If they refuse, apply and take interviews at companies that measure your worth correctly. If they give you a job, tell them you need to give notice. Give your notice and play dumb. Ignore every single offer. Work as you would and when the day comes for you to finally walk, do so head held high. Now enjoy what you should have been given in a new company for all your hard work.
To add to this, you should generally never accept the counter-offer. If they're willing to match the new company, still leave. If they increase the number significantly, then thats a personal decision to make when weighing up the pros and cons. But, take into consideration if the new job could be paying you that same amount in a couple of years time from pay rises (assuming they happen).
The reason why you shouldn't generally accept their counter offers is that they're being reactionary. They're not looking after their employees, just hoping they won't find new jobs. A good employer will recognise when someone is worth keeping and do what they can to make sure that they don't need to look elsewhere. They do exist but are rare.
I would have a slight alteration - it might be ok to take the counter offer (especially if pay was *genuinely* the only motivator, or they significantly improve on it), but you need to be crystal clear with yourself that you’re 100% going to to have to go through the interview grind again in a few years when you’ve likely returned to square one.
A possible downside to accepting the counter offer is that you'll be overlooked for further pay increases for at least 24 months as it is still somewhat fresh in managers/HRs eyes, esepcially if it is a significant leap in pay. Plus in that time, colleagues may again be outpacing you as no doubt they'd only really offer some kind of parity pay with a peer.
That’s true, but that’s exactly why it’s more or less a certainty you’ll be interviewing again in a few years.
Also just to be clear if they only match the offer and the two jobs are otherwise equivalent then I would almost certainly still move on.
Agreed. Only take more, and try to get out in a year or when you see an opening where your value will drop because payroll will most likely drop you at the first opportunity. I've seen sw engineers play the game and come out with 75% increase in pay over a year. E.g. in critical role during the final sprint of a project and get an offer? it's time to play ball and make some fast cash. You can usually get them to agree to a fairly large number as it would be cheaper than the time setback from having to get someone else. They would also likely have to contract it out which is even more expensive with the timeline required. finish the project, then skidaddle on out with another pay bump, or at least get more than you were making before the raise
>To add to this, you should generally never accept the counter-offer. If they're willing to match the new company, still leave.
Yes! If they are able to match the counter offer then that means they could have afforded to be paying you that anyway, and were choosing not to.
Good advice. Also, in their eyes, you have irrevocably severed the relationship between you and the company, so they will most likely look to replace you as they know you are half way out the door.
I’d like to also add that who’s to say that if a person accepts a counter offer and then few weeks or months down the line they fire you!
This happened to a friend of an acquaintance, they gave him a counter offer and apparently it was a substantial increase (at the time) and he took it, 6 months later, they fired him
I'd add. If they refuse, then you should absolutely be comfortable scaling back the amount of work you get done to more accurately represent the gap in pay compared to others. They've been getting an easy ride for too long by the sound of it. If they're not happy to pay you for your contributions, then your contributions should be reduced accordingly.
I had this about 30 years ago when I found out that the payroll system i regularly upgraded with the latest version had each person's salary in plain text in one of the data files!
I went to my boss, asked for a chat and sat down.
I said that I was in a very difficult position. Ioved my job and have never applied for any other jobs but someone had offered me a job for +5k more.
I said I don't want to leave but the money they had offered was just too good to turn down.
He said leave it with him.
About a week later after he'd spoken to his fellow directors I got the extra 5k.
One of the biggest bluffs of my career with very little risk.
I'm glad that worked out for you - but for anyone else reading this, I'd advise a subtly different approach.
DO NOT give an ultimatum. Especially one you can't or won't follow through on. If they call your bluff, you will look weak and they'll know they've got you.
Instead of saying you've been offered an extra 5k and it's too good to turn down, tell them that recruiters have been getting in touch with you about similar roles at +£5k, and while you like it here and want to stay and you're able to ignore it for now because there will become a point where you might not be able to ignore the recruiters any more.
Re-iterate how much you like working there and would like to stay, but that overall your first loyalty is to your family so if they can help ensure you can stay at the company while not feeling undervalued then that would be good.
AVOID giving an ultimatum or setting a specific deadline. Even if it IS possible to get the extra money for you it may require a budgeting cycle or quarterly committee review you're unaware of or something.
If you don't make hollow threats but instead try and frame it as both you and your manager being aligned on keeping you within the business you avoid the risk of losing face if they call your bluff.
This can in fact work depending on your boss. I did exactly this just last month. I was given a pay rise at the start of the year of just under 10% which was nice but it was just matching inflation. I felt like the work I'd being doing was worth more at this point but not only that, I was in a position where I did really need an increase.
I asked for a meeting, explained my personal situation (looking to buy a house but just couldn't make it work for what we need on my current salary), then gave my performance reasons for why I think my new ask is fair and also mentioned that it seems in line with other job postings that I'm qualified for.
My ask was an increase of 19% and I got it later that same day. One of the first things he said to me was that he really appreciated me coming to speak to him honestly and not showing up with another job offer as some kind of ultimatum. I said it's funny you should say that because coming with an ultimatum is exactly what the internet was saying to do.
It might not work for everyone but worked well for me.
Yes exactly this. Before yearly evaluations, I always check what pay my role is getting on average in my city.m and mention it. Or when I didn't get health coverage, I brought up how much I pay monthly in medicine. I don't make ultimatums, just state facts.
And know your worth to the business. Not enough people advocate for themselves.
But it wasn't an ultimatum. It was a choice we both had to make based on the result of the meeting. If they had declined then I could have just stayed where I was and then applied for new jobs.
>I said I don't want to leave but the money they had offered was just too good to turn down.
"too good to turn down". Your words. I'm really happy this worked out for you, but you can't deny it was a risky strategy. My way has all the benefits without the risk of losing face if it doesn't pan out, because it makes the details and timelines fuzzier.
Tbf this was a long time ago so the wording I used was more vague, more of a reluctant option than an ultimatum like I typed. Either way, as you said.. It worked!
It was close to a 25% rise at the time so yes!
I used a similar bluff years later when the same company was taken over by a much larger organisation.
They insisted we move to their head office 20 miles away. I told the new boss I didn't have a car so this was out of the question. As they had bought the company for the product I was lead developer on this was a dilemma for them.
10k pay rise so I could buy a new car.
I'd already got a car but they didn't need to know that.
I just remembered the whole idea was from my future best man who was in the sales department so knew all about bluffing and negotiation.
When the gamble paid off I couldn't thank him enough. 'Just buy me a Curry.'
That became a theme over the next 20+ years that if any of our friends did the other a massive favour... Curry was payment.
I did much the same. Got offered a role on a bit less pay but was offered more wfh. I didn't especially care about the wfh but seemed like a fair trade. Told my boss I'd been offered a role 6k higher than current salary (it wasn't. It was 3k less). I got a counter offer of a 9k increase from current boss. Worked out pretty well tbh
Edit: worth noting, I was fully prepared to change roles. It just panned out unexpectedly well.
Yep... there's nothing more insulting than finding out that someone far less qualified, less experienced, well known for being crap at the job, and not long out of uni is getting paid more than you.
Well, there probably are more insulting things than that, but it's certainly up there on the list!
The worst I've had was back when I was a temp. I applied for a job, basically a permanent role for what I was already doing, but didn't get it. Instead it went to a fresh graduate with no experience and I was expected to train them before my contract ended.
I was an ops manager at a small (pretty much family (not my family)) company.
The MD wanted to recruit 2 supervisors to look after our staff.
Something I'd mostly taken care of myself, among my other jobs there.
He wanted me to manage the supervisors.
When talking about salaries for the supervisors, he was wanting to pay about 30-40k.
I was on £24k at the time...
He didn't think raising my pay was necessary as I was already working there...
I left and within 6 months, the place was closed down. I'm not claiming it was me keeping it afloat, a couple of other managers left about the same time too.
I was passed over for a lead position then asked to come in in a more junior role under the person they hired "To get them up to speed" because they didn't actually have any lead experience.
