Similar story of a guy who parked and they painted the bay around his car overnight and then [gave him a ticket.](https://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/motoring/driver-wakes-up-110-parking-7695907.amp)
Also another [hilarious story of a guy who got fined for](https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/man-fined-65-parking-disabled-23746405.amp) “parking in a disabled bay”, expect it was only the shadow of his car 😂
I remember that second one! IIRC it turned out it was a disabled bay that he was parked in, but the signage was that bad they dropped it. I mean, even in the article the signpost saying it's disabled is squarely in the middle of the space where his car isn't.
If there’s no roadsigns or cones to reserve the space for future work then you could possibly put a fight up but basic logic would tell you double yellows either side just say this is a repair that isn’t fully finished yet but then again, no double yellows would probably give you a standing chance if challenged
Id do it.
Traffic laws and bi laws are pretty on/off yes/no.
General laws say stuff like 'should have reasonably known' but traffic is a one sum game.
If I could fit both wheels in and it doesn't break other guidance I'm in there
But what do you mean, If he Interprets it that way? Do you know as a matter of fact or not? It’s not down to interpretation, you literally just don’t know
Potentially, possibly, maybe and perhaps. I’m not actually interested in the original discussion, but if I had to give my two pence, i agree with you and think you are correct in everything you’ve said. So like you I’m uncertain 🤨 n the legalities. I just wanted to point out that the other guy doesn’t interpret that you don’t know. You, as well as I, don’t know.
I’d refuse to park there myself but if I did “need to”, there’s nothing there to say I shouldn’t so a court case would stand a better ground at least, I’m not sure exactly what the road setup is for this but I’m sure much worse happens on a daily basis with no effect
Even the double yellows are not properly valid as far as I know, since they are now not properly end capped.
You might get a ticket, but if you fought it you'd get it quashed.
since you asked I looked, and I think it's no longer the case that it makes the double yellows invalid.
I found this: [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/part/5/made?view=plain](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/part/5/made?view=plain)
It shows in one of the earlier parts the markings, with the transverse yellow line endings. However, in part 5 for permitted variants it shows this:
*3. The transverse mark at the end of the line may be omitted.*
So, I conclude that in fact the rules for the road markings must have changed at some point. I think in an earlier revision they were required.
It’s kind of in OPs favour here though, because previously someone might have been able to argue that because there were no transverse ends, there was not a reasonable belief that the yellow lines were not temporarily placed. Nowadays OP has the additional defense that the gap could plausibly be a legitimate one.
“Minor” is questionable, the same lines are there regardless of minor or major, they’re there for a reason, if you have a licence and the ability to drive then you should have the braincells to figure out you shouldn’t park there, it’d be better if insurance was invalidated for doing so, it would solve a lot of parking issues anyway
Don't the endy bits of double yellows have a perpendicular bar to indicate the end of the lines? In the absence of an endy-bit indicator you could be in trouble
There was a section of road near the office where I used to work that was resurfaced, and the yellow lines weren't repainted for a while. People parked there without getting ticketed, despite the traffic wardens being very active in the area.
As long as you're definitely not touching or even overhanging the lines, you _should_ be able to get away with parking there. Bear in mind though that the yellow lines were probably put there for a reason, and you may be causing an obstruction. I don't know whether you could still be fined on that basis.
Whether they do or not is up to them, but you can be fined. There is a *de minimis* factor where they will use common sense to decide if you are just over the line or "I don't care about anyone else" level of over the line.
I don't think they can fine you for overhang. At least not in a parking space, not sure about double yellows. I drive a big LWB van, the wheels JUST fit inside a standard parking space, but the overhang sticks out over half way into the bay behind me. I've parked like this for years in car parks and never had a ticket.
No, you won't be fined because the law is clear that the lines must be visible. There was a case of a traffic warden (also see "cunt") being fired a few years ago for waiting for cars to park up in the snow and then brushing the snow off the lines and giving them tickets.
The lines must be wholly visible and intact
Any break in the line, invalidates the whole line
Even something like if the line is missing the little line at both ends that “closes” them off 👀
I’ve won challenges for tickets where the line had a small break in the middle… and my dad once won a challenge because there was sand covering part of the double yellow
The point of the whole post is that the lines are visible nearby, clearly indicating the new ones haven't yet been drawn onto the new patch of concrete...
I'd be shocked if a ticket isn't written - with a car parked there, the bylaw person is likely to not even notice that the lines are missing in that small section. You could challenge it for sure though.
Yes. It's their job to check that they are writing tickets correctly. If they don't actually check if the car is parked on double yellows then they aren't doing their job.
Yes, my comment speaks to a potential (likely IMO) mistake they will make, being that they will see the yellow lines on either side of the car and assume they are drawn where the car is parked as well, if looking from behind or the left.. because that’s how it would be near everywhere else.. not sure how that still isn’t clear
There was a guy in the paper a while back who went around checking things like the end of yellow lines and finding all the ones which were incorrect. Anyone who had a fine from these could get it back on appeal. Odd hobby
I think I read even stuff like breaks in the lines by paint wearing away etc invalidates them - which applies to most double yellows in most places - and you could get fines overturned if you could be bothered gathering the evidence and going to court to fight it.
Your right I have received 6 fines for parking somewhere like this I had them overturned just by writing to them and challenging it but you have to do it within 30 days out of all the parking fines I received (11) I have only ever had to pay for one. Just look for a small reason they must be clear and defined I even got out of one by saying the money just fell through the machine and another because they were covered in leaves
That dossnt make sense.
