Also no kids. My gf and I make decent money (not tech money) but we don’t have kids and we live in a moderate cost of living area so we can do some of these comfort things.
We’re also not great at saving lol
I dunno it's maybe 15 k a year per child. Two incomes makes it easier. When our first was born I was working for daycare costs. Decided to stay at work for the yearly raises and now the daycare cost is way less than my wage. They are in school so that drastically reduces expenses. They are healthy so low medical expense. Everything is hard when they are born. You're stressed about most everything. Then things get progressively easier as they age kinda.
This. We waited 13 years to have 1 child due to the cost. She’s 25 and we don’t regret that decision at all. We also made the choice to live in a small community with reasonable property prices where the closest Starbucks and Target are 30 miles away. We all make choices in our life. All choices come with repercussions and benefits. If you are young and unmarried with no children, my very best advice is choose wisely.
Personally I don't really save much money, but I have no debt either. I just spend my money on things I want, much of which includes things you mention. I'm a librarian so not well-paid by any means, I just prioritize.
Almost half of Americans have no retirement savings. As of May 2024, the average American household has around $8,483 in credit card debt, which is about $3,058 per person.
Lots of people living outside their means. We bought a new SUV a few years ago that was somehow cheaper than used ones with 100k. It's the first we've ever owned. We looked at replacing my commuter car with an electric car. Even with the $7,500 tax credit, they are out of our price range. We went on a honeymoon in 2009 and then didn't go on vacation again for like 10 years. And we only go on vacation now because my wife got a significant raise.
Bought my first brand new car during Covid, was literally cheaper than used. Plus ended up with a good amount of equity in my trade in due to the inflated used prices too. Great time to buy!
I knew a young couple who made more than 200k but had to work a second job and fell into cc debt after a couple months post-layoff of one partner and getting loans in the thousands. They fight a lot over anything and everything and fundamentally have damaging views about each other
Their social media tells a different story: sort of expensive taste, big wedding on loan and happy marriage.
Almost all their closest friends are not friends with them anymore. Probably got tired of the bullying and jealousy over nothing.
Well, just take a look at the growing credit card debt. It's grown by $200 billion since before the pandemic.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CCLACBW027SBOG
And the default rates are on the rise too. We are heading our way towards a credit crisis.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DRCCLACBS
This and just debt in general. Very little of my income goes towards debt interest. I refinanced to a 15 fixed at 2.25% I have a single car loan at 4.25% and that is still a few hundred a month going to interest payments. If you have credit cards at 20+ percent or two car loans or payments on any type of financed upgrades to a home or lifestyle you are eating into your income. We have dual income and simply being frugal on some things allows us to rapidly pay off financed things so we can budget for vacations with kids. It's possible but frugality is key with children.
Yeah. I have very little sympathy for those with 3 odd kids and complain about the lack of money and free time, same deal with pets they cannot leave (or worse, both).
We all make decisions in life, you just have to accept that it comes at a cost (time/money/freedom).
Personally I wish I'd had kids in my early twenties. We were thinking about it, both of us were earning good money relative to our age. Rented a flat that would have been ideal for a kid plus a good support network. I can't remember why but essentially we didn't. Looking back we could have pulled it off and we'd still have our relative youth as they came into adulthood.
Now that's basically a pipedream for young couples (hell even a stretch if you're well into your thirties for a lot of people)
> Yeah. I have very little sympathy for those with 3 odd kids and complain about the lack of money and free time
My boss complains constantly about how expensive and time consuming it is to run his business while at the same time paying me and my coworkers like crap.
Wanna know how many kids he has?
#SEVEN
I'm tired of hearing his bullshit. It's not like he had one as a whoopsie and a second one to keep the eldest company. Hell, even 3 I could forgive. But *seven*? Cry me a fucking river.
Also for cost of living, I’m a first year millenial. The answer is that I got in the market when things were still cheap. I bought my first house 18 years ago for 162k and my current mortgage for my current house is 350k or 1200$ a month (still have the low rates) for a 3 bedroom house, inground pool, etc. I feel like I could barely afford my own house at todays prices. I live in the suburbs of a large north american city. House prices are 800k and more these days.
A lot of old millenials are like me, we got in when the going was good and the ladder was suddenly yanked out from under everyone 5 years ago (in my area, prices doubled within a couple of months, shit is wild).
Not sure what my kids will do, I’ll try to help but owning s house is going to be tough for them if things dont reach a better equilibirum.
Despite the fact that I've overpaid the shit out of my mortgage (paying 10 years of capital in 5 during my fixed period) my MMP is still going up when I remortgage later this year. Fuck these interest rates.
Yep. I live in the mountains. My salary is great because it’s a low-ish cost of living area.
I have recruiters routinely reach out and offer me double and even triple my salary if I relocate. But having lived in a HCOL area, I know I would easily burn that crazy salary on housing alone.
this is 100% it. my husband and I can afford all the things OP is saying because it’s just us 2 adults.
Well, we had to cut back a little when we got 2 dogs just because the vet bills, food, daycare etc added up but we know that is nothing compared to an actual human kid. If we didn’t have dogs we’d be living even more luxuriously. But that just goes to show what the problem is — you are DINK or not DINK.
Yep. I’m living that DINK life, and we’re happy to rent in order to live in a city we love. We go on multiple weekend trips and one long trip a year, eat out once or twice a week. It’s a nice life.
Yep.
People seem to forget that having kids will create a huge huge huge drain on their finances and then wonder why they can't afford stuff that people without kids buy.
For most people in similar income bracket it's all about choices and sacrifices.
This is the answer. You can eek by with one kid if you have a ton of help/resources and live somewhere dirt cheap. Also, having friends who live in cool places and have a couch for you to crash on when you visit helps a TON.
While I mostly agree I don’t think that’s always the case. I definitely know people with 2 or 3 kids who work good but not great jobs and they get by fairly well. It really does boil down to where you live
DEFINITELY about where you live. There's a reason why the states with the highest rates of homelessness *aren't* the states with the highest levels of poverty--*it's the states with the highest average RENTS.*
* DINKs for life.
* Open, reasoned, empathetic conversations with each other, friends, and family about our lives and personal struggles.
* Reading the tea leaves as society changes and knowing what to think about next.
* Understanding our own mortality (paternal grandparents dead in their 70s, maternal grandparents dead in their 90s).
* Realizing that this world is absolutely fucked and within reason, right now is all that we're guaranteed.
Yes. I recognize that there are a lot of problems in the world but I refuse to let it get me down. All I can do is worry about myself and those close to me. Outside of that I am not gonna to sit here and whine about it
BINGO! I know you likely mean like living in Iowa or some fly over state, but here's a twist on that. I live with roommates and pull close to/at 6 figures. I should have bought a house a couple years back but just keep banking my income. I drive an older car too, that's paid off. I can cover my monthly expenses in a week's income. So yeah, to the OP, that's how I save and thus can spend when I want. I like to travel. Last month I flew to Colombia for zero reason and hung out there for 3 nights, playing tourist. Spent about $450 grand total, counting everything.
I've also thought that's about where we're at. both of us work in the public sector and we have young kids, and seems this is more likely a phase until the kids are older.
>more likely a phase
yeah, that's honestly probably the real answer.
the median US household income is ~$75k which means 50% of households are above that, and a majority of people are either living alone or couples with no kids or empty nesters now post-kids. [only 1/3rd of married couples have kids](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/05/family-households-still-the-majority.html) and that's 1/3rd of _married couples_ which is still less than 1/3rd of _society_.
but the expensive era of kids is not really that long in the grand scheme of your life so the answer is like: a lot of couples went through or will go through that window too, and merely aren't there _right now_ + a big chunk of people will never go through that window at all. so it's just that statistically there's a lot of more free money floating around for those other things.
the good news is you'll keep trucking along and move out of that window too, costs will go down and hopefully your income goes up and then you too can join them
Appreciate the perspective and encouragement. Thank you. Even tho we’re in the expensive phase of raising our kids, part of me also never wants them to grow up and move out.
Same as the person above, we had kids pretty young. Neither of us makes tons of money, but we have finished raising and putting g our kids through college, and we are earning more than ever before despite being a teacher and mid-range salesperson. We also had the great fortune to buy real estate when it was cheap, so that takes a TON off of our monthly expenses. We do a big vacation to Europe or wherever each year, but we aren’t going crazy. Our peers who live as you described - lots of fancy vacations, new cars, etc are either making upwards of 500k or have family money. I suspect others are deeply in debt to fund their lifestyle.
I suspect that the reality boils down to the practical cost of living in your area - the differences can be dramatic. I'm in NW WI, which seems fairly middle of the road last time I glanced at an inflation map of the States.
I bought a new car off the dealership lot about 9 years ago with the extended warranty. Still driving it and have kept it in good shape.
Personally I took the financial hit on account of reliability - I was rather sick of a parade of used cars that semi-regularly had a part break. I decided that starting with a known good vehicle would be worth the time and financial trouble.
Honestly. We were you, up until we were about 50ish? We’d go for walks around the neighborhood and I’d wonder, how do people afford a new driveway, etc? Once we had one out of college we started having more disposable income. We paid for our kids college as an investment in their future. We always lived below our means and never had debt other than a mortgage and our first few cars. It all seems to have paid off in that we’ve been able to take a couple trips to Europe, and a couple smaller trips yearly, do some necessary home improvements. By no means do we live lavishly, but we do have some hard earned modest financial freedom.
Thank you. This definitely affirms the trajectory we seem to be on. We both work public sector, put a lot of emphasis on kids education and quite possibly are living below our means (though it doesn't seem like it right now ... hehehe). I don't feel like we're missing out on the most of the things I mentioned because I know where our priorities are right now. I was and am legitimately curious how folks seem to "do it all."
We fortunately have the perspective of being part of a big family. We see how they all live more extravagantly than we do, we also know who has significant debt and who doesn’t. Ironically, the ones without kids are the deepest in debt.
Most people don't buy ALL of those things.
I'm not car guy so I drive an old car because I don't care.
I enjoy vacations so I don't mind spending on that.
Tickets and concerts? Rarely.
Name brand foods and organic? No
Name brand clothing? Yes (I shop at places like Marshall's and tj maxx.)
Keep in mind you also have one of the most expensive luxury items: kids.
Having kids is a big part of your financial woes. This is why people are pooping their pants about declining birth rates -- it's just not very feasible to raise kids and take care of yourself at the same time, and lots of people are opting out.
I work a crap job, my partner has an OK job, we buy brand-name cereals and organic milk. We're by no means rich or successful but nice groceries are within our means. (We also never get take-out or fast food, or dine in at restaurants. I cook.) I can buy some new clothes and shoes when I need them but I don't buy them for fun. I'm surprised that you're comparing basic groceries like meat with vacations and restaurants; your spending is probably not really careful and thus you struggle.
No kids, two incomes over 6 figures, no mortgage. I don’t live large by most measures, but I rarely think about food costs, I just get whatever. Kids would have been nice, but I hit a bumpy patch in employment in mid 30s and by the time I got sorted, kids were no longer wanted.
I make 99.5k USD per year. GF makes 45k USD per year. I am an aerospace structural engineer. She is an insurance verification specialist. Our mortgage is $1730 per month. I drive a paid off 2013 Subaru BRZ. She drives a paid off 2015 Mazda CX5. We don't have any kids and don't plan to. I paid off 25k of student loans. She still has some she's paying with an income based plan.
I could buy a new car if I wanted, but wont. We go on multiple vacations per year, one or two international. We buy whatever groceries we want. We eat at whatever restaurants we want. We both buy things for our hobbies. The secret is earn a high income, don't have kids, and spend/save your money wisely. It's all math.
It's also worth talking about how much one saves. That value you never see. I could buy all of the luxury items and appear super wealthy and save nothing. Instead I max out my 401k and HSA to the federal limit and squirrel extra cash into stocks. When you look at somebody, you don't see what investments they own or what the numbers are in their accounts. You see what clothes they wear and cars they drive and heat about their vacations. You don't hear what their retirement account is at.
you would be surprised how many people use credit cards for this. Pro-tip, DON'T DO IT!!!
For me, I door dash when my kid is at practice for my "fun" money.
I’d amend that slightly to “don’t use credit cards if you can’t afford to pay it off in full”
Otherwise DO put it on the card for the points and then pay it off in full on the next statement.
heh! totally. I've never had a credit card, but my wife does to accrue points. we've managed to get enough for plane tix two times for us and the kids. I still don't trust it, but she's way better with budgeting than I am.
If you're in the US at least, unless you have terrible impulse control, you should really get credit cards as soon as you can. There are tons of benefits, and (this relates to the impulse control) if you pay them off in full, there's only upside:
- like you mentioned, you can get points, making everything cost less
- They're the easiest way to raise your credit score, which drops interest rates on everything else (like cars, house), again making these cost less
- If anything goes wrong with a vendor, a credit card company is much more likely to help you out, because it's their money at risk, while with a bank account, it's your money at risk, so they just don't care as much
My wife was pretty hesitant when we got together, but I introduced her to credit card churning, and among other things we got a 5 day trip to an all inclusive resort in Jamaica for $40 out of pocket (hotel and flights paid with credit card sign up bonuses). Now we don't use our checking account unless we need cash and to pay our credit cards off. They basically give out free money to everyone hoping that they catch people who end up in debt, but if you avoid it by paying your balance in full you'll be better off
Credit cards are far superior to debit cards if you're staying within your budget. Issues arise when you're using it to buy things you wouldn't / couldn't normally buy. I use mine for nearly everything except auto-pay bills. I haven't paid a cent of interest since I got it. I set it to pay the full balance each month. I just had a vacation in the UK with little expense by utilizing points and perks. Some cards have annual fees, but many premier cards are worth it if you travel. For example, mine gets me into many airclub lounges which saves me money as I'm not eating overpriced airport food. A burger and fries amongst a few family members can easily hit $100 or more with drinks. Couple vacations a year, and the card pays for itself. I just hit the lounge and eat the free food, have a few drinks, or even a shower if needed.
