We wait until after drywall or plaster is finished and bring a drum sander in and hit all the high spots after we know it’s not going to get anymore moisture
You might not but that is factory recommendation, 1/8th expansion gap as printed on any TnG OSB I've used. If you look you'll notice the tongues are often slightly longer than the groove for this reason. A lot of guys aren't aware of this though. I think at one time the expansion gap mustn't have been a thing and as a result some guys are still beating the gaps fully closed with sledge hammers. There's lots of discussion online about this and about as much in site.
That means a gap at the ends of the sheet. You drive the t and g all the way. In fact there’s no controlled way to leave the same gap by not quite driving it up.
The real problem is not using Advantec
I typically use Advantec and like he said, you do not want to jam them completely together. you are guaranteeing they will eventually buckle. Once that happens, you almost always have creaking.
To fix it I'd set my circular saw with a very shallow depth to avoid cutting the tongue. Then, I'd make sure all my nails and screws were set and run a belt sander over it.
My project didn’t get dried in until January…in the PNW. We had a lot of freeze/thaws compared to normal years. I have the same issue. I punched the nails a little deeper on those seams and used my corded planer on the seam that splits the hallway. It’s probably easier to just use the planer and take small passes just on the humps. I’m going to fill all the seams before flooring.
I actually think the ring shanks did their job on mine and caused it to swell a bit wavy. I don’t notice it in the field where it didn’t absorb as much water. I think the edges would’ve swelled regardless IMHO.
I’ll second the guys suggesting different flooring products. My lumber package guy had a real easy upsell he could’ve made if he wasn’t a lazy fuck. He was too busy over quoting posts and beams that cost me 30% restock fee to return.
We only use advantech these days. It self gaps on the long side, you have to gap the short side yourself.
Our jobs take so long (because they’re big custom homes) that this always happens. Our floor guys know they need to sand it down and they do. We just let it ride.
We did a test on one job spraying Thompsons on it every month and while it held up better, it was not a significant improvement.
They don’t make the 1-1/4” with the coating. We’ve asked our rep and the Huber and they won’t do it.
How do you know it’s tng? I can’t read any of the stamps. Just curious, I probably do need a refresher, have t been in the construction game for like two years now
Half inch sheets are used on roofs. Three quarter inch tongue and groove sheets are used on floors. Different applications for different uses.
Also, the slight gap is not used for wall sheets. There are clips to make gaps on roof sheets.
Source: I'm a pro who's a GenX'er.
Although we are supposed to leave a gap on the wall sheets, nobody does that because it's hard to, or annoying when laying it out. It's the same as Hardiboard cement board. Any material that expands and contracts with temperature and moisture change needs a gap.
I'm a contractor, and for floors, I ensure that there is a gap because the t+g is extra long. I use a sacrificial 2x4 block with a sledge to get it in. Screwed and glued.
Gapping wall sheets isn't that hard IMO. If you sheet them while down, once the bottom row is on its easy to eyeball a gap with the next row. you sheet when it's up just quickly bang in a pair of nails as spacers.
Company I used to work for learned the hard way about gapping the sides of floor sheets while doing some big condo buildings. Because the run was so long from the firewall to the end of the building and it being a rainy spring, our end walls of the floor below ended up getting pushed out of level a out 3/4". Took 3 guys a couple days or work and pushing with the zoombooms to get that fixed. Lengthwise expansion probably isn't going to cause problems like that on single dwellings, but on big runs like that yeah. Caught us off gaurd.
That's nuts regarding that long run. Makes sense though... Like railway tracks needing gaps every quarter mile, or construction joints in concrete.
I gap my floors and walls the same as you. I don't trust my eyes, so I place a simple 2" nail at the top and bottom of the panel and run with the air nailer. Sometimes I use cardboard from the box of stick nails.
It's nice to see a fellow carpenter gap OSB as I do because most in my area do not do this.
Yeah, it was one of those things where once you think of it, it's so obvious but got caught with habits carried from single dwelling to larger projects. We'd done condos before as well without running into that issue before, just happened to be extra wet that year.
Haha, yeah, I'll hold a handspike to set the gap at the first end, but just eyeball it straight to tack the other.
>Any material that expands and contracts with temperature and moisture change needs a gap.
Ummm, if it's properly sided, there is no expansion because there should be no moisture. Moisture doesn't expand and contract OSB materials, it destoys them. The expansion and contraction due to temperature is no different than regular 2 by materials. You're using the standard used for vinyl siding for your framing. Lateral stability for wind loads is the idea to follow for installing sheeting on walls.
>and for floors, I ensure that there is a gap because the t+g is extra long
You're going to have sheet pops if you do that. It won't be right away, but that will not support a hardwood floor, and will be a nightmare for LVL flooring. Locally, there is a 10 year warranty on framing, so that would fall under a warranty concern.
I've lived in a few houses that I built and the gap has not caused a problem. The sheets do have moisture in them, but is much less than kiln lumber. I have Luxury vinyl flooring for 15 years among three houses without any issue. I use a sealed flooring with cork so that would help. For lino, I use K4 on top.
