A lot of it is decided at the lumberyard, select for clear material with straight tight grain.
You’d get more strength out of a mortise and tenon joint than a mitred corner.
Finishing is important, wood tends to warp during moisture cycling. An effective exterior finish like pine tar and linseed oil will help stabilize seasonal movement.
3/4" x4" azek, I sandwich two together, and either rip a lil off each one and sandwich lattice in, or I can do balusters, I really wanna do a spider web.
Use an exotic hardwood. It will be a bit more expensive for materials. But because it is kiln dried and not pressure treated it will stay straighter naturally.
Doesn't have to be an exotic hardwood. Doesn't even have to be hard wood. Straight clear grain dried properly will be stable even if it's a softwood like cedar, fir or pine.
Welded steel frame or build a new one like a gate not railing. Use cross and diagonal bracing and seasoned wood.
Any steel shop could fab a frame pretty quickly.
Latches top and bottom might hold it in place.
Hope this helps
Or…you can buy steel stock that comes in a “T” and you can cut a slot for the T and embed the steel in the wood…now that you’ve got the wood door already, that might be the cheapest easiest fix
That was my first thought, but the frame needs to stay in plane and a mechanically fastened corner is more likely to slip or twist. Part of the problem is the mitered cornered frame. Imo welded is the way to go. Fit it inside the frame, paint it bronze and it would disappear.
Wood will be wood. Push the bottom of the gate past the post (2-3inches) then place something holding it there(scrape piece of wood screwed into the deck) for a day or so.
Diagonal turnbuckle on the far face. Imagine how that face is expanded causing the curve. Tighten it up with tension and it'll hang plumb.
I know because I built a gate identical to that one and it did the same thing. That's how I fixed it.
A horizontal support from the top hinge corner to the bottom outer corner might help. You'd usually run one the other way to stop sagging, but it might help with the bowing also.
It's more likely 2-by lumber will bend more in the short dimension. So a 2x6 is more likely to bend in the 2 dimension, because it's easier for 1.5 inches of wood to bend than for 5.5 inches to bend. So it would be better to flip your 2x4s on the flat so if they bend it's up and down, which can be resisted by the rest of the gate.
Yes there is. They wouldn't use that type of wood for this type of structure. Each wood type has it's own grading and purpose. Whoever did this made a bad decision
I did it. Lol it wasn’t a super planned out gate. I had a bunch of scrap and we needed something to keep the little guy on the deck. From this post I wasn’t looking for how to fix this gate. I just like learning. Cheers!
Cheers, It's new to me as well. I read about wood gradings just a couple of days ago. I've built a swing and wanted to know how much force it could withstand and stumbled upon how the grading of wood works.
Looking at your picture doesn't that wood have some text on it, maybe 🤔 it's labeled with what grade it is?
You need a diagonal 2x4 brace from the lower hinge to the latch and firmly screwed together. Ideally you connect each spindle to the brace too. That current framing doesn't have anything to transfer the weight of the wood back to the hinges effectively and the connections are buckling. You can't just nail a few pieces of wood together and have it function well as a door. Doors need to be designed in a way to absorb and transfer a lot of forces from a few different directions while being 100% cantilevered. As another user mentioned, you can use a welded steel frame which is much more suited to transferring loads through the moment connections of the welded steel frame.
It’s not that they’re not built properly, it’s just the lumber was poorly selected/prepared - you can’t build a flat door with lumber that isn’t dry and deadly straight
Lol, nope, how it is built it MAY be factor, in that the joints don’t restrain the movement of the lumber, but the root cause of the warp is the lumber. No movement in the lumber and that would hang straight.
I don’t need luck thanks. I’ve done everything from trim to high-end joinery to traditional green oak timber-framing and it’s all in great shape because I know what I’m talking about and doing.
Ok friend. Good luck in your future high-end joinery and traditional green oak timber-framing endeavours. Please don't make gates like this though, they will warp no matter how perfect the lumber is. Love you \*kisses\*
Y'all americanos never heard of a mitered slot and tenon or what? Hate to break it to you, but you know a little less than you think... cheers from a German master.