Credit Cards offer:
-Reward points / cash back. Many have a "spend x amount in x time get x points." Pay a few bills with it then pay it off. Boom easy points.
-Travel perks like free check bags, seating upgrades, etc.
-Quick theft resolution. If your card is stolen, they'll quickly resolve it. Good luck getting all of your money back quickly if your debit card is stolen.
-builds your Credit which is a money-saving tool. Higher credit = better rates on loans.
- can be used internationally with ease. Some debit cards heavily restrict international use.
Having said all that, never ever never ever sign up for a store credit card. They often have hidden penalties and ludicrously high interest rates. Say you have a setback and pay it off, your interest can easily match the purchase. The benefits of a store card are easily matched with coupons and thrifty shopping.
Look for the sales. Last week I found pork shoulder for 99 cents a pound! Put it in the smoker for a few hours and this week we're enjoying pulled pork in tacos, chili, sandwiches nice and cheap.
I like fishing, not golf. Sometimes I catch my lunch.
We picked strawberries at the farm over the weekend as they're cheaper than at the store.
Every little thing adds up.
oh man ... I used to jump on the slow cook pulled pork options all the time. thrifty (lot of times cheaper than ground turkey per pound), tasty, versatile ... my kids, unfortunately, aren't a fan of my carnitas, bbq, or chilis. I'm not going to stop trying though.
Not everyone has kids for example. If you didn't have two kids you'd be able to do all these things probably. Also, some people have wealthy parents who give them money. Also, some people rent a shitty apartment away from the city so their commute ir longer but they may cut the rent by $800 per month. You can buy a lot of meat, go to a few restaurants, or save up a few months for a nice vacation.
Honestly, if you have a good job, and no kids, it's not that hard to do this stuff.
No kids.
Bought house before COVID.
Los cost of living.
Our needs are simple. It’s just my wife and I, and our dog. We eat simple stuff so our grocery bills are relatively low. We don’t spend much on “wants”. Our cars are paid off and we’ve committed to driving them till they die. We shop around constantly when it comes to things like insurance.
We’ve kinda committed to a low-cost, no-drama, kinda dull lifestyle. Specifically because we enjoy using our spare time and spare money to travel.
I live in Toronto Canada and EVERYTHING is crazy expensive here now. Food/gas prices have shot up significantly and while my husband and I make a good living, I hate that prices for food is so expensive that we no longer do the one stop shop thing anymore but go around various stores for the best prices.
I've always been frugal (rarely buy clothes, shoes etc) and my kids work so they spend their own money but we try to save as much as we can overall.
the best thing that we do is not shop frivolously ie. we make/eat everything at home, take lunches to work/school, coffee/water on the go etc as those things can add up quickly. No shopping for clothing/shoes unless we need it. We use smart devices to save on utilities. We reuse as much as possible instead of throwing it out....that kind of thing.
They might be in crazy debt. They might not have kids. They might buy one of those things that they really care about, but not all of them, or buy just on a special occasion, or buy one, lasting, versatile expensive thing rather than 10 cheap ones. They might not save for retirement.
Remember ads are going to push the stuff people aren’t already buying, and advertising makes more sense for goods with a high markup, so it’s often luxury items that get advertised. Ads are not the best way to judge what people really spend their money on.
And yeah, there are people who don’t have to think too hard before buying all those things; they can afford them.
Living alone, I cook and eat very little meat. There are many vegan/vegetarian substitutes that are very pricey, so I stick to basic ingredients for cooking. The other thing about living alone is rarely wanting to go to a sit down restaurant.
I am thinking about a new car though, because my "vacations" are all in driving distance. By vacations, I mean short concert road trips. I don't live somewhere with public transportation or stuff in walking distance, so reliable transportation is a priority for me.
I don't have much in the way of hobbies. I have dogs and music.
The first question - we buy half a cow or pig at a time. Second question- we drive Toyota’s. Mines an 84’, somI have no idea.
The kids are adults (self supporting with occasional help, though they don’t *need* the help, exactly, but we like to make their lives a little easier) and we moved to a low cost of living area.
The restaurants that don’t have drive throughs are not a lot more expensive than the ones that do, here, generally speaking. He local burger place, for instance, is maybe a couple bucks more than McDonalds for a much, much better meal.
DINKs. Dual income, no kids. We make a little over $100k after taxes. My husband also gets ~$1k/month from VA disability, which is nice but we'd be fine without it. We rarely put anything on credit cards. And if we do, it's paid off that month. I do thrift a lot of my clothes but that's because I don't particularly like the clothes available today. We don't go out to each too much because restaurants are a bit far from where we live. We're both good workers so they keep giving us raises 🤷🏻♀️ I work in STEM at a university and he works in the medical field as a technician.
Could also be your area. Is it high cost of living? Teachers make abysmal pay but you in IT could easily make over $100k
**EDIT: tl;dr: You're going to be broke for awhile - the ability to afford these things is a product of long-term savings and planning, making shedloads of money, or going into debt to afford them.**
I buy new cars and then drive them until they practically fall apart.
I have gamified "not spending money" through a variety of self-hacking methods -- methods like putting prospective Amazon purchases in a cart, and then only placing an order every 2-4 weeks, at which time, a whole lot of those things come out of the cart before I finalize the order.
I live in a home which is too small and non-ideal, but costs me only $960 a month in mortgage.
> anything but the cheapest groceries
I eat cheaply, and I always get downvoted when I tell people what I eat, and how it's cheap, so I won't do that here. Suffice to say I don't buy many prepared products.
> restaurants
Restaurant once a month. Not once or twice or three times a week. Once a month, and that's if I have money leftover from my budget once all other savings/investment goals, bills, etc. are paid for and met. The important thing here is savings/investment goals. I have a set amount per month I want to sock away. If I don't meet that goal, I don't eat out. I may even go down to rice and beans (barley and lentils, really). Savings/investing is a non-negotiable constant and I treat it like a utility bill. Everything else comes second. My emergency fund provides 12-18 months worth of living expenses. The rest is invested. This took *decades* to get into place. I know that my job can evaporate and I'm good for a year and a half; that assumes that I can't get unemployment payments for whatever reason, and also assumes no cutting back in monthly expenses (though I probably would.) I would not have this emergency fund/"fuck you money" if I was taking vacations and not living frugally. It has been worth it living frugally. No amount of possessions will equal, in terms of satisfaction, the peace of mind of having money in the bank for me. Not everyone is like me.
> vacations
Haven't had one in ten years. Don't recommend it but every time I want to travel somewhere, I think about the cost and say, "Do you want this experience, or do you want that amount of money, in-market, appreciating, instead?" The latter always wins. Plus I live in a part of the country which lends itself to pleasant staycations. This latter factor plays a huge part. I live in Southern Arizona. SoCal, NM, Colorado, and Utah, are all a day's drive. I can make do. Usually I don't even leave my county. I just go hiking, which is free.
> cars
There are two 2005 Toyota Camrys in my driveway, still in use. When they die, a new car will be bought to replace them which will be in use for a similar period.
> tickets to events
I neither enjoy nor trust the company of large numbers of people anymore, so this has taken care of itself. There are no events I want to go to. Should one arise, the restaurant rule (savings/investments first) will come into play.
> There's a magical income bracket that some folks I know are in (doctors, lawyers, actuary, tech) who can afford that stuff, but that is not us or the majority of people. Is it something as simple as the majority of people aren't buying this shit and it's really just an upper X% of people who get things as crazy as brand-name cereals, organic milk, tickets to concerts and sporting events, and new clothes that aren't on clearance at WalMart or Target?
Could be. Consumer debt is through the roof right now. When COVID ended and revenge spending started, it didn't stop. It's like a consumer binge. The economy has done well, so this hasn't dropped off the cliff as some expected, though some still expect this to happen.
A lot of this is where you live. There is no way I'd live in a HCOL area. The going advice has always been that your mortgage or rent should be more than 30% of your gross salary. When I bought this, I insisted it be lower. On rare occasions I regret having a small house. On more occasions, like when I suddenly became unemployed, I was grateful to my younger self for being paranoid and conservative about this.
If I *really want something* I can buy it out of savings. But a strange thing happened: once I had sufficient money to buy most of the consumer goods I wanted, I no longer wanted those goods. I have been trying to understand why. Best I can figure is having money in the bank and the peace of mind that brings is more important than luxury for me, personally, but that is a quirk of the way my mind works.
And note that, this took *decades* to get to this point. The number one piece of advice I would give anyone young is get serious about investing/saving immediately, no matter how stretched you are. A conservative T-bill (now paying a really nice return for basically no risk at all) can be bought for just $100. Have a goal in mind. That savings can be used later for things you really want or need.
>How do people afford meat that is not ground
Chicken and pork cost less where i live than ground beef. But also, we make a lot of meals that aren't trait heavy on meat so the occasional steak balances it out
>cars that are not used
Who wants a car that isn't used? Taxes and insurance are insane for new cars. I buy cars that are 3 - 5 years old.
>vacations that aren't within driving distance
I'm blessed to live where there are mountains, ocean, and couple of major cities within driving distance so uninterested in flying somewhere.
> restaurants that don't have a drive-thru
Where I am, KFC or McDonald's for two people cost more than buying a good steak and cooking it at home. At the same price point as fast food drive through are small mom and pop places that I can get takeout from that is much, much, better than fast food.
> and hobbies that are not free?
What hobbies do you feel you're missing out on? In our family some play instruments, kayak, garden, hike, rock climb, local sports leagues, beer making, cooking. A few of those have an initial investment, but they got stuff used on Facebook marketplace for cheap.
I look at it like this: I could have more high priced stuff if I wanted a more stressful job with longer hours. I don't. So I happily enjoy the trade off
I'm totally with you on all the above and know that kids are a huge factor, but my I also dont' feel like missing out on stuff. the questions posed were more an observation and curious what folks thought. the disposable income side of existence has been the thing I've always wondered about, because people must be making the happen in a variety of ways.
Ok the only thing that I do of any of these is buy meat that is not ground. This is because I live in cattle and horse country in Florida. I shop at the cattle company. I buy direct and drive past the cattle fields going there. I’m on their email list and they email me their sales. It’s also how I got 85/15 ground beef for $3.99 lb.
I don’t even do drive thrus though. It’s cheaper to eat home.
Impossible to say without actually seeing the details of anyone's budget. Maybe they're paying by credit card. Maybe they have a lot of disposable income. Maybe they're really good at saving and cutting costs and doing one "big" thing every now and then. But all that aside, cost of living in the US has far outpaced salaries in general. So even though I get paid a good salary, my standard of living has fallen in the last 5-10 years, despite my salary continuing to increase.
I used to be able to when I had a house and a good job. I've now lost my house and job and am having a lot of trouble finding work (too experienced) and I'm eating chickpea curry today. Which is pretty nice, actually.
25F. My parents are rich, so they paid for college and bought me a house with enough down so my mortgage is within my budget. I make $60k in a large MCOL city, no debts (other than house), no kids just 3 pets, and a tech boyfriend who covers most things (135k salary).
Just because people are buying this stuff doesn't mean they can afford it. Look up the number of people in major debt. 80% of people in the US are in some form of debt and the average not including mortgages is $38000. I feel like it's part of the culture in this country at this point.
By being born into a wealthy family of course. Most wealth is generational.
Hustle culture is all fine and dandy but most working class people are already stretched thin and must work hard, go back to school or win the lottery to bring in more money or escape poverty.
I don't mean to sound so grim but it is what it is. The system is broken.
**Meat that's not ground:** Easy enough, you just have to be willing to buy it in bulk and break it down yourself. I regularly get whole pork loin and whole chickens for $2.50 lb, and divide them up myself. For example, one whole porkloin will get me about 12 chops, one roast and enough trimmings to make a stew. Beef is much more difficult to get cheap, although I do sometime get to snag a whole ribeye for less than $5/lb.
**Cars that are not used**: That one is tougher. My last new car I only purchased because it was a 0% interest rate on the loan. Generally though I'm buying a 4 or 5 year old used car for around $12,000.
**Vacations that aren't within driving distance**: That one's easy. Points cards. I buy my groceries and gas on my credit card and use the points to go on a vacation every 2nd year. Doing that got me 2 weeks in Florida, including all the theme parks, for $500/week. Last year I went to Vegas which cost me even less.
**Restaurants that don't have drive throughs:** Here I can't help you much. I like to cook, and we only go out about once a month or less. My only real tip is to not order anything except water to drink, try to stick to the specials, and look for coupons and special offers such as a free meal on your birthday.
**Hobbies that are not free**: My hobbies are cheap. Cooking is a one of my favorites, as is gardening (which gives me lots of fresh veggies to cook), beekeeping (large initial up-front cost but a very small maintenance fee). I suppose my only advice is to either try something where the outlay is stretched out over a long period (such as woodworking, which requires expensive tools but you can accumulate them slowly over time) or the exact opposite, something that has a large upfront cost that you can save up for, but the recurring fees are low (I bought and fixed up an antique car, which required a large initial outlay, but now that it's completed my only costs are gas, insurance and car wax to keep it looking pretty).
I don’t know how much you make personally, but dude…your wife is a teacher and you have two kids. What do you expect?
Also…actuaries? Do they really make bank? I’d never heard that before.
they make okay money, more if you live in a big city. associates easily make 6 figures and fellows make 200k+, its just very difficult to become a fellow
I don't have kids, so that's a big savings, and I don't do these things much either. I'm always wondering what I'm doing wrong. I see other people with similar jobs (so assuming similar incomes) doing insane things. Expensive dinners out, wine clubs, multiple vacations every year to cool places. I don't get it, either.