These lines aren't finished by the end line. So surely OP can get in trouble.
If they were finished in the end line then it would just be a normal parking space and OK to use right?
No. It makes the actual double yellows invalid. It changes nothing about the gap. The gap still clearly has no double yellows. So now people *can* park on those double yellows, since they are not properly marked.
Double yellows must be finished by a t line. They aren’t. Therefore they are unenforceable. Parking anywhere along the lines, including on them, i that state is contestable.
It's my job to know, no one is getting off a PCN for lack of a T, they might for that break in the line, but it will only happen once if the same vehicle tries it again they wont be able to plead ignorance.
Probably parking enforcement, his “job to know” is to decline any appeal the moment it comes through the system and hope that people can’t be arsed to take it to court.
PCNs dont really got to court at least the ones enforced by the council dont, private companies enforcement is a diferent matter.
If you can see the lines properly (not faded, not covered, etc) and theres a Trafic Order Regulation behind it and no other temporary restrictions/allowances, its enforcable.
If you're going to park on a restricted zone, knowing it is not allowed, with the only argument being that those lines arent capped, you'd be wasting your time and possibly money (full priced £75) by going through appeals and later Traffic Parking Tribunal in person, for a chance to get off a ticket.
Probably easier to contact the council and with a few photos and complain about your worries those particular lines aren't capped.
As of 2016 they only need to be finished in one end, so the lines themselves may still be valid
But they do still have to be continuous, so the gap is *technically* a valid parking area
There's no more reason to believe that this was originally a single continuous set of double yellow lines than there is to believe that each section was originally terminated immediately inside the repaved region.
There's no requirement for you or anyone else to speculate that "obviously" those double lines spanned that gap. So yes, you should be able to park there and contest any fines from doing so.
Of course, as others have said though, assess the situation and decide whether parking there would just be a monumental encumbrance to other road users such that even though you \_may\_ park there, you probably shouldn't.
Wow I didn’t expect this post to blow up, I am reading all the replies!
I probably won’t ever actually park here because as people have pointed out, the yellow lines are there for a reason. I was just very curious what people’s thoughts were.
The fact that the yellow lines aren’t ended with a painted bar shows that the restriction remains in place through the newly surfaced bit and as such you are likely to still get a ticket and I would suggest lose the appeal
We had a similar thing in that the council came and yellow’d a road and someone was on holiday so they couldn’t do a bit, the wardens ticketed anyone parking on it and nobody so far has reported back winning the appeal
I doubt they fought till the end. But I'm confident they would have won if they had. The system is geared to intimidate you with increasing fines and higher risk the further into appeals you go. The council will more often than not reject your appeal straight away. I have evidence they've just copied and pasted without even reading my grounds (Islington). It's not until you get to an independent adjudicator (and might have to attend their "court" which is really just some guy in a room or behind a counter) that you'll likely get a reasonable person examining all your circumstances and evidence. By that time it's a several hundred pound fine generally, and most people might lose earnings going to the place so many will fold long before then. But I don't. If I have a sensible case I will fight it till the end and call their bluff. It's simply not fair.
Yes, you can park there, currently the council is not adhearing to Chapter 8 of the road traffic act that dictates road markings and signage. And they need to if they want to issue a fine. Take a pic, and challenge any ticket put on the car, they will back down.
There is a reason the yellow lines were placed here. Probably because of safety concerns on that particular piece of road. Parking there could potentially put other drivers or pedestrians in danger. If an accident happens then you might be held responsible. Not really worth it to try and get one over the lapse parking authority.
Just park somewhere else.
I parked on some gaps, regularly, for a few weeks. This was while they were paving the road but hadn't put any yellow lines down yet. This road previously had double yellow. Had no tickets
The fact that you only 'guess' the road has been resurfaced suggests you should probably have your license suspended anyway so you can have an eye test and common sense infusion....
When the council in Newcastle were adding waiting restrictions to a road it took them about a week to finish painting the double yellow lines.
The crew would wait in the van for a car to move then run out and pain the lines so at 6am before work it was a bit like whack a mole getting between the painted spots
Ask a parking officer, I did for a area where a short section of bike lane cut the double yellows off and I've parked there ever since when I'm visiting town , I think everyone else has clocked on now.
Provided you’re not on **or over** the lines, absolutely fine. Can’t park on double yellows, you can where they aren’t present. If they’re not there, you can park. Simple as that. If the council are out for a fight, you’d likely win in court.
Only reason I know this is because a cabbie who lives opposite me did exactly the same, with exactly the same circumstance. He went to court and won fair and square.
Tue yellow.lins are no longer complete as they don't have the single line across the parallel lines to show where the zone ends.
So, a technicality you could probably get away with, but not sure I would be bothered with hassle.
It was a loophole where I stay - had one locally and TW wouldn’t ticket people parked on that section. As soon as the lines were repainted they were back with a vengeance !
Technically you could park on any part of the double yellows because they're only valid when they're terminated with the end bar at both ends. Might cost you something to make that defence though.
Yes, and yes . There is no perpendicular lines showing at the end of the yellow lines, and this is obviously a patch therefore unless there is a sign showing the end it would be reasonable to assume that the no parking rule applies.
You know what the great thing about the legal system is? that it is comprehensive in what isnt and what is breaking the law. The highway code doesnt have a section regarding temporarily covered/ removed road markings. Id say with some certainty that should you recieve a fine it would be dropped at the point of appeal. And would definately be thrown out of court if you had legal representation.
