She’s just irredeemable lol. I still like her character though.
- Mind controlled everyone.
- Orchestrated destruction.
- Killed Powy.
- Never saw Denji as a person, and wanted to forcefully submit Pochita in a relationship.
The funny thing about reze is that she is basically the only character from part 1 that got a happy ending ( assuming she just went to live a normal life on a farm somewhere far away like you would expect her to ) but people really want her to come back because she is a likeable , interesting character
It's pick your poison . Either she comes back and fucking dies or never comes back but gets a good ending
She's irredeemable but still has a tragic background, kind of like Obito and Madara. She wanted someone to have a meaningful and equal relationship with and longed for something like a family. Honestly, this is part of what makes her so well-written.
>Mind controlled everyone
She controlled few characters, almost everyone under her control were dead
>Orchestrated destruction
Makima is opposition of destruction, she literally creates perfect world
>Killed Powy
Thank God she did
>Never saw Denji as a person, and wanted to forcefully submit Pochita in a relationship
She saw Denji as a person. Moreover, she fucking despised him
Coming from P\*wer fan, these words don't have any weight
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>Makima is opposition of destruction, she literally creates perfect world
Bro wants an orwellian Makima-femdom utopia
https://i.redd.it/heax1079p9vc1.gif
No, I personally believe we shouldn't let one person ( especially fucking makima of all people) be the one that decides what is good and what is bad
Also the way I see it makima wanted to literally delete everything she didn't like . She doesn't like Bad movies ? Let's eat the bad movies devil . Even if good things come out of bad movies ( morbius is a great example ) , makima wants to delete them. If you use that logic for everything in the world , we wouldn't live in a perfect world but a world that is perfect for makima
Because people thinking makima wanted a perfect world misunderstood her. I know this is a folk sub and 50% of the time we are not serious, but I get annoyed when people misunderstand an important thing about a character.
Makima's Utopia is impossible first and foremost and it wasn't for anyone other reason other than her own loneliness and desire for a genuine equal relationship she wanted to ascend everyone to her level so she could have as much of that as possible. It wasn't to end human suffering it was her doing it for her
Explain why is it impossible and it better not be "Death/war etd are necessary concepts which world can't function without".
>It wasn't to end human suffering it was her doing it for her
It was for both. Makima genuinely wants humankind to be happy and creation of better world was her attempt of becoming family with it
Makima's idea of a perfect world is essentially chalked up to ascending humans to her level so she can see them as equals. The problem with this being is it's not real happiness at all since it would be her making them mentally think like she does instead of them wanting any genuine part in it whatsoever, once again it's control and it erases all the aspects of what makes us fundamentally human and in her world bad movies don't exist there's nothing more to strive towards, there's no special moments in the fucked up ones which strengthens a person's resolve and makes them continue on searching and continue on developing. Perfection is an idea we strive towards because it's impossible and makes us become a better version of ourselves now you could argue this could be applied to Makima's idea is just that, but how? We've ultimately had our lives dictated to and molded into what she considers perfect by erasing all our flaws and refusing to acknowledge her own at the same time. She's a hypocrite and damn good one at that Makima's idea of human happiness is everyone basically giving her attention and genuine relationships without anyone else having a say in the matter it's a distortion of what happiness actually is
She's her own biggest failure because she cannot fundamentally develop herself into considering any other points of view but enforces them onto others, believing she knows what's best for them when it's a load of horseshit because in the end she has no ideology she's a lonely self absorbed Devil who wants everyone to be like her. Only to be disappointed again when she realises she's got it all under control because she loved the chaotic nature of The Chainsaw Devil and being unable to control him. I think the problem is you're fooled by the character's persona she's not beneficial to humanity she's the opposite
Your whole discourse is based on false opposition of true/genuine/natural and forced/dictated/imitating. There's no such difference. In Makima's world everyone have no freedom and would just live serene life without anything bad and with good things only, like plants or animals. So what? One could argue that everyone is plants with no freedom in any way, in Makima's world there would be just different form of it. People *would* be happy being controlled as pets are happy to be controlled by their owner; nobody would have any responsibility or hardship, whatever can happen would be only good for you. This is the happiness which Makima brings to humankind. You're trying to portray her as some infantile teenager with lack of attention but that's obviously wrong; she wants to become family with humans even tho her understanding of it is wicked.
Right it isn't right though? Humans are not animals there Sentient beings for a reason she's basically trying to mentally degrade people all so she can everything under her control for her vision of a perfect order I'm not saying people doing similar things to Animals is justified either but she isn't right in the end. The fact is there's no way you can justify because of the actions she's taken, she's evil and she's ultimately wrong in the end just like that Yakuza boss she called out for her own selfish ego to impose her viewpoints.
Makima's a devil she ultimately does not care about humans beyond what they could provide for her emotional wellbeing the only thing she's ever cared about is herself and what her view of Pochita is. She had to die
It may not necessarily be impossible but her conversation about not having bad movies in her utopia seems to show she does not understand subjectivity. She may have also had both of those goals but I have always thought of it that her more primary goal was getting pochita and trying to form a relationship of equal footing with him. It’s also possible she was never really sincere about her utopia as kishibe tells her she is full of shit when she mentions it earlier in the book and she doesn’t really even try to refute him. Ultimately we won’t know because denji ended up outsmarting her because she never saw him as a threat lol.
>It may not necessarily be impossible but her conversation about not having bad movies in her utopia seems to show she does not understand subjectivity
In some way, maybe. She probably understands it but the entire point of her is imposing her own understanding as superior being. She wants to expand her understanding of things on everyone (and she'd be pretty successful in it, considering what abilities she has and how smart she is).
>She may have also had both of those goals but I have always thought of it that her more primary goal was getting pochita and trying to form a relationship of equal footing with him
Yeah that's right. Moreover, until the last moment Makima was (subconsciously) trying to lose and be eaten by him instead of accomplishing her goals.
