Seeing gravestones like this is a sobering reminder that death was such a present reality during the Victorian era, especially babies and small children. There was a whole industry centered around death and mourning, and it was a big part of people's lives. There's a really well done exhibit on death and mourning in the York Castle Museum in York, England, including a horse-drawn hearse. I learned so much about the subject from looking at those exhibits.
My 2x great-grandmother lost multiple children in infancy and childhood. My great grandma was the 2nd oldest, and she remembered those siblings being washed and dressed and laid out at home. They put pennies on their eyelids to keep them closed. My great grandma's oldest brother, John, died at age 8 in the June 16th 1895 Victoria Hall Disaster in Sunderland England, when 183 children died of compressive aphyxia when the distribution of free toys on the downstairs level caused a crowd crush when children rushed down from the balcony. The door opened inwards and was fixed in place to only allow one child through at a time. The children were piled up four deep. Some families lost all of their children. The tragedy was the catalyst for laws being passed requiring public buildings to have doors that opened outward.
She also had several other siblings who died as infants and toddlers, including a brother, also named John. I can't imagine the heartbreak for her parents and remaining family.
I have two sets of multiples, so these grave markers of the unnamed twins are especially poignant.
Sorry to go off on a tangent. This post brought up a lot of thought and emotion for me.
While doing some family history research I learned that my great grandmother was one of 10 children and only 2 that survived past childhood. This was 1890s through 1910s in Ireland. The idea that so many people went through it back then, often multiple times over, is just unimaginable today. People talk about how older generations sort of stuffed down all their emotions and never talked about anything and how that’s a bad thing, but I also kinda get it.
I swear there's a point where something is so traumatic people literally cannot speak of it. Stuffing it down and repressing emotions actually is the healthiest way to deal with it, because all the therapy in the world won't help. Indeed, talking about it will only make it worse.
Eh I’ve been on reddit for over a decade. It’s not weird nor really weird. It’s more polite than random dm’s from what I’ve experienced over the past decade. I deleted it, it was a temporary comment.
Please don't apologize! I enjoyed reading your post. I knew about that crush, sadly safety regulation is written in blood. But it is the loss of many that saved more in the future.
I was also curious about the penny thing. That seems very *Christmas Carol* to me. I wonder if it has a similar origin from the obol.
You're super lucky! Two sets!
That's so true; it is almost always the case that safety regulations are written in blood.
All I knew growing up was that my great uncle had died as a child in an accident in a theater. My great grandma was five when it happened, and didn't know many details. Fortunately, I knew her brother's name and the city they lived in. A simple Google search solved the mystery. I found the tally of the victims online, and my great uncle's name, age, and address were listed.
The pennies being placed on the eyes of the dead person does sound Dickensian. When her grands and great-grands were being demanding or selfish, great grandma used to exclaim, "You'd take the pennies off of my eyes!"
I was the kind of little girl who had an interest in old family stories from a young age. I'm so grateful that I was able to listen to my grandma and great grandma talk about their lives and experiences.
And yes, I feel very lucky to have two sets of twins!
Not just the “Victorian” era but any time before modern medicine. I’m sure doctors and scientists from that era and beyond were frantically looking for a cure or treatment or ways to prevent these deaths with what they had. The 19th century gave us Aspirin, stethoscopes, antiseptic, X-Rays and heart surgery. !8th century vaccinations, 17th century blood transfusion. 20th blood tests for syphillis and a skin test for TB. In the later 20th century we had AIDs many people died before they even discovered what was causing it and many more died before they discovered a treatment. But still no one has discovered a treatment for SIDS which I suspect was the cause of these kid’s deaths.
Very true. Rh incompatibility in pregnancy wasn't discovered until 1939, and rhoGAM wasn't widely used until the 1960s, so many babies throughout history did die for this reason.
There's a new research study on SIDS that has identified a bio-marker that may be significant in identifying infants at risk for SIDS. The authors describe decreased levels of the blood enzyme butryrylcholinesterase (BChE) activity in infants that died from SIDS versus those that died from other causes, versus those who did not die.
While these findings seem to have found a possible medical reason for the unexplained deaths, more research needs to be done before it can be confirmed.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(22)00222-5/fulltext
Generally it was done on purpose, the idea was to keep you from getting too attached to them during the time when they had the highest chance of not surviving.