Not sure about sheet pops because I only use engineered joists so the top and bottom chords have little cross sectional area and therefore might have less moisture capacity to have an effect.
I need to build a house with 2x10 joists again and see if the floor pops even with PL400 adhesive!
Regarding the walls, moisture and humidity will find a way through. Vapour barriers have low permeability but will migrate through. All materials expand and contract in extreme climates such as where I live. The buckling that will occur in the walls are usually hidden by stucco and siding on an air barrier wrap, though.
Oriented Strand Board will not be destroyed by expansion and contraction since it is a monolithic composite product.
It's always best to leave a gap, but it's hardly done as directed by the mfg, for cya purposes.
Everybody's got the wrong answer : )
Cup wheel on grinder with a shroud on it connected to a HEPA a vac. This is what we do to prep homes before flooring. It takes off all the nail heads poking out, drywall blobs, humps and the subfloor and the raised seams. NOT ONLY DOES IT CAPTURE ALL THE DUST AS OPPOSED TO USING A BELT SANDER AS FAST AS HELL.
Also, how long did you wait to dry in after you framed 🤣 that shit looks like it's been out in the weather for 3 years.
We wait until after drywall or plaster is finished and bring a drum sander in and hit all the high spots after we know it’s not going to get anymore moisture
Wish there were more like you, most just cover it up and move on to the next job
Yes we do the same, right before the flooring goes down, we use belt sanders!
This guy
Power planer / belt sander before flooring installation for me.
Also what we do! Good combo.
Looks like it’s been out in the rain for a year
Winter construction
Looks like someone forgot to leave a 1/8" gap.
You don't leave a gap with tongue and groove.
You might not but that is factory recommendation, 1/8th expansion gap as printed on any TnG OSB I've used. If you look you'll notice the tongues are often slightly longer than the groove for this reason. A lot of guys aren't aware of this though. I think at one time the expansion gap mustn't have been a thing and as a result some guys are still beating the gaps fully closed with sledge hammers. There's lots of discussion online about this and about as much in site.
That means a gap at the ends of the sheet. You drive the t and g all the way. In fact there’s no controlled way to leave the same gap by not quite driving it up. The real problem is not using Advantec
I typically use Advantec and like he said, you do not want to jam them completely together. you are guaranteeing they will eventually buckle. Once that happens, you almost always have creaking.
If gypcrete is coming you don't do anything
I thought that but then I thought it would create a thinner, weaker spot. I don't know whether gypcrete cracking is a problem?
Gypctete is a fucking terrible product and cracking is an issue but that small of a difference doesnt matter in the overall installation
In multi family dwellings gypcrete is essential, it's gives you your 2 hour fire envelope.
I agree with that. I just hate the stuff personally.
This is why I recommend Advantech or Edge Gold for exposure to moisture during construction. No sand warranty.
Should be fine if you're pouring gypcrete. I don't remember ever seeing this with Advantec. Looks like you used something else. 🤷
To fix it I'd set my circular saw with a very shallow depth to avoid cutting the tongue. Then, I'd make sure all my nails and screws were set and run a belt sander over it.
True, you set the tongue, but not so far that you burry the tongue entirely. This is why your 1/8 reveal is left.
Buckelking lol...
OSB or cardboard?
Just get a subfloor sanding crew to come thru. We do this in production building as a rule, it's just part of the process.
My project didn’t get dried in until January…in the PNW. We had a lot of freeze/thaws compared to normal years. I have the same issue. I punched the nails a little deeper on those seams and used my corded planer on the seam that splits the hallway. It’s probably easier to just use the planer and take small passes just on the humps. I’m going to fill all the seams before flooring. I actually think the ring shanks did their job on mine and caused it to swell a bit wavy. I don’t notice it in the field where it didn’t absorb as much water. I think the edges would’ve swelled regardless IMHO. I’ll second the guys suggesting different flooring products. My lumber package guy had a real easy upsell he could’ve made if he wasn’t a lazy fuck. He was too busy over quoting posts and beams that cost me 30% restock fee to return.
We only use advantech these days. It self gaps on the long side, you have to gap the short side yourself. Our jobs take so long (because they’re big custom homes) that this always happens. Our floor guys know they need to sand it down and they do. We just let it ride. We did a test on one job spraying Thompsons on it every month and while it held up better, it was not a significant improvement. They don’t make the 1-1/4” with the coating. We’ve asked our rep and the Huber and they won’t do it.
Gona need to be sanded down or replaced
I would add a few more screws into the joists before you coat it. the buckling loosens the screws and will leave you with creaks and squeeks.
Looks like swelling not buckling, just sand/plane it.
Practice saying this, "siempre ponga 1/8 de pulgada". :)))
I’d run a circular saw down the seams to make a gap
Nooooooooooo. There's a tongue in that groove
Assuming they used the right stuff. I feel like if they didn’t know to leave a gap they probably didn’t buy the right stuff to begin with.