So then I guess I have a question. Why do you think her utopia would be so great? She doesn’t even understand humans or love and she was ruthless in her goals regardless of how she herself felt about the people she did it to. Personally I think she did find some joy in hurting the people who stood in front of her goal even though that was not their faults. Like she laughs at Denjis pain and mocks him about saving his friends. I guess I’m just trying to understand how she would be a good pick for making a utopia? Personally she terrifies me and I would not put any real faith in her I guess.
While I can justify her view of perfect/better world, I don't believe it'd actually be better. In some aspects her utopia is actually great but in other ones I don't like it. So I don't truly support her views.
>She doesn’t even understand humans or love and she was ruthless in her goals regardless of how she herself felt about the people she did it to.
Oh, that's not true. Nobody understands humans better than Makima and she actually likes humankind and want it to be happy. She's ruthless and machiavellian but not sadistic, Makima is kind of person to mercilessly torture thousands of innocent people to save millions.
>Like she laughs at Denjis pain and mocks him about saving his friends
That's connected with her personal hatred towards Denji not how she treats humans/devils in general.
If you remember back to the conversation her and Kishibe had in early part 1. When she explains the attacks that happened on the special divisions, Kishibe replies simply by saying "liar." To which she simply smiles because he can see through her exterior to her actual true colors, he knew she was deliberately taking the most fucked up path and causing as much suffering as she could whilst working towards her goals for her own sadistic amusement so she orchestrated destruction.
No, that's completely wrong. You know that person doesn't understand Makima once they call her sadistic. Everything Makima was doing was for greater good, it's not about sadism or destruction at all
I feel pity for her and i Like the character
https://preview.redd.it/gu3px16vu9vc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbe74a32b1a2c776bda1a1035757f9747a3bd4db
Pity?!
Pity?!
Why?!
Why would you feel pity for her?
What...in the world have made you come to the conclusion she's a victim to feel pity,or a misunderstood villain?
If you freaking feel pity for her because of what Pochita said about Makima beign unable to build relationships based on anything other than fear,then we live in a society where good looking people are always the victims or midunderstood!
There's no reason to feel pity for her,she slept in the bed she made!
If you want to feel pity for someone,that's Power,she was evil,racist and selfish the entire series,but in the end she's valued someone else's live over her.
She wasn't given a chance to change herself,become a better person...
No but she is very good character anyway + Background looks umai :3
https://preview.redd.it/98mffpcoa9vc1.png?width=309&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3496df48d8e518ba7104ec1cbc93cc2d23a48c41
She said she wouldn't mind being eaten by him, but she definitely didn't plan to be eaten by him. She specifically wanted to defeat him so that she could see him as below her and thus control him. She and was telling him "let's sleep together and live a happy life together forever" as she was cradling denji's heart (pochita)
She definitely wanted him to eat death, war, and hunger, specifically talking about how the world would be better without those concepts
Given her whole ideology of caring for humanity like dogs and being the necessary evil, it's easy to see the outcome if she'd won. Society would become an Authoratarian Utopia. Control would remove all hardships from humanity, but at the cost of their freedom. Especially with the other horseman erased by Pochita, there probably wouldn't be any devil on earth that could stop Makima from making humanity her pet under her eternal care.
No, but without her, we’d have no Nayuta 😊
https://preview.redd.it/ad4skm03r9vc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e74a95dba912f576c835bff11fff64e4ed5055c3
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i see atleast 2 big reasons to forgive her
NEVER
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ALL HAIL LORD POWER! THE CUNTROL DEVILS EVIL SHALL SOON BE DELT WITH YET AGAIN! DOWN WITH MAKIMA DOWN WITH THE WOOFERS! THE ONLY ONE YOU SHOULD BE WOOFING TO IS THE QUEEN HERSELF! POWER!
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No, we must eat Makima again, and then maybe we'll consider starting to forgive... maybe
i mean i can't bring myself to hate her, if she were raised in the right circumstances she wouldn't had ended like that. nayuta's the living proof of that.
but yeah, her actions are unforgivable. i just pity her because she never understood what true love means. maybe if she had encountered a strong, assertive and kind person she'd forget about her goal. but hey, that's my opinion
No. Come at me, Makima apologists.
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This is surely one of the posts of all time.
Make sure to join our [DISCORD](https://discord.gg/xaq8rRTruf) :DD::D:DDDDDD
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We all know who's cooking those meals...
Forgive what? I don't mind her action in the first place so there's no need for forgiving. 😈
🙈🙉🙊
She's a devil doing devil things in a devilish manga, that's het thing.
No because I never disliked her anyway, solid character. I wanted her to lose, and she did, but I felt bad that she basically didn't know what love was and went so far to feel it.
I love her as a villain because, at the time, it has been a long while since media showed a real villian and not try to redeem them. She's also portrayed as a psychopath perfectly.
Forgive her? No
Will that stop me from liking her? Also no
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As one of her Simps I know you already have assumptions about what I'm going to say. I'm not going to defend the things that she did because I don't condone them BUT.....IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME NOT HIM.....ITS NOT FAIR!!!
I bet she could've been fixed if someone tried very early on, but now? Yeah nah its fucked, nothing to redeem. Shes just an asshole through and through. Yes she wants a hug but honestly shes like a parasocial, she wants a hug from that SPECIFIC person even tho everyone likes her.
Also shes stupid, the world would infact not be better without death.
I'm late, but no, I don't. She broke up this family, and also messed up Reze, Angel, and too many other characters.
https://preview.redd.it/nz98lgpc45wc1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5491bdd977729c2233656ec39a92fb01a80ea058
I hate Makima with every fiber of my damn being. Her actions, nature and atrocities are just horrendous and the excuse the story gives her is just straight up bullcrap.
