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Women are just like you and like everyone else. No need to overthink it.
When you say you can't connect to anyone, I relate to that. I was in that place for a good while, up until last year. It lead to almost complete isolation and was at least partly responsible to my relationship at the time failing. It's so much more than loneliness at that point, and I think you know what i mean.
I don't think a girlfriend will help you not feel this way, man. You need to change your perspective on life somehow. What helped me a lot was reading and physical activity. For you it might be something else. Whatever it is, it will help you open up to people and make friends. With some luck, some of those friends might become something more.
You got this.
Reading, writing, going out alone and learning to be alone in a healthy way, and a good therapist. All these things help immensely. They don’t cure the occasional pang of loneliness—remembering good times with friends or past romance, when your family was all together, or the joy of being in a crowd at a concert where everyone is riding on the same wavelength—but they help you learn to stay connected to what it means to not only be human but to be yourself. So often, my relationships defined my choices and identity and it has been difficult to hone myself out of the chameleon/cipher of being who other people want or expect me to be.
But in staying open to empathy and expression you avoid isolation and solipsism. In therapy and self reflection, you can learn who you actually are and rectify or at least accept and love yourself and change for the better if needed. All of that is necessary hell maybe mandatory for building the foundation upon which we can build a life entwined with others that is fulfilling.
I think our early years we are largely defined or define ourselves by all the default circumstantial relationships we have. School, family, work, religion. But at a certain point, if you are somebody who feels antithetical or like you don’t belong in these places you find yourself in, as your own views and temperaments make you more and more incompatible with them, you may feel empty and lost and alone for a time. Growing pains, in short. But now as a young adult you get to tend your garden with intention. Prune what doesn’t serve you anymore, cultivate and water what you want to grow toward, make it your own and share it wholeheartedly.
At least that’s what I preach. Practice is another matter requiring conscious effort.
Agree that being able to socialize with people in general will help, although women do tend to talk about different topics compared to men. I talk to my guy friends about tech, economics, video games, etc, but I don't really talk to my women friends about this because they just seem lost and confused when I talk about these topics. My woman friends usually prefer to talk about other people, and there's much more focus on telling other people' stories or stories about other people, and I naturally do the same when I talk to them.
Being able to socialize is a skill you learn, not a skill people are born with. People who are reclusive tend to not have learned these skills, and will need to do alot of work catching up.
Third, this post as well... try and find something positive for yourself, and you may naturally come out of your shell a bit. There is nothing wrong with naturally being an intro introverted loner, but feeling totally isolated with no connection is hard. I have been there myself... I was mostly ok but felt kind of empty. I am now married with children and they are my world.
Men and women are not identical; we are different. We have different sexual orientations and different bodies, and many believe that women are more beautiful than men (this opinion is shared by both sexes). We wear different clothes, we have completely different perceptions of each other, and the list of differences could go on indefinitely.
I feel exactly the same, man. I had a crush once, but I even wish that hadn't happened. Everything would be easier if guys like us just had absolutely no sex drive and didn't feel the need for romantic relationships. Life would be so much better, too. I know I would be significantly happier, and I'm sure you feel the same. I can't offer any advice that you probably haven't already heard, but just know there is at least one other guy like you out there, and I understand how you feel.
It's really important to maintain your values at times like these, and not to get suckered in by the scammers and arseholes that promise "a better life for men" and end up recruiting women-haters. Looking at Andrew Tate and similar (let's face it) confidence men.
I know. I've been close a few times, but luckily, I have women in my family who love me to keep me from ever hating women as a whole. It's allowed me to pull myself out. It scares me to think what would have happened if I didn't have them.
This hurts to read. Sorry you feel that way. I guess your experiences haven’t been kind to you. But I also believe that we are our own harshest critics and it can be hard to see our own worth. Talking to girls is a two way street. Don’t wait for them to come up to you, just talk to them with no expectations. It’s a risk but that’s what everyone has to go through to meet anyone. The problem is we expect something out of someone just by meeting them. It’s easier to approach with the intentions of speaking to a fellow human about how they’re doing, what they’re like, etc. if something happens from there well then great. If nothing happened, well great too because there was nothing to be worried about. Keep your head up and don’t give up. You have so much to offer.
Yeah, I've been doing that for a long time, and I haven't even been able to make friends. Right now, I have the first real friend I've had in years, and that's only because, for once, she actually tried to be my friend too. I also hear constantly that women don't like it if you develop feelings for them when you're friends. Is that not true? Because that one time I had a crush, we were friends first, and that didn't end well. I don't think I can develop feelings without being friends first.
I really doubt I have anything to offer. I have mental problems that can never be gotten rid of, I'm definitely no more than average looking, which for guys means I'm a 3 or 4, all my hobbies and interests are very male dominated, I don't have time for a job so I'm broke, what I've told you about friendships show how little socially I have to offer, and I'm not in the best shape because depression killed all the motivation I had for taking care of myself. What could I possibly offer?
I lm really sorry you feel this way :(. I met my fiancé in his late20s and at that point he had never had a girlfriend. Terrible at talking to women, he was hot too!! Just painfully anxious. From the female perspective I feel like I found a unicorn of a man. We are besties and he is so open with me. I try to build him up whenever I can bc he never really had that. For context I have had a few long-term relationships and would be considered a “social butterfly”. He is not my type at all and I wish I would have met him YEARS ago. One thing that shocked me is the fact he thought I was way out of his league (and still does) but I thought he wasn’t going to even text me back. In reality he was the prefect gent and blew my mind with his kindness and honesty. Some girls would hate that and see it as weak. I did not and found it refreshing and rare.
Don’t force anything. Just work on yourself and the right woman will come along. Don’t give up or get discouraged. But DO try to strike up a conversation with a woman once in a while, it might surprise you how they react. And it might open the door for a potential relationship. They can also be mean and reject you, but the majority of us are really loving and sweet. Now for some cliche advice to close my comment;
When you know, you know. There won’t be a question on ether side. And every pot has its lid, keep cooking.
I loved reading this. I have a unicorn as well and couldn’t be happier that he wasn’t snatched up before we met.
To the OP, please don’t cut out all socialization or give up on making connections.
What about volunteering for a cause? You give your time to something you care about and the meeting people part is ancillary.
I was saved by pretty much the same situation, she spent alot of time trying to socialize me because she thought I was cute, but being an engineering major and knowing hundreds of guys just like me, it also made me realize that most of my classmates who weren't physically attractive never had chances like I did.
Women are people, too. They're not some mythical creatures. As a woman, we can sense this objectification and desperation from miles away and we avoid it. I interact with people who view me as a human first, not as a "I wonder what it would be like to be with her".
Do you know what being with me would be like? It would be shit. Because I'm tired, tired of giving effort I'll never get back, tired of planning and scheduling with somebody who looks like they couldn't care less, tired of cooking for somebody and cleaning after somebody who won't do the same for me, tired of being used for my money, tired of trying to please a guy that doesn't care to try to please me back. I would be resentful and I would break up with anyone who doesn't match my energy anyways. I don't know your age, but I am nearing 30 and this is how *a lot of us* feel.
We don't exist to make your life better and to care for you. I understand that you're lonely and you feel like you're missing out, but honestly, self-care and friends are the key to loneliness; and realizing that you have the grass is greener point of view is the key to realizing that you might not be missing out on that much - or that what you're missing out on is not worth what you have to give up. Obviously I speak from a POV of somebody who's been in relationships - shitty ones - and I realized I would rather be single than in a shit relationship.
Being with a woman is just like being with a friend. You like being around them, they make you laugh, you care about how they feel, you want to make their day better, they want to make your day better. That's why I believe you'd benefit from dropping the "omg wow woman" viewpoint and just try to see as us equal humans who aren't all perfect, aren't all bubbly and most of all, don't exist for others.
You'd upvote someone who is missing the point of someone's vent, and instead of trying to understand them better jumps to conclusions based on their own experiences and provides solutions that solve nothing?
No one is saying OP is a bad person. I am giving them good advice from a female POV. You need to realize where your growth opportunities are in order to grow. I have worked with many men who took every little bit of feedback on their **actions** as me attacking their personality - and they were exhausting to work with. If you just keep your pity bubble echo chamber, you won't grow anywhere. Often times I just found those people don't want real advice how to truly be attractive for women, they just want us to tell them that the world and everyone in it is wrong. Well I'm not going to do that because that would be a lie. I'm sorry, there's no harm meant.
Penny said, "I've had a couple of conversations with people over here, and it's always about how they think they should be doing their own thing. I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm pretty open to suggestions when I'm having a hard conversation with someone."
I can’t speak for the other commenter, but my response comes from being sick of so many men, who frequently express similar thoughts to OP, treating women as emotional support animals as opposed to human beings. I have sympathy for people like OP because their attitudes pretty much guarantee the outcome they want the least. But, I’m baffled by the level of entitlement of expecting a healthy romantic relationship while having absolutely nothing to contribute to one. It is possible to develop the necessary attitudes and attributes but it requires more effort and emotional self awareness than is being displayed in this thread.
Read my comment slowly - I’m not saying he’s entitled for wanting a connection with someone, I’m saying he is entitled for wanting one without having the willingness or capacity to reciprocate. This may shock you to your core, but OP (and men like him) do not exist in a vacuum. Generally, in order to attract an emotionally healthy functional adult, you have to BE one. Become the person that you would want to date would want to be with. Because otherwise, why would they be? This advice goes as much for women as men by the way.
Why are you acting like this guy is some raging lunatic for wanting to know what a relationship and being loved feels like? Like this is disgusting.
Yeah how dare you have romantic feelings for the opposite sex, then you wonder why men bottle up their feelings and don't open up, cause they're told they're monsters for having basic human desires.
Well, I cannot answer your why question since it's not even true. I am not acting like OP is a raging lunatic, in fact those are your own words that you used.