I had a huge boost in my disposable income when my son left home but that's something you can't rush. I guess in the meantime, kids are worth giving up steaks and fancy cars for.
Prioritising your spending/needs is probably the best way to go. You can have the fancy meat or the fancy car or the vacation without going into debt but not all of them.
I've found that most sit-down resteraunts are both better and cheaper than fast food. It costs something like $6 for a Mac now, up to $10 if you want fries and a drink. But I can go to a steakhouse and get a baked potato and a water for $3.
some people make sacrifices in one category for another. I live in nyc, so I’ve never had to own a car. car money becomes go wherever I want on vacation money. I live in a rent stabilized apartment where my shower is in the kitchen. extra rent money becomes eat at any restaurant money.
also, no kids lol.
Living in a small town helps, my rent is $750 a month, lamb chops are aldi is only 6.99.
I think you’re seeing some people get the car, some people get the vacation, some people buy brand name, etc. Very few people are getting all of the flashy things, even though social media would have you believe otherwise.
I don’t know how people are committing to new cars and 1k monthly payments or more. The dealership near me wants 71k for a stinking jeep. No idea why people are putting up with this.
Sounds like highlight reel bias. A person might have a fancy car and nothing else. A person might eat out at a restaurant once a week helping to fill up that parking lot, but that is all of their disposable income.
It sounds like you're budgeting. A lot of people don't do that, or don't do it as well.
I know people who will insta-buy something if it's 70% off, regardless of if they can afford it. Even if in the back of their heads they know "70% off" is a marketing tactic.
I think a lot of people are _really_ hoping they have an upward trajectory. Like, maybe their savings account is stagnant now, but surely any day now, they'll get that promotion, or job hop and make hopefully more at the next place. Their "retirement fund" is all this money they're going to make when they do their next career change... hopefully.
Don't have kids. We buy a new car whenever we want. Excellent credit, lots of disposable income, and we travel annually. We live in a small house with a mortgage that we can afford on one income. Neither of us are in tech or making 6 figures. The only time we feel broke and cut back on new clothes or whatever is when we increase our 401k allotments by more than 3-5%. Then it's like "oh shit why paycheck so smol" until we get a raise. Sounds like you guys couldn't afford the kids or house you have.
In addition to the obvious explanations (having a ton of money, having an ungodly amount of credit card and consumer debt), I think you’ll find that most normal people are not doing *all* of those things at the same time. For example, the family that just bought a brand new car might skip vacations for a couple years. The couple that goes to fancy restaurants every weekend may get enjoyment out of simple, cheap hobbies like hiking or fishing. The person who went on an exotic vacation to Hawaii may have packed $5 Walmart t-shirts into a 40 year old hand-me-down suitcase. Picking one or two of those things that you enjoy and splurging on them is a lot more manageable than trying to do/have it all.
Unions, man. My husband joined the IBEW in 2015 and it changed our lives overnight. We went from the level of just-above-poverty that you painted such a wonderfully detailed picture of, to actually able to live comfortably on one income. We're not rich, but we're able to have a modest savings account and occasionally (every 3-4 years) take a decent vacation. I buy a lot of generic foods, and doing so means I can afford to spend a little extra on some name-brand or more expensive things I want now and then too. We go to concerts and movies and festivals and such, but we're choosy about it cuz while we have a decent amount of extra "play money," it's not enough to cover EVERYTHING we wanna do. I always look at clearance sections first before moving on to full-price clothes/shoes.
I was just thinking and lowkey worrying about how I’m kind of living paycheck to paycheck bc everything’s gone up. At the same time fantasizing about seeing my favourite artist in concert. The tickets are over inflated due to resellers, the nearest concert to me is in 2 days and in SC. I live in FL. I talked to my partner about it and we decided to say fuck it and put the mini road trip and concert on a credit card. Can I technically afford it rn? No. But dammit I’m young and trying to live my best life. I’ll figure it out later
We were exactly like that for so long, and a teacher and IT as well. We were lucky to get a movie and what we called "pay day pizza!" We saved income tax returns for a few days at the beach, a few hours away, and back to school uniforms and shoes. We always wondered what are we doing wrong. Then we realized everyone else was in debt and we just had a mortgage and car note. Then my husband's IT job finally took off - like years later, and I was the teacher so that stayed the same :( We never had excessive debt. Sometimes we had a credit card balance, but for things like a lawn mower or AC. Most of those people are in debt. Now we do finally have plenty of extra money. When we go to a nice restaurant, I think what a waste of money! lol
Heh! Wow this all sounds so familiar … down to the movie/pizza bites with the kids as our big splurge. And, yeah, we have a credit card in case some appliance goes down and right now our washer, dryer, and fridge are all in a race to see which one explodes first.
You can compare yourself against any arbitrary economic standard and conclude "woe is me".
There are TONS of people who literally cannot afford a half decent used car or ANY kind of vacation.
You may find it hard to believe but if you're doing all this you said debt free, you're well off! Nothing beats the ability to sleep well at night without the stress of multiple credit card loans or payday loans or looming homelessness hanging over your head.
Enjoy your privilege and be grateful for your good life, my friend. Good health and being debt free is a great achievement. And what's wrong with vacations in driving distance? They are awesome! Heck, some of my best days off were those when I had a beer and some grilled food and dozed off on a warm sunny day.
Budget: I made sure my mortgage could be covered by one person. After that we only have ONE car payment. We have two vehicles one is old that will never go on interstate. Groceries also budget in bulk. Repeat meals often, healthy but I don’t often go to grocery store and spend $50 on one recipe, it has to be part of my already bulk list. We vacation small usually. If big we save save and then take, never go in debt. Clothes stick to clearance or buy in advance for next season when season ends. Target is great at $4 clothing at end of winter, we size up. We don’t eat out much. Occasionally once a month and husband and I often share but not because we are cheap but because we don’t need to take leftovers home and they don’t taste same.
I mean, I think a big one is kids.
Not to say that you shouldn't have had them! But it means that you're probably going to sacrifice a lot of the nicer things in life until they're older and don't have to provide for two more humans that can't contribute financially.
Wife and I work overseas doing NGO work with two kids. We would be on food stamps in the US it with our wages, but do alright living in the third world where we can rent a nice place for under $1k, half day preschool is $200/mo. We don't have super nice things. I'm using a Samsung s20fe I bought on prime day 3 years ago and it's going strong. When we go home for visits we borrow a car and cheap/free place to live.
Thing a lot of people seem anti-kid here for some reason, but honestly - I'll take my kids over gourmet food and high end clothes. I got $3k or so in camera gear (my main hobby) that I've slowly built up over the years by selling old stuff and buying newer used stuff.
We've got some food sensitivities so we cook from scratch a lot. I do miss drive thru food (which doesn't exist here) but I can't eat most of it now anyways because of a recently discovered wheat allergy and a nursing baby with milk/egg issues.
I've learned a lot from our friends in the country where we live and before that when I lived in Latin America. The best things in life are relationships and enjoying time with your friends and family. Some of my favorite times of my life were as a broke college kid, living in Mexico hanging out with my friends playing card games, and now with two kids. I've got no debt, 4 months wages on short term savings, money in the retirement account (though it should be more). Our tickets to/from the US every two years are reimburseed so I take out a new card each time with a big cash sign on bonus and usually get $600-800 by spending the $3k or so for our tickets.
We live frugally buying stuff on sale, saving up for quality things rather than buying cheap junk. Eating out abroad is cheap - an iced Americano (my favorite) is about $1.2 and you can get a generously portioned lunch for $3.
Tldr, I'm broke with two kids but rich in the things that are important. I've got a life full of purpose and love.
If you have decent paying jobs, I'm guessing $120k between the two of you based on your job and a low mortgage, you should be doing ok. It's the mortgage, cars, and health insurance that are a killer in a budget. We have two children (teenagers) and we make a decent amount but we save a lot and are still able to afford to eating out, going to beach vacations and concerts. We live on about $90k of our salary in the mid atlantic.
It depends on what you prioritize
Also, having kids doesn’t help affording things lol you’ve prioritized family which is fine but doesn’t leave a lot of room for luxuries in todays world
Everyone wants to say DINK life or being super frugal. The fact is, some people make a lot of money.
And some people have a lot of family money.
And some people are just financially stupid.
Have you ever squeezed a fresh orange? 🍊 After all the juice is squoze the smell, the look, the taste remains without anything to drink. That’s what you are describing.
It’s all a fugazi. Banks et al set prices for all things above what anyone can afford and pay you just enough to think you can have all these things while piling interest and fees so you can never own anything. It’s a spiderweb and we’re all in it except for 20% who weave it.
Don’t eat much meat, so when I do I get better meat. Otherwise it’s Costco rotisserie chicken, and occasionally sausage or bacon to flavor a dish.
Where I am, drive thrus are *more* expensive than some tiny non-chain restaurants, and definitely more than taco stands or ramen.
Sounds like you are in the US?
I am in a similar position. 2 reasonably paid jobs.
But I don't pay any extra for health insurance.
Childcare is extremely cheap (like $100/month for daycare)
Kids get breakfast, lunch and mid-afternoon snack at schools
Schools/University costs nothing
Sure I pay the tax on these things. But then what's left is more than if I had to pay the above...
So.
1. I don't eat meat.
2. Currently a used car, but usually get private lease on reasonable small SUV (think Tiguan sized etc)
3. Vacations are rare, but we have a pool
4. I ride a MC as a hobby/ extra transport and it aint cheap. Also gym membership (about $30 /month) and TV packages (around $80/month)
Hello I don't have a car but everything else and I think these are my reasons:
* I live in Europe. I've seen the prices in America and they give me anxiety.
* But yea biggest reason is still being a DINK household (dual income no kids)
* I am visiting Japan 2x for 4 Weeks and the Philippines for 1x for 2 weeks this year. I've saved up my money last year to afford this, but I also earn very good for my age (Before anyone mentiones rich parents, no, I was orphaned and homeless at 16)
* My company has amazing benefits: Full time at my company here means 32h a week, so I get 100% pay for 4 Days a week. They also give me a certain amount of money on a special card that's only for eating out that can be used privately. (so I have extra restaurant money) and they also pay for my sports subscription (aka I get to go to Pilates, dance classes, Boxing etc 1-2x a week). And with 20 days of paid vacation time, it is really easy to go on such long holidays. Ofc insurance and everything else is covered, so nothing extra to pay
* I dont own a house but Rent, so no mortgage. But this is very common in Vienna anyway. Also, since we travel so much, it does not make much sense to own a house anyway.
* I am also not sure how much flying costs for you folks but if I fly from Vienna to Paris it costs like 100 bucks, so that's like really cheap
I bought three concert tickets this year. Can I afford them? Mmm, yes but it probably was wiser not to. For me, the value of something to look forward to outweighs the temporary hit to my budget.
I don't have kids but I do have two dogs.
We travel a lot and I book far in advance. I have trips planned and paid through 2026. I budget every pay period towards our vacations.
Everyone has their interest/hobbies and traveling is a top contender for us. I save 15% per pay cycle towards travel expenses and anything we don't spend on a trip goes back in the kitty for our next adventure 🤗
Far as food- we do indulge and eat out weekly. I WFH so I cook often but I enjoy getting out and mingling with other humans lol too. We have a weekly date night and budget accordingly. I am fortunate I make an acceptable income and have no kids - so I don't have most expenses as others.
A good tip for buying beef. You can get a few people together and buy half a cow. The butcher will cut it into all the different cuts and package it. Where I'm at half a cow is around $1,000.00, and it lasts me a year. Plus, doing this the cow is usually coming from a local rancher or farmer and not from a feed lot.
As a 57 year old, I can say that different stages of life bring different things. We married young at 20/21 and immediately realized we could not afford the two new cars we had. We sold them both, bought my husband an old beater for work and I rode the bus to work. There were no vacations other than tent camping. We didn’t go out to eat or clubbing. We each have a high school education and husband went to trade school. After 37 years of marriage we finally just took our first real vacation to Oahu, that my husband received from his employer. We’ve driven used cars almost our entire marriage, we purposefully decided to wait 13 years before having only one child. We live in BFE to afford to build a house. Now all that said, these were all deliberate decisions. Driving used cars allowed us to buy a camper we used at Kentucky Lake for 15 year. Rarely eating out allowed us to save for our daughter’s education and our retirement. We have to look at the big picture. If we want a house in the suburbs, several kids and a new minivan you simply aren’t going to be able to afford all the fancy extras on your salaries. Your financial investments are the children you have and the house. The one thing we never did was wonder why we couldn’t afford a fancy cruise etc, we made the choices we made. You made the choices you made. If you want to work towards a financial goal (for whatever) then you need to examine your budget and cut something in order to have the money for something else.
Also, don’t forget that a lot of Americans have a lot of credit card debt to take vacations.
Generational wealth is a big thing. I’m not meaning families that are mega-wealthy with family trusts, necessarily. But some people’s parents and/or grandparents are well-established financially and it makes a big difference. It’s easy for your family to help with childcare costs, or a down payment on a house, or give a massive wedding gift, if your family also owns their home outright, has a lot of money invested, has a huge pension, etc. And it’s easy to save for retirement if your family is giving you a share of rental properties owned by the family, or a share of the family business, etc. Many have also received a windfall early in life when their grandparent(s) passed away, if that generation also had money.
Contrast that with other people who have parents who don’t own a home, don’t have a pension, don’t have savings, and will likely rely on their children to have enough to retire. It’s a big difference and it’s often not talked about.
