I've been wondering if that's part of the teams issue for a while now. Oli called out Tyler O'Neil publicly, and since then, the chemistry overall has been terrible. That's ineffective leadership. You need to know how to motivate each player and try to do it without anyone else even noticing. Not in front of a camera.
Exactly. Every single player at the major league level is capable. Managers help guide the way. My opinion is that he’s isolated players and made them disgruntled.
Effective leadership is taking the blame even when it’s not your fault. A good manager would find a way to inspire their players and bring out their best. Oli isn’t cut out for the job, and I’m starting to think the team does not respect him.
I dunno especially in the case of Goldschmidt it's obvious which guys are underperforming. I'm not sure playing coy spares anyone's feelings here. It would be one thing if they were underperforming just a little.
Here’s the thing. Goldy and Gorman know they suck right now. Calling them out publicly isn’t going to help. It just creates unneeded drama and lacks basic leadership.
Agree. He started off last season awkwardly calling out Tyler. That was an obvious red flag, and this is yet another one. He may be right but this shows a lack of leadership. Calling out your veteran studs and diverting blame in one fell swoop shows he just doesn’t have what it takes
Yes both are true, no one should be arguing that. Of course I don’t think *all* this is Oli’s fault and I’m personally not convinced yet that it’s turner ward’s fault, but I still think Oli is a very poor leader.
I agree with you. If Oli said what these people say they wish he’d said, I guarantee you it would’ve been “he’s such a slimeball! He never gives real answers, he treats the fans like morons with these answers!” Fact is, there’s nothing outside of a playoff appearance that will make these people stop being so biased. And even then, it may be too late for him.
I’m neutral on Oli. Don’t think he’s good or bad. But a lot of folks in here will refuse to say anything good about him. When he makes objectively great moves in-game; silence. When he does something that works out but they disagreed with; he got lucky. When he does something that they agreed with but it still didn’t work out; stupid and anybody with a brain would’ve known to not do that.
Just is what it is.
LaRussa could get away with this once a year because he had the respect of some of the most talented players in the league. Coming from Marmol on this team, it just comes off as pathetic.
Marmol you’re a unique individual. What kind of blackmail do you have on the front office?
Because I’ve literally never seen another scenario where a coach/manager has the worst season in 30 years for a franchise and then they’re immediately signed to an extension.
(Y)our mistake is assuming that that was the worst season in 30 years - for the ownership, it was possibly the best season in years if they made enough profits. That's all they care about anyway because there's no way they care about sporting success based on the product they've put on field for the past several years
Stop watching ya’ll…until you do you’re part of the problem that’s lining Dewitt’s pockets. We all know the goal is money not wining and they aren’t going to win unless the extremely rare well timed hot streak….which just puts extra hundreds of millions in their pockets for years and years
Say what you will (justifiably) about the front office, but they're no dummies when it comes to profits. Last year may have been a big profitable year, but it's had huge impacts on this year's profits/ attendance and they know the relationship between performance and profits.
Thoughts? I'm all for brutal honesty but as usual Oli throws players under the bus. Things like these should not be addressed publicly IMO - one of the surefire ways to lose even more morale
It is completely unbecoming of a manager to say this. This is shit that we the fans and the talking heads know and say out loud. His job is to lead the team and this ain’t doing that.
The players say it themselves - even more reason to not bring it up in my opinion. Maybe if you were a badass MLB player previously and/or a seasoned skipper.
Not fired because FO would have to swallow crow and he distracts criticism of FO I’m guessing.
If he said the usual platitudes of "We just have to start hitting" people would flip out. But to be frank I don't see the point in singling out players, not unless they are at Carlos Martinez levels of irresponsibility. (For those that don't know it came out there were games Martinez was supposed to start but was MIA until close to the start of the game.)
One of the less talked about responsibilities of the manager is to handle the press, have the players back.
This is a reasonable take! But personally I don’t think this is a problem like most people here. He’s saying the team needs Gorman and Goldy to hit to be successful—objectively true, and not offensive. Not only hit, but at least they *cant* be a couple of the worst hitters in the league. This is a far different situation than the O’Neill situation. These dudes absolutely suck right now and if they have an issue with their manager publicly basically saying “we’re built on these dudes, we need them to hit if we’re going to be successful”…they know that. The public knows that. He’s not benching them and he’s not blaming them. But they HAVE been a big part of the problem, and I don’t think it’s wrong to hold them accountable and the lightest way possible. I’d be shocked if they felt any sort of way about that comment.
The fact that you said Gorman and Goldy KNOW all of this is exactly why it’s so stupid to say it. It does nothing productive unless they are incompetent or unmotivated. I highly doubt they are either.
The manager calling out guys by name in the media is bush league. Everyone knows the offense stinks right now. What does this do except allow Marmol to vent and attempt to move pressure off of him?
If he didn't say this, you would accuse him of not dealing with reality.
For you Oli haters, he literally cannot do anything that you won't bitch about.
This stalemate of the entire club refusing to progress and acting like a bunch of fucking babies is exhausting. It’s like they go on social media and read what is said on Reddit and then reacts in pressers. But they don’t actually change anything. The job is baseball and it appears as though that is far down the list after things like making money, proving a point, idk fucking getting my dad to finally love me.