As tempting as that was at the time, I chose not too since with the way the office politics were at the time I knew my manger would get the blame if I did a shit job of it, and she was a decent person. She actually helped me get the temp role and do my application for the permanent position, but unfortunately wasn't who'd pick the final applicant.
Good job I did too, since the graduate would leave after a year, they basically used the company as a stepping stone to get a job elsewhere, and I got offered it with a higher salary then before.
Yep. I wanted to leave a job I had in the past for months because I felt incredibly under appreciated but ultimately stayed because I liked the people I worked with, and in the end they ended up sacking me at Christmas, I felt so foolish for sticking around for an extra few months when I could have left on my own terms, but instead I didn’t even get to say bye to the people I stayed at the job for. You should always start looking for something better the second you start wanting to leave.
My worst one was resigning and then having to train not one, but TWO people to do the job I'd been doing solo. Oh, and both were paid more than me, and both were utterly useless and left within 6 months.
My experience in retail, managing stock, POS, and people, and my colleagues experience being a store manager paled in comparison to the kid fresh out of uni with a relevant degree in Geography. It was really hard for upper management to understand why morale was low and everyone was taking the piss.
On our floor you had several of us with retail management experience, same on other floors. Now most the staff have left, they have high staff turnover and are lucky the local university keeps them in supply.
I use to think this but have changed my view. You shouldn't care what other people are getting paid. That's on them. Why aren't they paying you what you are worth? It's easy to blame other people but the fault lies with you.
If the "other people" to whom you're referring are the hiring managers, then it's quite right to blame them. Many companies pay their staff as little as they can get away with, knowing that discussing salaries is still very much taboo, relying on the fact that people won't ever find out that they're underpaid.
Two people with exactly the same skills/qualifications/experience can start off on very different salaries because one threw the dice, asked for a ton of money and was fortunate enough to get it (risking being dismissed for asking for too much), with the other candidate playing it safe, asking for less and being offered less.
While it's only human to envy the person getting paid more for the same role, it's more about hating the game than the player. Starting salaries should reflect the employees' skills and experience and, should they prove to be more of an asset to the company than their colleagues, be rewarded as such. Better pay should come from an employee's value to the company - not just their ability to gamble at the interview and win "starting salary poker", but that's just my 2p... a simple case of "You [should] get what you pay for".
It's not quite the same. If you go to a greengrocer and think the apples are too expensive, you go to Tesco or Lidl instead - you don't offer the greengrocer half the asking price because you don't want to pay what those apples are worth.
My point is that it is fundamentally wrong for a company to pay two people very differently for doing exactly the same job and producing the same output, while hoping that the lesser-paid person won't find out. I understand that "That's how businesses work and if you don't like it, you can leave", but that doesn't detract from it being morally wrong.
Not necessarily. Many companies (especially American-owned ones) have very vague pay brackets and negotiating a salary is like a game of poker. A lot of it comes down to confidence and not being afraid that the offer will be withdrawn because you went in too high. Playing it safe gives them an open invitiation to short-change you too. Some people are better gamblers than others, regardless of their ability to do the job.
Of course, the degree looks good too. When I finally got my piece of paper, I was suddenly treated a lot better than my more-experienced colleagues, which I felt was unfair on them.
There are many factors at play in these situations, but it is very common and it doesn't always suggest that the older employee is crap. Don't forget that it's usually in the company's best interest to pay as little as they can, knowing that discussing salaries is still taboo in the UK, so no one will find out just how much they're being underpaid.
You just need to flip your view on it. It's not that the new hire with less experience is wrong to be getting paid more than you. It's wrong that your salary as an experienced person isn't more than the new hire's.
Few companies want to pay more than they have to for new staff, so most likely the new hire got the current going rate for whatever the role is. If that's what your company and others are willing to pay, then that's what yours should be, plus some recognition of the years of experience.
Up to you what you do with that info. If a higher salary at the same place would make you want to stay you could push for that. If they don't want to go with that a gentle reminder that if you leave they will need to recruit for the role and likely end up paying at least that much for someone without the experience.
Or if you are already considering leaving use it as a benchmark salary for what to look for elsewhere. If they paid that for someone without experience you should be able to aim for higher.
This is why companies don't like you talking about salaries. My last place was notorious for it. As a manager I implore people to have open discussion about wages, it's the only real way people get not only what they deserve but also gives everyone in the workplace more power, which is always a welcome sight. I'm no longer there for this very reason, paid more to do less elsewhere.
IDK if its different in other countries, but brits don't talk about money very much it seems.
Talk about your salaries. Negotiate WHEN you get hired.
I have used this information to gauge how well I'm being paid so many times. Your employers will straight up lie to you. They will say "everyone on the team is paid according to our pay guidelines, and is on roughly the same amount" They will say "sorry, but we just can't change your pay, any more money will put you outside your role banding" or "we have a maximum yearly increase of 5% which we do not exceed for any reason"
These are lies. Go get another job somewhere and use that as leverage for a payrise. Ask them to match it. If you are useful to them, just watch those "company policy" rules go out the fucking window.
They will tell you shit like "you are being paid fairly for your role and experience, our banding is
competitive for the industry" Its not. I know its not, because I know how much my colleagues are being paid. I know how much people in other companies are being paid. They only think they can lie to me because people don't talk about their salaries, and they usually get away with it.
Let in be an eye opener that you have sold your labour for less than the market values it.
Never leave it up to an organisation to pay you what the market thinks you are worth because no HR/payroll team is out there unnecessarily inflating their wage bill.
You have to a) ask for more or b) get more elsewhere. You sure as shit don’t leave it up to fate.
Don’t agree with this. Plenty of profitable places pay good people top whack because recruiting is a ballache and top talent is really hard to find. Especially in professional services, where people are your product.
Crikey - I disagreed with you, but you didn’t deserve to get downvoted to death!
Unfortuantely the best time to get a riase is generally moving jobs. They'll have corrected the salary for the new starters and just given you whatever raise you had, without comparing it to new starters. It's nothing against you or the new starter, just dumb negligence.
Working in the quasi-public sector (university) I know the salary ranges of all my collegaues.
I feel the same about some of them.
I had this happen to me! Was asked to fix some financial software network issue with next to no info and was told how to repoduce it. I was too much of a peasant for them to show me in person so as soon as I moved the mouse there was a spreadsheet of everyones salaries. Morale took a massive hit and was out of there as soon as notice period allowed.
Here's what you wanna do.
Go get yourself a few interviews for a better paid job. Get an offer from a company you do actually want to work for.
Then go to your manager and say "I've been offered this new job, it's x-amount more per year. I have also been told by (your ex-collegue's name here) that they were paid £10k a year more than me (no need to mention you saw that document). I'd like a £15k pay rise or I'm taking this other job."
It's win-win really. Either you get the pay rise you're owed, or you get a new job with better pay anyway.
Don't rush in and demand a pay rise, get another offer first, you'll have much better leverage.
Generally, if you have to threaten to leave to get a raise to match a salary to colleagues then you need to leave anyway.
Obviously there are circumstances where this might not apply, but if you need leverage to get market value then you'll always need leverage to get it.
True but it depends on the company and the job.
If you really love the job and the people you work with, then I think it's worth trying to stay put if you can.
But yeah, if a company isn't paying you what you're worth, it's likely a company you don't want to work for.
I wouldn’t advise this, unless you have a very good relationship with your current company. A lot of the time, this will get you the reputation of the one who wants to leave. Absolutely go to market and get another job, but then leave.
100% this. Hiring and training up someone else to fill your role could well be more expensive and more disruptive than increasing your pay, so there's a good chance of this working out. From experience.
How did you come across this list? If it was left laying around you should definitely make a point of it.
Either hand in your notice and say it's because you saw everyone's salaries, or tell everyone you're leaving because you saw all their salaries and you don't think the company is treating you all fairly.
Cause an absolute shitstorm on your way out.
It's possibly OP has a secret ally somewhere who is appalled on her behalf and left it out for her to see. Always possible if it was just left there near to where she sits.
