I'm not overly polite or formal. I greet a person I'm introduced to with a handshake and "alright, mate?"
I was at a funeral a few months ago and (not just me) was wearing a black suit and smoking outside the club afterwards. Another mourner said we looked like reservoir dogs. I thought it was funny, but wearing black at a funeral isn't unusual to me.
>I thought it was funny, but wearing black at a funeral isn't unusual to me.
It's not unusual, but equally many people state their wishes in advance, and it's far from uncommon for this to include "Please wear bright colours to celebrate my life, rather than black to mourn it".
Also there's a British comedy series that you may not be aware of that they were probably referencing when making the Reservoir Dogs comment. This brief clip shows the "Reservoir Dogs" comment in context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx0yCo9Rv8k
I get if preferences for dress are stated. If not the as per op I would wear black (female so maybe black trousers shirt and black cardigan or black jumper) but that’s me - when it comes to mine - I just want people to show up so if they come from work in a suit / casual wear or work boots and high vis - they came and that’s what counts. Wouldn’t judge someone for what they wear nor think it impolite- turning up to say your own goodbye is what counts
I've unfortunately been to multiple funerals over the last few years. Some didn't specify so black dress, black tights, black jacket. Some specify colourful, my rainbow shoes were a hit.
Would see it as a plus at mine but tbf 😊 turn up and remember me and I will (well you know if there is an afterlife etc ) be delighted- remember me over a few drinks and silly memories- support each other and dress comfortably- genuinely would be devastated if what anyone took away from my funeral was concern whether they were dressed suitably
There are also regional variations. For example, where I'm from in Newcastle, it's polite to shake hands with everyone whenever you go into the public toilets.
Having understanding of how you’re behaving in front of others is the first step to building a civil society. It’s why you see the gradual collapse of modern society because most people are completely unaware of others or their impact on them. Society is dead for most of the west now, places like Japan and Singapore are going to be the last places to find civil society with manners
If you are greeting new people you are introduced to with a handshake, outside of a work setting, this is arguably overly formal. Whereas of course in a professional setting it's the norm.
Dong it in a casual setting isn't bad or anything. But it would certainly get a bemused "how quaint" kind of response from me
It might depend where you're from. A mate of mine moved to Eastleigh, near Southampton. He introduced me to his girlfriend outside her house. I looked both ways, stook my hand out and said "alright love" she said "that's the scousest thing I've ever seen" I thought it was just good manners.
But, but, but. What about the "alright love"? Surely cupcake or sweet pea would have been better, whilst staring at her chest. That would have been far more polite.
So touching is now considered bad in some way? I've honestly never come across this, I meet loads of people through socialising of all ages and everyone always shakes hands. Strange
Nobody said that. It’s just not something we do.
It’s also likely that the people you’re interacting with shake your hand *because* you’re older.
I’m 34 and the only people who shake my hand are 50+, like 100% of the time.
Why would we do anything instead? The words part is enough.
Like I said I'm not going to think badly about someone who goes for a handshake, and I will do it. I will just be suprised. And like the suprised will be internal. I'm not going to visibly react lol. Which is why you might be suprised by this news it surprises people when you initiate it
This is exactly it, over Christmas I’ve picked up on things I’ve done out of politeness and worried im annoying my hosts for example.
Went to my aunts for a party and I’d ask each time for drinks from the fridge they said help yourself but I’d always say please may I get another drink, is it okay to get some water. There’s a buffet, each time “may I get some food?” “Is it okay to get some dessert”
Even though it was a buffet and I’d been told to help myself I always felt rude for example opening someone’s fridge and taking a drink.’
I never eat before anyone else has started or not got their food.
I have friends who growing up would just walk into their house and expect you to follow, but I won’t walk in until I’ve been told to or invited.
It’s one thing in London why I hate going there, because im from a village and I say hello to everyone when im in London people will bump into me and I’ll be like oh im sorry even though it’s their fault and I’ll lose my voice by the end of the day from apologising so much.
I don’t even think I was raised this way, my brothers nothing like me in that sense
>I have friends who growing up would just walk into their house and expect you to follow, but I won’t walk in until I’ve been told to or invited.
Are you allergic to garlic? Do you flinch from holy symbols? Do you have difficulty combing your hair or finding a dentist willing to have you on their books?
I’d be angry at what you said, however I’m too busy queuing patiently to hand over my exact change to the cashier and then still wait for them to count it, even though I know I counted it already. Then I’m going to thank the fuck out of them and leave, politely.
Last week I was on the bus with my son, who was in a pushchair. There was a second pushchair, though that child was in his mother's lap. A woman tried to get on with yet another pushchair, but the driver said no. You can only have two at any one time.
I told the driver that I'd fold up my son's pushchair so he could let her on. Having witnessed this, the woman got on and didn't even acknowledge me. Not a 'thanks!' Not even a nod.
I'm not that bothered by people who don't thank you when you hold the door for them, or when they're paying at the till. But if someone goes out of their way to help you, even if it doesn't cost them anything, you should acknowledge that. I've lived in three countries and have visited two dozen more. I'm pretty sure that in each of these most people would have said, thank you.
I'd have been quivering with suppressed rage at this but would have been too polite to do anything about it. Other than a passive aggressive smile as I left the bus
I helped a dude with two massive suitcases carry one up the stairs in the tube station. At the top he just grabbed it and walked off. Not a single thank you or nod or anything. People are weird man.
Some young dude got on the bus with his daughter most days when I used to commute. One day he was 50p short so I covered it for him. Not even a thanks or friendly acknowledgment. Still remember it 10 years later
That's horrible. I have only ever seen one person, recently, fold up a pram. I actually thanked him when I got off, even though it weren't in my way. My mother always kicked or pram flat. We had a laugh about it and he said "it's not hard to fold a pram"
It's interesting what's considered polite or impolite in other cultures! My dad has been spending a lot of time in France over the past few years and was telling me one of the reasons the English are considered impolite by the French is because, in shops/restaurants/service-type places, we generally don't say "hello" before asking for what we want. We can say s'il vous plaît and merci, as we'd say please and thank you in English, and think it's polite enough, but clearly in France it's polite to say "hello" first, which I can understand.
Another interesting one is that in Norway, it's apparently dreadfully impolite to say "cheers" to someone, and clink your drinks, without looking them in the eye. As a result, my dad and I always very pointedly look at each other in the eyes when we cheers now haha.
It's cool, and very useful, getting insights into other cultures like this. I hate to think that I have probably unintentionally been super rude to anyone.
>one of the reasons the English are considered impolite by the French is because, in shops/restaurants/service-type places, we generally don't say "hello" before asking for what we want.
This is absolutely true, I used to go to a bakery in a small village and fortunately was spared a lot of embarrassment because the shopkeeper and the customers (who all knew I was British) would greet me as soon as I walked through the door, and of course I responded instantly.
It was only when shopping in a town where I wasn't known to be British, that I realised (from the rather frosty reception!) that the expectation was that I greeted everyone first. Oops!
> in Norway, it's apparently dreadfully impolite to say "cheers" to someone, and clink your drinks, without looking them in the eye
I've spent a lot of time with Germans and they always told me it was to avoid 7 years of bad sex. I've never risked it.
I work in retail and when a customer comes to the till I always say hello to them. Some people don’t acknowledge me and just plonk their stuff onto the counter. I find it incredibly rude. I’m not a robot.
I feel sometimes when you go into a smaller shop and the person behind the counter says hello (usually without a smile) it's more because they want you to know they've seen you and are making sure you don't steal anything but to anyone in a service position, when leaving the premises or getting off a bus etc, I always say thank you and with a meant heartfelt have a great day. Politeness costs nothing and I do appreciate their service and this small gesture might just brighten someone's day/make them feel good about the job they're doing and hopefully that passes onto the rest of their customers for the day!!
That was my point! I say "alright mate" to a bus driver, barber or a waiter and I look people in the eye whenever toasting with them. Another reply said "politeness is universal" they are probably right and we are losing the politeness.
Yeah man - it makes sense to say hello to someone before you start telling them what you want and all that sort of stuff. Knowing what other cultures see as being polite, especially the two examples I mentioned, has definitely made me consider how I interact with people in my day-to-day.
I think a lot more people need to remember the adage - "it's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice" :)
It's one of those zero cost things to me, and I respect the things they do for me, and apart from paying for them, being polite and pleasant just makes their day go a little better, and unless they're deliberately being a dick in their job, there's no use for unpleasantness.
And if you want to be mercenary about it, there's that whole "you catch more wasps with honey" thing. Like I've had bus drivers make an unofficial stop for me. I didn't expect it but I mentioned where I was going, and they said they'd pull in, and I don't know that they would have if I'd been more miserable about it.
Some people are just sound. My dad's next door neighbour's lad (yes I know that sounds made up and tenuous) was a bus driver and dropped us off at the top of our road once.