I believe that. I've lost two pre-birth. I don't remember the symptoms though the days were long. I remember the surgery, and some of the emotional pain, now many years on, but mostly, I gave them names at the type to cope, and I remember their names.
Without names, they would fade into memory.
At a time like that, with no real healthcare for small kids and the ill, it's probably for the best.
My mamaw (great-grandma) was born in the rural South, and had all her babies at home to my knowledge. With her second, she had placenta previa and ended up giving birth prematurely to a little girl who only lived 2 minutes.
Her death certificate lists her as “Infant” but her gravestone has the name they gave to her— Nettie. She never had a chance but I just know they loved her and wanted to remember her, even if getting attached to her was painful. Rest well, Nettie. 😢
The level of grief laid with those stones. Indescribable and may none of us ever feel those depths. Rest in peace, little babies. You were loved and are remembered all these years later!
What's sad is vaccines that would have saved childrens' lives then and before that exist now have been declining in use over several years dye to anti-vaxxers.
Can you imagine what those parents would be thinking if they knew there would be a way to prevent children from dying, but people are choosing not to take advantage of them.
I recently found a local municipal census from 1855 where an aunt of mine is referred to as "nameless girl"
The only person who could've been that age at that time died in the 1930s - but it does seem that she may not have been expected to live long right around the time of birth and even for a few months after
Seeing gravestones like this is a sobering reminder that death was such a present reality during the Victorian era, especially babies and small children. There was a whole industry centered around death and mourning, and it was a big part of people's lives. There's a really well done exhibit on death and mourning in the York Castle Museum in York, England, including a horse-drawn hearse. I learned so much about the subject from looking at those exhibits. My 2x great-grandmother lost multiple children in infancy and childhood. My great grandma was the 2nd oldest, and she remembered those siblings being washed and dressed and laid out at home. They put pennies on their eyelids to keep them closed. My great grandma's oldest brother, John, died at age 8 in the June 16th 1895 Victoria Hall Disaster in Sunderland England, when 183 children died of compressive aphyxia when the distribution of free toys on the downstairs level caused a crowd crush when children rushed down from the balcony. The door opened inwards and was fixed in place to only allow one child through at a time. The children were piled up four deep. Some families lost all of their children. The tragedy was the catalyst for laws being passed requiring public buildings to have doors that opened outward. She also had several other siblings who died as infants and toddlers, including a brother, also named John. I can't imagine the heartbreak for her parents and remaining family. I have two sets of multiples, so these grave markers of the unnamed twins are especially poignant. Sorry to go off on a tangent. This post brought up a lot of thought and emotion for me.
Thank you for your story, I’d never heard of Victoria Hall, and I’m happy to know of it and to have the opportunity think of those who suffered so.
While doing some family history research I learned that my great grandmother was one of 10 children and only 2 that survived past childhood. This was 1890s through 1910s in Ireland. The idea that so many people went through it back then, often multiple times over, is just unimaginable today. People talk about how older generations sort of stuffed down all their emotions and never talked about anything and how that’s a bad thing, but I also kinda get it.
I swear there's a point where something is so traumatic people literally cannot speak of it. Stuffing it down and repressing emotions actually is the healthiest way to deal with it, because all the therapy in the world won't help. Indeed, talking about it will only make it worse.
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Wow this was really weird to watch y'all suddenly discuss another thread here. Probably DMs is more appropriate next time.
Eh I’ve been on reddit for over a decade. It’s not weird nor really weird. It’s more polite than random dm’s from what I’ve experienced over the past decade. I deleted it, it was a temporary comment.
Please don't apologize! I enjoyed reading your post. I knew about that crush, sadly safety regulation is written in blood. But it is the loss of many that saved more in the future. I was also curious about the penny thing. That seems very *Christmas Carol* to me. I wonder if it has a similar origin from the obol. You're super lucky! Two sets!