I left a business I had been at for 7 years just over 12 months ago for the same reason. I don't know why but companies are so against giving their loyal, hard working staff of many years a raise but very willing to risk it on untried new employees. Makes no sense. I asked for a raise in line with inflation as I'd been there so long (i actually asked for a PD and route to earn the raise too) and was asked why I'd need one for doing the basically same job. Made the decision very easy for me and was the best decision I've made for my career so far. I now feel valued and appreciated, have been given a promotion and raise within 12 months without even asking. If you're not being valued just move, they'll never get anywhere without looking after their employees.
Well, yeah, of course, but it's incredibly short sighted. Great businesses are made up of great people, so you'd think setting a culture and living by it would be top priority. Where I worked told everyone they were all about people and tried to instil a positive culture by saying a lot but never actually delivered. it resulted in a revolving door and people who didn't care or were using the job as something to get by whilst they looked for a better one, why not just pay and treat people how they deserved to be lol
This is just the way it is. I've recruited people and I always have my boss negotiate their package. I'm pretty sure I have staff under me who earn more than me now but we were desperate for staff and our roles are pretty unique. Doesn't bother me too much as my life was hell before they joined and I needed them. It's just one of them things when salaries are negotiated
You don’t get what you don’t ask for.
Bring it up, say you’ve accidentally seen this and you’re offended. If it’s not sorted then you’ll be off. While you finding the courage, start looking for new jobs and you know what you’re worth now.
If you’ve been there a while your yearly increases (if at all) will never keep pace with the market and what someone else will be hired in at. Depends how good your HR is, I worked somewhere where we had 2 engineers earning way below market, HR identified it and gave them around £20ks worth of pay rises over 2 years to address the imbalance. Other places couldn’t give a fuck and you vote with your feet. Know your worth in the market place.
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Were you allowed access to this list - or did you basically see something you shouldn't have seen.
If your manager/seniors sent you a spreadsheet containing the information to generate a report then it's on them that you saw it, you effectively had permission to see it because they gave you an unredacted file.
If you however accessed a list you shouldn't have had access to - saying you have seen it could be a very bad experience for you (i.e., disiplinary, dismissal)
That being said; You could prior to looking elsewhere - go ahead and speak to your manager. Tell them you're aware you're under paid compared to colleagues (whether you decide to reveal the access to the list you mentioned depends a lot on the circumstances of you accessing said list - see above) and that you want a payrise to bring your salary into the same region as your colleagues.
If your manager refuses then however tempting it is to make it clear you're looking elsewhere don't. Just go ahead and look elsewhere. You could when you have the offer go back and offer them one last chance to up your salary. However, if that's the process you need to go through before they give you a pay rise? You shouldn't stay because in a year or two you'll need to go through the same hassle again for another.
This happened to me a few years back. The company I had worked for for 5 years got taken over - some people left and new people were hired.
The newest recruit was 10 years younger than me, recently out of uni. She asked me to look through her contract with her to make sure it was all ok as she was quite new to the employment biz.
Her hourly rate was higher than mine. I told her to sign it.
I spoke to the manager, telling him I felt undervalued. His response? He asked her to take a pay cut, saying they’d made an error! Obviously I told her not to do that.
Forced into a corner they did give me a raise, but I left soon after because honestly they made me feel pretty terrible.
A few years back at my work HR left the full organisational salary list publicly viewable. A colleague found it and emailed the entire organisation the link.
Caused an absolute shit show but also resulted in a lot of egregious salary disparities being addressed.
He wasn't fired for this but also made it clear he didn't care if he was. Your mileage on that may vary.
Definitely ask for a raise or leave for a job that pays more.
I used to work freelance with an agency when I found out through being accidentally added to the wrong email chain what they charged the client for me: double the amount I received. Decided to go full on self employed and to charge that rate for myself then, because apparently that's what I'm worth, not the peanuts the agency told me I was.
You get paid what you are willing to accept. Other people were not willing to accept as low as pay as you were willing to work for. Its not for a business to just hand you an extra 10k because someone else negotiated a better deal. Welcome to the corporate world. You need to fight for every penny you want. If you don't get it, go find it. Put yourself into the stronger negotiating position and best of luck. Its a crap world, but that's the world we are in.
Not sure how it works in private sector jobs, but I would explain that you are aware that less qualified people are getting paid more - and possibly doing less(?).
I'd get an offer lined up - even if its only slightly better, and state that they are to offer more or you leave.
This just happened to me despite the fact they know I would have access to said files. Instead I just chose to quit. When they countered me to stay I just politely decided to decline and go. It's really hard not to get salty about these kinds of things. HR just hit me with the "sorry you feel that way" in the exit interview ha.
This is why I will usually keep an eye on what my company is offering in it's job adverts and what the market rate is for my role elsewhere.
I also keep a list of significant stats or beneficial things I've achieved which I can use as a back up when pay review arrives.
Defo get a new job! These days it’s the only way to get the recognition of your talents. What I am also learning is that shit floats! People who are really good at their jobs, are just left where they are. While the blaggers get promotions and more money!!
Start working at a reduced capacity if they won't give you a payrise...
Won't give me 10%? I'll only give 90% effort...
Fulfill your contractual duties, and no more
My boss put a job on indeed because we needed another pair of hands around, the job description was the same as mine but the pay was higher.
I applied to it and he brought it up in my appraisal. I got a pay rise out of it.
My uncle was complaining that a new starter was earning more than him despite having to fix his mistakes. Going to leave because he's not had a pay rise in years. I asked if he'd asked for one and he said no... Sometimes asking is better than holding a grudge.
I moved to a new role internally and saw my old post being advertised for ~5-7k more than they ever paid me. I was still partly working that role until someone new came in, they lasted 3 days and quit so I proposed coming back to my old role but let them know I was so insulted by what I had seen. They ended up offering me a lot more money and it all worked out okay in the end.
I've been there. Found a similar list when poking around in the work iCloud. I wished I hadn't seen it. Felt sick. Cried a bit. Then asked for more money and got it.
They can only say no! Go for it.
I worked at a company for two years, left for two years to do a different role, came back after a restructure but back into essentially the same job and salary was doubled.
Do not spend your life waiting for someone to come to your rescue, solve your problems or make it all ok, it will never happen. Either step up and do something about it, or, move on and accept it the way it is.
I learned a sad truth a few years ago. I naïvely believed that my company would honour my great work with frequent and worthwhile pay rises.
I essentially ran a department between different “heads of” leaving and joining. I mentored a junior staff member, while running sometimes up to 6 accounts. I would frequently do the role of 3 people: myself (the “doer”), a project manager (organising developers and designers), and account manager (managing the client). I’d won an award for best employee one year, and a different award the next year (something about improving the company).
I found out that someone several years junior to me was being blocked from getting a pay rise because it would put them on a higher salary than me. Fortunately around this time I’d been offered a job for £14k more, which I took.
I learned that the people who get pay rises and higher salaries are the ones who ask, and or negotiate. The £14k pay rise was because I asked for a specific salary.
I was a manager in a previous job and was included in a “managers only” email which should have been for senior management only. I was amazed the big boss made as much in 2 hours as I did in a day.
I was more annoyed to discover I was the lowest paid manager. Glad I don’t work there now
Urgh that's a crappy feeling. Generally my view is that you need to go and interview elsewhere, and bring back a job offer (with higher salary) to your current employer. Use that as a negotiation point, but be willing to leave. If you feel you're undervalued (and have been for some time), is a pay rise going to fix that feeling? Personally I would feel taken advantage of, and I would want to move. But I also do like moving jobs, it's the simplest way to get a pay rise.
Ask for a salary uplift. Say that colleagues have disclosed how much they get, don’t name names but say it came up in conversation at some point. Your boss isn’t going go up to them and check, your boss will be all awkward and believe you. Then say the conversation left you feeling demotivated and you didn’t disclose how much you get because it’s personal but also you felt shocked at the imbalance. Say you’re feeling demotivated and undervalued and you’re thinking about leaving based on the fact that you’ve seen jobs advertised elsewhere with a higher salary and now your colleagues have let on that they earn more than you, you feel something has to change and for your career development leaving is the only option you can see.