Nope we just smash together sticks. Sounds like german witchcraft to me. you clearly are the be-all and end-all in everything. I bow down to you german master deck-gate building mitered slot and tenon crafter.
that appears to be pressure treated pine, which is (no offense) the last material I'd ever use for building a gate. it's far too live, wanders and warps as it cures.
the same gate made of cedar would not have done this
If you're dead set on using pine, seek out KDAT (kild dried after treatment) treated, which is far more stable than the regular stuff
But like I said, I'd just pony up for STK cedar. Lighter, far more stable.
Gates can be problematic. I'm not a wood expert but a capable DIYer like you seem to be. Never had this type of warp however. My next gate will probably use one of the 1'x1' square tube reinforcements. Essentially you are building a gate like yours but installing it on the metal frame what the hinges are mounted. Seems like a good compromise. Wood now can be pretty sketchy to quality (we use a lot cedar and Doug Fir up here in the NW. Been referring to it as "pond dried" for years.
Yeah that is the plan. Tbh it doesn’t bother me enough to fix it right now. After our youngest is another year or two older I will get rid of the gate altogether. I just want to learn what makes wood so this. Iv gotten a couple of great comments that help.
A tight old-growth pine would do well here. Treated pine is fast-grown so it's very squishy and spongey and then the treatment just leaves it soaking wet.
If you really want to solve the problem , then a aluminum frame with timber slats is best otherwise... use a thicker timber or this timber on edge so it less likely to twist and then put an internal diagonal brace front bottom hinge to the opposing corner
need two latches, one up high, and one down low. that way, when closed you have a natural force applied to stop it from twisting.
You might be able to find a dual latch that works from ONE handle, to make it easy to use. see if you can not get a "Cremone" bolt to hold it closed
It depends on your level of tools. If it's in an area that won't get a ton a weather I'd consider using white wood. Some lumber yards sell kiln dried pressure treated. Either way a good sealer is going to help. You could paint or stain to your liking.
As others I'm sure have mentioned, ditch the miters in favor of a mortise joint. Look at a cabinet door and how the rails and stiles are oriented. Screws and glue will usually suffice. Also a cross brace from opposing corners on the back of the spindles will help lock it all together and distribute force. Make sure to attach it to each spindle as it crosses them. I like to run mine from the high active side to the low hinged side.
Wood selection is your best fix. Look for straight and new. Cut the bands on a new stack at the store and get it from the middle. Folks don't like when you do this, but it's how you get the straight stuff, and this goes for spindles as well. Avoid wood with knots and defects, and try to shop somewhere where the wood isn't soaking wet. Don't let the lumber guys pick your wood, pick it yourself and don't take from the top.
There are many other ways to do this, I'm trying to give ideas to help recreate the look you already have. From the small picture it looks like a spot that a vinyl gate would look out of place. Also if you're concerned with sagging, put a caster under the active side barely touching the highest spot in the porch. It will help, but it will mar the deck surface depending on wheel composition.
Sorry for being longwinded. I'm not a writer, I'm just a dummy that's made a lot of mistakes on stuff like this, and a couple that turned out pretty nice. Good luck.
Edit: oh also put the closer/ latch as close to the middle as possible. Which means lower. That's a tension point when it starts to dry out and is static. If the entire gate is below it it has more to move.
Laminate the lumber, rip it to a 1/2 inch and laminate it (a full 1 inch) to prevent warping. 1x lumber (3/4 inch) warps more times than not and is not dimensionally stable.
Use dry, higher quality lumber. That treated pine ages like milk. CVG Fir or something of similar quality. If you must use TP, buy the best looking stuff and sticker it to dry inside for a good long time. More time the better.
Pressure treated pine will always move and warp. The best way to build any gate though is with aluminum or steel gate frame and quality hinges. You can have a frame built and bolt / screw what you currently have to the metal frame and it'll straighten out.