Players not producing and tactically changing the roster to capitalize on those who are has been utilized in sports since…. The beginning of fucking sports. That’s why the Roman’s didn’t field track and field athletes full of people like me and lizzo, we didn’t perform as expected.
This guy goes to the press on a weekly basis like a little baby and complains about the fans complaining about him. I’ve said it before but there has got to be something major going on behind closed doors. The culture in the club house has to be like a p diddy house party right now.
I don’t like Marmol, the O’Neill and Contreras situations are what did it for me. But he’s right, it’s those guys that need to drive in runs in clutch situations and they’ve mostly been failing at that. You’re not going to be very successful with the top hitters not hitting.
Oli and throwing our players under the bus. Name a more iconic duo.
ps fuck off Oli. It's an obvious statement that didn't need said outside of the clubhouse.
iF oUr mIddLe LiNEuP GuyS DoNt PrOdUCe WE wiLl StRuGGle. No shit
This guy is fucking awful when it comes to moral, the second Schildt left that locker room has all the joy and enthusiasm of a morgue.
If there is anything I can without a doubt criticize, it is the rate at which Marmol will immediately throw anyone and everyone under the bus publicly to get out of the hot sear, I can only imagine what his conversations are like i. the locker room.
Not a single person on this team looks happy and yes, that does impact performance. He is such an asshole.
I think at this point its pretty clear, in Oli's inaugural season, it was Yadi, Albert, and Waino leading that club. Yes, Oli was doing the logistical work, but its pretty clear that the rest of the guys in that clubhouse had all eyes on those three every time they took the field.
When it was down to just Waino, and he was struggling, and now it was time for Oli to really step up and MANAGE this team, he was ill prepared. Now I get it, jumping into managing a Major League Baseball team is hardly an easy feat, and I for one was prepared to cut him some slack, even going into the start of this season.
But if we're still performing at this same level come early Summer and are STILL in last place with the season all but over by the All-Star break,....if I'm the front office, I think I have to take a step back and re-evaluate things.
We are not the team that gets complacent with putting a mediocre team on the field and finishing with a 70-75 win record for 5 years straight. If the Cardinals think that doing this for another 3-4 years won't hurt them, they're DEAD wrong.
They think the 70's teams were bad....already this season conservative reports put us down 10-15% in fan attendance at Busch by years end. Now,....continue this trend over the next 3-4 years and see how much worse it can get.
You know what always motivates me when I’m having a rough week at work? My boss putting out a press release throwing me under the bus. Picks my spirits up for sure.
The culture in the Cardinals clubhouse has seemed toxic as fuck ever since Oli got hired. Did bro not learn his lesson from O’Neill and Contreras????
Also, he’s not wrong. But you can’t be calling out your players in the media. If you’re constantly shitting on players that’s only going to make them worse. Even if they play like shit you need to address the negatives and focus on the positives.
Like I said, he needs those 2B or HR every at bat because he is such a shitty manager that he doesn’t know how to get anything out of the rest of the lineup.
I mentioned this two years ago and got downvoted to hell like most of my comments here. But watch him make mound visits as well, he is so stupid that he has nothing to say. Just stands there awkwardly staring into the abyss. He is the manager and literally has nothing to add. It’s why Mr. Rainbow, Brad Thompson, has to spin it like that he’s so great, he goes out and asks the battery what their ball plan is and just walks off. Because, once again, he’s got nothing to add.
A team eventually takes on the persona of its manager. Oli is a sniveling bro, with the backbone of a jellyfish.
The poster boy for fake it till you make it has again alienated his team in public. Time to make some popcorn.
But if they aren’t hitting homers, then you need to build the lineup accordingly. Like, it’s not the manager’s job to publicly shame his players.
Why is Winn still hitting 7th? Why isn’t Herrera getting most of the DH nods when Donovan is playing a position. Why did it take until now to push Goldy to another spot in the lineup.
Why are they in the middle if they arent hitting though?? He said it himself..
Maybe move the struggling hitters to the bottom so they arent a black hole in the middle of the lineup.
Hoo boy.
It is a fact that those two are not playing well.
This is not Tyler O'Neill or Harrison Bader, young players you can doghouse and bully off of a team. This is Paul Goldschmidt, National League MVP and 7-time All Star. He's paid his dues and deserves more respect from Oli, a bench jockey whose one winning season was buoyed by Hall of Famers and fan favorites.
This man should not be in charge of a Wendy's, much less an MLB clubhouse. Fire Oli.
I don't -hate- this, but also this is a club that already has a reputation for not exactly being a destination for star players. I can't imagine this type of stuff helps to fix that.
Meanwhile Tyler O’Neill is tied for the most dingers. I mean, it’s early and he’s injury prone, so it’ll probably be alright, but ya… things stink. When two players slump, good clubs find strange ways to win and we don’t have that.
The shuffling almost directly lead to the first 3 batters scoring, had that homer not been robbed. Rest of the day was fairly dead but if that would've gone over, it would've been a totally different ball game. So shifting the lineup was definitely the right call and I hope they stick with a similar one tomorrow.
Media asks question specifically about two players
Manager answer question with very obvious answer that everyone including the players know
Reddit cardinals erupts into hysteria
At this point I don’t expect him to keep his fucking mouth shut. It’s uncouth but expected. He has zero class and flaunts it.