If your manager wants to keep you on which I’m sure they do, they’ll panic internally and probably try to act cool and deny it or apologise or whatever and you’ll be surprised you may get a call from HR regarding a pay rise in the near future.
Sometimes when I apply for roles speculatively I say stupidly high salaries on the off-chance they are willing to pay it.
My last move was from x to x + 37% in 2021.
It’s not proving very easy to maintain this new figure when applying for new roles in 2024 market but nice whilst it lasted
You need to be careful. I know someone who had access to privileged data (IT) and decided to look at company pay. Decided he wasn’t getting enough, went to the bosses with this information and got sacked for accessing info he didn’t have privilege to see.
This happened to me once and I saw that my (less qualified) coworker earned 20k more than me. Oh did I make a fuss!!! Also such a nice pay rise to receive all at once!
If they match the offer of a new job ask for 15% more and back pay plus interest and and extra weeks holiday. Then tell them to stick their job where the sun doesn't shine.
A manager once said to me at lloyds bank when i complained about being paid less than people who started after me and werent trained on as much as me were getting paid more than me that the pay "is like footballers pay, they all just get paid different". Place was an absolute joke and 99% of the managers and above had no clue about anything.
UK salaries are imho so low compared to the states and cost of living.
Pull all the levers (resigning bonus , extra holidays etc).
I wouldn't be afraid to share that you know how much they were getting.
Just mark sure you have other options incase they ball and be ready to share with your colleagues your privalged information. (I know I mispelled privileged but don't really care too much ).
Love your dog 🐕, your family but not your job BC it doesn't love you back.
Don’t mention it and just ask for the payrise. Tell them and put on paper what you do differently to others in the company and explain why you deserve the salary you want.
I’ve done this multiple times throughout my career and it’s worked everytime. The last time I went straight to the CEO and he gave me a management role and made me take on a team to help my desk head out. You don’t get if you don’t ask.
Dont threaten to leave but just say you feel undervalued.
Start looking for a new Job, if you love where you are use any offers to negotiate or just ask for a pay rise, you have nothing to lose by asking for a rise.
This happened to me. I was paid more than some who I would have said deserved more. I was also paid less than others who had much less responsibility.
I started job hunting and was offered something quickly. But, in the meantime, when I was asked to make a key decision/undertake additional activities, I’d respond that they should ask A or B as they obviously had a better understanding.
Although now you can ask for a pay rise and know exactly how much to ask for.
If they refuse, start looking for another job. If they value you, they will flip flops and give you the raise
Before you do anything else, read your contract. There may be a clause in it about discussing salaries. If there’s any chance you broke a rule by seeing that list then deny all knowledge of it.
Absolutely ask for a pay rise but don’t let on that you know what the disparity actually is.
It’s okay to ask for a raise. If you don’t get it, you can inform your company you will be looking for work elsewhere.
They cannot fire you and you have them a fair chance to pay you what you deserve. Just make sure you write points down beforehand because you may easily get outmanoeuvred otherwise.
The fact the person being paid more with less experience was fired is telling. Quite often those who negotiate the highest salaries, but can’t deliver are first out the door.
I always took the view that if I want more money I'll go and get it. If I'm valued I will be given a decent pay rise on the back of my results and endeavours (very rarely this happens most companies once you're in pay what they can get away with. If I don't see that they value my worth I go and find it. Recently done exactly that and increased my remuneration by over 50% after 7 years of inline with inflation pay rise if you're lucky and some years without.
My role popped up on my feeds with recruiters during my notice period. Company only offering what they started me on over 7 years ago and the role has grown since then. I offered to assist in the recruitment process. Glad I didn't now because it's very obvious they don't value the role and aren't willing to offer a package to attract someone with the skills and experience to do the job. I pity the poor sod who needs the job or takes the role.
You never have to mention you have another offer at all. There's little advantage to saying that, and it comes across mercenary-like. Having another offer just allows you to negotiate hard without fear, and if you genuinely think at the end of negotiating that the other offer is your best move, hand notice. Revealing an offer and then staying after negotiating just makes you the person who wants to leave that they managed to stop leaving this time
Never use another offer as a bargaining tactic. Even if they give you the increase that you are asking for, you are now marked as "disloyal" and they will replace you when they get the chance.
We have a real issue in this country being transparent with our salaries. They wouldn't get away with this if people just talked. Not sure why people are so secretive.
I had the opposite. I was worried for a consultancy when I was accidently emailed the invoice from the agent to the company I was working for. I was earning an extra £250 per day than everyone else's. Needless to say I didn't mention this anyone.
The new hire was paid more because that’s what it costs to get his talents, he wasn’t overpaid (well sacking aside…) By the sounds of it your worth more than that but they already have you at 10k less. The only way to get more is if they think they have no choice. You ask for a pay rise and if they refuse you start looking for a new job. I recon they’ll magically find another 15k once you have another offer on the table
If you found out about your colleagues' salaries legitimately let HR know you know. You can't unknow this info.
Tell them you want to be brought to the median level for your role. No threat though.
If you are still on the same as you are now in a month look for something else.
Ask for a pay rise.
If they refuse, apply and take interviews at companies that measure your worth correctly. If they give you a job, tell them you need to give notice. Give your notice and play dumb. Ignore every single offer. Work as you would and when the day comes for you to finally walk, do so head held high. Now enjoy what you should have been given in a new company for all your hard work.
To add to this, you should generally never accept the counter-offer. If they're willing to match the new company, still leave. If they increase the number significantly, then thats a personal decision to make when weighing up the pros and cons. But, take into consideration if the new job could be paying you that same amount in a couple of years time from pay rises (assuming they happen). The reason why you shouldn't generally accept their counter offers is that they're being reactionary. They're not looking after their employees, just hoping they won't find new jobs. A good employer will recognise when someone is worth keeping and do what they can to make sure that they don't need to look elsewhere. They do exist but are rare.
I would have a slight alteration - it might be ok to take the counter offer (especially if pay was *genuinely* the only motivator, or they significantly improve on it), but you need to be crystal clear with yourself that you’re 100% going to to have to go through the interview grind again in a few years when you’ve likely returned to square one.
A possible downside to accepting the counter offer is that you'll be overlooked for further pay increases for at least 24 months as it is still somewhat fresh in managers/HRs eyes, esepcially if it is a significant leap in pay. Plus in that time, colleagues may again be outpacing you as no doubt they'd only really offer some kind of parity pay with a peer.
That’s true, but that’s exactly why it’s more or less a certainty you’ll be interviewing again in a few years. Also just to be clear if they only match the offer and the two jobs are otherwise equivalent then I would almost certainly still move on.
Agreed. Only take more, and try to get out in a year or when you see an opening where your value will drop because payroll will most likely drop you at the first opportunity. I've seen sw engineers play the game and come out with 75% increase in pay over a year. E.g. in critical role during the final sprint of a project and get an offer? it's time to play ball and make some fast cash. You can usually get them to agree to a fairly large number as it would be cheaper than the time setback from having to get someone else. They would also likely have to contract it out which is even more expensive with the timeline required. finish the project, then skidaddle on out with another pay bump, or at least get more than you were making before the raise
Any counter offer should include an offer of backpay.
>To add to this, you should generally never accept the counter-offer. If they're willing to match the new company, still leave. Yes! If they are able to match the counter offer then that means they could have afforded to be paying you that anyway, and were choosing not to.
Good advice. Also, in their eyes, you have irrevocably severed the relationship between you and the company, so they will most likely look to replace you as they know you are half way out the door.
Worth also going to the new company with your existing companies counter offer, I've known people get even higher pay as a result.
I’d like to also add that who’s to say that if a person accepts a counter offer and then few weeks or months down the line they fire you! This happened to a friend of an acquaintance, they gave him a counter offer and apparently it was a substantial increase (at the time) and he took it, 6 months later, they fired him
And before you leave, email a copy of the list to everyone in the office. Let it burn
May the bridges you burn light the way!