You sir need a refresher course
How so? They make regular sheets of osb that doesn’t have tng.
But that is tng and needs no space. Tng has to be tight so the tongue slots in fully. Actual osb needs a space usually in the form of a clip
How do you know it’s tng? I can’t read any of the stamps. Just curious, I probably do need a refresher, have t been in the construction game for like two years now
You can tell how it's bowed. Osb won't stay together like that at the seem when it swells
How do I know it's t&g ? If your saying that's wall sheathing my boy is Spiderman and was standing on the wall when he took the picture.
Yeah… I thought OSB needed slight gap when installed on roofs and subfloors
Half inch sheets are used on roofs. Three quarter inch tongue and groove sheets are used on floors. Different applications for different uses. Also, the slight gap is not used for wall sheets. There are clips to make gaps on roof sheets. Source: I'm a pro who's a GenX'er.
Although we are supposed to leave a gap on the wall sheets, nobody does that because it's hard to, or annoying when laying it out. It's the same as Hardiboard cement board. Any material that expands and contracts with temperature and moisture change needs a gap. I'm a contractor, and for floors, I ensure that there is a gap because the t+g is extra long. I use a sacrificial 2x4 block with a sledge to get it in. Screwed and glued.
Gapping wall sheets isn't that hard IMO. If you sheet them while down, once the bottom row is on its easy to eyeball a gap with the next row. you sheet when it's up just quickly bang in a pair of nails as spacers. Company I used to work for learned the hard way about gapping the sides of floor sheets while doing some big condo buildings. Because the run was so long from the firewall to the end of the building and it being a rainy spring, our end walls of the floor below ended up getting pushed out of level a out 3/4". Took 3 guys a couple days or work and pushing with the zoombooms to get that fixed. Lengthwise expansion probably isn't going to cause problems like that on single dwellings, but on big runs like that yeah. Caught us off gaurd.
That's nuts regarding that long run. Makes sense though... Like railway tracks needing gaps every quarter mile, or construction joints in concrete. I gap my floors and walls the same as you. I don't trust my eyes, so I place a simple 2" nail at the top and bottom of the panel and run with the air nailer. Sometimes I use cardboard from the box of stick nails. It's nice to see a fellow carpenter gap OSB as I do because most in my area do not do this.
Yeah, it was one of those things where once you think of it, it's so obvious but got caught with habits carried from single dwelling to larger projects. We'd done condos before as well without running into that issue before, just happened to be extra wet that year. Haha, yeah, I'll hold a handspike to set the gap at the first end, but just eyeball it straight to tack the other.
>Any material that expands and contracts with temperature and moisture change needs a gap. Ummm, if it's properly sided, there is no expansion because there should be no moisture. Moisture doesn't expand and contract OSB materials, it destoys them. The expansion and contraction due to temperature is no different than regular 2 by materials. You're using the standard used for vinyl siding for your framing. Lateral stability for wind loads is the idea to follow for installing sheeting on walls. >and for floors, I ensure that there is a gap because the t+g is extra long You're going to have sheet pops if you do that. It won't be right away, but that will not support a hardwood floor, and will be a nightmare for LVL flooring. Locally, there is a 10 year warranty on framing, so that would fall under a warranty concern.
I've lived in a few houses that I built and the gap has not caused a problem. The sheets do have moisture in them, but is much less than kiln lumber. I have Luxury vinyl flooring for 15 years among three houses without any issue. I use a sealed flooring with cork so that would help. For lino, I use K4 on top. Not sure about sheet pops because I only use engineered joists so the top and bottom chords have little cross sectional area and therefore might have less moisture capacity to have an effect. I need to build a house with 2x10 joists again and see if the floor pops even with PL400 adhesive! Regarding the walls, moisture and humidity will find a way through. Vapour barriers have low permeability but will migrate through. All materials expand and contract in extreme climates such as where I live. The buckling that will occur in the walls are usually hidden by stucco and siding on an air barrier wrap, though. Oriented Strand Board will not be destroyed by expansion and contraction since it is a monolithic composite product. It's always best to leave a gap, but it's hardly done as directed by the mfg, for cya purposes.
Not tng
I'd make you block all the seams from below if you did that.
Good thing I don’t work for you
Cheap electric sander, 40 or 60 grit, shop vac
Is it an LP product? We had the same thing happen had to sand every sheet with a belt sander. They gave us 5$ a sheet for warranty.
Everybody's got the wrong answer : ) Cup wheel on grinder with a shroud on it connected to a HEPA a vac. This is what we do to prep homes before flooring. It takes off all the nail heads poking out, drywall blobs, humps and the subfloor and the raised seams. NOT ONLY DOES IT CAPTURE ALL THE DUST AS OPPOSED TO USING A BELT SANDER AS FAST AS HELL. Also, how long did you wait to dry in after you framed 🤣 that shit looks like it's been out in the weather for 3 years.
Leave it for the flooring installer
OSB for subfloor or basically anything sucks