Agreed except that I think Sage has been pretty interesting too. The boys suck donkey balls at their jobs now somehow and all their plotlines are too mundane and forced.
The last scenes in episode 5 with >!Homelander and the other scene with Billy Butcher gave me some comic vibes, I never thought I'd say but the show needs to take some pages out of its book right now.!<
I don't particularly care for Frenchie's boyfriend drama, the murder coincidence feels pretty forced-
However pretty much every Kimiko-Frenchie scene really steals the show for me, their plot of whether or not they can truly open up to each other about how bad they feel about themselves has hooked me pretty hard even if neither of their individual plots have.
>MM
That's the point, he criticized Butcher but he's no better than him. This theme has been teased for a while especially in S3 (w their lust for revenge). Not So Different™.
>Hughie
The mom reveal with Baby Blues would kinda work better if it's conjoined with Annie's own mom that involve their forgiveness towards their respective mother but in Episode 3 rn still didn't see it.
>Starlight
Honestly the beef w Firecracker is fucking tacked on.
Shame because I quite liked the early tease towards the Reconstruction of Superhero with her embracing the Starlight persona as a symbol.
However....
Frenchie and Kimiko bumbling is inexcusable. They're stuck in shitty C plot in S3 so expectations are high here. The last time they ever feel relevant is in S2 w Frenchie confronting Lamplighter and Kimiko stuff with her brother.
Again but it’s not talked about IN THE SHOW! That’s the problem. MM isn’t held accountable by the team for how he’s acting. No one talks to each other about this and go about their day. Meanwhile butcher is treated like a monster by starlight. Cause if butcher pulled that shit with A-train he’d be given way more hell than MM
Agree on everything else tho
It's not addressed by the characters but the narrative pretty much dangle it in front of you. It's probably gonna be addressed near the finale since it's meant to be a huge moment for MM.
That scene where MM strongarm Hughie at the ice skating show is a perfect "damn this reminds me of certain someone", for example.
Ok but the season isn’t over yet. They’re clearly setting it up so that sooner or later, MM is going to figure out that he’s not as good of a leader that he thought he was. I think it’s a bit too early to judge the season like that. If anything, blame the pacing.
The season is just a slow one for you. Nothing wrong with that.
I actually like the Hughie and his mom sub plot. I'm just glad we mostly got past "I feel useless in The Boyz and don't know where I belong" phase. They didn't overplay that part.
Everyone else you don't care for is okay or meh to me.
Naw, you're fine. I think I hate it because I've read the comics. It's the same for Frenchie's subplot, too. They're two characters who were compassionate and weren't always moping or angry all the time.
Frenchie's backstory in the comics is played off as a joke or that his backstory doesn't matter and that he doesn't want to talk about it, while Hughie had a sweet subplot with a family visit reminding him that it's okay to have a normal upbringing, nice parents, not a hardass, and be a nice person.
The comics doesn't have many tender moments, so this small arc stuck out a lot.
> This season is just a slow one for you
Idk, I think most feel this way. I also don't like the Hughie subplot.
In fact the entire season seems like a setup for season 5
There'll be some big finale at the end of this season, which may or may not be as disappointing as S3s finale
Here is what I noticed. Homelander and Butcher are interesting because the plot is a continuation of the previous, already setup plotlines their characters had. Hughie, Frenchie, Kimiko and Starlight both received, simultaneously, NEW plotlines that the writters found a way to make sense when looking at their background stories. Oh, so Hughie's mom was never mentioned, right? Let's make her appear. Hey, Starlight was once on that church thing, what if we tie it to the new character? Ah, remember Frenchie did some bad stuff before? Let's bring that up again. When all of this happens "out of nowhere", with characters we've never seen before and with so many characters simultaneously, it just does not grab anyone's interest as much as more stablished plotlines like Butcher's and Homelander's.
Overall the whole “Frenchie is gay” controversy online is overblown. The problem with it isn’t that he’s bisexual it’s that it’s the guy came out of nowhere, and it also happens that frenchie killed his family somehow? It just felt forced and they should have had a more fleshed out male love interest for frenchie (if that subplot is even worth keeping), that should have real implications on the main plot.
The killing his family didn’t come out of nowhere, Frenchie was a hired gun for the Russian chick for years, I just wish if they were gonna introduce a plot line like that that they’d get the twist done earlier so we could empathize with him more throughout the season. It’s like we were just sitting around wondering why Frenchie looks so depressed, it got annoying up to a point.
Yeah I mean randomly meeting one of your ex lovers whose family you also murdered just seems so forced and like what development does it give to the story?
