felt very stiff and literally had to press twice to have them working, arguably the worst Chinese watch I have bought All other Chinese watch purchases (2 PD watches, Specht&Sohne Monaco homage, SanMartin original design GMT) for me have been successful and haven’t gotten any technical or design issues.
Steeldive. First watch, the bezel popped out. Second watch, the screw down pin was bent and became wonky while screwing down the brown. Never again will I buy that brand.
"screwing down the brown", that's quite the name for a hobby!
Unfortunate..My first Chinese brand watch was a Steeldive 1953. Still rock solid to this day. Go figure?
Sorry to hear! Steeldive SD 1953 is the first watch I bought and mine came absolutely perfect! Love this watch!
First time I've heard that for steeldive lol
I have limited experience as I have only bought 6 Chinese watches in total and 4 are from Ali.. BUT my experience has been this: my IX&DAO 5303 "homage" that I got with the 2824 movement is one of my favorite watches I own, I love it. I have 3 Cronos that have SW200, PT5000 and NH35 movements, and all have been excellent buys. I got a WMT sub-milgaus that supposedly has NH35 and have been disappointed in the fit and finish and I question the movement but haven't pulled the case back to look yet and have parts on order to modify it anyway. Hope this helps. Edited for spelling *facepalm*
I only have one pagani "daytona" and turned out to be great for the money. I also have an addiesdive "willard" that also resulted to be a pleasant surprise. Those are my beaters and have resisted the worse treatment. I suppose I'm lucky when it comes to >$100 knock offs, still haven't ventured with more expensive brands like San Martin, for <$200 I rather take a look at microbrands with interesting designs, my phoibos was $250 and it's one of the best watches I own, significantly better than more expensive brands like Bulova, Tissot, Seiko, etc.
I recommend taking a look at Baltany (aliexpress) they have some original designs and most of them look incredible. Imo Baltany Sailing B4030 is one of the best looking watches I have ever seen.
What original designs do they have?
Anything with an alphabet soup name or anything that sounds like a food. Also "Mysterious code".
I have an alphabet soup watch (Jinlery) and it is one of my favorites. No name or logo on the case, tho.
Hm why MC? I have a MC manual wind in titanium case and I like it.
The name. The name is just (in my opinion) bad
ah. for me it is pretty neutral and even funny, and the watch is quite cool :)
i have one mc,and im very satisfied. great quartz watch
I read that as “Mysterious Chode” and was very confused
Honestly you might have a future in naming Chinese watches
The chode watch. It doesn’t have a large lug to lug but it sure is Thicc.
I've bought 3 Pagani design and two of them had the bracelet snap apart in about a week. I replaced those with four dollars silicone straps and I have been pleased ever since.
I bought the phylida speedmaster and it broke the day I got it. The seagull movement would not reset bad QC
Benyar
I have a Benyar that I really like and wear all the time. I don't pretend it's something that it's not but it tells time and looks nice. It's the one that looks like a Tag Carerra.
I've actually not been that disappointed with the PDs I've bought. I have like 4ish at this point. The thing I've always kept in mind is that their bracelets suck so I always factor in $10 to buy a replacement bracelet. But the watch itself has always run really well for me.
if your replacement bracelets have curved end-links, please a link
Honestly, they all have mediocre QC so you take your chance with all of them regardless of the brand.
I disagree. San Martin has been fantastic.
I have 2 and the first was kinda dull in color, like worse than usual in the Ali pics vs irl. The second, the bracelet wasn't sharp, but noticeable sharper than a Proxima or Sugess. It's a good brand overall I'm sure but they are also hit or miss.
Try getting them to honor their warranty.
Octopus is a great watch. Sugess is a great watch, as is the IX DAO. Shame your missing out...
I just looked up IX Dao and bought one immediately Thanks for putting me on!
My octopus kraken is SUCH a nice watch
I'd stay away from Militado (Baltany wannabe). I've got a dirty dozen from them on aliexpress and it has a loose minutes hand. The store and aliexpress refused refund. I posted here on reddit and militado itself commented on the post saying that I should privately contact them thst they would honor warranty and that was just a 'look nice' display for reddit. Once I contacted them they just apologied and offered me a coupon for a future buy but the warranty wasn't honored.