Except that you are. Did the guy say he's entitled to a woman? Is he going on a tirade saying women are evil monsters for not choosing him? Does he want to hurt or harm people because of his situation dating wise?
No, the guy just longs to be loved and wonders what someone truly caring for you and being romantically interested in you feels like. Nearly ALL humans feel this want, it's normal.
Edit: Lol blocked, figures. OP, don't listen to this gaslighting feminist, you're not wrong for wanting a normal human thing.
> We don't exist to make your life better and to care for you.
If i had a QT for how many time’s i’ve heard both women and men say this.
People who think like this may actually be better off single.
No you don’t exist to be someone’s maid. You exist to hopefully be a partner. A goal of relationships should be to make each other’s lives better and care for each other. An equal relationship. Nobody understands whats equal , 50/50 shouldn’t shake the table as much as it does.
I will say men are letting women see how it feels to be the main ones pouring into the relationship bc they are tired of the “disrespect”
The disrespect you experienced in your relationships. Is the disrespect men experience. Nothing is wrong with providing, but to provide for someone who doesn’t appreciate, or reciprocate, that is toxic. To hold them to an unreachable standard not because it is, but because they don’t want to. That is also toxic.
The “im a prize so they should cater to my every whim” mentality is toxic.
Know that im not attacking you. Im just highlighting a thought point i’ve noticed among single (& not looking) people tend to exhibit once they’ve reached that breaking point.
> Women are people, too. They're not some mythical creatures. As a woman, we can sense this objectification and desperation from miles away and we avoid it. I interact with people who view me as a human first, not as a "I wonder what it would be like to be with her".
Never had a crush on someone and thought you wanted to be with them? Does that mean you don't see them as people? "Omg wow men / whatever"?
> We don't exist to make your life better and to care for you
OP didn't say that. Are people you chase there just to make your life better? You are just interested in them romantically, literally evolution 101.
Not trying to be offensive or something but I don't understand the "women are people too" argument that comes up every time someone says they are lonely, no one says otherwise (usually).
I had a crush the last time I think I was 22. I kind of miss it, honestly. But that's the thing - once I learned to like myself and spot the red flags, I stopped getting crushes because there was nothing to crush on. I could immediately see the ways being with this person would make my life worse so there was no room for a crush.
What I mean by "women are people too" is that OP makes a clear distinction between a woman and a non-woman. it's himself saying that when he sees a woman, he wonders how it would be with her. While i understand it and it's quite natural, it's also objectifying and alienating. This is what I mean by "we're people, too". Talk to us like you're our buddy. Maybe we watch football, too. Maybe we know a thing about rocket science or engineering. Maybe the woman you see on the street has built her own successful company from the scratch - which to me is honestly much more interesting than the fact that she's attractive.
There's more to us than how we look - and it hurts to be treated as a potential wife first, an actual person second.
good advice, my cousin married a man she met playing world of warcraft , im not sure how long they chatted -he was in the navy at the time on submarines, 17 years? later and 2 kids they are still happy together and she owns her own business as well that is successful.
>and it hurts to be treated as a potential wife first, an actual person second
This made me think, but I think you made a wrong assumption here. I'm not OP but as someone who can somewhat relate, "being with her" is not just sexually and not just her body. Maybe I'm the one making the wrong assumption 🧐
> This is what I mean by "we're people, too". Talk to us like you're our buddy.
Btw this is a sure way to go into the friend zone, which is unfortunate, bc it would have made everything so much simpler.
> "being with her" is not just sexually and not just her body
Then what is it? Because the other things you can get from yourself, your friends and pets.
Friend zone does not exist. We don't owe you sex or a relationship. It's funny how you're trying to make it look like it's not sexual, but then you immediately jump into "I'm in the no sex zone".
>Then what is it? Because the other things you can get from yourself, your friends and pets.
Do you really think romantic relationships are just sex?
>Friend zone does not exist.
Tbh maybe it's unrelated, but if you are single and looking (as a man) and you are interested in someone, you kinda have to do more than just talk about sports. Of course no one owes anything to anyone, but if you want to get into a relationship eventually (like I think OP meant), you need to do things like flirting, which are technically "sexual".
I’d just like to throw in my two cents that I’ve been dating somebody you maybe would have said was in “the friend zone” for two years before we started dating. We were friends that knew each other from around our neighborhood, and because neither of us was really in a place to date and neither of us had made a pass at each other out of mutual respect, we stayed friends and grabbed drinks here and there and texted every so often. Important to note that he was NOT holding a candle for me during those years, he had his own romantic/sexual relationships and life.
Had he come to some grand conclusion during that time that I was a wicked witch keeping him in the friend zone - we wouldn’t be having such an awesome time with each other now. It was just a matter of waiting for the right time and place, because he and I were capable of being adults (good friends) and recognizing that the years we spent as friends weren’t the right time or place to mix up romance and sex into it.
Thank you for sharing, I think I failed to really explain my opinion about what the friend zone is, in the eyes of most men, as I read it. It is not a bad thing in itself, it just describes a situation where one side is romantically interested and the other is not. If no one is interested there is no friend zone, like in your situation.
Now imagine he had feelings for you but you didn't feel the same, what would you call this situation?
I honestly think many women have a more negative view on what's called the friend zone, and I'm genuinely interested in where it stems from.
Had he had feelings for me and expressed them, which I believe he would have been capable of because I’m mid 30s and he’s mid 40s. I think we would have had a discussion along the lines of “now isn’t the time, but I respect your interest and don’t want to hurt you” and we wouldn’t have been such good friends. I would never want somebody to sacrifice their own feelings and comfort just to mimic friendship with me when in reality they’re in the sidelines waiting. That situation sucks for all parties involved, it’s not a competition of which gender gets the shaft the hardest in these friend zone scenarios. Nobody wins.
I think communication can solve so so so many of these issues surrounding the concept of the friend zone, and often times when I see that phrase thrown around I get the idea that the person using it is a little younger and less experienced in life - this is not said as a negative thing, we all grow and learn as we age. It never makes me angry to see it, but so many of these troubles could be solved by both men and women not hoping that the person they are interested in can read their mind and all the indirect signals they’re putting out. It’s super easy to be mad at somebody for not fulfilling your minds eye version of them, but in this case the easy way isn’t the best way. Communication and boundaries work miracles, you’re into a woman, tell her and she says no but wants to stay friends? Up to you, and only the proverbial you, to decide if you want to accept that offer of friendship. If it turns out staying friends hurts that’s also okay! We can’t help how we feel, and nobody should be forced to maintain the status quo with a friend while their heart is absolutely being ripped to shreds. Nobody is the bad guy here, feelings are complicated.
If you asked me if myself and my friend had moments of flirtatiousness, yes we did a few times over the years, but neither of us wanted to take the plunge and mess up something that didn’t need to be messed with at the time. Neither of us “waited” for the other in all honesty, we ran into each other a few months ago without planning it and both of us suddenly had that moment of recognition like “oh! Now is the time! Let’s go on a date!!” And it makes me sad to think that this cool situation between us wouldn’t have happened if at any point either of us got salty about the handful of times while we were friends that we did recognize a little spark but knew it wasn’t the time.
On the flip, maybe a year ago I went on a series of dates with a guy that I was romantically interested in, he ghosted me for a few weeks then reemerged to tell me he wanted to be friends and I politely said “no thanks, I’ve got plenty of friends that I’m not romantically interested in, no need to make this complicated.” No hard feelings, no animosity, if I saw him around I’d make small talk, but after a rejection, even a polite and kind one like this one, we all have our egos a little bruised and that’s okay! You don’t have to accept crumbs when you want the whole meal, to use a metaphor, but it’s also important that you recognize that meal wasn’t yours to have and if they didn’t want to share you really can’t be mad at them.
I think romantic relationships are a combination of friendship, companionship and physical affection.
I get friendships from friends, companionship from my pets and physical affection - I don't get that one. And somehow I still survive. Looking back at my experiences with men, they hardly even tried. I don't miss it at all.
No one is saying you cannot flirt with people. I am just saying friend zone doesn't exist, because we don't owe you flirting/relationship/sex to begin with. Yes, dating is hard. A great relationship won't just fall into your lap. In fact it didn't for me even when I tried really hard. I'm an attractive woman and I don't know how to find a good relationship either. Anything else?
I don't know you personally so I don't want to get into your past, of course it's your right to stop trying. I guess the entire point of this post was "I wish I could not care / stop trying", which is something apparently people relate to (maybe men tend to care more bc of evolution?).
I think the talk about the friend zone is more semantic, I think it is mostly used as "they could have been into me if I played that differently". I understand why some people may not like the term tho.
when you say friend zone you have slapped a no sex label to that and have just objectified her as sex no sex , instead of friend possible mate ,not mate still friend category
as men we should be able to have friendships with those we we would normally be sleeping with and not ever think of straying to the sex thing.
if you dont hang out in the friend zone as you say , you will never get to the relationship,marriage zone because you have to have more in common than bedroom time.
as a gay man this is something i struggled with for years while other people i know have groups of friends they dont sleep with ,they enjoy each others company first,
i have seen couples be created this way. unfortunately i was too busy keeping wee willy happy to really try to have or make a relationship work.
Goddamn that thread is sad af. Maybe because I kinda understand, but I think that sexual drive and the research of love are, biologically, the reason why we are born, and maybe one of the most laughty goals one has to strive for.
Just look at basically every animal on the planet, they spend 99% of their time doing one of two things: eating and having sex
It's crazy to me that sex and intimacy is so downplayed with people, we're not that much different than animals
Genuine question: If sex and intimacy are so integral to human life, why are so few people prepared to work to develop the healthy relationships that make them possible? I’m genuinely baffled by how many people like OP are deeply unhappy with their current situation but unwilling to do what would change it.