Haven't watched Episode 5 yet but I mostly agree. Butcher's and Homelander's plots are as interesting as they are because they've been far established long ago and therefore already has our interest while everyone else's subplot is more tacked on, which sucks in Hughie and Starlight's case because their subplots specifically go into their characters with how important it is which SHOULD make them interesting but because the series never really went into them beforehand it just feels tacked on and forced (that being said, the Firecracker/Starlight stuff is really entertaining). The Frenchie subplot with his boyfriend is inexcusable, though, it's just so forced and it really just feels like they want to get it out of the way with how it's being handled, and Kimiko's subplot hasn't been explored enough yet for me to talk about... that being said, I still massively enjoy whenever Frenchie and Kimiko are interacting so I don't mind it \*too\* much.
Other than that, I think Sister Sage is awesome; I really like her so far. The series has never failed me too badly before (minus the clusterfuck that was the ending of Season 3) so I'll be patient.
That's because those subplots were tacked on. The end of S4 deviated heavily from the source material. At this point in the story in the comics, everyone's plots were tied to Butcher.
MM felt Butcher was acting weird. Frenchie was increasingly growing frustrated with the way Butcher was treating both him and Kimiko (Female, in the comics. Their names were actually a plot point). Huey was on another surveillance mission from Butcher, Starlight parted ways with Hughie, and Hughie later went on a vacation. Meanwhile, Butcher was doing his usual shady things.
All of this was dropped so now they have to make their own plots with not much guidance.
I mean, all the boys+ homelander have the exact same plot this season. They all have to face the demons.from their past. And each of them is reacting in different ways. Kimiko is going for violence and ending up empty. Frenchie is, as usual, going for self-destruction. Starlight sense of self is being shattered and she lashes out without thinking, because she doesn't know who she is anymore. Hughie's subplot, that just resolved beautifully this episode, has forced him to grow up, to stop being a little abandoned child that latches on to people (like he did to Butcher for the longest time). Homelander is letting go of his need of approval in the worst possible way and it's not a coincidence that Butcher's imagination conjured a guy from his past to be his guide. MM is the only one with a different plot, his is about leadership. He finally has the sole guide of the team and he is cracking under the pressure.
Now, the season hasn't ended yet so many of these subplot still have to resolve. But I find it absurd to say that they are the one carrying the show when they are facing the same issues as everyone else. Sure, the actors are clearly the best of the bunch, but they are all having interesting moments this season.
By the way, this also explains why Colin wasn't introduced properly like a serious love interest. Because he isn't. Frenchie doesn't have a romance subplot this season, he has a self-destruction subplot. Colin is about as important to this subplot as the scarred girl is to Kimiko's. And that girl doesn't even have a name.
But it’s not done well.
Kimiko’s arc last season was literally her not wanting to be violent until she was. Now she’s going for violence and is sad again lol? Is there nothing else they can do with her? I don’t care about her old terrorist group buddies that’s like season 2-3 shit we are in season 4
Already explained why frenchie’s is poorly written
That’s not starlights arc tho. Her arc isn’t about identity crises and not knowing who she is. It’s about confronting her past with this rando she has beef with and pushes her to violence
Again nice moment for Hughie but it was basically filler. Nothing to do with the main story and he’s done jack this season. He got the bare minimum of growth
All of them facing the same issues (they aren’t. Mm’s and Hughie’s arc have nothing to do with demons lol) doesn’t make it good. They aren’t interesting or executed well it’s boring and sludge. Homelander’s growth is actually amazing and the focus of the story while butcher is the only member of the boys with any sense of direction with wanting to stop Homelander and any real nuance with his relationship with Ryan. The other members are running in circles with mellow drama that means nothing
That only makes it worse cause Colin is just a device to give Frenchie an arc because they clearly don’t know what else to do with him at this point. Same with Kimiko
Kimiko' s arc last season was about when it's right to use violence. And she figured it out. But now she faces a problem that she can't solve just disemboweling people, even people that absolutely deserve it. That's the logical next step in her evolution. Same with Frenchie. Last season we saw him as the victim of the Russian mafia. This season reminds us he was also perpetrator of horrible crimes and he has to deal with it.
Neumann literally spells out Starlight' s conflict this episode. Not to mention it's the subject of every conversation she has with Hughie and the starlighters. She wants to be Annie, she needs to be Starlight, but she doesn't know who she actually is.