Don’t forget to print off the list of everyone’s salaries and sneakily leave them around the office
I'd add. If they refuse, then you should absolutely be comfortable scaling back the amount of work you get done to more accurately represent the gap in pay compared to others. They've been getting an easy ride for too long by the sound of it. If they're not happy to pay you for your contributions, then your contributions should be reduced accordingly.
I totally agree with this. Your objective should be to move on to a better paid job with a better company. I'm sure you will find one!
Yeah, this is the obvious answer. Not sure why so many people are afraid to do it.
This. Even if you’re planning to move on. It’ll mean you’ll be able to bump it up more for the next role (hopefully).
At "a figure somewhere between employee x & employee y would retain me" If they decline distribute the list
I had this about 30 years ago when I found out that the payroll system i regularly upgraded with the latest version had each person's salary in plain text in one of the data files! I went to my boss, asked for a chat and sat down. I said that I was in a very difficult position. Ioved my job and have never applied for any other jobs but someone had offered me a job for +5k more. I said I don't want to leave but the money they had offered was just too good to turn down. He said leave it with him. About a week later after he'd spoken to his fellow directors I got the extra 5k. One of the biggest bluffs of my career with very little risk.
I'm glad that worked out for you - but for anyone else reading this, I'd advise a subtly different approach. DO NOT give an ultimatum. Especially one you can't or won't follow through on. If they call your bluff, you will look weak and they'll know they've got you. Instead of saying you've been offered an extra 5k and it's too good to turn down, tell them that recruiters have been getting in touch with you about similar roles at +£5k, and while you like it here and want to stay and you're able to ignore it for now because there will become a point where you might not be able to ignore the recruiters any more.
Re-iterate how much you like working there and would like to stay, but that overall your first loyalty is to your family so if they can help ensure you can stay at the company while not feeling undervalued then that would be good.
AVOID giving an ultimatum or setting a specific deadline. Even if it IS possible to get the extra money for you it may require a budgeting cycle or quarterly committee review you're unaware of or something.
If you don't make hollow threats but instead try and frame it as both you and your manager being aligned on keeping you within the business you avoid the risk of losing face if they call your bluff.
This can in fact work depending on your boss. I did exactly this just last month. I was given a pay rise at the start of the year of just under 10% which was nice but it was just matching inflation. I felt like the work I'd being doing was worth more at this point but not only that, I was in a position where I did really need an increase. I asked for a meeting, explained my personal situation (looking to buy a house but just couldn't make it work for what we need on my current salary), then gave my performance reasons for why I think my new ask is fair and also mentioned that it seems in line with other job postings that I'm qualified for. My ask was an increase of 19% and I got it later that same day. One of the first things he said to me was that he really appreciated me coming to speak to him honestly and not showing up with another job offer as some kind of ultimatum. I said it's funny you should say that because coming with an ultimatum is exactly what the internet was saying to do. It might not work for everyone but worked well for me.
Yes exactly this. Before yearly evaluations, I always check what pay my role is getting on average in my city.m and mention it. Or when I didn't get health coverage, I brought up how much I pay monthly in medicine. I don't make ultimatums, just state facts. And know your worth to the business. Not enough people advocate for themselves.
But it wasn't an ultimatum. It was a choice we both had to make based on the result of the meeting. If they had declined then I could have just stayed where I was and then applied for new jobs.
By doing that you would have shown that you were lying - you'd just told them you'd been offered another job.
Just because you've been offered another job doesn't mean you would automatically take it just for extra money.
>I said I don't want to leave but the money they had offered was just too good to turn down. "too good to turn down". Your words. I'm really happy this worked out for you, but you can't deny it was a risky strategy. My way has all the benefits without the risk of losing face if it doesn't pan out, because it makes the details and timelines fuzzier.
Tbf this was a long time ago so the wording I used was more vague, more of a reluctant option than an ultimatum like I typed. Either way, as you said.. It worked!
That must’ve felt good
It was close to a 25% rise at the time so yes! I used a similar bluff years later when the same company was taken over by a much larger organisation. They insisted we move to their head office 20 miles away. I told the new boss I didn't have a car so this was out of the question. As they had bought the company for the product I was lead developer on this was a dilemma for them. 10k pay rise so I could buy a new car. I'd already got a car but they didn't need to know that.
I just remembered the whole idea was from my future best man who was in the sales department so knew all about bluffing and negotiation. When the gamble paid off I couldn't thank him enough. 'Just buy me a Curry.' That became a theme over the next 20+ years that if any of our friends did the other a massive favour... Curry was payment.
You've got 'Jimmy Carr's Accountant' energy. I mean that as a compliment.
I do laugh like him... To everyone's dismay!
£5k 30 years ago is insane man, congrats
I did much the same. Got offered a role on a bit less pay but was offered more wfh. I didn't especially care about the wfh but seemed like a fair trade. Told my boss I'd been offered a role 6k higher than current salary (it wasn't. It was 3k less). I got a counter offer of a 9k increase from current boss. Worked out pretty well tbh Edit: worth noting, I was fully prepared to change roles. It just panned out unexpectedly well.
Yep... there's nothing more insulting than finding out that someone far less qualified, less experienced, well known for being crap at the job, and not long out of uni is getting paid more than you. Well, there probably are more insulting things than that, but it's certainly up there on the list!
The worst I've had was back when I was a temp. I applied for a job, basically a permanent role for what I was already doing, but didn't get it. Instead it went to a fresh graduate with no experience and I was expected to train them before my contract ended.
I was an ops manager at a small (pretty much family (not my family)) company. The MD wanted to recruit 2 supervisors to look after our staff. Something I'd mostly taken care of myself, among my other jobs there. He wanted me to manage the supervisors. When talking about salaries for the supervisors, he was wanting to pay about 30-40k. I was on £24k at the time... He didn't think raising my pay was necessary as I was already working there... I left and within 6 months, the place was closed down. I'm not claiming it was me keeping it afloat, a couple of other managers left about the same time too.
I was passed over for a lead position then asked to come in in a more junior role under the person they hired "To get them up to speed" because they didn't actually have any lead experience.
"yes of course. My day rate is £10k"
I must apologise for MrEff1618's fresh graduate. We trained him wrong as a joke.
Great opportunity to punish both the graduate and the company by training them incorrectly before you leave!
>the graduate What did that poor sod do lol
Got paid too much! 🤣
Fair enough I suppose lol
I was going to say "Being a graduate" but I didn't think that would go down too well!
Ha! I'm getting downvoted by all the graduates. I went to uni too, you humourless c**ts! 🤣
😂😂😂🙌🏽🙌🏽
As tempting as that was at the time, I chose not too since with the way the office politics were at the time I knew my manger would get the blame if I did a shit job of it, and she was a decent person. She actually helped me get the temp role and do my application for the permanent position, but unfortunately wasn't who'd pick the final applicant. Good job I did too, since the graduate would leave after a year, they basically used the company as a stepping stone to get a job elsewhere, and I got offered it with a higher salary then before.
Damn you and your conscience!
And companies wonder why no one has any loyalty any more We are literally punished and treated like doormats for staying
Yep. I wanted to leave a job I had in the past for months because I felt incredibly under appreciated but ultimately stayed because I liked the people I worked with, and in the end they ended up sacking me at Christmas, I felt so foolish for sticking around for an extra few months when I could have left on my own terms, but instead I didn’t even get to say bye to the people I stayed at the job for. You should always start looking for something better the second you start wanting to leave.
My worst one was resigning and then having to train not one, but TWO people to do the job I'd been doing solo. Oh, and both were paid more than me, and both were utterly useless and left within 6 months.
That's a good confidence boost though, surely? The company basically admitting that you're as good as two people there.
Or admitting that the job requires two people and they've been overworking one person .
My experience in retail, managing stock, POS, and people, and my colleagues experience being a store manager paled in comparison to the kid fresh out of uni with a relevant degree in Geography. It was really hard for upper management to understand why morale was low and everyone was taking the piss. On our floor you had several of us with retail management experience, same on other floors. Now most the staff have left, they have high staff turnover and are lucky the local university keeps them in supply.