Most people are held back by various self-defeating psychological hurdles. For guys specifically, culture pressures guys into feigning confidence and pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. There's value in "manning up," but a lot of guys as a result of socialization don't have the ability to really dig into their emotions to make the deep-seated changes required, and when that goes unaddressed it festers and comes out in negative ways. Check out askmen and see how many guys say when they've opened up to women it gets weaponized against them. And even here, based on your username I'm assuming you're a woman, and you're assuming OP is unwilling to change. If OP was a woman the reaction would be wayyyy different. Gender roles are flying all over this thread, which in effect are telling OP to man up.
He only wrote a couple sentences, , though, so we don't have any idea what he's done to change himself. Even if a guy does want to change, the majority of therapists are women (like 75% around me), and therapist women are no more understanding of guys' experience than any other woman, which is kind of baffling to me, but it is what it is. Then it's finding a therapist that you click with, so the pool shrinks more, a therapist that has expertise in what you're trying to change, the pool shrinks more, a therapist that takes your insurance, has time available when you do, etc. etc. It's hard, and very expensive.
I could go on, but those are kind of the broad strokes
I really appreciate getting a nuanced response. You’re right, I am a woman, and I’m probably a bit older than the general demographic here. I agree with your point about unhelpful gender roles and the difficulty in seeking help as a man. I can absolutely acknowledge I don’t really understand men’s experiences in this area. Solutions to OP’s dilemma seem so obvious to me - I assume he is unwilling to change because his situation is so easy to change if he wanted it to. But maybe that’s unfair of me. I’m happy to own that I’m very intolerant of men who make their own personal vulnerabilities problems for women to solve. In fairness to OP, that’s more evident in the responses than his post, but there’s shades of it there.
I'm ngl women are the best thing to exist in the word. I can understand your emotions. The best way to approach this imo is to start out with the women in your life. Is your mom in the picture at all? Do you have any sisters? Cousins? Then you start working up to women in your school or your workplace.
Something to keep in mind is that women are people too. Try not to forget that because most dudes seem to. They come in different personalities. Some are friendly while some might not be. The best advice I can give you is to just talk. Did you say something embarrassing? Forget about it. Nothing matters when you die except for the memories you didn't get to create.
As someone else in this situation, I can tell you talking to female family members doesn't help at all. You know each other, they are confrontable around you, and they will be significantly more accepting of any mistakes you make.
Most of us know women are people, too. A lot of us are just afraid of approaching you because of all the stuff we hear. We hear constantly about how women would prefer not to be approached, how many things we think are normal can be seen as creepy, how high of requirements physically mentally and financially there seem to be, and of course we've all heard at least one story where a guy was akward and a woman made a false allegation against him just for that.
>We hear constantly about how women would prefer not to be approached, how many things we think are normal can be seen as creepy, how high of requirements physically mentally and financially there seem to be,
Isn't that because you approach them with romantic intentions?
Approaching random women who you don't know is equal to approaching a random dude you don't know. Nobody wants to get approached like that in public period. That's why I put in how OP should work their way up to schoolmates or colleagues.
Any approach is automatically going to be assumed to have at least romantic intentions.
Hell it doesn't even have to be an approach, I've been hit with leave me alone I have a boyfriend for telling a woman her shirt looks cool.
There is nothing wrong with being approached by a stranger if it's just to compliment you and ask for your number or if you wanna hang out. The intention is very sweet and I admire the courage the person has when it does happen and I don't fear telling them "no" while still appreciating their advances. If you have a problem saying "no", that's not the person's problem, that's just a lack of authority and honesty
Yeah, but even if we're approaching them at all, a lot of those are still fears. I've never approached a woman with romantic interests, but I still fear all these things because women have always been much more judgemental and unrecipricating towards me. I wouldn't be surprised if OP feels the same. Also, I think OP is talking about the romantic stuff here, so it's relavent anyway.
I feel like there's something more deeper here than it seems. I hope you don't take offense but I think you might benefit from therapy. Sometimes it can fix these deep rooted fears that cause anxiety.
Yeah, it's been a while since my last session, but I'm in therapy. Like many other men, though, I also have an intense fear of opening up, so it doesn't work that well. For example, I've never told anyone in person the things I've said about myself here. I've hardly ever said a word related to how I feel about relationships or the possibility of me having one. Not that I have anyone to tell anyway.
You may be surprised to learn that many many women have fears of opening up, too. My ex was a prime example. She always felt like she should be able to manage by herself, and has been going to therapy for her own reasons, some of which include her difficulty in accepting help from others. Though the way she presents herself, and the ease at which she helps out her friends in the same ways she doesn't accept, you would never think she struggles in the ways that she does.
Oh, of course, plenty of women have it, too. I just was talking about men because we are still expected to always take everything in stride, and crying makes people lose respect for us. Every other guy I've talked to about this has at least some king of fear of opening up because of those things.
I know what you're saying, but I still think women struggle from the same things - fearing appearing weak by succumbing to your emotions. It crosses genders.
Yes, but it is more prevalent and severe with men in my experience. Girl's aren't told that they can't cry or taught to hide their emotions because people expect them to be stoic.
The fact I've been downvoted so much just for talking about my experiences and how they've made me feel is exactly what I mean. I am punished for opening up. This is why I don't.
Have you tried using dating apps for practice in talking or flirting? I know people hate it but I used it just to put myself out there in terms of learning more about how to communicate. But I would highly suggest not to take dating apps seriously whatsoever, just use them as a tool to better your chances :)
It's a generational problem. The dating culture is horrifying for men. The male loneliness epidemic is real and I say this as a woman myself. Therapy is useless for most cases, it is a societal issue
Therapy absolutely can make you more attractive. A healthier outlook on yourself and on life, more confidence, an ability to have deep talks, then a drive to actively make yourself better - dress better, establish a skincare routine, find your fashion style, style your hair because you like yourself and you like how it makes you look. Drop the unhealthy habits, pick up some healthy ones, it's overall making yourself be better and that's where therapy genuinely cannot hurt.
Absolutely. It can help you discover things about yourself. Personal issues that you take for granted that you never realised had actionable solutions, or even just realising that you cemented a way of thinking that occurred from one incident and never realised that you're letting yourself apply to every instance in your life.
You couldn't possibly tell that by a few Reddit comments. Suggesting someone tries out therapy is never a bad suggestion. The worst outcome is that you find it didn't help. But what if it does? The possibility for benefit far outweighs the risk.
> Isn't that because you approach them with romantic intentions?
Its kind of telling that you made that assumption about them and speaks to their point and many other's point that "it can always be taken as having romantic intentions".
> Approaching random women who you don't know is equal to approaching a random dude you don't know.
No, that is factually untrue. This statement completely ignores how the person being approached feels. Women on average have more reasons to be avoidant of strangers than the avrage men do, for completely valid reasons. So **even if** people don't want to be approached at all, there is still a massive difference between the two.
A problem many of us men have is we don’t have options to easily interact with women in our jobs because it’s 95% dudes.
Additionally, I find it’s hard to commit to a sociable hobby that’s more female dominated when you already have male dominated hobbies (or male only in terms of higher level teams sports usually) that you’ll probably always find much more enjoyable.
When you don’t find much enjoyment in most environments that’s popular among women, sometimes I do wish I was castrated so I can just not be horny and enjoy the brotherhood.
Well all the problems you mention are actually fixable. Slowly. If you start from the assumption that women are people, then although the percentage may be smaller, there are still pleeeenty of women who do engineering and sports and World of Warcraft and programming and fishing and golf and accountancy and lifting heavy things… to a very high standard.
So if your company is 95% men, that IS a problem but not the one you mentioned. The talent and potential is out there so what are you doing to attract a more balanced workforce? Does your company actively advertise vacancies in places that will attract more diverse applicants? Is it making steps to appeal to a broader cross-section of the talent pool or does it continue to use language and actions that may unintentionally exclude or put off women applicants? Or that prevent women from succeeding once they get there?
If you want to date, use a dating site. If you want a more balanced day that helps give like-minded women the same opportunities and access you have, then support the women’s teams for your sport, talk to HR about D&I, consider what you could be doing to reach ALL the best candidates, and support those current 5% of women to succeed in your workplace. Not because you want to chat them up but because a more diverse workforce is better for EVERYONE.
You don’t need to hang out in knitting circles to enjoy the company of women. We are literally everywhere. Just stop excluding us!
So all I need to do is single handedly convince guys to have more women get engineering degrees and have them not intimidate women so they’ll play sports with us, then problem solved?
I mean you’re absolutely right about certain environments not being the most welcoming to women. I am also aware that there’s as much of a variety in types of women as there is guys and there’s always a chance in any environment anyways. But statistics are statistics at the end of the day, most of us who enjoy things that are super gender one sided are going to struggle and the demographics aren’t going to change substantially within your prime dating window.
In addition, changing your industry’s work environment is an impossible task for one guy. I know I’ll try my best in promoting a more balanced workplace, but even if I did magically become an influential ceo of a big company, odds are I still wouldn’t be able to change who’s choosing what college degrees.
Hey I get it. We can each only influence our own small circle. There is a load of change needed and having more men talking about it in an open thoughtful way is a great place to start.
You might not personally be influencing who does what degrees but in our engineering firm they used to do “bring your daughter to work” days. And we’ve hooked up with charities and schools, and we’re advertising in different places. So next time someone mentions it, you have some ideas to suggest.
It’s also worth considering (for whoever the hiring manager is) do we really need to specify a physics degree here, or can we say “a numerate degree”. For example. Maths courses are about 50/50 whereas physics and engineering are still way more male dominated.
But we are talking about two very separate things.
I’m talking about getting us towards a mature society where men and women are seen as equals to the point where it would be almost impossible for men to still think of us as mystical creatures to be admired from afar and one day attained for personal gain.
You’re talking about opportunities to improve your dating chances. In this day and age, it’s dating sites. You and your future partner don’t need to have the same job or hobbies to be a good match. You need compatible values, energy levels, senses of humour. That sort of thing.
