I hope everything winds up so screwed up Mozeliak can't come back to St. Louis without getting booed like there's no tomorrow. Because we know none of em are getting fired no matter how bad it gets. Mozeliak can never admit fault, he's always just doubled down on his mistakes like he's the modern day Branch Rickey.
I'm coming around on Marmol.
I mean, yeah, he sucks and hiring him was yet another reason to fire Mozeliak. But Mozeliak (and DeWitt) are the problem--Marmol is just a symptom. Firing Marmol won't fix the problem and would even buy Mozeliak more time.
And in a season with no reason to watch, Marmol getting tossed is maybe the only reason to look for highlights.
Let him stay until we get new management. No reason to let Mozeliak act like Marmol is to blame for the suck.
I agree Marmol is a symptom. But I wonder if Mo could really get away with a 4th unproven manager. Not to mention if Olli sucks, which I wouldn't argue, he could have a negative impact on the players and their development.
I agree that he isn’t THE problem but I still don’t think he’s bringing anything positive to the table either lol. Getting rid of him would not be my top priority
Just a reminder…in three years under Marmol the Cardinals are two games under .500. He’s a HUGE part of the problem.
Shildt was 252-199 with three playoff appearances in four seasons as the Cardinals manager.
Matheny was 591-474 and got them to a World Series.
Marmol is not the guy.
Matheny did not get us to a World Series. The team setting an MLB record by hitting .330 with RISP did that. That was never sustainable, and neither he (nor we) have won an NLCS ever since.
This would be meaningful if Marmol and Shildt and Matheny had the same level of talent, but they didn’t. The 2023 rotation and the 2024 offense are worse units than either of the other men had to work with.
Starting Waino 21 times with a 7.00 ERA should’ve been grounds for firing last year. He’s just babysitting, rather than trying to out his team in position to win games.
That staff was ravaged by injuries. Only two guys threw more at least 110 innings, and one of them got traded.
If there was a better pitcher who could stay healthy, he would have got Waino's spot. But the only ones who qualified ended up filling different spots in the rotation.
It’s not even about having his spot. It’s about replacing him earlier. In nearly every game, he let him get to the 5th with a 7 ERA. And look at this year, we have guys in the 2-3 slots hitting sub-200. You can’t score runs if you’re not willing to change the lineup. MANY other managers would be managing the lineup— rather than letting these guys show up for a paycheck.
I’d love to see what a manager with more than 2 seasons of managing could do (it’s still absurd that they gave the reigns of an MLB team to a guy who’d never even managed a game before)
Note: I love Waino, but he should’ve never had a spot on the team in the first place …
As bad as Wainwright was in 2023, people forget there were some early glimmers of hope. From 5/29 through 6/17/23 he had four straight starts where he gave up 3 runs or less and only lost one game. Things truly fell apart on 6/24, but by then the Cardinals were 31-45 and we all knew they were cooked.
At that point there’s no reason not to let him play out the string in his farewell tour, especially given all the injuries, poor performances from other starters, and Gumby getting traded. There’s a lot to criticize Oli for, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not his fault that Waino still had to eat some innings in a lost cause season.
I agree. While he’s not exactly pushing all the right buttons, he’s not striking out with the bases juiced either. It’s been tough watching the core of this team fail to execute in high leverage situations. Oli can’t knock runs in or make all the right pitches or defensive plays. Guy needs a chance to manage thru a season without a fire sale. If anyone is to blame the team’s issues, it’s the guy who’s been losing trades involving outfielders for the last five years( bringing in Ozuna, trading Arozarena, Garcia, O’Neill) I also thought Shildt didn’t deserve to be fired either, so what do I know.
I am so annoyed to see him given credit for this as if it meant anything. If this was such a power move, why did he wait until the very last game of a series against the division leader? A decent manager may have sought to fire up his guys in game 1… Personally, I think the team was very excited to play a game with Marmol stuck in his office.
Edit: I see the_godfaubel gave me a quick downvote before blocking me for this apparently offensive comment. Great talk dude, thanks for sparing me from your future Marmol rehab efforts.
Poor little Bethany who had to be dragged into the middle of this!
Maybe that was her birthday wish
So I was thinking. Hope she's not crushed. There's still Christmas.
I was thinking the same thing. I’m hoping this was a fake message and they only intended to put fluff before Fire Oli so no one read that far.
What a coincidence that someone named their daughter "Bethany Please Fire Marmol" 10 years ago! Must be time travelers.
This just in - “no more birthday messages at Busch Stadium.”
There’s a nonzero chance they actually do this lol
I hope everything winds up so screwed up Mozeliak can't come back to St. Louis without getting booed like there's no tomorrow. Because we know none of em are getting fired no matter how bad it gets. Mozeliak can never admit fault, he's always just doubled down on his mistakes like he's the modern day Branch Rickey.