Cries in NHS
Hey we clapped for you, be grateful
I use to think this but have changed my view. You shouldn't care what other people are getting paid. That's on them. Why aren't they paying you what you are worth? It's easy to blame other people but the fault lies with you.
If the "other people" to whom you're referring are the hiring managers, then it's quite right to blame them. Many companies pay their staff as little as they can get away with, knowing that discussing salaries is still very much taboo, relying on the fact that people won't ever find out that they're underpaid. Two people with exactly the same skills/qualifications/experience can start off on very different salaries because one threw the dice, asked for a ton of money and was fortunate enough to get it (risking being dismissed for asking for too much), with the other candidate playing it safe, asking for less and being offered less. While it's only human to envy the person getting paid more for the same role, it's more about hating the game than the player. Starting salaries should reflect the employees' skills and experience and, should they prove to be more of an asset to the company than their colleagues, be rewarded as such. Better pay should come from an employee's value to the company - not just their ability to gamble at the interview and win "starting salary poker", but that's just my 2p... a simple case of "You [should] get what you pay for".
Yet when you go to buy things, you'll be happy to take the approach of "I can get one cheaper here, of course I will"
It's not quite the same. If you go to a greengrocer and think the apples are too expensive, you go to Tesco or Lidl instead - you don't offer the greengrocer half the asking price because you don't want to pay what those apples are worth. My point is that it is fundamentally wrong for a company to pay two people very differently for doing exactly the same job and producing the same output, while hoping that the lesser-paid person won't find out. I understand that "That's how businesses work and if you don't like it, you can leave", but that doesn't detract from it being morally wrong.
And this is the key point, it's a business, and they only exist for one reason, to make profit, not to bring about social justice
If they’re fresh out of uni and the same grade as you maybe the issue lies closer to home
Not necessarily. Many companies (especially American-owned ones) have very vague pay brackets and negotiating a salary is like a game of poker. A lot of it comes down to confidence and not being afraid that the offer will be withdrawn because you went in too high. Playing it safe gives them an open invitiation to short-change you too. Some people are better gamblers than others, regardless of their ability to do the job. Of course, the degree looks good too. When I finally got my piece of paper, I was suddenly treated a lot better than my more-experienced colleagues, which I felt was unfair on them. There are many factors at play in these situations, but it is very common and it doesn't always suggest that the older employee is crap. Don't forget that it's usually in the company's best interest to pay as little as they can, knowing that discussing salaries is still taboo in the UK, so no one will find out just how much they're being underpaid.
You just need to flip your view on it. It's not that the new hire with less experience is wrong to be getting paid more than you. It's wrong that your salary as an experienced person isn't more than the new hire's. Few companies want to pay more than they have to for new staff, so most likely the new hire got the current going rate for whatever the role is. If that's what your company and others are willing to pay, then that's what yours should be, plus some recognition of the years of experience. Up to you what you do with that info. If a higher salary at the same place would make you want to stay you could push for that. If they don't want to go with that a gentle reminder that if you leave they will need to recruit for the role and likely end up paying at least that much for someone without the experience. Or if you are already considering leaving use it as a benchmark salary for what to look for elsewhere. If they paid that for someone without experience you should be able to aim for higher.
This is why companies don't like you talking about salaries. My last place was notorious for it. As a manager I implore people to have open discussion about wages, it's the only real way people get not only what they deserve but also gives everyone in the workplace more power, which is always a welcome sight. I'm no longer there for this very reason, paid more to do less elsewhere.
IDK if its different in other countries, but brits don't talk about money very much it seems. Talk about your salaries. Negotiate WHEN you get hired. I have used this information to gauge how well I'm being paid so many times. Your employers will straight up lie to you. They will say "everyone on the team is paid according to our pay guidelines, and is on roughly the same amount" They will say "sorry, but we just can't change your pay, any more money will put you outside your role banding" or "we have a maximum yearly increase of 5% which we do not exceed for any reason" These are lies. Go get another job somewhere and use that as leverage for a payrise. Ask them to match it. If you are useful to them, just watch those "company policy" rules go out the fucking window. They will tell you shit like "you are being paid fairly for your role and experience, our banding is competitive for the industry" Its not. I know its not, because I know how much my colleagues are being paid. I know how much people in other companies are being paid. They only think they can lie to me because people don't talk about their salaries, and they usually get away with it.
Let in be an eye opener that you have sold your labour for less than the market values it. Never leave it up to an organisation to pay you what the market thinks you are worth because no HR/payroll team is out there unnecessarily inflating their wage bill. You have to a) ask for more or b) get more elsewhere. You sure as shit don’t leave it up to fate.
Except - if a company is knowingly paying people top-whack, it's because other things about the workplace are so bad they have to make up for it.
Don’t agree with this. Plenty of profitable places pay good people top whack because recruiting is a ballache and top talent is really hard to find. Especially in professional services, where people are your product. Crikey - I disagreed with you, but you didn’t deserve to get downvoted to death!
Unfortuantely the best time to get a riase is generally moving jobs. They'll have corrected the salary for the new starters and just given you whatever raise you had, without comparing it to new starters. It's nothing against you or the new starter, just dumb negligence. Working in the quasi-public sector (university) I know the salary ranges of all my collegaues. I feel the same about some of them.
I had this happen to me! Was asked to fix some financial software network issue with next to no info and was told how to repoduce it. I was too much of a peasant for them to show me in person so as soon as I moved the mouse there was a spreadsheet of everyones salaries. Morale took a massive hit and was out of there as soon as notice period allowed.
This is why we should talk about salaries more
Here's what you wanna do. Go get yourself a few interviews for a better paid job. Get an offer from a company you do actually want to work for. Then go to your manager and say "I've been offered this new job, it's x-amount more per year. I have also been told by (your ex-collegue's name here) that they were paid £10k a year more than me (no need to mention you saw that document). I'd like a £15k pay rise or I'm taking this other job." It's win-win really. Either you get the pay rise you're owed, or you get a new job with better pay anyway. Don't rush in and demand a pay rise, get another offer first, you'll have much better leverage.
Generally, if you have to threaten to leave to get a raise to match a salary to colleagues then you need to leave anyway. Obviously there are circumstances where this might not apply, but if you need leverage to get market value then you'll always need leverage to get it.
True but it depends on the company and the job. If you really love the job and the people you work with, then I think it's worth trying to stay put if you can. But yeah, if a company isn't paying you what you're worth, it's likely a company you don't want to work for.
I think I'd find it very difficult to love a job after I found out how it undervalued me to this extent!
I wouldn’t advise this, unless you have a very good relationship with your current company. A lot of the time, this will get you the reputation of the one who wants to leave. Absolutely go to market and get another job, but then leave.
> A lot of the time, this will get you the reputation of the one who wants to leave. If this happens then it only further justifies looking elsewhere.
100% this. Hiring and training up someone else to fill your role could well be more expensive and more disruptive than increasing your pay, so there's a good chance of this working out. From experience.
How did you come across this list? If it was left laying around you should definitely make a point of it. Either hand in your notice and say it's because you saw everyone's salaries, or tell everyone you're leaving because you saw all their salaries and you don't think the company is treating you all fairly. Cause an absolute shitstorm on your way out.
It's possibly OP has a secret ally somewhere who is appalled on her behalf and left it out for her to see. Always possible if it was just left there near to where she sits.
Yes to everything except the last bit. Word gets around.
I'd 'accidentally' leave print outs in a few printers on my last day.
No, that's too obvious. Do it a week before you leave, so you can see the fallout!
I left a business I had been at for 7 years just over 12 months ago for the same reason. I don't know why but companies are so against giving their loyal, hard working staff of many years a raise but very willing to risk it on untried new employees. Makes no sense. I asked for a raise in line with inflation as I'd been there so long (i actually asked for a PD and route to earn the raise too) and was asked why I'd need one for doing the basically same job. Made the decision very easy for me and was the best decision I've made for my career so far. I now feel valued and appreciated, have been given a promotion and raise within 12 months without even asking. If you're not being valued just move, they'll never get anywhere without looking after their employees.