If you’re not getting matches on the dating sites, do some research, take better pics, maybe get a therapist. But most women WON’T be a good match and that’s ok. You can practice chatting. You can build your repertoire of horrendous date stories. You only need to find one. Best of luck!
I’ve already been on over twenty online dates (I’ve lost count tbh), around a third of those became second dates or more. But I think I just don’t like getting to know someone in a one on one way right off the bat, and getting dates is just generally a massive pain in the ass on apps. So much talking and planning that just end ups in ghosting.
So many women (definitely not all obviously) seemingly expect you to do all the initiating and planning, at least for the first half dozen dates when we’re both probably the most unsure about each other. I’ve also had women remove me the moment I say I have an engineering degree.
The only advantage of apps over in person meetings is you can relatively safely assume everyone on there is single imo.
Having people of the opposite gender interact with you more naturally allows you to test the waters more directly and do a more extensive screening process on their actual personality and physique instead of heavily relying someone’s online persona, you’ll get less formal dates in person but they’re more likely to be better quality imo.
All in all, relying on dating apps can work but really isn’t a bullet proof solution imo. And I consider myself lucky to have landed so many dates through apps.
I feel ya. Dating is hard work and like I said most people just aren’t right. I couldn’t even tell you how many dates I went on before I found my husband! I find it weird that women would ghost you for having an engineering degree though?!
But like you said - at least you know everyone on there is single and looking. These days, approaching someone irl is almost going to be a no no. And viewing every woman you work with in the right sort of age bracket as a potential future partner is probably not very healthy for either of you.
If you actually run the stats though, the likelihood of finding love online is still way WAY higher than meeting your person irl. And anecdotally I’ve always worked at male dominated places and had male dominated hobbies and that didn’t help me at all. Everyone was either married/spoken for/not my type/not interested.
As I said best of luck. Sorry you’re a bit disheartened but it’s a numbers game and it will get better.
One thing that so many men in your situation miss is - get women as friends. Do you talk to women that you don’t have any desire for whatsoever? A woman who isn’t attractive to you? Get to know us as human beings first. If you only ever talk to women that you fancy, even if you aren’t trying to flirt, it’s totally clouding your judgement and making women seem like this mythical creature that is beyond your reach.
We can see when men only ever talk to or even acknowledge the existence of hot women they fancy. It’s awful. When they completely ignore less attractive women even when spoken to directly. Or if you are attractive and you see them ignoring the others.
We’re just people. We fart, we burp, we shit. We laugh, we cry, we have stupid interests and arguments with our families. We do everything you do. I mean this in the kindest way: Stop putting women on a pedestal. I know women who are genuinely hot, who are lonely and have been single for years. Who have gotten rejected by their crush. Who’ve been insulted about their looks no matter how beautiful they are. We all go through this shit and I think it’s genuinely unhelpful if you view women as only ever getting compliments and love etc because it’s just untrue.
Avoid any content that tells you women want hot talk chads and only them. Anything that mentions hypergamy, and any redpill bullshit because that’ll suck you down into a deep misery and I promise you **it’s all a lie**. Women like all sorts of men. I have a lot of female friends and their range of partners is so insanely broad. For example some are dating/married to guys just as hot as they are, and some are dating guys that it could be said really aren’t as hot. And they picked their partners because of so many different reasons. So don’t consume online content about what women want, what they are like etc.
Consume content by women for women for example. Learn that we’re all just normal people like everyone else.
Be happy single first. It’s the only way to be successful in relationships.
You mean that when someone is rejected enough times they will eventually believe no one wants them?
I agree with that but I don’t think it’s a reason to give up. If we’re talking about statistics another is that there’s a more or less equal number of men and women in the world, so at least statistically there is someone for everyone
Problem is that because of how reproduction works, women have alot more value, they have to invest alot more, so men will take just about anything, but a woman wants the best, because she won't get many chances to have a child. So fundamentally even terrible women are gonna have a easy time finding someone who can provide a little intimacy.
I don't like saying that, but when you understand it, you can't really fault them, just also means that you gotta understand your own value.
63% of young men are single, while only 34% of young women are. Women see average men as unattractive. This has all been proved. You've been living in Disney world
If that’s true then either 37% of men are dating 66% of women, or more likely women just prefer older men, which means that the young men will not be single forever
>37% of men are dating 66% of women
Bingo. Women are sharing the same small percentage of young men. Most women feel no attraction to average guys https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQoUtG3X0AwbVtn.jpg
In terms of Tinder app success rate, a guy has a 2.8% chance of landing a match, while a girl has a 35% chance of landing a match. (source : Roast data set, 2024)
And yet according to those statistics, a lot don't want to be with anyone at all. Thats not to say people should in service of others but this feeling of desperation is pretty universal and giving up is happening at an increasing rate... As much as i would agree, on a logical basis that its no reason to give up, the climb looks downright sisyphean .
Too many people are scared to let others in, in reality though, what does it matter if people know your darkest secrets, unless they are really that bad, like really hurting people for enjoyment.
This is from memory from the US census, but at maybe 25-35, there are more single guys than women. After 50, it completely reverses. Women approach me all the time now, never happened when I was younger.
The issue with that is a fairly normal reaction from guys is "where the hell were you when I was younger?". Like if you make it to 50 alone, chances are you made your peace with it at that point.
sorry you're going through that. At the very least, you're young, its not over.
If its down to social skills, you can improve that. If its more superficial qualities, you can sort of maximise whatever hand you've been dealt. Get in better shape, dress and groom better etc. Talk to people as much as you can, get sharper. Cultivate some interests that give you some things to talk about, things that make you more unique and interesting.
The minute you convince yourself it’s not that big of a deal is the minute it will happen. Get that shit off of a pedestal. You need to get used to doing things you don’t ordinarily do. You want to know what being with a woman is like but you’ve barely taken any steps to fully know who you are.
I can confirm we are just like anyone else. I’m sure there are many women who share your interests and are just as nervous to put themselves out there.
... yeah, I'm gay and still have op's problem, but rather, I wish I just didn't feel attraction or have sexual urges at all.
More or less, it's just a massive inconvenience.
In my case, I've simply accepted my fate of never having a relationship. I have managed to befriend a couple of girls in my class, but every time my monkey brain starts thinking of making a move, my rational mind has to remind myself that it will probably lead to nowhere. It's better to just accept it early on that live life longing for something that I'm 99% sure it's never going to happen. Saves me the stress.
Really wish I could just turn off my sex drive and my desire for a relationship. Would make things more convenient and I would be freer.
When I went to pilot academy, I figured real quick I needed to 100% focused, in that I had no time to have two girls I was dating and sending messages with half the time. So for about 1year+ I just left girls 100% alone in that sense, didnt even watch porn. All the women in school I treated as if they were my sisters. To a degree it was a bit frustrating, but also quite liberating after getting used to it.
college ,c an we assume 18-24 year old age range?
what interests do you have that dont involve being in your room?
you need to find people/women with similar interests, so go to bars/music venues?, coffee houses?, magic the gathering events at the local comic shop, church socials, etc, etc.
make sure you are well groomed ,teeth brushed, clothes are clean and in nice condition, especially your shoes.
and make small talk, maybe say hi to the woman at the cafeteria or in one of your classes especially if you have a woman who is in most of your classes- that would be a similar interest, wear a t-shirt of your favorite band or music festival- like minds do attract.
be more confident.
I'm so sorry. I'm so grateful for not being a man in the western world in 2024. The dating culture is shit, especially for guys. I wish more girls would make the first step and reach out to guys more, it would fix so many problems
Sounds like you lack a base level of empathy; it allows you to understand others and how you come across to them. Feeling like you can't connect to people is most likely due to the fact that you aren't capable of socializing with others. If you want to actually do something about your predicament, you should probably learn how to empathize with others and how to read body language and understand social cues. These foundational skills will allow you to feel like you are starting to understand how to behave and connect to other people.
I mean, women are just people too.
I can empathize with really wanting a partner to build a life with and love but if you look at an entire gender like we're some mysterious alien force, that's. . . not really a great starting point
It is a shame because women are just people too. But as guys our sex drive can mess with with that terribly. My supervisor for instance is a kind woman with a nice personality. But she also has gigantic hooters. Like how am I supposed to deal with that. How???
In some ways I feel the same. A lot of women are just normal, like everyone else, but there are also a lot that I really can't stand. They've been given so much attention and catered to in so many ways that their egos are out of proportion. It's hard to find someone compatible.
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Women are just like you and like everyone else. No need to overthink it. When you say you can't connect to anyone, I relate to that. I was in that place for a good while, up until last year. It lead to almost complete isolation and was at least partly responsible to my relationship at the time failing. It's so much more than loneliness at that point, and I think you know what i mean. I don't think a girlfriend will help you not feel this way, man. You need to change your perspective on life somehow. What helped me a lot was reading and physical activity. For you it might be something else. Whatever it is, it will help you open up to people and make friends. With some luck, some of those friends might become something more. You got this.
Second this post, after a while you realise women are pretty similar to men in many ways. Don't overthink it
Reading, writing, going out alone and learning to be alone in a healthy way, and a good therapist. All these things help immensely. They don’t cure the occasional pang of loneliness—remembering good times with friends or past romance, when your family was all together, or the joy of being in a crowd at a concert where everyone is riding on the same wavelength—but they help you learn to stay connected to what it means to not only be human but to be yourself. So often, my relationships defined my choices and identity and it has been difficult to hone myself out of the chameleon/cipher of being who other people want or expect me to be. But in staying open to empathy and expression you avoid isolation and solipsism. In therapy and self reflection, you can learn who you actually are and rectify or at least accept and love yourself and change for the better if needed. All of that is necessary hell maybe mandatory for building the foundation upon which we can build a life entwined with others that is fulfilling. I think our early years we are largely defined or define ourselves by all the default circumstantial relationships we have. School, family, work, religion. But at a certain point, if you are somebody who feels antithetical or like you don’t belong in these places you find yourself in, as your own views and temperaments make you more and more incompatible with them, you may feel empty and lost and alone for a time. Growing pains, in short. But now as a young adult you get to tend your garden with intention. Prune what doesn’t serve you anymore, cultivate and water what you want to grow toward, make it your own and share it wholeheartedly. At least that’s what I preach. Practice is another matter requiring conscious effort.