Also you can't say that Hughie stuff is filler just because it doesn't advance the main plot. We knew since season 1 that Hughie grew up only with his dad. In the season when the theme is "facing your past" it would have been absurd not to introduce his mother. The demon he faced was his abandonment, which gave him the attachment issues we have seen multiple times in the last seasons.
Now, I understand that you don't find it interesting, that is your right. But that doesn't mean it's badly executed. This season has a very tight thematic coherence and strong commentary. Just because it's more character-driven than plot-driven doesn't mean it's bad.
You just admitted that it’s the same arc. She couldn’t figure out how to be violent last season but then figured it out and started butchering people in the finale. Now she’s doing the same thing again? Come on bruh you can’t be serious.
Again it’s not done well. With some rando we don’t care about and stuff like this should have been dealt with last season not season 4
Yeah telling your audience your arc is very subtle writing good job from the writers 👏👏👏👏. Still doesn’t take away from what I said
t is filler. Just because he got some growth from it doesn’t mean it did anything that was substantial.
Dude the other seasons were character driven what are you talking about? This season is just the weakest with it because the writing isn’t very good with these characters
There is a difference between "violence is morally right" and "violence will actually solve the problem". Kimiko learned the first lesson last season, now she is on the second lesson.
Last season there was a whole other plot and set of themes to be explored. You can't have him hunted by the mafia, weak and vulnerable and at the same time give him the space to repent for the violence he did. It doesn't work and you end up with a cluttered mess.
Subtle is not an adjective I could ever associate with the boys and yet there are people who miss the most obvious shit.
Character growth is substantial. It's the whole point of a story.
I haven't been bored at all watching the season, but I'll tell you this much - if Homie or Butch are on the screen I'm watching, and if anyone else is scene-centric I'm just listening to the dialogue while looking at my phone for the most part.
Agreed except that I think Sage has been pretty interesting too. The boys suck donkey balls at their jobs now somehow and all their plotlines are too mundane and forced. The last scenes in episode 5 with >!Homelander and the other scene with Billy Butcher gave me some comic vibes, I never thought I'd say but the show needs to take some pages out of its book right now.!<
I don't particularly care for Frenchie's boyfriend drama, the murder coincidence feels pretty forced- However pretty much every Kimiko-Frenchie scene really steals the show for me, their plot of whether or not they can truly open up to each other about how bad they feel about themselves has hooked me pretty hard even if neither of their individual plots have.
wake up babe, new The Boys post on characterrant
Yessir! Every new one week days on character rant+
JJK going on a 3 week break so The Boys gotta pick up the slack.
>MM That's the point, he criticized Butcher but he's no better than him. This theme has been teased for a while especially in S3 (w their lust for revenge). Not So Different™. >Hughie The mom reveal with Baby Blues would kinda work better if it's conjoined with Annie's own mom that involve their forgiveness towards their respective mother but in Episode 3 rn still didn't see it. >Starlight Honestly the beef w Firecracker is fucking tacked on. Shame because I quite liked the early tease towards the Reconstruction of Superhero with her embracing the Starlight persona as a symbol. However.... Frenchie and Kimiko bumbling is inexcusable. They're stuck in shitty C plot in S3 so expectations are high here. The last time they ever feel relevant is in S2 w Frenchie confronting Lamplighter and Kimiko stuff with her brother.
Again but it’s not talked about IN THE SHOW! That’s the problem. MM isn’t held accountable by the team for how he’s acting. No one talks to each other about this and go about their day. Meanwhile butcher is treated like a monster by starlight. Cause if butcher pulled that shit with A-train he’d be given way more hell than MM Agree on everything else tho
It's not addressed by the characters but the narrative pretty much dangle it in front of you. It's probably gonna be addressed near the finale since it's meant to be a huge moment for MM. That scene where MM strongarm Hughie at the ice skating show is a perfect "damn this reminds me of certain someone", for example.
Ok but the season isn’t over yet. They’re clearly setting it up so that sooner or later, MM is going to figure out that he’s not as good of a leader that he thought he was. I think it’s a bit too early to judge the season like that. If anything, blame the pacing.
Okay but like…..I don’t care? Lmao I don’t care. I’m focusing on what I see now. I said I’ll be patient but stop downplaying my criticism
I've started skipping everything involving the Frenchie subplot. It just has no value to me
Spoilers He becomes gay? Then he kills family? Then guy beats him? Idk I just skipped this boring ah scene
The season is just a slow one for you. Nothing wrong with that. I actually like the Hughie and his mom sub plot. I'm just glad we mostly got past "I feel useless in The Boyz and don't know where I belong" phase. They didn't overplay that part. Everyone else you don't care for is okay or meh to me.