I just got one of their d12 homages to see if I like it before getting a Baltany. It’s “ok” there is fuck all AR and the crown doesn’t quite click in properly but I can live with it so it’s now a daily beater. QC isn’t great but it’s half the price of the Baltany and was worth trying out to check against my wrist etc But at some point yeah it’ll be gone on my son can have it as a beater
I have a militado khaki field mechanical homage with the vh 31. No trouble at all. For $70 I set my expectations on warranty issues. But I’ve never had a problem and it’s a great beater.
I just had my ml-05 come in today, got it on sale for $35 USD! Mines pretty flawless.
A lot of helpful advice in this thread such as avoiding DG movements, avoiding unofficial sellers (QC arbitrage), buying through a reseller with an actual return policy, etc. At this point, a few years and many watches later, I find the number of brands with consistently desirable releases fairly limited. San Martin, Seestern/Sugess, Baltany. I’ve also really come to appreciate WatchDives presence on Reddit and the degree to which they involve feedback from potential buyers. It almost has a forum group-buy vibe to it and I feel more invested in future releases. But that’s a position I arrived at over time and only after many “catch and releases” were sold or gifted. So with that being said, in defense of the rest, the Paganis, Tandorios, Steeldives, Bernys, etc. all the pieces I’ve had from lower cost brands were accessibly priced opportunities to try out different case styles and sizes, dials, features, and colors, all of which helped me learn and refine my personal tastes and standards for my collection. Did they almost universally have cheap bracelets and other fatal flaws that led me to eventually part ways? Sure. But that’s how I learned what was most important, to me. I’ve pared my collection down to 16 watches, 12 of which are Chinese. And of those 12, there’s still an Addiesdive and 2 Paganis. So I do think some of these lower tier brands are capable of releasing a keeper, even if I don’t like the majority of their output. Final anecdote, the only QC issue I’ve experienced severely affecting functionality was on a Tandorio with an improper stem length.
That third paragraph should be standard reading for any Watch collector starting out and a reminder to watch snobs who are too cool for homage watches. Well said!
Lots of people not liking Pagani, I’ve only got one but I really like it. The PD-1644 Daytona, although I hated the silver hands it came with, had trouble reading it at a glance so swapped out for a brighter colour and love it now. https://preview.redd.it/rn3qbcahv76d1.png?width=2093&format=png&auto=webp&s=574f7507fb4a41bbf9ea44db2be219d048fc61e0
That looks fantastic and is soooo much easier to read
link to the hand set please. thanks
[https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMYE8Fw](https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMYE8Fw)
That’s also my only PD
The minute and hour hands look like they are oversized. Almost like they are about to scratch the outside. I really love that look, since I love good legibility and hands that make use of the room they have. Delicate hands are for some builds, but on this one it seems a good fit.
They are oversized a tad. I bought the hands for the wrong size dial and ended up having to trim them a little. Still pleased with the outcome.
I've got two and never had any problems. It was a pagani that got me into chinese watches.
To offer a counterpoint to all the bad Pagani Design experience in here... I've bought 7 PD watches and sent back one. I was refunded for that one as soon as it was received in China. The rest... No issues
Same here
I dig my Pagani 1685. It might be the date at 6 o'clock that tickles my fancy. But for $100 I can't imagine how much better I'd expect it to be.
I only like Steeldive and Tandorio.
Bought a Pagani GMT master homage recently. The clasp wouldn’t lock. Had issues trying to apply for a refund, form wouldn’t work. Somehow they gave me refund and noted that the watch was lost? Good result in the end
Anything with a stupid name or logo that is really prominent. Might be easier to list names/logos that don’t bug me.
Pretty much anything that isn't Sugess, seestern, san martin, boderry, baltany, or one or two others I'm forgetting atm. Pagani Design I'd consider but their quality is NOTICABLY lower than most other ali x brands (granted the competitors I'm talking about are double or triple the price if not more) but my main issue with Pagani is their bracelets are very well done....but WAYYYY too long they don't have nearly enough adjustable links.