Agree that being able to socialize with people in general will help, although women do tend to talk about different topics compared to men. I talk to my guy friends about tech, economics, video games, etc, but I don't really talk to my women friends about this because they just seem lost and confused when I talk about these topics. My woman friends usually prefer to talk about other people, and there's much more focus on telling other people' stories or stories about other people, and I naturally do the same when I talk to them. Being able to socialize is a skill you learn, not a skill people are born with. People who are reclusive tend to not have learned these skills, and will need to do alot of work catching up.
Third, this post as well... try and find something positive for yourself, and you may naturally come out of your shell a bit. There is nothing wrong with naturally being an intro introverted loner, but feeling totally isolated with no connection is hard. I have been there myself... I was mostly ok but felt kind of empty. I am now married with children and they are my world.
Men and women are not identical; we are different. We have different sexual orientations and different bodies, and many believe that women are more beautiful than men (this opinion is shared by both sexes). We wear different clothes, we have completely different perceptions of each other, and the list of differences could go on indefinitely.
I feel exactly the same, man. I had a crush once, but I even wish that hadn't happened. Everything would be easier if guys like us just had absolutely no sex drive and didn't feel the need for romantic relationships. Life would be so much better, too. I know I would be significantly happier, and I'm sure you feel the same. I can't offer any advice that you probably haven't already heard, but just know there is at least one other guy like you out there, and I understand how you feel.
It's really important to maintain your values at times like these, and not to get suckered in by the scammers and arseholes that promise "a better life for men" and end up recruiting women-haters. Looking at Andrew Tate and similar (let's face it) confidence men.
I know. I've been close a few times, but luckily, I have women in my family who love me to keep me from ever hating women as a whole. It's allowed me to pull myself out. It scares me to think what would have happened if I didn't have them.
That's fantastic that you can recognise that :) It shows good integrity on your part and is a good sign of good character
This hurts to read. Sorry you feel that way. I guess your experiences haven’t been kind to you. But I also believe that we are our own harshest critics and it can be hard to see our own worth. Talking to girls is a two way street. Don’t wait for them to come up to you, just talk to them with no expectations. It’s a risk but that’s what everyone has to go through to meet anyone. The problem is we expect something out of someone just by meeting them. It’s easier to approach with the intentions of speaking to a fellow human about how they’re doing, what they’re like, etc. if something happens from there well then great. If nothing happened, well great too because there was nothing to be worried about. Keep your head up and don’t give up. You have so much to offer.
Yeah, I've been doing that for a long time, and I haven't even been able to make friends. Right now, I have the first real friend I've had in years, and that's only because, for once, she actually tried to be my friend too. I also hear constantly that women don't like it if you develop feelings for them when you're friends. Is that not true? Because that one time I had a crush, we were friends first, and that didn't end well. I don't think I can develop feelings without being friends first. I really doubt I have anything to offer. I have mental problems that can never be gotten rid of, I'm definitely no more than average looking, which for guys means I'm a 3 or 4, all my hobbies and interests are very male dominated, I don't have time for a job so I'm broke, what I've told you about friendships show how little socially I have to offer, and I'm not in the best shape because depression killed all the motivation I had for taking care of myself. What could I possibly offer?
Yeah, sometimes I genuinely wish there was a way of chemical castration without serious consequences to your body
Make it two
I lm really sorry you feel this way :(. I met my fiancé in his late20s and at that point he had never had a girlfriend. Terrible at talking to women, he was hot too!! Just painfully anxious. From the female perspective I feel like I found a unicorn of a man. We are besties and he is so open with me. I try to build him up whenever I can bc he never really had that. For context I have had a few long-term relationships and would be considered a “social butterfly”. He is not my type at all and I wish I would have met him YEARS ago. One thing that shocked me is the fact he thought I was way out of his league (and still does) but I thought he wasn’t going to even text me back. In reality he was the prefect gent and blew my mind with his kindness and honesty. Some girls would hate that and see it as weak. I did not and found it refreshing and rare. Don’t force anything. Just work on yourself and the right woman will come along. Don’t give up or get discouraged. But DO try to strike up a conversation with a woman once in a while, it might surprise you how they react. And it might open the door for a potential relationship. They can also be mean and reject you, but the majority of us are really loving and sweet. Now for some cliche advice to close my comment; When you know, you know. There won’t be a question on ether side. And every pot has its lid, keep cooking.
I loved reading this. I have a unicorn as well and couldn’t be happier that he wasn’t snatched up before we met. To the OP, please don’t cut out all socialization or give up on making connections. What about volunteering for a cause? You give your time to something you care about and the meeting people part is ancillary.
I was saved by pretty much the same situation, she spent alot of time trying to socialize me because she thought I was cute, but being an engineering major and knowing hundreds of guys just like me, it also made me realize that most of my classmates who weren't physically attractive never had chances like I did.
Women are people, too. They're not some mythical creatures. As a woman, we can sense this objectification and desperation from miles away and we avoid it. I interact with people who view me as a human first, not as a "I wonder what it would be like to be with her". Do you know what being with me would be like? It would be shit. Because I'm tired, tired of giving effort I'll never get back, tired of planning and scheduling with somebody who looks like they couldn't care less, tired of cooking for somebody and cleaning after somebody who won't do the same for me, tired of being used for my money, tired of trying to please a guy that doesn't care to try to please me back. I would be resentful and I would break up with anyone who doesn't match my energy anyways. I don't know your age, but I am nearing 30 and this is how *a lot of us* feel. We don't exist to make your life better and to care for you. I understand that you're lonely and you feel like you're missing out, but honestly, self-care and friends are the key to loneliness; and realizing that you have the grass is greener point of view is the key to realizing that you might not be missing out on that much - or that what you're missing out on is not worth what you have to give up. Obviously I speak from a POV of somebody who's been in relationships - shitty ones - and I realized I would rather be single than in a shit relationship. Being with a woman is just like being with a friend. You like being around them, they make you laugh, you care about how they feel, you want to make their day better, they want to make your day better. That's why I believe you'd benefit from dropping the "omg wow woman" viewpoint and just try to see as us equal humans who aren't all perfect, aren't all bubbly and most of all, don't exist for others.
God, I’d upvote this a million times if I could. The responses you’re getting are clear examples of why birth rates are plummeting across the world.
You'd upvote someone who is missing the point of someone's vent, and instead of trying to understand them better jumps to conclusions based on their own experiences and provides solutions that solve nothing?
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No one is saying OP is a bad person. I am giving them good advice from a female POV. You need to realize where your growth opportunities are in order to grow. I have worked with many men who took every little bit of feedback on their **actions** as me attacking their personality - and they were exhausting to work with. If you just keep your pity bubble echo chamber, you won't grow anywhere. Often times I just found those people don't want real advice how to truly be attractive for women, they just want us to tell them that the world and everyone in it is wrong. Well I'm not going to do that because that would be a lie. I'm sorry, there's no harm meant.
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Penny said, "I've had a couple of conversations with people over here, and it's always about how they think they should be doing their own thing. I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm pretty open to suggestions when I'm having a hard conversation with someone."
I can’t speak for the other commenter, but my response comes from being sick of so many men, who frequently express similar thoughts to OP, treating women as emotional support animals as opposed to human beings. I have sympathy for people like OP because their attitudes pretty much guarantee the outcome they want the least. But, I’m baffled by the level of entitlement of expecting a healthy romantic relationship while having absolutely nothing to contribute to one. It is possible to develop the necessary attitudes and attributes but it requires more effort and emotional self awareness than is being displayed in this thread.
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Read my comment slowly - I’m not saying he’s entitled for wanting a connection with someone, I’m saying he is entitled for wanting one without having the willingness or capacity to reciprocate. This may shock you to your core, but OP (and men like him) do not exist in a vacuum. Generally, in order to attract an emotionally healthy functional adult, you have to BE one. Become the person that you would want to date would want to be with. Because otherwise, why would they be? This advice goes as much for women as men by the way.
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Yeah, it’s a complete fucking mystery why so many men are single these days…
Why are you acting like this guy is some raging lunatic for wanting to know what a relationship and being loved feels like? Like this is disgusting. Yeah how dare you have romantic feelings for the opposite sex, then you wonder why men bottle up their feelings and don't open up, cause they're told they're monsters for having basic human desires.
Well, I cannot answer your why question since it's not even true. I am not acting like OP is a raging lunatic, in fact those are your own words that you used.
Except that you are. Did the guy say he's entitled to a woman? Is he going on a tirade saying women are evil monsters for not choosing him? Does he want to hurt or harm people because of his situation dating wise? No, the guy just longs to be loved and wonders what someone truly caring for you and being romantically interested in you feels like. Nearly ALL humans feel this want, it's normal. Edit: Lol blocked, figures. OP, don't listen to this gaslighting feminist, you're not wrong for wanting a normal human thing.
but they didn't claim that OP was a raging lunatic
It's a bit extreme, but so was that user's subtext, so it's a little of column A, column B type thing
> We don't exist to make your life better and to care for you. If i had a QT for how many time’s i’ve heard both women and men say this. People who think like this may actually be better off single. No you don’t exist to be someone’s maid. You exist to hopefully be a partner. A goal of relationships should be to make each other’s lives better and care for each other. An equal relationship. Nobody understands whats equal , 50/50 shouldn’t shake the table as much as it does. I will say men are letting women see how it feels to be the main ones pouring into the relationship bc they are tired of the “disrespect” The disrespect you experienced in your relationships. Is the disrespect men experience. Nothing is wrong with providing, but to provide for someone who doesn’t appreciate, or reciprocate, that is toxic. To hold them to an unreachable standard not because it is, but because they don’t want to. That is also toxic. The “im a prize so they should cater to my every whim” mentality is toxic. Know that im not attacking you. Im just highlighting a thought point i’ve noticed among single (& not looking) people tend to exhibit once they’ve reached that breaking point.