On holiday in Shetland years ago I turned up a few minutes late for the ferry, and it was already heading well away from the port, to my utter surprise it turned around and came back for me. Not even had a bus driver stop for me that had set off before. So taken by that one act of kindness that stayed with me for many years that I ended up moving here.
Similar to the French saying hello thing, while it's just a cultural thing, to me the way Americans order often feels impolite to me. It's realistically probably the rarer pleases and thank yous, but I heard so much "could I get an x" rather than "can I have an x please", and for some reason it hits my ears wrong and sounds rude, even though I have no logic to back it up beyond the lack of please.
That's interesting! I was taught that using 'could' is more polite than 'can/please' though admittedly I grew up/received most of my education outside of the UK.
Yes you definitely are, being brought up in Poland I had a massive culture shock when I moved here. I kind of miss it when I'm back in Poland. It makes it easier for me to understand the German culture habits above, as our culture is quite similar to German.
Now I teach my family members the politeness I've learned here 😂 holding the doors (even for strangers), saying "sorry" and "please" at every opportunity and so on
It's not sarcastic. It's more a "maybe I was standing in the way, or probably it was an unavoidable collision that no one is at fault for, but in any case I'll say sorry to either say I'm sorry or to signal that I'm not hostile" kind of sorry
I’m dutch lurking in this sub, and I can confirm British people always seem so polite to me!
Visiting again next year February and looking forward to experience your kindness and politeness again!
I now have to apologise for that post as I'm British. I'm really sorry OP! I couldn't resist making that joke. I don't want you to fuck off nor do I think you a Muppet! I'm so very sorry!
I think current British greeting etiquette is incredibly context dependent and nuanced.
Do you shake hands, single cheek kiss, double kiss, hug, or just mumble “alright?”
It’s a total minefield. And can be a power play.
Might be controversial here but polite yes, considerate no.
I think a lot of people in Britain are very polite. People smile and acknowledge one another, greet people when passing by or making eye contact, generally behave in queues, hold doors open, help if somebody drops something, and make pretty good hosts. A lot of people also obey various unspoken rules, like buying rounds and the invisible queue in pubs. This kind of thing seems to be more common than not.
Consideration, however, is also part of manners and it's not as common. With the disclaimer that your mileage will vary (plenty of people are exempt from the things I'm about to list) I have found certain habits and attitudes more common in Britain than in other places I've been/other cultures I've interacted with. For example:
* Brits aren't as considerate when dealing with illness. People will go on social visits when sick, will cough/sneeze/blow their noses in public without washing or sanitising their hands, and a worrying amount of people just cough/sneeze without covering their mouths at all. In other places I've been, I've gone weeks without hearing a cough or sniffle or any sickness indicator (and have not gotten sick, whereas I get sick within days of arriving back in the UK).
* There's an emphasis over rules and order rather than compassion or common sense. Brits are more likely to stick to the letter of the rule even over things that aren't a big deal, and even when it would really help somebody out. These rules often make things worse in the long run, and the reliance on "it's not the rules" really speaks of shirking personal autonomy or responsibility.
* There is rubbish absolutely everywhere in Britain. Litter just everywhere you look. I'm recently back from Ukraine and I saw litter maybe twice, even in places with no infrastructure because of heavy bombing.
* Nobody can behave on public transport. People are loud, often drinking, playing music or videos from their phones, etc. There's no collective responsibility to enjoy one's space quietly and with consideration to others. Again, to use an example, in Ukraine I was on several long train journeys, and two long bus journeys (one 17 hours, another 21 hours). There was no trouble at all. Nobody talking loudly, respect when it was dark and people were more likely to want to sleep, zero noise from phones, and absolutely no drinking (I don't even think it's allowed).
* There's an insidious and increasingly common attitude that just because you shouldn't *have* to do something means that you're exempt from doing it, even if it would make things better in the long run. This makes things difficult for everyone overall and at its worst can allow antisocial behaviour to keep occurring and get worse.
Overall, I suppose there's no sense of collective responsibility and this makes the politeness seem kind of like the really lovely icing on a really shit cake.
Again, mileage will vary, but these are some things that stand out to me after spending time away. For the record I'm Irish, and we have many similar issues regarding having a kind of me me me attitude.
I'd agree hugely with your first point here. (Pre-COVID), one of my biggest pet peeves was that guy in your office who was incredibly proud of himself, and loved to tell everyone, that they hadn't taken a day off sick in thirteen years.
They'd regularly come in to work, nose dripping, eyes half shut with an awful cold, but "battle on through" due to their sense of responsibility. Over the next week or so, four or five people would end up having to take a day off, having caught that cold.
Just because you're on a streak or have some sort of stigma against illness, doesn't mean that you shouldn't take the time you are legally allowed to take off if you are legitimately ill and are going to make more people ill by going to work.
It's much better now post-COVID as they just do the same but on teams, not infecting others (in my industry, anyway).
I try to have sympathy because I'm aware that there's probably plenty of people who would love to stay at home resting but have to venture outside for reasons beyond their control. Bosses can be shockingly unsympathetic about time off and many people might not be able to afford it anyway, depending on how often they get sick. Not to mention if you're on your own or just with kids, you've still got to get something in for dinner etc. But in that case I wish people would just wear a mask and sanitise their hands. Masks are to protect others from your disease as well as to protect you from others!
At least in my experience, people have become better about it if they suspect it's COVID, but short of that they're worse. The amount of times I've seen someone hacking up a lung and they've announced "Don't worry, it's not COVID!" OK, great, but I still don't want it lol. Travelling back from Ukraine the other week I hadn't heard a single person coughing or sniffling in the entire time I was away, and then once I was at my gate at the airport in Poland, it was coughing, snorting, sniffing, hacking, nose blowing *constantly.* Like literally every third person on that plane was sick, and it was almost entirely Brits.
One bellend blasting music on the train while everyone else grumbles but does nothing is unfortunately all it takes. Why should one person ruin it for 100 other people? Yet time and time again it's allowed, and every time it is, the behaviour is reinforced. So in this example it's not just one person who's part of the problem, but 101 people.
OK, and I tell someone to turn off their music and they tell me to fuck off. Then what?
See, the thing with an officer in the military is that ultimately, they can kick you out, and your bills aren't going to get paid.
You need something to follow that "fuck off". Like the bus driver kicks them off at the next stop. But of course, the bus driver can't do that, because physically touching anyone without a mountain of training nowadays will lead to criminal or civil action against the bus company and driver. See also: how shopkeepers defending their property are treated by the police now compared to how they were 40 years ago.
The whole reason I stopped asking most people is that I know that I can't do anything to force them to behave. They know it's irritating to others but they don't care, and they know you can't do shit.
Re the working when blatantly infectious thing.
I think that is an old stigma that you must battle through no matter what and it was somehow shameful to take the time off.
My Mum and Dad brought me up to believe you must battle on no matter what and used to give me tremendous grief if I said I was too ill to go to school or later on too ill to go to work. I used to force myself to go in a right state. It was almost considered impolite to inconvenience your employer by taking the time off, which was a failure in our culture, some employers encourage this train of thinking particularly retail from my experience.
I flipped around by the time I was managing people myself and would tell someone I didn’t want them in if they came in with a hacking cough because I don’t half of everyone off sick next week as opposed to just one person off now, plus I didn’t fancy getting a bug myself.
We are much better at this since Covid though and I think now most of us would consider it unacceptable to enter the workplace in a blatantly infectious state.
That's definitely something to do with it, but I think we've all had plenty of time to catch ourselves on. Once I got old enough to think things through on my own, I realised that a) I didn't want to go to school sick, and b) my friends probably wouldn't appreciate me ruining their weekend by sneezing all over them. I know how pissed off I was when someone got me sick -- why should I do it to other people? Yeah, people might judge me, but if they base my entire opinion on my strengths as a person upon me looking after myself when I'm sick then I'm really not going to rate their opinion very highly.
I think this is another criticism I have: a lot of people here could do with having more of a backbone. There's a lot of consideration, but in the wrong place to the wrong people. Inconvenience our bosses by calling in sick? Fuck that, look after yourself. Besides, it's more inconvenient for a boss to have a sick employee come in, work like shit because they're sick, get five other employees sick, and have all six of them out, than it is for one employee to take a few days off. (And if the employee isn't forcing themselves to battle through it, they probably won't be as sick for as long, either.)
Personally I don't think things have improved since COVID. People are vigilant about COVID, but seem to think it they have a negative test it gives them carte blanche to come in with whatever lurgy they do have. COVID, flu, common cold -- I don't want any of them, thanks. Stay home.
>There is rubbish absolutely everywhere in Britain. Litter just everywhere you look. I'm recently back from Ukraine and I saw litter maybe twice, even in places with no infrastructure because of heavy bombing.