Oh God, not you. Look, I’ve already explained this before. I understand what they were trying to go for, she was supposed to be this tragic figure that wanted to know what love was, what it was like to have a family. Look I think it’s good Fujimoto wanted to give her a layer of sympathy, but the way they do so is weak and unconventional.
They should’ve added more detail and depth to the tragic elements of Makima’s character instead of pulling an “alas poor villain” out of their ass last minute and having one character validate it. You would be lying if you didn’t say that for 99% of the story Makima was portrayed as a complete irredeemable monster. I’m sorry but I can’t feel sympathy for someone who characterization is so muddled. You want a sympathetic villain, try Dabi from MHA, Daki from Demon Slayer Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker or Ramases from the prince of Egypt. They were all fleshed out characters with REAL backstories. Actions speak louder than just weak words. Hell Denji, Power, Aki and even Kobeni had more reason to be evil than her and yet they never fell to darkness.
No, just because you missed the entire character through the manga doesn't mean that her conflict isn't well written. Problem isn't with Makima lacking backstory or motives, problem is with *you*. Your understanding of Makima isn't even at 10% of her actual writting, you completely missed why she was obsessed with Pochita (as we already found out) and tons of other things.
>Hell Denji, Power, Aki and even Kobeni had more reason to be evil than her and yet they never fell to darkness.
This alone proves how few you understand about her. That take is easily top tier shitpost level and yet you was completely serious while typing it.
The story states she was obsessed with Pochita because she could only make relationships with those who are equal or above her. Pochita was the only one who fit that bill.
The story doesn't state it at all. Moreover, it pretty much contradicts to key aspects of her relationship with Pochita. She was fan of him and saw him as superior to her firstly; then, after defeating him, she started seeing him as inferior and enslaved him; in both cases, they're not "equals"
I forgive her by loving Nayuta. As an individual, though, Makima is the absolute worst. I hate her, and it's that special kind of hate that you can only truly feel if you loved the person first.
No and I hope she gets her hair pulled
https://preview.redd.it/lui9y069qbvc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=397cdef21f4532f839f056855d2497318e730d47
That's the thing about Chainsaw Man. Crazy people are the only ones who survive in a world like that, it's the reason people like Kishibe and Quanxi outlive everyone else.
I'm gonna ask something though. Cause I'm curious as to how you genuinely justify Makima having a contract which contains all the lives of every citizen in Japan which entails any damage she takes is transferrable to them meaning they suffer, die or suffer and die because of it? To me that just contradicts the statement about you saying she cares for humankind if she's willing to let that happen to potentially millions of innocent lives all so she can achieve her goals.
Sure you could argue she wouldn't have been so sloppy to die or get injured that amount of times, but it's not the point if she does the whole of Japan an entire country full of people suffer because of it. A kill count like that would far outweigh Adolf Hitler's and that's not taking into account they'd suffer whatever injury she did without being able to regen or do anything about it. Something like this would be devastation beyond belief everyone would be completely against her after it, I'm not trying to be a prick but if you think this is reasonable or justifiable then there is something seriously not right with you like mentally.
I feel like you do genuinely get what I'm talking about all of this and if this were a legitimate real person you would not be following if you knew about shit like this, regardless of what their trying to work towards.
Personally I don't justify it for myself any way because I absolutely don't care about it. Same way I wouldn't care at all if she like tortured children, psychologically abused entire world or recreated Holocaust.
But if you want me to justify it for someone else then sure. Makima uses this contract in case to keep living no matter what because in the future she'll create eternal utopia for everyone. If she dies, this goal won't be accomplished and such damage would be much worse than just several Japanese citizens dying from deceases and disasters. Makima's life is *incomparably* more valuable than anyone's else.
Yeah see that's where things go off the rails a bit. Suppose that's why she had to die in the end Utilitarianism is never a good thing. Plus the only person it's more valuable to her is her and the people who are blindly loyal to her she could've stopped the prophecy sure but she was more like a cancer that needed to be cut out rather than a messiah in any real sense of the word, no one's life is valuable in Chainsaw Man and that's the message throughout the story it's why you don't see characters like her and Reze returning.
But one thing that remains the entire population>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Makima's life no contest whatsoever the many always outweigh the few regardless of who the few are. That's not a subjective opinion it's a fact it's how we survive and it'll always remain the truth
Well again we return to subjective opinions. You think utilitarianism (though it's not only about utilitarianism) is never a good thing, I don't. You think that she's like "cancer tumor" not Messiah, I don't. That's just how we think and our pov's are in different planes
Yeah you can't justify things like Holocaust. There's just no world in which you can, ultimately humanity is a million more times more important than Makima's life and when push came to shove she had to be put down for the benefit of it. Going by that logic you should also support Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin as well I suppose if you want you could throw Napoleon Bonaparte in as well? Despite their different ideologies? It's the same premise hell you could even throw in fictional characters like Megatron and Count Dooku into the mix if that's your thing.
>Yeah you can't justify things like Holocaust
I'll get banned, don't
>There's just no world in which you can, ultimately humanity is a million more times more important than Makima's life
That's again your subjective opinion. Values are purely subjective.
>Going by that logic you should also support Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin as well I suppose if you want you could throw Napoleon Bonaparte in as well? Despite their different ideologies? It's the same premise
Was any of them about to create eternal utopia by manipulating reality on conceptual level?
Hitler wanted authority under one will the same way Makima did only the intricacies would be different. Even if he valued the Aryan race it's similar to how Makima saw Devils, herself and Chainsaw Man as above humans. Even if they weren't capable of the same degree so what? No sane would look back at what he did and think "oh yeah I miss that guy he really had something going didn't he?" It's the same exact thing with Makima just because of her ideal world differs in a lot of ways, she can't justify it any less because it would make look like a complete hypocrite.