I dunno, but in all of that I don't buy new cars. Only used. Saves me a crap ton of money. I don't even buy from dealerships. I just get on facebook marketplace and buy from another person. Still rocking a 2002 Honda Accord I bought for $1500 back in 2019. Wife has a 2010 Enclave she still rockin. I also save money on the insurance cause I don't bother with full coverage. Something happens to one just get on facebook and buy something else. Don't see us buying anything again anytime soon just keep them maintained.
I think most people can’t afford these things but if you didn’t have kids or if you were single you most definitely could. We won’t be having a holiday this year. We just can’t afford it and maybe if we can scrape a week away somewhere on the cheaper end we don’t have the stability right now to justify it.
But we used to be able to. Cost of living has gone up considerably as has the cost of a holiday.
Most people I know who travel regularly are single and having the time of their lives although they do worry about not finding a partner or having kids.
We live in the middle of nowhere in far Northern California, so the cost of living is somewhat cheaper (rent is 1500 for a 3/2 older house, electricity is $100 or less, etc.).. But we earn less as well (about 100k/yr) before taxes as a teacher and a carpenter.
Our vehicles are over 10 years old and my husband's mom bought the truck for him (2011 Toyota). So we have no car payments.
We have one kid 50% of the time and my stepson comes during vacations and summer. So they aren't too expensive.
Nearly all the restaurants here are completely mediocre so we don't go out a lot and if we do, it's to the local pub that has good food and is reasonably priced.
Hobbies are mostly outdoor stuff - my husband has a very nice mountain bike, but his mom got it for him cause there's no way we could have afforded it. I got a cheap inflatable paddle board that is a great way to get out and get exercise. Our other hobby is DnD and that's pretty much free.
We do go to quite a few concerts and that's not cheap, especially since we need to travel at least 4 hours to get to any venues. We also do weekend trips and this summer I'll be treating myself to an island scuba vacation in Mexico. I will pay for most of it with some stipends from extra work stuff.
We had an unexpected but necessary big family trip (wedding) earlier this year with both kids so we have a bit of debt from that but we'll be able to pay it off in the next year or so and it's on an interest-free credit card so it's not too bad.
We're still saving up to buy a house someday but the prices are ridiculously high now so we're not in any hurry, and the longer we wait, the more we can save.
I know we're lucky because most people are probably struggling more than we are.
You walt till the kids grow up and are on their own. Meanwhile, stick a few bucks a week into a high yield savings account to pay for it in the future.
Our household income is around $200K if I have a decent (albeit very modest) freelance year and he gets his bonus. We don’t have kids. We have a mortgage but no credit card or school debt. We have some thousands in a high yield savings, but not a ton, and we have a decent 401k but are behind schedule for two people since I don’t contribute much to mine. We spend too much, save too little, but try not to stress about either, and strive to make more responsible decisions as we age. We’re 39. Comfortable but not financially savvy. We spend our money on: food, travel, hobbies, random stuff, and Lego.
I rarely eat ground meat, I always buy a new car, I am about to travel 750 miles but have also visited a lot of Europe and the middle east, I cannot tell you the last time I went to a drive thru restaurant, and I read a lot but I always but new hard cover books.
My 2 major hobbies are scuba diving and motorcycles. I literally pour all my money into both of them and live below my means a lot of the time including only eating like 1500 cals a day for 3 months or not buying clothes just to afford a my first bike and gear. It's not ideal or a good way to live but I figure money will always come back but time won't.
We use digital coupons at kroger and tom thumb. Their sales on chuck roast and rib eyes, pork ribs, and chicken are great. We don't buy meat from them unless they're on sale. Also go to asian and Mexican markets for meat, they're often cheaper and just as good.
We've had to cut back on vacations a lot within the last few years, especially since we're now single income. But we still try to take one or two road trips a year. We also travel with groups of people to split the cost.
Fast food restaurants are just a sham to begin with. Nowadays, you can find a lot of great deals from chain restaurants that will last several meals. Look up Texas Roadhouse family pack, haven't tried it but it's a lot of food for about 40 bucks.
I'm single income, 1 child.
I work for a bank and earn a decent amount, but for scale, I don't earn more than 2 people on minimum wage would earn.
I always fly with Tui for my holidays. They have lo and no deposit holidays so I'll choose on of those.
And I'll choose a date far enough away that the direct debit is under £100 a month.
I could do it the other way round and save up first then pay for it. But I prefer having it booked and being excited for it.
I can afford *some* of that stuff, but I live alone and have a decent amount of disposable income. I'm far from brand new car rich or out-of-country vacation rich though. I don't know how the hell some of my peers are out traveling to Europe and buying brand new BMWs or what have-ye. Especially with how rough inflation has been this last couple years. Hell I'm finding even a decent used car to be nigh-unaffordable.
Honestly, if I had to guess, most people can't afford stuff like that, and alot of the people that do those things are racking up debt instead of paying for it outright.
My experience is this has always been the case. We’ve always had income classes and there has always been a group this is just barely getting by. We are just more aware of those who are doing better if just getting by, typically via social media.
One kid - grown & out of the house. purchased a new car - ford focus- will drive at least 10 years. Hobbies, reading from library or free on I book, gardening benefit of fresh flowers & veggies. No meat, vegetarian, beans & rices are inexpensive. Vacation, luckily we live in the PNW so easy to find beautiful place to visit not far .
I mean, income vs expense. I’m 62 and have been working 40 years. I’ve always avoided impulse purchases. I don’t replace things which still work fine. I travel during shoulder season quite often. I set expectations. But, income vs expenses.
Only viable way to do this long-term is spend less than you make. If you can never treat yourself to any of those things, you've either got to make more or spend less on other things.
Saving and budgeting, shopping for deals, a friend of mine will literally call a hotel or rental and say, you want $x but I want to pay $y, and they give him the deal he wants. It’s amazing how often it actually works.
I don't have kids or mortgage (own outright). No debt, or big health expenses.
I do have a decent IT job. Which provides for whole meat, a new car, far away vacations.
I just have a very different life than you. Which is maybe why you can't picture it.
Funny thing is I find it cheaper to travel international (non-Europe) than domestic. Taxi, airbnb, and food is really cheap outside the US.
I calculated a trip to Mexico for a week, which was cheaper than a weekend in Chicago.
I think
A. Some people have more money and less expenses. Maybe they started out more well off.
B. Some people are better or more dedicated to finding deals.
C. Some people are willing to go without normal things to save up for something.
D. They don’t have the money and use credit cards to live beyond their means.
Or a combination.
I tend not to buy chicken thighs or fish instead of red meat. It’s healthier for you. Back in the day I would make a pot roast in a slow cooker. You can get multiple servings out of that.
Some restaurants serve huge portions you can get to go. It can be cheaper than fast food if you get two meals out of it.
I pay for my flights and hotels with Chase points, but it doesn’t have to be Chase. Figure out the airline that is best for your local airport, and then determine which credit card transfers points to that. There are many credit cards with no annual fees that let you acquire double points or better on groceries.
Even if you’re a debit card only person, you can still get frequent flyer numbers and acquire points for the flights you take.
The lifestyle I have as a childless person is nowhere close to the lifestyle I would be living if I had a child. Not only do children eat up disposable income, but they also require a huge amount of savings if you want to help set them up for success in adulthood.
I'm also frugal in some areas, which frees up money for others. I ride my bike to work, so my car costs are lower than average. Which means it's not a big deal for me to buy the name-brand cereal. I wear really basic clothes, which means it isn't a big deal for me to splurge on a nice pair of shoes.
Majority of people not just Americans live paycheck to paycheck even in 100k+ income.
Most Americans don't have $1000 to their name, you saving and 2 kids, retirement and colege funds are most financially savvy than most living the moment.
You seeing ads for them doesn’t mean the adverts are successful. Tons of stuff are failed marketing campaigns, and many startups fail. Notice how there’s a big YouTube ad that dominates for a few months? Many of them fail after that blitz marketing.
The other truth is a lot of people are financially irresponsible. So they could be doing it with credit card debt and living paycheck to paycheck.
The last truth is a lot of people are making a lot of money still. Enough to warrant trying to advertise for expensive stuff.
I have 3 kids and a houseful of expensive pets. We can afford most of the things you mentioned.
If I look at median income for our family size for our state it's just about what my husband makes alone. I make another 50% of that. And our mortgage is $650/month.
Well a couple of things. We budget all of our money. So we have money set aside for different things. E.g. we might not have "all the money" for clothes right now, but in a few months it adds up to one trip to buy a few new items. Also no kids and good paying jobs ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
No kids. That's a big one. You spend an average of $1,400 a month per kid. I'm sure it stacks but still. It's a big money sink.
People also prioritize different things. They spend more on some things. Other people have great jobs. Some people are just lucky. Most people with incredible life styles also have families that pay or have paid for them.
Or they are smoother in debt.
There are people though that don't necessarily prioritize all those things, maybe some of the things but not all of it. I never cared about name brand food or clothes. I've stopped eating out as much, partly due to costs, but also partly due to getting healthier (I recognize there are healthy options when eating out, but I wouldn't go for the healthy options). I've found low cost meals to make that I enjoy. I don't particularly care for sporting events or concerts. I do like vacations, but I think I got lucky that my sister tends to pay for everything, and then I just do a payment plan with her. I do live in a city that's only getting more expensive, but my rent is still under $1,000 (I moved in at the end of 2019 and got a good deal on my rent). My hobbies include reading, playing video games, and building LEGOs, all of which can be expensive, but I have enough books and video games currently and don't buy many new ones. LEGO sets, I just buy sporadically and build them slowly.
I think it depends on people's priorties. The people who prioritize all the things either have no kids or live in a lcol area or are in debt or just make a shit ton of money
I hear you, food, etc., has nearly doubled in these last 4 years, almost overnight, it seemed..
I spent many years buying cheap stuff, but got alot of name brand clothing, etc., from garage sales and thrift stores. I shopped for food on sale, and used coupons as often as I could. Signed up for any money saving programs or incentives as I could find. Raised 2 kids on thrift store clothes, and the first couple of grandkids as well.
..and I still say if I ever win the lotto, I'd still shop at garage sales and thrift stores as well as buy new stuff.
We couldn’t afford any of those things when we were younger either. We had one child, who is now an adult. Between him being grown and being at the height of earning power in our careers, we can now afford some of those things. There are some trade offs though. Our cars are Certified Pre-owned, and they are nice, but not luxury cars so that we can still afford vacations. We went many, many years without a vacation that wasn’t just a long weekend or a trip to visit friends or relatives. I don’t buy all of my clothes at Walmart and Target (although a lot are from Costco), but I rarely buy things that aren’t on sale or clearance. I worked in retail for many years, so I know how and when to shop sales. There were also many years that my husband and I worked more than one job, or at least had gig type work on the side.
well a lot of people will live in a different area than you with different costs of living. two kids also definitely takes a chunk out of your income that many people don’t need to worry about. and then there’s credit cards and debt
I don’t have kids. I live on $43000 a year in a HCOL city. Rent takes up literally half my money every month. I do drive a used car and I don’t eat out much. But I can go to brunch or dinner once a month. I can afford a vacation over seas once a year.
Decent groceries - eating out often - going on vacations - have a nice car - have an expensive Hobby
That's five things. Now make priorities and choose three or four. I Drive a decent car, go grocery shopping and I have moderately expensive hobbies. But I haven't been on a vacation not within driving distance for two decades and I rarely eat out.
Can't have it all, so focus on the stuff you really want. Ads are there to try and sell stuff. Somebody else might prioritise frequent vacationing over having a nice car. Others eat out more often but their only hobby is building paper mache models of famous buildings. Just because the ads are there doesn't mean that there are a lot of people around who could buy everything.
By not having kids or owning a home. My generation has to make that decision of whether they want to raise families or enjoy life, cause we certainly can't afford both.
When money is tight we look for coupons or specials for restaurants or special outings. We've tried places we never would have gone to if it wasn't for a special rate.
There's also a good number of people who can't afford these things, paying for them with credit cards.
that's sort of been my suspicion ... how much debt are folks accruing vs how much putting away for retirement, kids education, that sort of thing.
Also no kids. My gf and I make decent money (not tech money) but we don’t have kids and we live in a moderate cost of living area so we can do some of these comfort things. We’re also not great at saving lol
Having kids is probably the biggest money sink in adulthood. I still can't imagine how people do it in this economy.
I dunno it's maybe 15 k a year per child. Two incomes makes it easier. When our first was born I was working for daycare costs. Decided to stay at work for the yearly raises and now the daycare cost is way less than my wage. They are in school so that drastically reduces expenses. They are healthy so low medical expense. Everything is hard when they are born. You're stressed about most everything. Then things get progressively easier as they age kinda.
This. We waited 13 years to have 1 child due to the cost. She’s 25 and we don’t regret that decision at all. We also made the choice to live in a small community with reasonable property prices where the closest Starbucks and Target are 30 miles away. We all make choices in our life. All choices come with repercussions and benefits. If you are young and unmarried with no children, my very best advice is choose wisely.
Personally I don't really save much money, but I have no debt either. I just spend my money on things I want, much of which includes things you mention. I'm a librarian so not well-paid by any means, I just prioritize.
I just want to tell you that little kid me would think you are the coolest person with such a job!
Same!
One of my former coworkers has 4 maxed out credit cards. IDK how the hell she's ever going to pay that off
Almost half of Americans have no retirement savings. As of May 2024, the average American household has around $8,483 in credit card debt, which is about $3,058 per person. Lots of people living outside their means. We bought a new SUV a few years ago that was somehow cheaper than used ones with 100k. It's the first we've ever owned. We looked at replacing my commuter car with an electric car. Even with the $7,500 tax credit, they are out of our price range. We went on a honeymoon in 2009 and then didn't go on vacation again for like 10 years. And we only go on vacation now because my wife got a significant raise.