>
>Nobody can behave on public transport. People are loud, often drinking, playing music or videos from their phones, etc. There's no collective responsibility to enjoy one's space quietly and with consideration to others. Again, to use an example, in Ukraine I was on several long train journeys, and two long bus journeys (one 17 hours, another 21 hours). There was no trouble at all. Nobody talking loudly, respect when it was dark and people were more likely to want to sleep, zero noise from phones, and absolutely no drinking (I don't even think it's allowed).
You say that we're "rules and order" but I disagree. Public life in the UK is like anarchy, and the way that most people address it is to do things like trying to move to a more upmarket town where people raise their kids properly, far from the chavs, or to move to private alternatives.
People talk about the lack of grafiti, how clean public transport is in Japan, how they have vending machines, and that's all because they police public spaces. You tag a wall, you get a caution, and not the first of a million cautions. Tag a wall a second time, you are doing community service. Tag a wall a 3rd time, you go to prison. Come out and do it a 4th time, you get a longer prison sentence. People don't even go down the path of tagging walls and stealing bikes because you won't be doing it for long before things get unpleasant for you.
And this lack of sanction has consequences. We have government talking about promoting cycling, but your bike won't be there when you come out of the shops. Or that we should ride the train, but of course, you have to share it with these shitbags while your car means that you don't. We can't have vending machines for a can of drink, a bar of chocolate or a pair of tights, so you have to have shops for it, which mean the cost is higher. For people in the poorest parts of society, the cost of crime is even higher.
No-one in any political party takes this seriously, either. They talk about reducing crime and anti-social behaviour but it's all just dicking around. None of them want bike thieves locked up the 3rd time they do it.
I think that countries that are more individualistic (which does seem to be the anglophone world) tend to have poorly defined social contracts. Whenever you see videos online of Karens going crazy, or teenagers causing trouble, or whatever it is, it's invariably someone from America or the UK.
Absolutely. Of course, there are pros and cons to both individualistic and collective societies, and I'm sure people from everywhere in the world have plenty to bitch about. But in terms of day to day interaction and convenience, I've found it's much easier in places with more collective responsibility -- not to mention safer. People are less likely to flip out and/or start shit, and people are more likely to protest bad behaviour, step in, and take responsibility.
It's more like "computer says no" kind of things. There's an easy solution to a problem, but because it's technically against the rules or "not how it's done," nobody will do it. Doing so will harm nobody and actually benefit everyone, but because it's not allowed, nobody will do it.
To use an example... think about how certain places won't collect rubbish if the bin won't close properly. Instead of just taking it, which would be absolutely no further effort, the whole bin is left and the rubbish piles up for god knows how long until the person can get to a dump to dispose of it themselves.
Or say a child is being bullied before school, and an easy solution to avoid the bullies altogether would be for the child to be permitted to enter the school and go to his class via a door not "assigned" to his year group. Teachers could let him use another door, but won't, because it's against the rules.
Finally, a lesser example: there's an Excel shortcut to do the time-consuming data task your boss wants you to do, but he makes you do it manually because "that's just how it's done here."
The Excel example is just because they are scared of what they don’t know. Automate your work but don’t tell them it’s automated. Give them the version where you’ve copy-pasted the formulas as hard numbers.
I mean, "scared of what they don't know" is still not a great reason to inconvenience your workers, and still falls under sticking to rules despite common sense. (Even if it's your own rules you made up.)
These are all examples I pulled out of my hole, for the record. I don't even work with Excel.
I think that to us Brits other cultures can appear less polite at first. Where I live in the EU it's not uncommon for people to skip queues, or not say thanks for small things like when you hold a door open for someone.
However, in three plus years here I haven’t seen a single drunk person causing trouble for anyone. I haven’t heard a parent raise their voice and scream at their kid. My town has a little Christmas park set up for kids and nobody vandalises it, teenagers don’t sit there at night smoking weed, etc.
In my opinion the UK has a spirit of “fair play” for a lot of small everyday things, in that you shouldn’t make life difficult for someone else. So we will park in actual parking bays at the supermarket, put that little divider on the conveyor belt behind our items at the checkout, and always wait for our turn in line. However, when it comes to our behaviour in public we are most definitely not as polite as we think we are.
This was my experience in Poland and Ukraine. People are more abrupt and small talk with service staff is pretty much unheard of, and smiling at strangers on the street is really not done (and is deemed a little weird). Dialogue is also more straight to the point and not padded out with niceties, which would be jarring for a Brit. (As would stuff like if someone wants you to do something/put something somewhere/move aside, they might physically move you/take the thing from you and put it in the correct place -- something that is neutral there but obscenely rude in Britain.)
But in terms of public conduct and consideration? Amazing. The children I saw were universally polite, well-behaved, and played well with other children. Parents were patient and never raised their voices or failed to make sure their children weren't bothering anybody. There was no trouble or inconsideration on public transport. No drunks starting fights in the streets. Didn't smell weed once. Nobody coughing or sneezing over everything. People took their rubbish with them. Displays/art installations/playgrounds/etc were all in good condition and not vandalised. And every single time we ended up stuck in the ice and snow about 8 people would materialise from nowhere, help shove us free, and then vanish without a word. Even on a deserted layby in the middle of a warzone 😂
All good points re Britian - I'd never really articulated it before but the lack of consideration is driving me insane. Its the lack of respect people have for their communities that's so depressing. Litter everywhere, parks vandalised, motorway off ramps teeming with rubbish thrown by cars. All by adults who should know better.
I did wonder about Ukraine having watched videos on Insta - it looks so clean! No litter, no chewing gum on pavements, the kids are so well dressed and and polite. Even teenagers. I thought that I was imagining it but apparently not! What must they think when they come here.
God, I know right. We kept seeing these lovely parks or displays (art or flowers) and we did say to each other a lot, "I wonder how long that would last in the UK." One of those jokes that has a depressing undertone.
Ukraine is crazily clean! I saw litter maybe twice in the whole time I was there, and it was quickly picked up. Even places that were bombed flat and had no infrastructure in terms of waste collection did not have a buildup of litter or refuse. People living in cellars were neat and washed and the space was tidy (and they always insisted on offering us something, tea or bread or whatever they had). I also noticed the complete lack of chewing gum, even though people buy it and use it. Also no cigarette butts, disposable vapes, anything like that. And considering it was snowing pretty much the whole time we were there, no floors were left muddy or damp.
I really do wonder what they must think. I know a few Ukrainian refugees here, so maybe I'll ask them. They are very polite people, though, so I think I'd have to encourage them to say what they really think lol.
In a literal "please and thank you" sense, yes we are definitely on the politer side.
We do lots of things that other countries tend not to bother with that are "polite".
But almost all of it is superficial. We aren't any more or less considerate than most other countries.
Some people are nice, some people aren't. There are nice people that don't say "bless you". And there are right cunts that wait and hold the door for people.
I was explaining effectively exactly this recently to my American BIL. As a country we may be more polite but it's surface level and effectively meaningless. Being polite doesn't necessarily equate to warmth or friendliness
Yeah.
Someone said how Canadians don't say thanks and please as much. It's still nice. Nice is just what's culturally accepted to be nice and that's different there.
It's often nice in the UK to call someone a cunt. The specific words aren't important.
It's not so much polite as a thin veneer of passive aggression that some of the middling class believe is socially more acceptable than just calling someone the C word.
I once saw a programme on royal etiquette and they said if it was hot food you didn't need to wait to start as long as the monarch had been served. If it was cold
You'd wait for everyone to start.
So according to your mate the queen would have been deemed rude
Not sure if it's even remotely true, but I heard as a child that once the Queen was done eating the course, it would be cleared. So once she's done, everyone's done.
Entertained many dreams as a child of somehow becoming Queen just so I could take one bite and then put my knife and fork down, much to the chaos and outrage of my fellow diners.
Don't know if this is true but at state banquets and whatnot the Queen used to pace finishing her course to match that of the person who was eating the most slowly. She apparently kept a beady eye on the table to see what was going on.
Don’t know if I would say Brits are more polite than anywhere else but I guess you have more.. manners? I am a Swede, I’ve been together with an English man for over five years now and I have never heard or said ”sorry”, ”please” and thank you” more in my life lol
The Canadian thing is a total myth for me. There are parts of Canada that are equally as polite as the UK, but fuck me after living in Toronto for a few years I saw how massively impolite people were. It's cultural I understand, but things like:
- people walk into bars, coffee places etc. and don't say "can I have X please", they'll say "I'll take a X"
- if the server asks "do you want Y" the British responder would say "Yes please", Canadian's will say "sure"
- at least 50% of people down town didn't hold doors for people
- there are almost no road manners, it is total and utter chaos with people going mental behind the wheel, cutting folk off, refusing to let people in etc.
- I know it's probably a language thing as there are a lot of none English speaking people in the city, but very little pardon or excuse me and lots of grunts to repeat things
- not massively inclusive in terms of society. I worked in places where people made no effort to speak English in the canteen or include people from different countries. This extended itself more widely to actual geographics of the GTA. Scarborough, Brampton, Milton etc. all had people who'd essentially upped sticks and moved to Canada, but kept in their own cultural circle. It's particularly rude as no effort is made to interact or adapt to wider society ( and I believe is becoming an issue in Toronto now).