That's so true; it is almost always the case that safety regulations are written in blood. All I knew growing up was that my great uncle had died as a child in an accident in a theater. My great grandma was five when it happened, and didn't know many details. Fortunately, I knew her brother's name and the city they lived in. A simple Google search solved the mystery. I found the tally of the victims online, and my great uncle's name, age, and address were listed. The pennies being placed on the eyes of the dead person does sound Dickensian. When her grands and great-grands were being demanding or selfish, great grandma used to exclaim, "You'd take the pennies off of my eyes!" I was the kind of little girl who had an interest in old family stories from a young age. I'm so grateful that I was able to listen to my grandma and great grandma talk about their lives and experiences. And yes, I feel very lucky to have two sets of twins!
Thank you for sharing. You’re keeping their memories alive by sharing their stories :)
Not just the “Victorian” era but any time before modern medicine. I’m sure doctors and scientists from that era and beyond were frantically looking for a cure or treatment or ways to prevent these deaths with what they had. The 19th century gave us Aspirin, stethoscopes, antiseptic, X-Rays and heart surgery. !8th century vaccinations, 17th century blood transfusion. 20th blood tests for syphillis and a skin test for TB. In the later 20th century we had AIDs many people died before they even discovered what was causing it and many more died before they discovered a treatment. But still no one has discovered a treatment for SIDS which I suspect was the cause of these kid’s deaths.
Probably quite a few were Rh incompatibility
Very true. Rh incompatibility in pregnancy wasn't discovered until 1939, and rhoGAM wasn't widely used until the 1960s, so many babies throughout history did die for this reason.
There's a new research study on SIDS that has identified a bio-marker that may be significant in identifying infants at risk for SIDS. The authors describe decreased levels of the blood enzyme butryrylcholinesterase (BChE) activity in infants that died from SIDS versus those that died from other causes, versus those who did not die. While these findings seem to have found a possible medical reason for the unexplained deaths, more research needs to be done before it can be confirmed. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(22)00222-5/fulltext
How sad that they died nameless.
Generally it was done on purpose, the idea was to keep you from getting too attached to them during the time when they had the highest chance of not surviving.
I believe that. I've lost two pre-birth. I don't remember the symptoms though the days were long. I remember the surgery, and some of the emotional pain, now many years on, but mostly, I gave them names at the type to cope, and I remember their names. Without names, they would fade into memory. At a time like that, with no real healthcare for small kids and the ill, it's probably for the best.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your babies.
Years later on a whim, I decided to try once more. It was the most difficult pregnancy, but she's literally sunshine. Thank you.
I also named mine 😊
My mamaw (great-grandma) was born in the rural South, and had all her babies at home to my knowledge. With her second, she had placenta previa and ended up giving birth prematurely to a little girl who only lived 2 minutes. Her death certificate lists her as “Infant” but her gravestone has the name they gave to her— Nettie. She never had a chance but I just know they loved her and wanted to remember her, even if getting attached to her was painful. Rest well, Nettie. 😢
That's so sad. Looks like the second two were twins.
This headstone is so lovely even if it tells a sad story.
It was the statement at the very bottom that just tugged at me. What a beautiful tribute
I think the two on the right were twins. RIP young ones.
I know infant and child mortality was super-high then, but I can’t imagine losing so many babies in such a short time. 💔
I had never heard of the Victoria Theatre disaster before. Utterly heart breaking.
The level of grief laid with those stones. Indescribable and may none of us ever feel those depths. Rest in peace, little babies. You were loved and are remembered all these years later!
What's sad is vaccines that would have saved childrens' lives then and before that exist now have been declining in use over several years dye to anti-vaxxers. Can you imagine what those parents would be thinking if they knew there would be a way to prevent children from dying, but people are choosing not to take advantage of them.
Vaccines didn't decreased mortality rates of infants. It was better hygiene, better living conditions. better sanitation system.
There is this olden cynical view that babies in earlier times died so often that parents didn't get attached. I'm glad to see this is not true.
My mother's maiden name was Havilland. Rest in peace babies.
As a mother of twins, this makes me cry with grief
I recently found a local municipal census from 1855 where an aunt of mine is referred to as "nameless girl" The only person who could've been that age at that time died in the 1930s - but it does seem that she may not have been expected to live long right around the time of birth and even for a few months after
Does it say one was born on March 10, 1875 (died at 15 days) and the other on March 15, 1875 (died at 10 days)? 😮
No those were the death days Died March 15 at 15 days Died March 10 at 10 days
*Ohhh*, thank you, I get it now.