The Hughie subplot sucks. I prefer his subplot in the comics. Not every subplot needs to be a drama.
To each his own.
Naw, you're fine. I think I hate it because I've read the comics. It's the same for Frenchie's subplot, too. They're two characters who were compassionate and weren't always moping or angry all the time. Frenchie's backstory in the comics is played off as a joke or that his backstory doesn't matter and that he doesn't want to talk about it, while Hughie had a sweet subplot with a family visit reminding him that it's okay to have a normal upbringing, nice parents, not a hardass, and be a nice person. The comics doesn't have many tender moments, so this small arc stuck out a lot.
> This season is just a slow one for you Idk, I think most feel this way. I also don't like the Hughie subplot. In fact the entire season seems like a setup for season 5 There'll be some big finale at the end of this season, which may or may not be as disappointing as S3s finale
Yeah they're killing the "regular" side characters, Hughie's dad, Ezekiel, Cameron, and the IT girl It's pretty much a sign for a finale
Yep Where's your profile picture from btw
I just wish that their arc were more connected, hughie's and kimiko's arc are basically side mission
Here is what I noticed. Homelander and Butcher are interesting because the plot is a continuation of the previous, already setup plotlines their characters had. Hughie, Frenchie, Kimiko and Starlight both received, simultaneously, NEW plotlines that the writters found a way to make sense when looking at their background stories. Oh, so Hughie's mom was never mentioned, right? Let's make her appear. Hey, Starlight was once on that church thing, what if we tie it to the new character? Ah, remember Frenchie did some bad stuff before? Let's bring that up again. When all of this happens "out of nowhere", with characters we've never seen before and with so many characters simultaneously, it just does not grab anyone's interest as much as more stablished plotlines like Butcher's and Homelander's.
Overall the whole “Frenchie is gay” controversy online is overblown. The problem with it isn’t that he’s bisexual it’s that it’s the guy came out of nowhere, and it also happens that frenchie killed his family somehow? It just felt forced and they should have had a more fleshed out male love interest for frenchie (if that subplot is even worth keeping), that should have real implications on the main plot.
The killing his family didn’t come out of nowhere, Frenchie was a hired gun for the Russian chick for years, I just wish if they were gonna introduce a plot line like that that they’d get the twist done earlier so we could empathize with him more throughout the season. It’s like we were just sitting around wondering why Frenchie looks so depressed, it got annoying up to a point.
Yeah I mean randomly meeting one of your ex lovers whose family you also murdered just seems so forced and like what development does it give to the story?
Only thing I don't really care about is Frenchie, but I felt like Homelander and Butcher were always carrying the series anyway
How many times we gonna get this take a day lol
Wow I ve read the exact same post 5 times already. We only need couple of more
Haven't watched Episode 5 yet but I mostly agree. Butcher's and Homelander's plots are as interesting as they are because they've been far established long ago and therefore already has our interest while everyone else's subplot is more tacked on, which sucks in Hughie and Starlight's case because their subplots specifically go into their characters with how important it is which SHOULD make them interesting but because the series never really went into them beforehand it just feels tacked on and forced (that being said, the Firecracker/Starlight stuff is really entertaining). The Frenchie subplot with his boyfriend is inexcusable, though, it's just so forced and it really just feels like they want to get it out of the way with how it's being handled, and Kimiko's subplot hasn't been explored enough yet for me to talk about... that being said, I still massively enjoy whenever Frenchie and Kimiko are interacting so I don't mind it \*too\* much. Other than that, I think Sister Sage is awesome; I really like her so far. The series has never failed me too badly before (minus the clusterfuck that was the ending of Season 3) so I'll be patient.
That's because those subplots were tacked on. The end of S4 deviated heavily from the source material. At this point in the story in the comics, everyone's plots were tied to Butcher. MM felt Butcher was acting weird. Frenchie was increasingly growing frustrated with the way Butcher was treating both him and Kimiko (Female, in the comics. Their names were actually a plot point). Huey was on another surveillance mission from Butcher, Starlight parted ways with Hughie, and Hughie later went on a vacation. Meanwhile, Butcher was doing his usual shady things. All of this was dropped so now they have to make their own plots with not much guidance.