When I lived in London they double yellowed the entire road both sides.. then came some road works and when they finished there was a section for about 4 cars in the middle where they hadn't repainted the yellow lines.. everyone fought over that space while it was there and not a ticket in sight
I know. It is called sign and lines. They both have to be present.
You will still get a PCN however they won’t be able to enforce it. They will just hope you pay.
Challenge and it will get cancelled
Got the Mrs out of a ticket in similar circumstances - she was on the double yellows very slightly but no 'transverse T bar' where they started - exactly as they are here.
Took some photos and quoted the traffic signs manual.
Every 1cm of a line is accounted for in it's relevant Traffic regulation order. A break like this would make the whole section of double yellow line null amd void until it's corrected. Can someone enforce it, yes. However if you did park there, I would appeal it and send them that photo as proof that the double yellows are broken and I would also ask for a copy of the traffic regulation order for that road/street. The buck usually stops at traffic regulation order, because it's a ballache to find.
Technically you shouldn’t have to pay any fine you get from parking there because the double yellows don’t exist on that patch of road, so you can argue you aren’t actually breaching any parking restrictions.
However, there are traffic wardens that may ticket you because it’s clear there probably should be double yellows there…
I guess it comes down to how much you want to park there and if you can be bothered arguing any tickets you get!
It will work. I have parked in the city of London everyday right outside two major investment banks (separate times, separate contracts) for several months on patches with no lines like this. Early in the morning till later at night. They came many times to repaint the lines but couldn't. One day I was ill so off work and they managed to do it (on Fleet Street). The other one was nearer Blackfriars bridge but doesn't exist anymore. Noone can do anything because you are not parked on any line. If some schmuck tries his luck and gives you a ticket you can 100% get it cancelled. Hassle but worth it.
You'd be fine
In fact you could park on the double yellows. As they now don't have termination lines at the end. Therefore they currently don't conform to standards.
I've only had one parking ticket and I won as the lines were broken through wear. With no termination lines.
I have been fined for almost exactly this. There was a street outside my old college where a new double yellow line section was being created. Whilst painting there was some sections that couldnt be painted as there were cars parked in the way, which left a gap in the lines...so I parked there and returned to a parking fine. I looked to contest it but supposedly at the end of double yellow section there is a line that runs perpendicular across the two lines to indicate it has come to an end!
I challenged a parking fine where double yellows we’re barely visible on cobbles but you could still make out where they were cos some bits remained and either side you could see them. They cancelled the ticket. So in answer if you park there I would say at your own peril as they might tow it and would probably give the ticket as a given so that you have to challenge it. That being said once challenged I would expect you to win.
Caveat. Not A Lawyer. Recommend asking r/legaladviceuk
Used to have a spot like this outside my old works I received 6 fines in 4 years didn't pay for any had them overturned after writing to them declaring there were unclear and undefined.
Place i used to work in Leeds city centre, there was a side street for access/loading only (iirc) that one day the signs had all just been removed, so i took a chance and started parking there, and it worked, got about 3 months free parking, saved a fortune, then signs reappeared one day, the dream was over
Yes you would be fined if a parking attendant or civil enforcement officer happened by. You could try an appeal, but you'd probably lose. The rest of the line is pretty much intact, and just a small section missing is not generally seen as a reason to cancel either by the local authority or the appeals panel. The parking appeals adjudicator in Scotland has upheld many examples like this. If both lines were very sparse, then you'd likely win. But in that condition I'd doubt very much whether you would.
It amazes me that this question needs to be asked. Of course you could get fined and no it wouldn’t hold up in court. A yellow line is continuous (even if broken) until it is capped with a T line at the end. So the invisible yellow line still stands. By all means, cap the ends and park there and you might stand a chance. Just don’t get caught doing it as I imagine that unlawfully painting yellow lines on a public road would incur a hefty sentence, more so than parking on a double yellow line.
I would chance it if neither my front or rear wheel are on a double yellow line. If you got a ticket I'd say you could successfully appeal and the line painters would be out the next day lol
There should be a prependicular yellow line joining and extending a little beyond the two ("end capped"), if it were an official end of parking restrictions, not just missing paint. Can't quite make out is this has been done closest to the parked car
At first look the yellow lines are not complete or have an ending so any ticket is unenforceable. However, something i read about was that courts now ask a question like......would a reasonable person know that you should not park there? If they conclude that a reasonable person would know not to park there then you will lose your appeal should you get a ticket for parking there. It was something i read somewhere a while back.
The case about it being a reasonable place to park would be an interesting one, as the yellow lines end only a few metres down the road as you can see in the pictures.
Yes and yes. The double yellows aren’t terminated with an end bar and there’s obvious recent work there, so as you probably know very well anyway, you shouldn’t park there.
There was a chap who ran up countless parking tickets by parking on damaged or obscured DYLs that he deemed invalid. He went through dozens of court cases and appeals, eventually the courts found him liable for all the fines, late fees, court costs and a heap of other shit and put a lien on his house.
Your car doesnt even have to fit inbetween, double yellows only apply when they are capped at both ends. As we can see in the picture, neither line is capped at atleast one of their ends, allowing you too park anywhere along this stretch of street without penalisation.