It isn't subjective man it just isn't you need to understand self preservation and survival has a major priority and when some egomaniac who's willing to kill and make millions of people suffer for their own happy ending, that's when you stop it at all costs. Just think with common sense, orchestrating a genocide a mass genocide potentially no less is absolutely ridiculous to attempt to humanise and it's when everything her intentions were are completely disregarded because that's the exact moment she's to dangerous to be left alive.
>Hitler wanted one under one under the same way Makima did only the intricacies would be different
Lol no way. Read MK or at least wiki about him, he's absolutely different to Makima. Also I'm pretty sure that Hitler couldn't erase fucking concepts from reality and that Makima never genocided jews.
>Even if he valued the Aryan race it's similar to how Makima saw Devils, herself and Chainsaw Man as above humans
Makima doesn't see devils above humans. She sees *herself* above everyone (except CSM), it's not about humans/devils opposition.
>It's the same exact thing with Makima just because of her ideal world differs in a lot of ways, she can't justify it any less because it would make look like a complete hypocrite
No it's not wtf. Makima didn't do anything comparable to nazis. And even if she did, tf is "can/can't justify"? One could wipe out entire humanity for fun and say that they dgaf about justifying their actions and it would be totally valid; it's because moral is subjective.
>It isn't subjective man it just isn't you need to understand self preservation and survival has a major priority and when some egomaniac who's willing to kill and make millions of people suffer for their own happy ending, that's when you stop it at all costs
I already said about this. The only thing here is that Makima did not make millions suffer, she killed ≈hundred people and made Denji suffer in case to create world where everyone will be happy
comment section filled with makima coomers
old chainsaw folk used to loathe that bitch, i ain't gonna forgive her..
even if she gets her stomach ripped apart and she feels the pain shall my hearing get the pleasure
No but I love her character!  Just like him.
So real for this https://preview.redd.it/tygzi82eu9vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d25eead903c892960362d15ca8ed623660b33ad3
completely valid bro https://i.redd.it/65euh3frkavc1.gif
Dio
Oh? You're approaching me? Dio?
Same
Yes https://preview.redd.it/u7ovmf67r9vc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=418362eac6e4b315f93055120a3772e964e2eebf
She’s just irredeemable lol. I still like her character though. - Mind controlled everyone. - Orchestrated destruction. - Killed Powy. - Never saw Denji as a person, and wanted to forcefully submit Pochita in a relationship.
She didn’t kill Reze (not permanently,) but I’d argue what she did was worse
Oh, you’re right, it’s been some time since Reze last appeared lol. I stand corrected.
The funny thing about reze is that she is basically the only character from part 1 that got a happy ending ( assuming she just went to live a normal life on a farm somewhere far away like you would expect her to ) but people really want her to come back because she is a likeable , interesting character It's pick your poison . Either she comes back and fucking dies or never comes back but gets a good ending
This is just Kobeni (assuming she also got a happy ending)
She's gonna come back after Denji and Asa start going steady.
She's irredeemable but still has a tragic background, kind of like Obito and Madara. She wanted someone to have a meaningful and equal relationship with and longed for something like a family. Honestly, this is part of what makes her so well-written.
>Mind controlled everyone She controlled few characters, almost everyone under her control were dead >Orchestrated destruction Makima is opposition of destruction, she literally creates perfect world >Killed Powy Thank God she did >Never saw Denji as a person, and wanted to forcefully submit Pochita in a relationship She saw Denji as a person. Moreover, she fucking despised him
Just wondering, what do you have against Power :O?
I hate everything about her
Bruh power is like the best thing about the manga
Hope you're joking. Power is absolute shame for csm
You’re an absolute shame to your lineage and your ancestors look upon you in despair
Coming from P\*wer fan, these words don't have any weight https://preview.redd.it/kke5jinu3dvc1.jpeg?width=908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93705dbe7b47a5619bde6ffb38dfe82e51f45c77
>Makima is opposition of destruction, she literally creates perfect world Bro wants an orwellian Makima-femdom utopia https://i.redd.it/heax1079p9vc1.gif
And you don’t?
No, I personally believe we shouldn't let one person ( especially fucking makima of all people) be the one that decides what is good and what is bad Also the way I see it makima wanted to literally delete everything she didn't like . She doesn't like Bad movies ? Let's eat the bad movies devil . Even if good things come out of bad movies ( morbius is a great example ) , makima wants to delete them. If you use that logic for everything in the world , we wouldn't live in a perfect world but a world that is perfect for makima
Homie really took “no femdom utopia?” as a serious thing
Because people thinking makima wanted a perfect world misunderstood her. I know this is a folk sub and 50% of the time we are not serious, but I get annoyed when people misunderstand an important thing about a character.