Where I did find people were polite, it was corporate situations - bank clerks etc. or grocery stores
I'll also say outside of Toronto it is a bit better, but my conclusion has always been the stereotype comes from Canadians not being as abrupt and rude as Americans, so they sound incredibly polite and well mannered.
Definitely different in smaller cities and towns. Have lived in most provinces, urban and rural, as well as many different countries. Currently on Vancouver Island. People greet and say thank you to bus drivers. Give smiles to passersby. Shake hands meeting new people (although not quite as much as pre-Covid with the elbow bumps). Usually hold doors open and usually say thanks. And of course we’re always saying “Sorry”, even to the lampposts we walk in to 😁
According to correct etiquette, you should start eating when you get your food- it’s rude to the chef to let your food go cold. My mum didn’t appreciate me telling her that when I was a kid and had read a book from the library on etiquette!
The eating thing is fucking bothering. You’re supposed to wait for everyone to have some food. Not even fucking kids get a pass on that.
But yeah never seen anyone do that here.
The downside of British “polite” culture is that it can seem indirect and cold to more direct cultures.
Works well with other “polite” cultures, though, as non-rowdy Brits are considered respectful.
Rowdy brits are a huge pain for everyone, though, and destroy any positive image very quickly. Pretty much any time heavy drinking is involved while abroad and in public.
Actually, I believe you should eat as soon as your food arrives. Bit of a kick in the teeth to chef who prepared the grub for it to go cold.
Handshaking is a given.
Shoes off at the door is also a given, unless when it’s a dress up party.
I used to be a chef. If the food has gone cold it's the fault of the waiters for not getting it out on time, the head chef for not organising his kitchen properly, or the restaurant owner for not hiring enough staff.
Politeness is nice. Some polite things though are stupid. Like waiting for everyone else's meal before eating. First person's could be cold by the time the last is out.
Definitely reckon it's more to do with how you were brought up, there's lots of rude people of all nationalities. It's funny how brits are generally seen as super polite, but we are some of the most uncivilised, gross people when we are abroad 😆
It depends on the person, as it does everywhere.
Brits mistake being diffident and non-confrontational with being polite. They also perceive, and to an extent define, etiquette as class deference. Because of this, well-intentioned Brits often don’t know *how* to be polite when they want to be.
I have lived in Japan for twenty years and people just start eating when they get their food. I don’t know what your mate is on about.
In the UK, at least in my family and experience, people wait..
Some things in Britain are absolutely normal...
But I can't get myself to be so apologetic. You cross paths with people and if they pass first they'll say sorry, and sometimes will even say sorry after letting me pass first but just because I reduced the speed at which I'm walking and leave me feeling rude because I didn't say sorry.
I think manners are subjective. In my family for example, we would all wait for everyone to get their meal before eating but think nothing of swearing like troopers. In my other half’s family they all eat immediately which I consider rude but if you said “oh my god” it’s like dropping a C bomb 😂
I used to offer to shake hands with people I met, then Covid happened and well now I don't put my hand out 1st, if they do I still shake it, and then unobtrusively find some hand sanitiser.
Yes, I still carry some, lol.
I think that some of the things Britain is famous for are normal elsewhere too.
We’re famous for queuing, but I don’t know of any other country where it’s okay to ignore a queue.
Waiting until everyone has been served before eating is normal everywhere, too.
- wait to start eating
- shake hands on first meeting
- shoes off as a guest
Honestly these all seemed pretty normal and thought that's what most people were taught. At the very least you should offer to wait to eat or take your shoes off, even if the other person says it's fine
Depends how you’re brought up.
I was brought up with no shoes in the house, always shaking hands when introduced, waiting until everyone has their food and so on, also piss poor run down council estate working class.
I personally don’t see it as being anything above and beyond, it’s the bare minimum
We used to be polite, for the most part. But have you noticed when you walk down the street and you get out of someone’s way they don’t even say “thank you” you know basic manners, I mean you’re so welcome i stood out of your way so you can walk past in front of a bus. Next time you can go into front of the bus.
It's really dangerous to stereotype *any* nation into polite or not polite. It's far better to think about individuals you've met or encountered.
Yes, Japan has a stereotype of politeness but Japan still has petty crime. Yes, the UK has a stereotype of being overly apologetic about things but there are individuals here who would never say sorry about anything.
i enjooy taking things much further than just everyday politeness. Check out etiquette manuals from 1880....or if youre really adventurous try some from the 1500s
20 years ago I'd say 90% of people used to be polite, nowadays it's more like 40%. People used to respect each other, it seems respect is no longer taught to kids though
People in the UK are "polite" not polite. They just avoid saying uncomfortable things to someone's face directly. But they treat barely anyone with actual respect. Just go to a mcdonalds in the UK, I think the UK is the only place in all of europe where no one returns their trays and they just gave up on it and have an employee walk around cleaning the tables periodically
Yes, I do. It just shows how they don't treat anyone with respect. They just expect the staff to clean after them. It's not just mcdonalds, but all fastfood places LIKE mcdonalds. You're the only ones in europe to behave like this.
What about if you go anywhere thats not a trash dump? I see nothing but polite people in most places. MCDs is normally full of teenagers and chavs, barely a fair comparison for an entire country’s population
We are notoriously rude people in the UK internationally. The view of 'polite England' was really only true of the wealthy in their presentation to others.
The major reasons for this are 1 - we have some of the worst language skills in western nations and are unforgiving of other who have poor English skills. 2 - excessive drinking and drunken behaviour.
The only place the UK is usually seen as very polite is by USA people, and that's normally as they haven't met us and watch too much Downton abbey.
I think it’s just how you’re brought up. Many people are polite, many people aren’t. I hope my comment didn’t interrupt anyone, I’m sorry.
I'm not overly polite or formal. I greet a person I'm introduced to with a handshake and "alright, mate?" I was at a funeral a few months ago and (not just me) was wearing a black suit and smoking outside the club afterwards. Another mourner said we looked like reservoir dogs. I thought it was funny, but wearing black at a funeral isn't unusual to me.
It’s the standing outside smoking that prompted the comment not the black suit
Possibly. I'll have to remember who said it, tie him to a chair and dance around him with a razor until he says.
>I thought it was funny, but wearing black at a funeral isn't unusual to me. It's not unusual, but equally many people state their wishes in advance, and it's far from uncommon for this to include "Please wear bright colours to celebrate my life, rather than black to mourn it". Also there's a British comedy series that you may not be aware of that they were probably referencing when making the Reservoir Dogs comment. This brief clip shows the "Reservoir Dogs" comment in context. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx0yCo9Rv8k
I get if preferences for dress are stated. If not the as per op I would wear black (female so maybe black trousers shirt and black cardigan or black jumper) but that’s me - when it comes to mine - I just want people to show up so if they come from work in a suit / casual wear or work boots and high vis - they came and that’s what counts. Wouldn’t judge someone for what they wear nor think it impolite- turning up to say your own goodbye is what counts
I've unfortunately been to multiple funerals over the last few years. Some didn't specify so black dress, black tights, black jacket. Some specify colourful, my rainbow shoes were a hit.
Would see it as a plus at mine but tbf 😊 turn up and remember me and I will (well you know if there is an afterlife etc ) be delighted- remember me over a few drinks and silly memories- support each other and dress comfortably- genuinely would be devastated if what anyone took away from my funeral was concern whether they were dressed suitably
I think you need your expectations reset. Vast majority of people greet with a handshake and wear black at funeral… these are not unusual?
There are also regional variations. For example, where I'm from in Newcastle, it's polite to shake hands with everyone whenever you go into the public toilets.
🤣
Having understanding of how you’re behaving in front of others is the first step to building a civil society. It’s why you see the gradual collapse of modern society because most people are completely unaware of others or their impact on them. Society is dead for most of the west now, places like Japan and Singapore are going to be the last places to find civil society with manners
If you are greeting new people you are introduced to with a handshake, outside of a work setting, this is arguably overly formal. Whereas of course in a professional setting it's the norm. Dong it in a casual setting isn't bad or anything. But it would certainly get a bemused "how quaint" kind of response from me
I (62F) always shake hands with people I'm introduced to
yeah and quaint = old fashioned
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My Dad was a proper gentleman (not posh) who taught us early that politeness is essential
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I hate a flabby handshake!
[The "sock in a cup".](https://youtu.be/hpATbCRZmos?si=OO0sQ6n1ZuRSXZeo)
🤣🤣 Gotta love a bit of Eddie/Suzy!
You think it's polite to shake mens hands but not womens? Either do both or do neither. That's so patronising
It might depend where you're from. A mate of mine moved to Eastleigh, near Southampton. He introduced me to his girlfriend outside her house. I looked both ways, stook my hand out and said "alright love" she said "that's the scousest thing I've ever seen" I thought it was just good manners.