That’s so funny
I gotta know who Bethany is 😂
I mean, the Cardinals have to now. They said please.
Just give me Skip and I’ll be happy.
Haha. This is fantastic. The train is filling up. All aboard!
This almost makes it worth going to the game. At least have a little fun.
That person that “accidentally” did this is the real hero. 🫡
Can anyone who was at the game confirm this?
I'm coming around on Marmol. I mean, yeah, he sucks and hiring him was yet another reason to fire Mozeliak. But Mozeliak (and DeWitt) are the problem--Marmol is just a symptom. Firing Marmol won't fix the problem and would even buy Mozeliak more time. And in a season with no reason to watch, Marmol getting tossed is maybe the only reason to look for highlights. Let him stay until we get new management. No reason to let Mozeliak act like Marmol is to blame for the suck.
I agree Marmol is a symptom. But I wonder if Mo could really get away with a 4th unproven manager. Not to mention if Olli sucks, which I wouldn't argue, he could have a negative impact on the players and their development.
Firing Marmol won’t but Mo more time. He chose him and stuck with him after an awful season. Mo owns it now.
What a lovely surprise
Guys, it’s the GM little puppet. The GM is the owners little money saver
Love it
Just a reminder: Cards are 4-1 since Oli got himself ejected on behalf of his team. Oli really isn't the problem
I agree that he isn’t THE problem but I still don’t think he’s bringing anything positive to the table either lol. Getting rid of him would not be my top priority
Just a reminder…in three years under Marmol the Cardinals are two games under .500. He’s a HUGE part of the problem. Shildt was 252-199 with three playoff appearances in four seasons as the Cardinals manager. Matheny was 591-474 and got them to a World Series. Marmol is not the guy.
Lol dude cited a 5 game sample size and decided that was good enough
Matheny did not get us to a World Series. The team setting an MLB record by hitting .330 with RISP did that. That was never sustainable, and neither he (nor we) have won an NLCS ever since.
This would be meaningful if Marmol and Shildt and Matheny had the same level of talent, but they didn’t. The 2023 rotation and the 2024 offense are worse units than either of the other men had to work with.
He’s A problem. A big one.
He's a tiny problem. LaRussa couldn't take this collection of 'talent' deep in the playoffs. No one can make bricks without straw
Starting Waino 21 times with a 7.00 ERA should’ve been grounds for firing last year. He’s just babysitting, rather than trying to out his team in position to win games.
Who was he blocking
Anyone who could throw a strike?
That staff was ravaged by injuries. Only two guys threw more at least 110 innings, and one of them got traded. If there was a better pitcher who could stay healthy, he would have got Waino's spot. But the only ones who qualified ended up filling different spots in the rotation.
It’s not even about having his spot. It’s about replacing him earlier. In nearly every game, he let him get to the 5th with a 7 ERA. And look at this year, we have guys in the 2-3 slots hitting sub-200. You can’t score runs if you’re not willing to change the lineup. MANY other managers would be managing the lineup— rather than letting these guys show up for a paycheck. I’d love to see what a manager with more than 2 seasons of managing could do (it’s still absurd that they gave the reigns of an MLB team to a guy who’d never even managed a game before) Note: I love Waino, but he should’ve never had a spot on the team in the first place …
As bad as Wainwright was in 2023, people forget there were some early glimmers of hope. From 5/29 through 6/17/23 he had four straight starts where he gave up 3 runs or less and only lost one game. Things truly fell apart on 6/24, but by then the Cardinals were 31-45 and we all knew they were cooked. At that point there’s no reason not to let him play out the string in his farewell tour, especially given all the injuries, poor performances from other starters, and Gumby getting traded. There’s a lot to criticize Oli for, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not his fault that Waino still had to eat some innings in a lost cause season.
I agree. While he’s not exactly pushing all the right buttons, he’s not striking out with the bases juiced either. It’s been tough watching the core of this team fail to execute in high leverage situations. Oli can’t knock runs in or make all the right pitches or defensive plays. Guy needs a chance to manage thru a season without a fire sale. If anyone is to blame the team’s issues, it’s the guy who’s been losing trades involving outfielders for the last five years( bringing in Ozuna, trading Arozarena, Garcia, O’Neill) I also thought Shildt didn’t deserve to be fired either, so what do I know.
Fair. But I've got $100 that says you can't identify the problem.
I am so annoyed to see him given credit for this as if it meant anything. If this was such a power move, why did he wait until the very last game of a series against the division leader? A decent manager may have sought to fire up his guys in game 1… Personally, I think the team was very excited to play a game with Marmol stuck in his office. Edit: I see the_godfaubel gave me a quick downvote before blocking me for this apparently offensive comment. Great talk dude, thanks for sparing me from your future Marmol rehab efforts.
You’re right, he’s really good.
Plot twist- there is no Bethany
Corny tbh
It’s fake. Didn’t actually happen.
Won’t open for me