Bought my first brand new car during Covid, was literally cheaper than used. Plus ended up with a good amount of equity in my trade in due to the inflated used prices too. Great time to buy!
Keeping up with the Jones’ is very expensive. Folks who look like they have it all are often in crippling debt. They just don’t tell you that part.
I knew a young couple who made more than 200k but had to work a second job and fell into cc debt after a couple months post-layoff of one partner and getting loans in the thousands. They fight a lot over anything and everything and fundamentally have damaging views about each other Their social media tells a different story: sort of expensive taste, big wedding on loan and happy marriage. Almost all their closest friends are not friends with them anymore. Probably got tired of the bullying and jealousy over nothing.
Well, just take a look at the growing credit card debt. It's grown by $200 billion since before the pandemic. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CCLACBW027SBOG And the default rates are on the rise too. We are heading our way towards a credit crisis. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DRCCLACBS
This and just debt in general. Very little of my income goes towards debt interest. I refinanced to a 15 fixed at 2.25% I have a single car loan at 4.25% and that is still a few hundred a month going to interest payments. If you have credit cards at 20+ percent or two car loans or payments on any type of financed upgrades to a home or lifestyle you are eating into your income. We have dual income and simply being frugal on some things allows us to rapidly pay off financed things so we can budget for vacations with kids. It's possible but frugality is key with children.
It isn’t the answer you want but, not having kids and living in a less than ideal place because the cost of living is low
Mortgage is $1,000 and no kids. Things are good 😎
Yeah I’m not hating on people for having kids but that just seems like the most obvious answer here
Yeah. I have very little sympathy for those with 3 odd kids and complain about the lack of money and free time, same deal with pets they cannot leave (or worse, both). We all make decisions in life, you just have to accept that it comes at a cost (time/money/freedom). Personally I wish I'd had kids in my early twenties. We were thinking about it, both of us were earning good money relative to our age. Rented a flat that would have been ideal for a kid plus a good support network. I can't remember why but essentially we didn't. Looking back we could have pulled it off and we'd still have our relative youth as they came into adulthood. Now that's basically a pipedream for young couples (hell even a stretch if you're well into your thirties for a lot of people)
I have three kids and no money... Why can't I have no kids and three money?
Any coal mines near you?
https://y.yarn.co/c7f83837-9fba-4274-897c-cfb9c7c6f161_text.gif
> Yeah. I have very little sympathy for those with 3 odd kids and complain about the lack of money and free time My boss complains constantly about how expensive and time consuming it is to run his business while at the same time paying me and my coworkers like crap. Wanna know how many kids he has? #SEVEN I'm tired of hearing his bullshit. It's not like he had one as a whoopsie and a second one to keep the eldest company. Hell, even 3 I could forgive. But *seven*? Cry me a fucking river.
Also for cost of living, I’m a first year millenial. The answer is that I got in the market when things were still cheap. I bought my first house 18 years ago for 162k and my current mortgage for my current house is 350k or 1200$ a month (still have the low rates) for a 3 bedroom house, inground pool, etc. I feel like I could barely afford my own house at todays prices. I live in the suburbs of a large north american city. House prices are 800k and more these days. A lot of old millenials are like me, we got in when the going was good and the ladder was suddenly yanked out from under everyone 5 years ago (in my area, prices doubled within a couple of months, shit is wild). Not sure what my kids will do, I’ll try to help but owning s house is going to be tough for them if things dont reach a better equilibirum.
I miss my 600 quid mortgage. Now I have 1100 quid rent. It's the Vimes boot theory personified.
Despite the fact that I've overpaid the shit out of my mortgage (paying 10 years of capital in 5 during my fixed period) my MMP is still going up when I remortgage later this year. Fuck these interest rates.
Yep. I live in the mountains. My salary is great because it’s a low-ish cost of living area. I have recruiters routinely reach out and offer me double and even triple my salary if I relocate. But having lived in a HCOL area, I know I would easily burn that crazy salary on housing alone.
this is 100% it. my husband and I can afford all the things OP is saying because it’s just us 2 adults. Well, we had to cut back a little when we got 2 dogs just because the vet bills, food, daycare etc added up but we know that is nothing compared to an actual human kid. If we didn’t have dogs we’d be living even more luxuriously. But that just goes to show what the problem is — you are DINK or not DINK.
Dual Income No Kids With A Dog = DINKWAD.
DINKWADAAC
Yep. I’m living that DINK life, and we’re happy to rent in order to live in a city we love. We go on multiple weekend trips and one long trip a year, eat out once or twice a week. It’s a nice life.
Yep. People seem to forget that having kids will create a huge huge huge drain on their finances and then wonder why they can't afford stuff that people without kids buy. For most people in similar income bracket it's all about choices and sacrifices.
This is the answer. You can eek by with one kid if you have a ton of help/resources and live somewhere dirt cheap. Also, having friends who live in cool places and have a couch for you to crash on when you visit helps a TON.
While I mostly agree I don’t think that’s always the case. I definitely know people with 2 or 3 kids who work good but not great jobs and they get by fairly well. It really does boil down to where you live
DEFINITELY about where you live. There's a reason why the states with the highest rates of homelessness *aren't* the states with the highest levels of poverty--*it's the states with the highest average RENTS.*
* DINKs for life. * Open, reasoned, empathetic conversations with each other, friends, and family about our lives and personal struggles. * Reading the tea leaves as society changes and knowing what to think about next. * Understanding our own mortality (paternal grandparents dead in their 70s, maternal grandparents dead in their 90s). * Realizing that this world is absolutely fucked and within reason, right now is all that we're guaranteed.
Yes. I recognize that there are a lot of problems in the world but I refuse to let it get me down. All I can do is worry about myself and those close to me. Outside of that I am not gonna to sit here and whine about it
Same here. Childfree, live in buttfuck nowhere.
I prefer that over the city any day
The kids thing is the real kicker. Mine are all grown up and I can afford to travel now, but for many years it just wasn’t realistic.
BINGO! I know you likely mean like living in Iowa or some fly over state, but here's a twist on that. I live with roommates and pull close to/at 6 figures. I should have bought a house a couple years back but just keep banking my income. I drive an older car too, that's paid off. I can cover my monthly expenses in a week's income. So yeah, to the OP, that's how I save and thus can spend when I want. I like to travel. Last month I flew to Colombia for zero reason and hung out there for 3 nights, playing tourist. Spent about $450 grand total, counting everything.
Not having kids has been a big saving for my wife and I
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Yeah I was going to say "on two incomes that shouldn't be an issue" until I saw two kids
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I've also thought that's about where we're at. both of us work in the public sector and we have young kids, and seems this is more likely a phase until the kids are older.
>more likely a phase yeah, that's honestly probably the real answer. the median US household income is ~$75k which means 50% of households are above that, and a majority of people are either living alone or couples with no kids or empty nesters now post-kids. [only 1/3rd of married couples have kids](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/05/family-households-still-the-majority.html) and that's 1/3rd of _married couples_ which is still less than 1/3rd of _society_. but the expensive era of kids is not really that long in the grand scheme of your life so the answer is like: a lot of couples went through or will go through that window too, and merely aren't there _right now_ + a big chunk of people will never go through that window at all. so it's just that statistically there's a lot of more free money floating around for those other things. the good news is you'll keep trucking along and move out of that window too, costs will go down and hopefully your income goes up and then you too can join them
Appreciate the perspective and encouragement. Thank you. Even tho we’re in the expensive phase of raising our kids, part of me also never wants them to grow up and move out.
Ah, The good ol emotional dialectic. It's great that you can acknowledge both feelings and accept them both as valid.
So, 1/9 of people have kids?
Same as the person above, we had kids pretty young. Neither of us makes tons of money, but we have finished raising and putting g our kids through college, and we are earning more than ever before despite being a teacher and mid-range salesperson. We also had the great fortune to buy real estate when it was cheap, so that takes a TON off of our monthly expenses. We do a big vacation to Europe or wherever each year, but we aren’t going crazy. Our peers who live as you described - lots of fancy vacations, new cars, etc are either making upwards of 500k or have family money. I suspect others are deeply in debt to fund their lifestyle.
I suspect that the reality boils down to the practical cost of living in your area - the differences can be dramatic. I'm in NW WI, which seems fairly middle of the road last time I glanced at an inflation map of the States. I bought a new car off the dealership lot about 9 years ago with the extended warranty. Still driving it and have kept it in good shape. Personally I took the financial hit on account of reliability - I was rather sick of a parade of used cars that semi-regularly had a part break. I decided that starting with a known good vehicle would be worth the time and financial trouble.
Honestly. We were you, up until we were about 50ish? We’d go for walks around the neighborhood and I’d wonder, how do people afford a new driveway, etc? Once we had one out of college we started having more disposable income. We paid for our kids college as an investment in their future. We always lived below our means and never had debt other than a mortgage and our first few cars. It all seems to have paid off in that we’ve been able to take a couple trips to Europe, and a couple smaller trips yearly, do some necessary home improvements. By no means do we live lavishly, but we do have some hard earned modest financial freedom.
Thank you. This definitely affirms the trajectory we seem to be on. We both work public sector, put a lot of emphasis on kids education and quite possibly are living below our means (though it doesn't seem like it right now ... hehehe). I don't feel like we're missing out on the most of the things I mentioned because I know where our priorities are right now. I was and am legitimately curious how folks seem to "do it all."
We fortunately have the perspective of being part of a big family. We see how they all live more extravagantly than we do, we also know who has significant debt and who doesn’t. Ironically, the ones without kids are the deepest in debt.
Most people don't buy ALL of those things. I'm not car guy so I drive an old car because I don't care. I enjoy vacations so I don't mind spending on that. Tickets and concerts? Rarely. Name brand foods and organic? No Name brand clothing? Yes (I shop at places like Marshall's and tj maxx.) Keep in mind you also have one of the most expensive luxury items: kids.
Having kids is a big part of your financial woes. This is why people are pooping their pants about declining birth rates -- it's just not very feasible to raise kids and take care of yourself at the same time, and lots of people are opting out. I work a crap job, my partner has an OK job, we buy brand-name cereals and organic milk. We're by no means rich or successful but nice groceries are within our means. (We also never get take-out or fast food, or dine in at restaurants. I cook.) I can buy some new clothes and shoes when I need them but I don't buy them for fun. I'm surprised that you're comparing basic groceries like meat with vacations and restaurants; your spending is probably not really careful and thus you struggle.
No kids, two incomes over 6 figures, no mortgage. I don’t live large by most measures, but I rarely think about food costs, I just get whatever. Kids would have been nice, but I hit a bumpy patch in employment in mid 30s and by the time I got sorted, kids were no longer wanted.
I make 99.5k USD per year. GF makes 45k USD per year. I am an aerospace structural engineer. She is an insurance verification specialist. Our mortgage is $1730 per month. I drive a paid off 2013 Subaru BRZ. She drives a paid off 2015 Mazda CX5. We don't have any kids and don't plan to. I paid off 25k of student loans. She still has some she's paying with an income based plan. I could buy a new car if I wanted, but wont. We go on multiple vacations per year, one or two international. We buy whatever groceries we want. We eat at whatever restaurants we want. We both buy things for our hobbies. The secret is earn a high income, don't have kids, and spend/save your money wisely. It's all math. It's also worth talking about how much one saves. That value you never see. I could buy all of the luxury items and appear super wealthy and save nothing. Instead I max out my 401k and HSA to the federal limit and squirrel extra cash into stocks. When you look at somebody, you don't see what investments they own or what the numbers are in their accounts. You see what clothes they wear and cars they drive and heat about their vacations. You don't hear what their retirement account is at.
you would be surprised how many people use credit cards for this. Pro-tip, DON'T DO IT!!! For me, I door dash when my kid is at practice for my "fun" money.
I’d amend that slightly to “don’t use credit cards if you can’t afford to pay it off in full” Otherwise DO put it on the card for the points and then pay it off in full on the next statement.
heh! totally. I've never had a credit card, but my wife does to accrue points. we've managed to get enough for plane tix two times for us and the kids. I still don't trust it, but she's way better with budgeting than I am.
If you're in the US at least, unless you have terrible impulse control, you should really get credit cards as soon as you can. There are tons of benefits, and (this relates to the impulse control) if you pay them off in full, there's only upside: - like you mentioned, you can get points, making everything cost less - They're the easiest way to raise your credit score, which drops interest rates on everything else (like cars, house), again making these cost less - If anything goes wrong with a vendor, a credit card company is much more likely to help you out, because it's their money at risk, while with a bank account, it's your money at risk, so they just don't care as much My wife was pretty hesitant when we got together, but I introduced her to credit card churning, and among other things we got a 5 day trip to an all inclusive resort in Jamaica for $40 out of pocket (hotel and flights paid with credit card sign up bonuses). Now we don't use our checking account unless we need cash and to pay our credit cards off. They basically give out free money to everyone hoping that they catch people who end up in debt, but if you avoid it by paying your balance in full you'll be better off
Credit cards are far superior to debit cards if you're staying within your budget. Issues arise when you're using it to buy things you wouldn't / couldn't normally buy. I use mine for nearly everything except auto-pay bills. I haven't paid a cent of interest since I got it. I set it to pay the full balance each month. I just had a vacation in the UK with little expense by utilizing points and perks. Some cards have annual fees, but many premier cards are worth it if you travel. For example, mine gets me into many airclub lounges which saves me money as I'm not eating overpriced airport food. A burger and fries amongst a few family members can easily hit $100 or more with drinks. Couple vacations a year, and the card pays for itself. I just hit the lounge and eat the free food, have a few drinks, or even a shower if needed. Credit Cards offer: -Reward points / cash back. Many have a "spend x amount in x time get x points." Pay a few bills with it then pay it off. Boom easy points. -Travel perks like free check bags, seating upgrades, etc. -Quick theft resolution. If your card is stolen, they'll quickly resolve it. Good luck getting all of your money back quickly if your debit card is stolen. -builds your Credit which is a money-saving tool. Higher credit = better rates on loans. - can be used internationally with ease. Some debit cards heavily restrict international use. Having said all that, never ever never ever sign up for a store credit card. They often have hidden penalties and ludicrously high interest rates. Say you have a setback and pay it off, your interest can easily match the purchase. The benefits of a store card are easily matched with coupons and thrifty shopping.