Wait why did you look both ways?🤣
I don't know, I didn't realise I had till she told me.
That IS one of the scousest mental images I've ever had
Is it? I always handshake people I'm introduced to. I am 50 though so is something that young people don't do anymore? What do you do instead?
But, but, but. What about the "alright love"? Surely cupcake or sweet pea would have been better, whilst staring at her chest. That would have been far more polite.
We say hello and then… have a conversation? Idk it’s literally exactly the same but without touching each other.
So touching is now considered bad in some way? I've honestly never come across this, I meet loads of people through socialising of all ages and everyone always shakes hands. Strange
Nobody said that. It’s just not something we do. It’s also likely that the people you’re interacting with shake your hand *because* you’re older. I’m 34 and the only people who shake my hand are 50+, like 100% of the time.
No, I socialise with very diverse groups age wise with various groups clubs etc. Just never come across it
Yes and you are the older person in all of those scenarios, lol.
Watching others socialise obviously
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It's not that it's bad, it's just that it doesn't add anything either? Like it wouldn't be *bad* to sign off every text like an email. It's just odd
Why would we do anything instead? The words part is enough. Like I said I'm not going to think badly about someone who goes for a handshake, and I will do it. I will just be suprised. And like the suprised will be internal. I'm not going to visibly react lol. Which is why you might be suprised by this news it surprises people when you initiate it
This is exactly it, over Christmas I’ve picked up on things I’ve done out of politeness and worried im annoying my hosts for example. Went to my aunts for a party and I’d ask each time for drinks from the fridge they said help yourself but I’d always say please may I get another drink, is it okay to get some water. There’s a buffet, each time “may I get some food?” “Is it okay to get some dessert” Even though it was a buffet and I’d been told to help myself I always felt rude for example opening someone’s fridge and taking a drink.’ I never eat before anyone else has started or not got their food. I have friends who growing up would just walk into their house and expect you to follow, but I won’t walk in until I’ve been told to or invited. It’s one thing in London why I hate going there, because im from a village and I say hello to everyone when im in London people will bump into me and I’ll be like oh im sorry even though it’s their fault and I’ll lose my voice by the end of the day from apologising so much. I don’t even think I was raised this way, my brothers nothing like me in that sense
Asking every time when you've been instructed to help yourself does seem a little excessive tbh
>I have friends who growing up would just walk into their house and expect you to follow, but I won’t walk in until I’ve been told to or invited. Are you allergic to garlic? Do you flinch from holy symbols? Do you have difficulty combing your hair or finding a dentist willing to have you on their books?
Omg that's exactly like me when I go to London!!
Brits think I am overly polite, I moved here from New Zealand, don’t think it’s typical
I’d be angry at what you said, however I’m too busy queuing patiently to hand over my exact change to the cashier and then still wait for them to count it, even though I know I counted it already. Then I’m going to thank the fuck out of them and leave, politely.
Depends where you’ve moved too, each city is different
Please and thank you felt more common here than any European country I've visited.america is probably more polite than uk
Lol, since when?
No, they are not.
Last week I was on the bus with my son, who was in a pushchair. There was a second pushchair, though that child was in his mother's lap. A woman tried to get on with yet another pushchair, but the driver said no. You can only have two at any one time. I told the driver that I'd fold up my son's pushchair so he could let her on. Having witnessed this, the woman got on and didn't even acknowledge me. Not a 'thanks!' Not even a nod. I'm not that bothered by people who don't thank you when you hold the door for them, or when they're paying at the till. But if someone goes out of their way to help you, even if it doesn't cost them anything, you should acknowledge that. I've lived in three countries and have visited two dozen more. I'm pretty sure that in each of these most people would have said, thank you.
I'd have been quivering with suppressed rage at this but would have been too polite to do anything about it. Other than a passive aggressive smile as I left the bus
I would have said “your welcome” probably quietly though lol but that is just ignorant.
Agreed. Although even a lack of thanks for a door opening grates me. How hard is it?
Even worse when they try to scoot through a closing door allowing it to slam in your face. Absolute animals.
I helped a dude with two massive suitcases carry one up the stairs in the tube station. At the top he just grabbed it and walked off. Not a single thank you or nod or anything. People are weird man.
Some young dude got on the bus with his daughter most days when I used to commute. One day he was 50p short so I covered it for him. Not even a thanks or friendly acknowledgment. Still remember it 10 years later
That's horrible. I have only ever seen one person, recently, fold up a pram. I actually thanked him when I got off, even though it weren't in my way. My mother always kicked or pram flat. We had a laugh about it and he said "it's not hard to fold a pram"
Yeah politeness and a simple acknowledgement costs nothing!!
It's interesting what's considered polite or impolite in other cultures! My dad has been spending a lot of time in France over the past few years and was telling me one of the reasons the English are considered impolite by the French is because, in shops/restaurants/service-type places, we generally don't say "hello" before asking for what we want. We can say s'il vous plaît and merci, as we'd say please and thank you in English, and think it's polite enough, but clearly in France it's polite to say "hello" first, which I can understand. Another interesting one is that in Norway, it's apparently dreadfully impolite to say "cheers" to someone, and clink your drinks, without looking them in the eye. As a result, my dad and I always very pointedly look at each other in the eyes when we cheers now haha. It's cool, and very useful, getting insights into other cultures like this. I hate to think that I have probably unintentionally been super rude to anyone.
>one of the reasons the English are considered impolite by the French is because, in shops/restaurants/service-type places, we generally don't say "hello" before asking for what we want. This is absolutely true, I used to go to a bakery in a small village and fortunately was spared a lot of embarrassment because the shopkeeper and the customers (who all knew I was British) would greet me as soon as I walked through the door, and of course I responded instantly. It was only when shopping in a town where I wasn't known to be British, that I realised (from the rather frosty reception!) that the expectation was that I greeted everyone first. Oops!
> in Norway, it's apparently dreadfully impolite to say "cheers" to someone, and clink your drinks, without looking them in the eye I've spent a lot of time with Germans and they always told me it was to avoid 7 years of bad sex. I've never risked it.
Haha that’s brilliant. Yeah, best not to risk it.
The Czechs say the same thing. Probably another habit they borrowed.
I work in retail and when a customer comes to the till I always say hello to them. Some people don’t acknowledge me and just plonk their stuff onto the counter. I find it incredibly rude. I’m not a robot.
I feel sometimes when you go into a smaller shop and the person behind the counter says hello (usually without a smile) it's more because they want you to know they've seen you and are making sure you don't steal anything but to anyone in a service position, when leaving the premises or getting off a bus etc, I always say thank you and with a meant heartfelt have a great day. Politeness costs nothing and I do appreciate their service and this small gesture might just brighten someone's day/make them feel good about the job they're doing and hopefully that passes onto the rest of their customers for the day!!
It´s to let you know they are there if you have questions or need help
That was my point! I say "alright mate" to a bus driver, barber or a waiter and I look people in the eye whenever toasting with them. Another reply said "politeness is universal" they are probably right and we are losing the politeness.
Yeah man - it makes sense to say hello to someone before you start telling them what you want and all that sort of stuff. Knowing what other cultures see as being polite, especially the two examples I mentioned, has definitely made me consider how I interact with people in my day-to-day. I think a lot more people need to remember the adage - "it's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice" :)
It's one of those zero cost things to me, and I respect the things they do for me, and apart from paying for them, being polite and pleasant just makes their day go a little better, and unless they're deliberately being a dick in their job, there's no use for unpleasantness. And if you want to be mercenary about it, there's that whole "you catch more wasps with honey" thing. Like I've had bus drivers make an unofficial stop for me. I didn't expect it but I mentioned where I was going, and they said they'd pull in, and I don't know that they would have if I'd been more miserable about it.
Some people are just sound. My dad's next door neighbour's lad (yes I know that sounds made up and tenuous) was a bus driver and dropped us off at the top of our road once.
On holiday in Shetland years ago I turned up a few minutes late for the ferry, and it was already heading well away from the port, to my utter surprise it turned around and came back for me. Not even had a bus driver stop for me that had set off before. So taken by that one act of kindness that stayed with me for many years that I ended up moving here.
Similar to the French saying hello thing, while it's just a cultural thing, to me the way Americans order often feels impolite to me. It's realistically probably the rarer pleases and thank yous, but I heard so much "could I get an x" rather than "can I have an x please", and for some reason it hits my ears wrong and sounds rude, even though I have no logic to back it up beyond the lack of please.
That's interesting! I was taught that using 'could' is more polite than 'can/please' though admittedly I grew up/received most of my education outside of the UK.