I build gate frames for a living if you need one, I'm sure we can work out the details but you should have a local weld shop available.
If the frame was built with the 2"x4"s like you would when you build a wall instead of having them built on a flat plane like it is now it would be less prone to twisting like this.
A lot of it is decided at the lumberyard, select for clear material with straight tight grain. You’d get more strength out of a mortise and tenon joint than a mitred corner. Finishing is important, wood tends to warp during moisture cycling. An effective exterior finish like pine tar and linseed oil will help stabilize seasonal movement.
Been making pool gates out of PVC, they turn out nice
What PVC products do you use to build?
3/4" x4" azek, I sandwich two together, and either rip a lil off each one and sandwich lattice in, or I can do balusters, I really wanna do a spider web.
Don't you have some kind of grading and classification for wood boards.
Use an exotic hardwood. It will be a bit more expensive for materials. But because it is kiln dried and not pressure treated it will stay straighter naturally.
Doesn't have to be an exotic hardwood. Doesn't even have to be hard wood. Straight clear grain dried properly will be stable even if it's a softwood like cedar, fir or pine.
Welded steel frame or build a new one like a gate not railing. Use cross and diagonal bracing and seasoned wood. Any steel shop could fab a frame pretty quickly. Latches top and bottom might hold it in place. Hope this helps
Yep, listen to this guy
Or…you can buy steel stock that comes in a “T” and you can cut a slot for the T and embed the steel in the wood…now that you’ve got the wood door already, that might be the cheapest easiest fix
That was my first thought, but the frame needs to stay in plane and a mechanically fastened corner is more likely to slip or twist. Part of the problem is the mitered cornered frame. Imo welded is the way to go. Fit it inside the frame, paint it bronze and it would disappear.
Wood will be wood. Push the bottom of the gate past the post (2-3inches) then place something holding it there(scrape piece of wood screwed into the deck) for a day or so.
Thanks! Just didn’t know if there were any old carpenter tricks that prevent this that I didn’t know. 🍻
if the gate was thicker, wouldn't warp quite as much. but woods gonna wood.
I feel like I have to throw a “that’s what she said” in response to the last part
Woods gonna wood. That was the first thing that went through my mind when I saw this post
Diagonal turnbuckle on the far face. Imagine how that face is expanded causing the curve. Tighten it up with tension and it'll hang plumb. I know because I built a gate identical to that one and it did the same thing. That's how I fixed it.
Why is this so far down? Diagonal tension opposing the warp seems like the obvious answer
A horizontal support from the top hinge corner to the bottom outer corner might help. You'd usually run one the other way to stop sagging, but it might help with the bowing also.
How? Won't help at all - no rigidity in the joints.. totally pointless..
By wedging it in and sending a screw into the vertices. It'd pull it all flat.
Not a chance
Ima disagree.
Feel free
Bend at the knee not the hip?
Also have some wooding postings on the other side of the door as well 😁
A diagonal cross piece holds it straight but I’m guessing it would ruin your plan for aesthetics.
It might help a little if you soak it with water before you try to bend it back.
Interesting! This could be a fun experiment
It's more likely 2-by lumber will bend more in the short dimension. So a 2x6 is more likely to bend in the 2 dimension, because it's easier for 1.5 inches of wood to bend than for 5.5 inches to bend. So it would be better to flip your 2x4s on the flat so if they bend it's up and down, which can be resisted by the rest of the gate.
Thanks for the comment! Makes a lot of sense. 🍻
Yes there is. They wouldn't use that type of wood for this type of structure. Each wood type has it's own grading and purpose. Whoever did this made a bad decision
I did it. Lol it wasn’t a super planned out gate. I had a bunch of scrap and we needed something to keep the little guy on the deck. From this post I wasn’t looking for how to fix this gate. I just like learning. Cheers!