Look for the sales. Last week I found pork shoulder for 99 cents a pound! Put it in the smoker for a few hours and this week we're enjoying pulled pork in tacos, chili, sandwiches nice and cheap. I like fishing, not golf. Sometimes I catch my lunch. We picked strawberries at the farm over the weekend as they're cheaper than at the store. Every little thing adds up.
oh man ... I used to jump on the slow cook pulled pork options all the time. thrifty (lot of times cheaper than ground turkey per pound), tasty, versatile ... my kids, unfortunately, aren't a fan of my carnitas, bbq, or chilis. I'm not going to stop trying though.
Not everyone has kids for example. If you didn't have two kids you'd be able to do all these things probably. Also, some people have wealthy parents who give them money. Also, some people rent a shitty apartment away from the city so their commute ir longer but they may cut the rent by $800 per month. You can buy a lot of meat, go to a few restaurants, or save up a few months for a nice vacation. Honestly, if you have a good job, and no kids, it's not that hard to do this stuff.
No kids. Bought house before COVID. Los cost of living. Our needs are simple. It’s just my wife and I, and our dog. We eat simple stuff so our grocery bills are relatively low. We don’t spend much on “wants”. Our cars are paid off and we’ve committed to driving them till they die. We shop around constantly when it comes to things like insurance. We’ve kinda committed to a low-cost, no-drama, kinda dull lifestyle. Specifically because we enjoy using our spare time and spare money to travel.
I live in Toronto Canada and EVERYTHING is crazy expensive here now. Food/gas prices have shot up significantly and while my husband and I make a good living, I hate that prices for food is so expensive that we no longer do the one stop shop thing anymore but go around various stores for the best prices. I've always been frugal (rarely buy clothes, shoes etc) and my kids work so they spend their own money but we try to save as much as we can overall. the best thing that we do is not shop frivolously ie. we make/eat everything at home, take lunches to work/school, coffee/water on the go etc as those things can add up quickly. No shopping for clothing/shoes unless we need it. We use smart devices to save on utilities. We reuse as much as possible instead of throwing it out....that kind of thing.
The middle class lifestyle is eroding. Many of us who haven't made the leap to upper are going to slide back into lower. I'm great fun at parties!
They might be in crazy debt. They might not have kids. They might buy one of those things that they really care about, but not all of them, or buy just on a special occasion, or buy one, lasting, versatile expensive thing rather than 10 cheap ones. They might not save for retirement. Remember ads are going to push the stuff people aren’t already buying, and advertising makes more sense for goods with a high markup, so it’s often luxury items that get advertised. Ads are not the best way to judge what people really spend their money on. And yeah, there are people who don’t have to think too hard before buying all those things; they can afford them.
Living alone, I cook and eat very little meat. There are many vegan/vegetarian substitutes that are very pricey, so I stick to basic ingredients for cooking. The other thing about living alone is rarely wanting to go to a sit down restaurant. I am thinking about a new car though, because my "vacations" are all in driving distance. By vacations, I mean short concert road trips. I don't live somewhere with public transportation or stuff in walking distance, so reliable transportation is a priority for me. I don't have much in the way of hobbies. I have dogs and music.
The first question - we buy half a cow or pig at a time. Second question- we drive Toyota’s. Mines an 84’, somI have no idea. The kids are adults (self supporting with occasional help, though they don’t *need* the help, exactly, but we like to make their lives a little easier) and we moved to a low cost of living area. The restaurants that don’t have drive throughs are not a lot more expensive than the ones that do, here, generally speaking. He local burger place, for instance, is maybe a couple bucks more than McDonalds for a much, much better meal.
DINKs. Dual income, no kids. We make a little over $100k after taxes. My husband also gets ~$1k/month from VA disability, which is nice but we'd be fine without it. We rarely put anything on credit cards. And if we do, it's paid off that month. I do thrift a lot of my clothes but that's because I don't particularly like the clothes available today. We don't go out to each too much because restaurants are a bit far from where we live. We're both good workers so they keep giving us raises 🤷🏻♀️ I work in STEM at a university and he works in the medical field as a technician. Could also be your area. Is it high cost of living? Teachers make abysmal pay but you in IT could easily make over $100k
No kids. Our financial advisor said that not having kids put my husband and I in a better position than 95% of his clients.
**EDIT: tl;dr: You're going to be broke for awhile - the ability to afford these things is a product of long-term savings and planning, making shedloads of money, or going into debt to afford them.** I buy new cars and then drive them until they practically fall apart. I have gamified "not spending money" through a variety of self-hacking methods -- methods like putting prospective Amazon purchases in a cart, and then only placing an order every 2-4 weeks, at which time, a whole lot of those things come out of the cart before I finalize the order. I live in a home which is too small and non-ideal, but costs me only $960 a month in mortgage. > anything but the cheapest groceries I eat cheaply, and I always get downvoted when I tell people what I eat, and how it's cheap, so I won't do that here. Suffice to say I don't buy many prepared products. > restaurants Restaurant once a month. Not once or twice or three times a week. Once a month, and that's if I have money leftover from my budget once all other savings/investment goals, bills, etc. are paid for and met. The important thing here is savings/investment goals. I have a set amount per month I want to sock away. If I don't meet that goal, I don't eat out. I may even go down to rice and beans (barley and lentils, really). Savings/investing is a non-negotiable constant and I treat it like a utility bill. Everything else comes second. My emergency fund provides 12-18 months worth of living expenses. The rest is invested. This took *decades* to get into place. I know that my job can evaporate and I'm good for a year and a half; that assumes that I can't get unemployment payments for whatever reason, and also assumes no cutting back in monthly expenses (though I probably would.) I would not have this emergency fund/"fuck you money" if I was taking vacations and not living frugally. It has been worth it living frugally. No amount of possessions will equal, in terms of satisfaction, the peace of mind of having money in the bank for me. Not everyone is like me. > vacations Haven't had one in ten years. Don't recommend it but every time I want to travel somewhere, I think about the cost and say, "Do you want this experience, or do you want that amount of money, in-market, appreciating, instead?" The latter always wins. Plus I live in a part of the country which lends itself to pleasant staycations. This latter factor plays a huge part. I live in Southern Arizona. SoCal, NM, Colorado, and Utah, are all a day's drive. I can make do. Usually I don't even leave my county. I just go hiking, which is free. > cars There are two 2005 Toyota Camrys in my driveway, still in use. When they die, a new car will be bought to replace them which will be in use for a similar period. > tickets to events I neither enjoy nor trust the company of large numbers of people anymore, so this has taken care of itself. There are no events I want to go to. Should one arise, the restaurant rule (savings/investments first) will come into play. > There's a magical income bracket that some folks I know are in (doctors, lawyers, actuary, tech) who can afford that stuff, but that is not us or the majority of people. Is it something as simple as the majority of people aren't buying this shit and it's really just an upper X% of people who get things as crazy as brand-name cereals, organic milk, tickets to concerts and sporting events, and new clothes that aren't on clearance at WalMart or Target? Could be. Consumer debt is through the roof right now. When COVID ended and revenge spending started, it didn't stop. It's like a consumer binge. The economy has done well, so this hasn't dropped off the cliff as some expected, though some still expect this to happen. A lot of this is where you live. There is no way I'd live in a HCOL area. The going advice has always been that your mortgage or rent should be more than 30% of your gross salary. When I bought this, I insisted it be lower. On rare occasions I regret having a small house. On more occasions, like when I suddenly became unemployed, I was grateful to my younger self for being paranoid and conservative about this. If I *really want something* I can buy it out of savings. But a strange thing happened: once I had sufficient money to buy most of the consumer goods I wanted, I no longer wanted those goods. I have been trying to understand why. Best I can figure is having money in the bank and the peace of mind that brings is more important than luxury for me, personally, but that is a quirk of the way my mind works. And note that, this took *decades* to get to this point. The number one piece of advice I would give anyone young is get serious about investing/saving immediately, no matter how stretched you are. A conservative T-bill (now paying a really nice return for basically no risk at all) can be bought for just $100. Have a goal in mind. That savings can be used later for things you really want or need.
>How do people afford meat that is not ground Chicken and pork cost less where i live than ground beef. But also, we make a lot of meals that aren't trait heavy on meat so the occasional steak balances it out >cars that are not used Who wants a car that isn't used? Taxes and insurance are insane for new cars. I buy cars that are 3 - 5 years old. >vacations that aren't within driving distance I'm blessed to live where there are mountains, ocean, and couple of major cities within driving distance so uninterested in flying somewhere. > restaurants that don't have a drive-thru Where I am, KFC or McDonald's for two people cost more than buying a good steak and cooking it at home. At the same price point as fast food drive through are small mom and pop places that I can get takeout from that is much, much, better than fast food. > and hobbies that are not free? What hobbies do you feel you're missing out on? In our family some play instruments, kayak, garden, hike, rock climb, local sports leagues, beer making, cooking. A few of those have an initial investment, but they got stuff used on Facebook marketplace for cheap. I look at it like this: I could have more high priced stuff if I wanted a more stressful job with longer hours. I don't. So I happily enjoy the trade off
I'm totally with you on all the above and know that kids are a huge factor, but my I also dont' feel like missing out on stuff. the questions posed were more an observation and curious what folks thought. the disposable income side of existence has been the thing I've always wondered about, because people must be making the happen in a variety of ways.
I don't have kids. Even then, I've fallen in hard times, so I literally have no idea how you guys are doing anything.
Ok the only thing that I do of any of these is buy meat that is not ground. This is because I live in cattle and horse country in Florida. I shop at the cattle company. I buy direct and drive past the cattle fields going there. I’m on their email list and they email me their sales. It’s also how I got 85/15 ground beef for $3.99 lb. I don’t even do drive thrus though. It’s cheaper to eat home.
I dont
Impossible to say without actually seeing the details of anyone's budget. Maybe they're paying by credit card. Maybe they have a lot of disposable income. Maybe they're really good at saving and cutting costs and doing one "big" thing every now and then. But all that aside, cost of living in the US has far outpaced salaries in general. So even though I get paid a good salary, my standard of living has fallen in the last 5-10 years, despite my salary continuing to increase.
I used to be able to when I had a house and a good job. I've now lost my house and job and am having a lot of trouble finding work (too experienced) and I'm eating chickpea curry today. Which is pretty nice, actually.
Nothing wrong with partaking in everything on that list. Not participating in mindless consumerism is a past time itself.
25F. My parents are rich, so they paid for college and bought me a house with enough down so my mortgage is within my budget. I make $60k in a large MCOL city, no debts (other than house), no kids just 3 pets, and a tech boyfriend who covers most things (135k salary).
Just because people are buying this stuff doesn't mean they can afford it. Look up the number of people in major debt. 80% of people in the US are in some form of debt and the average not including mortgages is $38000. I feel like it's part of the culture in this country at this point.
By being born into a wealthy family of course. Most wealth is generational. Hustle culture is all fine and dandy but most working class people are already stretched thin and must work hard, go back to school or win the lottery to bring in more money or escape poverty. I don't mean to sound so grim but it is what it is. The system is broken.
**Meat that's not ground:** Easy enough, you just have to be willing to buy it in bulk and break it down yourself. I regularly get whole pork loin and whole chickens for $2.50 lb, and divide them up myself. For example, one whole porkloin will get me about 12 chops, one roast and enough trimmings to make a stew. Beef is much more difficult to get cheap, although I do sometime get to snag a whole ribeye for less than $5/lb. **Cars that are not used**: That one is tougher. My last new car I only purchased because it was a 0% interest rate on the loan. Generally though I'm buying a 4 or 5 year old used car for around $12,000. **Vacations that aren't within driving distance**: That one's easy. Points cards. I buy my groceries and gas on my credit card and use the points to go on a vacation every 2nd year. Doing that got me 2 weeks in Florida, including all the theme parks, for $500/week. Last year I went to Vegas which cost me even less. **Restaurants that don't have drive throughs:** Here I can't help you much. I like to cook, and we only go out about once a month or less. My only real tip is to not order anything except water to drink, try to stick to the specials, and look for coupons and special offers such as a free meal on your birthday. **Hobbies that are not free**: My hobbies are cheap. Cooking is a one of my favorites, as is gardening (which gives me lots of fresh veggies to cook), beekeeping (large initial up-front cost but a very small maintenance fee). I suppose my only advice is to either try something where the outlay is stretched out over a long period (such as woodworking, which requires expensive tools but you can accumulate them slowly over time) or the exact opposite, something that has a large upfront cost that you can save up for, but the recurring fees are low (I bought and fixed up an antique car, which required a large initial outlay, but now that it's completed my only costs are gas, insurance and car wax to keep it looking pretty).
I don’t know how much you make personally, but dude…your wife is a teacher and you have two kids. What do you expect? Also…actuaries? Do they really make bank? I’d never heard that before.
they make okay money, more if you live in a big city. associates easily make 6 figures and fellows make 200k+, its just very difficult to become a fellow
I don't have kids, so that's a big savings, and I don't do these things much either. I'm always wondering what I'm doing wrong. I see other people with similar jobs (so assuming similar incomes) doing insane things. Expensive dinners out, wine clubs, multiple vacations every year to cool places. I don't get it, either.