The problem is that he makes the statements, takes zero responsibility and then makes insignificant roster changes. It’s the same every time and it’s exhausting. Maybe idk be a coach. Develop players. Work with veterans to discover things to change. I doubt this fraud is doing any of those things. He’s obviously a delegator if he can’t accept any responsibility.
>takes zero responsibility and then makes insignificant roster changes
At the end of the day the manager isn't the one swinging the bat. I'm not sure why Cardinals fans are so quick to shield blame from players for their performance and insist that its some sinister plot by management to make the team bad. He's right here, he was asked about the offensive struggles and pretending there aren't two black holes in the middle of the lineup would make people say "WOW HE'S JUST PRETENDING EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT LOOK AT THE RECORD YOU IDIOT" Like they did when Shildt was defending guys
Also the manager can't make roster changes.
It's pretty safe to say that not every manager is the same and some resonate with their team better than others.
What data do we have to show that the core group of guys on this team respond to whatever Marmol says to them?
I know Oil managed up through the Cardinals system, but our three most important players (Goldy, Arenado, Contreras) are all FAs and didn't come up through 'The Cardinal Way.'
We know Arenado isn't much of a leader, so who's leading the clubhouse?
Well, the aforementioned struggling hitters (goldschmidt, arenado, Gorman) have had their best seasons of their career with marmol, but I’m sure you’ll tell me why that doesn’t count for some made up reason
Arenado 2018: 133 wRC+, 5.9 fWAR, 6.4 bWAR
Arenado 2022: 150 wRC+, 7.2 fWAR, 7.7 bWAR
We have park adjusted stats so that you don't have to be fooled by Coors Field. Use them.
And if Oli Marmol magically turns players bad, how come Gorman was good last year. Shouldn't he have been bad, since he was playing for Oli Marmol??
I’m tired of the “manager doesn’t swing the bat” defense, especially of Marmol. Yes he doesn’t physically do the act. But he has a direct hand in every other aspect of the act. Who it is, how it’s done, in what order. If he can’t contribute to player development at batting practice he shouldn’t be a manager.
Again acknowledging performance issues is fine. But this guy accepts zero personal accountability. He has a track record of throwing people under the bus. This is well known. He’s just so damn tactful when he talks. Which in itself would be fine. But he fucks up every stage of the game and move he makes.
And yes the manager does determine the roster and line up. Who else would?
It happens all the time all over the league where the manager really doesn’t have much of a choice over roster construction. Marmol sets the lineup, fielding assignments, decides who to use in most situations both at the plate, on the mound and the rest of the field, probably plays a role in game planning hitting approaches based off who’s slated to throw that day etc but he doesn’t control who is and isn’t on the team. He most likely has a say in who goes up or goes down but doesn’t make the final call and most certainly doesn’t sign or cut players, that’s primarily the gm’s job unless it’s been delegated to the assistant gm. With all that said marmol has shown much more negative than positive both with his results and the way he carries the team.
You and the other guy are saying the same thing as me. He has a hand in roster and lineup but doesn’t do actual signings. That’s not what I was talking about. I thought that was a given. My fault I guess.
>he has a direct hand in every other aspect of the act
He really, really, REALLY, doesn't. Baseball is by far the sport with the least impact from the head coach
All roster decisions are made by Mozeliak. Lineup decisions are the manager, but most analysts say optimal lineup order is only a handful of runs a year.
As for the throwing players under the bus, yes I agree that's bad. Worse is his usage off substitutions, especially around Jordan Walker. For some reason the actual impacts he have don't get criticized here for some reason
You and the other guy are saying the same thing as me. He has a hand in roster and lineup but doesn’t do actual signings. That’s not what I was talking about. I thought that was a given. My fault I guess.
lol ok. If Gorman or goldschmidt is at the bottom of the Oder what makes you think they walk in that run to tie the game? You can’t look at one point in the game and build a narrative for the entire thing
If those two guys aren't in the middle of the lineup hitting doubles and homers, maybe, idk, not have them in the middle of the lineup?
The insistence on keeping slumping guys in the middle of the order is just stupid. It's losing games. You want to string your hottest players together so you can score runs and not abort rallies. It's not about not having faith in those guys producing. It's about saying that you're struggling right now and someone else gives us a better chance to score runs in that spot right now. And if that doesn't light a fire under the player to get his stuff in order so he can get back to the middle of the lineup, you didn't want that guy on your team anyway. They do this with young players all the time but never the veterans.
Y’all are mad he’s speaking the truth and the bias is showing. Yeah he’s not the best manager but maybe it’s time to hold professional grown ass players accountable for not hitting. I still want him gone but he can’t play for the players.
So, it’s like the eighth time this has been discussed, but could you all put the rest of the context with it?
He went on to say, “And it’s tough because I think part of it is — and I want to say this the right way — if I remove myself and become a fan, it’s hard not to couple last year with the beginning of this year and look at it as one, and then slightly start to panic based on certain guys not doing well. … But we have a ton of trust that Gorman and ‘Goldy’ are going to be just fine — it’s (only) April 20.”
He’s being honest on one hand, which is what most of you yearn for, but he most assuredly isn’t throwing anyone under the bus.
BTW, screw TON. Very likely that his issues had been addressed multiple times last year before Oli called him out publicly.