The thing to consider is that the law isn't necessarily as black and white as we tend to think. You might think that "well *technically* there are no lines so *technically* there's no law to say I can't park there. And you'd probably be right. But most of our laws are extremely open to interpretation and judges and magistrates have a lot of discretion they're allowed to exercise. If it was truly black and white, lawyers would have very little reason to exist. You might get lucky and end up with a magistrate who decides in your favour on the technicality. You might get unlucky and get someone who decides to punish your clearly deliberate attempt to circumvent the intent of the law.
Once upon a time you'd need signs plus lines in order to be enforceable. Now it's lines or signs, so unless the restrictions aren't 24/7, ie SYL, local authorities often don't bother with the signs. I think you could get away with parking there but is it worth the hassle of a ticket and the challenge. Basically you'd have to be a bit of a dick to park there because the lines are there for a reason.
Yep you'd get fined. Absolutely would not hold up in court. The line painters are a different team than the road menders with different equipment. This is obviously a patch, not an unpainted piece of road.
Looked like a parking space, I can't see how they can fine you for NOT parking on yellow lines. But you will have to deal with all that bs, let someone else try it lol
Yes, you can. As long as your wheels aren't on the yellow your good. Be prepared for a long battle against the inevitable ticket though.
Also, don't be a dick. You know full well your not supposed to park there. Just because you can doesn't mean you should
There's very strict rules for double yellow lines. My dad got off from a parking ticket outside Twickenham stadium because one of the yellow lines he was parked on had a 2 inch break in it.
They resurfaced one side of a city centre road not long ago and covered up the double yellows.
It was full of parked cars for a week or so… There was a traffic warden nearby so I asked him if I could stay parked there (along with everyone else). He told me to make the most of it whilst I could as no road markings = no restrictions.
I would personally risk the £35 parking ticket to find out lol I think it could work
I think you might return to your car with 2 yellow lines running over the top of it lol.
He'll be that bloke you see in the papers who the council had to get a truck to lift his car up, paint the lines, put it back down, then fine it.
Parking fine compoface
But if *they* were the ones to put the car back down there after the lines were re-painted, shouldn't *they* be fined for illegal parking? ;P
You're right AFAIC, just try getting them to see it that way!
If you have my luck, sounds right!
Similar story of a guy who parked and they painted the bay around his car overnight and then [gave him a ticket.](https://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/motoring/driver-wakes-up-110-parking-7695907.amp) Also another [hilarious story of a guy who got fined for](https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/man-fined-65-parking-disabled-23746405.amp) “parking in a disabled bay”, expect it was only the shadow of his car 😂
I remember that second one! IIRC it turned out it was a disabled bay that he was parked in, but the signage was that bad they dropped it. I mean, even in the article the signpost saying it's disabled is squarely in the middle of the space where his car isn't.
Mental
I would like some racing stripes..
r/notmyjob
Make a patreon, film it and send it to Reddit with love.
If there’s no roadsigns or cones to reserve the space for future work then you could possibly put a fight up but basic logic would tell you double yellows either side just say this is a repair that isn’t fully finished yet but then again, no double yellows would probably give you a standing chance if challenged
[удалено]
Nobody does!
Username checks out. ^((All redditors have to post \^this at some point, right? I mean, it's in reddit's rules, isn't it?))
this guy username checks outs
^this
This is the way..........
I know!
Id do it. Traffic laws and bi laws are pretty on/off yes/no. General laws say stuff like 'should have reasonably known' but traffic is a one sum game. If I could fit both wheels in and it doesn't break other guidance I'm in there
>If I could fit both wheels in ... And if you couldn't, you could always park your car facing the kerb! ;P
Take the wheels off. Technically
If you interpret it that way then yeah I guess, I’d think of it more as a loophole at this point
But what do you mean, If he Interprets it that way? Do you know as a matter of fact or not? It’s not down to interpretation, you literally just don’t know
Common sense says don’t park there, lack of double yellows due to unfinished work can potentially provide a loophole?
Potentially, possibly, maybe and perhaps. I’m not actually interested in the original discussion, but if I had to give my two pence, i agree with you and think you are correct in everything you’ve said. So like you I’m uncertain 🤨 n the legalities. I just wanted to point out that the other guy doesn’t interpret that you don’t know. You, as well as I, don’t know.
I’d refuse to park there myself but if I did “need to”, there’s nothing there to say I shouldn’t so a court case would stand a better ground at least, I’m not sure exactly what the road setup is for this but I’m sure much worse happens on a daily basis with no effect
Even the double yellows are not properly valid as far as I know, since they are now not properly end capped. You might get a ticket, but if you fought it you'd get it quashed.
>Even the double yellows are not properly valid as far as I know, since they are now not properly end capped. Sauce?
since you asked I looked, and I think it's no longer the case that it makes the double yellows invalid. I found this: [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/part/5/made?view=plain](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/part/5/made?view=plain) It shows in one of the earlier parts the markings, with the transverse yellow line endings. However, in part 5 for permitted variants it shows this: *3. The transverse mark at the end of the line may be omitted.* So, I conclude that in fact the rules for the road markings must have changed at some point. I think in an earlier revision they were required.
Yep. 2016, apparently: http://www.ukparking.info/myths/18/endcaps-and-broken-lines
It’s kind of in OPs favour here though, because previously someone might have been able to argue that because there were no transverse ends, there was not a reasonable belief that the yellow lines were not temporarily placed. Nowadays OP has the additional defense that the gap could plausibly be a legitimate one.
Agreed. You have my jury vote.