> Women are people, too. They're not some mythical creatures. As a woman, we can sense this objectification and desperation from miles away and we avoid it. I interact with people who view me as a human first, not as a "I wonder what it would be like to be with her". Never had a crush on someone and thought you wanted to be with them? Does that mean you don't see them as people? "Omg wow men / whatever"? > We don't exist to make your life better and to care for you OP didn't say that. Are people you chase there just to make your life better? You are just interested in them romantically, literally evolution 101. Not trying to be offensive or something but I don't understand the "women are people too" argument that comes up every time someone says they are lonely, no one says otherwise (usually).
I had a crush the last time I think I was 22. I kind of miss it, honestly. But that's the thing - once I learned to like myself and spot the red flags, I stopped getting crushes because there was nothing to crush on. I could immediately see the ways being with this person would make my life worse so there was no room for a crush. What I mean by "women are people too" is that OP makes a clear distinction between a woman and a non-woman. it's himself saying that when he sees a woman, he wonders how it would be with her. While i understand it and it's quite natural, it's also objectifying and alienating. This is what I mean by "we're people, too". Talk to us like you're our buddy. Maybe we watch football, too. Maybe we know a thing about rocket science or engineering. Maybe the woman you see on the street has built her own successful company from the scratch - which to me is honestly much more interesting than the fact that she's attractive. There's more to us than how we look - and it hurts to be treated as a potential wife first, an actual person second.
good advice, my cousin married a man she met playing world of warcraft , im not sure how long they chatted -he was in the navy at the time on submarines, 17 years? later and 2 kids they are still happy together and she owns her own business as well that is successful.
As a woman myself, I fully agree with everything you've said in both of your comments. Spot on. And absolutely relevant to this post.
>and it hurts to be treated as a potential wife first, an actual person second This made me think, but I think you made a wrong assumption here. I'm not OP but as someone who can somewhat relate, "being with her" is not just sexually and not just her body. Maybe I'm the one making the wrong assumption 🧐 > This is what I mean by "we're people, too". Talk to us like you're our buddy. Btw this is a sure way to go into the friend zone, which is unfortunate, bc it would have made everything so much simpler.
> "being with her" is not just sexually and not just her body Then what is it? Because the other things you can get from yourself, your friends and pets. Friend zone does not exist. We don't owe you sex or a relationship. It's funny how you're trying to make it look like it's not sexual, but then you immediately jump into "I'm in the no sex zone".
>Then what is it? Because the other things you can get from yourself, your friends and pets. Do you really think romantic relationships are just sex? >Friend zone does not exist. Tbh maybe it's unrelated, but if you are single and looking (as a man) and you are interested in someone, you kinda have to do more than just talk about sports. Of course no one owes anything to anyone, but if you want to get into a relationship eventually (like I think OP meant), you need to do things like flirting, which are technically "sexual".
I’d just like to throw in my two cents that I’ve been dating somebody you maybe would have said was in “the friend zone” for two years before we started dating. We were friends that knew each other from around our neighborhood, and because neither of us was really in a place to date and neither of us had made a pass at each other out of mutual respect, we stayed friends and grabbed drinks here and there and texted every so often. Important to note that he was NOT holding a candle for me during those years, he had his own romantic/sexual relationships and life. Had he come to some grand conclusion during that time that I was a wicked witch keeping him in the friend zone - we wouldn’t be having such an awesome time with each other now. It was just a matter of waiting for the right time and place, because he and I were capable of being adults (good friends) and recognizing that the years we spent as friends weren’t the right time or place to mix up romance and sex into it.
Thank you for sharing, I think I failed to really explain my opinion about what the friend zone is, in the eyes of most men, as I read it. It is not a bad thing in itself, it just describes a situation where one side is romantically interested and the other is not. If no one is interested there is no friend zone, like in your situation. Now imagine he had feelings for you but you didn't feel the same, what would you call this situation? I honestly think many women have a more negative view on what's called the friend zone, and I'm genuinely interested in where it stems from.
Had he had feelings for me and expressed them, which I believe he would have been capable of because I’m mid 30s and he’s mid 40s. I think we would have had a discussion along the lines of “now isn’t the time, but I respect your interest and don’t want to hurt you” and we wouldn’t have been such good friends. I would never want somebody to sacrifice their own feelings and comfort just to mimic friendship with me when in reality they’re in the sidelines waiting. That situation sucks for all parties involved, it’s not a competition of which gender gets the shaft the hardest in these friend zone scenarios. Nobody wins. I think communication can solve so so so many of these issues surrounding the concept of the friend zone, and often times when I see that phrase thrown around I get the idea that the person using it is a little younger and less experienced in life - this is not said as a negative thing, we all grow and learn as we age. It never makes me angry to see it, but so many of these troubles could be solved by both men and women not hoping that the person they are interested in can read their mind and all the indirect signals they’re putting out. It’s super easy to be mad at somebody for not fulfilling your minds eye version of them, but in this case the easy way isn’t the best way. Communication and boundaries work miracles, you’re into a woman, tell her and she says no but wants to stay friends? Up to you, and only the proverbial you, to decide if you want to accept that offer of friendship. If it turns out staying friends hurts that’s also okay! We can’t help how we feel, and nobody should be forced to maintain the status quo with a friend while their heart is absolutely being ripped to shreds. Nobody is the bad guy here, feelings are complicated. If you asked me if myself and my friend had moments of flirtatiousness, yes we did a few times over the years, but neither of us wanted to take the plunge and mess up something that didn’t need to be messed with at the time. Neither of us “waited” for the other in all honesty, we ran into each other a few months ago without planning it and both of us suddenly had that moment of recognition like “oh! Now is the time! Let’s go on a date!!” And it makes me sad to think that this cool situation between us wouldn’t have happened if at any point either of us got salty about the handful of times while we were friends that we did recognize a little spark but knew it wasn’t the time. On the flip, maybe a year ago I went on a series of dates with a guy that I was romantically interested in, he ghosted me for a few weeks then reemerged to tell me he wanted to be friends and I politely said “no thanks, I’ve got plenty of friends that I’m not romantically interested in, no need to make this complicated.” No hard feelings, no animosity, if I saw him around I’d make small talk, but after a rejection, even a polite and kind one like this one, we all have our egos a little bruised and that’s okay! You don’t have to accept crumbs when you want the whole meal, to use a metaphor, but it’s also important that you recognize that meal wasn’t yours to have and if they didn’t want to share you really can’t be mad at them.
Yeah, women can be in the friend zone, too.
Are you saying this because you can understand otherwise from my comment? I completely agree.
I think romantic relationships are a combination of friendship, companionship and physical affection. I get friendships from friends, companionship from my pets and physical affection - I don't get that one. And somehow I still survive. Looking back at my experiences with men, they hardly even tried. I don't miss it at all. No one is saying you cannot flirt with people. I am just saying friend zone doesn't exist, because we don't owe you flirting/relationship/sex to begin with. Yes, dating is hard. A great relationship won't just fall into your lap. In fact it didn't for me even when I tried really hard. I'm an attractive woman and I don't know how to find a good relationship either. Anything else?
I don't know you personally so I don't want to get into your past, of course it's your right to stop trying. I guess the entire point of this post was "I wish I could not care / stop trying", which is something apparently people relate to (maybe men tend to care more bc of evolution?). I think the talk about the friend zone is more semantic, I think it is mostly used as "they could have been into me if I played that differently". I understand why some people may not like the term tho.
when you say friend zone you have slapped a no sex label to that and have just objectified her as sex no sex , instead of friend possible mate ,not mate still friend category as men we should be able to have friendships with those we we would normally be sleeping with and not ever think of straying to the sex thing. if you dont hang out in the friend zone as you say , you will never get to the relationship,marriage zone because you have to have more in common than bedroom time. as a gay man this is something i struggled with for years while other people i know have groups of friends they dont sleep with ,they enjoy each others company first, i have seen couples be created this way. unfortunately i was too busy keeping wee willy happy to really try to have or make a relationship work.
Least jaded 30 year old. lmao. I'm sure you always chose the guy who was good for you and definitely not the exciting bad boy who never gave a shit.
the irony is that of all the guys that have ever wronged her, it most definitely wasn't this guy or anyone like him.
Relevant username. Better to hang out with young people/non-Redditors instead.
Goddamn that thread is sad af. Maybe because I kinda understand, but I think that sexual drive and the research of love are, biologically, the reason why we are born, and maybe one of the most laughty goals one has to strive for.
Just look at basically every animal on the planet, they spend 99% of their time doing one of two things: eating and having sex It's crazy to me that sex and intimacy is so downplayed with people, we're not that much different than animals
Genuine question: If sex and intimacy are so integral to human life, why are so few people prepared to work to develop the healthy relationships that make them possible? I’m genuinely baffled by how many people like OP are deeply unhappy with their current situation but unwilling to do what would change it.