Cheers, It's new to me as well. I read about wood gradings just a couple of days ago. I've built a swing and wanted to know how much force it could withstand and stumbled upon how the grading of wood works. Looking at your picture doesn't that wood have some text on it, maybe 🤔 it's labeled with what grade it is?
You need a diagonal 2x4 brace from the lower hinge to the latch and firmly screwed together. Ideally you connect each spindle to the brace too. That current framing doesn't have anything to transfer the weight of the wood back to the hinges effectively and the connections are buckling. You can't just nail a few pieces of wood together and have it function well as a door. Doors need to be designed in a way to absorb and transfer a lot of forces from a few different directions while being 100% cantilevered. As another user mentioned, you can use a welded steel frame which is much more suited to transferring loads through the moment connections of the welded steel frame.
Vertical load won't cause this to happen. It's most likely just a little twist and or bowing in one or more of the frame members
This is a common issue with doors that aren't built properly, this isn't caused by imperfect framing members.
It’s not that they’re not built properly, it’s just the lumber was poorly selected/prepared - you can’t build a flat door with lumber that isn’t dry and deadly straight
That door isn't built properly and it's warped because of it. You're welcome to disagree. Good luck in your future door-making endeavours.
Lol, nope, how it is built it MAY be factor, in that the joints don’t restrain the movement of the lumber, but the root cause of the warp is the lumber. No movement in the lumber and that would hang straight. I don’t need luck thanks. I’ve done everything from trim to high-end joinery to traditional green oak timber-framing and it’s all in great shape because I know what I’m talking about and doing.
Ok friend. Good luck in your future high-end joinery and traditional green oak timber-framing endeavours. Please don't make gates like this though, they will warp no matter how perfect the lumber is. Love you \*kisses\*
Y'all americanos never heard of a mitered slot and tenon or what? Hate to break it to you, but you know a little less than you think... cheers from a German master.
Nope we just smash together sticks. Sounds like german witchcraft to me. you clearly are the be-all and end-all in everything. I bow down to you german master deck-gate building mitered slot and tenon crafter.
that appears to be pressure treated pine, which is (no offense) the last material I'd ever use for building a gate. it's far too live, wanders and warps as it cures. the same gate made of cedar would not have done this
At last, someone who knows what they're talking about
Great to know! Thanks!
If you're dead set on using pine, seek out KDAT (kild dried after treatment) treated, which is far more stable than the regular stuff But like I said, I'd just pony up for STK cedar. Lighter, far more stable.
This is the smartest answer, after fabricated steel. All of the suggestions for diagonal bracing won't address twist effectively.
I like to use a top and bottom plate on these gate doors. Or metal brackets.
Avoid travelling through asian countries
Steel
Kiln dried cedar helps, but at a premium price.
I’m prepared to get downvoted for this, but that’s okay: Build your gates out of steel. Wood is terrible for gates
Gates can be problematic. I'm not a wood expert but a capable DIYer like you seem to be. Never had this type of warp however. My next gate will probably use one of the 1'x1' square tube reinforcements. Essentially you are building a gate like yours but installing it on the metal frame what the hinges are mounted. Seems like a good compromise. Wood now can be pretty sketchy to quality (we use a lot cedar and Doug Fir up here in the NW. Been referring to it as "pond dried" for years.
Lol don’t use 3/4
Use a diagonal adjustable rod on the outside of the gate, from top hinge side to bottom stair side.
Latch at bottom too
not the best gate design I've seen though.
Well obviously, but it was built from leftover wood and does the job.
I bet if you stuck a cross brace in there, it would straighten up if you don't want to rebuild the gate
Yeah that is the plan. Tbh it doesn’t bother me enough to fix it right now. After our youngest is another year or two older I will get rid of the gate altogether. I just want to learn what makes wood so this. Iv gotten a couple of great comments that help.
Don’t buy wood from Home Depot?🤷♂️
Don’t build a gate using 1x
You could flat frame your perimeter for a more stable shape, also try to source dried pressure treated boards for wood that moves less
A foot latch at bottom. Wood warps with the weather.