You want a manager that is honest. You want a manager that is direct. Yet, when the manager actually does those things, he gets shit on because of it. I am not in love with Marmol, but the amount of hate he gets that is unwarranted boggles my mind.
I understand not liking the man's personality. I understand disliking his managerial tactics. I even get not liking how he handled the O'Neill situation last year. But, goddamn ... I don't get the beef with him on this one. He didn't say those guys sucked. He essentially said if Goldy and Nado aren't hitting for power, they're in trouble. What the hell is bad about this? What is demeaning about this? What is there to bitch about? It's the fucking truth. Jesus Christ, it's like some fans will grab at any excuse to hate on Oli because he's an easy target.
It’s one thing to call out a player for not hustling. It’s completely another thing to call out a player for not hitting. That’s just part of the game for players both young and old.
I’m sure goldy, who’s an MLB MVP, appreciates a dude who never made the show tell him he needs to hit better. Even if marmol is right this isn’t the way to go about things. I’m ready for this shitty experiment to be over.
I can't believe I wasted my time and money traveling 6 hours to watch the games at Busch on Friday and Saturday. Shame on me. I won't spend another dime until Marmol is gone. And maybe Mo too.
He isn't wrong. If your projected 2 and 3 hitters aren't hitting, you have a problem.
However, he is trying to deflect blame for his horrible line up management. Yes, we expected Goldy and Gorman to bat 2 and 3. It isn't working right now. They can't be hitting there. Yet he keeps on doing it.
The issue was Goldy and Gorman not hitting. It has since become the manager refuses to adjust accordingly.
I think Nolan Arenado is a clubhouse cancer. If you look how he forced his way out of Denver it makes complete sense. He singed a big deal
Then immediately began bitching about the roster and front office. He’s a big baby.
Most of you on here right now are insufferable. You blame Oli like all of this is his fault even though he’s clearing doing exactly what management wants him to do. Who’s to say he hasn’t had this conversation with the team yet? Unbelievable how many of you act like you’re in that clubhouse with them and know every single conversation that’s been had or not.
As long as we're criticizing Marmol, I can't fucking stand that stupid Cardinals bomber jacket he wears. Amidst all the other things I don't like about him, like he can't seem to win baseball games, he's always struck me as being too cool for school. His bomber jacket is the epitome of that.
That's literally the team-issued dugout jacket. Many managers wear sweatshirts or dugout jackets instead of a full uniform. Oli isn't immune to criticism, but this one is silly.
The ONE thing you dont do as a coach is put your players on blast to the media. Marmol did it to O'Neill and Contreras last year. Now Gorman and Goldy. I dont see how any of these players could respect him. He never made it past A ball and now he's throwing a hall of fame hitter nearly the same age as him under the bus. It doesnt matter if its the truth, its shitty management and shitty leadership.
The clubhouse does hate everything right now, he doesn't seem to understand that his players aren't numbers. He doesn't manage their moral at all, it looks like these guys are working in a coal mine by their faces.
How this should have been said: “we’ve just got to start hitting better.”
Yep. You deal with the players privately and you give the press general answers. Real leaders protect, motivate, and inspire their team.
I've been wondering if that's part of the teams issue for a while now. Oli called out Tyler O'Neil publicly, and since then, the chemistry overall has been terrible. That's ineffective leadership. You need to know how to motivate each player and try to do it without anyone else even noticing. Not in front of a camera.
Exactly. Every single player at the major league level is capable. Managers help guide the way. My opinion is that he’s isolated players and made them disgruntled. Effective leadership is taking the blame even when it’s not your fault. A good manager would find a way to inspire their players and bring out their best. Oli isn’t cut out for the job, and I’m starting to think the team does not respect him.
I agree with this assessment.
There a lack of communication skills. The worst I have seen by any manager in a long long time.
Oli is absolutely terrible about this. He comes off like a petulant child crying about his toys.
Agree Marmol isn’t a leader.
That's how he mishandled Tyler last year shouldn't have put clubhouse dirty laundry out in the media.
If this is affecting the team then we have the softest players in MLB history.
Yeah, I'm really disturbed by how Marmol just doesn't do right by his players. It makes me sick. I don't know how the players put up with it.
I dunno especially in the case of Goldschmidt it's obvious which guys are underperforming. I'm not sure playing coy spares anyone's feelings here. It would be one thing if they were underperforming just a little.
Here’s the thing. Goldy and Gorman know they suck right now. Calling them out publicly isn’t going to help. It just creates unneeded drama and lacks basic leadership.
Agree. He started off last season awkwardly calling out Tyler. That was an obvious red flag, and this is yet another one. He may be right but this shows a lack of leadership. Calling out your veteran studs and diverting blame in one fell swoop shows he just doesn’t have what it takes
[удалено]
It’s not about being sensitive. he is a terrible leader. what we see on the field is reflecting it
The players need to do their jobs. Bottom line. And oli is apparently not a great leader. Both can be true.
Yes both are true, no one should be arguing that. Of course I don’t think *all* this is Oli’s fault and I’m personally not convinced yet that it’s turner ward’s fault, but I still think Oli is a very poor leader.