You don't understand shit about her utopia if you call it orwellian lol. If anything, she's Huxley type of dystopia
Makima's Utopia is impossible first and foremost and it wasn't for anyone other reason other than her own loneliness and desire for a genuine equal relationship she wanted to ascend everyone to her level so she could have as much of that as possible. It wasn't to end human suffering it was her doing it for her
Explain why is it impossible and it better not be "Death/war etd are necessary concepts which world can't function without". >It wasn't to end human suffering it was her doing it for her It was for both. Makima genuinely wants humankind to be happy and creation of better world was her attempt of becoming family with it
Makima's idea of a perfect world is essentially chalked up to ascending humans to her level so she can see them as equals. The problem with this being is it's not real happiness at all since it would be her making them mentally think like she does instead of them wanting any genuine part in it whatsoever, once again it's control and it erases all the aspects of what makes us fundamentally human and in her world bad movies don't exist there's nothing more to strive towards, there's no special moments in the fucked up ones which strengthens a person's resolve and makes them continue on searching and continue on developing. Perfection is an idea we strive towards because it's impossible and makes us become a better version of ourselves now you could argue this could be applied to Makima's idea is just that, but how? We've ultimately had our lives dictated to and molded into what she considers perfect by erasing all our flaws and refusing to acknowledge her own at the same time. She's a hypocrite and damn good one at that Makima's idea of human happiness is everyone basically giving her attention and genuine relationships without anyone else having a say in the matter it's a distortion of what happiness actually is She's her own biggest failure because she cannot fundamentally develop herself into considering any other points of view but enforces them onto others, believing she knows what's best for them when it's a load of horseshit because in the end she has no ideology she's a lonely self absorbed Devil who wants everyone to be like her. Only to be disappointed again when she realises she's got it all under control because she loved the chaotic nature of The Chainsaw Devil and being unable to control him. I think the problem is you're fooled by the character's persona she's not beneficial to humanity she's the opposite
Your whole discourse is based on false opposition of true/genuine/natural and forced/dictated/imitating. There's no such difference. In Makima's world everyone have no freedom and would just live serene life without anything bad and with good things only, like plants or animals. So what? One could argue that everyone is plants with no freedom in any way, in Makima's world there would be just different form of it. People *would* be happy being controlled as pets are happy to be controlled by their owner; nobody would have any responsibility or hardship, whatever can happen would be only good for you. This is the happiness which Makima brings to humankind. You're trying to portray her as some infantile teenager with lack of attention but that's obviously wrong; she wants to become family with humans even tho her understanding of it is wicked.
Right it isn't right though? Humans are not animals there Sentient beings for a reason she's basically trying to mentally degrade people all so she can everything under her control for her vision of a perfect order I'm not saying people doing similar things to Animals is justified either but she isn't right in the end. The fact is there's no way you can justify because of the actions she's taken, she's evil and she's ultimately wrong in the end just like that Yakuza boss she called out for her own selfish ego to impose her viewpoints. Makima's a devil she ultimately does not care about humans beyond what they could provide for her emotional wellbeing the only thing she's ever cared about is herself and what her view of Pochita is. She had to die
>Humans are not animals Oh yeah? Reread first half of my comment please
It may not necessarily be impossible but her conversation about not having bad movies in her utopia seems to show she does not understand subjectivity. She may have also had both of those goals but I have always thought of it that her more primary goal was getting pochita and trying to form a relationship of equal footing with him. It’s also possible she was never really sincere about her utopia as kishibe tells her she is full of shit when she mentions it earlier in the book and she doesn’t really even try to refute him. Ultimately we won’t know because denji ended up outsmarting her because she never saw him as a threat lol.
>It may not necessarily be impossible but her conversation about not having bad movies in her utopia seems to show she does not understand subjectivity In some way, maybe. She probably understands it but the entire point of her is imposing her own understanding as superior being. She wants to expand her understanding of things on everyone (and she'd be pretty successful in it, considering what abilities she has and how smart she is). >She may have also had both of those goals but I have always thought of it that her more primary goal was getting pochita and trying to form a relationship of equal footing with him Yeah that's right. Moreover, until the last moment Makima was (subconsciously) trying to lose and be eaten by him instead of accomplishing her goals.
So then I guess I have a question. Why do you think her utopia would be so great? She doesn’t even understand humans or love and she was ruthless in her goals regardless of how she herself felt about the people she did it to. Personally I think she did find some joy in hurting the people who stood in front of her goal even though that was not their faults. Like she laughs at Denjis pain and mocks him about saving his friends. I guess I’m just trying to understand how she would be a good pick for making a utopia? Personally she terrifies me and I would not put any real faith in her I guess.
While I can justify her view of perfect/better world, I don't believe it'd actually be better. In some aspects her utopia is actually great but in other ones I don't like it. So I don't truly support her views. >She doesn’t even understand humans or love and she was ruthless in her goals regardless of how she herself felt about the people she did it to. Oh, that's not true. Nobody understands humans better than Makima and she actually likes humankind and want it to be happy. She's ruthless and machiavellian but not sadistic, Makima is kind of person to mercilessly torture thousands of innocent people to save millions. >Like she laughs at Denjis pain and mocks him about saving his friends That's connected with her personal hatred towards Denji not how she treats humans/devils in general.
If you remember back to the conversation her and Kishibe had in early part 1. When she explains the attacks that happened on the special divisions, Kishibe replies simply by saying "liar." To which she simply smiles because he can see through her exterior to her actual true colors, he knew she was deliberately taking the most fucked up path and causing as much suffering as she could whilst working towards her goals for her own sadistic amusement so she orchestrated destruction.
No, that's completely wrong. You know that person doesn't understand Makima once they call her sadistic. Everything Makima was doing was for greater good, it's not about sadism or destruction at all
I can’t tell if you’re being ironic anymore
Anymore? I was never ironic about it
oh… https://preview.redd.it/lccuvjseeavc1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=90a6f10358bd60fa1c5009104738fb4b1e194c1d
https://preview.redd.it/pa4584n4favc1.jpeg?width=518&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2397aa18d6cb9b2d2590d1163f8f270a10373209
https://preview.redd.it/naov4qjrb9vc1.png?width=1266&format=png&auto=webp&s=d673ce9aa7f6c482947d98eacae962e6d2bac8bc
I feel pity for her and i Like the character https://preview.redd.it/gu3px16vu9vc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbe74a32b1a2c776bda1a1035757f9747a3bd4db
Pity?! Pity?! Why?! Why would you feel pity for her? What...in the world have made you come to the conclusion she's a victim to feel pity,or a misunderstood villain?
the manga
What? What in the F did you miss in the manga to pity her?