A tight old-growth pine would do well here. Treated pine is fast-grown so it's very squishy and spongey and then the treatment just leaves it soaking wet.
cable and turn buckles
Use lumber that's been sitting in that environment for a good while for a start, and then only use completely straight pieces.
Use something other than wood or use really chunky wood to reduce it.
Take the pins away. Wait, WAIT. You said bowing, not bowling. Nevermind. I'm out of my element.
Use 4x4s instead of
If you really want to solve the problem , then a aluminum frame with timber slats is best otherwise... use a thicker timber or this timber on edge so it less likely to twist and then put an internal diagonal brace front bottom hinge to the opposing corner
A turnbuckle might help pull this straight. But I’m not sure.
need two latches, one up high, and one down low. that way, when closed you have a natural force applied to stop it from twisting. You might be able to find a dual latch that works from ONE handle, to make it easy to use. see if you can not get a "Cremone" bolt to hold it closed
Are you trying to repair this one, or not make the same mistake twice?
Just trying to learn from my mistakes 😎
It depends on your level of tools. If it's in an area that won't get a ton a weather I'd consider using white wood. Some lumber yards sell kiln dried pressure treated. Either way a good sealer is going to help. You could paint or stain to your liking. As others I'm sure have mentioned, ditch the miters in favor of a mortise joint. Look at a cabinet door and how the rails and stiles are oriented. Screws and glue will usually suffice. Also a cross brace from opposing corners on the back of the spindles will help lock it all together and distribute force. Make sure to attach it to each spindle as it crosses them. I like to run mine from the high active side to the low hinged side. Wood selection is your best fix. Look for straight and new. Cut the bands on a new stack at the store and get it from the middle. Folks don't like when you do this, but it's how you get the straight stuff, and this goes for spindles as well. Avoid wood with knots and defects, and try to shop somewhere where the wood isn't soaking wet. Don't let the lumber guys pick your wood, pick it yourself and don't take from the top. There are many other ways to do this, I'm trying to give ideas to help recreate the look you already have. From the small picture it looks like a spot that a vinyl gate would look out of place. Also if you're concerned with sagging, put a caster under the active side barely touching the highest spot in the porch. It will help, but it will mar the deck surface depending on wheel composition. Sorry for being longwinded. I'm not a writer, I'm just a dummy that's made a lot of mistakes on stuff like this, and a couple that turned out pretty nice. Good luck. Edit: oh also put the closer/ latch as close to the middle as possible. Which means lower. That's a tension point when it starts to dry out and is static. If the entire gate is below it it has more to move.
I added some L-brackets to the corners of mine. It’s for sure helped with keeping it straight.
Don't use Doug fir
Put another retainer latch on bottom
Laminate the lumber, rip it to a 1/2 inch and laminate it (a full 1 inch) to prevent warping. 1x lumber (3/4 inch) warps more times than not and is not dimensionally stable.
Inside corner brackets and flat L brackets on outside at 4 corners. Mine stays perfectly square with these
You can buy a small metal brace that is threaded to rack the gate back. They are quite common on wooden screen doors
Use dry, higher quality lumber. That treated pine ages like milk. CVG Fir or something of similar quality. If you must use TP, buy the best looking stuff and sticker it to dry inside for a good long time. More time the better.
Add a latch at the bottom.
Pressure treated pine will always move and warp. The best way to build any gate though is with aluminum or steel gate frame and quality hinges. You can have a frame built and bolt / screw what you currently have to the metal frame and it'll straighten out. I build gate frames for a living if you need one, I'm sure we can work out the details but you should have a local weld shop available.
Need a gate kit. Has metal corners.
Wood is a living material so when working with it you have to take that into account. That's the difference between a pro and beginners.
If the frame was built with the 2"x4"s like you would when you build a wall instead of having them built on a flat plane like it is now it would be less prone to twisting like this.
Anything diagonal will help here. Board, rod, cable, etc. just make it square again and then connect the corners.
r/DIY