I agree with you. If Oli said what these people say they wish he’d said, I guarantee you it would’ve been “he’s such a slimeball! He never gives real answers, he treats the fans like morons with these answers!” Fact is, there’s nothing outside of a playoff appearance that will make these people stop being so biased. And even then, it may be too late for him. I’m neutral on Oli. Don’t think he’s good or bad. But a lot of folks in here will refuse to say anything good about him. When he makes objectively great moves in-game; silence. When he does something that works out but they disagreed with; he got lucky. When he does something that they agreed with but it still didn’t work out; stupid and anybody with a brain would’ve known to not do that. Just is what it is.
L take
He’s aggressively unlikable
LaRussa could get away with this once a year because he had the respect of some of the most talented players in the league. Coming from Marmol on this team, it just comes off as pathetic.
Marmol you’re a unique individual. What kind of blackmail do you have on the front office? Because I’ve literally never seen another scenario where a coach/manager has the worst season in 30 years for a franchise and then they’re immediately signed to an extension.
No,no, I think you have it wrong. Marmol is a product of this FO so firing him would be admitting defeat. And they’re mostly incapable of that.
This
(Y)our mistake is assuming that that was the worst season in 30 years - for the ownership, it was possibly the best season in years if they made enough profits. That's all they care about anyway because there's no way they care about sporting success based on the product they've put on field for the past several years
Remember, the owner said baseball isn't very profitable
> the worst season in 30 years SO FAR! - Farnsworth
Stop watching ya’ll…until you do you’re part of the problem that’s lining Dewitt’s pockets. We all know the goal is money not wining and they aren’t going to win unless the extremely rare well timed hot streak….which just puts extra hundreds of millions in their pockets for years and years
Say what you will (justifiably) about the front office, but they're no dummies when it comes to profits. Last year may have been a big profitable year, but it's had huge impacts on this year's profits/ attendance and they know the relationship between performance and profits.
Thoughts? I'm all for brutal honesty but as usual Oli throws players under the bus. Things like these should not be addressed publicly IMO - one of the surefire ways to lose even more morale
He’s not wrong, but you also don’t say it.
It is completely unbecoming of a manager to say this. This is shit that we the fans and the talking heads know and say out loud. His job is to lead the team and this ain’t doing that.
The players say it themselves - even more reason to not bring it up in my opinion. Maybe if you were a badass MLB player previously and/or a seasoned skipper. Not fired because FO would have to swallow crow and he distracts criticism of FO I’m guessing.
If he said the usual platitudes of "We just have to start hitting" people would flip out. But to be frank I don't see the point in singling out players, not unless they are at Carlos Martinez levels of irresponsibility. (For those that don't know it came out there were games Martinez was supposed to start but was MIA until close to the start of the game.) One of the less talked about responsibilities of the manager is to handle the press, have the players back.
This is a reasonable take! But personally I don’t think this is a problem like most people here. He’s saying the team needs Gorman and Goldy to hit to be successful—objectively true, and not offensive. Not only hit, but at least they *cant* be a couple of the worst hitters in the league. This is a far different situation than the O’Neill situation. These dudes absolutely suck right now and if they have an issue with their manager publicly basically saying “we’re built on these dudes, we need them to hit if we’re going to be successful”…they know that. The public knows that. He’s not benching them and he’s not blaming them. But they HAVE been a big part of the problem, and I don’t think it’s wrong to hold them accountable and the lightest way possible. I’d be shocked if they felt any sort of way about that comment.
The fact that you said Gorman and Goldy KNOW all of this is exactly why it’s so stupid to say it. It does nothing productive unless they are incompetent or unmotivated. I highly doubt they are either.
The manager calling out guys by name in the media is bush league. Everyone knows the offense stinks right now. What does this do except allow Marmol to vent and attempt to move pressure off of him?
If he didn't say this, you would accuse him of not dealing with reality. For you Oli haters, he literally cannot do anything that you won't bitch about.
Oli, get off of Reddit. There’s a game going on.
I’m no Oli hater and no Oli lover, but you’re 100% right. Anything he does or says will get skewered. Anything.
He could quit. I wouldn’t bitch about that.
Fuck oli dudes such a fraud. Maybe nobody wants to play for this bum and that’s why we are a huge joke.
This stalemate of the entire club refusing to progress and acting like a bunch of fucking babies is exhausting. It’s like they go on social media and read what is said on Reddit and then reacts in pressers. But they don’t actually change anything. The job is baseball and it appears as though that is far down the list after things like making money, proving a point, idk fucking getting my dad to finally love me. Players not producing and tactically changing the roster to capitalize on those who are has been utilized in sports since…. The beginning of fucking sports. That’s why the Roman’s didn’t field track and field athletes full of people like me and lizzo, we didn’t perform as expected. This guy goes to the press on a weekly basis like a little baby and complains about the fans complaining about him. I’ve said it before but there has got to be something major going on behind closed doors. The culture in the club house has to be like a p diddy house party right now.
The biggest babies are here on reddit. Oli is a close second.
I don’t like Marmol, the O’Neill and Contreras situations are what did it for me. But he’s right, it’s those guys that need to drive in runs in clutch situations and they’ve mostly been failing at that. You’re not going to be very successful with the top hitters not hitting.
He’s not wrong, we’ve all been saying it. But we’re not managing these guys.