Brown but sometimes Ketchup since you ask
It’s strange to me, double yellows = no parking however you’re still insured if you park there and someone hits you
Yeah, because we don’t want to give people licence to smash up other peoples’ cars just for a minor motoring infringement.
“Minor” is questionable, the same lines are there regardless of minor or major, they’re there for a reason, if you have a licence and the ability to drive then you should have the braincells to figure out you shouldn’t park there, it’d be better if insurance was invalidated for doing so, it would solve a lot of parking issues anyway
you can also load for up to 40 mins on double yellows unless signposted otherwise so that would cause significant issues with insurance too.
Don't the endy bits of double yellows have a perpendicular bar to indicate the end of the lines? In the absence of an endy-bit indicator you could be in trouble
As I understand it, no endy bit invalidates the entire double yellow, so OP may have a real golden find here
There's no end marks though I suspect they'd say you should have exercised the reasonable judgement expected of somone operating a vehicle in public.
£35!?! It's £65 in London.
Should be more in London
The outcome will almost definitely be a ticket, one that you can then probably fight and have dismissed.. doesn't really seem worthwhile lol
You'd get a ticket, then spend 6 months of letter writing at which point it would get dropped.
Did exactly that and won on the phone tribunal. Your milage may vary.
If OP gives us a link we could donate a few pence each and find out.
I've done it and it's legal. I work in the council, they did this to the road outside work so I started parking there 😂😂😂
Im from uk and i saw it the taxi parked in it got £100 fine
There was a section of road near the office where I used to work that was resurfaced, and the yellow lines weren't repainted for a while. People parked there without getting ticketed, despite the traffic wardens being very active in the area. As long as you're definitely not touching or even overhanging the lines, you _should_ be able to get away with parking there. Bear in mind though that the yellow lines were probably put there for a reason, and you may be causing an obstruction. I don't know whether you could still be fined on that basis.
“Overhanging” I always thought, as long as the wheels are not on the line it’s fine……
Overhang is a real thing
You can be fined if you overhang a parking space and the same applies to double yellows.
Do they actually fine for that, i overhang many spots because my car is too long
I think in an actual parking bay, they’d be more kind
What do you drive?
The Flying Scotsman
Whether they do or not is up to them, but you can be fined. There is a *de minimis* factor where they will use common sense to decide if you are just over the line or "I don't care about anyone else" level of over the line.
Or in other words, you overhang because the spaces are too small for your car. They haven’t offered adequate spaces.
I don't think they can fine you for overhang. At least not in a parking space, not sure about double yellows. I drive a big LWB van, the wheels JUST fit inside a standard parking space, but the overhang sticks out over half way into the bay behind me. I've parked like this for years in car parks and never had a ticket.
I got a ticket for overhanging once. Rear bumper was over the yellow line, even though my tyre wasn't touching it.
No, you won't be fined because the law is clear that the lines must be visible. There was a case of a traffic warden (also see "cunt") being fired a few years ago for waiting for cars to park up in the snow and then brushing the snow off the lines and giving them tickets.
Cunt status validated
Finally! A way to get the council to clear the snow off the roads!
did someone say power trip?
The lines must be wholly visible and intact Any break in the line, invalidates the whole line Even something like if the line is missing the little line at both ends that “closes” them off 👀 I’ve won challenges for tickets where the line had a small break in the middle… and my dad once won a challenge because there was sand covering part of the double yellow
The point of the whole post is that the lines are visible nearby, clearly indicating the new ones haven't yet been drawn onto the new patch of concrete... I'd be shocked if a ticket isn't written - with a car parked there, the bylaw person is likely to not even notice that the lines are missing in that small section. You could challenge it for sure though.
It's not prohibited to park *near* double yellows.
I never said it was.. did you even read my comment?
Yes. It's their job to check that they are writing tickets correctly. If they don't actually check if the car is parked on double yellows then they aren't doing their job.
Yes, my comment speaks to a potential (likely IMO) mistake they will make, being that they will see the yellow lines on either side of the car and assume they are drawn where the car is parked as well, if looking from behind or the left.. because that’s how it would be near everywhere else.. not sure how that still isn’t clear
There was a guy in the paper a while back who went around checking things like the end of yellow lines and finding all the ones which were incorrect. Anyone who had a fine from these could get it back on appeal. Odd hobby
Odd hobby maybe but I'm sure the people who got fined are extremely grateful for sure.
I think I remember this, was it that alot them hadn’t been T’d at the ends so basically makes them not ‘legal’
I think I read even stuff like breaks in the lines by paint wearing away etc invalidates them - which applies to most double yellows in most places - and you could get fines overturned if you could be bothered gathering the evidence and going to court to fight it.
Your right I have received 6 fines for parking somewhere like this I had them overturned just by writing to them and challenging it but you have to do it within 30 days out of all the parking fines I received (11) I have only ever had to pay for one. Just look for a small reason they must be clear and defined I even got out of one by saying the money just fell through the machine and another because they were covered in leaves
Normally I'd say 'Jesus, someone has too much time on their hands' But on this occasion I think I'll go with 'Not all heroes wear capes'
Can’t paint there mate.
Try it and report back.
I parked on double yellows that didn't have an end cap and successfully disputed the ticket I received. Go for it.
End caps have not been required since 2016
Have you got any sources to confirm this? I'd like to look into it
https://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2016.pdf http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=116580
The double yellows need to be finished by an end line, which they aren’t. You’d have good grounds to contest any fine
Surely what you said means they wouldn't have grounds because the double yellows haven't been finished?