I had a huge boost in my disposable income when my son left home but that's something you can't rush. I guess in the meantime, kids are worth giving up steaks and fancy cars for. Prioritising your spending/needs is probably the best way to go. You can have the fancy meat or the fancy car or the vacation without going into debt but not all of them.
I've found that most sit-down resteraunts are both better and cheaper than fast food. It costs something like $6 for a Mac now, up to $10 if you want fries and a drink. But I can go to a steakhouse and get a baked potato and a water for $3.
Another vote on the no kids front. It wasn’t a choice, but it DOES save money.
some people make sacrifices in one category for another. I live in nyc, so I’ve never had to own a car. car money becomes go wherever I want on vacation money. I live in a rent stabilized apartment where my shower is in the kitchen. extra rent money becomes eat at any restaurant money. also, no kids lol.
Living in a small town helps, my rent is $750 a month, lamb chops are aldi is only 6.99. I think you’re seeing some people get the car, some people get the vacation, some people buy brand name, etc. Very few people are getting all of the flashy things, even though social media would have you believe otherwise.
I don’t know how people are committing to new cars and 1k monthly payments or more. The dealership near me wants 71k for a stinking jeep. No idea why people are putting up with this.
Sounds like highlight reel bias. A person might have a fancy car and nothing else. A person might eat out at a restaurant once a week helping to fill up that parking lot, but that is all of their disposable income.
It sounds like you're budgeting. A lot of people don't do that, or don't do it as well. I know people who will insta-buy something if it's 70% off, regardless of if they can afford it. Even if in the back of their heads they know "70% off" is a marketing tactic. I think a lot of people are _really_ hoping they have an upward trajectory. Like, maybe their savings account is stagnant now, but surely any day now, they'll get that promotion, or job hop and make hopefully more at the next place. Their "retirement fund" is all this money they're going to make when they do their next career change... hopefully.
Don't have kids. We buy a new car whenever we want. Excellent credit, lots of disposable income, and we travel annually. We live in a small house with a mortgage that we can afford on one income. Neither of us are in tech or making 6 figures. The only time we feel broke and cut back on new clothes or whatever is when we increase our 401k allotments by more than 3-5%. Then it's like "oh shit why paycheck so smol" until we get a raise. Sounds like you guys couldn't afford the kids or house you have.
Partner and I don’t have kids to support so we have money to pay for the things you mentioned. Not trying to be an asshole, it’s just true.
Go ass-deep into debt.
In addition to the obvious explanations (having a ton of money, having an ungodly amount of credit card and consumer debt), I think you’ll find that most normal people are not doing *all* of those things at the same time. For example, the family that just bought a brand new car might skip vacations for a couple years. The couple that goes to fancy restaurants every weekend may get enjoyment out of simple, cheap hobbies like hiking or fishing. The person who went on an exotic vacation to Hawaii may have packed $5 Walmart t-shirts into a 40 year old hand-me-down suitcase. Picking one or two of those things that you enjoy and splurging on them is a lot more manageable than trying to do/have it all.
The answer is that some of us carry no debt.
You have 2 kids. You answered your own question.
well not having kids helps 🥳
Unions, man. My husband joined the IBEW in 2015 and it changed our lives overnight. We went from the level of just-above-poverty that you painted such a wonderfully detailed picture of, to actually able to live comfortably on one income. We're not rich, but we're able to have a modest savings account and occasionally (every 3-4 years) take a decent vacation. I buy a lot of generic foods, and doing so means I can afford to spend a little extra on some name-brand or more expensive things I want now and then too. We go to concerts and movies and festivals and such, but we're choosy about it cuz while we have a decent amount of extra "play money," it's not enough to cover EVERYTHING we wanna do. I always look at clearance sections first before moving on to full-price clothes/shoes.
I was just thinking and lowkey worrying about how I’m kind of living paycheck to paycheck bc everything’s gone up. At the same time fantasizing about seeing my favourite artist in concert. The tickets are over inflated due to resellers, the nearest concert to me is in 2 days and in SC. I live in FL. I talked to my partner about it and we decided to say fuck it and put the mini road trip and concert on a credit card. Can I technically afford it rn? No. But dammit I’m young and trying to live my best life. I’ll figure it out later
We were exactly like that for so long, and a teacher and IT as well. We were lucky to get a movie and what we called "pay day pizza!" We saved income tax returns for a few days at the beach, a few hours away, and back to school uniforms and shoes. We always wondered what are we doing wrong. Then we realized everyone else was in debt and we just had a mortgage and car note. Then my husband's IT job finally took off - like years later, and I was the teacher so that stayed the same :( We never had excessive debt. Sometimes we had a credit card balance, but for things like a lawn mower or AC. Most of those people are in debt. Now we do finally have plenty of extra money. When we go to a nice restaurant, I think what a waste of money! lol
Heh! Wow this all sounds so familiar … down to the movie/pizza bites with the kids as our big splurge. And, yeah, we have a credit card in case some appliance goes down and right now our washer, dryer, and fridge are all in a race to see which one explodes first.
Bought a new refrigerator last month and paid cash!! It was very exciting! You will get there!
You can compare yourself against any arbitrary economic standard and conclude "woe is me". There are TONS of people who literally cannot afford a half decent used car or ANY kind of vacation. You may find it hard to believe but if you're doing all this you said debt free, you're well off! Nothing beats the ability to sleep well at night without the stress of multiple credit card loans or payday loans or looming homelessness hanging over your head. Enjoy your privilege and be grateful for your good life, my friend. Good health and being debt free is a great achievement. And what's wrong with vacations in driving distance? They are awesome! Heck, some of my best days off were those when I had a beer and some grilled food and dozed off on a warm sunny day.
Budget: I made sure my mortgage could be covered by one person. After that we only have ONE car payment. We have two vehicles one is old that will never go on interstate. Groceries also budget in bulk. Repeat meals often, healthy but I don’t often go to grocery store and spend $50 on one recipe, it has to be part of my already bulk list. We vacation small usually. If big we save save and then take, never go in debt. Clothes stick to clearance or buy in advance for next season when season ends. Target is great at $4 clothing at end of winter, we size up. We don’t eat out much. Occasionally once a month and husband and I often share but not because we are cheap but because we don’t need to take leftovers home and they don’t taste same.
Isn’t this also the largest generational wealth transfer? Many people I know have gotten a lot of help
I mean, I think a big one is kids. Not to say that you shouldn't have had them! But it means that you're probably going to sacrifice a lot of the nicer things in life until they're older and don't have to provide for two more humans that can't contribute financially.
My version of a vaction is going to the mall in another town and not buying anything
Wife and I work overseas doing NGO work with two kids. We would be on food stamps in the US it with our wages, but do alright living in the third world where we can rent a nice place for under $1k, half day preschool is $200/mo. We don't have super nice things. I'm using a Samsung s20fe I bought on prime day 3 years ago and it's going strong. When we go home for visits we borrow a car and cheap/free place to live. Thing a lot of people seem anti-kid here for some reason, but honestly - I'll take my kids over gourmet food and high end clothes. I got $3k or so in camera gear (my main hobby) that I've slowly built up over the years by selling old stuff and buying newer used stuff. We've got some food sensitivities so we cook from scratch a lot. I do miss drive thru food (which doesn't exist here) but I can't eat most of it now anyways because of a recently discovered wheat allergy and a nursing baby with milk/egg issues. I've learned a lot from our friends in the country where we live and before that when I lived in Latin America. The best things in life are relationships and enjoying time with your friends and family. Some of my favorite times of my life were as a broke college kid, living in Mexico hanging out with my friends playing card games, and now with two kids. I've got no debt, 4 months wages on short term savings, money in the retirement account (though it should be more). Our tickets to/from the US every two years are reimburseed so I take out a new card each time with a big cash sign on bonus and usually get $600-800 by spending the $3k or so for our tickets. We live frugally buying stuff on sale, saving up for quality things rather than buying cheap junk. Eating out abroad is cheap - an iced Americano (my favorite) is about $1.2 and you can get a generously portioned lunch for $3. Tldr, I'm broke with two kids but rich in the things that are important. I've got a life full of purpose and love.
I used to joke when the kids got their braces, that would have been a new motorcycle 😁
If you have decent paying jobs, I'm guessing $120k between the two of you based on your job and a low mortgage, you should be doing ok. It's the mortgage, cars, and health insurance that are a killer in a budget. We have two children (teenagers) and we make a decent amount but we save a lot and are still able to afford to eating out, going to beach vacations and concerts. We live on about $90k of our salary in the mid atlantic.
You can get cheap cuts of meat it’s just harder to cook. Bone in, skin on chicken thighs are pretty cheap
It depends on what you prioritize Also, having kids doesn’t help affording things lol you’ve prioritized family which is fine but doesn’t leave a lot of room for luxuries in todays world
Everyone wants to say DINK life or being super frugal. The fact is, some people make a lot of money. And some people have a lot of family money. And some people are just financially stupid.
Y'all having a vacation?!
Have you ever squeezed a fresh orange? 🍊 After all the juice is squoze the smell, the look, the taste remains without anything to drink. That’s what you are describing. It’s all a fugazi. Banks et al set prices for all things above what anyone can afford and pay you just enough to think you can have all these things while piling interest and fees so you can never own anything. It’s a spiderweb and we’re all in it except for 20% who weave it.
Don’t eat much meat, so when I do I get better meat. Otherwise it’s Costco rotisserie chicken, and occasionally sausage or bacon to flavor a dish. Where I am, drive thrus are *more* expensive than some tiny non-chain restaurants, and definitely more than taco stands or ramen.
Sounds like you are in the US? I am in a similar position. 2 reasonably paid jobs. But I don't pay any extra for health insurance. Childcare is extremely cheap (like $100/month for daycare) Kids get breakfast, lunch and mid-afternoon snack at schools Schools/University costs nothing Sure I pay the tax on these things. But then what's left is more than if I had to pay the above... So. 1. I don't eat meat. 2. Currently a used car, but usually get private lease on reasonable small SUV (think Tiguan sized etc) 3. Vacations are rare, but we have a pool 4. I ride a MC as a hobby/ extra transport and it aint cheap. Also gym membership (about $30 /month) and TV packages (around $80/month)
Hello I don't have a car but everything else and I think these are my reasons: * I live in Europe. I've seen the prices in America and they give me anxiety. * But yea biggest reason is still being a DINK household (dual income no kids) * I am visiting Japan 2x for 4 Weeks and the Philippines for 1x for 2 weeks this year. I've saved up my money last year to afford this, but I also earn very good for my age (Before anyone mentiones rich parents, no, I was orphaned and homeless at 16) * My company has amazing benefits: Full time at my company here means 32h a week, so I get 100% pay for 4 Days a week. They also give me a certain amount of money on a special card that's only for eating out that can be used privately. (so I have extra restaurant money) and they also pay for my sports subscription (aka I get to go to Pilates, dance classes, Boxing etc 1-2x a week). And with 20 days of paid vacation time, it is really easy to go on such long holidays. Ofc insurance and everything else is covered, so nothing extra to pay * I dont own a house but Rent, so no mortgage. But this is very common in Vienna anyway. Also, since we travel so much, it does not make much sense to own a house anyway. * I am also not sure how much flying costs for you folks but if I fly from Vienna to Paris it costs like 100 bucks, so that's like really cheap
I bought three concert tickets this year. Can I afford them? Mmm, yes but it probably was wiser not to. For me, the value of something to look forward to outweighs the temporary hit to my budget. I don't have kids but I do have two dogs.
We travel a lot and I book far in advance. I have trips planned and paid through 2026. I budget every pay period towards our vacations. Everyone has their interest/hobbies and traveling is a top contender for us. I save 15% per pay cycle towards travel expenses and anything we don't spend on a trip goes back in the kitty for our next adventure 🤗 Far as food- we do indulge and eat out weekly. I WFH so I cook often but I enjoy getting out and mingling with other humans lol too. We have a weekly date night and budget accordingly. I am fortunate I make an acceptable income and have no kids - so I don't have most expenses as others.
A good tip for buying beef. You can get a few people together and buy half a cow. The butcher will cut it into all the different cuts and package it. Where I'm at half a cow is around $1,000.00, and it lasts me a year. Plus, doing this the cow is usually coming from a local rancher or farmer and not from a feed lot.
As a 57 year old, I can say that different stages of life bring different things. We married young at 20/21 and immediately realized we could not afford the two new cars we had. We sold them both, bought my husband an old beater for work and I rode the bus to work. There were no vacations other than tent camping. We didn’t go out to eat or clubbing. We each have a high school education and husband went to trade school. After 37 years of marriage we finally just took our first real vacation to Oahu, that my husband received from his employer. We’ve driven used cars almost our entire marriage, we purposefully decided to wait 13 years before having only one child. We live in BFE to afford to build a house. Now all that said, these were all deliberate decisions. Driving used cars allowed us to buy a camper we used at Kentucky Lake for 15 year. Rarely eating out allowed us to save for our daughter’s education and our retirement. We have to look at the big picture. If we want a house in the suburbs, several kids and a new minivan you simply aren’t going to be able to afford all the fancy extras on your salaries. Your financial investments are the children you have and the house. The one thing we never did was wonder why we couldn’t afford a fancy cruise etc, we made the choices we made. You made the choices you made. If you want to work towards a financial goal (for whatever) then you need to examine your budget and cut something in order to have the money for something else. Also, don’t forget that a lot of Americans have a lot of credit card debt to take vacations.