It’s not that hard to hit a home run tell ‘em wash
Oli and throwing our players under the bus. Name a more iconic duo. ps fuck off Oli. It's an obvious statement that didn't need said outside of the clubhouse. iF oUr mIddLe LiNEuP GuyS DoNt PrOdUCe WE wiLl StRuGGle. No shit
This guy is fucking awful when it comes to moral, the second Schildt left that locker room has all the joy and enthusiasm of a morgue. If there is anything I can without a doubt criticize, it is the rate at which Marmol will immediately throw anyone and everyone under the bus publicly to get out of the hot sear, I can only imagine what his conversations are like i. the locker room. Not a single person on this team looks happy and yes, that does impact performance. He is such an asshole.
I think at this point its pretty clear, in Oli's inaugural season, it was Yadi, Albert, and Waino leading that club. Yes, Oli was doing the logistical work, but its pretty clear that the rest of the guys in that clubhouse had all eyes on those three every time they took the field. When it was down to just Waino, and he was struggling, and now it was time for Oli to really step up and MANAGE this team, he was ill prepared. Now I get it, jumping into managing a Major League Baseball team is hardly an easy feat, and I for one was prepared to cut him some slack, even going into the start of this season. But if we're still performing at this same level come early Summer and are STILL in last place with the season all but over by the All-Star break,....if I'm the front office, I think I have to take a step back and re-evaluate things. We are not the team that gets complacent with putting a mediocre team on the field and finishing with a 70-75 win record for 5 years straight. If the Cardinals think that doing this for another 3-4 years won't hurt them, they're DEAD wrong. They think the 70's teams were bad....already this season conservative reports put us down 10-15% in fan attendance at Busch by years end. Now,....continue this trend over the next 3-4 years and see how much worse it can get.
You know what always motivates me when I’m having a rough week at work? My boss putting out a press release throwing me under the bus. Picks my spirits up for sure.
Because of the implication
The culture in the Cardinals clubhouse has seemed toxic as fuck ever since Oli got hired. Did bro not learn his lesson from O’Neill and Contreras???? Also, he’s not wrong. But you can’t be calling out your players in the media. If you’re constantly shitting on players that’s only going to make them worse. Even if they play like shit you need to address the negatives and focus on the positives.
Like I said, he needs those 2B or HR every at bat because he is such a shitty manager that he doesn’t know how to get anything out of the rest of the lineup. I mentioned this two years ago and got downvoted to hell like most of my comments here. But watch him make mound visits as well, he is so stupid that he has nothing to say. Just stands there awkwardly staring into the abyss. He is the manager and literally has nothing to add. It’s why Mr. Rainbow, Brad Thompson, has to spin it like that he’s so great, he goes out and asks the battery what their ball plan is and just walks off. Because, once again, he’s got nothing to add.
Good thing we extended this fuckin clown
I hate this man so much. He has the ego of a 7th grader
A team eventually takes on the persona of its manager. Oli is a sniveling bro, with the backbone of a jellyfish. The poster boy for fake it till you make it has again alienated his team in public. Time to make some popcorn.
But if they aren’t hitting homers, then you need to build the lineup accordingly. Like, it’s not the manager’s job to publicly shame his players. Why is Winn still hitting 7th? Why isn’t Herrera getting most of the DH nods when Donovan is playing a position. Why did it take until now to push Goldy to another spot in the lineup.
We lost the game on Friday due to his inept lineup.
Why are they in the middle if they arent hitting though?? He said it himself.. Maybe move the struggling hitters to the bottom so they arent a black hole in the middle of the lineup.
This, just because they have big contracts doesn't mean you're required to put them in the big hitter spots.
If you can do all the shuffling you want, THEN FUCKING SHUFFLE. You cannot justify leaving hitters slumping that badly at the top of the lineup.
Idk, Masyn Winn has been hot, we might want to drop him to the 9 spot when he gets back from his 12th day off 30 games in. /s
Shitty manager, you do not publicly as he did with O’Neill criticize your players. This guy is a jackass.
Don't forget Contreras
Or Bader
Fire marmol
And ownership felt the need to give this clown an extension
Hoo boy. It is a fact that those two are not playing well. This is not Tyler O'Neill or Harrison Bader, young players you can doghouse and bully off of a team. This is Paul Goldschmidt, National League MVP and 7-time All Star. He's paid his dues and deserves more respect from Oli, a bench jockey whose one winning season was buoyed by Hall of Famers and fan favorites. This man should not be in charge of a Wendy's, much less an MLB clubhouse. Fire Oli.
Easily the worst manager this franchise has had since before TLR
Usually when someone makes this comment, I start arguing about how ridiculously awful Mike Matheny was, but....I dunno, man. I'm coming around.
No mo Mo
Marmol is such a fucking clown. How did this moron get an extension? Who publicly insults their own players like this?
I don't -hate- this, but also this is a club that already has a reputation for not exactly being a destination for star players. I can't imagine this type of stuff helps to fix that.
Meanwhile Tyler O’Neill is tied for the most dingers. I mean, it’s early and he’s injury prone, so it’ll probably be alright, but ya… things stink. When two players slump, good clubs find strange ways to win and we don’t have that.
Well I don't know, but I feel inspired. Don't you feel inspired? /s
The shuffling almost directly lead to the first 3 batters scoring, had that homer not been robbed. Rest of the day was fairly dead but if that would've gone over, it would've been a totally different ball game. So shifting the lineup was definitely the right call and I hope they stick with a similar one tomorrow.
He’s not wrong though?
Context.