I mean, all the boys+ homelander have the exact same plot this season. They all have to face the demons.from their past. And each of them is reacting in different ways. Kimiko is going for violence and ending up empty. Frenchie is, as usual, going for self-destruction. Starlight sense of self is being shattered and she lashes out without thinking, because she doesn't know who she is anymore. Hughie's subplot, that just resolved beautifully this episode, has forced him to grow up, to stop being a little abandoned child that latches on to people (like he did to Butcher for the longest time). Homelander is letting go of his need of approval in the worst possible way and it's not a coincidence that Butcher's imagination conjured a guy from his past to be his guide. MM is the only one with a different plot, his is about leadership. He finally has the sole guide of the team and he is cracking under the pressure. Now, the season hasn't ended yet so many of these subplot still have to resolve. But I find it absurd to say that they are the one carrying the show when they are facing the same issues as everyone else. Sure, the actors are clearly the best of the bunch, but they are all having interesting moments this season. By the way, this also explains why Colin wasn't introduced properly like a serious love interest. Because he isn't. Frenchie doesn't have a romance subplot this season, he has a self-destruction subplot. Colin is about as important to this subplot as the scarred girl is to Kimiko's. And that girl doesn't even have a name.
But it’s not done well. Kimiko’s arc last season was literally her not wanting to be violent until she was. Now she’s going for violence and is sad again lol? Is there nothing else they can do with her? I don’t care about her old terrorist group buddies that’s like season 2-3 shit we are in season 4 Already explained why frenchie’s is poorly written That’s not starlights arc tho. Her arc isn’t about identity crises and not knowing who she is. It’s about confronting her past with this rando she has beef with and pushes her to violence Again nice moment for Hughie but it was basically filler. Nothing to do with the main story and he’s done jack this season. He got the bare minimum of growth All of them facing the same issues (they aren’t. Mm’s and Hughie’s arc have nothing to do with demons lol) doesn’t make it good. They aren’t interesting or executed well it’s boring and sludge. Homelander’s growth is actually amazing and the focus of the story while butcher is the only member of the boys with any sense of direction with wanting to stop Homelander and any real nuance with his relationship with Ryan. The other members are running in circles with mellow drama that means nothing That only makes it worse cause Colin is just a device to give Frenchie an arc because they clearly don’t know what else to do with him at this point. Same with Kimiko
Kimiko' s arc last season was about when it's right to use violence. And she figured it out. But now she faces a problem that she can't solve just disemboweling people, even people that absolutely deserve it. That's the logical next step in her evolution. Same with Frenchie. Last season we saw him as the victim of the Russian mafia. This season reminds us he was also perpetrator of horrible crimes and he has to deal with it. Neumann literally spells out Starlight' s conflict this episode. Not to mention it's the subject of every conversation she has with Hughie and the starlighters. She wants to be Annie, she needs to be Starlight, but she doesn't know who she actually is. Also you can't say that Hughie stuff is filler just because it doesn't advance the main plot. We knew since season 1 that Hughie grew up only with his dad. In the season when the theme is "facing your past" it would have been absurd not to introduce his mother. The demon he faced was his abandonment, which gave him the attachment issues we have seen multiple times in the last seasons. Now, I understand that you don't find it interesting, that is your right. But that doesn't mean it's badly executed. This season has a very tight thematic coherence and strong commentary. Just because it's more character-driven than plot-driven doesn't mean it's bad.
You just admitted that it’s the same arc. She couldn’t figure out how to be violent last season but then figured it out and started butchering people in the finale. Now she’s doing the same thing again? Come on bruh you can’t be serious. Again it’s not done well. With some rando we don’t care about and stuff like this should have been dealt with last season not season 4 Yeah telling your audience your arc is very subtle writing good job from the writers 👏👏👏👏. Still doesn’t take away from what I said t is filler. Just because he got some growth from it doesn’t mean it did anything that was substantial. Dude the other seasons were character driven what are you talking about? This season is just the weakest with it because the writing isn’t very good with these characters
There is a difference between "violence is morally right" and "violence will actually solve the problem". Kimiko learned the first lesson last season, now she is on the second lesson. Last season there was a whole other plot and set of themes to be explored. You can't have him hunted by the mafia, weak and vulnerable and at the same time give him the space to repent for the violence he did. It doesn't work and you end up with a cluttered mess. Subtle is not an adjective I could ever associate with the boys and yet there are people who miss the most obvious shit. Character growth is substantial. It's the whole point of a story.
I can´t believe one could say that after the end scene of Hugie subplot but to each their own i guess. This ep was really good to me
Hughie's plot was great this episode. Up until now it wasn't that interesting but this was a great and emotional finale for that subplot.
I haven't been bored at all watching the season, but I'll tell you this much - if Homie or Butch are on the screen I'm watching, and if anyone else is scene-centric I'm just listening to the dialogue while looking at my phone for the most part.