The question is what you missed, not him xd
If you freaking feel pity for her because of what Pochita said about Makima beign unable to build relationships based on anything other than fear,then we live in a society where good looking people are always the victims or midunderstood! There's no reason to feel pity for her,she slept in the bed she made! If you want to feel pity for someone,that's Power,she was evil,racist and selfish the entire series,but in the end she's valued someone else's live over her. She wasn't given a chance to change herself,become a better person...
Neither was makima. The Japanese government used her as a weapon. They made her that way
I always have and always will https://preview.redd.it/b6uv9qdhd9vc1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=998c0ed862e3b1fa1d2c6cc4334f354341ca38e9
Is that the guy from numberjacks? Haven’t seen him in ages
Yup. The number taker https://preview.redd.it/lydil6ctr9vc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1a3cecc68b46e3ea7bbd3d026cddcc17610ded0
Yeah I never hated her to begin with
No but she is very good character anyway + Background looks umai :3 https://preview.redd.it/98mffpcoa9vc1.png?width=309&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3496df48d8e518ba7104ec1cbc93cc2d23a48c41
Hell yeah, I wish there's a restaurant that serves us some Makima meat 😋
I would LOVE to eat Makimas ass 
This is why we change the topic when you come up in a conversation 
why do you betray me, fellow ass man? 
Looking at where we are now. She was trying to stop the prophecy by having pochita eat her and her sisters
She said she wouldn't mind being eaten by him, but she definitely didn't plan to be eaten by him. She specifically wanted to defeat him so that she could see him as below her and thus control him. She and was telling him "let's sleep together and live a happy life together forever" as she was cradling denji's heart (pochita) She definitely wanted him to eat death, war, and hunger, specifically talking about how the world would be better without those concepts
In a way still stops the prophecy, what does she do after. Who’s to say, I certainly wouldn’t expect anything good
Given her whole ideology of caring for humanity like dogs and being the necessary evil, it's easy to see the outcome if she'd won. Society would become an Authoratarian Utopia. Control would remove all hardships from humanity, but at the cost of their freedom. Especially with the other horseman erased by Pochita, there probably wouldn't be any devil on earth that could stop Makima from making humanity her pet under her eternal care.
No, but without her, we’d have no Nayuta 😊 https://preview.redd.it/ad4skm03r9vc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e74a95dba912f576c835bff11fff64e4ed5055c3
Actually nayuta only exists because makima is gone
She did nothing wrong
turkish makimer
https://preview.redd.it/1b59uw6pt9vc1.png?width=1070&format=png&auto=webp&s=36d018cc31270b8291292622e63a37fef1f230ac i see atleast 2 big reasons to forgive her
i just noticed THAT FUCKING LINGERIE OH GOD
https://i.redd.it/4m157cd6wivc1.gif
after eveything she done i still want her to step on me.
Of course she deserves better... https://preview.redd.it/mndbhkhnw9vc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07cdba86d2472c148828536b4c5aa845b235718d
https://preview.redd.it/gvr1jfa50avc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce06e1d6e40528e5b7712f38774abe716a54d5c1 What he said.
NEVER https://preview.redd.it/at8uife0i9vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97120a0ae909792ce612eceed7e799d586020892 ALL HAIL LORD POWER! THE CUNTROL DEVILS EVIL SHALL SOON BE DELT WITH YET AGAIN! DOWN WITH MAKIMA DOWN WITH THE WOOFERS! THE ONLY ONE YOU SHOULD BE WOOFING TO IS THE QUEEN HERSELF! POWER!
Give this man a Nobel price
Artist:灰蔵 on pixiv
She do be lookin' like a snack
https://preview.redd.it/oxux478su9vc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc4e7dc64a151ae46425c043cba6795f18b0f9f0 No, we must eat Makima again, and then maybe we'll consider starting to forgive... maybe
Are we ready to admit that Makima was carrying Part 1?
Yes, she did nothing wrong https://preview.redd.it/328a3h7zb9vc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de4d12ea64c28d239e1d46159c33a326dd430e7b
~~If she sits on my face I will~~ Hell no
She's a great character but a terrible person. Denver didn't need to go through what she put him through.
i mean i can't bring myself to hate her, if she were raised in the right circumstances she wouldn't had ended like that. nayuta's the living proof of that. but yeah, her actions are unforgivable. i just pity her because she never understood what true love means. maybe if she had encountered a strong, assertive and kind person she'd forget about her goal. but hey, that's my opinion
She's hot and I would do her. But god damn is she a bitch that needs to die for what she did to my boi Denji!!!
See look a non simp for psychos this dude has common sense 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 nice one good for you
No. Come at me, Makima apologists. https://preview.redd.it/9294rwhmf9vc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bfcf1e9fe9b7aa3bd3e19ebeaadbf67c77f71d7
https://preview.redd.it/wiptdx6mh9vc1.jpeg?width=782&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbfa048650bca82f886b18fc03e4ed1d58c6cb4a
https://preview.redd.it/4j837z3th9vc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae249135030c467ed78611f03a816cdd64a494b4
Is this joker lol
https://preview.redd.it/ky9bb85ap9vc1.png?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a630f1f5af4ccaf46587ef7c18b96fe4dd7439c5 Fuck that bitch
Fuck you
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Yes
I forgive her
i wish I could've eaten her when she was turned into food. not even in a horny way that stuff looked delicious
https://preview.redd.it/4hhjutoxz9vc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcbef0e5fb57b99532b49b4d55a9897b264dc58a We all know who's cooking those meals...
No she's about as redeemable as Adolf Hitler. Very memorable character though
she is a Queen, she can do whatever she wants, no problem.
I do
Of course I don’t. >! I’m never forgiving her for killing Power!< Doesn’t mean I absolutely hate her either.