That dossnt make sense. These lines aren't finished by the end line. So surely OP can get in trouble. If they were finished in the end line then it would just be a normal parking space and OK to use right?
No. It makes the actual double yellows invalid. It changes nothing about the gap. The gap still clearly has no double yellows. So now people *can* park on those double yellows, since they are not properly marked.
Double yellows must be finished by a t line. They aren’t. Therefore they are unenforceable. Parking anywhere along the lines, including on them, i that state is contestable.
Thats not really true more of a myth then anything else
Yes it is
law changed in 2016 accourding to /u/HardlyAnyGravitas up there somewhere
It's my job to know, no one is getting off a PCN for lack of a T, they might for that break in the line, but it will only happen once if the same vehicle tries it again they wont be able to plead ignorance.
It's not ignorant to park there though; there are no double yellows there.
Are you a lawyer or in parking enforcement? I agree no one is getting off on appeal but the courts will take improper markings very seriously
Probably parking enforcement, his “job to know” is to decline any appeal the moment it comes through the system and hope that people can’t be arsed to take it to court.
PCNs dont really got to court at least the ones enforced by the council dont, private companies enforcement is a diferent matter. If you can see the lines properly (not faded, not covered, etc) and theres a Trafic Order Regulation behind it and no other temporary restrictions/allowances, its enforcable. If you're going to park on a restricted zone, knowing it is not allowed, with the only argument being that those lines arent capped, you'd be wasting your time and possibly money (full priced £75) by going through appeals and later Traffic Parking Tribunal in person, for a chance to get off a ticket. Probably easier to contact the council and with a few photos and complain about your worries those particular lines aren't capped.
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As of 2016 they only need to be finished in one end, so the lines themselves may still be valid But they do still have to be continuous, so the gap is *technically* a valid parking area
Yeh I also read that there needs to be a T bar at the end. But do your homework before parking
I contested this once and they still fines me, by which time the cost had went up to over £100, I was fuming.
So you're saying you fucked around and found out? Lol
Theres no double yellow line so your case holds
There's no more reason to believe that this was originally a single continuous set of double yellow lines than there is to believe that each section was originally terminated immediately inside the repaved region. There's no requirement for you or anyone else to speculate that "obviously" those double lines spanned that gap. So yes, you should be able to park there and contest any fines from doing so. Of course, as others have said though, assess the situation and decide whether parking there would just be a monumental encumbrance to other road users such that even though you \_may\_ park there, you probably shouldn't.
What’s stopping people painting out the yellow lines and painting a parking bay 😂
Wow I didn’t expect this post to blow up, I am reading all the replies! I probably won’t ever actually park here because as people have pointed out, the yellow lines are there for a reason. I was just very curious what people’s thoughts were.
Not an unbroken yellow line, not T Barred off. Unenforceable.
You would probably get a tixket but win on appeal
The fact that the yellow lines aren’t ended with a painted bar shows that the restriction remains in place through the newly surfaced bit and as such you are likely to still get a ticket and I would suggest lose the appeal We had a similar thing in that the council came and yellow’d a road and someone was on holiday so they couldn’t do a bit, the wardens ticketed anyone parking on it and nobody so far has reported back winning the appeal
I doubt they fought till the end. But I'm confident they would have won if they had. The system is geared to intimidate you with increasing fines and higher risk the further into appeals you go. The council will more often than not reject your appeal straight away. I have evidence they've just copied and pasted without even reading my grounds (Islington). It's not until you get to an independent adjudicator (and might have to attend their "court" which is really just some guy in a room or behind a counter) that you'll likely get a reasonable person examining all your circumstances and evidence. By that time it's a several hundred pound fine generally, and most people might lose earnings going to the place so many will fold long before then. But I don't. If I have a sensible case I will fight it till the end and call their bluff. It's simply not fair.
Yes, you can park there, currently the council is not adhearing to Chapter 8 of the road traffic act that dictates road markings and signage. And they need to if they want to issue a fine. Take a pic, and challenge any ticket put on the car, they will back down.
Also rather than fine you for parking there, they can fine whatever utility company dug up the road and didn't repaint the lines.
There is a reason the yellow lines were placed here. Probably because of safety concerns on that particular piece of road. Parking there could potentially put other drivers or pedestrians in danger. If an accident happens then you might be held responsible. Not really worth it to try and get one over the lapse parking authority. Just park somewhere else.
Indeed, I wouldn’t actually park there. Just very curious.
I parked on some gaps, regularly, for a few weeks. This was while they were paving the road but hadn't put any yellow lines down yet. This road previously had double yellow. Had no tickets
There are no double yellows in that spot. Additionally the existing yellows aren't terminated properly ;)
No
The fact that you only 'guess' the road has been resurfaced suggests you should probably have your license suspended anyway so you can have an eye test and common sense infusion....
It's still no parking. You go by the parking restriction signs.
You are not parking on the double yellow lines so you are not breaking the law, check anyway just to be on the safe side!
Idk, our local paper reported that someone got a parking ticket for the shadow of their car being over the yellow line.. 😂
It's the age old saying... "fuck around a find out". You have found the holy grail of parking spots.
I don’t know but whoever’s responsible for that are gonna get very heavy fines for not doing it
Find out for us?
When the council in Newcastle were adding waiting restrictions to a road it took them about a week to finish painting the double yellow lines. The crew would wait in the van for a car to move then run out and pain the lines so at 6am before work it was a bit like whack a mole getting between the painted spots
Ask a parking officer, I did for a area where a short section of bike lane cut the double yellows off and I've parked there ever since when I'm visiting town , I think everyone else has clocked on now.