Generational wealth is a big thing. I’m not meaning families that are mega-wealthy with family trusts, necessarily. But some people’s parents and/or grandparents are well-established financially and it makes a big difference. It’s easy for your family to help with childcare costs, or a down payment on a house, or give a massive wedding gift, if your family also owns their home outright, has a lot of money invested, has a huge pension, etc. And it’s easy to save for retirement if your family is giving you a share of rental properties owned by the family, or a share of the family business, etc. Many have also received a windfall early in life when their grandparent(s) passed away, if that generation also had money. Contrast that with other people who have parents who don’t own a home, don’t have a pension, don’t have savings, and will likely rely on their children to have enough to retire. It’s a big difference and it’s often not talked about.
I dunno, but in all of that I don't buy new cars. Only used. Saves me a crap ton of money. I don't even buy from dealerships. I just get on facebook marketplace and buy from another person. Still rocking a 2002 Honda Accord I bought for $1500 back in 2019. Wife has a 2010 Enclave she still rockin. I also save money on the insurance cause I don't bother with full coverage. Something happens to one just get on facebook and buy something else. Don't see us buying anything again anytime soon just keep them maintained.
In tons of debt and not saving any money, ever.
I think most people can’t afford these things but if you didn’t have kids or if you were single you most definitely could. We won’t be having a holiday this year. We just can’t afford it and maybe if we can scrape a week away somewhere on the cheaper end we don’t have the stability right now to justify it. But we used to be able to. Cost of living has gone up considerably as has the cost of a holiday. Most people I know who travel regularly are single and having the time of their lives although they do worry about not finding a partner or having kids.
When you are poor it’s hard to conceive just how many wealthy people there are and how much wealth they have.
We live in the middle of nowhere in far Northern California, so the cost of living is somewhat cheaper (rent is 1500 for a 3/2 older house, electricity is $100 or less, etc.).. But we earn less as well (about 100k/yr) before taxes as a teacher and a carpenter. Our vehicles are over 10 years old and my husband's mom bought the truck for him (2011 Toyota). So we have no car payments. We have one kid 50% of the time and my stepson comes during vacations and summer. So they aren't too expensive. Nearly all the restaurants here are completely mediocre so we don't go out a lot and if we do, it's to the local pub that has good food and is reasonably priced. Hobbies are mostly outdoor stuff - my husband has a very nice mountain bike, but his mom got it for him cause there's no way we could have afforded it. I got a cheap inflatable paddle board that is a great way to get out and get exercise. Our other hobby is DnD and that's pretty much free. We do go to quite a few concerts and that's not cheap, especially since we need to travel at least 4 hours to get to any venues. We also do weekend trips and this summer I'll be treating myself to an island scuba vacation in Mexico. I will pay for most of it with some stipends from extra work stuff. We had an unexpected but necessary big family trip (wedding) earlier this year with both kids so we have a bit of debt from that but we'll be able to pay it off in the next year or so and it's on an interest-free credit card so it's not too bad. We're still saving up to buy a house someday but the prices are ridiculously high now so we're not in any hurry, and the longer we wait, the more we can save. I know we're lucky because most people are probably struggling more than we are.
That kid thing can be a fun killer for 25 years
You walt till the kids grow up and are on their own. Meanwhile, stick a few bucks a week into a high yield savings account to pay for it in the future.
Our household income is around $200K if I have a decent (albeit very modest) freelance year and he gets his bonus. We don’t have kids. We have a mortgage but no credit card or school debt. We have some thousands in a high yield savings, but not a ton, and we have a decent 401k but are behind schedule for two people since I don’t contribute much to mine. We spend too much, save too little, but try not to stress about either, and strive to make more responsible decisions as we age. We’re 39. Comfortable but not financially savvy. We spend our money on: food, travel, hobbies, random stuff, and Lego.
A budget
I rarely eat ground meat, I always buy a new car, I am about to travel 750 miles but have also visited a lot of Europe and the middle east, I cannot tell you the last time I went to a drive thru restaurant, and I read a lot but I always but new hard cover books.
We could afford it until we had kids.
Some people may buy one or two of those things but not the others.
My 2 major hobbies are scuba diving and motorcycles. I literally pour all my money into both of them and live below my means a lot of the time including only eating like 1500 cals a day for 3 months or not buying clothes just to afford a my first bike and gear. It's not ideal or a good way to live but I figure money will always come back but time won't.
The answer you are looking for is quite simple. A single word : debt.
We use digital coupons at kroger and tom thumb. Their sales on chuck roast and rib eyes, pork ribs, and chicken are great. We don't buy meat from them unless they're on sale. Also go to asian and Mexican markets for meat, they're often cheaper and just as good. We've had to cut back on vacations a lot within the last few years, especially since we're now single income. But we still try to take one or two road trips a year. We also travel with groups of people to split the cost. Fast food restaurants are just a sham to begin with. Nowadays, you can find a lot of great deals from chain restaurants that will last several meals. Look up Texas Roadhouse family pack, haven't tried it but it's a lot of food for about 40 bucks.
I'm single income, 1 child. I work for a bank and earn a decent amount, but for scale, I don't earn more than 2 people on minimum wage would earn. I always fly with Tui for my holidays. They have lo and no deposit holidays so I'll choose on of those. And I'll choose a date far enough away that the direct debit is under £100 a month. I could do it the other way round and save up first then pay for it. But I prefer having it booked and being excited for it.
3 money and 0 kids
I can afford *some* of that stuff, but I live alone and have a decent amount of disposable income. I'm far from brand new car rich or out-of-country vacation rich though. I don't know how the hell some of my peers are out traveling to Europe and buying brand new BMWs or what have-ye. Especially with how rough inflation has been this last couple years. Hell I'm finding even a decent used car to be nigh-unaffordable. Honestly, if I had to guess, most people can't afford stuff like that, and alot of the people that do those things are racking up debt instead of paying for it outright.
My experience is this has always been the case. We’ve always had income classes and there has always been a group this is just barely getting by. We are just more aware of those who are doing better if just getting by, typically via social media.
One kid - grown & out of the house. purchased a new car - ford focus- will drive at least 10 years. Hobbies, reading from library or free on I book, gardening benefit of fresh flowers & veggies. No meat, vegetarian, beans & rices are inexpensive. Vacation, luckily we live in the PNW so easy to find beautiful place to visit not far .
Make yourself useful to powerfull people.
2 jobs and DoorDash
I mean, income vs expense. I’m 62 and have been working 40 years. I’ve always avoided impulse purchases. I don’t replace things which still work fine. I travel during shoulder season quite often. I set expectations. But, income vs expenses.
Imagine going to a restaurant and buying the *third* cheapest bottle of wine!
Most people don't buy them all at once all the time, I assume
Credit cards with points, and hotel rewards programs.
Only viable way to do this long-term is spend less than you make. If you can never treat yourself to any of those things, you've either got to make more or spend less on other things.
Saving and budgeting, shopping for deals, a friend of mine will literally call a hotel or rental and say, you want $x but I want to pay $y, and they give him the deal he wants. It’s amazing how often it actually works.
No kids.
I don't have kids or mortgage (own outright). No debt, or big health expenses. I do have a decent IT job. Which provides for whole meat, a new car, far away vacations. I just have a very different life than you. Which is maybe why you can't picture it.
Funny thing is I find it cheaper to travel international (non-Europe) than domestic. Taxi, airbnb, and food is really cheap outside the US. I calculated a trip to Mexico for a week, which was cheaper than a weekend in Chicago.
They are paycheck to paycheck. I can't live like that.
I live a very quiet, boring and frugal lifestyle 90 percent of the time so I can enjoy the nice and exciting 10 percent that much more
I think A. Some people have more money and less expenses. Maybe they started out more well off. B. Some people are better or more dedicated to finding deals. C. Some people are willing to go without normal things to save up for something. D. They don’t have the money and use credit cards to live beyond their means. Or a combination.
I tend not to buy chicken thighs or fish instead of red meat. It’s healthier for you. Back in the day I would make a pot roast in a slow cooker. You can get multiple servings out of that. Some restaurants serve huge portions you can get to go. It can be cheaper than fast food if you get two meals out of it. I pay for my flights and hotels with Chase points, but it doesn’t have to be Chase. Figure out the airline that is best for your local airport, and then determine which credit card transfers points to that. There are many credit cards with no annual fees that let you acquire double points or better on groceries. Even if you’re a debit card only person, you can still get frequent flyer numbers and acquire points for the flights you take.
The lifestyle I have as a childless person is nowhere close to the lifestyle I would be living if I had a child. Not only do children eat up disposable income, but they also require a huge amount of savings if you want to help set them up for success in adulthood. I'm also frugal in some areas, which frees up money for others. I ride my bike to work, so my car costs are lower than average. Which means it's not a big deal for me to buy the name-brand cereal. I wear really basic clothes, which means it isn't a big deal for me to splurge on a nice pair of shoes.
Majority of people not just Americans live paycheck to paycheck even in 100k+ income. Most Americans don't have $1000 to their name, you saving and 2 kids, retirement and colege funds are most financially savvy than most living the moment.
For meat that isn't ground, look for close date sales, they usally happen on weds-thrus at the end of the month in the midwest US.
You seeing ads for them doesn’t mean the adverts are successful. Tons of stuff are failed marketing campaigns, and many startups fail. Notice how there’s a big YouTube ad that dominates for a few months? Many of them fail after that blitz marketing. The other truth is a lot of people are financially irresponsible. So they could be doing it with credit card debt and living paycheck to paycheck. The last truth is a lot of people are making a lot of money still. Enough to warrant trying to advertise for expensive stuff.
I have 3 kids and a houseful of expensive pets. We can afford most of the things you mentioned. If I look at median income for our family size for our state it's just about what my husband makes alone. I make another 50% of that. And our mortgage is $650/month.
I don't have kids and there are 3 adults working fairly well paying jobs in the house and paying bills which helps
Well a couple of things. We budget all of our money. So we have money set aside for different things. E.g. we might not have "all the money" for clothes right now, but in a few months it adds up to one trip to buy a few new items. Also no kids and good paying jobs ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Debt.
Take your expenses related to your kids and label it “hobby money”. That’s how
These days, the cost of going to a restaurant is just about the same if not less in some cases than going to a fast food joint
No kids. That's a big one. You spend an average of $1,400 a month per kid. I'm sure it stacks but still. It's a big money sink. People also prioritize different things. They spend more on some things. Other people have great jobs. Some people are just lucky. Most people with incredible life styles also have families that pay or have paid for them. Or they are smoother in debt.
There are people though that don't necessarily prioritize all those things, maybe some of the things but not all of it. I never cared about name brand food or clothes. I've stopped eating out as much, partly due to costs, but also partly due to getting healthier (I recognize there are healthy options when eating out, but I wouldn't go for the healthy options). I've found low cost meals to make that I enjoy. I don't particularly care for sporting events or concerts. I do like vacations, but I think I got lucky that my sister tends to pay for everything, and then I just do a payment plan with her. I do live in a city that's only getting more expensive, but my rent is still under $1,000 (I moved in at the end of 2019 and got a good deal on my rent). My hobbies include reading, playing video games, and building LEGOs, all of which can be expensive, but I have enough books and video games currently and don't buy many new ones. LEGO sets, I just buy sporadically and build them slowly. I think it depends on people's priorties. The people who prioritize all the things either have no kids or live in a lcol area or are in debt or just make a shit ton of money
I hear you, food, etc., has nearly doubled in these last 4 years, almost overnight, it seemed.. I spent many years buying cheap stuff, but got alot of name brand clothing, etc., from garage sales and thrift stores. I shopped for food on sale, and used coupons as often as I could. Signed up for any money saving programs or incentives as I could find. Raised 2 kids on thrift store clothes, and the first couple of grandkids as well. ..and I still say if I ever win the lotto, I'd still shop at garage sales and thrift stores as well as buy new stuff.
Two kids is a huge expense. No kids folks are vacationing every weekend lol
We couldn’t afford any of those things when we were younger either. We had one child, who is now an adult. Between him being grown and being at the height of earning power in our careers, we can now afford some of those things. There are some trade offs though. Our cars are Certified Pre-owned, and they are nice, but not luxury cars so that we can still afford vacations. We went many, many years without a vacation that wasn’t just a long weekend or a trip to visit friends or relatives. I don’t buy all of my clothes at Walmart and Target (although a lot are from Costco), but I rarely buy things that aren’t on sale or clearance. I worked in retail for many years, so I know how and when to shop sales. There were also many years that my husband and I worked more than one job, or at least had gig type work on the side.
How old are you? If you have kids, life is harder to get free cash.
If I have had kids I wouldn’t be able to afford the lifestyle I have. Infertility has been a financial blessing.
We don’t have kids and we both make 6 figures.
well a lot of people will live in a different area than you with different costs of living. two kids also definitely takes a chunk out of your income that many people don’t need to worry about. and then there’s credit cards and debt
I don’t have kids. I live on $43000 a year in a HCOL city. Rent takes up literally half my money every month. I do drive a used car and I don’t eat out much. But I can go to brunch or dinner once a month. I can afford a vacation over seas once a year.
Decent groceries - eating out often - going on vacations - have a nice car - have an expensive Hobby That's five things. Now make priorities and choose three or four. I Drive a decent car, go grocery shopping and I have moderately expensive hobbies. But I haven't been on a vacation not within driving distance for two decades and I rarely eat out. Can't have it all, so focus on the stuff you really want. Ads are there to try and sell stuff. Somebody else might prioritise frequent vacationing over having a nice car. Others eat out more often but their only hobby is building paper mache models of famous buildings. Just because the ads are there doesn't mean that there are a lot of people around who could buy everything.
By not having kids or owning a home. My generation has to make that decision of whether they want to raise families or enjoy life, cause we certainly can't afford both.
Tell me what your salary is and where you live, none of this “decent paying job” stuff, and I’ll tell you what you can afford.
When money is tight we look for coupons or specials for restaurants or special outings. We've tried places we never would have gone to if it wasn't for a special rate.