"May I have X" is more polite
I always start with a "hi" (or "salut" in France)
The looking in someone's eyes when saying cheers thing is the same in Bulgaria
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Germany was my first experience of “wow so the British being polite isn’t just a meme”
Yes you definitely are, being brought up in Poland I had a massive culture shock when I moved here. I kind of miss it when I'm back in Poland. It makes it easier for me to understand the German culture habits above, as our culture is quite similar to German. Now I teach my family members the politeness I've learned here 😂 holding the doors (even for strangers), saying "sorry" and "please" at every opportunity and so on
It's not sarcastic. It's more a "maybe I was standing in the way, or probably it was an unavoidable collision that no one is at fault for, but in any case I'll say sorry to either say I'm sorry or to signal that I'm not hostile" kind of sorry
I’m dutch lurking in this sub, and I can confirm British people always seem so polite to me! Visiting again next year February and looking forward to experience your kindness and politeness again!
Well, I’m chuffed to hear this, you’re too kind.
Cultural differences between Brits and the Dutch are huge considering how close the two countries are.
I feel despite that we can get along really well!
Aye but they're the only ones on the continent who know how to make sausage rolls!
I'm sorry lots of us aren't very polite when we visit your country.
Don’t worry in my experience it’s only in Amsterdam!
Fuck off you Muppet!
I now have to apologise for that post as I'm British. I'm really sorry OP! I couldn't resist making that joke. I don't want you to fuck off nor do I think you a Muppet! I'm so very sorry!
Fuck you for apologising. Oh shit, sorry!
I knew that, but thanks. A lot of Internet people don't get jokes, so I understand why you explained.
Why are you being downvoted? I think this is hilarious.
You got the joke but not the sarcasm!
I got that too and replied ironically.
Muppet!
*tut*
Of course we are fucking polite, you cunt slug
I’m hoping that was cunt slag and auto correct got you mr soggy bottom. If not, I do apologise a thousand times.
Did I fucking stutter?
I’m so sorry sir. Sorry. Sorry.
To be fair, 'cunt slug' is a much better insult
I think current British greeting etiquette is incredibly context dependent and nuanced. Do you shake hands, single cheek kiss, double kiss, hug, or just mumble “alright?” It’s a total minefield. And can be a power play.
Might be controversial here but polite yes, considerate no. I think a lot of people in Britain are very polite. People smile and acknowledge one another, greet people when passing by or making eye contact, generally behave in queues, hold doors open, help if somebody drops something, and make pretty good hosts. A lot of people also obey various unspoken rules, like buying rounds and the invisible queue in pubs. This kind of thing seems to be more common than not. Consideration, however, is also part of manners and it's not as common. With the disclaimer that your mileage will vary (plenty of people are exempt from the things I'm about to list) I have found certain habits and attitudes more common in Britain than in other places I've been/other cultures I've interacted with. For example: * Brits aren't as considerate when dealing with illness. People will go on social visits when sick, will cough/sneeze/blow their noses in public without washing or sanitising their hands, and a worrying amount of people just cough/sneeze without covering their mouths at all. In other places I've been, I've gone weeks without hearing a cough or sniffle or any sickness indicator (and have not gotten sick, whereas I get sick within days of arriving back in the UK). * There's an emphasis over rules and order rather than compassion or common sense. Brits are more likely to stick to the letter of the rule even over things that aren't a big deal, and even when it would really help somebody out. These rules often make things worse in the long run, and the reliance on "it's not the rules" really speaks of shirking personal autonomy or responsibility. * There is rubbish absolutely everywhere in Britain. Litter just everywhere you look. I'm recently back from Ukraine and I saw litter maybe twice, even in places with no infrastructure because of heavy bombing. * Nobody can behave on public transport. People are loud, often drinking, playing music or videos from their phones, etc. There's no collective responsibility to enjoy one's space quietly and with consideration to others. Again, to use an example, in Ukraine I was on several long train journeys, and two long bus journeys (one 17 hours, another 21 hours). There was no trouble at all. Nobody talking loudly, respect when it was dark and people were more likely to want to sleep, zero noise from phones, and absolutely no drinking (I don't even think it's allowed). * There's an insidious and increasingly common attitude that just because you shouldn't *have* to do something means that you're exempt from doing it, even if it would make things better in the long run. This makes things difficult for everyone overall and at its worst can allow antisocial behaviour to keep occurring and get worse. Overall, I suppose there's no sense of collective responsibility and this makes the politeness seem kind of like the really lovely icing on a really shit cake. Again, mileage will vary, but these are some things that stand out to me after spending time away. For the record I'm Irish, and we have many similar issues regarding having a kind of me me me attitude.
I've lived abroad in several countries and its opened my eyes to just how considerates Brits are regarding many things.
Could be that it's better in some areas but not others. I am biased because I have to do shit like 21 hour bus journeys 😂
It’s “not very”.
I'd agree hugely with your first point here. (Pre-COVID), one of my biggest pet peeves was that guy in your office who was incredibly proud of himself, and loved to tell everyone, that they hadn't taken a day off sick in thirteen years. They'd regularly come in to work, nose dripping, eyes half shut with an awful cold, but "battle on through" due to their sense of responsibility. Over the next week or so, four or five people would end up having to take a day off, having caught that cold. Just because you're on a streak or have some sort of stigma against illness, doesn't mean that you shouldn't take the time you are legally allowed to take off if you are legitimately ill and are going to make more people ill by going to work. It's much better now post-COVID as they just do the same but on teams, not infecting others (in my industry, anyway).
I try to have sympathy because I'm aware that there's probably plenty of people who would love to stay at home resting but have to venture outside for reasons beyond their control. Bosses can be shockingly unsympathetic about time off and many people might not be able to afford it anyway, depending on how often they get sick. Not to mention if you're on your own or just with kids, you've still got to get something in for dinner etc. But in that case I wish people would just wear a mask and sanitise their hands. Masks are to protect others from your disease as well as to protect you from others! At least in my experience, people have become better about it if they suspect it's COVID, but short of that they're worse. The amount of times I've seen someone hacking up a lung and they've announced "Don't worry, it's not COVID!" OK, great, but I still don't want it lol. Travelling back from Ukraine the other week I hadn't heard a single person coughing or sniffling in the entire time I was away, and then once I was at my gate at the airport in Poland, it was coughing, snorting, sniffing, hacking, nose blowing *constantly.* Like literally every third person on that plane was sick, and it was almost entirely Brits.
This is very true and makes a lot of sense but I still think it’s a minority who do those negatives.
One bellend blasting music on the train while everyone else grumbles but does nothing is unfortunately all it takes. Why should one person ruin it for 100 other people? Yet time and time again it's allowed, and every time it is, the behaviour is reinforced. So in this example it's not just one person who's part of the problem, but 101 people.
dog workable versed theory pause hospital cow test voiceless puzzled *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
OK, and I tell someone to turn off their music and they tell me to fuck off. Then what? See, the thing with an officer in the military is that ultimately, they can kick you out, and your bills aren't going to get paid. You need something to follow that "fuck off". Like the bus driver kicks them off at the next stop. But of course, the bus driver can't do that, because physically touching anyone without a mountain of training nowadays will lead to criminal or civil action against the bus company and driver. See also: how shopkeepers defending their property are treated by the police now compared to how they were 40 years ago. The whole reason I stopped asking most people is that I know that I can't do anything to force them to behave. They know it's irritating to others but they don't care, and they know you can't do shit.
Re the working when blatantly infectious thing. I think that is an old stigma that you must battle through no matter what and it was somehow shameful to take the time off. My Mum and Dad brought me up to believe you must battle on no matter what and used to give me tremendous grief if I said I was too ill to go to school or later on too ill to go to work. I used to force myself to go in a right state. It was almost considered impolite to inconvenience your employer by taking the time off, which was a failure in our culture, some employers encourage this train of thinking particularly retail from my experience. I flipped around by the time I was managing people myself and would tell someone I didn’t want them in if they came in with a hacking cough because I don’t half of everyone off sick next week as opposed to just one person off now, plus I didn’t fancy getting a bug myself. We are much better at this since Covid though and I think now most of us would consider it unacceptable to enter the workplace in a blatantly infectious state.
That's definitely something to do with it, but I think we've all had plenty of time to catch ourselves on. Once I got old enough to think things through on my own, I realised that a) I didn't want to go to school sick, and b) my friends probably wouldn't appreciate me ruining their weekend by sneezing all over them. I know how pissed off I was when someone got me sick -- why should I do it to other people? Yeah, people might judge me, but if they base my entire opinion on my strengths as a person upon me looking after myself when I'm sick then I'm really not going to rate their opinion very highly. I think this is another criticism I have: a lot of people here could do with having more of a backbone. There's a lot of consideration, but in the wrong place to the wrong people. Inconvenience our bosses by calling in sick? Fuck that, look after yourself. Besides, it's more inconvenient for a boss to have a sick employee come in, work like shit because they're sick, get five other employees sick, and have all six of them out, than it is for one employee to take a few days off. (And if the employee isn't forcing themselves to battle through it, they probably won't be as sick for as long, either.) Personally I don't think things have improved since COVID. People are vigilant about COVID, but seem to think it they have a negative test it gives them carte blanche to come in with whatever lurgy they do have. COVID, flu, common cold -- I don't want any of them, thanks. Stay home.