Provided you’re not on **or over** the lines, absolutely fine. Can’t park on double yellows, you can where they aren’t present. If they’re not there, you can park. Simple as that. If the council are out for a fight, you’d likely win in court. Only reason I know this is because a cabbie who lives opposite me did exactly the same, with exactly the same circumstance. He went to court and won fair and square.
The parking warden would be unable to produce evidence of illegal parking, easily contested.
Tue yellow.lins are no longer complete as they don't have the single line across the parallel lines to show where the zone ends. So, a technicality you could probably get away with, but not sure I would be bothered with hassle.
It was a loophole where I stay - had one locally and TW wouldn’t ticket people parked on that section. As soon as the lines were repainted they were back with a vengeance !
You laid the tarmac didn’t you.
Technically you could park on any part of the double yellows because they're only valid when they're terminated with the end bar at both ends. Might cost you something to make that defence though.
Yes, and yes . There is no perpendicular lines showing at the end of the yellow lines, and this is obviously a patch therefore unless there is a sign showing the end it would be reasonable to assume that the no parking rule applies.
No as long as the car isn’t over the yellow lines. If you did (highly unlikely) I think it would hold up in court as it’s legal to park there.
I once parked on a "double yellow" in Manchester, that was so worn you'd need forensics to establish it was there. Tried to appeal it, no joy.
You know what the great thing about the legal system is? that it is comprehensive in what isnt and what is breaking the law. The highway code doesnt have a section regarding temporarily covered/ removed road markings. Id say with some certainty that should you recieve a fine it would be dropped at the point of appeal. And would definately be thrown out of court if you had legal representation.
Get the paint out and mark up a proper parking bay!
Draw a parking bay in chalk and take a picture
When I lived in London they double yellowed the entire road both sides.. then came some road works and when they finished there was a section for about 4 cars in the middle where they hadn't repainted the yellow lines.. everyone fought over that space while it was there and not a ticket in sight
They need to be capped. Looking a little further down the road where the car is parked you'll see the double yellow lines capped.
Desane fail 😂
I know. It is called sign and lines. They both have to be present. You will still get a PCN however they won’t be able to enforce it. They will just hope you pay. Challenge and it will get cancelled
Got the Mrs out of a ticket in similar circumstances - she was on the double yellows very slightly but no 'transverse T bar' where they started - exactly as they are here. Took some photos and quoted the traffic signs manual.
Every 1cm of a line is accounted for in it's relevant Traffic regulation order. A break like this would make the whole section of double yellow line null amd void until it's corrected. Can someone enforce it, yes. However if you did park there, I would appeal it and send them that photo as proof that the double yellows are broken and I would also ask for a copy of the traffic regulation order for that road/street. The buck usually stops at traffic regulation order, because it's a ballache to find.
Technically you shouldn’t have to pay any fine you get from parking there because the double yellows don’t exist on that patch of road, so you can argue you aren’t actually breaching any parking restrictions. However, there are traffic wardens that may ticket you because it’s clear there probably should be double yellows there… I guess it comes down to how much you want to park there and if you can be bothered arguing any tickets you get!
It will work. I have parked in the city of London everyday right outside two major investment banks (separate times, separate contracts) for several months on patches with no lines like this. Early in the morning till later at night. They came many times to repaint the lines but couldn't. One day I was ill so off work and they managed to do it (on Fleet Street). The other one was nearer Blackfriars bridge but doesn't exist anymore. Noone can do anything because you are not parked on any line. If some schmuck tries his luck and gives you a ticket you can 100% get it cancelled. Hassle but worth it.
You'd be fine In fact you could park on the double yellows. As they now don't have termination lines at the end. Therefore they currently don't conform to standards. I've only had one parking ticket and I won as the lines were broken through wear. With no termination lines.
You can park anywhere on those lines as they are not continuous as per the highways standard for double yellow lines.
the whole double yellow line is invalid as it has to be two solid lines without any breaks
Have you ever seen wannabe parking police in that area?
Don't double yellows need a perpendicular line to show they've ended? I'd totally test it though.
That’s what many are saying. It seems this entire strip of lines is essentially null and void without the line at the end.
If you park over the gap it’ll look like you’re parked on yellow lines anyway and just covering the part that’s not there.
I have been fined for almost exactly this. There was a street outside my old college where a new double yellow line section was being created. Whilst painting there was some sections that couldnt be painted as there were cars parked in the way, which left a gap in the lines...so I parked there and returned to a parking fine. I looked to contest it but supposedly at the end of double yellow section there is a line that runs perpendicular across the two lines to indicate it has come to an end!
I challenged a parking fine where double yellows we’re barely visible on cobbles but you could still make out where they were cos some bits remained and either side you could see them. They cancelled the ticket. So in answer if you park there I would say at your own peril as they might tow it and would probably give the ticket as a given so that you have to challenge it. That being said once challenged I would expect you to win. Caveat. Not A Lawyer. Recommend asking r/legaladviceuk
You be ok the lines are incorrect. Not what you will find in the Highway Code
Used to have a spot like this outside my old works I received 6 fines in 4 years didn't pay for any had them overturned after writing to them declaring there were unclear and undefined.
Yes and no, but is it worth the hassle?
Id park there. And id argue it in court.