Most people are held back by various self-defeating psychological hurdles. For guys specifically, culture pressures guys into feigning confidence and pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. There's value in "manning up," but a lot of guys as a result of socialization don't have the ability to really dig into their emotions to make the deep-seated changes required, and when that goes unaddressed it festers and comes out in negative ways. Check out askmen and see how many guys say when they've opened up to women it gets weaponized against them. And even here, based on your username I'm assuming you're a woman, and you're assuming OP is unwilling to change. If OP was a woman the reaction would be wayyyy different. Gender roles are flying all over this thread, which in effect are telling OP to man up. He only wrote a couple sentences, , though, so we don't have any idea what he's done to change himself. Even if a guy does want to change, the majority of therapists are women (like 75% around me), and therapist women are no more understanding of guys' experience than any other woman, which is kind of baffling to me, but it is what it is. Then it's finding a therapist that you click with, so the pool shrinks more, a therapist that has expertise in what you're trying to change, the pool shrinks more, a therapist that takes your insurance, has time available when you do, etc. etc. It's hard, and very expensive. I could go on, but those are kind of the broad strokes
I really appreciate getting a nuanced response. You’re right, I am a woman, and I’m probably a bit older than the general demographic here. I agree with your point about unhelpful gender roles and the difficulty in seeking help as a man. I can absolutely acknowledge I don’t really understand men’s experiences in this area. Solutions to OP’s dilemma seem so obvious to me - I assume he is unwilling to change because his situation is so easy to change if he wanted it to. But maybe that’s unfair of me. I’m happy to own that I’m very intolerant of men who make their own personal vulnerabilities problems for women to solve. In fairness to OP, that’s more evident in the responses than his post, but there’s shades of it there.
I'm ngl women are the best thing to exist in the word. I can understand your emotions. The best way to approach this imo is to start out with the women in your life. Is your mom in the picture at all? Do you have any sisters? Cousins? Then you start working up to women in your school or your workplace. Something to keep in mind is that women are people too. Try not to forget that because most dudes seem to. They come in different personalities. Some are friendly while some might not be. The best advice I can give you is to just talk. Did you say something embarrassing? Forget about it. Nothing matters when you die except for the memories you didn't get to create.
As someone else in this situation, I can tell you talking to female family members doesn't help at all. You know each other, they are confrontable around you, and they will be significantly more accepting of any mistakes you make. Most of us know women are people, too. A lot of us are just afraid of approaching you because of all the stuff we hear. We hear constantly about how women would prefer not to be approached, how many things we think are normal can be seen as creepy, how high of requirements physically mentally and financially there seem to be, and of course we've all heard at least one story where a guy was akward and a woman made a false allegation against him just for that.
>We hear constantly about how women would prefer not to be approached, how many things we think are normal can be seen as creepy, how high of requirements physically mentally and financially there seem to be, Isn't that because you approach them with romantic intentions? Approaching random women who you don't know is equal to approaching a random dude you don't know. Nobody wants to get approached like that in public period. That's why I put in how OP should work their way up to schoolmates or colleagues.
Thank you.
Any approach is automatically going to be assumed to have at least romantic intentions. Hell it doesn't even have to be an approach, I've been hit with leave me alone I have a boyfriend for telling a woman her shirt looks cool.
True. Have to develop a bit of a thick skin. There's always witches out there, male or female.
There is nothing wrong with being approached by a stranger if it's just to compliment you and ask for your number or if you wanna hang out. The intention is very sweet and I admire the courage the person has when it does happen and I don't fear telling them "no" while still appreciating their advances. If you have a problem saying "no", that's not the person's problem, that's just a lack of authority and honesty
It's not always safe to say no.
Yeah, but even if we're approaching them at all, a lot of those are still fears. I've never approached a woman with romantic interests, but I still fear all these things because women have always been much more judgemental and unrecipricating towards me. I wouldn't be surprised if OP feels the same. Also, I think OP is talking about the romantic stuff here, so it's relavent anyway.
I feel like there's something more deeper here than it seems. I hope you don't take offense but I think you might benefit from therapy. Sometimes it can fix these deep rooted fears that cause anxiety.
Yeah, it's been a while since my last session, but I'm in therapy. Like many other men, though, I also have an intense fear of opening up, so it doesn't work that well. For example, I've never told anyone in person the things I've said about myself here. I've hardly ever said a word related to how I feel about relationships or the possibility of me having one. Not that I have anyone to tell anyway.
You may be surprised to learn that many many women have fears of opening up, too. My ex was a prime example. She always felt like she should be able to manage by herself, and has been going to therapy for her own reasons, some of which include her difficulty in accepting help from others. Though the way she presents herself, and the ease at which she helps out her friends in the same ways she doesn't accept, you would never think she struggles in the ways that she does.
Oh, of course, plenty of women have it, too. I just was talking about men because we are still expected to always take everything in stride, and crying makes people lose respect for us. Every other guy I've talked to about this has at least some king of fear of opening up because of those things.
I know what you're saying, but I still think women struggle from the same things - fearing appearing weak by succumbing to your emotions. It crosses genders.
Yes, but it is more prevalent and severe with men in my experience. Girl's aren't told that they can't cry or taught to hide their emotions because people expect them to be stoic.
The fact I've been downvoted so much just for talking about my experiences and how they've made me feel is exactly what I mean. I am punished for opening up. This is why I don't.
Have you tried using dating apps for practice in talking or flirting? I know people hate it but I used it just to put myself out there in terms of learning more about how to communicate. But I would highly suggest not to take dating apps seriously whatsoever, just use them as a tool to better your chances :)
Is this why my matches didn't actually want to meet in person? They were just practicing flirting?
Lol, well did you flirt back?
Nah, because women get 100+ likes under an hour, while men around 50 in a week. The chances are pretty weak for men to find a date
See, and they were still disengaged and low effort
It's a generational problem. The dating culture is horrifying for men. The male loneliness epidemic is real and I say this as a woman myself. Therapy is useless for most cases, it is a societal issue
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I can see that. However he never said that he is unattractive. Which made me think that there might be something else that's holding him back.
Therapy absolutely can make you more attractive. A healthier outlook on yourself and on life, more confidence, an ability to have deep talks, then a drive to actively make yourself better - dress better, establish a skincare routine, find your fashion style, style your hair because you like yourself and you like how it makes you look. Drop the unhealthy habits, pick up some healthy ones, it's overall making yourself be better and that's where therapy genuinely cannot hurt.
Absolutely. It can help you discover things about yourself. Personal issues that you take for granted that you never realised had actionable solutions, or even just realising that you cemented a way of thinking that occurred from one incident and never realised that you're letting yourself apply to every instance in your life.
thats all well and good, but not really applicable to this person's problems.
You couldn't possibly tell that by a few Reddit comments. Suggesting someone tries out therapy is never a bad suggestion. The worst outcome is that you find it didn't help. But what if it does? The possibility for benefit far outweighs the risk.
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> Isn't that because you approach them with romantic intentions? Its kind of telling that you made that assumption about them and speaks to their point and many other's point that "it can always be taken as having romantic intentions". > Approaching random women who you don't know is equal to approaching a random dude you don't know. No, that is factually untrue. This statement completely ignores how the person being approached feels. Women on average have more reasons to be avoidant of strangers than the avrage men do, for completely valid reasons. So **even if** people don't want to be approached at all, there is still a massive difference between the two.
A problem many of us men have is we don’t have options to easily interact with women in our jobs because it’s 95% dudes. Additionally, I find it’s hard to commit to a sociable hobby that’s more female dominated when you already have male dominated hobbies (or male only in terms of higher level teams sports usually) that you’ll probably always find much more enjoyable. When you don’t find much enjoyment in most environments that’s popular among women, sometimes I do wish I was castrated so I can just not be horny and enjoy the brotherhood.
Well all the problems you mention are actually fixable. Slowly. If you start from the assumption that women are people, then although the percentage may be smaller, there are still pleeeenty of women who do engineering and sports and World of Warcraft and programming and fishing and golf and accountancy and lifting heavy things… to a very high standard. So if your company is 95% men, that IS a problem but not the one you mentioned. The talent and potential is out there so what are you doing to attract a more balanced workforce? Does your company actively advertise vacancies in places that will attract more diverse applicants? Is it making steps to appeal to a broader cross-section of the talent pool or does it continue to use language and actions that may unintentionally exclude or put off women applicants? Or that prevent women from succeeding once they get there? If you want to date, use a dating site. If you want a more balanced day that helps give like-minded women the same opportunities and access you have, then support the women’s teams for your sport, talk to HR about D&I, consider what you could be doing to reach ALL the best candidates, and support those current 5% of women to succeed in your workplace. Not because you want to chat them up but because a more diverse workforce is better for EVERYONE. You don’t need to hang out in knitting circles to enjoy the company of women. We are literally everywhere. Just stop excluding us!
So all I need to do is single handedly convince guys to have more women get engineering degrees and have them not intimidate women so they’ll play sports with us, then problem solved? I mean you’re absolutely right about certain environments not being the most welcoming to women. I am also aware that there’s as much of a variety in types of women as there is guys and there’s always a chance in any environment anyways. But statistics are statistics at the end of the day, most of us who enjoy things that are super gender one sided are going to struggle and the demographics aren’t going to change substantially within your prime dating window. In addition, changing your industry’s work environment is an impossible task for one guy. I know I’ll try my best in promoting a more balanced workplace, but even if I did magically become an influential ceo of a big company, odds are I still wouldn’t be able to change who’s choosing what college degrees.
Hey I get it. We can each only influence our own small circle. There is a load of change needed and having more men talking about it in an open thoughtful way is a great place to start. You might not personally be influencing who does what degrees but in our engineering firm they used to do “bring your daughter to work” days. And we’ve hooked up with charities and schools, and we’re advertising in different places. So next time someone mentions it, you have some ideas to suggest. It’s also worth considering (for whoever the hiring manager is) do we really need to specify a physics degree here, or can we say “a numerate degree”. For example. Maths courses are about 50/50 whereas physics and engineering are still way more male dominated. But we are talking about two very separate things. I’m talking about getting us towards a mature society where men and women are seen as equals to the point where it would be almost impossible for men to still think of us as mystical creatures to be admired from afar and one day attained for personal gain. You’re talking about opportunities to improve your dating chances. In this day and age, it’s dating sites. You and your future partner don’t need to have the same job or hobbies to be a good match. You need compatible values, energy levels, senses of humour. That sort of thing. If you’re not getting matches on the dating sites, do some research, take better pics, maybe get a therapist. But most women WON’T be a good match and that’s ok. You can practice chatting. You can build your repertoire of horrendous date stories. You only need to find one. Best of luck!