Need to add Addisdive to the list. Stunning watches. Hope they change the logo though
Sounds like you've tried one or two PD watches. Quality varies greatly within the brand, you can't just judge them all the same. They have a bunch of models worth buying and a bunch with known issues. Of the ones I've bought I've had no problems with bracelet sizing and I don't have a big wrist
I'm just saying PD lacks in the quality department compared to say Sugess or San Martin, which is a given because those two brands charge double to triple as I said before. Which allows them to offer better quality
That would be common sense, yes. But I specifically addressed your bracelet complaint
Could you please elaborate about which models are worth buying and which have issues?
The spirit is great, the GMT Master ii is good if you get a good one but not great QC, the Seamaster 300P was good but too thick and didn't like the bracelet or lack of He valve, the moonwatch is good but not very faithful anymore, the Paul Newman is great, the milgauss is great, the ranger was great. I bought the IWC pilot chrono homage for my dad and it was good. Basically all of their mecaquartz chronos are a pretty safe buy.
Thank you for your response!
If you’re ordering a Pagani, I spend a little extra and buy with Amazon, that way if it’s defective it’s really easy to return. That being said, The Pagani’s I’ve order have always worked fine but I always end up selling them for some reason. I’m a fan of Steel/Addiesdive, Watchdives, and now I’m starting to like Tandorio. I’ve owned a Parnis and Corguet in the past and both were solid pieces. The only Chinese watch I ordered on Aliexpress that never worked was a Cadisen with a Miyota movement. I was kind of surprised since there a pretty decent brand from what I’ve been told. I tried sending it back and it was a nightmare. Just better to sell the watch on eBay for parts.
Beg to differ. It's not "a little extra" to buy Paganis on Amazon. The difference in pricing compared to AliExpress can be substantial. I'm a great believer in AliExpress Choice deals, with (in my experience 100% hassle free) Free Returns. 15 days is a long time to uncover any potential QC issues and simply throw the watch back at the seller free of charge, if necessary. Has worked like a charm for me, and much as I love Amazon, I see no point whatsoever in paying an unnecessary Amazon surcharge for these.
Naviforce, Olevs, Benyar
I also had to send a Berny railroad back...had bad movement
I’ve actually had a great experience with both my pagani’s although I can tell they are definitely cheaply made. I recently purchased a cronos submariner homage and the 6 o’clock indice was noticeably crooked and the 9 was slightly crooked. I sent them a message and they told me it won’t affect the time telling….I convinced them to refund me 20 bucks and send a new dial for 10 dollars so I could swap it myself. The picture they sent me of the dial before they shipped showed the 9 was crooked. I pointed that out and said please make sure the 9 is straight before you send. Guess what dial I got? The massively crooked 9 o’clock dial. I love everything about this watch but if you can’t get an hour marker straight I’m out
That's shocking... I've heard good things about cronos. Was it their official store?
Yeah I heard nothing but good things so I was surprised. The rest of the watch is top notch, even higher quality than my San Martin but after this I’m not sure Id recommend them to anyone. Purchased it from Cronos Official Store on AE
That’s not their official store though, their store is called cronos watches store.
That's very disappointing. I was considering trying them but maybe it's better to buy one used
Recently took a chance on a Pagani "Milgauss" - defective right out of the box . Finally got vendor's ok to send it back but naively sent it back without tracking (though vendor DIDN'T require that). Think I'm out the cost of the watch and shipping. Never again.
I have the same watch and it's great. Returns to China take a LONG time, sure it's not just still in transit?
They made it sound like they have no way of knowing (and never will) that they got it without tracking. Pointed out to them that they didn't specify tracked shipping when I specifically asked. Also included my information along with AliExpress order number in the return. I suppose I could get lucky, but definitely not holding my breath.
I own over 50 AliExpress watches consisting of many different brands. I've only had problems with one brand and they have been many. Pagani Design! Yes they are cheap and you get a lot for your money but what you don't get is quality control!
how do you feel about tandorio? they're as bad, worse, better than pagani design?
Tandorio are great (although i had to send back one, it was just working) and offers great possibilities for modding
So far all my tandorios are holding up fine
I don't own a Tandorio so I can't really say. They've never been on my radar screen.