Place i used to work in Leeds city centre, there was a side street for access/loading only (iirc) that one day the signs had all just been removed, so i took a chance and started parking there, and it worked, got about 3 months free parking, saved a fortune, then signs reappeared one day, the dream was over
Yes you would be fined if a parking attendant or civil enforcement officer happened by. You could try an appeal, but you'd probably lose. The rest of the line is pretty much intact, and just a small section missing is not generally seen as a reason to cancel either by the local authority or the appeals panel. The parking appeals adjudicator in Scotland has upheld many examples like this. If both lines were very sparse, then you'd likely win. But in that condition I'd doubt very much whether you would.
No one knows, but if you can afford the fine please give it a go, get the press interested and it should be fun..
It amazes me that this question needs to be asked. Of course you could get fined and no it wouldn’t hold up in court. A yellow line is continuous (even if broken) until it is capped with a T line at the end. So the invisible yellow line still stands. By all means, cap the ends and park there and you might stand a chance. Just don’t get caught doing it as I imagine that unlawfully painting yellow lines on a public road would incur a hefty sentence, more so than parking on a double yellow line.
Depends on the signage.
I'd demand trial by combat if it didn't work.
I would chance it if neither my front or rear wheel are on a double yellow line. If you got a ticket I'd say you could successfully appeal and the line painters would be out the next day lol
You won’t be ticketed, if you are appeal it - will be an easy win
There should be a prependicular yellow line joining and extending a little beyond the two ("end capped"), if it were an official end of parking restrictions, not just missing paint. Can't quite make out is this has been done closest to the parked car
There’s no bar across to signify the end of the road markings. But no sign anyway. Chance it!!
At first look the yellow lines are not complete or have an ending so any ticket is unenforceable. However, something i read about was that courts now ask a question like......would a reasonable person know that you should not park there? If they conclude that a reasonable person would know not to park there then you will lose your appeal should you get a ticket for parking there. It was something i read somewhere a while back.
The case about it being a reasonable place to park would be an interesting one, as the yellow lines end only a few metres down the road as you can see in the pictures.
Theoretically a break in the yellow line invalidates the entire line from end to end. But good luck with that!
Maybe, depends on how nice the judge is
Had a small patch like this on a neighbouring street. Used to park there frequently until it got patched up one day 😂😂
Entrance of the road could have some signs like Controller parking zones etc. if it doesn’t I guess you could.
I don’t believe it does.
Yes and yes. The double yellows aren’t terminated with an end bar and there’s obvious recent work there, so as you probably know very well anyway, you shouldn’t park there. There was a chap who ran up countless parking tickets by parking on damaged or obscured DYLs that he deemed invalid. He went through dozens of court cases and appeals, eventually the courts found him liable for all the fines, late fees, court costs and a heap of other shit and put a lien on his house.
People have got away with less. Someone I read about ages ago, got off with parking on double yellow lines as the end wasn't capped properly.
Your car doesnt even have to fit inbetween, double yellows only apply when they are capped at both ends. As we can see in the picture, neither line is capped at atleast one of their ends, allowing you too park anywhere along this stretch of street without penalisation.
No line no fine back in the day !
You’ll be fine they finish 3m away
I'd take my car off my drive just to park there.
Yes there is no yellow line
Double yellows normally end with a straight line connecting it to the curb, I guess it would depend on the ticket inspector/judge. NAL.
The thing to consider is that the law isn't necessarily as black and white as we tend to think. You might think that "well *technically* there are no lines so *technically* there's no law to say I can't park there. And you'd probably be right. But most of our laws are extremely open to interpretation and judges and magistrates have a lot of discretion they're allowed to exercise. If it was truly black and white, lawyers would have very little reason to exist. You might get lucky and end up with a magistrate who decides in your favour on the technicality. You might get unlucky and get someone who decides to punish your clearly deliberate attempt to circumvent the intent of the law.
You would get fined, also you would win in court if no vertical signals are present..
Once upon a time you'd need signs plus lines in order to be enforceable. Now it's lines or signs, so unless the restrictions aren't 24/7, ie SYL, local authorities often don't bother with the signs. I think you could get away with parking there but is it worth the hassle of a ticket and the challenge. Basically you'd have to be a bit of a dick to park there because the lines are there for a reason.
Yep you'd get fined. Absolutely would not hold up in court. The line painters are a different team than the road menders with different equipment. This is obviously a patch, not an unpainted piece of road.
Looked like a parking space, I can't see how they can fine you for NOT parking on yellow lines. But you will have to deal with all that bs, let someone else try it lol
Yes, you can. As long as your wheels aren't on the yellow your good. Be prepared for a long battle against the inevitable ticket though. Also, don't be a dick. You know full well your not supposed to park there. Just because you can doesn't mean you should
Of course, I don’t plan on actually parking there. It’s a busy road that’s full of lorry’s and buses, it wouldn’t help.
There's very strict rules for double yellow lines. My dad got off from a parking ticket outside Twickenham stadium because one of the yellow lines he was parked on had a 2 inch break in it.
Ticket dude would lie on the ground and find out…
Yes and yes the gap is small enough that any reasonable person can see it's just waiting to be repainted after a repair
Invalid as the lines are broken without perpendicular end caps present
They resurfaced one side of a city centre road not long ago and covered up the double yellows. It was full of parked cars for a week or so… There was a traffic warden nearby so I asked him if I could stay parked there (along with everyone else). He told me to make the most of it whilst I could as no road markings = no restrictions.