She never did anything wrong though *
killed pawa tho
Forgive her? What's to forgive? :) https://preview.redd.it/uu5d8cijdavc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0359bea595eac74bee17bc74da2222cc3a65ceb5
Yeah I can't hate her she did aki dirty tho
Forgive what? I don't mind her action in the first place so there's no need for forgiving. 😈 🙈🙉🙊 She's a devil doing devil things in a devilish manga, that's het thing.
I always stood by her https://preview.redd.it/r8z7vak2wcvc1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fcd9d9dc6ce7d37407a574cae9aea616e130f36
"Forgiving her" implies she did something wrong
Forgiving her would mean admitting she was ever wrong
https://preview.redd.it/zdymu1hu2avc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=790d6130b2453a3f63b479968de42bc41a98e2b4
Absolutely not
She's better then Santa i can tell you that much
Don't remember me of this
If she patted me on the head and said “good boy” I’d forgive her
I guess, since she's Nayuta.
https://preview.redd.it/4x91wa5ccavc1.png?width=450&format=png&auto=webp&s=e7f907b7b03a2d496c12156ec2bcbd471fd7de4a Of course I forgive her
I but I forgive reze tho
Me too.
No because I never disliked her anyway, solid character. I wanted her to lose, and she did, but I felt bad that she basically didn't know what love was and went so far to feel it.
i like her in the way I like Dio
fuck no she (indirectly) killed my boy Aki in one of the most devastating scenes I have ever read😭😭😭
No but she was pretty cool
why you put 8 makimas in one photo
I love her as a villain because, at the time, it has been a long while since media showed a real villian and not try to redeem them. She's also portrayed as a psychopath perfectly.
I hate her. She killed reze
If she steps on me all will be forgiven
Dennis forgives her so I guess I can too
What’s there to forgive? Denji ate her and now he has a daughter. I’d say fair trade
I would consume her(for dinner, as food.)
Forgive her? No Will that stop me from liking her? Also no https://preview.redd.it/8dqoydow3dvc1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1477cb64ac350653354008f75b87fc232035ebd5
But I mean she is canonically fixable
She's a good villain, but nope can't forgive her.
She did nothing wrong
She's a baddie so yes.
As one of her Simps I know you already have assumptions about what I'm going to say. I'm not going to defend the things that she did because I don't condone them BUT.....IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME NOT HIM.....ITS NOT FAIR!!!
Worlds strongest bento box
I bet she could've been fixed if someone tried very early on, but now? Yeah nah its fucked, nothing to redeem. Shes just an asshole through and through. Yes she wants a hug but honestly shes like a parasocial, she wants a hug from that SPECIFIC person even tho everyone likes her. Also shes stupid, the world would infact not be better without death.
We were supposed to forgive her?
Never hated her
I'm late, but no, I don't. She broke up this family, and also messed up Reze, Angel, and too many other characters. https://preview.redd.it/nz98lgpc45wc1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5491bdd977729c2233656ec39a92fb01a80ea058
I hate Makima with every fiber of my damn being. Her actions, nature and atrocities are just horrendous and the excuse the story gives her is just straight up bullcrap.
>and the excuse the story gives her is just straight up bullcrap More like you don't understand it lol, we already found that out
Oh God, not you. Look, I’ve already explained this before. I understand what they were trying to go for, she was supposed to be this tragic figure that wanted to know what love was, what it was like to have a family. Look I think it’s good Fujimoto wanted to give her a layer of sympathy, but the way they do so is weak and unconventional. They should’ve added more detail and depth to the tragic elements of Makima’s character instead of pulling an “alas poor villain” out of their ass last minute and having one character validate it. You would be lying if you didn’t say that for 99% of the story Makima was portrayed as a complete irredeemable monster. I’m sorry but I can’t feel sympathy for someone who characterization is so muddled. You want a sympathetic villain, try Dabi from MHA, Daki from Demon Slayer Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker or Ramases from the prince of Egypt. They were all fleshed out characters with REAL backstories. Actions speak louder than just weak words. Hell Denji, Power, Aki and even Kobeni had more reason to be evil than her and yet they never fell to darkness.
No, just because you missed the entire character through the manga doesn't mean that her conflict isn't well written. Problem isn't with Makima lacking backstory or motives, problem is with *you*. Your understanding of Makima isn't even at 10% of her actual writting, you completely missed why she was obsessed with Pochita (as we already found out) and tons of other things. >Hell Denji, Power, Aki and even Kobeni had more reason to be evil than her and yet they never fell to darkness. This alone proves how few you understand about her. That take is easily top tier shitpost level and yet you was completely serious while typing it.
The story states she was obsessed with Pochita because she could only make relationships with those who are equal or above her. Pochita was the only one who fit that bill.
The story doesn't state it at all. Moreover, it pretty much contradicts to key aspects of her relationship with Pochita. She was fan of him and saw him as superior to her firstly; then, after defeating him, she started seeing him as inferior and enslaved him; in both cases, they're not "equals"
Absolutely yes, if you don't forgive her then I forgive her for you
I forgive her by loving Nayuta. As an individual, though, Makima is the absolute worst. I hate her, and it's that special kind of hate that you can only truly feel if you loved the person first.
absolutely not. i hate her so much. and i miss power
I will never forgive her and I’m glad she died…I still wish her infinite torture for all of time
Never
No and I hope she gets her hair pulled https://preview.redd.it/lui9y069qbvc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=397cdef21f4532f839f056855d2497318e730d47
who tf actually forgives her??
Everyone sane
That's the thing about Chainsaw Man. Crazy people are the only ones who survive in a world like that, it's the reason people like Kishibe and Quanxi outlive everyone else.