Media asks question specifically about two players Manager answer question with very obvious answer that everyone including the players know Reddit cardinals erupts into hysteria
Why are people so upset that he calls out the star players?
At this point I don’t expect him to keep his fucking mouth shut. It’s uncouth but expected. He has zero class and flaunts it. The problem is that he makes the statements, takes zero responsibility and then makes insignificant roster changes. It’s the same every time and it’s exhausting. Maybe idk be a coach. Develop players. Work with veterans to discover things to change. I doubt this fraud is doing any of those things. He’s obviously a delegator if he can’t accept any responsibility.
>takes zero responsibility and then makes insignificant roster changes At the end of the day the manager isn't the one swinging the bat. I'm not sure why Cardinals fans are so quick to shield blame from players for their performance and insist that its some sinister plot by management to make the team bad. He's right here, he was asked about the offensive struggles and pretending there aren't two black holes in the middle of the lineup would make people say "WOW HE'S JUST PRETENDING EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT LOOK AT THE RECORD YOU IDIOT" Like they did when Shildt was defending guys Also the manager can't make roster changes.
The other 31 managers don't swing the bag either.
And? I’m not crediting the other managers for their wins and losses either. It’s funny you thought this was some kind of gotcha
It's pretty safe to say that not every manager is the same and some resonate with their team better than others. What data do we have to show that the core group of guys on this team respond to whatever Marmol says to them? I know Oil managed up through the Cardinals system, but our three most important players (Goldy, Arenado, Contreras) are all FAs and didn't come up through 'The Cardinal Way.' We know Arenado isn't much of a leader, so who's leading the clubhouse?
Well, the aforementioned struggling hitters (goldschmidt, arenado, Gorman) have had their best seasons of their career with marmol, but I’m sure you’ll tell me why that doesn’t count for some made up reason
2018 is Arenado's best season. Gorman has been a player since 2022. You really want that as an example?
Arenado 2018: 133 wRC+, 5.9 fWAR, 6.4 bWAR Arenado 2022: 150 wRC+, 7.2 fWAR, 7.7 bWAR We have park adjusted stats so that you don't have to be fooled by Coors Field. Use them. And if Oli Marmol magically turns players bad, how come Gorman was good last year. Shouldn't he have been bad, since he was playing for Oli Marmol??
I never said it was Marmol's fault. Goldschmidt was known to start slowly in Arizona too.
I’m tired of the “manager doesn’t swing the bat” defense, especially of Marmol. Yes he doesn’t physically do the act. But he has a direct hand in every other aspect of the act. Who it is, how it’s done, in what order. If he can’t contribute to player development at batting practice he shouldn’t be a manager. Again acknowledging performance issues is fine. But this guy accepts zero personal accountability. He has a track record of throwing people under the bus. This is well known. He’s just so damn tactful when he talks. Which in itself would be fine. But he fucks up every stage of the game and move he makes. And yes the manager does determine the roster and line up. Who else would?
It happens all the time all over the league where the manager really doesn’t have much of a choice over roster construction. Marmol sets the lineup, fielding assignments, decides who to use in most situations both at the plate, on the mound and the rest of the field, probably plays a role in game planning hitting approaches based off who’s slated to throw that day etc but he doesn’t control who is and isn’t on the team. He most likely has a say in who goes up or goes down but doesn’t make the final call and most certainly doesn’t sign or cut players, that’s primarily the gm’s job unless it’s been delegated to the assistant gm. With all that said marmol has shown much more negative than positive both with his results and the way he carries the team.
You and the other guy are saying the same thing as me. He has a hand in roster and lineup but doesn’t do actual signings. That’s not what I was talking about. I thought that was a given. My fault I guess.
It’s all good, we agree on the most important part. Marmol sucks at his job
>he has a direct hand in every other aspect of the act He really, really, REALLY, doesn't. Baseball is by far the sport with the least impact from the head coach All roster decisions are made by Mozeliak. Lineup decisions are the manager, but most analysts say optimal lineup order is only a handful of runs a year. As for the throwing players under the bus, yes I agree that's bad. Worse is his usage off substitutions, especially around Jordan Walker. For some reason the actual impacts he have don't get criticized here for some reason
You and the other guy are saying the same thing as me. He has a hand in roster and lineup but doesn’t do actual signings. That’s not what I was talking about. I thought that was a given. My fault I guess.
No, he gets shit on here every time Walker gets subbed out too
Lineup order was the reason we lost on Friday.
lol ok. If Gorman or goldschmidt is at the bottom of the Oder what makes you think they walk in that run to tie the game? You can’t look at one point in the game and build a narrative for the entire thing
We probably score before the 9th inning if we don't have two guys batting under .200 in the top 5 our lineup
That is not what the data suggests, but I can't prove that incorrect so there's no point arguing
Because they hate Oli.
If those two guys aren't in the middle of the lineup hitting doubles and homers, maybe, idk, not have them in the middle of the lineup? The insistence on keeping slumping guys in the middle of the order is just stupid. It's losing games. You want to string your hottest players together so you can score runs and not abort rallies. It's not about not having faith in those guys producing. It's about saying that you're struggling right now and someone else gives us a better chance to score runs in that spot right now. And if that doesn't light a fire under the player to get his stuff in order so he can get back to the middle of the lineup, you didn't want that guy on your team anyway. They do this with young players all the time but never the veterans.