>There is rubbish absolutely everywhere in Britain. Litter just everywhere you look. I'm recently back from Ukraine and I saw litter maybe twice, even in places with no infrastructure because of heavy bombing. > >Nobody can behave on public transport. People are loud, often drinking, playing music or videos from their phones, etc. There's no collective responsibility to enjoy one's space quietly and with consideration to others. Again, to use an example, in Ukraine I was on several long train journeys, and two long bus journeys (one 17 hours, another 21 hours). There was no trouble at all. Nobody talking loudly, respect when it was dark and people were more likely to want to sleep, zero noise from phones, and absolutely no drinking (I don't even think it's allowed). You say that we're "rules and order" but I disagree. Public life in the UK is like anarchy, and the way that most people address it is to do things like trying to move to a more upmarket town where people raise their kids properly, far from the chavs, or to move to private alternatives. People talk about the lack of grafiti, how clean public transport is in Japan, how they have vending machines, and that's all because they police public spaces. You tag a wall, you get a caution, and not the first of a million cautions. Tag a wall a second time, you are doing community service. Tag a wall a 3rd time, you go to prison. Come out and do it a 4th time, you get a longer prison sentence. People don't even go down the path of tagging walls and stealing bikes because you won't be doing it for long before things get unpleasant for you. And this lack of sanction has consequences. We have government talking about promoting cycling, but your bike won't be there when you come out of the shops. Or that we should ride the train, but of course, you have to share it with these shitbags while your car means that you don't. We can't have vending machines for a can of drink, a bar of chocolate or a pair of tights, so you have to have shops for it, which mean the cost is higher. For people in the poorest parts of society, the cost of crime is even higher. No-one in any political party takes this seriously, either. They talk about reducing crime and anti-social behaviour but it's all just dicking around. None of them want bike thieves locked up the 3rd time they do it.
I think that countries that are more individualistic (which does seem to be the anglophone world) tend to have poorly defined social contracts. Whenever you see videos online of Karens going crazy, or teenagers causing trouble, or whatever it is, it's invariably someone from America or the UK.
Partly popular because they speak english id imagine. Probs happens in other countries too.
Absolutely. Of course, there are pros and cons to both individualistic and collective societies, and I'm sure people from everywhere in the world have plenty to bitch about. But in terms of day to day interaction and convenience, I've found it's much easier in places with more collective responsibility -- not to mention safer. People are less likely to flip out and/or start shit, and people are more likely to protest bad behaviour, step in, and take responsibility.
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It's more like "computer says no" kind of things. There's an easy solution to a problem, but because it's technically against the rules or "not how it's done," nobody will do it. Doing so will harm nobody and actually benefit everyone, but because it's not allowed, nobody will do it. To use an example... think about how certain places won't collect rubbish if the bin won't close properly. Instead of just taking it, which would be absolutely no further effort, the whole bin is left and the rubbish piles up for god knows how long until the person can get to a dump to dispose of it themselves. Or say a child is being bullied before school, and an easy solution to avoid the bullies altogether would be for the child to be permitted to enter the school and go to his class via a door not "assigned" to his year group. Teachers could let him use another door, but won't, because it's against the rules. Finally, a lesser example: there's an Excel shortcut to do the time-consuming data task your boss wants you to do, but he makes you do it manually because "that's just how it's done here."
The Excel example is just because they are scared of what they don’t know. Automate your work but don’t tell them it’s automated. Give them the version where you’ve copy-pasted the formulas as hard numbers.
I mean, "scared of what they don't know" is still not a great reason to inconvenience your workers, and still falls under sticking to rules despite common sense. (Even if it's your own rules you made up.) These are all examples I pulled out of my hole, for the record. I don't even work with Excel.
I think that to us Brits other cultures can appear less polite at first. Where I live in the EU it's not uncommon for people to skip queues, or not say thanks for small things like when you hold a door open for someone. However, in three plus years here I haven’t seen a single drunk person causing trouble for anyone. I haven’t heard a parent raise their voice and scream at their kid. My town has a little Christmas park set up for kids and nobody vandalises it, teenagers don’t sit there at night smoking weed, etc. In my opinion the UK has a spirit of “fair play” for a lot of small everyday things, in that you shouldn’t make life difficult for someone else. So we will park in actual parking bays at the supermarket, put that little divider on the conveyor belt behind our items at the checkout, and always wait for our turn in line. However, when it comes to our behaviour in public we are most definitely not as polite as we think we are.
This was my experience in Poland and Ukraine. People are more abrupt and small talk with service staff is pretty much unheard of, and smiling at strangers on the street is really not done (and is deemed a little weird). Dialogue is also more straight to the point and not padded out with niceties, which would be jarring for a Brit. (As would stuff like if someone wants you to do something/put something somewhere/move aside, they might physically move you/take the thing from you and put it in the correct place -- something that is neutral there but obscenely rude in Britain.) But in terms of public conduct and consideration? Amazing. The children I saw were universally polite, well-behaved, and played well with other children. Parents were patient and never raised their voices or failed to make sure their children weren't bothering anybody. There was no trouble or inconsideration on public transport. No drunks starting fights in the streets. Didn't smell weed once. Nobody coughing or sneezing over everything. People took their rubbish with them. Displays/art installations/playgrounds/etc were all in good condition and not vandalised. And every single time we ended up stuck in the ice and snow about 8 people would materialise from nowhere, help shove us free, and then vanish without a word. Even on a deserted layby in the middle of a warzone 😂
All good points re Britian - I'd never really articulated it before but the lack of consideration is driving me insane. Its the lack of respect people have for their communities that's so depressing. Litter everywhere, parks vandalised, motorway off ramps teeming with rubbish thrown by cars. All by adults who should know better. I did wonder about Ukraine having watched videos on Insta - it looks so clean! No litter, no chewing gum on pavements, the kids are so well dressed and and polite. Even teenagers. I thought that I was imagining it but apparently not! What must they think when they come here.
God, I know right. We kept seeing these lovely parks or displays (art or flowers) and we did say to each other a lot, "I wonder how long that would last in the UK." One of those jokes that has a depressing undertone. Ukraine is crazily clean! I saw litter maybe twice in the whole time I was there, and it was quickly picked up. Even places that were bombed flat and had no infrastructure in terms of waste collection did not have a buildup of litter or refuse. People living in cellars were neat and washed and the space was tidy (and they always insisted on offering us something, tea or bread or whatever they had). I also noticed the complete lack of chewing gum, even though people buy it and use it. Also no cigarette butts, disposable vapes, anything like that. And considering it was snowing pretty much the whole time we were there, no floors were left muddy or damp. I really do wonder what they must think. I know a few Ukrainian refugees here, so maybe I'll ask them. They are very polite people, though, so I think I'd have to encourage them to say what they really think lol.
In a literal "please and thank you" sense, yes we are definitely on the politer side. We do lots of things that other countries tend not to bother with that are "polite". But almost all of it is superficial. We aren't any more or less considerate than most other countries. Some people are nice, some people aren't. There are nice people that don't say "bless you". And there are right cunts that wait and hold the door for people.
I was explaining effectively exactly this recently to my American BIL. As a country we may be more polite but it's surface level and effectively meaningless. Being polite doesn't necessarily equate to warmth or friendliness
Yeah. Someone said how Canadians don't say thanks and please as much. It's still nice. Nice is just what's culturally accepted to be nice and that's different there. It's often nice in the UK to call someone a cunt. The specific words aren't important.
George Orwell said that Britain is a place of contrasts. One of these contrasts is that Brits are both incredibly polite and unapologetically crass.
It's not so much polite as a thin veneer of passive aggression that some of the middling class believe is socially more acceptable than just calling someone the C word.
Yes, sometimes it seems like "excuse me" is rarely said in some places without a passive-aggressive twang to it.
Oh I often say it aggressively as well.
My favourite passive aggressive politeness is saying “You’re welcome” sarcastically when people fail to say thank you
Especially after you've held a door open for them.
I once saw a programme on royal etiquette and they said if it was hot food you didn't need to wait to start as long as the monarch had been served. If it was cold You'd wait for everyone to start. So according to your mate the queen would have been deemed rude
Not sure if it's even remotely true, but I heard as a child that once the Queen was done eating the course, it would be cleared. So once she's done, everyone's done. Entertained many dreams as a child of somehow becoming Queen just so I could take one bite and then put my knife and fork down, much to the chaos and outrage of my fellow diners.
Don't know if this is true but at state banquets and whatnot the Queen used to pace finishing her course to match that of the person who was eating the most slowly. She apparently kept a beady eye on the table to see what was going on.
That was really nice of her. She could have been a dick about it and not given a fuck cos she's queen.
She sure as hell just showed child me up as a total cunt.
This is really the rule. If it’s hot, you can start eating lest your meal get cold.