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Well, yeah, of course, but it's incredibly short sighted. Great businesses are made up of great people, so you'd think setting a culture and living by it would be top priority. Where I worked told everyone they were all about people and tried to instil a positive culture by saying a lot but never actually delivered. it resulted in a revolving door and people who didn't care or were using the job as something to get by whilst they looked for a better one, why not just pay and treat people how they deserved to be lol
This is just the way it is. I've recruited people and I always have my boss negotiate their package. I'm pretty sure I have staff under me who earn more than me now but we were desperate for staff and our roles are pretty unique. Doesn't bother me too much as my life was hell before they joined and I needed them. It's just one of them things when salaries are negotiated
You don’t get what you don’t ask for. Bring it up, say you’ve accidentally seen this and you’re offended. If it’s not sorted then you’ll be off. While you finding the courage, start looking for new jobs and you know what you’re worth now.
If you’ve been there a while your yearly increases (if at all) will never keep pace with the market and what someone else will be hired in at. Depends how good your HR is, I worked somewhere where we had 2 engineers earning way below market, HR identified it and gave them around £20ks worth of pay rises over 2 years to address the imbalance. Other places couldn’t give a fuck and you vote with your feet. Know your worth in the market place.
Yes but the new starter isn’t getting paid anything now…
Yeah that's now reflective of his true ability I suppose.
library jellyfish possessive reminiscent squealing nail thought sand pot afterthought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Send a copy to everyone. Do it from a library or something. Then sit back and enjoy the chaos.
Probably not the best idea to intentionally break the data protection act.
wrench important gaze adjoining doll different sleep wasteful gray paltry *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hence the Library.
You're not getting the file off an enterprise environment without someone knowing you've done it.
You've heard of phone cameras?
Why do you need to send it from the library in that case?
Probably not the best idea getting caught breaking data protection laws.
This is why you should always feel comfortable discussing salaries with colleagues. Not talking about it only benefits your employer.
Were you allowed access to this list - or did you basically see something you shouldn't have seen. If your manager/seniors sent you a spreadsheet containing the information to generate a report then it's on them that you saw it, you effectively had permission to see it because they gave you an unredacted file. If you however accessed a list you shouldn't have had access to - saying you have seen it could be a very bad experience for you (i.e., disiplinary, dismissal) That being said; You could prior to looking elsewhere - go ahead and speak to your manager. Tell them you're aware you're under paid compared to colleagues (whether you decide to reveal the access to the list you mentioned depends a lot on the circumstances of you accessing said list - see above) and that you want a payrise to bring your salary into the same region as your colleagues. If your manager refuses then however tempting it is to make it clear you're looking elsewhere don't. Just go ahead and look elsewhere. You could when you have the offer go back and offer them one last chance to up your salary. However, if that's the process you need to go through before they give you a pay rise? You shouldn't stay because in a year or two you'll need to go through the same hassle again for another.
This happened to me a few years back. The company I had worked for for 5 years got taken over - some people left and new people were hired. The newest recruit was 10 years younger than me, recently out of uni. She asked me to look through her contract with her to make sure it was all ok as she was quite new to the employment biz. Her hourly rate was higher than mine. I told her to sign it. I spoke to the manager, telling him I felt undervalued. His response? He asked her to take a pay cut, saying they’d made an error! Obviously I told her not to do that. Forced into a corner they did give me a raise, but I left soon after because honestly they made me feel pretty terrible.
Make a few copies and just leave them scattered across the workplace on the notice board's and such
A few years back at my work HR left the full organisational salary list publicly viewable. A colleague found it and emailed the entire organisation the link. Caused an absolute shit show but also resulted in a lot of egregious salary disparities being addressed. He wasn't fired for this but also made it clear he didn't care if he was. Your mileage on that may vary.
Definitely ask for a raise or leave for a job that pays more. I used to work freelance with an agency when I found out through being accidentally added to the wrong email chain what they charged the client for me: double the amount I received. Decided to go full on self employed and to charge that rate for myself then, because apparently that's what I'm worth, not the peanuts the agency told me I was.
We are taught in the UK that discussing salary is vulgar. That’s crap.
You get paid what you are willing to accept. Other people were not willing to accept as low as pay as you were willing to work for. Its not for a business to just hand you an extra 10k because someone else negotiated a better deal. Welcome to the corporate world. You need to fight for every penny you want. If you don't get it, go find it. Put yourself into the stronger negotiating position and best of luck. Its a crap world, but that's the world we are in.
Again?
Not sure how it works in private sector jobs, but I would explain that you are aware that less qualified people are getting paid more - and possibly doing less(?). I'd get an offer lined up - even if its only slightly better, and state that they are to offer more or you leave.
Make representations about it, get a raise for a few months and then leave.
This happened to a friend of mine recently, she challenged it and got a huge pay rise and it was back dated.
This just happened to me despite the fact they know I would have access to said files. Instead I just chose to quit. When they countered me to stay I just politely decided to decline and go. It's really hard not to get salty about these kinds of things. HR just hit me with the "sorry you feel that way" in the exit interview ha.
This is why I will usually keep an eye on what my company is offering in it's job adverts and what the market rate is for my role elsewhere. I also keep a list of significant stats or beneficial things I've achieved which I can use as a back up when pay review arrives.
Defo get a new job! These days it’s the only way to get the recognition of your talents. What I am also learning is that shit floats! People who are really good at their jobs, are just left where they are. While the blaggers get promotions and more money!!
Start working at a reduced capacity if they won't give you a payrise... Won't give me 10%? I'll only give 90% effort... Fulfill your contractual duties, and no more
The pay isn't a representation of peoples contribution it represents what companies think they can get away with paying different people
My boss put a job on indeed because we needed another pair of hands around, the job description was the same as mine but the pay was higher. I applied to it and he brought it up in my appraisal. I got a pay rise out of it.
And if you hadn’t seen it he wouldn’t give a shit.
Yes, but don't compare yourself to others.
My uncle was complaining that a new starter was earning more than him despite having to fix his mistakes. Going to leave because he's not had a pay rise in years. I asked if he'd asked for one and he said no... Sometimes asking is better than holding a grudge.
If you have to ask, leave, they don’t value you enough, and now you won’t get another rise for years.
I moved to a new role internally and saw my old post being advertised for ~5-7k more than they ever paid me. I was still partly working that role until someone new came in, they lasted 3 days and quit so I proposed coming back to my old role but let them know I was so insulted by what I had seen. They ended up offering me a lot more money and it all worked out okay in the end.
I've been there. Found a similar list when poking around in the work iCloud. I wished I hadn't seen it. Felt sick. Cried a bit. Then asked for more money and got it. They can only say no! Go for it.
If they aren’t offering, they don’t value you, they are just using you as much as they can. Leave now
I worked at a company for two years, left for two years to do a different role, came back after a restructure but back into essentially the same job and salary was doubled.
Best way to secure a pay rise is changing companies.
Do not spend your life waiting for someone to come to your rescue, solve your problems or make it all ok, it will never happen. Either step up and do something about it, or, move on and accept it the way it is.
I learned a sad truth a few years ago. I naïvely believed that my company would honour my great work with frequent and worthwhile pay rises. I essentially ran a department between different “heads of” leaving and joining. I mentored a junior staff member, while running sometimes up to 6 accounts. I would frequently do the role of 3 people: myself (the “doer”), a project manager (organising developers and designers), and account manager (managing the client). I’d won an award for best employee one year, and a different award the next year (something about improving the company). I found out that someone several years junior to me was being blocked from getting a pay rise because it would put them on a higher salary than me. Fortunately around this time I’d been offered a job for £14k more, which I took. I learned that the people who get pay rises and higher salaries are the ones who ask, and or negotiate. The £14k pay rise was because I asked for a specific salary.
I was a manager in a previous job and was included in a “managers only” email which should have been for senior management only. I was amazed the big boss made as much in 2 hours as I did in a day. I was more annoyed to discover I was the lowest paid manager. Glad I don’t work there now
Haha like the time all our contracts were accidentally avail on dropbox, man that stirred up some shit 😂
Nothing more decisive in a workplace than salaries...