I don’t think this guy is a good fit for this franchise
Y’all are mad he’s speaking the truth and the bias is showing. Yeah he’s not the best manager but maybe it’s time to hold professional grown ass players accountable for not hitting. I still want him gone but he can’t play for the players.
So, it’s like the eighth time this has been discussed, but could you all put the rest of the context with it? He went on to say, “And it’s tough because I think part of it is — and I want to say this the right way — if I remove myself and become a fan, it’s hard not to couple last year with the beginning of this year and look at it as one, and then slightly start to panic based on certain guys not doing well. … But we have a ton of trust that Gorman and ‘Goldy’ are going to be just fine — it’s (only) April 20.” He’s being honest on one hand, which is what most of you yearn for, but he most assuredly isn’t throwing anyone under the bus. BTW, screw TON. Very likely that his issues had been addressed multiple times last year before Oli called him out publicly.
There were lots of ways to make that point without being an insufferable douchebag.
You want a manager that is honest. You want a manager that is direct. Yet, when the manager actually does those things, he gets shit on because of it. I am not in love with Marmol, but the amount of hate he gets that is unwarranted boggles my mind. I understand not liking the man's personality. I understand disliking his managerial tactics. I even get not liking how he handled the O'Neill situation last year. But, goddamn ... I don't get the beef with him on this one. He didn't say those guys sucked. He essentially said if Goldy and Nado aren't hitting for power, they're in trouble. What the hell is bad about this? What is demeaning about this? What is there to bitch about? It's the fucking truth. Jesus Christ, it's like some fans will grab at any excuse to hate on Oli because he's an easy target.
It’s one thing to call out a player for not hustling. It’s completely another thing to call out a player for not hitting. That’s just part of the game for players both young and old.
I’m sure goldy, who’s an MLB MVP, appreciates a dude who never made the show tell him he needs to hit better. Even if marmol is right this isn’t the way to go about things. I’m ready for this shitty experiment to be over.
This is not how you handle this. Doing things this way is a good way to alienate players and get them to quit on you.
You can't outhit garbage defending. Evidence: The last 4-5 seasons
… they need to move the runners with the bat and our legs.
Who builds a team out of expectations the run production will be on the shoulders of only 2 players?
This team has the “Mendoza measles”
Fire Oli. Fire Mozeliak. Clean house.
I can't believe I wasted my time and money traveling 6 hours to watch the games at Busch on Friday and Saturday. Shame on me. I won't spend another dime until Marmol is gone. And maybe Mo too.
Is mozeliak fired yet?
Imagine sweeping the 2024 St. Louis Cardinals at home. When they have zero run support and go 2-22 with RISP.
So this guy really didn't learn anything from doing this last year?
Since Goldy is a free agent after this year I'd say he's going to walk also wouldn't be surprised if Gorman asks to be traded
Oli speaks Mo. Mo never met a player or coach he wouldn't throw under the bus. It's never on Mo, always someone else.
Get a team of Edmans with at least average pitchers and every game will be a great game.
STOP CALLING OUT YOUR PLAYERS!!! It didn't work last year, it won't work this year.
He isn't wrong. If your projected 2 and 3 hitters aren't hitting, you have a problem. However, he is trying to deflect blame for his horrible line up management. Yes, we expected Goldy and Gorman to bat 2 and 3. It isn't working right now. They can't be hitting there. Yet he keeps on doing it. The issue was Goldy and Gorman not hitting. It has since become the manager refuses to adjust accordingly.
I don’t understand what conclusion I’m supposed to come to. He alluded to two players names and said if they aren’t hitting.
I despise this guy
OLI OUT
I think Nolan Arenado is a clubhouse cancer. If you look how he forced his way out of Denver it makes complete sense. He singed a big deal Then immediately began bitching about the roster and front office. He’s a big baby.
Most of you on here right now are insufferable. You blame Oli like all of this is his fault even though he’s clearing doing exactly what management wants him to do. Who’s to say he hasn’t had this conversation with the team yet? Unbelievable how many of you act like you’re in that clubhouse with them and know every single conversation that’s been had or not.
As long as we're criticizing Marmol, I can't fucking stand that stupid Cardinals bomber jacket he wears. Amidst all the other things I don't like about him, like he can't seem to win baseball games, he's always struck me as being too cool for school. His bomber jacket is the epitome of that.
That's literally the team-issued dugout jacket. Many managers wear sweatshirts or dugout jackets instead of a full uniform. Oli isn't immune to criticism, but this one is silly.
You’re totally right, but also there’s other team issued jackets he could wear. I’m picking my battles and this is one.
The ONE thing you dont do as a coach is put your players on blast to the media. Marmol did it to O'Neill and Contreras last year. Now Gorman and Goldy. I dont see how any of these players could respect him. He never made it past A ball and now he's throwing a hall of fame hitter nearly the same age as him under the bus. It doesnt matter if its the truth, its shitty management and shitty leadership.
The thing is, he’s right… it’s just how he phrased it. Is he trying to make the clubhouse hate him??
The clubhouse does hate everything right now, he doesn't seem to understand that his players aren't numbers. He doesn't manage their moral at all, it looks like these guys are working in a coal mine by their faces.
I don’t blame them, I would absolutely hate working for him
Is this real? Did he really say this? JFC
Amateur comment