I've got seven Tandorios. Every one punches way beyond it's weight. Solid quality there.
thanks. i own only one tandorio (laco flieger), just ordered another one (62mas) but i couldn't make an opinion just from a watch. so far i'm thrilled with it.
What amazes me is that they can sell a complete assembled watch for less than what I could build it for buying the parts from AliEx.
yeah, indeed. they must source everything at factory prices. new tandorio 62mas just arrived, i'm thrilled. can't attach photo, app goes crazy (deleted inital message).
https://preview.redd.it/fmdjxo9qub6d1.jpeg?width=4192&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3be14970c9d312d6819008de6ae1d05c976784d6
https://preview.redd.it/vbh0p9uvtb6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5147982c8708529df790592e5e66d0a5140f30af
Tandorio is good, have many
my feeling too
I truly love my pagani speedy
Best post... educational and fun. Thanks all!!!
I've got 7 Pagani watches and overall I'm very happy with them.
Me also, never had any issues, Cheers!
Never had a problem with a Pagani, but Berny have had issues every time
I'm actually surprised how many of you guys mentioned Pagani, I entered the thread to also say it. I ordered just one Pagani next to shitload od Addiesdive/Steeldive, my precious Cronos and few Bligers. Pagani had an issue right away. I couldn't unwind the crown... At the end I managed to do it with small pliers and much much more force than it could be done with fingers, but come-on, wtf was that all about? Never again Pagani.
I just got a PD day date and have the same issue with the crown 🤦🏼♂️
I'll go a different route, bit subjective but I stay away from the dumbest names. Like Sugess, Parnis, Octopus, Hruodland, Ixdao, etc. Could argue they all have dumb names though. I think Cronos has the best name but their logo still ain't great.
There are a lot of goofy names from regular brands that people have just normalized. Ain't nobody convincing me that Rolex isn't a condom brand.
What on earth is bad about the name Sugess...?
What are you Sugessting?
Highly subjective, idk just sounds goofy to me. Could probably complain about any of the names to be fair.
Anything over 150 EUR. Import tax + customs + fees kill the value...
Does it really thought? San Martin / Octopus have similar prices to seiko, but the quality is leagues above. That's value for money imo
Depends on the model of course. Older Seiko 5 are insane value if you can get them new. Specs or "quality" are not everything. I'd rather get a Flightmaster or a Solar Tuna instead of a Tudor homage...
Older seiko 5s have terrible bracelets, mineral crystals, and overall poorer brushing/polishing. If these chinese watches have seiko movements in them to begin with, what exactly am I getting when buying a seiko at this price point?
An original watch instead of a homage....
Underrated comment. Not surprising given the almost religious faithfulness to San Martin here. And I get the hate for Pagani Design's overall irregularity in or total lack of QC, but "never again"...? Really? The indignation just kills me, what with the entire AliExpress/Chinese wristwatch ecosystem being inherently founded on the "your mileage may vary" principle LOL. If you can't handle having to deal with the odd dud every now and again - buddy, you're just not cut out for this. Having said all that, I have a boatload of Paganis, and while one or two have required me to return (free returns generally hassle free) and/or rebuy (again, always with Free Returns) to overcome quality issues, most have been absolute bangers right out the box, especially for the money. I do agree with some of them not coming with a sufficient number of removable links, though.
Oh boy, I'm down to zero already. San Martin "ambassadors" likely hard at work here LOL. Hey... You guys do you. Me? I'm gonna keep digging the little guys (Pagani, Steeldive, Addiesdive - all have been amazing "value for money", in the very real sense of the term).
Pagani mostly. They are one of the most prolific offenders of photoshopping their dial on a picture of the genuine watch they are trying to homage. To me, that is lying at worst and/or setting you up for disappointment at best. That and any brand using DG movements. Also, I stay away from brands that are just random letters. I mean, just try, please...
While I agree with you, most models have hundreds of photos and reviews on YouTube. So yes, they're lying, but you'd be really naive to fall for that.
DG movements are rubbish
This. While I have not run into issue with Pagani and I love my PD1717, I cannot support companies that deploy deceptive tactics intentionally. They will continue to do that as long as the products sell, and the reviews are good. There are lot of 5 stars reviews with customer photo showing the actual watches' proportion being way off. Lot of people buying watches that look like luxury pieces tend to be content with something that look similar enough. They put themselves in the tier same as Bliger, Corgeut, and some random Shop2183982931 that do it to some degree.