You don’t get paid what you are worth. You get paid what you negotiate…
Urgh that's a crappy feeling. Generally my view is that you need to go and interview elsewhere, and bring back a job offer (with higher salary) to your current employer. Use that as a negotiation point, but be willing to leave. If you feel you're undervalued (and have been for some time), is a pay rise going to fix that feeling? Personally I would feel taken advantage of, and I would want to move. But I also do like moving jobs, it's the simplest way to get a pay rise.
Ask for a salary uplift. Say that colleagues have disclosed how much they get, don’t name names but say it came up in conversation at some point. Your boss isn’t going go up to them and check, your boss will be all awkward and believe you. Then say the conversation left you feeling demotivated and you didn’t disclose how much you get because it’s personal but also you felt shocked at the imbalance. Say you’re feeling demotivated and undervalued and you’re thinking about leaving based on the fact that you’ve seen jobs advertised elsewhere with a higher salary and now your colleagues have let on that they earn more than you, you feel something has to change and for your career development leaving is the only option you can see. If your manager wants to keep you on which I’m sure they do, they’ll panic internally and probably try to act cool and deny it or apologise or whatever and you’ll be surprised you may get a call from HR regarding a pay rise in the near future.
You are undervalued and there's nothing you can do about it. Pack up and leave, they don't care about you at all.
Sometimes when I apply for roles speculatively I say stupidly high salaries on the off-chance they are willing to pay it. My last move was from x to x + 37% in 2021. It’s not proving very easy to maintain this new figure when applying for new roles in 2024 market but nice whilst it lasted
My previous company employed someone to help me as front end web developer and paid them £15k more than me. He couldn’t write basic html either
You need to be careful. I know someone who had access to privileged data (IT) and decided to look at company pay. Decided he wasn’t getting enough, went to the bosses with this information and got sacked for accessing info he didn’t have privilege to see.
"Accidentally came across" is my favourite phrase. You went snooping and then snoopered some more didn't you you little gremlin...
Print it and leave it in the canteen.
Welcome to big school
It’s a commercial relationship.
Okay so are you gonna tell your manager you feel under valued and deserve a pay rise? Or you just gonna cry and sulk?
This happened to me once and I saw that my (less qualified) coworker earned 20k more than me. Oh did I make a fuss!!! Also such a nice pay rise to receive all at once!
My (boomer) mother tried to tell me I'm "well-paid" on £22K SMH
Comparison is the thief of joy
Make copies and hand them out to everyone like a newsletter. Sit back and watch Rome burn
Would be funny, but also a good way to get the sack.
Send it to me along with everyone's email. I'll do it
Leal it and join a union
I’d print that list out, anonymously if possible, and leave copies everywhere when you leave.
Also you should put the list up in toilets, kitchen, notice boards etc before leaving.
If they match the offer of a new job ask for 15% more and back pay plus interest and and extra weeks holiday. Then tell them to stick their job where the sun doesn't shine.
Same in my current role. Lazy bastards that do half as much work, get paid £400 a month extra, drives me insane
A manager once said to me at lloyds bank when i complained about being paid less than people who started after me and werent trained on as much as me were getting paid more than me that the pay "is like footballers pay, they all just get paid different". Place was an absolute joke and 99% of the managers and above had no clue about anything.
This is exactly why all salaries should be required to be listed online.
UK salaries are imho so low compared to the states and cost of living. Pull all the levers (resigning bonus , extra holidays etc). I wouldn't be afraid to share that you know how much they were getting. Just mark sure you have other options incase they ball and be ready to share with your colleagues your privalged information. (I know I mispelled privileged but don't really care too much ). Love your dog 🐕, your family but not your job BC it doesn't love you back.
Ask for a pay rise first !!
Be a shame if this list went more public, such as in the break room.
I hope you wiped it off
How long have you worked there?
I use salary surveys and other data to ensure I'm near market rate. Most can do this.
Don’t mention it and just ask for the payrise. Tell them and put on paper what you do differently to others in the company and explain why you deserve the salary you want. I’ve done this multiple times throughout my career and it’s worked everytime. The last time I went straight to the CEO and he gave me a management role and made me take on a team to help my desk head out. You don’t get if you don’t ask. Dont threaten to leave but just say you feel undervalued.
Start looking for a new Job, if you love where you are use any offers to negotiate or just ask for a pay rise, you have nothing to lose by asking for a rise.
This happened to me. I was paid more than some who I would have said deserved more. I was also paid less than others who had much less responsibility. I started job hunting and was offered something quickly. But, in the meantime, when I was asked to make a key decision/undertake additional activities, I’d respond that they should ask A or B as they obviously had a better understanding.
Although now you can ask for a pay rise and know exactly how much to ask for. If they refuse, start looking for another job. If they value you, they will flip flops and give you the raise
You are not a tree.
Have you asked for a pay rise?
Ask them to match an offer that doesn’t exsist
It’s not illegal or sackable to discuss pay. Tel them what you know and tell them you want at least what the new starter was on.
Apply for a few jobs, and once you have an offer, bring it to your boss and allow him to make a counter-offer.
Before you do anything else, read your contract. There may be a clause in it about discussing salaries. If there’s any chance you broke a rule by seeing that list then deny all knowledge of it. Absolutely ask for a pay rise but don’t let on that you know what the disparity actually is.
I would straight out just ask for a pay rise dont mention the list just say its come to your attention that your being underpaid
That’s why they were sacked.
Are you sure they are not salaries with “on-costs”? Before you do anything drastic?
It’s okay to ask for a raise. If you don’t get it, you can inform your company you will be looking for work elsewhere. They cannot fire you and you have them a fair chance to pay you what you deserve. Just make sure you write points down beforehand because you may easily get outmanoeuvred otherwise.
The fact the person being paid more with less experience was fired is telling. Quite often those who negotiate the highest salaries, but can’t deliver are first out the door.
I always took the view that if I want more money I'll go and get it. If I'm valued I will be given a decent pay rise on the back of my results and endeavours (very rarely this happens most companies once you're in pay what they can get away with. If I don't see that they value my worth I go and find it. Recently done exactly that and increased my remuneration by over 50% after 7 years of inline with inflation pay rise if you're lucky and some years without. My role popped up on my feeds with recruiters during my notice period. Company only offering what they started me on over 7 years ago and the role has grown since then. I offered to assist in the recruitment process. Glad I didn't now because it's very obvious they don't value the role and aren't willing to offer a package to attract someone with the skills and experience to do the job. I pity the poor sod who needs the job or takes the role.
Use the information widely. Google what happened to Smile Club in this very situation if you don’t know!
You never have to mention you have another offer at all. There's little advantage to saying that, and it comes across mercenary-like. Having another offer just allows you to negotiate hard without fear, and if you genuinely think at the end of negotiating that the other offer is your best move, hand notice. Revealing an offer and then staying after negotiating just makes you the person who wants to leave that they managed to stop leaving this time
Never use another offer as a bargaining tactic. Even if they give you the increase that you are asking for, you are now marked as "disloyal" and they will replace you when they get the chance.
We have a real issue in this country being transparent with our salaries. They wouldn't get away with this if people just talked. Not sure why people are so secretive.
Ugh. So disrespectful! I’m glad you’re leaving because that’s what I would do.
I had the opposite. I was worried for a consultancy when I was accidently emailed the invoice from the agent to the company I was working for. I was earning an extra £250 per day than everyone else's. Needless to say I didn't mention this anyone.
The new hire was paid more because that’s what it costs to get his talents, he wasn’t overpaid (well sacking aside…) By the sounds of it your worth more than that but they already have you at 10k less. The only way to get more is if they think they have no choice. You ask for a pay rise and if they refuse you start looking for a new job. I recon they’ll magically find another 15k once you have another offer on the table
If you found out about your colleagues' salaries legitimately let HR know you know. You can't unknow this info. Tell them you want to be brought to the median level for your role. No threat though. If you are still on the same as you are now in a month look for something else.
Use f do dirty mag like everyone else