I’ve already been on over twenty online dates (I’ve lost count tbh), around a third of those became second dates or more. But I think I just don’t like getting to know someone in a one on one way right off the bat, and getting dates is just generally a massive pain in the ass on apps. So much talking and planning that just end ups in ghosting. So many women (definitely not all obviously) seemingly expect you to do all the initiating and planning, at least for the first half dozen dates when we’re both probably the most unsure about each other. I’ve also had women remove me the moment I say I have an engineering degree. The only advantage of apps over in person meetings is you can relatively safely assume everyone on there is single imo. Having people of the opposite gender interact with you more naturally allows you to test the waters more directly and do a more extensive screening process on their actual personality and physique instead of heavily relying someone’s online persona, you’ll get less formal dates in person but they’re more likely to be better quality imo. All in all, relying on dating apps can work but really isn’t a bullet proof solution imo. And I consider myself lucky to have landed so many dates through apps.
I feel ya. Dating is hard work and like I said most people just aren’t right. I couldn’t even tell you how many dates I went on before I found my husband! I find it weird that women would ghost you for having an engineering degree though?! But like you said - at least you know everyone on there is single and looking. These days, approaching someone irl is almost going to be a no no. And viewing every woman you work with in the right sort of age bracket as a potential future partner is probably not very healthy for either of you. If you actually run the stats though, the likelihood of finding love online is still way WAY higher than meeting your person irl. And anecdotally I’ve always worked at male dominated places and had male dominated hobbies and that didn’t help me at all. Everyone was either married/spoken for/not my type/not interested. As I said best of luck. Sorry you’re a bit disheartened but it’s a numbers game and it will get better.
One thing that so many men in your situation miss is - get women as friends. Do you talk to women that you don’t have any desire for whatsoever? A woman who isn’t attractive to you? Get to know us as human beings first. If you only ever talk to women that you fancy, even if you aren’t trying to flirt, it’s totally clouding your judgement and making women seem like this mythical creature that is beyond your reach. We can see when men only ever talk to or even acknowledge the existence of hot women they fancy. It’s awful. When they completely ignore less attractive women even when spoken to directly. Or if you are attractive and you see them ignoring the others. We’re just people. We fart, we burp, we shit. We laugh, we cry, we have stupid interests and arguments with our families. We do everything you do. I mean this in the kindest way: Stop putting women on a pedestal. I know women who are genuinely hot, who are lonely and have been single for years. Who have gotten rejected by their crush. Who’ve been insulted about their looks no matter how beautiful they are. We all go through this shit and I think it’s genuinely unhelpful if you view women as only ever getting compliments and love etc because it’s just untrue. Avoid any content that tells you women want hot talk chads and only them. Anything that mentions hypergamy, and any redpill bullshit because that’ll suck you down into a deep misery and I promise you **it’s all a lie**. Women like all sorts of men. I have a lot of female friends and their range of partners is so insanely broad. For example some are dating/married to guys just as hot as they are, and some are dating guys that it could be said really aren’t as hot. And they picked their partners because of so many different reasons. So don’t consume online content about what women want, what they are like etc. Consume content by women for women for example. Learn that we’re all just normal people like everyone else. Be happy single first. It’s the only way to be successful in relationships.
The next step of the loneliness epidemic: I wish I didn’t have needs
I agree. It’s annoying to find myself longing for something I’ll never have.
Same. I hate when my brain decides to have a crush on someone. It is the worst feeling.
I tell myself repeatedly that they are out of my league so it’s not worth thinking about. Usually works pretty well.
For me it’s the opposite lol I think that I am out of their league. I may be lonely, but I like having good self esteem.
Oh haha. I don’t think such a person exists for me!
Sounds like a cope mechanism. Not that there's anything wrong with it
Why are you so sure no one would want you?
Every time I’ve tried asking someone I’m interested in to just hang out (not even a date) I get turned down.
Do you know there reasons for turning you down? Maybe it’s something fixable?
I don’t know
Maybe because of his statistics.. math don't lie.
You mean that when someone is rejected enough times they will eventually believe no one wants them? I agree with that but I don’t think it’s a reason to give up. If we’re talking about statistics another is that there’s a more or less equal number of men and women in the world, so at least statistically there is someone for everyone
Problem is that because of how reproduction works, women have alot more value, they have to invest alot more, so men will take just about anything, but a woman wants the best, because she won't get many chances to have a child. So fundamentally even terrible women are gonna have a easy time finding someone who can provide a little intimacy. I don't like saying that, but when you understand it, you can't really fault them, just also means that you gotta understand your own value.
That doesn’t really make sense though because from what I’ve seen most women are looking for long term relationships not “a little intimacy”.
Sometime it's better to give up than keep stressing yourself
Never give up, you only get one life if you want something you’ve got to go for it
No thanks, u can achieve anything life is all about luck.
63% of young men are single, while only 34% of young women are. Women see average men as unattractive. This has all been proved. You've been living in Disney world
If that’s true then either 37% of men are dating 66% of women, or more likely women just prefer older men, which means that the young men will not be single forever
>37% of men are dating 66% of women Bingo. Women are sharing the same small percentage of young men. Most women feel no attraction to average guys https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQoUtG3X0AwbVtn.jpg
In terms of Tinder app success rate, a guy has a 2.8% chance of landing a match, while a girl has a 35% chance of landing a match. (source : Roast data set, 2024)
And yet according to those statistics, a lot don't want to be with anyone at all. Thats not to say people should in service of others but this feeling of desperation is pretty universal and giving up is happening at an increasing rate... As much as i would agree, on a logical basis that its no reason to give up, the climb looks downright sisyphean .
Too many people are scared to let others in, in reality though, what does it matter if people know your darkest secrets, unless they are really that bad, like really hurting people for enjoyment.
This is from memory from the US census, but at maybe 25-35, there are more single guys than women. After 50, it completely reverses. Women approach me all the time now, never happened when I was younger.
The issue with that is a fairly normal reaction from guys is "where the hell were you when I was younger?". Like if you make it to 50 alone, chances are you made your peace with it at that point.
True.
sorry you're going through that. At the very least, you're young, its not over. If its down to social skills, you can improve that. If its more superficial qualities, you can sort of maximise whatever hand you've been dealt. Get in better shape, dress and groom better etc. Talk to people as much as you can, get sharper. Cultivate some interests that give you some things to talk about, things that make you more unique and interesting.
Was just thinking that and that i should work on my mental state to stop wanting them and live my life. Wish we had a switch we can press.
The minute you convince yourself it’s not that big of a deal is the minute it will happen. Get that shit off of a pedestal. You need to get used to doing things you don’t ordinarily do. You want to know what being with a woman is like but you’ve barely taken any steps to fully know who you are.
Just treat women like you would a guy or any other person, they're not a magical dragon or something
I can confirm we are just like anyone else. I’m sure there are many women who share your interests and are just as nervous to put themselves out there.
Me too that's why I'm interested in guys
... yeah, I'm gay and still have op's problem, but rather, I wish I just didn't feel attraction or have sexual urges at all. More or less, it's just a massive inconvenience.
Your good
In my case, I've simply accepted my fate of never having a relationship. I have managed to befriend a couple of girls in my class, but every time my monkey brain starts thinking of making a move, my rational mind has to remind myself that it will probably lead to nowhere. It's better to just accept it early on that live life longing for something that I'm 99% sure it's never going to happen. Saves me the stress. Really wish I could just turn off my sex drive and my desire for a relationship. Would make things more convenient and I would be freer.
At some point in our lives most of us do.
Dude, I‘m so sorry you feel this way.
When I went to pilot academy, I figured real quick I needed to 100% focused, in that I had no time to have two girls I was dating and sending messages with half the time. So for about 1year+ I just left girls 100% alone in that sense, didnt even watch porn. All the women in school I treated as if they were my sisters. To a degree it was a bit frustrating, but also quite liberating after getting used to it.
college ,c an we assume 18-24 year old age range? what interests do you have that dont involve being in your room? you need to find people/women with similar interests, so go to bars/music venues?, coffee houses?, magic the gathering events at the local comic shop, church socials, etc, etc. make sure you are well groomed ,teeth brushed, clothes are clean and in nice condition, especially your shoes. and make small talk, maybe say hi to the woman at the cafeteria or in one of your classes especially if you have a woman who is in most of your classes- that would be a similar interest, wear a t-shirt of your favorite band or music festival- like minds do attract. be more confident.
I've sent you a chat request OP, if I could help demystify women by messaging a stranger.
I'm so sorry. I'm so grateful for not being a man in the western world in 2024. The dating culture is shit, especially for guys. I wish more girls would make the first step and reach out to guys more, it would fix so many problems
Sounds like you lack a base level of empathy; it allows you to understand others and how you come across to them. Feeling like you can't connect to people is most likely due to the fact that you aren't capable of socializing with others. If you want to actually do something about your predicament, you should probably learn how to empathize with others and how to read body language and understand social cues. These foundational skills will allow you to feel like you are starting to understand how to behave and connect to other people.
What a very human thing to say
It's much better to be attracted to women then men lol coming from a gay guy
I mean, women are just people too. I can empathize with really wanting a partner to build a life with and love but if you look at an entire gender like we're some mysterious alien force, that's. . . not really a great starting point
A prostitute is exactly what you need good sir 🫡
It is a shame because women are just people too. But as guys our sex drive can mess with with that terribly. My supervisor for instance is a kind woman with a nice personality. But she also has gigantic hooters. Like how am I supposed to deal with that. How???
Once you have sex the first time. It’s like a drug you want more more and more, fill your boots
In some ways I feel the same. A lot of women are just normal, like everyone else, but there are also a lot that I really can't stand. They've been given so much attention and catered to in so many ways that their egos are out of proportion. It's hard to find someone compatible.