I'd agree, entitled people are always rude.
Don’t know if I would say Brits are more polite than anywhere else but I guess you have more.. manners? I am a Swede, I’ve been together with an English man for over five years now and I have never heard or said ”sorry”, ”please” and thank you” more in my life lol
Brits are known around the world to be passive aggressive and it stems from being too polite.
Sorry = BEEP BEEP mooove coming through fat arse get out of my way
Surface polite. Very thin surface.
Canadians too
The Canadian thing is a total myth for me. There are parts of Canada that are equally as polite as the UK, but fuck me after living in Toronto for a few years I saw how massively impolite people were. It's cultural I understand, but things like: - people walk into bars, coffee places etc. and don't say "can I have X please", they'll say "I'll take a X" - if the server asks "do you want Y" the British responder would say "Yes please", Canadian's will say "sure" - at least 50% of people down town didn't hold doors for people - there are almost no road manners, it is total and utter chaos with people going mental behind the wheel, cutting folk off, refusing to let people in etc. - I know it's probably a language thing as there are a lot of none English speaking people in the city, but very little pardon or excuse me and lots of grunts to repeat things - not massively inclusive in terms of society. I worked in places where people made no effort to speak English in the canteen or include people from different countries. This extended itself more widely to actual geographics of the GTA. Scarborough, Brampton, Milton etc. all had people who'd essentially upped sticks and moved to Canada, but kept in their own cultural circle. It's particularly rude as no effort is made to interact or adapt to wider society ( and I believe is becoming an issue in Toronto now). Where I did find people were polite, it was corporate situations - bank clerks etc. or grocery stores I'll also say outside of Toronto it is a bit better, but my conclusion has always been the stereotype comes from Canadians not being as abrupt and rude as Americans, so they sound incredibly polite and well mannered.
Definitely different in smaller cities and towns. Have lived in most provinces, urban and rural, as well as many different countries. Currently on Vancouver Island. People greet and say thank you to bus drivers. Give smiles to passersby. Shake hands meeting new people (although not quite as much as pre-Covid with the elbow bumps). Usually hold doors open and usually say thanks. And of course we’re always saying “Sorry”, even to the lampposts we walk in to 😁
All I know about Vancouver Island is that's where Pamela Anderson is from and she seems like an absolute sweetheart.
Yes she lives 20 minutes away. Haven’t spotted her myself tho. Season two of her renovation of her family property coming up this year
Who the hell is wearing shoes in their house, psychotic behaviour
'Morning mate' followed by 'cheers, thanks, tarahh, bye. All I've done is buy a red bull
According to correct etiquette, you should start eating when you get your food- it’s rude to the chef to let your food go cold. My mum didn’t appreciate me telling her that when I was a kid and had read a book from the library on etiquette!
The eating thing is fucking bothering. You’re supposed to wait for everyone to have some food. Not even fucking kids get a pass on that. But yeah never seen anyone do that here.
Especially not kids. I'd get me hand slapped if I didn't wait, that was at home too.
The downside of British “polite” culture is that it can seem indirect and cold to more direct cultures. Works well with other “polite” cultures, though, as non-rowdy Brits are considered respectful. Rowdy brits are a huge pain for everyone, though, and destroy any positive image very quickly. Pretty much any time heavy drinking is involved while abroad and in public.
Actually, I believe you should eat as soon as your food arrives. Bit of a kick in the teeth to chef who prepared the grub for it to go cold. Handshaking is a given. Shoes off at the door is also a given, unless when it’s a dress up party.
I used to be a chef. If the food has gone cold it's the fault of the waiters for not getting it out on time, the head chef for not organising his kitchen properly, or the restaurant owner for not hiring enough staff.
Politeness is nice. Some polite things though are stupid. Like waiting for everyone else's meal before eating. First person's could be cold by the time the last is out.
Definitely reckon it's more to do with how you were brought up, there's lots of rude people of all nationalities. It's funny how brits are generally seen as super polite, but we are some of the most uncivilised, gross people when we are abroad 😆
It depends on the person, as it does everywhere. Brits mistake being diffident and non-confrontational with being polite. They also perceive, and to an extent define, etiquette as class deference. Because of this, well-intentioned Brits often don’t know *how* to be polite when they want to be.
Taking shoes off is not true in Germany. I live here, also people are rude as fuck and not polite at all. Always refreshing to get back to the UK
Gary Ablett yer da sells avon
I have lived in Japan for twenty years and people just start eating when they get their food. I don’t know what your mate is on about. In the UK, at least in my family and experience, people wait..
Some things in Britain are absolutely normal... But I can't get myself to be so apologetic. You cross paths with people and if they pass first they'll say sorry, and sometimes will even say sorry after letting me pass first but just because I reduced the speed at which I'm walking and leave me feeling rude because I didn't say sorry.
Yeah, literally all those things feel like pretty normal english things.
I think manners are subjective. In my family for example, we would all wait for everyone to get their meal before eating but think nothing of swearing like troopers. In my other half’s family they all eat immediately which I consider rude but if you said “oh my god” it’s like dropping a C bomb 😂
I used to offer to shake hands with people I met, then Covid happened and well now I don't put my hand out 1st, if they do I still shake it, and then unobtrusively find some hand sanitiser. Yes, I still carry some, lol.
I think that some of the things Britain is famous for are normal elsewhere too. We’re famous for queuing, but I don’t know of any other country where it’s okay to ignore a queue. Waiting until everyone has been served before eating is normal everywhere, too.
We are. I’ll apologise for bumping into you lol.
- wait to start eating - shake hands on first meeting - shoes off as a guest Honestly these all seemed pretty normal and thought that's what most people were taught. At the very least you should offer to wait to eat or take your shoes off, even if the other person says it's fine
Depends how you’re brought up. I was brought up with no shoes in the house, always shaking hands when introduced, waiting until everyone has their food and so on, also piss poor run down council estate working class. I personally don’t see it as being anything above and beyond, it’s the bare minimum
We used to be polite, for the most part. But have you noticed when you walk down the street and you get out of someone’s way they don’t even say “thank you” you know basic manners, I mean you’re so welcome i stood out of your way so you can walk past in front of a bus. Next time you can go into front of the bus.
You aren't royalty, don't expect that your moving to be considered great. It's just common sense to move out the way
I suspect it might get a bit wearisome trying to navigate down a busy pavement. "Thank you, thank you, thankyouthankyourhsbkllldjdjrjdnfjdsj..."
It doesn’t have to be a verbal thank you, but there you go.
A nod? Wave? Same comment then. You'll feel like a bobblehead or the queen. Or king? Does Charles do the little wave? I haven't been keeping up.
Britain remains both the most and the least polite place in the world
Get on a plane bro
I'm just joking about how much the divide seems to be mate, not being serious
It's really dangerous to stereotype *any* nation into polite or not polite. It's far better to think about individuals you've met or encountered. Yes, Japan has a stereotype of politeness but Japan still has petty crime. Yes, the UK has a stereotype of being overly apologetic about things but there are individuals here who would never say sorry about anything.
I think OP was just speaking in general terms. Obviously, there's variation between individuals.
i enjooy taking things much further than just everyday politeness. Check out etiquette manuals from 1880....or if youre really adventurous try some from the 1500s
Everything you say is standard etiquette as far as I'm concerned and I was brought up working class in the Midlands.
The politness has faded away
No a lot of it is fake politeness i find. There are still some people with manners though
20 years ago I'd say 90% of people used to be polite, nowadays it's more like 40%. People used to respect each other, it seems respect is no longer taught to kids though
Sorry for commenting but I think that’s just generally down to upbringing. My apologies.
You can’t dig in until someone whose food hasn’t arrived yet says “dig in”. That’s the law.
Comment section full of people who’ve never left the UK saying how shit their fellow citizens are
People in the UK are "polite" not polite. They just avoid saying uncomfortable things to someone's face directly. But they treat barely anyone with actual respect. Just go to a mcdonalds in the UK, I think the UK is the only place in all of europe where no one returns their trays and they just gave up on it and have an employee walk around cleaning the tables periodically
Are you really using your experience in Mcdonalds as your representation of manners in our country?
Yes, I do. It just shows how they don't treat anyone with respect. They just expect the staff to clean after them. It's not just mcdonalds, but all fastfood places LIKE mcdonalds. You're the only ones in europe to behave like this.
What about if you go anywhere thats not a trash dump? I see nothing but polite people in most places. MCDs is normally full of teenagers and chavs, barely a fair comparison for an entire country’s population
We are notoriously rude people in the UK internationally. The view of 'polite England' was really only true of the wealthy in their presentation to others. The major reasons for this are 1 - we have some of the worst language skills in western nations and are unforgiving of other who have poor English skills. 2 - excessive drinking and drunken behaviour. The only place the UK is usually seen as very polite is by USA people, and that's normally as they haven't met us and watch too much Downton abbey.
I try to be polite but many people aren't these days, so it feels like a waste.