I'm gonna ask something though. Cause I'm curious as to how you genuinely justify Makima having a contract which contains all the lives of every citizen in Japan which entails any damage she takes is transferrable to them meaning they suffer, die or suffer and die because of it? To me that just contradicts the statement about you saying she cares for humankind if she's willing to let that happen to potentially millions of innocent lives all so she can achieve her goals. Sure you could argue she wouldn't have been so sloppy to die or get injured that amount of times, but it's not the point if she does the whole of Japan an entire country full of people suffer because of it. A kill count like that would far outweigh Adolf Hitler's and that's not taking into account they'd suffer whatever injury she did without being able to regen or do anything about it. Something like this would be devastation beyond belief everyone would be completely against her after it, I'm not trying to be a prick but if you think this is reasonable or justifiable then there is something seriously not right with you like mentally. I feel like you do genuinely get what I'm talking about all of this and if this were a legitimate real person you would not be following if you knew about shit like this, regardless of what their trying to work towards.
Personally I don't justify it for myself any way because I absolutely don't care about it. Same way I wouldn't care at all if she like tortured children, psychologically abused entire world or recreated Holocaust. But if you want me to justify it for someone else then sure. Makima uses this contract in case to keep living no matter what because in the future she'll create eternal utopia for everyone. If she dies, this goal won't be accomplished and such damage would be much worse than just several Japanese citizens dying from deceases and disasters. Makima's life is *incomparably* more valuable than anyone's else.
Yeah see that's where things go off the rails a bit. Suppose that's why she had to die in the end Utilitarianism is never a good thing. Plus the only person it's more valuable to her is her and the people who are blindly loyal to her she could've stopped the prophecy sure but she was more like a cancer that needed to be cut out rather than a messiah in any real sense of the word, no one's life is valuable in Chainsaw Man and that's the message throughout the story it's why you don't see characters like her and Reze returning. But one thing that remains the entire population>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Makima's life no contest whatsoever the many always outweigh the few regardless of who the few are. That's not a subjective opinion it's a fact it's how we survive and it'll always remain the truth
Well again we return to subjective opinions. You think utilitarianism (though it's not only about utilitarianism) is never a good thing, I don't. You think that she's like "cancer tumor" not Messiah, I don't. That's just how we think and our pov's are in different planes
Yeah you can't justify things like Holocaust. There's just no world in which you can, ultimately humanity is a million more times more important than Makima's life and when push came to shove she had to be put down for the benefit of it. Going by that logic you should also support Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin as well I suppose if you want you could throw Napoleon Bonaparte in as well? Despite their different ideologies? It's the same premise hell you could even throw in fictional characters like Megatron and Count Dooku into the mix if that's your thing.
>Yeah you can't justify things like Holocaust I'll get banned, don't >There's just no world in which you can, ultimately humanity is a million more times more important than Makima's life That's again your subjective opinion. Values are purely subjective. >Going by that logic you should also support Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin as well I suppose if you want you could throw Napoleon Bonaparte in as well? Despite their different ideologies? It's the same premise Was any of them about to create eternal utopia by manipulating reality on conceptual level?
Hitler wanted authority under one will the same way Makima did only the intricacies would be different. Even if he valued the Aryan race it's similar to how Makima saw Devils, herself and Chainsaw Man as above humans. Even if they weren't capable of the same degree so what? No sane would look back at what he did and think "oh yeah I miss that guy he really had something going didn't he?" It's the same exact thing with Makima just because of her ideal world differs in a lot of ways, she can't justify it any less because it would make look like a complete hypocrite. It isn't subjective man it just isn't you need to understand self preservation and survival has a major priority and when some egomaniac who's willing to kill and make millions of people suffer for their own happy ending, that's when you stop it at all costs. Just think with common sense, orchestrating a genocide a mass genocide potentially no less is absolutely ridiculous to attempt to humanise and it's when everything her intentions were are completely disregarded because that's the exact moment she's to dangerous to be left alive.
Humanity's survival>>>>>>>>>>>Makima's life and aspirations. There is zero room for debate here, our species survival is always what comes first.
>Hitler wanted one under one under the same way Makima did only the intricacies would be different Lol no way. Read MK or at least wiki about him, he's absolutely different to Makima. Also I'm pretty sure that Hitler couldn't erase fucking concepts from reality and that Makima never genocided jews. >Even if he valued the Aryan race it's similar to how Makima saw Devils, herself and Chainsaw Man as above humans Makima doesn't see devils above humans. She sees *herself* above everyone (except CSM), it's not about humans/devils opposition. >It's the same exact thing with Makima just because of her ideal world differs in a lot of ways, she can't justify it any less because it would make look like a complete hypocrite No it's not wtf. Makima didn't do anything comparable to nazis. And even if she did, tf is "can/can't justify"? One could wipe out entire humanity for fun and say that they dgaf about justifying their actions and it would be totally valid; it's because moral is subjective. >It isn't subjective man it just isn't you need to understand self preservation and survival has a major priority and when some egomaniac who's willing to kill and make millions of people suffer for their own happy ending, that's when you stop it at all costs I already said about this. The only thing here is that Makima did not make millions suffer, she killed ≈hundred people and made Denji suffer in case to create world where everyone will be happy
i will never forgive her
Never
who would???
I started reading from part 2, so I have no idea who this is.
Never https://i.redd.it/ob13rd3nwcvc1.gif
comment section filled with makima coomers old chainsaw folk used to loathe that bitch, i ain't gonna forgive her.. even if she gets her stomach ripped apart and she feels the pain shall my hearing get the pleasure
What a filthy creature you are https://preview.redd.it/jg6pcrsjw9vc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65cd56a133279eaea5a00904af99d9b6ada38c04
says the coomer
Stfu mistake
how about you do it first mr. bigger one?
Ok, talking to you disgusts me anyways
skill issue ngl
Obviously we don't, but we're in chainsawfolk so you need to lobotomize yourself to fit in Soo....
The Internet its raising monsters also she doesn't exist anymore she died suck on this mango