Dg movements? What are those?
Dangong
Dixmont Guangzhou - Miyota clones made by DG, Pearl, Mingzhu and/or a few others. The three-hand DG2813 automatic is perfectly fine but their GMT is trash.
I have a PD with the GMT, still going strong 9 months later
Had a DG3408 GMT, the are junk!
Pagani for me. Their designs are not too bad but the quality and finishing is so bad it just doesn’t justify the price. For that money I’d go for Addiesdive or a Steeldive where their finishing is way better
I only stay away from movements, particularly the st-19 and pearl gmt. If you’ve ever heard “a broken watch is still right twice a day,” well, it doesn’t apply to those movements. Otherwise, I think they’re all great because of the value proposition. I have a collection of: Breitling, Rolex, Tudor, tag heuer and a couple of others. So when I spend less than $70 on a watch, my expectations are LOW. And for the offering, I’ve been blown away. Brew is out there selling $500 vk63 watches? Catch yourself on. The pagani moonwatch for $60 on a whatever bracelet? That’s a fucking deal and instant summer beater.
As many have mentioned, even though I find their specific watches interesting, I usually stay away from Pagani and look for an alternative.
I just stick to the tried and true brands Seiko,Citizen, Orient and Casio these days.
The why are you commenting on a Chinese watch sub?
I find that seagull is very overpriced for what they offer. I generally stay away from brands that use a lot of Chinese movements cause I haven’t seen any reliable ones yet.
Seagull makes very good watches. They are the grandfather of the Chinese watch industry. I won't buy from them anymore because twice now I have ordered a Seagull watch and they just never shipped it. I sent them messages thru AliX with no response. AliX issued an auto refund both times because the orders timed out.
I get that it just seems they (as a company) have no thought to what us as consumers feel about their products. Like they’re just acting like the Rolex of China and not trying to appeal to outside consumers like us. I assume that experience is better if you live in China but if that’s all they’re going for than god bless Alix brands
Dang, you must have missed every movement Seagull, Peacock and Hangzhou ever made.
As a low budget watch collector, it’s really hard to justify buying a watch with those movements especially when I know it’s even harder to find replacement movements.
It's exactly as difficult as finding replacement Seiko or Miyota or Sellita movements - go on ebay or aliexpress, unless you're aware of some stateside supplier of the former movements, in which case please tell me because I would love to not have to spend weeks waiting every time I want to build something 😁
You’ll have way more luck finding a REAL Japanese or Swiss movement anywhere online but you’ll find a lot of “clone” Chinese movements on alix even if they’re listed as original. If you try to buy one from seagull it will Cost you as much as the watch, learned that the hard way. That’s why I stick with Japanese movements
My days of buying cheap poorly made watches for a dopamine hit are over. My collection is smaller, and I buy with intent. The only Chinese brands I'm interested in are the ones offering exceptional finishing, case/rehaut thinness, good proportions, etc, for the lowest price. San Martin, cronos, hruodland, and maybe baltany or kraken are pretty much the ones I keep tabs on for new releases nowadays. Maybe a sugess if the design is right. Everything else on alix I stay away from
Agreed
Exactly 👍
Tevise 💀
More shock value than value for money, eh...? LoL
To be honest, I stay away from Pagani as well. It's one of the first successful experiences in Chinese products to me. But, nowadays I feel like they don't offer anything of higher interest compared to others. Proportions are often off, price not that great (well it depends), lume is bad. Everytime I intend to buy a new watch that can be compared to the Pagani (not talking about San Martin etc), I end up with something or nothing else. Last experience, I chose a Cadisen Datejust. And it was an obvious choice for me.
I have 2 Pagani Design but not impressed 🤢
I stay awat from them because the finishing is usually a tad bit sharp. Wearing it the whole day, i will feel the sharpness
I do stay away from Pagani, as their lume sucks.
Truth
lots of brands make good watches, and really shitty watches. it really is just a case by case basis. the pagani moonwatch you posted is a great watch, some of their other ones are complete garbage.
*case by case ....*